Person987Hi all, I'm trying to install the omap4 extras from TI on my Pandaboard.  I have reached a screen which wants me to agree to the "TI TSPA Object cod Software License Agreement".  It looks like a dialog box made with text graphics and has an <OK> at the bottom.  I can't figure out how to click "OK"  :-)00:27
mythostab and enter?00:29
Person987Lol that works!00:30
pnphiexcuse me03:15
pnphiexcuse me03:18
krosswindzI am trying to build ubuntu oneiric kernel in a armel cross chroot04:23
krosswindzI am unable to build because of the following error: scripts/kconfig/zconf.tab.c:2505:0: internal compiler error: in insert_vi_for_tree, at tree-ssa-structalias.c:274004:23
krosswindzI was wondering if anyone has seen this04:24
mythoshmm... wouldn't it be easier to cross-compile it outside the qemu-environment with CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-gnueabi-?04:33
krosswindzmythos: I thought using a cross chroot I can leave my host environment unmodified04:35
mythosqemu does have some issues if a process needs to much memory (in my experience)04:36
mythosand you can set up a cross-compile-environment inside the chroot ;-)04:36
mythosbut in fact, that was my my first shot/try also... it works, but has it's limits04:40
krosswindzI tried removing -O2 from KBUILD_CFLAGS still no luck :)04:41
mythosyeah, that's the first hit google gives you, if you run in such problems ;-)04:42
mythosi was lucky and it worked with python2.4...04:42
mythosso, you should really try a cross-compilation or a native build04:43
krosswindzI tried a native build04:44
krosswindzI am seeing segfaults04:44
krosswindzI already have the 768MB work around04:44
mythosoh, than your last shot is cross-compilation04:45
krosswindzI am trying to avoid it if possible04:46
krosswindzprobably setup a chroot and cross build inside that04:46
krosswindzwonder how the kernels are built in ports04:47
krosswindzare they cross built or in cross chroot :p04:48
mythosif you are idling long enough, one from canonical's arm-team will surely answer your question04:48
mythosbut, i'think, they said that they use panda-boards to compile their packages04:49
krosswindzthat would take forever04:50
krosswindzcompiling on the pandaboard is so slow04:50
mythoslook at the topic...04:50
krosswindzinteresting if they are building everything on pandaboards04:52
mythosyeah... i have to consider this too...04:58
mythosif they use native builds for everything, maybe i should that too for my projects04:59
krosswindzprobably some of the devs could answer this05:03
mythoskrosswindz, maybe out of context, but that's what i found in the channel history http://pastebin.com/DEcZvhj905:09
krosswindzmythos: guess they are using pandaboards as buildd05:11
mythosi guess so too05:12
krosswindzguess I might switch precise and see if that solves my build issues05:14
mythosgo for it =)05:14
krosswindzwill try armhf if it doesnt work I can always revert back to oneiric05:20
krosswindzshould get a couple of more sd cards :p05:20
mythosif possible, i would use a nfs configuration05:21
mythosmy board is able to load linux via tftp and rootfs via nfs05:22
mythosbut it is a uncommon ti board. i don't have a panda or anything else05:22
mythosmaybe all u-boots can do this...05:23
krosswindzuboots can do it05:26
krosswindzthe x-loader has an option on the pandaboard to boot using tftp05:26
krosswindzI havent tried it though05:26
mythosit is a really neat feature =)05:27
scientes_where can i get debian-installer images for qemu?05:41
mythosscientes_, i think, you are looking for this http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiHowto05:46
scientes_no, found what i needed: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Core05:47
scientes_(if there are arm versions...)05:47
scientes_i am trying to install ubuntu arm in qemu05:47
scientes_to test some software that fails in debian arm and x86_64, but works in ubuntu x86_6405:47
scientes_*debian armel, when compiled from source05:48
mythos"Installing armel to qemu with d-i" <-- but if you found what you are looking for, that's also awesome =)05:48
scientes_hmmmm, actually, emulated compiling is probably too slow05:48
scientes_mythos, yes, but where is the d-i for UBUNTU05:49
scientes_i.e. alternate installer in ubuntu-land05:49
scientes_I guess i will need to use a chroot or something on my arm device05:49
mythosthat was not what you asked for ;-)05:49
scientes_well, this is #ubuntu-arm05:49
infinitymythos: Sure it is.05:49
scientes_i thought it was implied05:49
infinitymythos: debian-installer implies the software, not the distro.05:50
scientes_infinity, precisely05:50
infinityscientes_: http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/precise/main/installer-armel/current/images/linaro-vexpress/netboot/05:50
mythosinfinity, hmm... i'm not sure, if i understood that? so debian-installer ist capable to install ubuntu?05:50
infinityscientes_: Unfortunately, we don't provide vexpress netboot images for armhf yet.  I should put that on my TODO before I forget again.05:51
infinitymythos: debian-installer is the underlying technology for all our installers.05:51
scientes_infinity, which one would be faster for emulation?05:51
scientes_infinity, except liveCD IIRC05:51
infinityscientes_: ubiquity uses d-i components to do all the "real work".05:52
infinityscientes_: (ubiquity being the GUI livecd installer)05:52
scientes_infinity, ahh, now i know05:52
scientes_i though it just copied the image05:52
infinityCopying is the easy part. ;)05:52
scientes_the squashfs image, with cp -a or something05:52
