=== DaveBug is now known as DaveBug|Zzz [08:16] Morning all [08:22] \o [08:24] guten morgan [08:42] Morning all [08:59] * MartijnVdS goes for a walk. Through the snow. With a camera. [09:02] nice, a lot of snow MartijnVdS ? [09:02] yes, and -15 [09:03] :( [09:03] -7 here this morning [09:03] some parts of .nl broke records with -23 [09:03] Supposedly snow later this afternoon [09:06] I'd like to come back there at some point, the guy we rent our offices are from the netherlands [09:06] is from* [09:31] I have setup apache and chowned the directory to the www-data user. Is there a way I can give my own user account the same permissions as www-data? So I can edit without having to so "sudo su www-data" [09:33] didn't realise it was a timed quiz. I was trying to figure out how to explain why I don't let www-data write to /srv/www [09:34] shauno: how does apache write to log files that are 755 root/root? [09:34] kvarley, doesn't directly answer what you're trying to do, but www-data doesn't need to own the path. it just needs to be able to read it. the less www-data can write to, the less impact you have from things like the timthumb vuln in wordpress [09:35] ali1234, it's lauched as root:root and pivots permissions to those in the config. so it just needs to open the files for writing before it does that [09:35] ah ok [09:35] nothing to worry about then [09:35] or maybe leaves a thread around that's owned by root, not sure. my main worry is what rights it executes php with [09:38] ah, yeah, mine has one thread running as root, and 5 workers running as www-data [09:38] shauno: Mine needs to be able to write and stuff because it's running a cms [09:40] I'm sure there's more than one way to skin it, but for cache folders I have soneil:www-data, and make them group-writable [09:40] or you could add yourself to the www-data group and do something similar the other way around too, I guess [09:44] I think if you need more than one user to write to the same thing, the sensible answer is going to involve groups regardless of how much paranoia you aproach it with :) [10:05] my sata hotplug plan isn't going to plan [10:05] is there a way to poke the kernel and get it to rescan devices? [10:05] Ah [10:05] hi TheOpenSourcerer, I have 3TB of spinning rust for you [10:05] Thanks. Are you in most of the day? Will probably be going to Sainsbury's later. [10:06] yeah, should be in [10:06] OK. [10:06] * AlanBell has already been to Sainsbury's [10:06] * TheOpenSourcerer has only just got up! [10:08] I think a reboot is in order [10:08] see you on the other side o/ [10:15] morning [10:15] ready for the rubgy TheOpenSourcerer? [10:15] Heh danfish [10:15] Getting there... [10:16] Change of hostelry for the evening coz the landlord at my local is a total £$%^&*(() [10:16] oops - what did he do? [10:17] Didn't make the TV work. [10:19] they need to invent eccletricity in your parts first :P [10:19] And didn't tell us either. Luckily at about 10:50 last night I asked him if he was all set for tomorrow. Then he mentioned that the TV wasn't working. Hasn't been for sometime apparently. [10:19] )(*&^%$%£"£$% [10:20] not the best commercial decision [10:21] * danfish is opening a few bottles of home made cider for the game [10:23] Right, need to plan the food for the week. (This is my job according to my dear wife. But she does do all the ironing in return). [10:27] TheOpenSourcerer: F&C, McD, BK, ... [10:27] lol [10:28] spam, spam, spam, spam, spam [10:30] good morning everyone. [10:33] \o brobostigon [10:34] \o MartijnVdS [10:38] * MartijnVdS is processing pictures from a snowy walk [10:39] :) [10:46] aquarius: ping [10:51] how is fosdem? [10:52] * MartijnVdS keeps losing the 'reload' button in ff [10:52] it's on the wrong side of the address bar! [10:53] well .......my head a is a little tender [10:53] :) [10:53] czajkowski, pong [10:55] aquarius: that was before I saw your message and worked out what you wanted done [10:56] ROFLOL someone went to the wrong campus not