len-1204We seem to have lost audio group on install today.00:52
len-1204I am having second (maybe third and fourth) thoughts about installing with the network connected.00:56
len-1204ubiquity (and the alt installer for that matter) seem to deal badly with intermittent net service.00:58
len-1204There seems to be no ability to skip over a trouble download. There also seems to be no way of telling the person installing something has gone wrong.01:00
len-1204I have had the installer hang or crash on me do to download problems 3 or 4 times now.01:02
len-1204I am about to the point of recommending netless install.01:02
len-1204This would be a problem for things like ubuntu desktop where they are trying to keep things to cd size.01:03
holsteinlen-1204: fine with me01:10
len-1204US has all the needed stuff on the DVD so the only thing we get from net is flash. (goody :-P ) 01:12
len-1204Whats the default CLI editor? Nano no more?02:46
holsteinlen-1204: should be nano i say03:01
holsteinmaybe its just a glitch03:02
len-1204holstein: I would think that is part of the base install, but all I could find was vi :/03:06
len-1204I have to think to hard to use vi...03:07
holsteinlen-1204: hehe.. i have to RTFM each time ;)03:19
astraljavaIt sounds like a problem. Probably the reason is a missing 'ubuntu-standard'. Can you check?04:03
astraljavaHmm... formal meeting in T - 13 hours.04:04
astraljavaProbably need to go over the agenda.04:04
holsteini cant make it :/04:05
holsteingt a concert04:05
astraljavaholstein: Ok. I have a few topics in mind, so can you go over the agenda and write your opinions prior to that?04:07
holsteinill give it a look04:09
holsteinim with you guys though!04:09
holsteini still plan on testing04:09
astraljavaI'll let you know in here when it's done from my part.04:09
holsteinand helping get some screenies for the installer04:09
astraljavaGood, good.04:09
len-1204Synaptic says ubuntu-standard is not installed astraljava04:30
len-1204no telnet either..but ssh is, different package I guess04:32
astraljavaI think we need to very carefully go over the seeding once again. List the important and essential packages that are missing.04:33
len-1204astraljava: even inthat package nano is only a recommends.04:38
len-1204Most of it's depends seem to be there.04:39
astraljavaholstein: len-1204: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2012February504:44
astraljavaAny other things to discuss?04:44
astraljavaWe're running out of time before Feature Freeze sets in.04:44
astraljavaSo if anything's urgent, we gotta step on it now.04:44
astraljavalen-1204: Yeah but installing the seeds uses recommends these days, so that _should_ be in.04:45
len-1204If it goes in the recommends should be speced too. It looks like a lot of work flows are getting dropped.04:46
astraljavalen-1204: What does that mean?04:47
len-1204The depends don't get nano for example.04:47
len-1204nano is just recommended04:47
len-1204There are a lot of apps missing to fill up the work flows.04:49
len-1204I just looked at the audio workflows, not the video or graphics ones. But they are shorter.04:49
holsteini was actually just trying to recruit a CAD guy :)04:50
holsteinwe need more video folk04:50
len-1204The audio workflows page has 20 work flows?04:50
holsteinyeah, its a bit all over the place04:50
holsteini think the workflow thing has gotten too busy04:50
holsteinbut it can be trimmed down04:50
holsteinand the idea is great04:50
len-1204I do think there should be a recording program a little bit lighter than ardour though.04:51
holsteinsudo apt-get install ubuntustudio-pocasting04:51
holsteinlen-1204: im still not sure why audacity is gone04:51
holsteinthough it made sense at the time04:51
holsteinaudacity seems like a no-brainer04:51
len-1204I would think so.04:51
len-1204holstein: I tried sudo apt-get install ubuntustudio-pocasting and also with the d but it says there isn't one.04:53
holsteinlen-1204: oh.. sorry04:54
holsteinim just saying, hypothetically, that would be nice04:54
holsteinthats what the work-flows are about04:54
