[00:27]  * popey hugs andylockran 
[01:06] <exobuzz> christ. im such an idiot.. rested touchpad against a unstable object watching a video. saw it toppling, dived underneath, throwing drink all over myself and the touchpad, albeit saving the touchpad from a hard fall. could be called a good save id it wasnt for my own stupidity in the first place..
[01:07] <exobuzz> hardware seems fine.. well the touchpad.. i think i bruised myself. heh
[01:07] <exobuzz> doh
[01:07] <exobuzz> note to self.. although the loo roll in the kitchen seemed stable, it was a really dumb ass choice of rest..
[02:19] <Azelphur> x5
[02:20] <Azelphur> oops o.O
[07:39] <imexil> Hi, anyone using chromium on ubuntu. I was wondering how I could get the menu bar integration actiavted. (I'm on 11.10)
[07:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> Firefox has just badly starting crashing on me sine it updated to v10 this morning. It won't even let me login to Google ffs, in a new profile :-( Think it'll be a mostly chrome day today...)
[08:45] <daubers> Looks like my car battery needs to be replaced :(
[08:50] <dwatkins> morning folks
[08:50] <dwatkins> daubers: problems starting the car?
[08:51] <daubers> dwatkins: Occasionally it's taking more to turn over :( Trying to trickle charge the battery back to life, but it's not really taking any ampage
[08:51] <dwatkins> daubers: petrol or diesel?
[08:52] <diplo> daubers, Mine gets like that in the winter, especially with the minus degrees we have been getting
[08:54] <dwatkins> I had troubles last winter, turned out my diesel's glow plugs were on their way out so the engine wasn't pre-warming enough.
[08:55] <diplo> Ah that is a good thought
[09:03] <DJones> Morning all
[09:16] <daubers> dwatkins: diesel
[09:16] <daubers> dwatkins: glow plugs where replaced 6 months ago in the service
[09:16] <dwatkins> daubers: oh, hmm
[09:20] <daubers> dwatkins: Battery is possibly 10 years old
[09:21] <popey> does it get used daily?
[09:21] <popey> imexil: menu bar integration?
[09:21] <imexil> hi popey
[09:22] <imexil> yes, I still have the "close" "minimise" and "maximise icons sitting on the tab row and not in the top row
[09:22] <dwatkins> daubers: ah ok, perhaps best to get it replaced, then - you need quite a lot of current for the glowplugs
[09:23] <popey> imexil: hit the spanner and choose settings
[09:23]  * TheOpenSourcerer appears to have just received a large number of new OpenERP leads :-)
[09:23] <popey> imexil: there's an option to use the native theme
[09:24] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: yay
[09:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> ~38 by the looks of it
[09:24] <AlanBell> about that
[09:24]  * popey wonders if Daviey made it back from fosdem
[09:24] <imexil> popey: found it THANKS!
[09:24]  * TheOpenSourcerer thinks the phone may a tad warm for a while.
[09:24] <popey> hmm, hdmi port on x220 doesn't look like standard hdmi
[09:24] <AlanBell> they did manage to pass us one of the other partners as a lead
[09:24] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I saw that ;-)
[09:26]  * brobostigon shakes his fist at all these mono updates in debian.
[09:26] <daubers> dwatkins: yeah, the short commute to work is probably making it a lot worse too
[09:26]  * TheOpenSourcerer makes a tarball of his backed up ff profile from last night. Since this morning (after updating to 10) firefox crashes repeatedly...
[09:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> Looks like it will be a Chrome only day today.
[09:27] <ali1234> updating... to 10?
[09:27] <ali1234> i'm on 11
[09:27] <dwatkins> daubers: yeah, I imagine it might
[09:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: Firefox 11 is not released
[09:27] <ali1234> *shrug*
[09:27] <brobostigon> 11 is beta.
[09:27] <ali1234> it's what i have...
[09:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyway that is moot. Firefox managed to completely break this morning. Badly.
[09:28] <ali1234> does anyone ever use tab groups?
[09:28] <popey> brobostigon: you can uninstall mono if you don't use any mono apps
[09:28] <oimon> how weird. 2 gmail chat windows in chromium were using 60% of cpu
[09:28] <oimon> and 600mb ram
[09:28] <brobostigon> popey: only one i use, it that notetaking app, i cant remember what it is called.
[09:30] <brobostigon> tomboy, that is it.
[09:31]  * daubers doesn't mind mono
[09:31] <daubers> c# isn't a bad language
[09:37] <popey> brobostigon: do you use the sync feature of tomboy?
[09:38] <oimon> tomboy sync  is the main reason i use ubuntu one
[09:39] <brobostigon> popey: yes, i have it synced to a folder in my dropbox.
[09:39] <oimon> brobostigon: does gnote not offer that functionality?
[09:39] <brobostigon> oimon: never tried it, no idea.
[09:40] <popey> no oimon
[09:40] <popey> it doesnt do sync
[09:40] <oimon> how lame
[09:40] <popey> which is why i was asking if brobostigon used the sync feature
[09:41] <oimon> i use docky for mono also, but i understand it's getting rewritten in vala  for elementary
[09:41] <brobostigon> it would be good though, if tomboy could start in login.
[09:41] <popey> it can
[09:41] <oimon> wfm
[09:41] <brobostigon> popey: how?
[09:41] <popey> i have it started at login on my ubuntu machine
[09:41] <popey> dunno on debian, I use unity on ubuntu which has a 'startup applications' thing in the cog in the corner
[09:42] <brobostigon> ok,
[09:42] <brobostigon> there might be something similer for gnome3.
[09:44]  * Daviey did
[09:44] <Daviey> popey: :)
[09:47]  * directhex lands
[09:48] <brobostigon> gnome-session-properties, is the app. :)
[09:56]  * brobostigon wonders what directhex jumped out of, to have landed?
[09:56] <directhex> bed!
[09:56] <gord> hum. went off to make coffee, came back and the computer was asking for my password. just put it in so i could get on with things. possibly not the best with security me
[09:57] <brobostigon> ah, lol. ok. :)
[09:58] <oimon> brobostigon: popey , since you are using dropbox there is a workaround to sync notes with gnote & dropbox, since you can symlink the .local/share/gnote folder in dropbox
[09:58]  * bigcalm summons himself from the afterlife
[09:58] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps
[09:58] <popey> oimon: thats not wise
[09:58] <popey> and expressly not-recommended by the tomboy devs
[09:58] <oimon> why's that? high chance of losing/corrupting data?