infinityIt copies the squashfs, and then runs all the d-i bits inside the target.05:52
scientes_instead of installing every deb seperately05:52
mythosinfinity, i don't want to argue against it. so i apologize05:53
scientes_fedora is differn't, cause their livecd doesn't support anything but ext405:53
infinitymythos: I suppose you could argue if you wanted. ;)05:53
scientes_as a limitation of the way they are doing it IIRC05:53
mythosinfinity, sure... ;-)05:53
scientes_but on a differn't note: is compiling in qemu going to be horribly slow?05:54
infinityscientes_: Yes.05:54
scientes_and will i have better luck with a chroot on a real, but slow, arm device05:54
infinityscientes_: On the fastest hardware we can get our hands on, qemu barely beats out a pandaboard.05:54
infinityscientes_: And you probably don't have that hardware.05:55
scientes_I have a sheevaplug05:55
scientes_but it has debian wheezy on it05:55
infinityOh, well, the sheeva's not exactly speedy either.05:55
krosswindzinfinity: do you have any suggestion for size of the sd card for building things natively on the pandaboard05:56
scientes_pandaboard at least supports VFP05:56
infinityWait, you can't even run Ubuntu on a sheeva, can you?05:56
infinityIsn't in ARMv5?05:56
scientes_infinity, so which should I try, chroot on sheeva, or qemu?05:56
scientes_oh, your right05:56
scientes_only old version05:56
scientes_it actually ships with some version of ubuntu05:57
scientes_(don't remember cause i replaced it very quickly with debian)05:57
infinitykrosswindz: I recommend a tiny SD card, a netboot image, and installing to a nice external USB drive.05:57
infinitykrosswindz: Honestly, while running from SD makes for cute demos, it's slow, and it kills SD cards.05:57
krosswindzinfinity: true05:57
scientes_infinity, ahhh, its bad to run embedded from SD?05:57
infinityscientes_: Yeah, we used to support v5 for a while, then v6 for a while, but we've been v7-only for ages.05:58
scientes_with or without VFP?05:58
infinityv7 implies vfp.05:58
scientes_so basically armhg05:58
krosswindzinfinity: if I install on to the usb drive I should be able to use the normal USB port right  and not the OTG05:58
infinityOut armel port uses softfp calling conventions (but still uses the vfp unit), and armhf uses hardfp calling conventions.05:59
infinitykrosswindz: Yeah, either of the two normal USB ports.05:59
scientes_why? if armv7 implies VFP?05:59
scientes_you would get 40% better performance on some hardware (armhf info page)05:59
infinityscientes_: Hence the armhf port.06:00
krosswindznice I think thats what I will do then06:00
krosswindzI should have an old 80G sata drive lying around some where06:00
scientes_seems like you should drop the soft float conventions all together06:00
infinityscientes_: armel uses the softfp ABI because that's just the way things were done for compatibility (and sanity) reasons.  Porting everything to the hardfp ABI was some effort.06:00
infinityscientes_: The armel port will likely become unsupported this cycle.06:01
infinityscientes_: We're trying to move the world to armhf.  I've put a lot of work into this. :P06:01
infinitykrosswindz: http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/precise/main/installer-armhf/current/images/omap4/netboot/06:02
infinitykrosswindz: If you just write out one of those images (boot.img-serial or boot.img-fb) to an SD and boot, you should be able to install to an external drive and save a lot of pain.06:02
krosswindzinfinity: thanks for the link06:02
scientes_eek, it seems like testing this software will be a PITA06:02
krosswindzinfinity:  thanks06:03
krosswindzonce I am done installing I dont need the sd card to boot or would I need it still06:03
scientes_maybe i can use the packages i built in debian06:03
infinitykrosswindz: It'll still need an SD card around to flash a bootloader to, so you don't get to go completely SD free (the Panda has no firmware), but reading a bootloader on boot is a heck of a lot better than running your whole OS from the card)06:03
krosswindzI can build natively on the pandaboard06:03
scientes_whats the package for qemu-arm?06:04
scientes_krosswindz, thx, its opencpn.org06:04
infinityscientes_: qemu06:04
scientes_infinity, that just installs qemu-kvm now06:04
mythosapt-file search qemu-arm06:04
infinityscientes_: Or, if you want to do binfmt-misc emulation (which is much less annoying), qemu-user-static06:04
infinityscientes_: Yeah, qemu-kvm should include qemu-system-arm, does it not?06:05
scientes_don't know i was trying to use virt-manager06:05
infinityOh, those may have been split off into qemu-system06:05
infinityAnyhow, qemu system emulation is almost never what you want, unless you're debugging bootloaders.06:06
infinityqemu binfmt emulation is much less annoying.06:06
krosswindzinfinity: are there md5sums for the files around some where06:08
scientes_poof!, my computer randomly rebooted06:09
infinityscientes_: Welcome back.06:09
infinityscientes_: So, as I was saying. ;)06:09
scientes_anyways, no infinity qemu-kvm only has qemu-system-i386 and -x86-6406:09
mythos<mythos> apt-file search qemu-arm06:09
infinityscientes_: Yeah, the others were broken out into qemu-system06:10
scientes_installing now....06:10
infinityscientes_: However, you almost certainly don't want an actual qemu-system, unless you're debugging bootloaders.06:10
scientes_oh ok06:10
scientes_oh yes, there is multiarch !!!!! :):):)06:10
infinityscientes_: If you install qemu-user-static, then you can work with ARM binaries as if they were native.06:10
scientes_I don't see -static, just qemu-user06:11
