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meetingologyMeeting started Thu Feb  2 15:00:06 2012 UTC.  The chair is ogra_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.15:00
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired15:00
ogra_[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2012/2012020215:00
* davidm waves at ogra_ 15:00
ogra_hmm, wh doesnt the bot take my link ...15:00
ogra_everyone here ?15:00
* ogra_ sees them roll in :)15:01
janimoI initially logged in to ubuntu-meeting on another server finding the room empty15:01
ogra_hey GrueMaster15:01
* GrueMaster waves15:02
ogra_so lets get rolling ... mind you my Y key is apparently broken, dont laugh if i type weird things :)15:02
davidmogra_, do you need to use the # and not[?15:02
ogra_#link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2012/2012020215:02
ogra_nope :)15:02
ogra_not that important15:02
ogra_so NCommander isnt around, i'll run the meeting ....15:03
ogra_Standing Items ...15:03
* ogra_ waits for GrueMaster running gag ...15:03
GrueMastersorry, I was busy testing all the images and gaging on my coffee.15:04
ogra_we're pretty well under tthe trend line ! (if it would be angled correctly)15:04
ogra_and ppisati apparently found a fix for the blocker of the "no initrd" spec ... he's my hero of the week !15:05
ppisatiogra_: wait until you try it out... :)15:05
ogra_indeed :)15:05
infinityOf course, unblocking it creates work. ;)15:05
ogra_mahmoh seems pretty behind (25 WIs, only 2 done) shoudl we ask him if he needs help ?15:06
GrueMasterI ask every week.15:06
ogra_(likely due to NCommander assigning the world to him)15:06
ogra_nothing else seems to stick out badly atm ...15:07
ogra_moving on ....15:07
ogra_[topic] == ARM Server Status (NCommander) ==15:07
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: == ARM Server Status (NCommander) ==
ogra_anyone here who can report about that ?15:07
* ogra_ can say that we have approval to get the unsupported kernel to main to fix our d-i issues 15:08
GrueMasterImage automation is currently stuck due to no initrd generated during install.15:08
ogra_but we dont have a kernel package yet15:08
GrueMasterNot an official kernel, no.15:08
ppisatino initrd generated during install?15:09
ogra_f-k-i issue15:09
infinityIf we have approval to get it in main, we can tidy up dannf's and JFDI.15:09
GrueMasterppisati: Only on the server platform.15:09
ogra_infinity, feel free if you dont have anything else to do ...15:09
GrueMasterNot an f-k-i issue.  I have tested it, it does the right thing.15:09
infinityogra_: I have lots else to do, but this is important enough to make time.15:09
ogra_cooloney will do it otherwise ... once he returns from new year drinking :)15:09
ogra_i know its on his TODO15:10
infinityogra_: Since getting the kernel in will cascade into massaging d-i and other bits.15:10
ogra_GrueMaster, well, then kernel package postinst ... one for these things :)15:10
GrueMasterNCommander had a test kernel working based on 3.0 with a minimized patch.  Whittled down the 500k lines to ~15k.15:10
* ahs3 pokes dannf on another channel...and volunteers his time to help with the kernel :)...15:10
infinityahs3: That works too.15:11
ogra_davidm, do you know when cooloney returns ? does it make sense to have infinity look at the kernel ?15:11
ogra_ah, k15:11
infinityIf dannf can tidy up a kernel package, I'll do the d-i bits.15:11
infinityAnd we'll be golden.15:11
ogra_i guess any preparation work cooloney can get is fine15:11
ahs3infinity: excellent15:11
davidmNext mondya15:11
infinityAnd cooloney can worry about 3.2, which is what he should be doing. :P15:12
ogra_[action] dannf to tidy up a kernel package15:12
meetingologyACTION: dannf to tidy up a kernel package15:12
ogra_[action] infinity to pull said kernel package into d-i15:12
meetingologyACTION: infinity to pull said kernel package into d-i15:12
infinityWaste of his time to package old kernels anyway.15:12
ogra_ok, anything else ?15:12
ogra_movinmg on then15:13
ogra_[topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)15:13
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
ppisatinothing exciting: omap4 1405.7 is finally out15:13
ppisatiand there's a new round of SRUs15:14
GrueMasterYea, good timing on that.  :P15:14
ppisatiaprt from that, yesterday i palyed with UUID (aand with GPT + UUID it works)15:14
ppisatiand now i've some stuff in the queue for audio (both omap3 and omap4)15:14
ppisatithat's all from me15:15
ogra_well, TI says there are fixes in the new tree15:15
ogra_for omap4 at least15:15
