[00:29] <ScottL> umm, i'm not seeing any images linked to the test cases :(
[00:31] <charlie-tca> I think they are still trying to figure out why, but you can grab them direct from http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/current/
[00:31] <charlie-tca> That was brought up in -release already, and stgraber was trying to figure what to do with it.
[00:32] <ScottL> charlie-tca, that's what i did earlier (get from cdimage), i mainly wanted to make sure it had been noticed already
[00:32] <ScottL> charlie-tca, thank you :)
[00:32] <ScottL> now to burn and test
[00:32] <charlie-tca> you are welcome. Most of the testers left already, I still have about 6 hours to run, if I am lucky
[00:33] <charlie-tca> (and, no, it ain't gonna happen tonight) :)
[00:38] <ScottL> charlie-tca, just in case i didn't do this already...thank you for your help at UDS :)
[00:38] <charlie-tca> You are most welcome. It is always a learning process for me. 
[00:38] <charlie-tca> Did you apply for UDS-Q yet? 
[00:50] <ScottL> charlie-tca, i want to talk to my wife first, and i'm waiting until she feel either indebted to me or generally in a good mood ;)
[00:51] <charlie-tca> heh, That works too
[01:00] <astraljava> ScottL: Yes, nusakan was having some problems finding our images. stgraber pinged others on that, cause had no privileges or something. Dunno what's the status now.
[01:00] <Len_1204> Ok, booted in 1204... I was able to install with no network connect.
[01:01] <Len_1204> Both install and try with net connect crash installer.
[01:02] <ScottL> Len_1204, please be sure to report on the tracker, without completed (even with broken installs) tests the images risk not being released for further testing
[01:02] <Len_1204> this bug is from last october. It fails to download the flash loader.
[01:02] <Len_1204> apport did report it and said it was a duplicate.
[01:02] <Len_1204> Thats how I know anything about it.
[01:03] <ScottL> Len_1204, right, but make sure you mark your test in the qa-tracker, please
[01:04] <ScottL> Len_1204, also, at some point in the near future i would like to pick your brain about why you are helping with ubuntu studio
[01:04] <ScottL> Len_1204, like what keeps you interested, involved, coming back, etc
[01:04] <ScottL> i would really like to find a way to interests others into helping and staying around
[01:04] <Len_1204> I will report the problem I had the first time though. with consoles sending the installer hung. And I will do the qa too.
[01:05] <Len_1204> I'm not sure really. Time of year is part of it. Not much outside stuff to do. May not see me for 12.10 ;-)
[01:06] <Len_1204> This is the first project (with collaboration) I have been involved in.
[01:07] <Len_1204> I am still learning a lot.
[01:08] <Len_1204> ScottL: I wanted to report that it is possible to install here so that others can test more than just that the installer crashes.
[01:10] <Len_1204> audio:x:29:pulse,test
[01:10] <Len_1204> test@ustudio1204:~$ ls /etc/security/limits.d/
[01:10] <Len_1204> audio.conf.disabled
[01:12] <Len_1204> OK, QA time, C-ja
[01:18] <astraljava> I don't know that command in emacs. Wonder what it does.
[01:27] <len-nb> Help... QA. I am guessing... but not sure all bugs need to be numbers and not descriptions?
[01:30] <astraljava> len-nb: Yep, numbers.
[01:31] <len-nb> The instructions are not very clear.
[01:32] <len-nb> Gotta find all the bugs and make some too.
[01:32] <astraljava> You can file a bug about that. :)
[01:33] <ScottL> i was hoping during next cycle we can develop better testing requirements
[01:34] <astraljava> ScottL: Yeah. jibel already mentioned that.
[01:34] <astraljava> ScottL: I might work up something for Alpha-3 even.
[01:46] <ScottL> astraljava, how is the ubiquity plugin going?
[01:47]  * falktx__ has a deja-vu
[01:48] <astraljava> Didn't get much done today, busy with A-2 stuff (and some totally unrelated)
[01:48] <astraljava> ScottL: But there shouldn't be much left, anymore. I can turn it on for review once the milestone hassle is over.
[01:49] <falktx__> ScottL: I have a personal request to make
[01:49] <ScottL> astraljava, that is absolutely incredible news!