scientes_but that is OK06:11
mythossearch for qemu-arm-static06:11
scientes_krosswindz, should i just use what i built on my sheevaplug in debian wheezy, or do you want to build opencpn ( opencpn.org ) ?06:12
krosswindzscientes_: I am sorry I guess you there was some miscommunication06:12
infinityscientes_: qemu-user-static definitely exists (and is the required one in this case), I just installed it.06:12
scientes_ahh it does, what is the difference?06:13
scientes_oh, i read the desc, nvm06:13
scientes_wait, no I don't know why06:14
scientes_dpkg --add-architecture armel ? now06:14
infinityscientes_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/829726/ <-- witness the magic.06:14
infinityscientes_: You could do multiarch too, but that gets messy.  Do you really do your builds in your base system, not in chroots?06:15
scientes_oh gotcha, that looks much cleaner06:16
scientes_krosswindz, oh, gotcha06:18
scientes_OK, all this talk about SD cards----so if I launch an embedded device, it is smart to not use a SD root?06:18
infinityscientes_: If you're building an actual embedded device, hopefully that assumes you're taking great pains to make sure you're not doing things like logging to filesystems, etc.06:19
infinityscientes_: If you never write to the card except to update software, SD's a fine choice.06:20
scientes_ok, so all the problems with SD are going to be the same with NAND flash?06:20
infinityscientes_: If you run a general purpose OS on it, and call it "embedded" without making sure you neuter that sort of behaviour, you're going to kill a lot of flash.06:20
scientes_not the FTL?06:20
scientes_*do any come from the FTL?06:20
infinityscientes_: Hrm?06:21
infinityI'm not sure I understand what you're asking.06:21
scientes_flash translation layer---why SD is a block device, not a mtd06:21
infinityYes... But I'm not sure what you're asking about FTLs.06:21
scientes_well is that the source of SD problems?06:21
scientes_or are their problems shared with raw NAND flash?06:22
infinityNo, the source of problems is rewriting flash, full stop.06:22
scientes_ok, that is what i was asking06:22
infinityAnd raw flash is usually worse than something with a decent FTL implementation, cause at least decent FTLs (like those found on SSD disks) do proper wear-leveling.06:22
infinityBut, at the end of the day, excessive writes kill flash, even SSD disks.06:22
scientes_infinity, ubifs does wear-leveling just great06:22
infinitySD cards tend to die much faster than SSDs, though. :P06:23
infinity(I've killed a lot of SD cards working on ARM porting...)06:23
scientes_ahh, very heavy usage06:23
scientes_would you recommend logging to tmpfs?06:23
infinityLogging to a tmpfs is reasonable, sure.  Means you don't get permanence, but it's enough for spot disagnostics.06:23
scientes_is it just the number of writes, or maybe to fast, etc?06:23
infinityMost embedded projects really don't need logs, though.06:24
infinityOr, really shouldn't?06:24
mythosi think, a minimal logging into ram is fine. for the rest a log-server should be used06:24
infinityCause once you sell it to a customer, do you really expect them to be mailing you lofs? ;)06:24
mythosyes i do06:24
infinityscientes_: Speed doesn't really matter, it's just the number of writes, period.  And yeah, logs are the worst culprit right after atime (but sane people always disable atime on flash)06:25
infinitymythos: If every set top box, phone, and smart TV in my parents' house expected them to be "informed and educated" users who filed bug reports with logs, I suspect they'd just stop buying these computers disguised as appliances.06:26
scientes_infinity, what about relatime?06:26
scientes_(mainly for completeness)06:26
mythosinfinity, i have to care about thinclients, so... ;-)06:26
infinityscientes_: I've never seen the point in relatime.06:27
infinityscientes_: But it would fall in betweenish, I suppose.  Much less likely to update, but it's still unnecessary writes for a flash device.06:28
scientes_yeah, go with atime06:28
scientes_i mean noatime06:28
scientes_seems like btrfs might be smarter for a flash device---ugh06:29
scientes_i still hate that ugly FTL06:29
scientes_and would rather just put ubifs on it06:29
infinitymythos: Well, I tend to view thinclients more like "really crappy computers" than appliances, in the enviroments where most people use them.  That said, it would be much nicer if they were appliances.06:29
mythosi don't like them either06:30
mythosbut what shall i say... somehow i have to earn money06:30
infinityAnd back in the days when you could buy X terminals off the shelf from IBM and Wyse, and thin clients were much less fat than they are today, they were very appliancy.06:30
mythos;___; i'm sorry06:31
infinityOddly enough, I think we've almost come full circle.  The full-features "appliance" IBM thin clients I used to work with that did seamless desktop convergence between X11 and WinNT/Metaframe were, if I recall, running StrongARM CPUs.06:33
infinityReally, really slow ones. :P06:33
scientes_infinity, do you use udev in your chroots, or bind mount /dev ?06:33
infinityscientes_: Neither, I just mount devpts.  But if you actually need all the nodes, bindmounting /dev is the sane option, yes.06:33
=== LetoTheII is now known as LetoThe2nd
infinityOh, no.  Wikipedia has educated me.  Those were PPC (first gen) and Pentium (second gen).06:36
scientes_how do i see what breaks a package without installing aptitude?06:36
scientes_nvm, it just printed it out06:36
mythosinfinity, as far as i know is arm rather new for thinclients.... i know a hp armv3-device, but that's it06:39