ppisatiogra_: right, i'll have to try them15:15
infinityI need to stop getting distracted from other work and test jcrigby's mx5 kernels.15:15
ppisatibtw, audio on beagle has never worked, right?15:15
GrueMasterNot since the kernel was from main.15:15
ogra_infinity, doesnt janimo also have the mx5 ?15:16
ppisatiGrueMaster: k15:16
infinityogra_: We all do, don't we?15:16
ogra_janimo, could you take over that test ?15:16
infinityjanimo: If you have time... What he said.15:16
ogra_infinity, i dont15:16
GrueMasterActually, I should test the mx5 kernel, as I have both old & new platforms.15:16
* ogra_ still recovers from babbages ... still needs another CPU iteration before i can touchj FSL HW again ;)15:17
janimoI can run the mx5 tests sure15:17
infinityGrueMaster: You were busy alphaing, which was why I didn't ask earlier.  ;)15:17
janimoit just seemed everyone was already on the new mx5 kernels :)15:17
ogra_[action] janimo or GrueMaster to test the mx5 kernel from jcrigby15:17
meetingologyACTION: janimo or GrueMaster to test the mx5 kernel from jcrigby15:17
GrueMasterWhich reminds me, A2 will not run on the new mx53 Quickstart board (Rev R).15:17
infinityjanimo: Err, they were?15:18
ogra_anthing else ?15:18
* ogra_ counts to three15:18
janimoinfinity, well you and GrueMaster have been talking about the ppa since over a week IIRC15:18
ogra_moving on ...15:18
ogra_[topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)15:18
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
GrueMasterTalk is easy.  :P15:18
janimoGrueMaster, mine is rev F so hopefully is still fine. It was last week anyway15:18
ogra_anyone ?15:19
janimothe only one I tried fixing is the qtwebkit15:19
* ogra_ didnt look at ftbfs at all this week15:19
infinitygcl and acl2 got off the FTBFS list this week.  A couple other minor bits and bobs.15:19
janimobut has the same memory exhausted error on my panda as in the buildd15:19
ogra_yay even15:19
infinityI need to look more deeply into the "mmap" issue, which has nothing at all to do with kernel bugs. :P15:19
janimowith 8G of swap even15:19
ogra_use 16 :P15:20
infinityI'm fairly sure binutils is leaking.15:20
ppisatiwell, if your process need more than 3GB, you are screwed15:20
infinityMore swap won't help.15:20
ppisatiyou can add as much swap as you want, but it's still 32bits15:20
* ogra_ wasnt serious15:20
ppisatiand with the 3/1 split15:20
ppisati3GB is for userspace15:20
infinityAnyhow, powerpc is a 2/2 split, and it doesn't fail in the same places.15:20
infinitybinutils is pretty clearly doing something Very Bad on ARM.15:21
infinity(ppc32 having a 2/2 split is a bug, mind you, which I should file...)15:21
GrueMasterSomeone also should look at bug 925246.  Only fails (repeatedly) on armhf panda.15:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 925246 in kde-workspace (Ubuntu) "ksysguardd is causing a kernel oops on armhf only" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92524615:21
ogra_so its all doko's fault anyway15:21
ppisatiinfinity: wait15:21
ppisatiinfinity: did you have the same bug with 1405 too?15:21
infinityppisati: 3.2.0-1405-omap4 <-- Still exists on that kernel.15:22
ppisatiinfinity: ok15:22
infinityppisati: Err, by "bug", we mean binutils exhausting RAM.  The 2/2 -> 3/1 thing is fixed.15:22
ppisatiinfinity: i see15:22
infinitySo, binutils just eats 3G instead of 2G now. :P15:23
infinityNot really progress.15:23
ppisatihungry toolchain :)15:23
infinityAnyhow.  Needs more investigation and round tuits.15:23
infinityI might end up delaying other things I'm doing to just make it happen, since it's now causing failures in main.15:24
ppisatiinfinity: is there a way to reproduce it?15:24
infinityppisati: Build qtwebkit-source or haskell-src-exts.15:24
infinityppisati: Wait patiently.15:24
ppisatiinfinity: how long does it take?15:24
ogra_reall patiently15:24
infinityppisati: And once you have a failed tree, you can just re-run the last line over and over. :P15:24
janimoinfinity, is this a bug acked by Linaro too?15:25
infinityppisati: It takes ~4h to fail the first time, after that, it's maybe 10m to fail the link over and over?15:25
janimoand the last line failing takes an hour or more IIRC :)15:25
ogra_we can ask rsalveti when he's up :)15:25
infinityjanimo: Nah, it's nowhere near an hour, if you're swapping to disk like a sane person.15:25
janimoinfinity, USB external disk yes. I remember going away and finding Qt still linking after a loong time15:26
janimowill time it, I stil have the tree around I think15:26
* infinity times it right now.15:26