ULB where fosdem is on [10:56] "someone" we know? [10:57] yup [10:57] hence saying it in here and not surrey :) [10:57] AlanBell: see you shortly? [10:57] TheOpenSourcerer: sure [10:57] ok [10:57] ok, we are going to get snow here, starting somewhere between 3pm and 6pm, and then stopping somewhere between midnight and 3am. [10:57] it's SNOWING over here [10:58] causing massive delays [10:58] i can imagine. [10:58] where my brother lives up in northern germany, he has had bad weather for weeks. [10:59] so i might have to have my trip into town abit earlier. [11:02] guest? [11:02] something has gone wrong in the matrix... === Guest53691 is now known as gord [11:04] well, i cant let the snow, not let me go to the pub, and meetup with friends though can i. [11:07] Snow is good for you! :) [11:07] why ? [11:10] Well it's cold. Good for muscles :) [11:11] ok. [11:11] my maybe not the best, for my osteoporosis. [11:12] true [11:13] * brobostigon has insulated underwear, for such an occasion. [11:13] For those extra-cold beers ;) [11:14] :) [11:24] http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/sets/72157629167894627/show [11:28] :) [11:43] heh.. someone about learning the terminal: http://i.imgur.com/SPUdX.jpg [11:45] aquarius: I just snorted in the middle of LO talk, reading your blog [11:45] *hugs* [11:45] am still cold. [11:45] I am worried I may never be properly warm ever again. [11:46] aquarius: bubbly bath [11:46] Laptops produce a lot of heat [11:46] at least you had cigs [11:46] could you imagine how more pissed off youd be with no cigs [11:47] What you need is the underside of a laptop connected to a system of popes containing water which are circulated around your jumper [11:47] or pipes [11:48] popes would be less effective [11:49] I don't want a pope on my lap [11:49] :-) [11:49] aww, poor aquarius. [11:49] aquarius: Try taking a long hot shower and/or bath [11:49] aquarius: massive amounts of capsaicin [11:49] aquarius: you need a curry [11:49] AD a curry. [11:50] AND* [11:50] lentil soup [11:50] czajkowski, if I hadn't had cigarettes I think I would have actually frozen [11:50] I think soo too [11:50] shower. That sounds like a good idea. [11:50] aquarius: sounds rather shite night [11:50] also was there any other keys on the bunch [11:51] nope, just the front door key, which is presumably why I lost it; it was easy for it to fall out of my pocket [11:51] aquarius: did you find the key, or did you just break in? [11:51] neither. [11:51] Waited up until 9am and then got the spare from the estate agent. [11:51] gordonjcp: you need to read the entire blog post. [11:52] * AlanBell sends aquarius a nice warm video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4ij8z8yqzo [11:52] my key is on the Ubuntu lanyard [11:52] handy when at the bottom of my back [11:52] s/back/pack/ I suspect [11:52] though I might be wrong [11:53] MartijnVdS: ironic that his domain name is "kryogenix.org" [11:53] AlanBell: Eww.? [11:53] gordonjcp++ [11:55] hm [11:55] gordonjcp, heh, I didn't even think of that [11:56] czajkowski: what talk are you in? [11:56] my landlord has a spare key [11:56] H1039 [11:56] Libreoffice [11:56] fortunately he lives 200m further up the farm track, not sure how happy he'd be about me knocking on his door at 4am though [11:56] Easy hacks [11:57] gordonjcp, yeah. The estate agent has a spare key, and for total emergencies my mum and dad do (although they're normally 120 miles away, and are currently in Ireland anyway) [11:57] heh [11:58] I think if I got locked out I'd just sit in the car [11:58] gordonjcp, which is exactly what I'd have done if I had my car key [11:58] but it was in the house [11:58] even if it's locked it's not hard to get it open and start the engine [11:58] since it has a plug under the bonnet that appears to be entirely for being easy to hotwire [11:59] ahem. Breaking into my own car and then hotwiring it in the street is a jolly easy way to get arrested, even ignoring the fact that I have no idea