[09:58] <popey> yes
[09:59] <popey> and I have experienced exactly that
[09:59] <oimon> :(
[09:59] <oimon> :( :(
[09:59] <oimon> i can foresee a similar position to brobostigon that i only require mono for tomboy in future
[09:59] <popey> yeah, i only use mono for tomboy, but I don't particularly care
[09:59] <popey> its not like there are daily updates to the whole mono stack
[10:00] <brobostigon> oimon: only difference being, there is no folder symlinking, the folder is directly in the dropbox folder.
[10:02] <brobostigon> eeek, seesmic just locked hard on android, and android rebooted.
[10:02] <brobostigon> it did it again, :(
[10:04] <alexcockell> Twitter clients do seem to be the leasiest in memory terms...
[10:04] <alexcockell> *leakiest
[10:05] <alexcockell> Morning, by the way
[10:05] <brobostigon> morning alexcockell
[10:05] <alexcockell> At least Gwibber holds around the same level of memory usage - and seems to be the friendliest client out there...
[10:06] <alexcockell> More hassle inthe Wintel world, tbh..
[10:07] <brobostigon> alexcockell: it is a twitter client, yes, but i was trying to update from identica when it did that.
[10:08] <alexcockell> Ah.
[10:08] <alexcockell> Does Seesmic rely on AIR?
[10:08] <alexcockell> I seem to remember that the desktop version does..
[10:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> Best twitter client for Ubuntu is Hotot IMHO
[10:09] <alexcockell> Is it in the repos?
[10:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> Been using it for months now.
[10:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> alexcockell: It's got a PPA
[10:09] <alexcockell> Ah - are there plans to get it into the regular repos?
[10:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://hotot.org/
[10:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have no idea.
[10:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ask the devs
[10:10] <brobostigon> alexcockell: no idea, but i certainly do not, have adobe air installed here in android.
[10:10] <alexcockell> Cool - does seem to be a hell of a memory sieve at the best of times...
[10:13] <JamesTait> Happy Monday, everyone! :D
[10:17] <Wobbo>  I am trying to view a MP4 (MPEG4-video, 1920x1080, 30f/s) but its stuttering. My mobile has no problems, why doesn't my Ubuntu 11.04 doesn't show it smoothly. Anyone have a tip to solve it?
[10:18] <popey> Wobbo: what video card does your computer have?
[10:18] <Wobbo> an Ati
[10:18] <popey> no idea, sorry.
[10:19] <bigcalm> Your mobile is likely down sampling that resolution
[10:19] <Wobbo> HD 6900
[10:19] <bigcalm> Wobbo: do you have restricted drivers installed?
[10:20] <Wobbo> yep, the onse from ATI
[10:21] <popey> Bah! New laptop is broken.
[10:21] <bigcalm> :'(
[10:21] <popey> boot up and get "2100: Detection error on HDD0 (Main HDD)"
[10:21] <bigcalm> Back to China it goes
[10:21] <popey> i have next business day warranty
[10:21] <popey> they can come out and fix the thing!
[10:21] <bigcalm> Might just be the hdd that's br0ked
[10:22] <bigcalm> You voided that warranty by installing nasty Linux on it. If it's not Windows, it's not legit
[10:22] <popey> er, no.
[10:22] <bigcalm> :P
[10:22] <Wobbo> My laptop is hase nvidia-ion but i am using on-restricted.
[10:25] <Wobbo> My laptop has the same problems.
[10:26] <popey> lenovo support site says "Reset the hard drive". What the hell does that mean?
[10:27] <bigcalm> popey: if the rest of Canonical use that laptop, maybe they should have dedicated support for it ;)
[10:27] <popey> hah
[10:27] <popey> i paid for next day, I'm gonna use it
[10:29] <AlanBell> popey: probably means re-seat the hdd, as in remove it and slam it back in again
[10:29] <directhex> raise it a few feet above the ground at the corect angle, and drop it, to re-eat the memory packs
[10:29] <directhex> also, a small blob of blu-tac can help keep them in place
[10:29] <directhex> it's still the 1980s, right?
[10:31] <bigcalm> Wish it were
[10:31] <bigcalm> Music would be much better
[10:32] <smittix> Morning all
[10:32] <gord> i treat my laptop far too much like my previous netbooks that had ssd's - throw it everywhere, gonna regret it some day
[10:33] <bigcalm> Yup
[10:33]  * popey phones lenovo
[10:33] <gord> just need to get an SSD really
[10:33] <gord> the thinkpad is far too useful as a convenience device to treat it with kid gloves
[10:33] <bigcalm> I treat my Xoom tablet like it'll break if I don't smile at it every day. Very precious about it.
[10:33] <christel> hahaha
[10:34] <christel> you're so weird
[10:34] <bigcalm> :D
[10:34] <gord> hrm.... new idea, put face recognition tech into unity, detect frowns. display placekitten.com pictures every time frown is detected
[10:34] <oimon> TheOpenSourcerer: i use hotot but it does suffer from memory leakage
[10:35] <oimon> and a slightly non-conforming gui
[10:35] <bigcalm> christel: I was the same with my Nexus One when I got it (though I did buy that direct from Google and it cost me a packet). That was some time ago and it's since got quite a few scrapes/dents in the casing. I am a clumsy bloke after all
[10:35] <bigcalm> gord: perfect idea!
[10:35] <gord> i know people who still keep their nexus one in the little pocket you get with it, iruno, i just throw mine in the same pocket as my keys, worked fine so far ;)
[10:36] <shauno> ugh.  half an hour of trying to track down bizarre and seemingly unrelated faults, until I stumbled across a tell-tale 'No space left on device'
[10:36] <bigcalm> gord: I use the neoprene pocket that came with the Nexus One. I'm sure it's saved it from far worse than case dents
[10:38] <gordonjcp> shauno: heh
[10:38] <gordonjcp> shauno: thunderbird silently failing to download emails, sort of thing?
[10:39] <bigcalm> gord: I'm going to be lost without the wee pocket when I replace the handset with an S2 or whatever is available in April
[10:39] <shauno> gordonjcp, not far off, but it was on the server's end.  so thunderbird claiming my password was wrong
[10:40] <bigcalm> logwatch FTW!
[10:40] <bigcalm> Which is a point. Should set it up on my bytemark host
[10:41] <shauno> I left my VPS grabbing some pdfs last night.  apparently completely underestimated their size
[10:44] <ali1234> what ever happened to putting "test pilot" features in to unity?
[10:44]  * brobostigon is concerned, his htc dream, just shutdown, and wouldnt start up again, untill i pulled the battery out, and put it back in again.