infinityMoving on?15:27
ogra_yep, wanted to wait until you guys are done :)15:27
infinityjanimo: Oh, and no, I haven't gotten around to filing a bug and involving Linaro, because "binutils sucks" is more of a guess than something I've confirmed, so far.15:27
janimoah ok15:28
ogra_[topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)15:28
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
infinityThis seems familiar.15:28
ogra_[topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)15:28
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
ogra_nothing to report, we're ready for A215:29
ogra_anyone ... anything ?15:29
ogra_oh, one thing15:29
GrueMasterAll images tested and no major show stoppers.15:29
ogra_doesn anyone know who enabled d-i server images ?15:29
infinityLooking at /etc/default-arches, they've been enabled for ages.15:29
ogra_we seem to have built normal alternate server dailies for a while15:30
infinityAnd no one noticed.15:30
infinityOr, people noticed, but no one cared. :P15:30
ogra_yeah ...15:30
GrueMasterI downloaded one, will look at it later today.15:30
infinityI think it's come up before, and we kept forgetting to turn them off.15:30
janimodisable them and start building omap4 live images in the same time slot :D15:30
infinityjanimo: Uhh.15:30
infinityjanimo: They build in about 3 minutes.15:30
ogra_well, once the new kernel is around we want them, n o ?15:30
infinityjanimo: Not really the same "time slot". ;)15:31
janimowell, when I mean time slot, I mean ..... instead :D15:31
GrueMasterWe will want them for the actual server platforms, yes.15:31
ogra_iirc the target image for that kernel is a server alternate15:31
ogra_right, so lets just keep them running15:31
* rsalveti waves15:31
ogra_its not that its a big waste15:31
infinityogra_: Yeah, we can scrub default-arches and build for just that subarch.15:31
rsalvetisorry, 2 meetings at the same time :-)15:31
ogra_rsalveti, take your time, ou're not up yet :)15:32
ogra_anything else about images ?15:32
* ogra_ moves on then 15:32
GrueMasterOn other images, I propose turning off armel on some platforms (omap).15:32
ogra_that should wait until after FF15:32
ogra_since we havent actually made the decision yet15:33
ogra_davidm, opinions ?15:33
davidmwait until after FF15:33
ogra_moving on15:34
davidmwe need to evaluate el vs hf and then shutdown images in the one we are not going to use15:34
ogra_right, thats what i thought15:34
ogra_though tobin is drowning in images atm15:34
davidmfrom where I'm sitting hf is looking better and better every day15:34
ogra_i also think hf it is :)15:35
davidmunderstood, only another week15:35
ogra_[topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)15:35
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)
GrueMasterLots of milestone testing this week.  All images on all platforms tested.  Minor bugs found, some more annoyances than anything.15:36
infinity(FF is in two weeks, BTW, not one..)15:36
GrueMasterNo show stopper bugs.15:36
GrueMasterAlso started testing SRU kernel updates (excellent timing).15:36
ogra_FF is my b-day :)15:36
* ogra_ will tr to get the oem-config preseeding fixed around FF btw15:37
* GrueMaster can't imagine any of ogra_'s features freezing, but it is cold in the EU.15:37
ogra_i have planned a timeslot for it15:37
ogra_yeah, -10 °C....15:37
ogra_not even the cats want to go out15:38
GrueMasterGood.  That will greatly help automate smoke testing images.15:38
ogra_anything else apart the weather ?15:38
* ogra_ moves on ...15:38
ogra_[topic] Linaro Updates (rsalveti)15:38
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro Updates (rsalveti)
* rsalveti waves again :-)15:39
rsalvetiour planning for this cycle15:39
rsalvetimostly trying to get things in place, and working on improving the lava usage15:39
rsalvetifor unity, also making sure it's always working15:39
rsalvetiby enabling it by default at our images15:39
ogra_how about the compiz bits ?15:39
rsalvetithat still something we need to sort out next week15:40
ogra_we would like them in the archive15:40
rsalvetiat linaro connect15:40
infinityrsalveti: Any interest in looking at the binutils memory exhaustion thing? ;)15:40
rsalvetiwho is going to connect?15:40
rsalvetiinfinity: bug? :-)15:40
infinityDavid and I, I believe.15:40
ogra_infinity, oh, you go !15:40
infinityrsalveti: Unfiled so far, was investigating.15:40
ogra_awesome !15:40
infinityrsalveti: But it's the one people were calling a kernel "mmap" bug until we fixed the kernel and it wasn't. :P15:40