how to do that anyway [11:59] gordonjcp: at least, that's what the junkie you bought it from said? :P [12:01] MartijnVdS: there's a big diagnostic connector down beside the battery, with pins for locking and unlocking the doors, a pin for enabling the ignition, and a jumper that you disconnect to turn the starter [12:02] also, I live well away from the main road so no real chance of being done for driving under the influence [12:03] [Stuart Langridge] It's cold outside - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/02/04/it-s-cold-outside [12:03] aquarius: anyway, I'm glad you got it sorted and you didn't freeze to death [12:03] appreciated [12:03] I am, too [12:03] aquarius: I hope you didn't have your address on the keyring [12:04] gordonjcp, nope, for exactly this reason. Just a key. [12:05] the twat that runs the company I work for insists on having keyrings with the company name, logo and address on all the vehicle keys [12:06] gordonjcp: better their address than your address? [12:06] great when your keyring also includes keys for the workshop and several fairly secure sites [12:07] ah yes, this is why they don't print our company name on our access badges [12:07] aquarius: we gave a spare key to one of our neighbors. While I'm sure they wouldn't be thrilled if we woke them up in the middle of the night, they'd do it and would be quite nice about it. [12:07] (but that does depend on having neighbors you get along with) [12:07] Pendulum, yeah, I did that. Then I took it back off them again to give it to the estate agent... [12:08] hindsight is, as usual, 20/20 [12:08] Grrr, I've tried like a hundred and one tutorials, and still nothing, does anyone have a link to a guide that lets me have local & virtual mailboxes? [12:08] aquarius: also, bring a coat to the pub next time :P [12:09] Pendulum, well... yes. :) [12:09] but then I'd have to wear it or carry it all night *in* the pub, which is why I didn't [12:28] it's Penguin weather out there [12:29] penguin42: see my Flickr link from earlier :) [12:30] nice [12:32] Morning all [12:38] \o jutnux [12:44] we have giraffe bread for lunch [12:44] Ewww. [12:45] AlanBell: You're absolutely sure it wasn't Tiger bread? [12:45] waitinh on alison randall to give her talk [12:47] woot, 6nations starts today [12:47] I got some of that [12:48] disappointed, didn't appear to have any giraffe in it at all [12:49] penguin42: I checked carefully, looks nothing like a tiger [12:49] are any of these fosdem streams working? [12:50] ah, got one [12:58] Cream of Chicken or Oxtail Soup for lunch? [12:58] chicken [12:58] some crusty fresh rolls [12:58] both good [12:58] oooo, yes [12:58] i have rolls and soup [12:58] great plan [12:58] how were the eggs? [12:59] * TheOpenSourcerer goes off to kill a chicken and smother it in cream then... (Or just open a tin) [12:59] I had a veggie burger [12:59] I feel cheated!! [13:12] eggs! i love eggs [13:27] afternoon [13:43] christel: I took some to the pub for you (wasn't sure if you were coming) but gave them to czajkowski in the end [13:43] oooh [13:43] outrage [13:43] thank you (even if they are now lauras eggs!) [13:43] :D [13:44] AlanBell: my kids had the for tea yesterday [13:44] they loved them and said thank you [13:44] hows the dongle [13:44] (missus) [13:44] my dongle is dangling nicely [13:45] thanks very much for that, it works a treat [13:45] excellent [13:46] I am disappointed that the red 'i' in thinkpad doesn't light up like it does on other lenovo laptops [13:46] the red dot above the i that is [13:46] .. like the Apple logo on Apple laptops? [13:46] no, a tiny dot [13:50] * penguin42 drops his desk phone and finds that a plastic moulding has popped off, inside it's labelled 'T2903A WEDGE ABS CAV1' [13:50] who would have thought there would be so many wedges [13:50] penguin42: well the phone is probably wedge-shaped? [13:51] MartijnVdS: No, it was a wedge that made it rise up more at the back [13:51] What would be the cheapest way to make a