[14:56] <jonathanhindi> ashams: el meeting hyb2a hena ?!
[14:56] <ashams> jonathanhindi, it should be, but no one around so far!
[14:57] <jonathanhindi> no irc channel for the council sa7 ?!
[14:57] <ashams> yes, sure :)
[14:57] <jonathanhindi> who is attending? All of us ?!
[14:58] <ashams> no, it should be all but Anas
[14:58] <jonathanhindi> I have to go on 6:00 :(
[14:59] <ashams> I suspect if we''l have a meeting at all :(
[14:59] <ashams> we'll*
[15:00] <jonathanhindi> me too !
[15:01] <ashams> El balad wal3a, I felt shame to send a reminder :-(
[15:03] <jonathanhindi> Gamal, told me seconds.
[15:04] <ashams> cool
[15:05] <ashams> Wazery said he'll be here in minutes
[15:06] <mgamal> ping
[15:06] <jonathanhindi> mgamal:  Welcome
[15:07] <mgamal> jonathanhindi: thanks
[15:07] <ashams> mgamal, welcome man
[15:08] <mgamal> welcome, ashams
[15:08] <jonathanhindi> ytbka wazery
[15:11] <mgamal> ashams: can you post a link for the agenda?
[15:11] <jonathanhindi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/Meetings/Agendas/2012-02-0X#preview
[15:11] <mgamal> thanks jon
[15:12] <ashams> oh no, just renamed it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/Meetings/Agendas/2012-02-03
[15:12] <ashams> sorry jonathanhindi :(
[15:12] <ashams> I always on the bad time
[15:12] <jonathanhindi> ashams: no problem
[15:16] <mgamal> so?
[15:17] <ashams> Menopia, hi o/
[15:17] <Menopia> Hi guys :D
[15:17] <Menopia> hi ashams :)
[15:17] <ashams> hi dude :-)
[15:17] <Menopia> what's going on?
[15:17] <ashams> cool
[15:18] <jonathanhindi> ok guys lets start because i have to leave at 6
[15:18] <Menopia> ok
[15:18] <ashams> so, it's first meeting and thus things are a little weird
[15:18] <Menopia> but where ahmed toulan
[15:18] <ashams> he won't attend
[15:19] <ashams> ok, let's proceed with first item
[15:19] <ashams> Council: Responsibilities of Council
[15:19] <Menopia> ok
[15:19] <Menopia> what is the agenda :D:D
[15:19] <jonathanhindi> Menopia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EgyptTeam/Meetings/Agendas/2012-02-03
[15:19] <Menopia> thanks jonathanhindi
[15:19] <jonathanhindi> ashams: please proceed !
[15:20] <jonathanhindi> Menopia: urw
[15:20] <ashams> as suggested by community council, it's 1)Solve conflicts, 2)approve process change
[15:20] <ashams> do we need more?
[15:20] <ashams> this is just warming up
[15:20] <mgamal> I don't think so
[15:20] <jonathanhindi> ashams: monitor focus groups
[15:20] <ashams> good point
[15:21] <ashams> which drive us to council form
[15:21] <mgamal> the less responsibilities the council has, the more space there is for the community to breathe
[15:21] <ashams> how should we form council, from FGs
[15:21] <ashams> ?
[15:21] <ashams> FGs' admins be council members by nature?
[15:21] <Menopia> sorry guys, but can we call anas as he told me that he wants someone to remind him and I don't have his number
[15:21] <ashams> ok, I'll do it
[15:22] <ashams> how can ppl join council?
[15:23] <Menopia> applying for it, and let the community to vote
[15:23] <ashams> we already agreed upon Official members of Ubutnu-EG(Membership can be granted through preparing application > meeting > Approval or refusal)
[15:23] <jonathanhindi> ashams:  By elections from any fg, But we need to put a detailed procedures for forming the council, and how people can apply
[15:23] <ashams> should we restrict it to FG members?
[15:24] <ashams> Menopia, i like this approach too
[15:24] <mgamal> ashams: I prefer having it open for any member
[15:24] <Menopia> I agree with jonathanhindi
[15:24] <ashams> what if non-fg member wants to join council?
