[00:52] <len-1204> We seem to have lost audio group on install today.
[00:56] <len-1204> I am having second (maybe third and fourth) thoughts about installing with the network connected.
[00:58] <len-1204> ubiquity (and the alt installer for that matter) seem to deal badly with intermittent net service.
[01:00] <len-1204> There seems to be no ability to skip over a trouble download. There also seems to be no way of telling the person installing something has gone wrong.
[01:02] <len-1204> I have had the installer hang or crash on me do to download problems 3 or 4 times now.
[01:02] <len-1204> I am about to the point of recommending netless install.
[01:03] <len-1204> This would be a problem for things like ubuntu desktop where they are trying to keep things to cd size.
[01:10] <holstein> len-1204: fine with me
[01:12] <len-1204> US has all the needed stuff on the DVD so the only thing we get from net is flash. (goody :-P ) 
[02:46] <len-1204> Whats the default CLI editor? Nano no more?
[03:01] <holstein> len-1204: should be nano i say
[03:02] <holstein> maybe its just a glitch
[03:06] <len-1204> holstein: I would think that is part of the base install, but all I could find was vi :/
[03:07] <len-1204> I have to think to hard to use vi...
[03:19] <holstein> len-1204: hehe.. i have to RTFM each time ;)
[04:03] <astraljava> It sounds like a problem. Probably the reason is a missing 'ubuntu-standard'. Can you check?
[04:04] <astraljava> Hmm... formal meeting in T - 13 hours.
[04:04] <astraljava> Probably need to go over the agenda.
[04:05] <holstein> i cant make it :/
[04:05] <holstein> gt a concert
[04:05] <holstein> got*
[04:07] <astraljava> holstein: Ok. I have a few topics in mind, so can you go over the agenda and write your opinions prior to that?
[04:09] <holstein> maybe
[04:09] <holstein> ill give it a look
[04:09] <holstein> im with you guys though!
[04:09] <holstein> i still plan on testing
[04:09] <astraljava> I'll let you know in here when it's done from my part.
[04:09] <holstein> and helping get some screenies for the installer
[04:09] <astraljava> Good, good.
[04:30] <len-1204> Synaptic says ubuntu-standard is not installed astraljava
[04:32] <len-1204> no telnet either..but ssh is, different package I guess
[04:33] <astraljava> I think we need to very carefully go over the seeding once again. List the important and essential packages that are missing.
[04:38] <len-1204> astraljava: even inthat package nano is only a recommends.
[04:39] <len-1204> Most of it's depends seem to be there.
[04:44] <astraljava> holstein: len-1204: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2012February5
[04:44] <astraljava> Any other things to discuss?
[04:44] <astraljava> We're running out of time before Feature Freeze sets in.
[04:44] <astraljava> So if anything's urgent, we gotta step on it now.
[04:45] <astraljava> len-1204: Yeah but installing the seeds uses recommends these days, so that _should_ be in.
[04:46] <len-1204> If it goes in the recommends should be speced too. It looks like a lot of work flows are getting dropped.
[04:47] <astraljava> len-1204: What does that mean?
[04:47] <len-1204> The depends don't get nano for example.
[04:47] <len-1204> nano is just recommended
[04:49] <len-1204> There are a lot of apps missing to fill up the work flows.
[04:49] <len-1204> I just looked at the audio workflows, not the video or graphics ones. But they are shorter.
[04:49] <holstein> yup
[04:50] <holstein> i was actually just trying to recruit a CAD guy :)
[04:50] <holstein> we need more video folk
[04:50] <len-1204> The audio workflows page has 20 work flows?
[04:50] <holstein> yeah, its a bit all over the place
[04:50] <holstein> i think the workflow thing has gotten too busy
[04:50] <holstein> but it can be trimmed down
[04:50] <holstein> and the idea is great
[04:51] <len-1204> I do think there should be a recording program a little bit lighter than ardour though.
[04:51] <holstein> sudo apt-get install ubuntustudio-pocasting
[04:51] <holstein> len-1204: im still not sure why audacity is gone
[04:51] <holstein> though it made sense at the time
[04:51] <holstein> audacity seems like a no-brainer
[04:51] <len-1204> I would think so.
[04:53] <len-1204> holstein: I tried sudo apt-get install ubuntustudio-pocasting and also with the d but it says there isn't one.
[04:54] <holstein> len-1204: oh.. sorry
[04:54] <holstein> im just saying, hypothetically, that would be nice
[04:54] <holstein> thats what the work-flows are about
[04:54] <holstein> its a neat idea
[04:54] <holstein> just a little busy
[04:55] <len-1204> Nicer with a gui to deal with it.
