[00:27] <Person987> Hi all, I'm trying to install the omap4 extras from TI on my Pandaboard.  I have reached a screen which wants me to agree to the "TI TSPA Object cod Software License Agreement".  It looks like a dialog box made with text graphics and has an <OK> at the bottom.  I can't figure out how to click "OK"  :-)
[00:29] <mythos> tab and enter?
[00:30] <Person987> Lol that works!
[00:30] <mythos> np
[03:14] <pnphi> joined
[03:15] <pnphi> excuse me
[03:18] <pnphi> excuse me
[04:23] <krosswindz> I am trying to build ubuntu oneiric kernel in a armel cross chroot
[04:23] <krosswindz> I am unable to build because of the following error: scripts/kconfig/zconf.tab.c:2505:0: internal compiler error: in insert_vi_for_tree, at tree-ssa-structalias.c:2740
[04:24] <krosswindz> I was wondering if anyone has seen this
[04:33] <mythos> hmm... wouldn't it be easier to cross-compile it outside the qemu-environment with CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux-gnueabi-?
[04:35] <krosswindz> mythos: I thought using a cross chroot I can leave my host environment unmodified
[04:36] <mythos> qemu does have some issues if a process needs to much memory (in my experience)
[04:36] <krosswindz> hmm
[04:36] <mythos> and you can set up a cross-compile-environment inside the chroot ;-)
[04:37] <krosswindz> ;)
[04:40] <mythos> but in fact, that was my my first shot/try also... it works, but has it's limits
[04:41] <krosswindz> ok
[04:41] <krosswindz> I tried removing -O2 from KBUILD_CFLAGS still no luck :)
[04:41] <krosswindz> s/)/(/
[04:42] <mythos> yeah, that's the first hit google gives you, if you run in such problems ;-)
[04:42] <mythos> i was lucky and it worked with python2.4...
[04:43] <mythos> so, you should really try a cross-compilation or a native build
[04:44] <krosswindz> I tried a native build
[04:44] <krosswindz> I am seeing segfaults
[04:44] <krosswindz> I already have the 768MB work around
[04:44] <krosswindz> http://pastebin.com/pmSbm4pd
[04:45] <mythos> oh, than your last shot is cross-compilation
[04:46] <mythos> *then
[04:46] <krosswindz> I am trying to avoid it if possible
[04:46] <krosswindz> probably setup a chroot and cross build inside that
[04:47] <krosswindz> wonder how the kernels are built in ports
[04:48] <krosswindz> are they cross built or in cross chroot :p
[04:48] <mythos> if you are idling long enough, one from canonical's arm-team will surely answer your question
[04:49] <mythos> but, i'think, they said that they use panda-boards to compile their packages
[04:50] <krosswindz> that would take forever
[04:50] <krosswindz> compiling on the pandaboard is so slow
[04:50] <mythos> look at the topic...
[04:52] <krosswindz> interesting if they are building everything on pandaboards
[04:58] <mythos> yeah... i have to consider this too...
[04:59] <mythos> if they use native builds for everything, maybe i should that too for my projects
[05:03] <krosswindz> probably some of the devs could answer this
[05:09] <mythos> krosswindz, maybe out of context, but that's what i found in the channel history http://pastebin.com/DEcZvhj9
[05:11] <krosswindz> mythos: guess they are using pandaboards as buildd
[05:12] <mythos> i guess so too
[05:14] <krosswindz> guess I might switch precise and see if that solves my build issues
[05:14] <mythos> go for it =)
[05:20] <krosswindz> will try armhf if it doesnt work I can always revert back to oneiric
[05:20] <krosswindz> should get a couple of more sd cards :p
[05:21] <mythos> if possible, i would use a nfs configuration
[05:22] <mythos> my board is able to load linux via tftp and rootfs via nfs
[05:22] <mythos> but it is a uncommon ti board. i don't have a panda or anything else
[05:23] <mythos> maybe all u-boots can do this...
[05:26] <krosswindz> uboots can do it
[05:26] <krosswindz> the x-loader has an option on the pandaboard to boot using tftp
[05:26] <krosswindz> I havent tried it though
[05:27] <mythos> it is a really neat feature =)
[05:41] <scientes_> where can i get debian-installer images for qemu?
[05:46] <mythos> scientes_, i think, you are looking for this http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiHowto
[05:47] <scientes_> no, found what i needed: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Core
[05:47] <scientes_> (if there are arm versions...)
[05:47] <scientes_> i am trying to install ubuntu arm in qemu
[05:47] <scientes_> to test some software that fails in debian arm and x86_64, but works in ubuntu x86_64
[05:48] <scientes_> *debian armel, when compiled from source
[05:48] <mythos> "Installing armel to qemu with d-i" <-- but if you found what you are looking for, that's also awesome =)
[05:48] <scientes_> hmmmm, actually, emulated compiling is probably too slow
[05:49] <scientes_> mythos, yes, but where is the d-i for UBUNTU
[05:49] <scientes_> i.e. alternate installer in ubuntu-land
[05:49] <scientes_> I guess i will need to use a chroot or something on my arm device
[05:49] <mythos> that was not what you asked for ;-)
[05:49] <scientes_> well, this is #ubuntu-arm
[05:49] <infinity> mythos: Sure it is.
[05:49] <scientes_> i thought it was implied
[05:50] <infinity> mythos: debian-installer implies the software, not the distro.
[05:50] <scientes_> infinity, precisely
[05:50] <infinity> scientes_: http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/precise/main/installer-armel/current/images/linaro-vexpress/netboot/
[05:50] <mythos> infinity, hmm... i'm not sure, if i understood that? so debian-installer ist capable to install ubuntu?
[05:51] <infinity> scientes_: Unfortunately, we don't provide vexpress netboot images for armhf yet.  I should put that on my TODO before I forget again.
[05:51] <infinity> mythos: debian-installer is the underlying technology for all our installers.
[05:51] <scientes_> infinity, which one would be faster for emulation?
[05:51] <scientes_> infinity, except liveCD IIRC
[05:52] <infinity> scientes_: ubiquity uses d-i components to do all the "real work".
[05:52] <infinity> scientes_: (ubiquity being the GUI livecd installer)
[05:52] <scientes_> infinity, ahh, now i know
[05:52] <scientes_> i though it just copied the image
[05:52] <infinity> Copying is the easy part. ;)
[05:52] <infinity> (ish)
[05:52] <scientes_> the squashfs image, with cp -a or something
[05:52] <infinity> It copies the squashfs, and then runs all the d-i bits inside the target.