scientes_mythos, even if it is new, it seems like it would be the way to go in the long run, considering the power consumption06:40
infinitymythos: Yeah, I'm trying to think of why I got confused about that one.  Well, other than the part where it was 15 years ago and I'm old. :P06:40
mythosscientes_, yes, you are right06:41
mythosit is the new hot stuff for citrix and vmware... (lot of work for me... that's why i'm here)06:41
scientes_infinity, oh your right, multiarch wouldn't work because it doesn't include binaries06:43
infinity^-- Memories.06:44
infinityAnd 95 bucks for nostalgia is tempting.06:44
scientes_is there a multiarch way to have the binaries put in a special place, and then you just set your $PATH approiately06:45
scientes_and have binfmtmisc with qemu do the rest?\06:45
infinityscientes_: No.06:45
infinityscientes_: Multiarch pretty much assumes that you don't want the same binary twice. (which is a fair assumption, generally)06:45
mythosinfinity, i have to support the emulator for this device ;-)06:45
scientes_that way you could still use all your installed utilies in the not-chroot, like git, etc06:45
infinityscientes_: Of course, for development, this isn't a big deal, as you usually only need the foreign-arch libraries, not binaries.06:45
infinityscientes_: Still, chroots are much cleaner.06:46
scientes_instead of having to have two terminals open for the chroot :)06:46
krosswindzinfinity: is there a US mirror for ports06:46
scientes_yes, two terminals at once isn't that big of a deal06:46
krosswindzinfinity: netboot gives the otion of only UK06:46
infinitykrosswindz: There may be one or two, but I don't know of any.06:46
krosswindzinfinity: thanks06:46
infinitykrosswindz: The only official ports mirror is ports.ubuntu.com06:46
krosswindzinfinity: ok06:47
infinityscientes_: Yeah, I guess I don't notice how or why it bugs people, because I've always done all my development in chroots, long before I could also do fancy emulated chroots. :)06:47
infinityscientes_: My laptop has pretty much nothing installed in the base system, and each bit of software I work on gets a new clean chroot.06:48
infinity(waste of space, maybe, but it helps maintain sanity)06:48
infinityscientes_: sed -i -e 's/main/main universe restricted multiverse/' /etc/apt/sources.list && apt-get update06:49
scientes_hmm, why don't you use vserver with vhashify then?06:49
scientes_so that all the duplicate files get hardlinked together in a sane way06:49
scientes_which reduces both disk AND ram consumption06:49
scientes_along with security which doesn't exist with chroots06:50
infinitySecurity's a non-issue.06:50
infinityFor my use-case.06:50
scientes_but what about vhashify?06:50
infinityThis is just about not having junk in my base system, and not polluting package builds.06:50
infinityThe de-duping might be neat, but *shrug*... Don't care? ;)06:51
infinityI build and delete chroots several times a day, it's not like they live long.06:51
scientes_are you at least running the ram consolidation thingy designed primarily for KVM?06:51
infinityMy workflow comes from more than a decade of buildd maintenance, it's not "sane" to most people, but it works for me.06:51
scientes_it just scans ram and loops for things that are the same06:51
mythossooo... chroot is a "good enough"-solution :o06:52
infinityRAM consolodation doesn't matter, I'm not running long-running processes in these chroots.06:52
infinityBuild, compile, wipe.06:52
scientes_http://paste.ubuntu.com/829746/ <----help06:52
infinityscientes_: sed -i -e 's/main/main universe multiverse/' /etc/apt/sources.list && apt-get update06:52
infinity^-- I did.06:53
scientes_infinity, ahh, yes universe needs to be on, thx06:53
scientes_no multiverse thxuverymuch however06:53
infinityYou shouldn't need restricted either, but you have it on.06:54
infinity(If you're trying to avoid non-free software sneaking up and biting you in your sleep)06:54
scientes_that was just the default for the ubuntu core tar.gz06:54
infinityYeah.  I should revisit that.06:55
infinityI picked "main restricted" pretty arbitrarily when I first put core together, just based on the fact that it used to be our default in, like, dapper?06:55
scientes_what is the default now?06:56
infinityI sometimes live in the past.06:56
infinityThe default now is, I believe, all 4 components enabled after install.  But I'm not positive of that either, I'd have to install a fresh Ubuntu. :P06:56
scientes_definitely not06:56
scientes_it just feels like that the way software-center works by default06:57
infinityYeah, maybe.06:57
infinityPerhaps the default is still "main restricted", or possibly just "main".06:57
infinityI'm too lazy to dig through code right now.06:57
infinityPlus, "default" depends on how you install.  Keeping those things in sync is annoying.06:57
scientes_infinity, I think you should just enable main06:58
scientes_oh wait, its not just armel06:58
infinityIt's all arches.06:58
scientes_i was thinking that the hardware that gets restricted put on default is not present with arm06:58
infinityBut, that said, people shouldn't need fancy binary opengl drivers in a minimal chroot.06:59
infinityAnd if they do, they can edit sources.list. :P06:59
scientes_^^ precisely06:59
scientes_so just put it main, and be done with it06:59
infinityWell, I was tossing around the idea of going the other way too.06:59
infinitySince people constantly say "I tried to install $foo and it's not found, is ubuntu-core crap somehow?"06:59
infinityOr "is this built on ARM?!"07:00