[15:24] <jonathanhindi> ashams: nop i mean that he/she must be a working in ubuntu egypt for a while at least 1 year, and an official member of ubuntu egypt
[15:25] <mgamal> ashams: I don't think there is a problem with that
[15:25] <ashams> jonathanhindi, that approach shows 2 problems
[15:25] <mgamal> btw guys, what are the membership procedures for ubuntu-eg?
[15:25] <ashams> 1) how can we measure if some1 is workin in ubuntu-eg for that long
[15:26] <jonathanhindi> ashams: from the membership application.
[15:26] <ashams> 2) like mgamal said, what is ubuntu-eg membership?
[15:26] <ashams> being reg'd doesn't mean s/he's active enough!
[15:26] <Menopia> I think we need a wiki page to describe this procedure
[15:27] <ashams> yeah
[15:27] <jonathanhindi> ashams: When you were talking about the council responsibility, you say that the council will approve memberships I am wrong ?
[15:28] <ashams> how can ppl gain ubuntu-eg membership and should we complicate it like so?
[15:28] <ashams> jonathanhindi, actually I can't remember :P
[15:29] <mgamal> I guess for that we can just follow the same procedures for the global ubuntu membership
[15:29] <mgamal> wat do you guys think?
[15:29] <ashams> ok, if ubuntu-eg membership, how can ppl join? who should accept their membership?
[15:29] <Menopia> ashams, it's not very complicated, any active person can make an application with his work and we the council approve him or not
[15:29] <jonathanhindi> ashams: gain it by applying to it, and in the application must have some easy procedures like the ubuntu global memberships. mgamal you hit my point :),
[15:30] <jonathanhindi> Menopia: I think this is a good working plan
[15:30] <ashams> cool, we agreed then :)
[15:30] <ashams> should we move to next point?
[15:30] <jonathanhindi> for me yes
[15:31] <Menopia> I think so
[15:31] <ashams> Council Term. 6 months, longer or shorter?
[15:31] <Menopia> it's enough
[15:31] <Menopia> in my opinion
[15:32] <jonathanhindi> ashams: me too, its ok for 6 month, every release cycle
[15:32] <Menopia> and the voting can be done in every release party
[15:32] <ashams> wooow, that's coooool
[15:33] <ashams> I love this idea :-)
[15:33] <mgamal> I object
[15:33] <mgamal> public voting on IRC
[15:33] <mgamal> not all members can attend live meetings
[15:33] <mgamal> transparency people, transparency
[15:33] <Menopia> So I think mailing list is better than irc
[15:34] <jonathanhindi> Menopia and ashams i think we must divided between our internal events and external events, I agree with mgamal voting on irc
[15:35] <ashams> let's vote: <medium> <value>
[15:35] <ashams> IRC +1
[15:35] <jonathanhindi> IRC +1
[15:35] <Menopia> IRC +1
[15:35] <jonathanhindi> tab mien b2a el mo3tried :D
[15:35] <ashams> almost done :)
[15:35] <Menopia> should we but the IRC in the beginning ?
[15:35] <Menopia> :D
[15:36] <Menopia> mowafka :D
[15:36] <ashams> mgamal, IRC +1?
[15:36] <mgamal> IRC +1
[15:36] <ashams> cool
[15:36] <ashams> next point?
[15:36] <jonathanhindi> ashams: i think the voting should happen before the release day with 2 weeks at least
[15:36] <Menopia> jonathanhindi, why?
[15:37] <ashams> to leave 1 week for FG elections
[15:37] <ashams> right?
[15:37] <Menopia> aha
[15:37] <Menopia> jonathanhindi,
[15:38] <jonathanhindi> Menopia: I am looking forward, kman people who work in the council are almost the most active members in the community and they should be preparing for the release party
[15:38] <ashams> good reason, even
[15:38] <ashams> mgamal, 2 weeks before release?
[15:38] <jonathanhindi> Menopia: so kol mkan badri kol mkan a7san
[15:39] <mgamal> shouldn't the new council be formed _after_ every release?
[15:39] <ashams> why?
[15:39] <mgamal> I am asking :)
[15:39] <Menopia> jonathanhindi, aha I got it
[15:39] <jonathanhindi> Menopia and ashams i think after will solve my concern :)
[15:40] <jonathanhindi> but i prefer before :D
[15:40] <ashams> so we settled on after?