[05:52] <scientes_> instead of installing every deb seperately
[05:53] <mythos> infinity, i don't want to argue against it. so i apologize
[05:53] <scientes_> fedora is differn't, cause their livecd doesn't support anything but ext4
[05:53] <infinity> mythos: I suppose you could argue if you wanted. ;)
[05:53] <scientes_> as a limitation of the way they are doing it IIRC
[05:53] <mythos> infinity, sure... ;-)
[05:54] <scientes_> but on a differn't note: is compiling in qemu going to be horribly slow?
[05:54] <infinity> scientes_: Yes.
[05:54] <scientes_> and will i have better luck with a chroot on a real, but slow, arm device
[05:54] <infinity> scientes_: On the fastest hardware we can get our hands on, qemu barely beats out a pandaboard.
[05:55] <infinity> scientes_: And you probably don't have that hardware.
[05:55] <scientes_> I have a sheevaplug
[05:55] <scientes_> but it has debian wheezy on it
[05:55] <infinity> Oh, well, the sheeva's not exactly speedy either.
[05:56] <krosswindz> infinity: do you have any suggestion for size of the sd card for building things natively on the pandaboard
[05:56] <scientes_> pandaboard at least supports VFP
[05:56] <infinity> Wait, you can't even run Ubuntu on a sheeva, can you?
[05:56] <infinity> Isn't in ARMv5?
[05:56] <scientes_> infinity, so which should I try, chroot on sheeva, or qemu?
[05:56] <scientes_> oh, your right
[05:56] <infinity> s/in/it/
[05:56] <scientes_> only old version
[05:57] <scientes_> it actually ships with some version of ubuntu
[05:57] <scientes_> (don't remember cause i replaced it very quickly with debian)
[05:57] <infinity> krosswindz: I recommend a tiny SD card, a netboot image, and installing to a nice external USB drive.
[05:57] <infinity> krosswindz: Honestly, while running from SD makes for cute demos, it's slow, and it kills SD cards.
[05:57] <krosswindz> infinity: true
[05:57] <scientes_> infinity, ahhh, its bad to run embedded from SD?
[05:58] <infinity> scientes_: Yeah, we used to support v5 for a while, then v6 for a while, but we've been v7-only for ages.
[05:58] <scientes_> with or without VFP?
[05:58] <infinity> v7 implies vfp.
[05:58] <scientes_> so basically armhg
[05:58] <scientes_> *armhf
[05:58] <krosswindz> infinity: if I install on to the usb drive I should be able to use the normal USB port right  and not the OTG
[05:59] <infinity> Out armel port uses softfp calling conventions (but still uses the vfp unit), and armhf uses hardfp calling conventions.
[05:59] <infinity> krosswindz: Yeah, either of the two normal USB ports.
[05:59] <scientes_> why? if armv7 implies VFP?
[05:59] <scientes_> you would get 40% better performance on some hardware (armhf info page)
[06:00] <infinity> scientes_: Hence the armhf port.
[06:00] <krosswindz> nice I think thats what I will do then
[06:00] <krosswindz> I should have an old 80G sata drive lying around some where
[06:00] <scientes_> seems like you should drop the soft float conventions all together
[06:00] <infinity> scientes_: armel uses the softfp ABI because that's just the way things were done for compatibility (and sanity) reasons.  Porting everything to the hardfp ABI was some effort.
[06:01] <infinity> scientes_: The armel port will likely become unsupported this cycle.
[06:01] <scientes_> gotcha
[06:01] <infinity> scientes_: We're trying to move the world to armhf.  I've put a lot of work into this. :P
[06:02] <infinity> krosswindz: http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/precise/main/installer-armhf/current/images/omap4/netboot/
[06:02] <infinity> krosswindz: If you just write out one of those images (boot.img-serial or boot.img-fb) to an SD and boot, you should be able to install to an external drive and save a lot of pain.
[06:02] <krosswindz> infinity: thanks for the link
[06:02] <scientes_> eek, it seems like testing this software will be a PITA
[06:03] <krosswindz> infinity:  thanks
[06:03] <krosswindz> once I am done installing I dont need the sd card to boot or would I need it still
[06:03] <scientes_> maybe i can use the packages i built in debian
[06:03] <infinity> krosswindz: It'll still need an SD card around to flash a bootloader to, so you don't get to go completely SD free (the Panda has no firmware), but reading a bootloader on boot is a heck of a lot better than running your whole OS from the card)
[06:03] <krosswindz> agreed
[06:03] <krosswindz> I can build natively on the pandaboard
[06:04] <scientes_> whats the package for qemu-arm?
[06:04] <scientes_> krosswindz, thx, its opencpn.org
[06:04] <infinity> scientes_: qemu
[06:04] <scientes_> infinity, that just installs qemu-kvm now
[06:04] <mythos> apt-file search qemu-arm
[06:04] <infinity> scientes_: Or, if you want to do binfmt-misc emulation (which is much less annoying), qemu-user-static
[06:05] <infinity> scientes_: Yeah, qemu-kvm should include qemu-system-arm, does it not?
[06:05] <scientes_> don't know i was trying to use virt-manager
[06:05] <infinity> Oh, those may have been split off into qemu-system
[06:06] <infinity> Anyhow, qemu system emulation is almost never what you want, unless you're debugging bootloaders.
[06:06] <infinity> qemu binfmt emulation is much less annoying.
[06:08] <krosswindz> infinity: are there md5sums for the files around some where
[06:09] <infinity> http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/precise/main/installer-armhf/current/images/MD5SUMS
[06:09] <krosswindz> thans
[06:09] <krosswindz> thanks*
[06:09] <scientes_> poof!, my computer randomly rebooted
[06:09] <infinity> scientes_: Welcome back.
[06:09] <scientes_> wierd
[06:09] <infinity> scientes_: So, as I was saying. ;)
[06:09] <scientes_> anyways, no infinity qemu-kvm only has qemu-system-i386 and -x86-64
 apt-file search qemu-arm
[06:10] <infinity> scientes_: Yeah, the others were broken out into qemu-system
[06:10] <scientes_> exactly
[06:10] <scientes_> installing now....