scientes_i havn't looked for a while but it seemed like ubuntu was shipping some pretty schetchy stuff in multiverse07:00
infinityWhen the answer is, invariably, "enable universe".07:00
scientes_compared to debian's non-free being pretty reasonable when i looked at it07:00
infinityscientes_: Well, multiverse is just the non-free component of universe.  So, sure.  I guess that's sketchy on top of sketchy. :)07:00
infinityBut it's not like enabling it forces people to install things from it.07:00
scientes_infinity, but it was bigger than debian's non-free07:00
krosswindzinfinity: I am installing precise on an usb hard drive, I dont need a separate boot partition on it since that will come from the SD card right?07:01
infinityAnd we don't allow dependencies from main to universe or from universe to multiverse, so...07:01
infinitykrosswindz: Right.07:01
scientes_debian was like: nasa worldwind (open source, but bad license), xtides-data-nonfree (asshole govmnts), and hardware support07:01
infinityscientes_: Debian has, historically, been kinder to their mirrors with regard to non-free.07:01
infinityscientes_: If something was widely non-redistributable in, say, several EU countries, or the US, or whatever, they wouldn't carry it.07:02
infinityscientes_: multiverse, we just say "look, it's hosted in the UK, mirrors don't have to mirror it, if they do, we assume they've read the licenses, HTH, HAND".07:02
scientes_it drives me nuts how governments, that need good map data in order to do taxes, etc, double charge their citizens07:02
scientes_the US is like the only sane country in this regard07:03
infinityscientes_: Yeah, well.  The US and software sanity is a sore topic for Debian too.  It took us FOREVER to get rid of the stupid "non-US" split for crypto. :(07:03
scientes_the NSA managed to hold back encryption for 10 years with that stupid shit07:04
StevenKAnd even then it involved something like 850 pages being sent to the US government.07:04
StevenKBy hand.07:04
scientes_also: software patents07:04
infinityStevenK: Yeah, it was tons of special.07:04
infinityStevenK: I haven't kept up, do you know if Debian's finally managed to obtain a blanket waiver, or if ftpmaster is still automating an e-mail to the US govt for every NEW package?07:05
StevenKI think its the latter.07:05
infinityRidiculous. ;)07:05
scientes_infinity, what percentage of packages correctly cross-compile?07:08
infinityscientes_: Like xdeb, cross-build the package style?  Probably a much lower number than  you'd like.07:09
infinityscientes_: Building natively (or "natively" under emulation) is still the way to go.07:09
scientes_yeah, i just assumed that I should default to natively07:09
infinityWe've been working on improving the numbers for cross support for specific dependency chains.07:10
scientes_sure the kernel can do it, but not much else07:10
scientes_are there any list of what chains work?07:10
infinityBut, personally, I think it's wasted effort.  ARM hardware is getting faster every day and, while I appreciate that people are spoiled and all, if I can build the entire armhf archive in ~15 days, it's not "slow".07:10
scientes_it supposedly fixes alot of bugs to get cross-compile working07:11
infinityscientes_: Not sure how far that's gone.  It was mostly being done by Linaro folks, IIRC.  I'll be at Linaro Connect in, like, 2 days though, and I think we have a catch-up session on it. :P07:11
infinityscientes_: Err, what?  How would cross-compiling fix bugs?07:11
infinityscientes_: That sounds a whole like like misinformation.07:11
infinitys/a whole/a whole lot/07:11
scientes_probably is, only read it once07:11
scientes_some random comment on lwn or something07:12
infinityAt best, cross-compiling will provide you with binary-identical output, at worst, the cross version will be horribly broken compared to the native.07:12
infinityI can think of any scenario where it would be better. :)07:12
scientes_I built the linux kernel with distcc on x86_64 and arm at the same time, and it booted!07:12
infinityIn general, cross should get you binary-identical output these days.  GCC and binutils are much saner than they used to be.07:13
infinityThere's always a but.07:13
infinityAnd the buts never favour the cross environment.07:13
krosswindzinfinity: what about cross chroot using qemu07:13
infinitykrosswindz: That's essentially "native", for the purpose of this discussion.07:13
scientes_cross-compiling is much faster07:14
scientes_emulation is not07:14
scientes_but I was definitely impressed with i could use distcc with arm and x86_64 cross at the same time, and boot what came out07:14
scientes_infinity, oh geeze, you should have put no-install-recommend in the core.....07:15
scientes_oh wait, i guess it did that07:16
scientes_just alot of stuff07:16
infinityscientes_: You can specify it on the command line.07:19
scientes_i know that, i thought it was installing a bunch of worthless stuff, but i scrolled up, and it listed the recommends sep, which IIRC means it didn't install them07:20
infinityI type "apt-get --no-install-recommends --purge install $foo" so often that it's muscle memory. :P07:20
infinityscientes_: No, it lists them even if they're also in the install list.  If you didn't specify it, you got recommends.  It's our default.07:20
scientes_ahh ok, tons of worthless stuff07:21
scientes_as i suspenected07:21
scientes_it was alrady installing when i was like O shi... i forgot07:21
infinityHeh.  Oh well, not world-ending. :P07:21
infinityThe only place where we actually have no-install-recommends in the apt config is our buildd chroots.07:22