[10:45] <popey> lenovo dude sent me to http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/downloads/detail.page?&DocID=DS025448
[10:45] <popey> to download the linux based diagnostics CD
[10:45] <gordonjcp> shauno: lol
[10:45] <gord> ali1234, they got put in to unity?
[10:45] <ali1234> gord: really? why isn't it asking me to submit results then?
[10:46] <ali1234> and where can i see metrics?
[10:46] <bigcalm> popey: customer support that know what they are talking about?!
[10:46] <popey> i suspect this is standard answer
[10:46] <gord> ali1234, submit results?
[10:47] <ali1234> yes, the information gathered?
[10:47] <gord> because we aren't asking people to submit tests?
[10:47] <ali1234> so the feature is there but not used?
[10:48] <gord> it is used
[10:48] <ali1234> used only internally?
[10:48] <gord> its our test suite
[10:48] <gord> pretty much
[10:48] <ali1234> so it's not like test pilot at all then
[10:48] <gord> its auto pilot - its for automatic testing
[10:49] <ali1234> that's the exact opposite of test pilot
[10:49] <ali1234> i'll give you an example of the kind of question test pilot answers
[10:49] <popey> The box you get when a window pops up. Do you call them "Dialog" or "Dialogue"?
[10:50] <bigcalm> I've seen 'dialog' more frequently
[10:50] <popey> i always thought it was 'dialog' in computer speak
[10:50] <popey> like programme/program
[10:50] <ali1234> when you click on an item on the launcher, if there are multiple windows, it first gives you the most recent window of that group. if you click it again, it shows the switcher
[10:50] <bigcalm> It's like having to use program instead of programme
[10:50] <popey> :D
[10:50] <bigcalm> ;)
[10:50] <ali1234> how often is the most recent used window of the group actually thew window the person wants?
[10:51] <ali1234> and how often does the user immediately click on the launcher again because it was the wrong window?
[10:51] <ali1234> (i find myself doing that a lot)
[10:53] <ali1234> another thing you could detect is how often an attempt to resize a window gets blocked by the overlay scrollbar
[10:53] <BigRedS> Is there a step-through debugger for PHP? I have a script that strace tells me is sitting waiting on polling a socket and I'm trying to work out what its doing just beforehand.
[10:53] <BigRedS> it's fastcgi so there's no need to replicate any of mod_php
[10:53] <ali1234> i'd be interested to know how much people actually use the dash as well
[10:53] <ali1234> for each lens
[10:54] <ali1234> and do people select a specific lens before searching, or do they first try the global search, and then switch to a specific lens?
[10:54] <popey> bah, just burned a CD and then remembered the x220 doesn't have an optical drive
[10:54] <popey> *belm*
[10:55] <ali1234> you spelled derp wrong
[10:55] <popey> hope it works off a usb stick
[10:55] <shauno> you broke your new toy already?
[10:55] <oimon> i've found cables become unseated during transit on occasion. internal drive connector and lcd screens too
[10:56] <popey> i have reseated the drive
[10:56] <popey> gonna run diags though
[10:56] <popey> there's not a lot of room for it to become unsteated
[10:56] <popey> given it's a laptop
[10:56] <oimon> but how does the sata slot join to the motherboard ?
[10:56] <oimon> soldered?
[10:57] <oimon> i suppose if yuo're gonna open a new toy up, you might as well get an engineer to do it :D
[10:57] <shauno> on mine, there's not actually space for the sata plug to come unseated; you have to unscrew the drive and remove it from the plug, rather than move the plug
[10:58] <shauno> I'm constantly amazed at how efficiently they manage to use/abuse every last mm in these things
[11:01] <dwatkins> I'm surprised other laptop manufacturers havn't started making them out of aluminium as well as Apple
[11:01] <dwatkins> there's very little room for movement in my Macbook Pro.
[11:02] <popey> yeah, i love the feel of the mbp
[11:02] <davmor2> morning all
[11:02] <dwatkins> I'd like to triple-boot mine when I have a larger disk
[11:02] <dwatkins> hi davmor2
[11:03] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod get up and on line
[11:03] <gord> always felt like macbooks are too big for me, like my laptops tiny
[11:04] <shauno> well, good news, 4 years later, they're starting to catch up to the macbook air :)
[11:05] <popey> and everyone else is copying them
[11:05] <gordonjcp> I don't like small laptops
[11:06] <gordonjcp> I want one with a full-size keyboard with decent travel, and a lot of battery
[11:06] <gord> then you want an x220 ;) tiny laptop, full sized keyboard, lots of battery
[11:06] <gordonjcp> I don't want a tiny laptop
[11:06] <gordonjcp> that's the point
[11:06] <gordonjcp> fiddly annoying things
[11:07] <gordonjcp> I want something with a 22" screen and an IBM Model M type keyboard
[11:07] <gordonjcp> I'm not really fussed if it's a big heavy thing, I'm a big heavy thing
[11:07] <gordonjcp> as long as it's under about 15kg it'll be fine
[11:08] <gord> laptop to me is a portable computer, if its not easily portable i might as well be using a desktop
[11:08] <gordonjcp> well that is easily portable
[11:09] <gordonjcp> I don't particularly care about using one while walking around, I have an android phone for that
[11:13] <dwatkins> My laptop sits on my desk in a docking station unless I want to work from home or take it into a meeting to do a presentation.
[11:13] <dwatkins> It's handy to have the option, but I don't move it very often.
[11:19] <popey> bah, passed diags
[11:21] <oimon> ok chaps - just ordered my valentines card from a moonpig type site which is giving £5 credit away free and no credit card details required if spend is under £5
[11:21] <gord> how romantic ;)
[11:21] <dwatkins> as gord says
[11:22] <popey> not getting one of these then? http://newslite.tv/2012/02/06/asda-launch-7p-valentines-day.html
[11:22] <bigcalm> Tempting
[11:22] <oimon> 7p ? ripoff. i got mine for free :D
[11:22] <dwatkins> or one of these? http://farm1.staticflickr.com/23/37297133_5717d2b86a.jpg ;)
[11:22] <oimon> for a proper cheapskate, you could take a photo of a card you like and upload the photo
[11:22] <bigcalm> Reminds me that I need to book a table at the balti house I proposed in last year
[11:24] <dwatkins> I'm reminded of this reddit comment: "My perfect Valentine's day? I'm at home, three cell phones in front of me, fielding desperate calls from people who want to buy one of the fifty restaurant reservations I made over six months ago."