[06:10] <infinity> scientes_: However, you almost certainly don't want an actual qemu-system, unless you're debugging bootloaders.
[06:10] <scientes_> oh ok
[06:10] <scientes_> oh yes, there is multiarch !!!!! :):):)
[06:10] <infinity> scientes_: If you install qemu-user-static, then you can work with ARM binaries as if they were native.
[06:11] <scientes_> I don't see -static, just qemu-user
[06:11] <scientes_> but that is OK
[06:11] <mythos> search for qemu-arm-static
[06:12] <scientes_> krosswindz, should i just use what i built on my sheevaplug in debian wheezy, or do you want to build opencpn ( opencpn.org ) ?
[06:12] <krosswindz> scientes_: I am sorry I guess you there was some miscommunication
[06:12] <infinity> scientes_: qemu-user-static definitely exists (and is the required one in this case), I just installed it.
[06:13] <scientes_> ahh it does, what is the difference?
[06:13] <scientes_> oh, i read the desc, nvm
[06:14] <scientes_> wait, no I don't know why
[06:14] <scientes_> dpkg --add-architecture armel ? now
[06:14] <infinity> scientes_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/829726/ <-- witness the magic.
[06:15] <infinity> scientes_: You could do multiarch too, but that gets messy.  Do you really do your builds in your base system, not in chroots?
[06:16] <scientes_> oh gotcha, that looks much cleaner
[06:18] <scientes_> krosswindz, oh, gotcha
[06:18] <scientes_> OK, all this talk about SD cards----so if I launch an embedded device, it is smart to not use a SD root?
[06:19] <infinity> scientes_: If you're building an actual embedded device, hopefully that assumes you're taking great pains to make sure you're not doing things like logging to filesystems, etc.
[06:20] <infinity> scientes_: If you never write to the card except to update software, SD's a fine choice.
[06:20] <scientes_> ok, so all the problems with SD are going to be the same with NAND flash?
[06:20] <infinity> scientes_: If you run a general purpose OS on it, and call it "embedded" without making sure you neuter that sort of behaviour, you're going to kill a lot of flash.
[06:20] <scientes_> not the FTL?
[06:20] <scientes_> *do any come from the FTL?
[06:21] <infinity> scientes_: Hrm?
[06:21] <infinity> I'm not sure I understand what you're asking.
[06:21] <scientes_> flash translation layer---why SD is a block device, not a mtd
[06:21] <infinity> Yes... But I'm not sure what you're asking about FTLs.
[06:21] <scientes_> well is that the source of SD problems?
[06:22] <scientes_> or are their problems shared with raw NAND flash?
[06:22] <infinity> No, the source of problems is rewriting flash, full stop.
[06:22] <scientes_> ok, that is what i was asking
[06:22] <infinity> And raw flash is usually worse than something with a decent FTL implementation, cause at least decent FTLs (like those found on SSD disks) do proper wear-leveling.
[06:22] <infinity> But, at the end of the day, excessive writes kill flash, even SSD disks.
[06:22] <scientes_> infinity, ubifs does wear-leveling just great
[06:23] <infinity> SD cards tend to die much faster than SSDs, though. :P
[06:23] <infinity> (I've killed a lot of SD cards working on ARM porting...)
[06:23] <scientes_> ahh, very heavy usage
[06:23] <scientes_> would you recommend logging to tmpfs?
[06:23] <infinity> Logging to a tmpfs is reasonable, sure.  Means you don't get permanence, but it's enough for spot disagnostics.
[06:23] <scientes_> is it just the number of writes, or maybe to fast, etc?
[06:24] <infinity> Most embedded projects really don't need logs, though.
[06:24] <infinity> Or, really shouldn't?
[06:24] <mythos> i think, a minimal logging into ram is fine. for the rest a log-server should be used
[06:24] <infinity> Cause once you sell it to a customer, do you really expect them to be mailing you lofs? ;)
[06:24] <infinity> logs*
[06:24] <mythos> yes i do
[06:25] <infinity> scientes_: Speed doesn't really matter, it's just the number of writes, period.  And yeah, logs are the worst culprit right after atime (but sane people always disable atime on flash)
[06:26] <infinity> mythos: If every set top box, phone, and smart TV in my parents' house expected them to be "informed and educated" users who filed bug reports with logs, I suspect they'd just stop buying these computers disguised as appliances.
[06:26] <scientes_> infinity, what about relatime?
[06:26] <scientes_> (mainly for completeness)
[06:26] <mythos> infinity, i have to care about thinclients, so... ;-)
[06:27] <infinity> scientes_: I've never seen the point in relatime.
[06:28] <infinity> scientes_: But it would fall in betweenish, I suppose.  Much less likely to update, but it's still unnecessary writes for a flash device.
[06:28] <scientes_> yeah, go with atime
[06:28] <scientes_> i mean noatime
[06:29] <scientes_> seems like btrfs might be smarter for a flash device---ugh
[06:29] <scientes_> i still hate that ugly FTL
[06:29] <scientes_> and would rather just put ubifs on it
[06:29] <infinity> mythos: Well, I tend to view thinclients more like "really crappy computers" than appliances, in the enviroments where most people use them.  That said, it would be much nicer if they were appliances.
[06:30] <mythos> i don't like them either
[06:30] <mythos> but what shall i say... somehow i have to earn money
[06:30] <infinity> And back in the days when you could buy X terminals off the shelf from IBM and Wyse, and thin clients were much less fat than they are today, they were very appliancy.
[06:31] <mythos> ;___; i'm sorry
[06:33] <infinity> Oddly enough, I think we've almost come full circle.  The full-features "appliance" IBM thin clients I used to work with that did seamless desktop convergence between X11 and WinNT/Metaframe were, if I recall, running StrongARM CPUs.
[06:33] <infinity> Really, really slow ones. :P
[06:33] <scientes_> infinity, do you use udev in your chroots, or bind mount /dev ?
[06:33] <infinity> scientes_: Neither, I just mount devpts.  But if you actually need all the nodes, bindmounting /dev is the sane option, yes.
[06:36] <infinity> Oh, no.  Wikipedia has educated me.  Those were PPC (first gen) and Pentium (second gen).
[06:36] <scientes_> how do i see what breaks a package without installing aptitude?