[15:41] <mgamal> I guess we can hold the votes before the  release but the new council should assume responsibility after the release :)
[15:41] <Menopia> Totally agree mgamal,
[15:41] <jonathanhindi> mgamal: ana kont baktib keda :D
[15:41] <ashams> cool
[15:41] <ashams> it's done
[15:41] <ashams> next point?
[15:41] <mgamal> in that case it doesn't matter when we vote
[15:41] <Menopia> next point :)
[15:41] <mgamal> we can vote on the release day itself
[15:41] <mgamal> next point
[15:42] <ashams> that's the next point, release date gets changed every time
[15:42] <ashams> we need stable dates for elections
[15:42] <ashams> end of april and end of oct?
[15:42] <mgamal> agree
[15:42] <jonathanhindi> 6 months from the past election date
[15:43] <jonathanhindi> last **
[15:43] <ashams> jonathanhindi,  this way it can shift on the long run
[15:43] <Menopia> agree with ashams,
[15:44] <ashams> shift a bit earlier or later
[15:44] <jonathanhindi> but that way we can make sure that every council got the same time as the last one
[15:44] <Menopia> end of april and end of oct
[15:45] <mgamal> votes everyone?
[15:45] <ashams> vote: 6months period -------------- OR ------- end of april, end of oct ?
[15:45] <mgamal> end of april, end of october +1
[15:45] <Menopia> +1
[15:45] <jonathanhindi> ashams: i think it is the same :D
[15:45] <jonathanhindi> +! end or april, end of october :D
[15:45] <jonathanhindi> +1 *
[15:45] <Menopia> sorry +1 end of april, end of october
[15:45] <ashams> ok , done
[15:46] <ashams> next?
[15:46] <jonathanhindi> next
[15:46] <jonathanhindi> Number of council members.
[15:46] <mgamal> number of members?
[15:46] <ashams> how many ppl should be their on council?
[15:46] <ashams> hahaha :-)
[15:46] <jonathanhindi> 5% of the community official members
[15:47] <ashams> mind blowing thing ;)
[15:47] <Menopia> :D
[15:47] <mgamal> 5 are enough
[15:47] <mgamal> once we have many members in FGs we can have delegates from each FG
[15:47] <mgamal> so I say for now 5
[15:48] <jonathanhindi> mgamal: good point
[15:48] <ashams> jonathanhindi 5 or 5% ?
[15:49] <jonathanhindi> 5liha 5 :)
[15:49] <ashams> I think 5% is the future, but now it's too advanced :)
[15:49] <ashams> so 5, done?
[15:49] <ashams> ala2ona!
[15:49] <Menopia> ok :D
[15:49] <ashams> next?
[15:49] <jonathanhindi> ashams: i was think with the future in mind when i was saying 5%
[15:50] <ashams> jonathanhindi, I could read that ;)
[15:50] <mgamal> initial FGs
[15:50] <ashams> A)Support
[15:50] <ashams> B)Spokespersons
[15:50] <ashams> C)Marketing
[15:50] <ashams> D)Moderators
[15:50] <ashams> E)Website Maintainers
[15:50] <ashams> F)Social Media
[15:50] <ashams> G)Bankers
[15:50] <ashams> H)Sponsors
[15:50] <ashams> Those are intial FGs we agreed upon on ML
[15:50] <ashams> any objections
[15:51] <jonathanhindi> who is the bankers ?!
[15:51] <ashams> money holders :P
[15:51] <Menopia> and where is the media
[15:51] <mgamal> I guess you mean treasurers
[15:51] <mgamal> anyway
[15:51] <ashams> Menopia, Social Media
[15:51] <mgamal> one suggestion
[15:51] <ashams> coool
[15:51] <ashams> shooot
[15:51] <mgamal> Social Media, Marketing, and sponsorts can be lumped into one group
[15:51] <mgamal> PR
[15:52] <ashams> mgamal, ma 2olna keda, jonathanhindi 2al nefsel, sa7 ya 3am?
[15:52] <jonathanhindi> mgamal: i think when people are trying to get sponsors is very different from social media maslan !
[15:52] <mgamal> we can start with PR now, once we grow we can diversify
[15:53] <jonathanhindi> ana 2wlt eno social media can be with marketinhg
[15:53] <ashams> jonathanhindi, so you have a good memory !