[11:24] <oimon> heh lol
[11:25] <oimon> takeaways on valentines day are much more romantic
[11:25] <dwatkins> oh sorry, it was from this image: http://i.imgur.com/zUofL.png (SFW)
[11:25] <dwatkins> oimon: indeed
[11:25] <tugrik> heh dwatkins :)
[11:25] <oimon> busiest day of the year for eating out. women must be high maintenance if they insist getting taken out on 14th feb
[11:26] <gord> nooo
[11:26] <gord> it was from the actual tv show >:(
[11:26] <dwatkins> yeah, it's much nicer to choose a random day sometime around then and go out to a quiet restaurant, if you need to go out
[11:26] <oimon> now to find a present :-\
[11:26] <dwatkins> oimon: Big Trak ;)
[11:27] <oimon> with a chocolate on top
[11:27] <directhex> well i just asked wifey what our valentines plans were, she suggested dominos on friday 17th
[11:27] <dwatkins> directhex is very lucky
[11:27] <popey> \o/ pizza
[11:29] <bigcalm> Oh my goodness. A client just renewed their SSL cert on Rackspace. 599 quid for 1 year?!
[11:30] <dwatkins> Must be a dot com.
[11:30] <bigcalm> ?
[11:31] <dwatkins> I assume their domain is something.com, hence the cost.
[11:31] <bigcalm> Oh, is that how it works?
[11:32] <oimon> http://vimeo.com/26489936 << massive waste of paper but quite fun
[11:32]  * daubers tends to cook on Valentines day
[11:32] <dwatkins> I think there are also tiers for the type of verification, whether it's a green thing in the browser or just that https works, bigcalm - not sure exactly.
[11:33] <bigcalm> I see
[11:35] <dwatkins> perhaps it is just the type of certificate that governs the price, but I would expect ISPs to try and make extra cash on popular domain names with this too.
[11:35]  * dwatkins sees the name "Go Daddy" and ignores it entirely
[11:39] <oimon> dwatkins: because of slutty advertising or SOPA?
[11:41] <dwatkins> oimon: initially because their website is like watching the shopping channel
[11:42] <dwatkins> I admit my opnions of them have been coloured by the whole SOPA thing, and the reddit campaign against them, but from what I understand, GoDaddy have done some pretty underhand things, and the guy who runs the company has some questionable hobbies.
[11:52] <ali1234> oimon: nice idea but you know what they say. make something idiot proof and they will build a better idiot
[11:53] <directhex> the elephaqnt hunting?
[11:53] <dwatkins> directhex: that was indeed what I was referring-to, yes
[11:56] <Dave2> Using GoDaddy is a pretty painful experience
[11:59] <shauno> hm, well that didn't last long.  thunderbird is absolutely hopeless :/
[11:59] <dwatkins> new version, shauno?
[11:59] <shauno> appears to be 10, not sure if that makes a difference tho
[12:00] <shauno> there appears to be absolutely zero indication of any new mail within a collapsed thread.  I kinda need a client that can thread :)
[12:01] <AlanBell> it underlines it
[12:02] <popey> yup, underlines the top main the the thread if there is new mail inside
[12:03] <shauno> hm.  I must be going blind then, because I didn't spot that in a full folder
[12:06]  * dwatkins closes the Ally Sheedy tab and winks at shauno 
[12:11] <dwatkins> It's a lovely day to walk to the shop to get some lunch.
[12:11] <brobostigon> it is something like 3/4 degress celcius, and foggy here.
[12:12] <oimon> it seems mac os lion latest update broke cups for our users :-\
[12:13] <dwatkins> oimon: I've heard lots of issues with the most recent Lion updates :-/
[12:14] <ali1234> OS X uses cups?
[12:14] <brobostigon> yes.
[12:14] <AlanBell> very much so, they hired the cups developer
[12:15] <brobostigon> interesting, didnt know that,
[12:19] <daubers> oimon: I thought they pulled the delta update?
[12:20] <daubers> oimon: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2012/02/apple-pulls-crashtacular-10-7-3-delta-update/
[12:21] <mattt> morning
[12:21] <mattt> miserable day here in reading
[12:22] <dwatkins> mattt: I used to live in Reading, it's not got the best weather in the UK, sadly
[12:24]  * dwatkins heads off to wish he brought his sunglasses and observe the Pentland hills whilst walking to Tesco
[12:27] <oimon> daubers: i've had 2 users complaining their printers have pdisappeared and remote queues can't be added after updating
[12:27] <oimon> lion sounds like a complete fail so far, with the amount of issues we've had to look into
[12:28] <directhex> lion achieves its main purpose
[12:59] <gordonjcp> I'm looking for recommendations for a podcatcher for android, if anyone has one
[13:07] <popey> gordonjcp: dogcatcher is the one I hear people mention iirc
[13:08] <gord> just learnt that time team is on youtube provided by 4oD. time to be a nerd i guess
[13:08] <davmor2> gord, mrevell , bigcalm: You set for Thursday?
[13:08] <dwatkins> What is Lion's main purpose, directhex?
[13:08] <mrevell> davmor2, Sure am.
[13:09]  * mrevell checks bus times
[13:09] <gord> davmor2, we'll see, will decide on wednesday. feature freeze is next week so busy
[13:09] <davmor2> dwatkins: surely killing antelope?
[13:10] <dwatkins> davmor2: I see what you did there
[13:10] <directhex> dwatkins, to make the desktop/laptop more ipaddy
[13:11] <directhex> dwatkins, e.g. drag scrolling, the new optional ipad-style launcher
[13:11] <dwatkins> yeah, directhex - I gather it causes issues with some websites, but I guess I can understand the reason for doing it
[13:16] <gordonjcp> popey: righto, I'll give it a shot
[13:16] <gordonjcp> popey: Google Listen falls down badly because it doesn't save the downloaded podcasts in an immediately usable way, and it doesn't stop the device sleeping ;-)
[13:17] <popey> i couldn' get on with google listen
[13:18] <gord> gordonjcp, maybe something that would store in ubuntu one? then you can stream using the u1music app
[13:20] <czajkowski> davmor2: morning
[13:21] <davmor2> czajkowski: Yay how was fosdem prod?
[13:21] <czajkowski> good thanks
[13:21] <gordonjcp> gord: surely then I'd need to keep fiddling with my PC to stick them in U1 to begin with?
[13:21] <czajkowski> got home very  late though
[13:22] <gord> gordonjcp, i figure you would have a cronjob or just a service of some sort that gets them whenever your computer is on
[13:25] <gordonjcp> gord: probably easiest tbh
[13:25] <gordonjcp> sounds like I have an itch to scratch for a first android project
[13:25] <davmor2> czajkowski: dirty stop out :P
[13:25] <czajkowski> davmor2: pesky snow!