[06:36] <scientes_> nvm, it just printed it out
[06:39] <mythos> infinity, as far as i know is arm rather new for thinclients.... i know a hp armv3-device, but that's it
[06:40] <scientes_> mythos, even if it is new, it seems like it would be the way to go in the long run, considering the power consumption
[06:40] <infinity> mythos: Yeah, I'm trying to think of why I got confused about that one.  Well, other than the part where it was 15 years ago and I'm old. :P
[06:40] <mythos> *g
[06:41] <mythos> scientes_, yes, you are right
[06:41] <mythos> it is the new hot stuff for citrix and vmware... (lot of work for me... that's why i'm here)
[06:43] <scientes_> infinity, oh your right, multiarch wouldn't work because it doesn't include binaries
[06:44] <scientes_> *executables
[06:44] <infinity> http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-07L8402-Network-Station-1000-/320556566601?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa2a90849
[06:44] <infinity> ^-- Memories.
[06:44] <infinity> And 95 bucks for nostalgia is tempting.
[06:45] <scientes_> is there a multiarch way to have the binaries put in a special place, and then you just set your $PATH approiately
[06:45] <scientes_> and have binfmtmisc with qemu do the rest?\
[06:45] <infinity> scientes_: No.
[06:45] <infinity> scientes_: Multiarch pretty much assumes that you don't want the same binary twice. (which is a fair assumption, generally)
[06:45] <mythos> infinity, i have to support the emulator for this device ;-)
[06:45] <scientes_> that way you could still use all your installed utilies in the not-chroot, like git, etc
[06:45] <infinity> scientes_: Of course, for development, this isn't a big deal, as you usually only need the foreign-arch libraries, not binaries.
[06:46] <infinity> scientes_: Still, chroots are much cleaner.
[06:46] <scientes_> instead of having to have two terminals open for the chroot :)
[06:46] <krosswindz> infinity: is there a US mirror for ports
[06:46] <scientes_> yes, two terminals at once isn't that big of a deal
[06:46] <krosswindz> infinity: netboot gives the otion of only UK
[06:46] <infinity> krosswindz: There may be one or two, but I don't know of any.
[06:46] <krosswindz> option*
[06:46] <krosswindz> infinity: thanks
[06:46] <infinity> krosswindz: The only official ports mirror is ports.ubuntu.com
[06:47] <krosswindz> infinity: ok
[06:47] <infinity> scientes_: Yeah, I guess I don't notice how or why it bugs people, because I've always done all my development in chroots, long before I could also do fancy emulated chroots. :)
[06:48] <infinity> scientes_: My laptop has pretty much nothing installed in the base system, and each bit of software I work on gets a new clean chroot.
[06:48] <infinity> (waste of space, maybe, but it helps maintain sanity)
[06:48] <scientes_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/829746/
[06:49] <infinity> scientes_: sed -i -e 's/main/main universe restricted multiverse/' /etc/apt/sources.list && apt-get update
[06:49] <scientes_> hmm, why don't you use vserver with vhashify then?
[06:49] <scientes_> so that all the duplicate files get hardlinked together in a sane way
[06:49] <scientes_> which reduces both disk AND ram consumption
[06:50] <scientes_> along with security which doesn't exist with chroots
[06:50] <infinity> Security's a non-issue.
[06:50] <infinity> For my use-case.
[06:50] <scientes_> but what about vhashify?
[06:50] <infinity> This is just about not having junk in my base system, and not polluting package builds.
[06:51] <infinity> The de-duping might be neat, but *shrug*... Don't care? ;)
[06:51] <infinity> I build and delete chroots several times a day, it's not like they live long.
[06:51] <scientes_> are you at least running the ram consolidation thingy designed primarily for KVM?
[06:51] <infinity> My workflow comes from more than a decade of buildd maintenance, it's not "sane" to most people, but it works for me.
[06:51] <scientes_> it just scans ram and loops for things that are the same
[06:52] <mythos> sooo... chroot is a "good enough"-solution :o
[06:52] <infinity> RAM consolodation doesn't matter, I'm not running long-running processes in these chroots.
[06:52] <infinity> Build, compile, wipe.
[06:52] <scientes_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/829746/ <----help
[06:52] <infinity> scientes_: sed -i -e 's/main/main universe multiverse/' /etc/apt/sources.list && apt-get update
[06:53] <infinity> ^-- I did.
[06:53] <scientes_> infinity, ahh, yes universe needs to be on, thx
[06:53] <scientes_> no multiverse thxuverymuch however
[06:53] <infinity> ;)
[06:54] <infinity> You shouldn't need restricted either, but you have it on.
[06:54] <infinity> (If you're trying to avoid non-free software sneaking up and biting you in your sleep)
[06:54] <scientes_> that was just the default for the ubuntu core tar.gz
[06:55] <infinity> Yeah.  I should revisit that.
[06:55] <infinity> I picked "main restricted" pretty arbitrarily when I first put core together, just based on the fact that it used to be our default in, like, dapper?
[06:56] <scientes_> what is the default now?
[06:56] <infinity> I sometimes live in the past.
[06:56] <infinity> The default now is, I believe, all 4 components enabled after install.  But I'm not positive of that either, I'd have to install a fresh Ubuntu. :P
[06:56] <scientes_> definitely not
[06:57] <scientes_> it just feels like that the way software-center works by default
[06:57] <infinity> Yeah, maybe.
[06:57] <infinity> Perhaps the default is still "main restricted", or possibly just "main".
[06:57] <infinity> I'm too lazy to dig through code right now.
[06:57] <infinity> Plus, "default" depends on how you install.  Keeping those things in sync is annoying.
[06:58] <scientes_> infinity, I think you should just enable main
[06:58] <scientes_> oh wait, its not just armel
[06:58] <infinity> It's all arches.
[06:58] <scientes_> i was thinking that the hardware that gets restricted put on default is not present with arm
[06:59] <infinity> But, that said, people shouldn't need fancy binary opengl drivers in a minimal chroot.
[06:59] <infinity> And if they do, they can edit sources.list. :P
[06:59] <scientes_> ^^ precisely
[06:59] <scientes_> so just put it main, and be done with it
[06:59] <infinity> Well, I was tossing around the idea of going the other way too.
[06:59] <infinity> Since people constantly say "I tried to install $foo and it's not found, is ubuntu-core crap somehow?"
[07:00] <infinity> Or "is this built on ARM?!"