holsteinits a neat idea04:54
holsteinjust a little busy04:54
len-1204Nicer with a gui to deal with it.04:55
holsteinand you can never really please everyone04:55
holsteinits a general idea of what folks would want to use04:55
holsteinthink of the MIDI one04:55
len-1204For me, I would just rather install everything and use what I want04:55
holsteinthat could pull in *so* much04:55
holsteinlen-1204: i definitely want to clear out some cobwebs04:56
len-1204It would need it's own menu04:56
holsteinlen-1204: they are going in a dock i think04:56
len-1204I would like a cleaner menu.04:56
holsteini plan on removing it ;)04:56
len-1204The dock might be ok... but with my screen horizontal takes too much room.04:57
holsteini like how xubuntu has a dock, but its just a panel04:57
holsteinnot that i want that one either, but at least its not an extra package04:58
len-1204As the screens get wider the height of things starts to matter04:58
holsteini have a gnome panel with launchers on it on my audio rig04:58
holsteinthats down the side actually04:58
len-1204like the install slide show xubuntu has goes right off the bottom of my screen.04:58
ailoThe "dock" in Xubuntu is really no different from a gnome panel04:58
holsteinyup, its just an xfce panel04:59
holsteinand it looks fine04:59
ailoJust that it has become common to edit the panel properties to make it function more like a dock04:59
ailoYou could really have done that in Gnome2 as well04:59
len-1204I shrink it, vertical it and stick it to the side..... ala unity...04:59
holsteinyup... i basically do04:59
holsteini just have it on the side05:00
holsteinbut, i dont use it much anymore05:00
holsteini much prefer kupfer05:00
holsteini dont really use a dock or a panel since that05:00
holsteinbut, most folks want a dock or a menu05:00
ailoI hardly make any changes at all since installing Gnome3. 05:00
ailoI change the wallpaper05:01
holsteini like how clean my openbox setup is with no menu like that, and no dock05:01
ailoNot that you can do much to change Gnome3 :P05:01
holsteinailo: hehe... i was just typing a smart-ass message about that ;)05:01
ailoI change the clock to 24h and make it show the date05:02
len-1204Oh another thing to ask at the meeting is why the installer is no longer in the audio group. I thought we fixed that. That and no real time are probably bigger than a lot of other things.05:02
ailoYep. Those are essential if you want to call it a multimedia distro in my view05:02
holsteini think those things are coming though05:02
holsteinthe live CD is really new05:03
astraljavalen-1204: holstein: ailo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PrecisePangolin/MissingPackages   is also being linked to from the agenda05:03
holsteinastraljava: cool :)05:03
len-1204On the install I can edit that stuff, but on the live I can't log out of the session and restart.05:03
len-1204the lightdm stuff is still broke too.... more broken now as the background has vanished as well.05:05
astraljavaOk, I made a few examples there, please expand the list as you find them in other work flows, too.05:07
len-1204Also, the live dvd persistence setup seems to default to startup all apps where they were when you shutdown. Can that be changed?05:07
astraljavalen-1204: It is still broken. I'm going to work on it today. Will probably make it in Monday's or Tuesday's images.05:08
len-1204If the installer hangs and you reboot you don't even get to the session before the installer starts again.05:08
astraljavalen-1204: That sounds like some session saving mechanism. You don't think users would want that?05:08
astraljavaThat's strange.05:09
len-1204As luck would have it I had an xterm running when it shut down too.05:10
len-1204But I never got the menu bar or background or any of that.05:10
len-1204The installer hung because my wireless cycled part way through the install.05:12
astraljavalen-1204: Yeah, that's unfortunate. You could file a bug about that, so we can keep track of it.05:12
len-1204I did file a bug about the installer hanging. But I could add to it.05:13