infinityFor obvious reasons.07:22
scientes_i have added it to apt.conf.d so many times.....07:22
scientes_I also forgot to use my apt-cacher-ng.....07:22
krosswindzinfinity: I was trying to install using net boot to USB drive07:22
krosswindzkernel fails to install07:23
krosswindzany way to check the log over serial console?07:23
infinitykrosswindz: Weird.  It definitely shouldn't.07:23
infinitykrosswindz: It logs to syslog.07:23
infinitykrosswindz: But I'm about to head out.  You might try poking GrueMaster tomorrow about it, he netinstalls all day, every day.07:23
krosswindzlol k07:24
krosswindzif I want to check syslog07:24
krosswindzis there any way over serial console07:24
krosswindzI would have to quit installer right?07:24
infinityIf you're still in d-i, you can hit any "go back" button, and then scroll down to "start a terminal"07:25
infinityOr "spawn a shell" or something like that.  I forget the exact wording.07:25
scientes_or just switch to another virtual console with ctrl-shift...(if not on serial console)07:25
krosswindzlet me check that07:26
infinityAnyhow.  I'm heading out.  Good luck.07:26
scientes_ctrl-shift-f1, f207:26
infinityscientes_: Yeah, he's on serial.07:26
krosswindzinfinity: thanks for the help07:26
infinitykrosswindz: It could just be something as simple as the d-i images being out of sync with the archive or something.  We're all back to work on Monday, if you find actual bugs we should fix. :P07:27
krosswindzscientes_: I am on serial console so no virtual terminals07:27
infinitykrosswindz: But I suspect GrueMaster can help you tomorrow.  He's often around and bored.07:27
krosswindzinfinity: I will pick on him tomorrow if he is around when I am on07:27
scientes_krosswindz, you can see i realized that above07:27
krosswindzscientes_: sorry tryin to multi task  between my laptop and the serial console :p07:28
scientes_krosswindz, what device is this?07:29
krosswindzscientes_: pandaboard07:29
krosswindzscientes_: got it like 2 weeks back07:30
krosswindzscientes_: had to wait till this week because my serial cable wasnt working07:30
=== Jack87|Away is now known as Jack87
krosswindzscientes_: yeah07:31
scientes_I'm looking at getting a cubox/d2plug---just ordered a mino 720 USB-*only* touchscreen for my sheevaplug07:32
scientes_you should check out the rasperry pi07:34
scientes_$25/ $3507:34
krosswindzscientes_: yeah I have looked at it07:35
scientes_wont run ubuntu however, only debian armel07:35
krosswindzscientes_: I wish it had an otg port07:35
scientes_what is otg?07:35
krosswindzscientes_: I got the panda because I wanted a USB otg port07:35
krosswindzUSB port that can behave either like usb slave or usb host07:35
scientes_hmm, reading the wikipedia page is a bit overwhelming07:36
scientes_the cubox/d2plug has a cdc enabled hdmi port07:37
scientes_so that the remote of a cdc hdmi TV can control the computer07:37
scientes_and visa-versa07:37
krosswindzscientes_: cool07:38
krosswindzscientes_: you can use it as media player then07:38
scientes_IIRC they can even power on each-other07:39
gildeandidn't newest hdmi-version include stuff like ethernet in there too?07:41
gildeanthe standard that is, not the devices you're talking about07:41
scientes_display port is suppose to supplant hdmi......07:42
krosswindzgildean: scientes_ display port doesnt have cec07:43
scientes_gildean, I really don't know, but i am sure it would be on the wikipedia page07:43
krosswindzgildean: yeah hdmi 1.4 also has ethernet07:43
scientes_hdmi is everything07:43
scientes_including evil DRM07:44
scientes_HEC Data+ (Optional, HDMI 1.4+ with Ethernet)07:44
scientes_geeze, compressed and decompressed07:45
krosswindzweird I am getting host unresolved for ports.ubuntu.com when the rest of the packages are downloaded from it07:46
krosswindzcompletely weird07:46
scientes_krosswindz, its downloading those packages in the chroot07:46
scientes_of /target07:46
krosswindzscientes_: yeah07:46
scientes_so its a differn't resolv.conf07:46
krosswindzprobably the netboot installer is broken07:47
krosswindzlet me try an older version of the netboot installer07:47
scientes_just the kernel install?07:48
scientes_well, i don't have that hardware, on the sheevaplug, i have to-date managed the kernel seperately07:48
krosswindzyeah just the kernel install07:49
scientes_even though there is (now, not when i first installed) a linux-image-kirkwood package07:49
scientes_oh wait, its cause I wanted to install to the NAND flash, rather than a SD card07:50
scientes_how many writes do you get on flash before it peels over?07:50
krosswindznot sure07:51
krosswindztypically these days 100K write cycles07:51
krosswindznot sure07:52
krosswindz100K is for flash media07:52
krosswindzmay be nand has significantly less07:52
scientes_it seems that turning of compression in logrotate really isn't supported07:52
scientes_i get syslog, syslog.1, syslog.1.gz, syslog.2, syslog2.gz07:53
scientes_its a mess07:53
scientes_cause ubifs already has zlib compression so it is pointless07:53
scientes_especially cause it cause another write, cause it changes the file rather than just rename it07:54
scientes_^^^^gcc error08:22
scientes_gcc claims it has a bug08:24
scientes_/home/build/opencpn/plugins/grib_pi/src/grib.cpp:2193:1: internal compiler error: Segmentation fault08:24
krosswindzis this on native08:29
krosswindzor cross build08:29
krosswindzcalling it quits for tonight08:30
scientes_this is on qemu08:30
scientes_the next line after ctrl-c was "The bug is not reproducible, so it is likely a hardware or OS problem.08:31