[07:00] <scientes_> i havn't looked for a while but it seemed like ubuntu was shipping some pretty schetchy stuff in multiverse
[07:00] <infinity> When the answer is, invariably, "enable universe".
[07:00] <scientes_> compared to debian's non-free being pretty reasonable when i looked at it
[07:00] <infinity> scientes_: Well, multiverse is just the non-free component of universe.  So, sure.  I guess that's sketchy on top of sketchy. :)
[07:00] <infinity> But it's not like enabling it forces people to install things from it.
[07:00] <scientes_> infinity, but it was bigger than debian's non-free
[07:01] <krosswindz> infinity: I am installing precise on an usb hard drive, I dont need a separate boot partition on it since that will come from the SD card right?
[07:01] <infinity> And we don't allow dependencies from main to universe or from universe to multiverse, so...
[07:01] <infinity> krosswindz: Right.
[07:01] <scientes_> debian was like: nasa worldwind (open source, but bad license), xtides-data-nonfree (asshole govmnts), and hardware support
[07:01] <infinity> scientes_: Debian has, historically, been kinder to their mirrors with regard to non-free.
[07:02] <infinity> scientes_: If something was widely non-redistributable in, say, several EU countries, or the US, or whatever, they wouldn't carry it.
[07:02] <infinity> scientes_: multiverse, we just say "look, it's hosted in the UK, mirrors don't have to mirror it, if they do, we assume they've read the licenses, HTH, HAND".
[07:02] <scientes_> it drives me nuts how governments, that need good map data in order to do taxes, etc, double charge their citizens
[07:03] <scientes_> the US is like the only sane country in this regard
[07:03] <infinity> scientes_: Yeah, well.  The US and software sanity is a sore topic for Debian too.  It took us FOREVER to get rid of the stupid "non-US" split for crypto. :(
[07:04] <scientes_> the NSA managed to hold back encryption for 10 years with that stupid shit
[07:04] <StevenK> And even then it involved something like 850 pages being sent to the US government.
[07:04] <StevenK> By hand.
[07:04] <scientes_> also: software patents
[07:04] <infinity> StevenK: Yeah, it was tons of special.
[07:05] <infinity> StevenK: I haven't kept up, do you know if Debian's finally managed to obtain a blanket waiver, or if ftpmaster is still automating an e-mail to the US govt for every NEW package?
[07:05] <StevenK> I think its the latter.
[07:05] <infinity> Ridiculous. ;)
[07:08] <scientes_> infinity, what percentage of packages correctly cross-compile?
[07:09] <infinity> scientes_: Like xdeb, cross-build the package style?  Probably a much lower number than  you'd like.
[07:09] <infinity> scientes_: Building natively (or "natively" under emulation) is still the way to go.
[07:09] <scientes_> yeah, i just assumed that I should default to natively
[07:10] <infinity> We've been working on improving the numbers for cross support for specific dependency chains.
[07:10] <scientes_> sure the kernel can do it, but not much else
[07:10] <scientes_> are there any list of what chains work?
[07:10] <infinity> But, personally, I think it's wasted effort.  ARM hardware is getting faster every day and, while I appreciate that people are spoiled and all, if I can build the entire armhf archive in ~15 days, it's not "slow".
[07:11] <scientes_> it supposedly fixes alot of bugs to get cross-compile working
[07:11] <infinity> scientes_: Not sure how far that's gone.  It was mostly being done by Linaro folks, IIRC.  I'll be at Linaro Connect in, like, 2 days though, and I think we have a catch-up session on it. :P
[07:11] <infinity> scientes_: Err, what?  How would cross-compiling fix bugs?
[07:11] <infinity> scientes_: That sounds a whole like like misinformation.
[07:11] <infinity> s/a whole/a whole lot/
[07:11] <scientes_> probably is, only read it once
[07:12] <scientes_> some random comment on lwn or something
[07:12] <infinity> At best, cross-compiling will provide you with binary-identical output, at worst, the cross version will be horribly broken compared to the native.
[07:12] <infinity> I can think of any scenario where it would be better. :)
[07:12] <scientes_> I built the linux kernel with distcc on x86_64 and arm at the same time, and it booted!
[07:12] <infinity> s/can/can't/
[07:13] <infinity> In general, cross should get you binary-identical output these days.  GCC and binutils are much saner than they used to be.
[07:13] <infinity> But.
[07:13] <infinity> There's always a but.
[07:13] <infinity> And the buts never favour the cross environment.
[07:13] <krosswindz> infinity: what about cross chroot using qemu
[07:13] <infinity> krosswindz: That's essentially "native", for the purpose of this discussion.
[07:13] <scientes_> yes
[07:13] <krosswindz> ok
[07:14] <scientes_> cross-compiling is much faster
[07:14] <scientes_> emulation is not
[07:14] <scientes_> but I was definitely impressed with i could use distcc with arm and x86_64 cross at the same time, and boot what came out
[07:15] <scientes_> infinity, oh geeze, you should have put no-install-recommend in the core.....
[07:16] <scientes_> oh wait, i guess it did that
[07:16] <scientes_> just alot of stuff
[07:19] <infinity> scientes_: You can specify it on the command line.
[07:20] <scientes_> i know that, i thought it was installing a bunch of worthless stuff, but i scrolled up, and it listed the recommends sep, which IIRC means it didn't install them
[07:20] <infinity> I type "apt-get --no-install-recommends --purge install $foo" so often that it's muscle memory. :P
[07:20] <infinity> scientes_: No, it lists them even if they're also in the install list.  If you didn't specify it, you got recommends.  It's our default.
[07:21] <scientes_> ahh ok, tons of worthless stuff
[07:21] <scientes_> as i suspenected
[07:21] <scientes_> it was alrady installing when i was like O shi... i forgot
[07:21] <infinity> Heh.  Oh well, not world-ending. :P
[07:22] <infinity> The only place where we actually have no-install-recommends in the apt config is our buildd chroots.
[07:22] <infinity> For obvious reasons.
[07:22] <scientes_> i have added it to apt.conf.d so many times.....
[07:22] <scientes_> I also forgot to use my apt-cacher-ng.....
[07:22] <krosswindz> infinity: I was trying to install using net boot to USB drive
[07:23] <krosswindz> kernel fails to install
[07:23] <krosswindz> any way to check the log over serial console?
[07:23] <infinity> krosswindz: Weird.  It definitely shouldn't.