rsalvetiinfinity: please check our sessions at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/linaro-ubuntu?searchtext=linaro-platforms-q11215:41
rsalvetigot it :-)15:41
ogra_is linaro in any way intrested in LibO ?15:41
ogra_seems NCommander is out for another few days and will then be swamped in ubuntu-server15:41
infinityrsalveti: Steve and markos already subscribed me to a fair few things, I think, but I'll poke.15:41
ogra_and we would like to get it fixed15:41
infinityogra_: Does NCommander have a working tree he can hand off to someone else?15:42
janimoogra_, if NCommander is swamped I can continue with LibO15:42
ogra_infinity, i have *no* clue at all15:42
ogra_janimo, that would surely help !15:42
ogra_[action] janimo to look into LibO15:42
meetingologyACTION: janimo to look into LibO15:42
davidmjanimo, yes please grab Lib015:42
rsalvetigreat :-)15:42
GrueMasterI have his panda he was using to build LibO on.15:43
rsalvetiwe can try to have a look at that15:43
rsalvetiit's important for armhf anyway15:43
GrueMasterjanimo: I'll ping you after the meeting with the ipv6 info.15:43
janimoGrueMaster, I'll ping you once I am at a point that I need his changes, thanks15:43
rsalvetithat's all from my side15:43
janimoGrueMaster, ok15:43
ogra_its still a lot time until release... but would be good to finally fix it15:43
rsalvetisorry, also at another meeting at the phone15:43
* ogra_ moves on 15:43
ogra_[topic] AOB15:43
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
infinityYeah, plenty of time to release, but I want our armel/armhf decision at feature freeze to be as informed as it can be.15:43
ogra_anyone ?15:44
ogra_anything ?15:44
ogra_seems not ...15:44
ogra_going once15:45
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Feb  2 15:45:22 2012 UTC.15:45
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-02-15.00.moin.txt15:45
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sabdflhello all17:01
akgranerhey sabdfl17:02
meetingologyMeeting started Thu Feb  2 17:04:03 2012 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.17:04
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired17:04
dholbachso, I just had a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda17:04
dholbachand it seems we have a chat with the DMB today :)17:04
dholbachbdrung, cody-somerville, Laney, micahg, tumbleweed, stgraber: anyone of you around?17:05
tumbleweeddholbach: hi17:05
LaneyOH that is TODAY!17:05
* tumbleweed wa just about to run off :P17:05
dholbach#topic Meeting the Developer Membership Board17:05
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Meeting the Developer Membership Board
dholbachhow are all of you doing?17:05
tumbleweedtoday just took a bad turn, personally, an hour ago, but I've been typing hard at a UDW session for an hour, so the adrenaline is there :P17:06
* dholbach hugs tumbleweed :)17:06
tumbleweeddmb is looking good, I think17:06
dholbachhow do you generally feel is the DMB doing?17:06
dholbachalways on top of things? no backlog building up?17:07
LaneyI think we get by pretty well these days17:07
Laneywe haven't missed a meeting in ages17:07
* stgraber waves17:07
dholbachI was also under the impression that meetings are now quite regularly - which is great17:08
* Iowan is FC rep - si 2b late17:08
tumbleweedwe've also been talking about things to do to improve the application process17:09
tumbleweedmaybe some self-test questions to let you know if you're ready, but nothing much happening theree atm...17:09
czajkowskitumbleweed: great to hear17:09
dholbachtumbleweed, so new applicants have a better idea if they should apply or not?17:09
tumbleweeddholbach: yeah, and also so they know what we expect all ubuntu developers to do17:10
tumbleweed(i.e. subscribe to ubuntu-devel-announce, understand freezes)17:10
czajkowskitumbleweed: do you feel the number of DMB members is enough ?17:10
dholbachthat might indeed work17:10
sabdfltumbleweed, aching wrists?17:11
tumbleweedczajkowski: we've been quorate for the last few months, so yes17:11
tumbleweedalthough I did come in as a standin for a missing persia :/17:11
dholbachthe developer advisory team I set up with huats recently started mailing people who had done a lot of great work to offer a bit of support - if we can get any feedback, we could share it with you17:11
czajkowskitumbleweed: great to hear, that is sometimes an issue for boards. glad the dmb is ok17:11
YokoZartumbleweed: Is there anyone (or a lot of anyone)'s that you feel should have been developers long ago but aren't now for some reason?17:11