[04:55] <holstein> and you can never really please everyone
[04:55] <holstein> its a general idea of what folks would want to use
[04:55] <holstein> think of the MIDI one
[04:55] <len-1204> For me, I would just rather install everything and use what I want
[04:55] <holstein> that could pull in *so* much
[04:56] <holstein> len-1204: i definitely want to clear out some cobwebs
[04:56] <len-1204> It would need it's own menu
[04:56] <holstein> len-1204: they are going in a dock i think
[04:56] <holstein> AWN
[04:56] <len-1204> I would like a cleaner menu.
[04:56] <holstein> i plan on removing it ;)
[04:57] <len-1204> The dock might be ok... but with my screen horizontal takes too much room.
[04:57] <holstein> i like how xubuntu has a dock, but its just a panel
[04:58] <holstein> not that i want that one either, but at least its not an extra package
[04:58] <len-1204> As the screens get wider the height of things starts to matter
[04:58] <holstein> i have a gnome panel with launchers on it on my audio rig
[04:58] <holstein> thats down the side actually
[04:58] <len-1204> like the install slide show xubuntu has goes right off the bottom of my screen.
[04:58] <ailo> The "dock" in Xubuntu is really no different from a gnome panel
[04:59] <holstein> yup, its just an xfce panel
[04:59] <holstein> and it looks fine
[04:59] <ailo> Just that it has become common to edit the panel properties to make it function more like a dock
[04:59] <ailo> You could really have done that in Gnome2 as well
[04:59] <len-1204> I shrink it, vertical it and stick it to the side..... ala unity...
[04:59] <holstein> yup... i basically do
[05:00] <holstein> i just have it on the side
[05:00] <holstein> but, i dont use it much anymore
[05:00] <holstein> i much prefer kupfer
[05:00] <holstein> i dont really use a dock or a panel since that
[05:00] <holstein> but, most folks want a dock or a menu
[05:00] <holstein> and/or
[05:00] <ailo> I hardly make any changes at all since installing Gnome3. 
[05:01] <ailo> I change the wallpaper
[05:01] <holstein> i like how clean my openbox setup is with no menu like that, and no dock
[05:01] <ailo> Not that you can do much to change Gnome3 :P
[05:01] <holstein> ailo: hehe... i was just typing a smart-ass message about that ;)
[05:02] <ailo> I change the clock to 24h and make it show the date
[05:02] <len-1204> Oh another thing to ask at the meeting is why the installer is no longer in the audio group. I thought we fixed that. That and no real time are probably bigger than a lot of other things.
[05:02] <ailo> Yep. Those are essential if you want to call it a multimedia distro in my view
[05:02] <holstein> i think those things are coming though
[05:03] <holstein> the live CD is really new
[05:03] <astraljava> len-1204: holstein: ailo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PrecisePangolin/MissingPackages   is also being linked to from the agenda
[05:03] <holstein> astraljava: cool :)
[05:03] <len-1204> On the install I can edit that stuff, but on the live I can't log out of the session and restart.
[05:05] <len-1204> the lightdm stuff is still broke too.... more broken now as the background has vanished as well.
[05:07] <astraljava> Ok, I made a few examples there, please expand the list as you find them in other work flows, too.
[05:07] <len-1204> Also, the live dvd persistence setup seems to default to startup all apps where they were when you shutdown. Can that be changed?
[05:08] <astraljava> len-1204: It is still broken. I'm going to work on it today. Will probably make it in Monday's or Tuesday's images.
[05:08] <len-1204> If the installer hangs and you reboot you don't even get to the session before the installer starts again.
[05:08] <astraljava> len-1204: That sounds like some session saving mechanism. You don't think users would want that?
[05:09] <astraljava> That's strange.
[05:10] <len-1204> As luck would have it I had an xterm running when it shut down too.
[05:10] <len-1204> But I never got the menu bar or background or any of that.
[05:12] <len-1204> The installer hung because my wireless cycled part way through the install.
[05:12] <astraljava> len-1204: Yeah, that's unfortunate. You could file a bug about that, so we can keep track of it.
[05:13] <len-1204> I did file a bug about the installer hanging. But I could add to it.
[05:13] <astraljava> I have a hard time calling oneiric a recommended release. Going to change that on the wiki and replace it with lucid.
[05:13] <astraljava> len-1204: Yeah a good idea.
[05:13] <len-1204>  ;-)
[05:15] <len-1204> I'd have to reboot though...