[07:23] <infinity> krosswindz: It logs to syslog.
[07:23] <infinity> krosswindz: But I'm about to head out.  You might try poking GrueMaster tomorrow about it, he netinstalls all day, every day.
[07:24] <krosswindz> lol k
[07:24] <krosswindz> if I want to check syslog
[07:24] <krosswindz> is there any way over serial console
[07:24] <krosswindz> I would have to quit installer right?
[07:25] <infinity> If you're still in d-i, you can hit any "go back" button, and then scroll down to "start a terminal"
[07:25] <infinity> Or "spawn a shell" or something like that.  I forget the exact wording.
[07:25] <scientes_> or just switch to another virtual console with ctrl-shift...(if not on serial console)
[07:25] <krosswindz> ok
[07:26] <krosswindz> let me check that
[07:26] <infinity> Anyhow.  I'm heading out.  Good luck.
[07:26] <scientes_> ctrl-shift-f1, f2
[07:26] <infinity> scientes_: Yeah, he's on serial.
[07:26] <krosswindz> infinity: thanks for the help
[07:27] <infinity> krosswindz: It could just be something as simple as the d-i images being out of sync with the archive or something.  We're all back to work on Monday, if you find actual bugs we should fix. :P
[07:27] <krosswindz> scientes_: I am on serial console so no virtual terminals
[07:27] <infinity> krosswindz: But I suspect GrueMaster can help you tomorrow.  He's often around and bored.
[07:27] <krosswindz> infinity: I will pick on him tomorrow if he is around when I am on
[07:27] <scientes_> krosswindz, you can see i realized that above
[07:28] <krosswindz> scientes_: sorry tryin to multi task  between my laptop and the serial console :p
[07:29] <scientes_> krosswindz, what device is this?
[07:29] <krosswindz> scientes_: pandaboard
[07:30] <krosswindz> scientes_: got it like 2 weeks back
[07:30] <krosswindz> scientes_: had to wait till this week because my serial cable wasnt working
[07:30] <scientes_> exciting!
[07:31] <krosswindz> scientes_: yeah
[07:32] <scientes_> I'm looking at getting a cubox/d2plug---just ordered a mino 720 USB-*only* touchscreen for my sheevaplug
[07:32] <krosswindz> nice
[07:34] <scientes_> you should check out the rasperry pi
[07:34] <scientes_> $25/ $35
[07:35] <krosswindz> scientes_: yeah I have looked at it
[07:35] <scientes_> wont run ubuntu however, only debian armel
[07:35] <krosswindz> scientes_: I wish it had an otg port
[07:35] <scientes_> what is otg?
[07:35] <krosswindz> scientes_: I got the panda because I wanted a USB otg port
[07:35] <krosswindz> USB port that can behave either like usb slave or usb host
[07:36] <scientes_> hmm, reading the wikipedia page is a bit overwhelming
[07:37] <scientes_> the cubox/d2plug has a cdc enabled hdmi port
[07:37] <scientes_> so that the remote of a cdc hdmi TV can control the computer
[07:37] <scientes_> and visa-versa
[07:38] <krosswindz> scientes_: cool
[07:38] <krosswindz> scientes_: you can use it as media player then
[07:39] <scientes_> IIRC they can even power on each-other
[07:41] <gildean> didn't newest hdmi-version include stuff like ethernet in there too?
[07:41] <gildean> the standard that is, not the devices you're talking about
[07:42] <scientes_> display port is suppose to supplant hdmi......
[07:43] <krosswindz> gildean: scientes_ display port doesnt have cec
[07:43] <scientes_> gildean, I really don't know, but i am sure it would be on the wikipedia page
[07:43] <krosswindz> gildean: yeah hdmi 1.4 also has ethernet
[07:43] <scientes_> dang
[07:43] <scientes_> hdmi is everything
[07:44] <scientes_> including evil DRM
[07:44] <scientes_> HEC Data+ (Optional, HDMI 1.4+ with Ethernet)
[07:45] <scientes_> geeze, compressed and decompressed
[07:46] <krosswindz> weird I am getting host unresolved for ports.ubuntu.com when the rest of the packages are downloaded from it
[07:46] <krosswindz> completely weird
[07:46] <scientes_> krosswindz, its downloading those packages in the chroot
[07:46] <scientes_> of /target
[07:46] <krosswindz> scientes_: yeah
[07:46] <scientes_> so its a differn't resolv.conf
[07:47] <krosswindz> hmm
[07:47] <krosswindz> probably the netboot installer is broken
[07:47] <krosswindz> let me try an older version of the netboot installer
[07:48] <scientes_> just the kernel install?
[07:48] <scientes_> well, i don't have that hardware, on the sheevaplug, i have to-date managed the kernel seperately
[07:49] <krosswindz> yeah just the kernel install
[07:49] <scientes_> even though there is (now, not when i first installed) a linux-image-kirkwood package
[07:50] <scientes_> oh wait, its cause I wanted to install to the NAND flash, rather than a SD card
[07:50] <scientes_> how many writes do you get on flash before it peels over?
[07:51] <krosswindz> not sure
[07:51] <krosswindz> typically these days 100K write cycles
[07:52] <krosswindz> not sure
[07:52] <krosswindz> 100K is for flash media
[07:52] <krosswindz> may be nand has significantly less
[07:52] <scientes_> it seems that turning of compression in logrotate really isn't supported
[07:53] <scientes_> i get syslog, syslog.1, syslog.1.gz, syslog.2, syslog2.gz
[07:53] <scientes_> its a mess
[07:53] <scientes_> cause ubifs already has zlib compression so it is pointless
[07:54] <scientes_> especially cause it cause another write, cause it changes the file rather than just rename it
[08:22] <scientes_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/829783/
[08:22] <scientes_> ^^^^gcc error
[08:24] <scientes_> gcc claims it has a bug
[08:24] <scientes_> /home/build/opencpn/plugins/grib_pi/src/grib.cpp:2193:1: internal compiler error: Segmentation fault
[08:29] <krosswindz> is this on native
[08:29] <krosswindz> or cross build
[08:30] <krosswindz> calling it quits for tonight
[08:30] <scientes_> this is on qemu
[08:31] <scientes_> the next line after ctrl-c was "The bug is not reproducible, so it is likely a hardware or OS problem.