tumbleweedsabdfl: hah, actually a death in the family, but nm that right now :)17:11
dholbachsorry to hear that :-(17:12
tumbleweedYokoZar: hopefully most developers tell people when they should apply17:12
tumbleweedwe had to push jtaylor for months :P17:12
* YokoZar recalls it was debian's developer-membership rigidity that drew him to Ubuntu to begin with, whereas at Ubuntu he was directly asked to join...17:13
dholbachyes, I hope the d-a-t can help identify cases like that a bit earlier going forward :)17:13
tumbleweedYokoZar: yeah, ubuntu's open community was a big reason I got drawn in17:13
tumbleweed(I hardly even run it on any machines...)17:13
dholbachhow much of your work do you feel is directly related to dealing with applications? is there many other things which need discussion or organisation as well?17:14
YokoZartumbleweed: That interests me greatly :)  I'm wondering if the next me is out there and if we're doing everything we can to find him and tell him "Hey, this is great, not only will I sponsor your packages but I want you to go through this super easy process and upload them yourself."17:14
tumbleweeddholbach: hrm, maybe 5-15 mins of each meeting17:15
LaneyI would hope that Debian sponsors are encouraging people to go through NM when they are ready too. Although granted it is a lot more in depth.17:15
tumbleweedand then there is out-of-meeting stuff, micahg has been doing lots of packageset team structure cleanup17:16
LaneyAlso we should discuss whether Ubuntu Contributing Developer is worthwhile.17:16
micahgLaney: did you mean here or in general?17:16
dholbachLaney, as far as I recall a lot of RMBs were very happy that there was a board out there which could review development contributions and make a better informed decision about it17:17
Laneythe CC are probably interested in it.17:17
micahgwell, I think it's worthwhile, but should be used sparingly for those who just need to keep the safety net17:17
Laneyyeah, well the problem is we hardly ever get applicants from it and people say that they find it confusing17:18
tumbleweedyes, it probably does sit as an unecessary extra step for many people17:18
* tumbleweed encourages people to bypass it when I think they are ready17:18
micahgit shouldn't be a step for most people, maybe I can give editing the wiki a shot to make that more clear17:18
dholbachdo you get many applicants for membership?17:19
LaneyI don't get the impression that new developers are bothered about it17:19
tumbleweedit's been quiet recently17:19
Laneynot that we get many new MOTU at all though17:19
dholbachI guess there's still a few motu work items from a blueprint :)17:20
dholbachwhich wouldn't instantly solve the problem.... but probably invite some folks again17:20
tumbleweedyeah, always need more motu17:20
micahgwell, 2 in the last 2 months with another most likely after precise releases17:20
dholbachis there anything you feel which should be really fixed in the DMB? you all seem to be generally quite happy with how the board is running17:21
czajkowskiAlso is there anything the CC can help the DMB with ?17:21
Laneystill, I think I have come to the opinion that it's probably not worth having UCD as a Separate Thing17:21
* tumbleweed had entirely forgotten that this meeting was coming so, nothing on my mind17:22
YokoZarmicahg: Regarding clarifying the wiki, thank you muchly17:22
micahgLaney: I don't think people should be forced to get upload rights, if someone wants to help, but without getting upload rights, we should be able to recognize that17:23
Laneywhen has that ever happened?17:23
tumbleweedon the other side of the coin, the membership requirements can make it harder for us to give PPU17:24
dholbachLaney, maybe it'd be an idea to write a blog post explaining what UCD was designed to be and then ask for comments from everyone to get an idea of how many folks would like to go through the process - maybe it's not sufficiently advertised or explained - or maybe there's no interested in it at all17:24
Laneyit creates a lot of confusion for a theoretical possibility that could be handled in some other way (RMBs)17:24
LaneyI've posted to -devel about it before and didn't really see anyone who strongly cares about it17:24
micahgwell, I'm going to try to clear up the confusion on the wiki17:24
Laneyif we really want it just say "We can also award membership without upload rights if you meet the [[general guidelines]]"17:25
Laney(This is called being a Contributing Developer).17:25
Laneyor something.17:25
dholbachyeah, that sounds reasonable17:26
tumbleweedde-emphisising it should remove most of the issues there17:26