[13:26] <czajkowski> 90+ mins delayed
[13:27] <davmor2> czajkowski: yeah, yeah any excuse I had a 4 hour train ride to London due to virgin rail derailment if that makes you feel any better :)
[13:27] <czajkowski> you i london today?
[13:27] <davmor2> no I was there friday
[13:28] <BigRedS> davmor2: they will let you back in
[13:29] <davmor2> BigRedS: well someone has to pick on czajkowski and that is where she is based ;)
[13:36] <bigcalm> davmor2: yes, I'll be there
[13:44] <bigcalm> davmor2: is Alex confirmed?
[13:44] <davmor2> bigcalm: yeap
[13:47] <bigcalm> Please let there be no tab
[13:50] <dwatkins> my boss has lots of chocolate in her office, I think she's trying to tempt us all to go in there and eat it
[13:51] <gord> i have lots of chocolate in my office too, if you come in here, you can not have any of it
[13:51] <gord> its for me
[13:57] <dwatkins> I'm glad gord isn't my boss.
[14:04] <gord> if i were your boss there would be a 10% chocolate tax on your salary
[14:05] <bigcalm> Heh
[14:11] <dwatkins> I would expect to get that much chocolate each month, then.
[14:12] <davmor2> bigcalm: no tab I'll stab moreati before he can suggest it :D
[14:12] <bigcalm> \o/e
[14:12] <bigcalm> -e
[14:13] <bigcalm> It works if everybody has the same drink the same number of times. It doesn't work when Alex's drinks cost more than everybody elses
[14:13] <bigcalm> And we don't all drink at the same rate
[14:17] <bigcalm> Indervidual tabs that one can pay off at the end of the day would be good though
[14:17] <bigcalm> Can pay by card then
[14:20] <davmor2> bigcalm: indeed that may well be the way forward
[14:27] <bigcalm> Other people bring me drinks is something I like
[14:27] <bigcalm> Right now my mug is empty, which means having to go to the kitchen myself!
[14:27] <bigcalm> *sigh*
[14:28] <davmor2> bigcalm: could be worse you could have no water then where would you have to go :P
[14:29] <bigcalm> I keep a bottle of water on my desk. Best start drinking that now
[14:34]  * dwatkins joins bigcalm in the kitchen
[14:36] <bigcalm> Oi, put that coffee back
[14:39] <dwatkins> it's tea actually.
[14:55] <andylockran> hello all
[14:55] <andylockran> :D
[15:40] <oimon> NXEA no longer run my train franchise. i wonder what my chances of getting delay payments from last month are :-\
[16:24] <bigcalm> The fog is creeping in
[16:54]  * popey pokes aquarius in the eye with the notes web interface
[16:54] <aquarius> oi!
[16:54] <aquarius> what was that for?
[16:55] <popey> sadness that we're shutting it down
[16:55] <aquarius> which is why I'm writing a replacement.
[16:55] <aquarius> I'd be happy to have your help :)
[16:56] <popey> :D
[16:56] <Azelphur> sadness is often expressed in eye poking form :P
[16:56] <ali1234> popey: you mentioned the other day setting up a youtube account for canonical. i need to set up something like that... got any tips?
[16:56] <ali1234> did you make a whole google account for it?
[16:56] <popey> i did
[16:56] <popey> i have way too many google accounts
[16:56] <ali1234> what did you put in the "date of birth"
[16:56] <ali1234> and first name/last name?
[16:57] <popey> something over 18
[16:57] <popey> and I made a note of it in case they ever ask me for it
[16:57] <Azelphur> ali1234: have you seen this KDE Plasma tablet? what are your opinions on it? :)
[16:57] <popey> for some of them I just put my own details
[16:57] <popey> assuming it doesn't leak that info in the public UI
[16:57] <ali1234> i don't think it does... thought you might know :)
[16:57] <aquarius> popey, you are welcome to ru your own version of my server if you want, although it's not finished yet. We'll be deploying a hosted version :)
[16:57] <popey> well, for one I put "ubuntu" as the first name and "screencasts" as the last name
[16:58] <popey> aquarius: based on snowy?
[16:58] <Azelphur> popey: just remember not to touch google plus with that account, they can/will suspend the entire google account for using an alias on google plus
[16:58] <popey> Azelphur: no they dont
[16:58] <popey> they have retracted their real names policy
[16:58] <ali1234> yeah that's a whole other issue
[16:58] <ali1234> orly?
[16:58] <popey> yeah
[16:58] <Azelphur> oh? that's news to me
[16:58] <ali1234> not really bothered about not using +
[16:58] <popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16700902
[16:58] <ali1234> nobody involved even knows what it is
[16:58] <aquarius> popey, no. It's not a server you sync to; you still sync to U1, which we are not turning off, as I have stressed in every single comments thread on the whole internet :) This is a web UI which displays your U1-stored notes.
[16:58] <ali1234> we will be using facebook and youtube heavily though
[16:59] <Azelphur> Much better, now I can change mine to Azelphur
[16:59] <Azelphur> Not like anyone knows me by my real name xD
[16:59] <ali1234> Azelphur: the KDE tablet looks OK i guess
[17:00] <ali1234> it's basically a N900 with no phone and a 7" screen and running plasma active
[17:00] <popey>   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
[17:00] <ali1234> which you can run on a n900
[17:00] <popey>  2314 alan      20   0  693m  32m 2704 S    0  0.4   3:10.35 ubuntuone-syncd
[17:00] <Azelphur> ali1234: and better specs :P
[17:00] <popey> *boggle*
[17:00] <ali1234> it's not really that much better
[17:00] <ali1234> also it doesn't use an omap chip, - points for that
[17:00] <ali1234> although i've not looked for docs on the chip it does use
[17:01] <ali1234> plasma active isn't really anything to get excited about either
[17:01] <ali1234> it's another silly new fangled ui
[17:01] <ali1234> except this one is a layer on top of a layer on top of a layer
[17:02] <Azelphur> lol
[17:02] <ali1234> KDE can run multiple UIs at the same time and active is just one of them
[17:03] <ali1234> that's nice cos you can plug in a keyboard and mouse and use it like a nomral computer with a "real" UI (in theory anyway)
[17:03] <ali1234> but on it's own, active is nothing special
[17:03] <ali1234> there's plenty of videos of it on youtube
[17:04] <ali1234> it's very much geared towards panels and widgets that show feeds
[17:04] <ali1234> once you run a real application, it's pretty much just normal KDE
[17:04] <Azelphur> ali1234: yea, I actually have all that on my tablet PC anyway
[17:04] <ali1234> so... what's the question then?