[08:31] <scientes_> "
[08:31] <scientes_> so i posted it to #qemu on irc.oftc
[08:31] <scientes_> neways good night
[08:46] <scientes_> hmm, didn't put that out a second time---could just be cause the place where i ctrl-c'ed
[10:33] <morphis> infinity: ping
[11:54] <lilstevie> krosswindz, given NAND is usually what SDCards are made of it should be the same
[17:48] <Person987> Two questions: I'm a noob to pandaboard and I have ubuntu working nicely on an 8gig SD card now.  Is there a way I can duplicate this SD card so I have a backup of the entire "system"
[17:49] <Person987> Second, can I copy it to a USB thumb drive and run off of that?
[17:53] <mythos> Person987, dd if=<sdcard-device> | gzip > backup.gz
[17:54] <mythos> restore the card: zcat backup.gz > <sdcard-device>
 is something like /dev/mmc...
[17:56] <mythos> search for it with fdisk -l
[18:44] <pr_oc> i have been fighting with ubuntu on my gumstix/overo earth for a few days now, so any help is appreciated.  Currently i'm stuck on getting any USB wifi card to work.  I keep running into walls trying to build the manufacturer drivers, and am almost out of space on my 2gb SD card.  what kernel should i be running?
[18:55] <dioxin__> pr_oc: I made progress when I used the 12.04 dev build
[18:56] <pr_oc> how did you build your initial root filesystem?
[18:56] <pr_oc> i've found a bunch of different procedures
[18:56] <pr_oc> chances are i choose poorly, because i'm missing just about every troubleshooting utility.  i'm now running out of space because of all the apt-gets i've done :-)
[18:57] <dioxin__> I'm using a Pandaboard with 8 or 16Gb SD cards
[18:57] <dioxin__> so I'm hitting a space issue
[18:57] <dioxin__> I'm NOT*
[18:58] <pr_oc> yeah just saw those boards
[18:58] <pr_oc> makes me wish i could swap this gumstix setup for that
[18:58] <dioxin__> I'm building my initial fs system using the images off the Pandaboard wiki
[18:59] <dioxin__> if you have a 2nd system, maybe you could download the vmlinuz and initrg.img + the modules directory and just copy them onto the gumtix SD card
[19:00] <dioxin__> (its kinda what I've done to get round an issue I had
[19:00] <pr_oc> i might end up doing that
[19:00] <pr_oc> i'm so close to my goal that i'd hate to start over
[19:10] <carli2> hi
[19:10] <carli2> I have a omap3 beagleboard
[19:10] <carli2> with the 11.10 release, usb mouse and keyboard did not work
[19:10] <carli2> is that issue known?
[21:01] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: are you around?
[21:01] <GrueMaster> maybe...
[21:01] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: infinity asked me to pick your brain
[21:01] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: I am having trouble with the netboot image
[21:01] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: I am trying to install precise on an external usb drive
[21:02] <GrueMaster> Yea, there is a bug, we think in resolfconf
[21:02] <GrueMaster> resolvconf.
[21:02] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: when it goes to install the kernel I get an error at that time only for the kernel unable to resolve
[21:02] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: any work around
[21:03] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: does the oneiric netboot work?
[21:03] <GrueMaster> The only workaround I have is to pull up the install log, and look for the apt-get install  line just before the failure.  It will be a "can't resolv <mirror>" error.
[21:03] <GrueMaster> Then you can chroot target /bin/bash and atp-get install the packages manually.
[21:03] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: yes ports.ubuntu.com
[21:04] <GrueMaster> Oneiric should still work.
[21:04] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: Oneiric would be armel, would there be any way I can upgrade from Oneiric armel to Precise armhf then
[21:04] <GrueMaster> Not that I know of.
[21:05] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: you suggest I use the fb image then and not serial console
[21:05] <GrueMaster> The preinstalled images should still work, but they are more of a challenge to get installed on usb.  It is doable, just difficult.
[21:06] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: netboot would be easier using fb image then
[21:06] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: after I chroot and install the kernel I can continue with the installers next step right?
[21:07] <GrueMaster> That would be irrelevant.  resolvconf isbroken during install.
[21:07] <GrueMaster> yes, but you will still need to bounce back into the chroot to manually pull packages.
[21:07] <krosswindz> ok
[21:08] <GrueMaster> It is doable.  I did it.  It just  takes a while.
[21:08] <krosswindz> does the external usb install use any special uboot image
[21:09] <krosswindz> I was wondering if I could install on the sd card then copy over the root filesystem and modify the boot.script and change it to boot from USB
[21:10] <GrueMaster> That's what I did prior to netboot support.
[21:10] <krosswindz> that should work then
[21:10] <GrueMaster> I "may" have a temporary solution.  Trying it now.  Give me a few minutes.
[21:10] <krosswindz> ok
[21:10] <krosswindz> sweet
[21:10] <krosswindz> I will be around
[21:18] <GrueMaster> YEA!   Success!
[21:18] <GrueMaster> Ok,here's the steps:
[21:18] <krosswindz> aweomse, can I try it :p
[21:19] <GrueMaster> select "execute shell"
[21:19] <GrueMaster> chroot target /bin/bash
[21:19] <krosswindz> ok
[21:19] <GrueMaster> dpkg --force-all --remove resolvconf # ignore errors
[21:20] <GrueMaster> apt-get install resolvconf # ignore errors
[21:20] <GrueMaster> exit back to menu
[21:20] <GrueMaster> run select software (default selection from where it left off).
[21:21] <krosswindz> ok
[21:21] <krosswindz> thats its?
[21:21] <krosswindz> it*
[21:21] <krosswindz> I just fired the netboot again
[21:21] <krosswindz> will report back in a bit
[21:22] <dioxin> With the Ubuntu Server images (11.10) what is the effect of the various Live CD options from the install options?
[21:23] <GrueMaster> dioxin: ???
[21:23] <GrueMaster> We only have preinstalled images for arm.
[21:24] <dioxin> GrueMaster: I've done the 11.10 server image, and I'm at the "Choose software to install" stage
[21:24] <dioxin> I get options for different live CD's
[21:24] <GrueMaster> Oh, that.  I don't know what the live cd selections are.
[21:25] <dioxin> ok, well here goes nothing ;)
[21:26] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: does precise also need the 72 MiB fat32 partition that is not mounted but has the boot flag on?