[01:49] <ScottL> falktx__, hi :)
[01:49] <falktx__> ScottL: there are some svn packages in various PPAs (not just mine), that could make US metas be uninstalled
[01:50] <astraljava> ScottL:  It wasn't that much, once I figured out what needs to be done.
[01:50] <falktx__> ScottL: a simple depends "hydrogen | hydrogen-svn" will fix those
[01:50] <falktx__> ScottL: is this ok to you?
[01:50] <falktx__> I got a user requesting it now
[01:51] <ScottL> falktx__, hmmmm, oh, you mean in our meta!
[01:51] <astraljava> falktx__: That sounds unlikely. We will depend only on stuff that's in the official repos. IMHO, of course.
[01:51] <ScottL> i thought falktx__ meant in hydrogen or such which really isn't only in our purview
[01:51] <ScottL> astraljava, but if we used that in our seeds, would that be a problem?
[01:52] <astraljava> Maybe I'm not understanding the issue right.
[01:52] <falktx__> astraljava: some PPAs have package alternative that make US metas uninstallable
[01:52] <falktx__> hydrogen-svn is one of then
[01:53] <falktx__> blender25 was one too, on lucid at least
[01:53] <micahg> those are the problems of the PPA maintainers, not the distro
[01:53] <falktx__> the thing is, they are not official packages
[01:53] <falktx__> micahg: yeah, but modifying US metas in a PPA doesn't sound good
[01:53] <astraljava> I'm kinda leaning to Micah's side, here.
[01:54] <micahg> if they're providing hydrogen, then their package should do the same regardless of source name
[01:54] <falktx__> let me give the hydrogen example
[01:54] <falktx__> hydrogen vs hydrogen-svn
[01:54] <falktx__> the user has a choice to install the stable version or the unstable
[01:55] <falktx__> here's the official Hydrogen PPA -> https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/+archive/hydrogen
[01:55] <micahg> right, so hydrogen-svn should really be hydrogen with a proper version, barring that, hydrogen-svn can Provides: hydrogen so as not to break the rest of the archive
[01:55] <falktx__> micahg: I tried that myself, but that breaks re-installing regular hydrogen
[01:56] <micahg> why?
[01:56] <falktx__> because the package already provides it
[01:56] <falktx__> it refuses to install it
[01:56] <falktx__> if "Provides:" is not set, then it will install fine
[01:56] <falktx__> but that breaks US metas
[01:56] <ScottL> oh, the meta's are now recommends for 12.04
[01:57] <micahg> no, the real package should take precedence over the virtual one if both are an option
[01:57] <ScottL> i don't know if that was discussed yet or not
[01:57] <ScottL> doesn't that mean that the meta's can be removed without any issue?
[01:57] <falktx__> micahg: hydrogen is already a real package, there are not virtual packages here
[01:57] <micahg> ScottL: you should only have a recommends on stuff that you want users to be able to uninstall in whichever meta it is
[01:57] <falktx__> ScottL: perhaps...
[01:58] <micahg> falktx__: hydrogen-svn providing hydrogen is a vritual hydrogen
[01:58] <micahg> *cvirtual
[01:58] <falktx__> micahg: then why does it fail? (or it did so in 10.04)
[01:59] <falktx__> I had issues with hydrogen-svn has files that hydrogen package also has, and hydrogen is already installed
[01:59] <micahg> falktx__: you could also install explicitly by version when you're reinstalling
[01:59] <micahg> falktx__: that's what replaces is for
[01:59] <falktx__> hm, doesnt sound very user friendly
[02:00] <falktx__> micahg: anyway, this is just a request
[02:00] <micahg> anyways, going the other way will break, you'd have to remove the hydrogen-svn and then reinstall hydrogen
[02:01] <micahg> PPAs break distro packages quite often
[02:01] <micahg> it's the nature of the beast
[02:01] <astraljava> Isn't there an explicit PPA removal tool these days?
[02:01] <micahg> yes, ppa-purge, in the distro since maverick
[02:01] <astraljava> specific*
[02:01] <astraljava> Yep.