scientes_so i posted it to #qemu on irc.oftc08:31
scientes_neways good night08:31
scientes_hmm, didn't put that out a second time---could just be cause the place where i ctrl-c'ed08:46
morphisinfinity: ping10:33
lilsteviekrosswindz, given NAND is usually what SDCards are made of it should be the same11:54
=== Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan
Person987Two questions: I'm a noob to pandaboard and I have ubuntu working nicely on an 8gig SD card now.  Is there a way I can duplicate this SD card so I have a backup of the entire "system"17:48
Person987Second, can I copy it to a USB thumb drive and run off of that?17:49
mythosPerson987, dd if=<sdcard-device> | gzip > backup.gz17:53
mythosrestore the card: zcat backup.gz > <sdcard-device>17:54
mythos<sdcard-device> is something like /dev/mmc...17:55
mythossearch for it with fdisk -l17:56
pr_oci have been fighting with ubuntu on my gumstix/overo earth for a few days now, so any help is appreciated.  Currently i'm stuck on getting any USB wifi card to work.  I keep running into walls trying to build the manufacturer drivers, and am almost out of space on my 2gb SD card.  what kernel should i be running?18:44
dioxin__pr_oc: I made progress when I used the 12.04 dev build18:55
pr_ochow did you build your initial root filesystem?18:56
pr_oci've found a bunch of different procedures18:56
pr_occhances are i choose poorly, because i'm missing just about every troubleshooting utility.  i'm now running out of space because of all the apt-gets i've done :-)18:56
dioxin__I'm using a Pandaboard with 8 or 16Gb SD cards18:57
dioxin__so I'm hitting a space issue18:57
dioxin__I'm NOT*18:57
pr_ocyeah just saw those boards18:58
pr_ocmakes me wish i could swap this gumstix setup for that18:58
dioxin__I'm building my initial fs system using the images off the Pandaboard wiki18:58
dioxin__if you have a 2nd system, maybe you could download the vmlinuz and initrg.img + the modules directory and just copy them onto the gumtix SD card18:59
dioxin__(its kinda what I've done to get round an issue I had19:00
pr_oci might end up doing that19:00
pr_oci'm so close to my goal that i'd hate to start over19:00
carli2I have a omap3 beagleboard19:10
carli2with the 11.10 release, usb mouse and keyboard did not work19:10
carli2is that issue known?19:10
=== rsalveti is now known as rsalveti_
krosswindzGrueMaster: are you around?21:01
krosswindzGrueMaster: infinity asked me to pick your brain21:01
krosswindzGrueMaster: I am having trouble with the netboot image21:01
krosswindzGrueMaster: I am trying to install precise on an external usb drive21:01
GrueMasterYea, there is a bug, we think in resolfconf21:02
krosswindzGrueMaster: when it goes to install the kernel I get an error at that time only for the kernel unable to resolve21:02
krosswindzGrueMaster: any work around21:02
krosswindzGrueMaster: does the oneiric netboot work?21:03
GrueMasterThe only workaround I have is to pull up the install log, and look for the apt-get install  line just before the failure.  It will be a "can't resolv <mirror>" error.21:03
GrueMasterThen you can chroot target /bin/bash and atp-get install the packages manually.21:03
krosswindzGrueMaster: yes ports.ubuntu.com21:03
GrueMasterOneiric should still work.21:04
krosswindzGrueMaster: Oneiric would be armel, would there be any way I can upgrade from Oneiric armel to Precise armhf then21:04
GrueMasterNot that I know of.21:04
krosswindzGrueMaster: you suggest I use the fb image then and not serial console21:05
GrueMasterThe preinstalled images should still work, but they are more of a challenge to get installed on usb.  It is doable, just difficult.21:05
krosswindzGrueMaster: netboot would be easier using fb image then21:06
krosswindzGrueMaster: after I chroot and install the kernel I can continue with the installers next step right?21:06
GrueMasterThat would be irrelevant.  resolvconf isbroken during install.21:07
GrueMasteryes, but you will still need to bounce back into the chroot to manually pull packages.21:07
GrueMasterIt is doable.  I did it.  It just  takes a while.21:08
krosswindzdoes the external usb install use any special uboot image21:08
krosswindzI was wondering if I could install on the sd card then copy over the root filesystem and modify the boot.script and change it to boot from USB21:09
GrueMasterThat's what I did prior to netboot support.21:10
krosswindzthat should work then21:10
GrueMasterI "may" have a temporary solution.  Trying it now.  Give me a few minutes.21:10
krosswindzI will be around21:10
GrueMasterYEA!   Success!21:18
GrueMasterOk,here's the steps:21:18
krosswindzaweomse, can I try it :p21:18
GrueMasterselect "execute shell"21:19
GrueMasterchroot target /bin/bash21:19
GrueMasterdpkg --force-all --remove resolvconf # ignore errors21:19
GrueMasterapt-get install resolvconf # ignore errors21:20
GrueMasterexit back to menu21:20
GrueMasterrun select software (default selection from where it left off).21:20
krosswindzthats its?21:21
krosswindzI just fired the netboot again21:21
krosswindzwill report back in a bit21:21
dioxinWith the Ubuntu Server images (11.10) what is the effect of the various Live CD options from the install options?21:22
GrueMasterdioxin: ???21:23
GrueMasterWe only have preinstalled images for arm.21:23
dioxinGrueMaster: I've done the 11.10 server image, and I'm at the "Choose software to install" stage21:24
dioxinI get options for different live CD's21:24
GrueMasterOh, that.  I don't know what the live cd selections are.21:24
dioxinok, well here goes nothing ;)21:25