Laneyright, bury it17:26
dholbachanything else on your list of pressing concerns? :)17:26
Laneyif this person ever comes along then someone can tell them that the possibility exists17:27
Laneywell, just the continued absence of persia, but that's not just us :'(17:27
tumbleweedI seem to recall someone where PPU was clearly grantable, but the person hadn't done much to deserve membership, yet17:27
tumbleweedbut I can't remember offhand17:27
Laneynot sure anyone is unhappy with upload rights implying membership in all cases, even when we perhaps wouldn't grant membership separately17:28
Laneyi'm quite relaxed about that tbh17:28
YokoZarYeah that seems reasonable17:29
tumbleweedyeah, it's not a big issue17:29
dholbachI didn't run into cases where it would have concerned me17:29
Laneythe CC is aware that all developers are added to ~ubuntu-dev, and that that is in ~ubuntumembers17:29
dholbachusually there's quite a bit of work involved into understanding the process, learning about all the bits involved, where work is happening, but you can't just see it yet17:29
dholbachLaney, I am :)17:29
Laneyi am glad that this advisory team effort is happening17:29
Laneyit felt like a bit of an expansion too far to expect the dmb to be responsible for recruitment as well as assessment17:30
dholbachyes, Christophe and I are going to announce it some time next week and hopefully get a few new contributors to help us out17:30
dholbachI agree17:30
dholbachany more questions from the CC?17:30
dholbachor anything from the DMB members where CC members could help with?17:31
tumbleweednope, pub quiz time for me!17:31
micahgno, I think in the past when we've needed the CC, they've been responsive17:31
dholbachthe only thing on my list is: take a look at the motu blueprint again :)17:32
dholbachbut that's unrelated to the general DMB + CC meet-up17:34
dholbachczajkowski, beuno, Gwaihir, YokoZar, pleia2, akgraner: any more questions from you?17:34
pleia2no, thanks for coming :)17:34
beunonope, all sounds great17:35
akgranernone from me - thanks for all the information17:35
YokoZarThanks for coming :)17:35
Gwaihirnope, all looks good17:35
czajkowskino thank it's been really intersting to leanr what ye folks do17:35
dholbachthanks a lot - and thanks for doing a great job on the DMB!17:35
dholbachas far as I can see there's nothing else on the Agenda17:36
dholbach#topic Other business?17:36
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Other business?
akgranerTeams page clean-up and CoC 2.017:36
dholbachgood points17:37
dholbach#topic Teams page17:37
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Teams page
pleia2#link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams17:37
dholbachakgraner, want to give an update?17:37
akgranersure  - so the link pleia2 just gave is out of date17:37
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akgranerso I started a drafts page #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/draft/Teams17:38
akgranerI added many of the Canonical lead teams based on the feedback from UDS about people wanting to know how to get in contact with various teams and who lead those teams17:39
YokoZarOh, I had a quick update ~ voting software to discuss as well17:39
akgranerI also found that reporter, approved and approved date didn't mean much to people so I am changing that as well17:39
akgranerI should have it finished by Saturday for everyone to review and if approved we can change it out and start recommending it again17:40
dholbachmaybe a call for review via blog?17:40
dholbachso folks who never updated their team record can just go ahead and do it?17:41
akgranerdholbach, I was going to so that once I had the page cleaned up17:41
dholbachah, cool17:41
dholbachsounds good to me then17:41
pleia2long term, do we have a plan to maintain this?17:41
akgranerI think we should - someone has to take ownership of it17:42
dholbachpersonally I think it'd be good if the job wasn't tied to us specifically :)17:42
dholbachand teams would just go and update their date17:42
akgranerbut who then?17:42
dholbacheven if it would require us to do some annual poking17:42
akgranerdholbach, um that didn't work in the past17:42
Gwaihirjust an idea: isn't the IRC column redundant? Since there is no real information about what is the channel, maybe rely only on the team's page?17:43
akgranerthat's how it got this out of date - people add stuff and never go back and look at it17:43
akgranerit's meant to be a quick level over view17:43