[21:27] <GrueMaster> That is on SD, right?  That is where u-boot boots from.  Keep it.
[21:27] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: on the USB drive
[21:28] <GrueMaster> Interesting.  I've never seen that on Panda.
[21:28] <GrueMaster> But then I use a preseed.
[21:29] <krosswindz> dioxin: I remember seeing that as well it is before the actual install starts
[21:29] <krosswindz> dioxin: I think I chose the first option which was to install a base system I dont remember
[21:30] <dioxin> previously I've chosen Base-Server-Install and OpenSSH and its worked
[21:30] <dioxin> I'm now trying lubuntu live cd option as well
[21:33] <krosswindz> I am not sure what it does
[21:34] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: the size of fat32 partition on SD card is 32M, I think thats what is the size in netboot image
[21:34] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: should I resize it once the install is done?
[21:34] <GrueMaster> Nah, that sould be enough.
[21:35] <GrueMaster> It only needs to hold MLO, u-boot.bin, and backups of uImage, uInitrd, and boot.scr
[21:35] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: thanks
[21:36] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: its installing the base system now, my net connection is slow atm because its sunday and everyone in my apt complex is at home
[21:37] <GrueMaster> Heh.  Understand.
[21:37] <GrueMaster> That's why I have my own mirror at home.
[21:41] <dioxin> how big is the repository? it is feasible to mirror it at home?
[21:42] <GrueMaster> Not too big if you only pull armhf.  I have all of arm (no sources) and it is ~350G (I think, haven'tchecked my server lately).
[21:43] <GrueMaster> That is all of arm (armel, armhf) and also contains all pools (main, restricted, multiverse, universe).
[21:43] <dioxin> including 10.10 through to 12.04?
[21:45] <GrueMaster> Yes.  Actually, it appears to be 255G on my mirror.
[21:45] <GrueMaster> (I also have all images since UDS - that's why I thought it was more).
[21:46] <dioxin> I've got a spare ATOM box with a 1 TB drive attached... hmmm ;)
[21:46] <dioxin> (and luckily I've a 100 meg internet connection ;)
[21:47] <dioxin> does Ubuntu Support Beagle Bone as well?
[21:47] <GrueMaster> I use ubumirror to do the mirroring.  Ubuports (the script that mirrors ports.ubuntu.com) runs every 2 hours.
[21:47] <GrueMaster> I think so.  I don't have one to try.
[21:47] <dioxin> I get one Tuesday I think
[21:48] <GrueMaster> cool.
[21:49] <GrueMaster> If it boots the same as the beagexm, it will just work.
[21:49] <krosswindz> moment of truth
[21:50] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: its redoing the basesystem install
[21:50] <dioxin> I might have to pick your brains in a couple of days on how to do the repo mirror
[21:50] <GrueMaster> krosswindz: that is normal.
[21:50] <krosswindz> dioxin: check apt-mirror
[21:50] <GrueMaster> dioxin: I'll pastebin my ubumirror.conf when you are ready.
[21:51] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: awesome its asking me to chose the kernel this time
[21:51] <dioxin> I need to reinstall the ATOM as well along with recieve the board and other toys :D
[21:51] <krosswindz> i select linux-omap4
[21:51] <GrueMaster> krosswindz: apt-mirror doesn't get the udebs and other stuff needed for netboot.
[21:51] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: aah ok
[21:51] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: It installed the kernel, thanks for the help :p
[21:51] <GrueMaster> krosswindz: The kernel questions are a good sign.
[21:52] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: its configuring apt now
[21:52] <dioxin> GrueMaster: is it possible to build the entire ubuntu from source?
[21:52] <GrueMaster> excellent
[21:52] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: does precise kernel still have the 1G issue where compiler segfaults?
[21:52] <GrueMaster> yes, but it takes a long time.
[21:53] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: I want to build stuff natively
[21:53] <GrueMaster> krosswindz: No, that was fixed.
[21:54] <dioxin> is compiling i/o or computation intensive?
[21:54] <GrueMaster> We are in the process of rebuilding the pool.  I think it will take a week or two with a pool of pandas.
[21:54] <krosswindz> dioxin: both
[21:54] <GrueMaster> dioxin: Both.  The Panda is the fastest we currently have, but IO is slow.
[21:55] <dioxin> how many Panda in the pool?
[21:55] <GrueMaster> We hope to get some 4 core arm servers soon, but they probably won't be building until well into 12.10.
[21:55] <GrueMaster> Not sure.  16 I think.
[21:56] <GrueMaster> It takes something like 12 hours to build libreOffice.
[21:58] <krosswindz> wow on the pool of pandas or just one?
[21:58] <krosswindz> quad core arms are they omaps or tegra?
[21:58] <GrueMaster> Just one.   We don't use distcc
[21:59] <GrueMaster> Tegra 3 is 5 core, but they are limited availability.
[21:59] <GrueMaster> Not sure what omap5 will be or when it comes out.
[21:59] <GrueMaster> Calxeda is the exiting one. Check out their announcement.
[22:00] <krosswindz> I read omap5 would be quad core
[22:00] <krosswindz> with like 2GHz core
[22:00] <GrueMaster> that will be cool.
[22:01] <krosswindz> let me try to find that article
[22:02] <krosswindz> http://www.fudzilla.com/processors/item/21777-omap-5-is-quad-core-28nm-in-2012
[22:03] <krosswindz> cortex a15
[22:03] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: installation complete rebooting now
[22:03] <GrueMaster> Double cool.  A15 will support kvm.
[22:03] <GrueMaster> krosswindz: Excellent!
[22:04] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: I have login prompt over serial console
[22:04] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: thanks a lot for your help
[22:05] <GrueMaster> glad I could help.  Hopefully this willbe fixed next week.
[22:06] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: I can for now get rid of all the archive.ubuntu.com entries from sources.list right
[22:06] <krosswindz> and security.ubuntu.com as well?
[22:06] <GrueMaster> Yes, unless you want to install a source package.
[22:07] <krosswindz> I will install linux source for recompiling it
[22:07] <GrueMaster> security.ubuntu.com is a bug.  All updates are on ports.ubuntu.com
[22:07] <krosswindz> ok
[22:08] <GrueMaster> I have to run.  Need to get ready for superbowl.
[23:11] <krosswindz> GrueMaster: you around?
[23:11] <krosswindz> aah now I see you are off to watch superbowl