krosswindzGrueMaster: does precise also need the 72 MiB fat32 partition that is not mounted but has the boot flag on?21:26
GrueMasterThat is on SD, right?  That is where u-boot boots from.  Keep it.21:27
krosswindzGrueMaster: on the USB drive21:27
GrueMasterInteresting.  I've never seen that on Panda.21:28
GrueMasterBut then I use a preseed.21:28
krosswindzdioxin: I remember seeing that as well it is before the actual install starts21:29
krosswindzdioxin: I think I chose the first option which was to install a base system I dont remember21:29
dioxinpreviously I've chosen Base-Server-Install and OpenSSH and its worked21:30
dioxinI'm now trying lubuntu live cd option as well21:30
krosswindzI am not sure what it does21:33
krosswindzGrueMaster: the size of fat32 partition on SD card is 32M, I think thats what is the size in netboot image21:34
krosswindzGrueMaster: should I resize it once the install is done?21:34
GrueMasterNah, that sould be enough.21:34
GrueMasterIt only needs to hold MLO, u-boot.bin, and backups of uImage, uInitrd, and boot.scr21:35
krosswindzGrueMaster: thanks21:35
krosswindzGrueMaster: its installing the base system now, my net connection is slow atm because its sunday and everyone in my apt complex is at home21:36
GrueMasterHeh.  Understand.21:37
GrueMasterThat's why I have my own mirror at home.21:37
dioxinhow big is the repository? it is feasible to mirror it at home?21:41
GrueMasterNot too big if you only pull armhf.  I have all of arm (no sources) and it is ~350G (I think, haven'tchecked my server lately).21:42
GrueMasterThat is all of arm (armel, armhf) and also contains all pools (main, restricted, multiverse, universe).21:43
dioxinincluding 10.10 through to 12.04?21:43
GrueMasterYes.  Actually, it appears to be 255G on my mirror.21:45
GrueMaster(I also have all images since UDS - that's why I thought it was more).21:45
dioxinI've got a spare ATOM box with a 1 TB drive attached... hmmm ;)21:46
dioxin(and luckily I've a 100 meg internet connection ;)21:46
dioxindoes Ubuntu Support Beagle Bone as well?21:47
GrueMasterI use ubumirror to do the mirroring.  Ubuports (the script that mirrors ports.ubuntu.com) runs every 2 hours.21:47
GrueMasterI think so.  I don't have one to try.21:47
dioxinI get one Tuesday I think21:47
GrueMasterIf it boots the same as the beagexm, it will just work.21:49
krosswindzmoment of truth21:49
krosswindzGrueMaster: its redoing the basesystem install21:50
dioxinI might have to pick your brains in a couple of days on how to do the repo mirror21:50
GrueMasterkrosswindz: that is normal.21:50
krosswindzdioxin: check apt-mirror21:50
GrueMasterdioxin: I'll pastebin my ubumirror.conf when you are ready.21:50
krosswindzGrueMaster: awesome its asking me to chose the kernel this time21:51
dioxinI need to reinstall the ATOM as well along with recieve the board and other toys :D21:51
krosswindzi select linux-omap421:51
GrueMasterkrosswindz: apt-mirror doesn't get the udebs and other stuff needed for netboot.21:51
krosswindzGrueMaster: aah ok21:51
krosswindzGrueMaster: It installed the kernel, thanks for the help :p21:51
GrueMasterkrosswindz: The kernel questions are a good sign.21:51
krosswindzGrueMaster: its configuring apt now21:52
dioxinGrueMaster: is it possible to build the entire ubuntu from source?21:52
krosswindzGrueMaster: does precise kernel still have the 1G issue where compiler segfaults?21:52
GrueMasteryes, but it takes a long time.21:52
krosswindzGrueMaster: I want to build stuff natively21:53
GrueMasterkrosswindz: No, that was fixed.21:53
dioxinis compiling i/o or computation intensive?21:54
GrueMasterWe are in the process of rebuilding the pool.  I think it will take a week or two with a pool of pandas.21:54
krosswindzdioxin: both21:54
GrueMasterdioxin: Both.  The Panda is the fastest we currently have, but IO is slow.21:54
dioxinhow many Panda in the pool?21:55
GrueMasterWe hope to get some 4 core arm servers soon, but they probably won't be building until well into 12.10.21:55
GrueMasterNot sure.  16 I think.21:55
GrueMasterIt takes something like 12 hours to build libreOffice.21:56
krosswindzwow on the pool of pandas or just one?21:58
krosswindzquad core arms are they omaps or tegra?21:58
GrueMasterJust one.   We don't use distcc21:58
GrueMasterTegra 3 is 5 core, but they are limited availability.21:59
GrueMasterNot sure what omap5 will be or when it comes out.21:59
GrueMasterCalxeda is the exiting one. Check out their announcement.21:59
krosswindzI read omap5 would be quad core22:00
krosswindzwith like 2GHz core22:00
GrueMasterthat will be cool.22:00
krosswindzlet me try to find that article22:01
krosswindzcortex a1522:03
krosswindzGrueMaster: installation complete rebooting now22:03
GrueMasterDouble cool.  A15 will support kvm.22:03
GrueMasterkrosswindz: Excellent!22:03
krosswindzGrueMaster: I have login prompt over serial console22:04
krosswindzGrueMaster: thanks a lot for your help22:04
GrueMasterglad I could help.  Hopefully this willbe fixed next week.22:05
krosswindzGrueMaster: I can for now get rid of all the archive.ubuntu.com entries from sources.list right22:06
krosswindzand security.ubuntu.com as well?22:06
GrueMasterYes, unless you want to install a source package.22:06
krosswindzI will install linux source for recompiling it22:07
GrueMastersecurity.ubuntu.com is a bug.  All updates are on ports.ubuntu.com22:07
GrueMasterI have to run.  Need to get ready for superbowl.22:08
=== rsalveti` is now known as rsalveti
krosswindzGrueMaster: you around?23:11
krosswindzaah now I see you are off to watch superbowl23:11

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