astraljavaI have a hard time calling oneiric a recommended release. Going to change that on the wiki and replace it with lucid.05:13
astraljavalen-1204: Yeah a good idea.05:13
len-1204 ;-)05:13
len-1204I'd have to reboot though...05:15
astraljavalen-1204: Whenever, it's not too urgent.05:15
len-1204I still have problems with foo yc20. Lots of xruns and nasty jackd reports05:16
len-1204even after getting rt working.05:16
len-1204misses key release messages... sounds real bad. does it work for anyone else?05:17
astraljavalen-1204: I suppose a bug report of that one is in order, too. Probably nothing we can do, but forward it to upstream.05:28
micahgastraljava: so, about a gmusicbrowser backport, should be fine, one would just need to test gmusicbrowser and remuco-gmusicbrowser with it06:28
astraljavamicahg: Ok, thanks! Sounds good.09:32
micahgastraljava: you want the new blender now, right?09:34
astraljavaI'm not a graphics guy, but I would assume as much, yes.10:25
astraljavaDoes anyone remember the bug number for missing the desktop session in precise? My lp-fu seems to be rusty today.10:51
astraljavaholstein: Anything to say re: agenda?16:22
holsteinastraljava: nah16:22
holsteini think  len has the testing down16:22
astraljavaI noticed there were apps added to the page we talked about yesterday, but no additional work flows.16:23
astraljavaT - 15 for the meeting, anybody out there?16:48
knomei'm *in* *here*16:48
knomeastraljava, is the meeting here or at #ubuntu-meeting?16:58
knomecould lurk in for a while16:59
astraljavaDoesn't seem like there's anything lurk-worthy.17:00
astraljavaOh well, snooker starts soon...17:02
knomeand the news and sports17:02
knomesee you later :)17:02
astraljavaLater. :)17:02
lenAnything happening?17:08
lenubuntu-meeting looks dead.... so does here.17:13
lenastraljava: later today, I will try installing all the missing SW to make sure it is installable and at least looks like it runs.17:15
lenI have only i386 machines, so I can't talk for amd64. Anything that doesn't work "out of the box" I would suggest removing that work flow for 12.04.17:16
lenBasically that is what Scott has said anyway.17:17
astraljavalen: Yeah, there's no one around for the meeting.17:20
lenI saw that.17:20
astraljavalen: I plan to install the daily as well, and have a look at the packages, too.17:21
astraljavaI can do amd64.17:21
astraljavaI'll also test the lightdm-greeter issue, I have the fix pretty much ready.17:21
lenIf they load and run put them in.17:21
astraljavaBut I don't know how long it takes to get it into the images.17:21
lenSounds good17:21
lenIt seems pretty quick... like next build.17:22
lenAnything that Scott has done has been. Anything that changes seeds goes quick.17:22
astraljavaYeah, but I want someone more experienced to review it, first.17:22
lenThat is not me.17:22
astraljavaI'm thinking Micah or Luke.17:23
lenI'm pretty raw17:23
lenTry foo yc20 on the amd64 maybe it works there.17:23
astraljavaYep, I'll fiddle with it a bit.17:24
lenMaybe it likes lots of memory and I only have 1g17:24
lenBut it is not usable on either of my machines17:24
lenIf it was me, I would be trying lots of changes. It seems things are pretty automated and so long as you keep the old one around... if it fails is no big deal.17:26
astraljavaThat's true, too.17:27
lenGives me something to test ;-)17:27
astraljavaYeah, I have 3GB, so we should see if it's that.17:27
lenAnyway, I'm supposed to be setting up to play, so I should go.17:27
astraljavaOk, catch ya later then.17:28
Len-liveLive has audio group again... but no rt - audio.conf.disabled22:34
Len-liveCool, pulse-jack bridging worked... not without trouble...22:39
Len-liveWhen i started jack, pulse died. jack showed no pulse. Restarted jack still no pulse. Started pulse mixer, pulse restarted and connected to jack.22:41
Len-livePlaying an ogg through audacious->pulse->jackd->speakers.22:42
Len-livesounds like it may be a timing thing... jack has to be fully up and running before pulse starts.22:43

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