[02:02] <micahg> ah, it's in lucid-backports as well
[02:02] <falktx__> micahg: the current way it auto-removes hydrogen for *-svn, or auto-removes *-svn for hydrogen
[02:02] <astraljava> Yeah. I mean, adding all those new PPAs for our metas whenever they appear... that's not going to last.
[02:02] <micahg> falktx__: so, the solution is to version the PPA package properly using the hydrogen name, then using ppa-purge from backports if one wants to remove it
[02:03] <falktx__> micahg: no, because the PPA has updated versions of it, so the user will be back to an old version of hydrogen when trying to remove hydrogen-svn
[02:03] <micahg> falktx__: what's the issue?
[02:03] <falktx__> in this case the PPA provides
[02:03] <falktx__> both
[02:04] <falktx__> micahg: installing hydrogen-svn auto-removes hydrogen, and that removes US metas
[02:04] <micahg> right, the PPA is doing it wrong, if the packages aren't coinstallable, changing the name doesn't help
[02:05] <falktx__> the name change is the allow an user to select which version to install, within 1 PPA only
[02:06] <micahg> right, but it breaks the distro, so, the choices are to use 2 PPAs for this like other projects, or break the distro
[02:06] <falktx__> not if US could support it
[02:06] <falktx__> it's a tiny detail
[02:06] <micahg> yes, but what does US say to the next 100 people with the same request, it becomes unmanageable quite quickly
[02:07] <falktx__> of course
[02:07] <falktx__> that is just a request
[02:07] <micahg> still, it's not my call, but that's MHO
[02:08] <falktx__> hydrogen is a bit more important than usual because it's installed in US by default, and that PPA links to the *officially* supported hydrogen PPA
[02:09] <astraljava> It's the pain of the maintaining such a beast. Like I said, the PPAs are unstable. By quality as well as by numbers. It'd be a tough chore to keep it up-to-date.
[02:09] <micahg> hydrogen is a good candidate for backports if someone wants to work with me on it
[02:09]  * micahg is also a member of ubuntu-backporters :)
[02:09] <astraljava> Sure, why not.
[02:10] <falktx__> I would
[02:10] <astraljava> Scott has made a point out of that repeatedly.
[02:10] <falktx__> I plan to stay on 12.04 for a while
[02:10] <micahg> we can take the latest stable as long as the build and run time dependencies are met
[02:10] <falktx__> and 2 people report it stable, I think
[02:11] <micahg> there's a new tool in 12.04, requestbackport, it'll help file these requests
[02:11] <micahg> it's in ubuntu-dev-tools, requirements for backports are build/install/run
[02:11] <micahg> so that might alleviate the problem as well
[02:12] <falktx__> hm, nice
[02:13] <micahg> oh, also, there has to be an upgrade path, either through backports or to the next release, so as long as we have testers, it should be fairly easy to approve hydrogen
[02:13] <micahg> or any other leaf app for that matter
[02:14] <falktx__> micahg: but I guess new apps are still hard work, right?
[02:15] <falktx__> specially if they are not yet in the stable release
[02:15] <micahg> falktx__: what do you mean?  no, that makes it easier as it usually doesn't have any reverse dependencies
[02:16] <falktx__> micahg: I mean if we want a new app into 12.04, after being released
[02:16] <micahg> yeah, through -backports it
[02:16] <micahg> s usually not an issue
[02:18] <falktx__> micahg: but that needs to go into 12.10 first, right?
[02:18] <falktx__> otherwise it's not really a "backport"
[02:18] <micahg> correct
[02:18] <micahg> but backports might open pre-release which would mean not waiting
[02:19] <micahg> it's still best to get it in Debian first though if possible
[02:39] <len-nb> Having trouble finding bug numbers for bugs I know are there.
[02:44] <ScottL> len-nb, it's good to link bugs, but this testing is more about validating the integrity of the _iso_ rather than finding, filing, and linking all the bugs
[02:45] <ScottL> if you can find the bugs, link then...but don't let not finding the bugs keep you from completing the qa report
[02:46] <len-nb> I think I will put the rest in comments then.
[02:48] <len-nb> There is a bug for the installer crashing and apport pointed it out to me but then I have done two installs since and I can't find it.
[02:50] <astraljava> bug 870643
[03:11] <len-nb> Thanks, now I need to edit the report.