[17:05] <ali1234> is the hardware good?
[17:05] <Azelphur> bodhi linux + e17 = winning for tablets, can switch between an Android-like tablet interface and a Laptop interface
[17:05] <Azelphur> ali1234: haha, you answered the question, was just interested in your views on it :D
[17:05] <Azelphur> is the hardware good is also a good question :D
[17:05] <ali1234> with these nw fangled accelerated UIs, hardware power doesn't always guarantee it will work well
[17:06] <ali1234> just look at unity on nvidia driver for an example of that
[17:06] <ali1234> you can have the high end gaming rig and UI performance is still slugish
[17:06] <ali1234> it depends a lot on driver quality
[17:06] <ali1234> and we won't know that until it ships
[17:06] <brobostigon> ok, question, we as a household create washing up, ie, that is a noun, now, that washing up, is no one's washing up, but a house households. is that interpretation accurate?
[17:06] <brobostigon> or am i just picking logic holes?
[17:06] <Azelphur> suppose so :)
[17:06] <ali1234> wat
[17:07] <ali1234> brobostigon: can you rephrase that question but with correct use of commas? ;)
[17:07] <brobostigon> ali1234: i thought i had used commas correctly.
[17:07] <popey> i think he was pointing out you tend to use a lot of them ☺
[17:08] <popey> depends how you divvy up responsibility
[17:08] <brobostigon> i see, ok, i used commas, where i would naturally break in speech, maybe a ; might be better?
[17:08] <popey> i wouldn't bother ☺
[17:08] <brobostigon> popey: we share the job.
[17:08] <ali1234> what's the question? is this about grammar or trying to avoid doing the washing up?
[17:08] <popey> lol
[17:09] <brobostigon> ali1234: it is not about the job, but the definition.
[17:09] <popey> e.g. for family meal on sunday I cook roast dinner usually and then I wash up as I go, if I am tired at the end sometimes somoene else will offer to do it
[17:09] <popey> or I will do it, tidy up all done
[17:09] <popey> everyones washing up but I did it
[17:09] <ali1234> well i still don't understand
[17:10] <brobostigon> exactly, that is the point, we share it, but it is everyones washing up.
[17:10] <popey> I think what you're trying to do is define it, someone else probably just wants you to _do_ it ☺
[17:10] <ali1234> if it belongs to the household it belongs to the individuals in that group
[17:10]  * brobostigon does his fair share of the washing up, that is not at dispute.
[17:10] <ali1234> otherwise it belongs to everyone and no one at the same time
[17:11] <brobostigon> thank you, that has proven my logic,
[17:11] <brobostigon> i am accurate.
[17:11] <ali1234> again, wat?
[17:12] <brobostigon> ali1234: dont worry, you haven given enough information for me to know my logic was accurate.
[17:12] <ali1234> logic has no place in resolving washing-up disputes
[17:12] <popey> hah
[17:12] <brobostigon> ali1234: there is not washing up dispute, just a dispute about the definition of what is washing up.
[17:12] <popey> bah, openshot is rubbish
[17:13] <ali1234> i don't believe it
[17:13] <Azelphur> speaking of google things, does anyone know how I might transfer a youtube account that is associated with a @gmail account to my google apps account?
[17:13] <brobostigon> ali1234: believe it,
[17:13] <ali1234> there's always a dispute about washing-up
[17:13] <popey> bring in a 250MB mkv, drag to the timeline, sends the computer into swapdeath
[17:13] <ali1234> even if it goes unvoiced
[17:13] <Azelphur> I really hate having to continually account hop for it, the only stuff I can find online says you can unlink your youtube account if it was created before the youtube/google merge, which mine wasn't
[17:13] <brobostigon> ali1234: you maybe right, but we have planned it as shared equally, and it works.
[17:14] <ali1234> lol planning the washing up *never* works
[17:14] <ali1234> popey: i found it quite buggy. i found a bug while making a video demonstrating a different bug
[17:14] <brobostigon> ali1234: it does here, my mind works that way.
[17:15] <ali1234> brobostigon: it will fail the first time someone has a party and invites 20 people round and they create loads of washing up
[17:15] <ali1234> this is the way it goes
[17:15] <brobostigon> ali1234: i dont have such parties,
[17:16] <ali1234> WAT.
[17:16] <ali1234> you should try it
[17:16] <ali1234> because your housemates will
[17:16] <brobostigon> why? it is a mass of confusion and instability, anf noise.
[17:16] <ali1234> i feel it's likely that you will be the one who ends up doing everyone else's washing up :)
[17:17] <ali1234> yes, it's called FUN :)
[17:17] <popey> yes, washing up is fun! :D
[17:17] <ali1234> lol
[17:17] <MartijnVdS> popey: especially if a machine does it.
[17:17] <MartijnVdS> popey: or, lacking a machine, the kids.
[17:17] <Toamsu__> hallo have problem with orange huawei gsm dongle E173, cant connect, also noticed that in network manager missing uk providers, spend three days trying, sorry to bother you people
[17:17] <ali1234> brobostigon: yeah just get a dishwasher
[17:18] <popey> less fun loading/unloading dishwasher
[17:18] <brobostigon> the most fun about washing up, is when a pretty girl walks past the kitchen window,
[17:18] <popey> Toamsu__: hello
[17:18] <Toamsu__> hallo
[17:18] <brobostigon> simple.
[17:18] <brobostigon> sorry,
[17:18] <popey> Toamsu__: the uk network providers _should_ be in there
[17:21]  * brobostigon consults the OED
[17:21] <Toamsu__> popey - they are not, i phoned orange just to check if i have proper settins (usrname, password, APN) to set it manually - i got them but still no luck, the device seems its recogniyed properly but have no clue what is going wrong
[17:22] <popey> Toamsu__: sorry, I dunno, all mine kinda worked
[17:22] <ali1234> mine used to work, then it stopped
[17:22] <ali1234> now does pretty much what you described
[17:23] <ali1234> perhaps because i switched to a different phone
[17:23] <Toamsu__> we used one from 3 no problems with that one but Orange one stil says GSM disconnect
[17:23] <ali1234> it probably needs tweaks for that specific device
[17:25] <Toamsu__> what kind of tweaks, already read a lot over forums, but not clever from that
[17:25] <ali1234> sending different AT commands before trying to connect
[17:26] <Toamsu__> any chance to find somebody who can check it remote someway?