[05:15] <astraljava> len-1204: Whenever, it's not too urgent.
[05:16] <len-1204> I still have problems with foo yc20. Lots of xruns and nasty jackd reports
[05:16] <len-1204> even after getting rt working.
[05:17] <len-1204> misses key release messages... sounds real bad. does it work for anyone else?
[05:28] <astraljava> len-1204: I suppose a bug report of that one is in order, too. Probably nothing we can do, but forward it to upstream.
[06:28] <micahg> astraljava: so, about a gmusicbrowser backport, should be fine, one would just need to test gmusicbrowser and remuco-gmusicbrowser with it
[09:32] <astraljava> micahg: Ok, thanks! Sounds good.
[09:34] <micahg> astraljava: you want the new blender now, right?
[10:25] <astraljava> I'm not a graphics guy, but I would assume as much, yes.
[10:51] <astraljava> Does anyone remember the bug number for missing the desktop session in precise? My lp-fu seems to be rusty today.
[16:22] <astraljava> holstein: Anything to say re: agenda?
[16:22] <holstein> astraljava: nah
[16:22] <astraljava> Ok.
[16:22] <holstein> i think  len has the testing down
[16:23] <astraljava> I noticed there were apps added to the page we talked about yesterday, but no additional work flows.
[16:48] <astraljava> T - 15 for the meeting, anybody out there?
[16:48] <knome> i'm *in* *here*
[16:48] <astraljava> *pfft*
[16:58] <knome> astraljava, is the meeting here or at #ubuntu-meeting?
[16:58] <astraljava> Latter.
[16:59] <knome> could lurk in for a while
[17:00] <astraljava> Doesn't seem like there's anything lurk-worthy.
[17:00] <knome> hehe
[17:02] <astraljava> Oh well, snooker starts soon...
[17:02] <knome> mmh.
[17:02] <knome> and the news and sports
[17:02] <knome> see you later :)
[17:02] <astraljava> Later. :)
[17:08] <len> Anything happening?
[17:13] <len> ubuntu-meeting looks dead.... so does here.
[17:15] <len> astraljava: later today, I will try installing all the missing SW to make sure it is installable and at least looks like it runs.
[17:16] <len> I have only i386 machines, so I can't talk for amd64. Anything that doesn't work "out of the box" I would suggest removing that work flow for 12.04.
[17:17] <len> Basically that is what Scott has said anyway.
[17:20] <astraljava> len: Yeah, there's no one around for the meeting.
[17:20] <len> I saw that.
[17:21] <astraljava> len: I plan to install the daily as well, and have a look at the packages, too.
[17:21] <astraljava> I can do amd64.
[17:21] <len> Ok.
[17:21] <astraljava> I'll also test the lightdm-greeter issue, I have the fix pretty much ready.
[17:21] <len> If they load and run put them in.
[17:21] <astraljava> But I don't know how long it takes to get it into the images.
[17:21] <len> Sounds good
[17:22] <len> It seems pretty quick... like next build.
[17:22] <len> Anything that Scott has done has been. Anything that changes seeds goes quick.
[17:22] <astraljava> Yeah, but I want someone more experienced to review it, first.
[17:22] <len> That is not me.
[17:23] <astraljava> I'm thinking Micah or Luke.
[17:23] <len> I'm pretty raw
[17:23] <len> Yeah
[17:23] <len> Try foo yc20 on the amd64 maybe it works there.
[17:24] <astraljava> Yep, I'll fiddle with it a bit.
[17:24] <len> Maybe it likes lots of memory and I only have 1g
[17:24] <len> But it is not usable on either of my machines
[17:26] <len> If it was me, I would be trying lots of changes. It seems things are pretty automated and so long as you keep the old one around... if it fails is no big deal.
[17:27] <astraljava> That's true, too.
[17:27] <len> Gives me something to test ;-)
[17:27] <astraljava> Yeah, I have 3GB, so we should see if it's that.
[17:27] <len> Anyway, I'm supposed to be setting up to play, so I should go.
[17:28] <astraljava> Ok, catch ya later then.
[22:34] <Len-live> Live has audio group again... but no rt - audio.conf.disabled
[22:39] <Len-live> Cool, pulse-jack bridging worked... not without trouble...
[22:41] <Len-live> When i started jack, pulse died. jack showed no pulse. Restarted jack still no pulse. Started pulse mixer, pulse restarted and connected to jack.
[22:42] <Len-live> Playing an ogg through audacious->pulse->jackd->speakers.
[22:43] <Len-live> sounds like it may be a timing thing... jack has to be fully up and running before pulse starts.