[15:54] <jonathanhindi> mesh 3rief i don't agree hwa fi haga 3'lat, bas mesh adier a5li el social media m3 el sponsors maslan
[15:54] <ashams> so merge socail media with marketing, or make all into PR?
[15:54] <ashams> or leave separate?
[15:54] <jonathanhindi> +1 for mege social media with marketing
[15:54] <mgamal> let's leave sponsors separate
[15:55] <mgamal> +1 for jonathan's suggestion
[15:55] <ashams> heh, the same meaning in diff words
[15:55] <ashams> Menopia, agree on this ^
[15:55] <Menopia> mowafka
[15:55] <ashams> done
[15:55] <mgamal> wait
[15:55] <mgamal> the spokespersons
[15:56] <mgamal> shouldn't they be part of PR too?
[15:56] <jonathanhindi> mgamal: ana mesh 3rief lazmitha brdo
[15:56] <ashams> what about?
[15:56] <ashams> jonathanhindi, mgamal it's expansion for council
[15:56] <ashams> we have limited no of council
[15:56] <ashams> but we need to sear into governorates
[15:56] <ashams> like alex
[15:56] <ashams> we have branch there
[15:57] <ashams> but I suspect if a council member will be there
[15:57] <mgamal> aha
[15:57] <ashams> so, it's a major obstacle
[15:57] <jonathanhindi> ashams: good point
[15:57] <ashams> so, done?
[15:57] <mgamal> still spokespersons can be part of PR regardless of their location
[15:58] <ashams> ok vote: merger spokespersons into PR? +1, -1 or +0
[15:58] <mgamal> +1
[15:59] <Menopia> +1
[15:59] <jonathanhindi> hwa fien el pr you mean the sm with the marketing is named pr. sm and marketing should be renamed marketing not pr
[16:00] <mgamal> whatever the name is
[16:00] <mgamal> sm, marketing, and spokespersons in one group
[16:00] <jonathanhindi> spokespersons is not relavent to marketing that's what i mean
[16:01] <ashams> Guys it's almost 6;00, do you want to continue?
[16:01] <mgamal> I have no problem with that
[16:01] <jonathanhindi> ashams: momkin 10 mins kman
[16:01] <ashams> ok
[16:01] <ashams> A)Support
[16:01] <ashams> B)Sponsors
[16:01] <ashams> C)PR: Marketing + Social Media + Spokespersons
[16:01] <ashams> D)Moderators
[16:01] <ashams> E)Website Maintainers
[16:01] <ashams> F)Bankers
[16:01] <ashams> final shape?
[16:01] <mgamal> +1
[16:02] <Menopia> MOWAFKA :D
[16:02] <ashams> Bankers = treasurers :)
[16:02] <jonathanhindi> +0
[16:02] <mgamal> ashams?
[16:02] <ashams> jonathanhindi, what happened?
[16:02] <ashams> jonathanhindi, so we kick marketing?
[16:03] <ashams> or kick spokespersons?
[16:03] <jonathanhindi> nop but i think marketing must not be with spokespersons
[16:03] <ashams> so, can we intiate now, then we separate when we figure out more about the nature of such FGs?
[16:04] <jonathanhindi> ok
[16:04] <ashams> +1
[16:04] <jonathanhindi> +1
[16:04] <ashams> coool
[16:04] <ashams> How can persons join FGs?
[16:05] <mgamal> by simple announcement
[16:05] <ashams> we almost agreed on: Anyone with history in that specific job(to preserve quality) and Activity on it.
[16:06] <ashams> are we done with this?
[16:06] <jonathanhindi> I think when applying to the membership he/she choose his preference. according to his/her experience should be part of the fg
[16:06] <jonathanhindi> brb phone
[16:06] <Menopia> jonathanhindi, ana kont baktb kda :)
[16:06] <mgamal> here is what I think
[16:07] <mgamal> any volunteer can join the FG he wants
[16:07] <ashams> but Quality ya man!
[16:07] <mgamal> as of that moment he is an FG member
[16:07] <mgamal> ashams: what is the specific job of an FG?
[16:07] <ashams> according to each FG
[16:08] <ashams> if Support, they give support on our mediums
[16:08] <ashams> that's for example
[16:08] <mgamal> cool
[16:09] <mgamal> so FGs must be joined by people who are willing to do that activity, no?