akgranermaybe that's all they want what channel can this team be found in without going to the team page17:43
akgranerone click to find all the relative information is what I was thinkingg17:44
Gwaihiryep, but there is no real channel name, adding the channel name maybe?17:44
akgranerI haven't added any of the new column information those are just place holders right now17:44
Gwaihirgot it17:45
dholbachif there's people who don't mind looking after it every now and then, then that's great17:45
dholbachmaybe we should continue the discussion via mail?17:46
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akgranerfine with me17:46
dholbach#topic CoC 2.017:46
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: CoC 2.0
dholbachso, a few changes have been introduced in the ubuntu-codeofconduct branch recently and it was suggested to merge the leadership coc into the CoC17:47
dholbachto give it a bit more publicity17:47
dholbachAFAIK akgraner (was it you?) put up a google doc already17:47
akgranerso I added the LCoC and the CoC on one document  - I've made some changes to it - but others still need to take a look17:47
dholbachI could take an action to massage the changes into the branch as a merge proposal, so we can all take a look at it together again17:47
dholbachand then make the decision to get it into LP, the website and all the other places if we all agree17:48
akgranerit still reads like 2 separate documents17:48
akgranerand maybe that's ok  - we just need a better lead into the LCoC part of it - I changed a little of it to make it flow but it still needs some more work17:49
dholbachok, I'll take the action to mergeproposalify it, so we can review it together17:50
beunowhere is the doc?17:50
dholbachthere was a link in one of the emails17:50
dholbachI can dig it out and post an MP tomorrow17:50
akgranerthanks dholbach17:52
dholbachok, rocking17:52
dholbachmoving on17:52
dholbach#topic voting software17:52
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: voting software
dholbachYokoZar, your stage17:52
YokoZarSo, my volunteer who maybe might write us usable voting software messaged me the other day17:52
YokoZarHe envisions a bit of a larger project, but wanted to cover our use case, and wanted to know if something based on Google App Engine is ok17:52
YokoZarSince we already use an offsite service (CIVS) I don't think it's any worse17:53
* dholbach has no opinion17:53
dholbachsabdfl, do you have anything to say about the above?17:53
beunoyeah, it's not portable, which sucks a bit17:53
beunobut not worst, I agree17:53
YokoZarThere's an attempt at a free lower-featured app engine replacement we could run ourselves I think, and his software may work on that (he mentioned it)17:54
dholbachwould it present us with a CIVS-like service which is going to work with Launchpad Teams (OpenID teams support)?17:54
YokoZarThat was basically my only request, so presumably ;)17:55
dholbachif you need more opinions on the google app engine criterion, best just bring it up with the rest of the CC in an email17:56
dholbachso we can see if there's more opinions17:56
YokoZarYeah fair enough17:56
YokoZarOk that's that17:56
dholbachAnything else?17:56
dholbach#topic Administrativa17:57
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Administrativa
dholbachI guess we should decide on next chair, who does the wiki update and the like17:57
dholbachmaybe we should also fire up an etherpad and write the minutes together17:57
dholbachthat way we all get to go in 2-3 minutes :)17:57
dholbachYokoZar, beuno, akgraner, pleia2, Gwaihir: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/zCK129zmpU :)17:58
* akgraner looks17:58
akgranerdholbach, doesn't meetingology give you all the bits once the meeting ends?17:59
akgranerand you can just copy and paste?17:59
pleia2only if you diligently use #info for every important thing ;)17:59
akgranerok nm me :-)17:59
dholbachhum, I guess we better get using #info the next times then17:59
dholbachok, if we're done with the minutes, I'm happy to update the wiki - who's the next chair?18:01
akgranerI can't chair but I'll be happy to help with admin stuff once the meetings end18:01
dholbachok, let's find the chair next time - we always found somebody18:02
dholbachakgraner, I'll update the team report - can you do the next meeting time and everything?18:02
akgranersure can18:02
dholbachthanks everyone!18:02
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Feb  2 18:03:00 2012 UTC.18:03
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-02-17.04.moin.txt18:03
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