[17:26]  * popey REISUBs his laptop
[17:27] <Toamsu__> when i told Orange support that running ubuntu thez asked if it is windows :-)
[17:27] <ali1234> popey: how's trublr going btw?
[17:29] <AlanBell> Tomasu_: apn for contract should be orangeinternet
[17:29] <popey> ali1234: not had time to work on it recently, thanks for the nudge
[17:29] <AlanBell> Tomasu_: number is *99# username orange password orange (I think)
[17:30] <ali1234> usernames are generally ignored
[17:30] <Toamsu__> i thought and tryed that one - at the helpline told me that is consumerbroadband
[17:30] <AlanBell> most of it is ignored
[17:30] <ali1234> they don't reach the network, PPP is part of the phone stack
[17:30] <Toamsu__> usr - user
[17:30] <Toamsu__> and password - pass
[17:31] <AlanBell> Tomasu_: the other apn settings that network manager should know about are internetvpn and orangewap (but you probably don't want either of these)
[17:40] <ali1234> hmm
[17:47] <MartijnVdS> popey: I tend to go with SSSUUSB, instead of REISUB
[17:48] <AlanBell> I tend to think that things have gone far far too wrong when that happens
[17:48] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: they will have, so putting the keyboard in XLATE mode is useless :)
[17:48] <ali1234> i only need to do that about once a year
[17:49] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: also, killing processes might make things worse
[17:49] <MartijnVdS> and rebooting will kill them ANYWAY
[17:50] <AlanBell> long hold of the power button. Might not be as safe, but I am not in a mood to be nice to the computer at that point.
[17:50] <ali1234> e sends sigterm so that they may shut down gracefully
[17:50] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: yes except that might coerce them to come out of swap
[17:50] <ali1234> and you probably want to kill them before syncing or else they'll just write more stuff to the cache
[17:50] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: and if thrashing swap is the problem... that will make it _worse_
[17:50] <ali1234> swap? what is swap?
[17:50] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: ...
[17:50] <ali1234> buy 16GB of ram
[17:51] <ali1234> there is no fix for linux swap thrashing
[17:51] <AlanBell> popey: so the new laptop is not going so well then?
[17:51] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: My employer won't get me more than 4
[17:51] <ali1234> :(
[17:51] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: and he thinks that's a lot
[17:51] <ali1234> unlucky
[17:51] <ali1234> how do i automatically run a command when i plug in my webcam?
[17:52] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: as your user, or as root?
[17:52] <popey> bug 927755
[17:52] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: as user
[17:52] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: as root -> write a udev script
[17:52] <ali1234> i need to run a pulseaudio command to make it use the webcam microphone for input
[17:52] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: as user -> libudev?
[17:52] <ali1234> i probably need a dbus monitor or something
[17:52] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: but pulse should autodetect/remember that
[17:52] <ali1234> yeah, it doesn't, it never has
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: blame Lennart
[17:53] <ali1234> always
[17:53] <ali1234> bug 640328
[17:53] <ali1234> the workaround is open sound settings and select it every time i turn off and then turn on my monitor
[17:53] <ali1234> or run "pacmd set-default-source alsa_input.usb-046d_0821_A2ABCC10-00-U0x46d0x821.analog-stereo"
[17:54] <ali1234> it's plugged in to the hub on my monitor you see
[17:54] <ali1234> that turns off with the monitor
[17:55] <ali1234> apparently it isn't saved across reboots either but that's slightly less of a problem for me because i never reboot
[18:00] <popey> ali1234: its not so much the fact that it swaps, its that a 15MB video can cause a video editor to use all the memory on a machine
[18:01] <Azelphur> http://www.tuaw.com/2012/02/05/study-ios-apps-crash-more-than-android-apps-do/
[18:01]  * Azelphur runs
[18:02] <Azelphur> quite a big margin too, it looks like iOS has 3x more crashes than Android
[18:02] <ali1234> popey: well yeah, that's a different bug. it's possible to legitimately use swap as well
[18:02] <ali1234> popey: also i'd give even odds on that being caused by gnome-thumbnailer
[18:02]  * brobostigon is being accurate, and has found a collective noun "washing up"
[18:03] <brobostigon> in the OED.
[18:03] <popey> you might want to look up OCD whilst you're there ;)
[18:03] <brobostigon> hmm, yes, in some ways,:)
[18:03] <ali1234> popey: a crafted 10mb animated gif can also exhaust physical memory if you go to it's directory in nautilus
[18:04] <ali1234> and i always forget which directory it is in and do it by accident
[18:04] <ali1234> but 1 app shouldn't be able to take down the whole machine in those circumstances
[18:04] <ali1234> i mean it makes swap kind of pointless if the machine instantly crashes when you try to use it
[18:04] <ali1234> ... and that's why i bought 16GB
[18:04] <popey> heh
[18:05] <ali1234> the anim gif can still kill it though
[18:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Canonical Community Team Google+ Hangout - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/06/canonical-community-team-google-hangout/
[18:15] <Azelphur> damn, shipping import is crazy, buy something for £100 -> £20 shipping -> £40 customs >.>
[18:16] <Azelphur> so should have found a UK seller for that one :P
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Any EU one should do
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: no customs fees intra-EU
[18:37] <ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-16908300 - "popular video on youtube" - slow news day?
[18:38] <jpds> ali1234: Hey, that's some impressive eye-hand coordination.
[18:51] <ali1234> waiting for the whole OS to load back from swap :(
[18:51] <ali1234> it takes significantly longer than just rebooting
[18:51] <ali1234> but i don't want to reopen all my windows
[19:01] <ali1234> what are the units for ulimit -d? (bash)
[19:02] <ali1234> ah kilobytes
[19:08] <zleap> hi
[19:08] <zleap> is anyone here ?
[19:10] <AlanBell> o/ zleap
[19:10] <zleap> hi
[19:10] <zleap> i can't get in to my gui
[19:11] <zleap> i can log in at the console fine,   if I try and do this via the log in screen all i get it taken back to it,  almost as if its trying to start unity or whatever, can't and drops back to login
[19:11] <zleap> using 11.10
[19:12] <AlanBell> tried unity2d?
[19:12] <zleap> how do i switch to a different desktop
[19:12] <AlanBell> the cog icon to the right of your name
[19:12] <zleap> nothing happens if i click that
[19:13] <AlanBell> does a guest session work?