[16:09] <Menopia> yes
[16:09] <ashams> right:)
[16:09] <Menopia> anyone
[16:09] <Menopia> in any time
[16:09] <mgamal> the question is. Are "FGs" elite groups of people who already did activities, or is it the way people do activities from?
[16:10] <Menopia> the way people do activities from in my opinion
[16:10] <mgamal> same here, Menopia
[16:10] <mgamal> what I envision basically is that all ubuntu-eg members are members of one FG  or another
[16:10] <ashams> no, they are active ppl who want to do specific job, but bearing in mind that they should be at some good experience as they wil represent ubuntu-eg
[16:11] <Menopia> ashams, you have a point
[16:11] <mgamal> ok, so should we take votes?
[16:11] <ashams> each FG has it's own members
[16:12] <jonathanhindi> mgamal: please tell me votes on what?
[16:12] <mgamal> on the nature of FGs
[16:13] <Menopia> I think it is better if we leave it with no voting and anyone, this way we can grant that new members are participating freely
[16:13] <mgamal> agree with Menopia
[16:14] <ashams> but quality!
[16:14] <Menopia> the representation can't be made if he/she is not an official member
[16:14] <jonathanhindi> quality matters, i think we could find a balanced solution
[16:14] <ashams> those will officially represent the whole team
[16:14] <Menopia> the quality is in the hands of the FG leader
[16:15] <mgamal> so the question again is are FGs "elite groups" or "voluntary groups"?
[16:15] <Menopia> one of his responsibility is to grant that any work he approve meets the quality, and the community can guide him
[16:15] <jonathanhindi> Menopia: if you are a fg leader of spokespersons and all the members fear public speaking. and you need 2 of them to present something at the moment, what you are going to do?
[16:16] <Menopia> mmm
[16:16] <mgamal> the members should've not joined spokespersons group to begin wihth
[16:16] <ashams> I vote on elite +1
[16:17] <mgamal> membership should be voluntary for this reason
[16:17] <jonathanhindi> ento la5btoni
[16:17] <mgamal> so let's take votes, elite or open
[16:17] <ashams> me tooooooo
[16:17] <ashams> elite +1
[16:17] <jonathanhindi> can you give me one moment ashr7lkom haga
[16:17] <ashams> ok
[16:18] <ashams> guys, I have to go, so sorrrry
[16:18] <jonathanhindi> I don't think when we are searching for quality we can check it by the ability of the person to learn not only his past experience, so why not open, because we need at least to check if he can learn the job or not. bas keda
[16:19] <Menopia> jonathanhindi, e7na momken nestasny el sposkespersons fg mn enaha tb2a open
[16:19] <ashams> what about make it open but joiners should show some experience
[16:20] <ashams> ?
[16:20] <mgamal> hard to do
[16:20] <jonathanhindi> la2 the same time if you are talking about social media and the members don't have a fb account what you are going to do? thats all it is about a skills and abilities
[16:20] <mgamal> hmmm
[16:20] <mgamal> I guess this needs a separate discussion
[16:21] <mgamal> can we leave this to the next meeting?
[16:21] <ashams> yes plz
[16:21] <jonathanhindi> please
[16:21] <ashams> gtg, and will read logs later, sorrrrrrrrry
[16:21] <ashams> byeeeee
[16:21] <ashams> :(
[16:21] <jonathanhindi> I have to go too
[16:21] <jonathanhindi> so can we meet again to continue the agenda !
[16:21] <mgamal> ok
[16:21] <mgamal> before you leave
[16:21] <ashams> what about next friday?
[16:21] <Menopia> ok
[16:21] <mgamal> that's too far
[16:22] <mgamal> can we make it tomorrow, 5 pm?
[16:22] <ashams> tab monday?
[16:22] <jonathanhindi> before wednesday i am not free
[16:22] <mgamal> aha
[16:22] <mgamal> next Friday is good for me then
[16:22] <ashams> 5pm?
[16:22] <mgamal> ok
[16:22] <jonathanhindi> Next wednesday or next firday
[16:22] <Menopia> I agree with tomorrow and Monday
[16:23] <ashams> next friday, IRC or in person?