[03:12] <len-nb> next question... I've marked the live session as failed but not sure if that is right.
[03:13] <len-nb> There are problems with the live dvd, but they are just the same ones as the install. Not a problem unique to the live session.
[03:16] <astraljava> len-nb: Did you know there are links to the test cases in the tracker, specifying the requirements?
[03:23] <len-nb> Are we supposed to only check those things? Those requirements are pretty sparse.
[03:23] <len-nb> astraljava: I would think we should be looking for US specific needs
[03:25] <len-nb> Also if I do things exactly as that says it would just fail at bug 870643
[03:25] <len-nb> and nothing else would get tested.
[03:28] <astraljava> len-nb: We will be adding US specific cases later into the cycle. That's it for now, though.
[03:31] <len-nb> astraljava: Is there a way to edit things? I will leave the install as is, but the live session could be considered as a pass. I haven't tried persistence as I was making my usb as like a dvd as I could... readonly
[03:33] <astraljava> len-nb: Yeah... I regarded the live session as a pass, despite the fact that I didn't do persistence either.
[03:36] <len-nb> astraljava: I can't find any way to edit my results, so it says fail though I did explain in comments.
[03:36] <astraljava> len-nb: Let me check.
[03:38] <astraljava> len-nb: There should be the icon of a pencil on the far right of that row.
[03:39] <len-nb> Got it astraljava Ive set that to a pass.
[03:40] <len-nb> How come i can only see my results?
[03:41] <astraljava> Are you looking at i386? I did amd64.
[03:42] <len-nb> OK
[03:42] <astraljava> Thanks a lot for these!
[03:43] <astraljava> At least one of each is done for this milestone.
[03:43] <astraljava> That's good enough at this stage of the cycle.
[03:49] <len-nb> astraljava:will there be another image tomorrow that needs testing or is that it for now?
[03:52] <astraljava> len-nb: I believe that's it for now, we'll continue with dailies until the next milestone.
[03:57] <len-nb> ok
[14:21] <astraljava> ScottL: I'm assuming they'll want decisions regarding our Alpha-2 soon on -release. It's your call, of course, but I would at least suggest to mention and underline the fact that it isn't installable 100%, so only use it as a live session tool, a preview snapshot if you will.
[14:22] <astraljava> I'm going to take a nap now. Back in a few hours.
[18:09] <scott-work> == Ubuntu Studio ==  '''New Items'''  * New XFCE theme / UI / default setting - requesting user feedback on these items to -devel mailing list  * New "desktop" applications for new typical desktop uses - requesting user feedback on these choices  * Ubuntu Studio is now a live-dvd, alternative installation image is phased out  '''Known Problems'''  * live user does not have access to rt privileges  * installed user doe
[18:11] <scott-work> please ignore that detritus
[18:19] <scott-work> astraljava: are you around?
[18:19] <scott-work> didn't len say that he had a successful install?
[18:19] <scott-work> at least ubiquity didn't fail i mean?
[18:19] <scott-work> did anyone?
[18:22] <astraljava> scott-work: Hi. I don't know, judging from the results in tracker, ubiquity crashes for him, too.
[18:32] <scott-work> astraljava: i told #ubuntu-release that it woudl be prudent not to publish the A2 image then
[18:32] <scott-work> :(
[18:40] <astraljava> Yeah. Well, I wouldn't want _users_ face the problems. Experienced power users can try it out, but we should just concentrate on polishing it for a quality beta-1 release.
[21:15] <len> scott-work: install completes only if there is no network connection.
[21:16] <scott-work> len: interesting :/
[21:16] <ailo> len: Wireless?
[21:16] <scott-work> and funny that you typed that just as i sat down from a whole freaking day of meeting and am now at my desk again :P
[21:16] <ailo> Ah, network connection..
[21:16] <len> The ubiquity bug has to do with downloading. So if there is network it doesn't try.
[21:17] <len> Wireless does work now, but I can not connect by not giving a wep key
[21:17] <len> Oops that should be no network.
[21:22] <len> ailo: I noticed that the flash player won't download from the firefox somethings missing/install plugin dialogue either. It seems to get part way through and then sit there forever till cancelled. Same bug.