temperature, humidity (optional: barometric pressure) sensor with wifi? [13:52] Arduino? Wait for RasPi? [13:52] Some Arduino clone? [13:52] light sensor would also rock [14:06] I think the wifi is the bit that makes it harder [14:06] yes [14:06] That part is optional/can be done later/etc. [14:07] it being upgradeable to use wifi would be cool though [14:07] MartijnVdS: I think there are sensors for everything you want on either i2c or 1-wire and most dev boards will do them [14:07] Hah I got a letter from Virgin "letting me know" that I've been downloading an "unusually large" amount of data recently. [14:08] Ok, I just checked my logs and can kind of see why they sent that letter. [14:08] 673gb transferred in January... [14:08] You still have metered internet? [14:08] OmNomDePlume: You've not downloaded the whole internet have you? [14:08] ISPs in the Netherlands stopped caring about the amount of data you use in 2000 or so [14:08] No, it's unmetered. They just "let you know" for "helpful" reasons. [14:09] I can download whatever I want - I risk being capped to 50% of my speed during peak times i.e. 25Mbit/s between 16:00 and 0:00. [14:09] But I've never been throttled, so I don't know why they sent this letter. [14:10] OmNomDePlume: implied warning that they might check to make sure it was all legal? [14:10] No. [14:11] "it's easy to schedule downloading big files such as movies for after midnight" [14:11] ^from the letter lol [14:12] What's a lightweight chat server I can use? I have tried ejabberd and openfire which both use the XMPP protocol and they don't seem to work. [14:12] They obviously mean schedule your torrents for after midnight. [14:13] cool.. http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10742 [14:13] that's not a bad idea, really. it's more under 'being a good neighbour' [14:14] "This product is controlled for export by the United States. Sending it to other countries may still be possible, but will require additional information prior to shipment." :( [14:15] MartijnVdS: Do you often find yourself in the need of geiger counters? [14:15] penguin42: no, but it's still cool :) [14:15] rofl [14:15] Geiger counters are export controlled? [14:15] OmNomDePlume: not that I know? [14:15] ah by the US [14:15] How retarded. [14:16] It's like controlling exports of petri dishes. [14:16] America is funny sometimes. [14:16] As if Iran couldn't just buy Geiger counters from Russia. [14:16] or make them.. [14:17] I'm so glad I'm not iranian. You know somewhere out there, there's a nerd who looks at things like that, thinks they'd make incredibly nerdy RNGs, and then just sighs [14:27] * penguin42 wonders why - it's not like it's difficult to build a geiger counter is it? [14:35] MartijnVdS: have a look here - a country man of yours http://jeelabs.org [14:36] MartijnVdS: sorry - http://jeelabs.com [14:37] Let it snow! [14:43] * kirrus does not want it to snow [14:43] I had to deice our air-con exaust pipes way too early this morning :) [14:43] s/:)/:(/ [14:48] occupy64k: It is here === BiggerRedS is now known as BigRedS [14:53] having fun BigRedS? [15:00] kirrus: yeah, having fun staying on a wifi net :) [15:08] http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/6817113033/in/photostream/lightbox/ [15:08] \o/ hugin [15:18] MartijnVdS: good job - how many pics? [15:19] danfish: 4 [15:20] I have pictures of a tower, 8 pictures high.. but it doesn't like it [15:20] too much overlap I think [15:20] nice - can't make out any seams - you gotta love open source :) [15:21] danfish: also, gotta love the 'M' setting on my camera ;) [15:21] danfish: and shooting RAW + batch-processing (identical settings) with rawtherapee [15:22] we've got a canon g10 - going to look up optimal settings for snow photography for tomorrow [15:23] (i'm not the best photography person!) [15:25] danfish: does that run CHDK? :) [15:26] http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/G10 [15:26] danfish: you can write LUA scripts for that ;) [15:28] MartijnVdS: wow - never new alternative firmware for my camera [15:29] Boo [15:29] czajkowski: hoh [15:30] danfish: it's not sticky either -- remove battery -> stock firmware back [15:30] danfish: great for not violating warranty ;) [15:30] czajkowski: how's fosdem and do you need a rugby update service? [15:31] I do [15:31] i got france italy [15:31] MartijnVdS:something I've always worried about with my android phone [15:31] any other games on ? [15:31] czajkowski: scotland v england is coming up [15:34] czajkowski: kids not letting me watch normal Tv at the moment, but I can stream you cars 2 ;) [15:36] you need to educate them and show who's boss ;) [15:36] danfish: you need to get them watching the the rugby [15:36] "I pay the license fee. I get to say what's on TV" [15:36] too right [15:36] :) [15:37] czajkowski: they will at 1730! [15:37] I suppose France and Italy don't really matter [15:38] * hamitron sighs [15:38] hamitron: why the sigh? [15:39] france getting the 3 points, puts them over 7 ahead [15:39] :/ [15:40] oh well [15:47] oh ffs [15:47] snow is breaking tv signal [15:47] so you get.. snow? [15:47] at least this digital tv gets a nice clear black screen with a "no signal" message [15:48] snowing now [15:48] little earlier than forecast [15:50] hope it settles [15:50] :) [15:50] 4 inches is a nice amount [15:55] hamitron: wherer are you? [16:02] East Yorkshire [16:27] mooooo [16:34] light sprinkling of snow happening here [16:34] * MartijnVdS gets the tape with christmas music [16:36] daubers: you were doing a support guide or something along those lines a while back, did anything come of that? [16:37] Unhappy weather here. It's raining and it's -2C. So more ice than snow [16:38] the snow has set in proper here [16:39] none here GU14 0/10 #uksnow [16:40] popey: I bet you were hoping to be snowed in so that you could spend the entire weekend on your new laptop [16:42] yes [16:45] AlanBell: http://yfrog.com/es8ropbj [16:49] what is that then czajkowski? [17:05] AlanBell: http://wikiotics.org/en/main_page [17:06] ah, a wiki for cunning linguists [17:09] yup [17:13] Hello everyone :) [17:17] o/ [17:17] How's everyone? Anyone watching the rugby? [17:33] Lots of snow in BA14 [17:33] 6-7/10 [17:34] -6/-11 here, but no snow xD [17:38] 8º here. no snow, no sun, just clouds. winter in ireland looks a lot like summer in ireland :) [17:38] shauno: Meh! [17:39] shauno: Give us our warm air back! [17:39] oh you don't want that [17:39] * penguin42 does [17:40] penguin42: don't take irelands air, it's full of alcohol smell [17:40] warm air that's been chilling out over the atlantic. if you send it to a sub-zero landmass, insta-snow [17:40] Azelphur: you say that like it's a bad thing? [17:40] shauno: We've already got the snow [17:40] shauno: haha [19:02] haha.. comedy sketch show in (in Dutch) -- "What if.." [19:02] - what if bakers were paranoid [19:02] meep [19:03] "What if numbers didn't exist" [19:03] "What if everyone was a civil servant" [19:03] etc. [19:10] "Mario Balotell is performing magic tricks in one of the executive boxes as Fulham prepare to take a corner. I'm not making this up, honest." [19:10] Balotelli is a legend. [19:11] MartijnVdS: like this http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/the-best-of-conspiracy-keanu [19:13] OmNomDePlume: A bit. But acted out :) [19:22] "What if colour-deafness existed" [20:14] python-gamin is broken :( [21:02] !info npm precise [21:02] npm (source: npm): package manager for nodejs. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.2.19-1 (precise), package size 134 kB, installed size 804 kB [21:03] !info npm unstable [21:03] npm (source: npm): package manager for nodejs. In component main, is extra. Version 0.2.19-1 (unstable), package size 140 kB, installed size 804 kB [21:13] whats peoples sky tv reception like, in north oxforshire,?. or is it my sky box? [21:14] Whee, XChat for Windows is funky. In the bad smell sense. [21:14] Just got a letter from Usain Bolt telling me he's upgrading my broadband from 50 to 120Mbit, for free. [21:14] The main window seems to be using some kind of chunkyvision bitmap font [21:15] Yeah, I'm waiting on mine that says he's upgrading me to 60 MBit/s [21:17] "July onwards" eugh [21:17] So like six months. [21:17] April - March [21:18] http://doublespeed.virginmedia.com/?buspart=DoubleSpeeds_Email_1 [21:18] I'm in one of the first areas of the UK to get cable modem networks, they always use us as guinea pigs for new features [21:18] It's such a hardship [21:18] OmNomDePlume: I had a letter from virgin yesterday offering me 50Mb broadband, it'd be good if I was in a cabled area [21:19] You're in Hull, eh? [21:19] Also, Richard Branson has a terrible tan. [21:19] No, just no cable near our house [21:20] That's awful. [21:20] ADSL is an abortion. [21:20] You're lucky if you get half the advertised rate. [21:21] 50.83Mbit/s @ speedtest. This is good. [21:21] * AlanBell suggests OmNomDePlume's metaphor is somewhat inappropriate [21:21] Virgin's customer support is terrible, though. [21:21] Sorry AlanBell. [21:28] Yes, they've been mis-spelling my name as "Andrew" for some years now [21:28] Even after they originally had it right [21:34] what's it supposed to be? [21:34] Adrian [21:36] awilkins: Have you thought about changing your name? It might be easier [21:37] It doesn't bother me ; they only think of me as a direct debit number anyway. I get what I want from them - a bunch of numbers delivered down a copper wire - so really, we only care about numbers. [21:37] And I get to have Baldur's Gate II in 13 minutes, so they are doing their bit. [21:38] If they were printing business cards for me, I might be a little miffed [21:38] awilkins: It must get interesting when they ask for your full name and credit card info etc [21:39] Account number. And I don't pay on CC ; I pay on direct debit [21:39] I know the password, so what do they care.. [22:14] Whoa ; a robot system that uses humans as the robot arm [22:14] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWNuaPE4DTc [22:15] Our robot overlords (http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm) are upon us [22:32] handy [22:34] awilkins: I assume you've seen this exoskeleton the US military has made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qium3iCQZ10 [22:35] well, Raytheon made it, I guess the US military paid for it. [22:42] dwatkins, I've seen that ; I think the point is more that that is a human directing a robot - the picking system in the other video is a robot directing a human [22:43] (to pickthings off the back of some of it's subunits, sure) [22:43] wonder if I can get that working with openerp [22:43] You're essentially a squishy vision processor and robot arm [22:44] * awilkins wonders if OpenERP has applicability to the healthcare arena [22:45] it does [22:45] there is a dentistry module that one of the UK partners is working on [22:45] With all the comments about the NHS needing streamlining recently, I have been wondering if the NHS IT programme (wfor whom I work) should concentrate on eliminating middle management rather than delivering EHR systems [22:47] some bit of the NHS in Lincolnshire is looking at it I believe [22:48] * brobostigon wishes he had never learnt the drums, he is getting more complaints from his dad, than praise, even if just tapping his hand son his legs, :'( [22:48] hands on* [22:50] awilkins: ah yes, taking advantage of our pattern recognition skills [22:50] brobostigon: I get that too, used to find myself tapping on the desk and being stared at by my colleague next to me :) [22:50] and i did it, because i enjoyed it, this doesnt make it enjoyable. [22:51] awilkins: http://medical.sourceforge.net/ this is an openERP fork [22:51] dwatkins: in this case, not just being stared at, but actually being bluntly told to stop, and given grim face. [22:52] oh bah, brobostigon [22:52] I have some ideas about EHR data entry and presentation interfaces that stem from Wave [22:52]