[16:23] <Menopia> IRC
[16:23] <mgamal> IRC
[16:23] <jonathanhindi> IRC
[16:23] <ashams> friday, 5 pm?
[16:24] <Menopia> ok
[16:24] <jonathanhindi> blash fi nos el youm
[16:24] <ashams> tab when, 8 pm, is ok with Menopia and mgamal ?
[16:24] <jonathanhindi> 5las 5 ok
[16:25] <Menopia> mashy
[16:25] <ashams> ok 5 then
[16:25] <Menopia> 5 wala 8
[16:25] <mgamal> 8 is ok
[16:25] <Menopia> :)
[16:25] <mgamal> 5 is ok
[16:25] <mgamal> both are ok :
[16:25] <mgamal> even 10am is ok on Friday
[16:25] <ashams> so we settle to 5
[16:25] <mgamal> ok
[16:26] <mgamal> let's take votes
[16:26] <Menopia> ok
[16:26] <ashams> friday 5:00pm ..Irc
[16:26] <jonathanhindi> 10 am 7ellw awey
[16:26] <mgamal> Friday, 5pm, IRC? +1 if you agree,
[16:26] <ashams> +1
[16:26] <mgamal> +1
[16:26] <Menopia> +1
[16:26] <jonathanhindi> 10 am please :D
[16:26] <mgamal> MOWAFAQA
[16:26] <Menopia> mashy
[16:27] <Menopia> 10 mafesh moshkla
[16:27] <mgamal> or should that be WAFAQ AL-COUNCIL now? :P
[16:27] <ashams> ya3ni 10 am?
[16:27] <jonathanhindi> 10 am
[16:27] <ashams> we took time to decide time more than meeting itself
[16:27] <jonathanhindi> hehe
[16:27] <ashams> we could hav efinish agenda by now :D
[16:28] <ashams> have finished*
[16:28] <jonathanhindi> ok 10 am yala byebey :D
[16:28] <ashams> 10 am +1
[16:28] <mgamal> what? what?
[16:28] <jonathanhindi> 10 am +1
[16:28] <mgamal> -1
[16:28] <Menopia> mgamal, I am like you I thought it was PM
[16:28] <ashams> Menopia ?
[16:29] <ashams> ok i really gtg
[16:29] <mgamal> ok, let's discuss this on the ML
[16:29] <ashams> I'll read the logs and will be there isA, any time you choose
[16:29] <jonathanhindi> decided on the ml
[16:29] <Menopia> ok
[16:29] <jonathanhindi> byebye
[16:29] <ashams> lolz
[16:29] <mgamal> bye
[16:30] <ashams> shit, we couldn't decide time on IRC and moved it to ML, that's EPIC :D
[16:30] <thelinuxer> ashams: mgamal Menopia how r u guys :)
[16:30] <ashams> bye
[16:30] <Menopia> ana 2a3ed
[16:30] <Menopia> msh mashy :D
[16:30] <Menopia> thelinuxer, how are you man
[16:30] <thelinuxer> Menopia: fine .. done with the meeting ?
[16:30] <Menopia> wa7shnyy :D
[16:30] <mgamal> yep
[16:31] <thelinuxer> wenta kaman ya man .. law kan meeting bara kont geet ba3do ashofko :)
[16:31] <mgamal> jonathan and shams had to leave so we have moved some discussions to the next meetoing
[16:31] <thelinuxer> cool  i didn't know eno el meeting fe3lan 7aye7sal :D
[16:31] <thelinuxer> kont gebt moot bot walla 7aga
[16:32] <Menopia> ana ha2om akol wagy :D:D
[16:32] <thelinuxer> Menopia: cool
[16:53] <Menopia> back
[16:54] <mgamal> wb
[17:03] <thelinuxer> Menopia: wb
[17:10] <thelinuxer> mgamal: Menopia got my email ?
[17:10] <mgamal> dunno
[17:11] <thelinuxer> i just sent u an email can u check ur inbox ?
[17:11] <Menopia> yes
[17:11] <Menopia> and I agree
[17:12] <thelinuxer> that's cool Menopia
[17:12] <thelinuxer> mgamal: and we shouldn't worry a lot about transparency
[17:13] <thelinuxer> cause it's a third party tool and we can't actually control anything but the dates and the emails-addresses