[19:13] <zleap> no
[19:13] <zleap> i have a 2nd user that doesn't work either
[19:14] <zleap> i installed or uninstalled something the other day, as it comes up with a list of stuff it wants to remove along with it,  it tried to remove ubuntu-desktop which someone says is a meta package,  however that team is meaningless to me
[19:14] <zleap> that was it,  tried to remove xchat-gnome and replace with normal xchat
[19:14] <AlanBell> so ubuntu-desktop is a package with nothing in it, but it depends on a heap of important stuff
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> doesn't it Recommend packages these days?
[19:15] <AlanBell> pass
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> ah
[19:15] <zleap> well wheni wanted to remove xchat-gome it has clearly also removed soemthing important
[19:15] <AlanBell> zleap: if you do sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop it will hopefully set everything right
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: It does both, according to apt-cache
[19:15] <zleap> ok
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: some are recommended, others depended
[19:16] <zleap> thanks
[19:16] <zleap> well apt should pull those in with it
[19:16] <zleap> AlanBell, thanks for that,  i was actually going to try that but thought to ask here first
[19:17] <zleap> maybe i should install xfce or some other lightweight wm as a backup
[19:17] <popey> 19:15:54 < AlanBell> zleap: if you do sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop it will hopefully set everything right
[19:17] <popey> that should be sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
[19:17] <popey> (with the caret)
[19:18] <zleap> ohj
[19:18] <AlanBell> that is a funny old syntax
[19:18] <zleap> i just typed it in with oujt
[19:18] <zleap> what does the caret do
[19:18] <popey> yes, it will do something without
[19:18] <czajkowski> Why are Skips (crisps) so hard to find over here, having to have walkers prawn cocktail
[19:18] <czajkowski> so damn odd
[19:18] <popey> without the caret you're saying "install the ubuntu-desktop package"
[19:18] <popey> with the caret you're saying "install the ubuntu-desktop task"
[19:18] <popey> the package is just a metapackage and wont do much
[19:19] <zleap> well its doing something after login now,
[19:19] <popey> the task will pull in everything that normally gets pulled in by an install
[19:19] <zleap> ok iam back with what i should have
[19:19] <AlanBell> the package does pull in stuff
[19:19] <zleap> ok
[19:19] <popey> not always AlanBell
[19:19] <zleap> well its working now
[19:19] <zleap> so what is going on here,  why are packages removing ubuntu-desktop ?
[19:19] <popey> if you removed something which removed ubuntu-desktop this would happen
[19:20] <popey> e.g. if you removed firefox
[19:20] <zleap> hmm
[19:20] <zleap> so if i remove firefox it will remove ubuntu dsktop even though there are other programs that need it
[19:20] <popey> other programs that need what?
[19:20] <zleap> ubuntu-deskto[
[19:20] <zleap> ubuntu-desktop
[19:21] <popey> there are no other programs that require ubuntu-desktop
[19:21] <zleap> ok
[19:21] <popey> but there's a knock-on effect of removing it
[19:21] <zleap> right
[19:21] <AlanBell> zleap: what did it install when you put it back? anything interesting?
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> Heh.. function please { sudo $(fc -ln | tail -n1) }
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> If you put that in bashrc (or run it in a shell), you can do:
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> apt-get install foo
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> Permission denied
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> please
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> <apty output>
[19:22] <zleap> not sure i can't scroll up in a console
[19:22] <popey> shift page up
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> zleap: shift+pgup
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> zleap: but not after switching virtual consoles
[19:23] <zleap> well i am at a normal console
[19:23] <zleap> alt-f1 type console
[19:24] <AlanBell> zleap: I wouldn't worry about it too much, there is stuff in /var/log/dpkg.log to say what it did
[19:24] <zleap> ok
[19:25] <AlanBell> browse if curious, or just carry on with life
[19:25] <popey> +!
[19:25] <popey> and 1
[19:25] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: but i wish nano had a way to request elevated permissions *after* you've edited the file
[19:25] <zleap> ok
[19:26] <ali1234> argh
[19:26] <ali1234> valgrind ran out of memory trying to profile openshot
[19:26] <ali1234> now stuff is getting killed
[19:26] <popey> hah
[19:26] <popey> quelle surprise
[19:27]  * popey hugs OOM Killer
[19:27] <ali1234> ah it's dead
[19:27] <ali1234> Valgrind: FATAL: VG_N_SEGMENTS is too low. Inrease it and rebuild.
[19:46] <diplo> evening all
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> \o
[19:48] <ali1234> ...a smoking gun appears...
[19:48] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: Vell?
[19:54] <ali1234> ah, i think it is stuck in a loop allocating pixbufs
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> maybe not a loop
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> well a loop
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> but on it thinks is useful
[19:54] <ali1234> yeah
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> allocating one pixbuf per frame of video?
[19:54] <ali1234> i have a feeling max_length is negative and it just keeps subtracting from it trying to get to zero which never happens
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> (what happens if you drop a short segment?)
[19:55] <ali1234> it is short
[19:56]  * MartijnVdS hasn't looked at all. You know infinitely more about that code now :)
[19:57] <ali1234> 895679622
[19:57] <ali1234> it's just trying to scale an image to a really silly size for some reason
[20:04] <ali1234> basically it's trying to resize an image to 800 million pixels wide
[20:10] <ali1234> it is doing this because it thinks the clip is 3 years long for some reason
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> Integer underflow? :)
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> (or overflow)
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> or signedness problem?
[20:10] <ali1234> yep, or just bad metadata
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> 32 vs 64 bit?
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> Never trust metadata unless you've measured it yourself ;)
[20:11] <ali1234> actually it's a float value
[20:11] <ali1234> 71654371.0216 (seconds i assume)
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> could still be a flow thing
[20:13] <ali1234> length = self.end_time - self.start_time
[20:13] <ali1234> looks reasonable enough
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> except you clamp that at 0
[20:13] <zleap> back in a while, logging in from other pc
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> in case of le stränge
[20:15] <ali1234> looks like gstreamer or whatever is feeding in garbage
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> no news there then
[20:15] <ali1234> lolz
[20:15] <zleap> back
[20:16] <popey> ali1234: are you using the video I added to the bug report?
[20:16] <ali1234> yes
[20:16] <ali1234> is it 3 years long?
[20:16] <popey> because I notice that the video in totem shows a random length
[20:16] <popey> hah
[20:16] <popey> I can talk a lot, I know that.. but no
[20:17] <popey> totem doesn't know the length until it's finished
[20:17] <popey> this may be a bug in kazam, as it should create a video with decent metadata
[20:17] <ali1234> the length isn't random, it's 71654371.0216 seconds :P
[20:17] <popey> hah
[20:17] <ali1234> or ~800 days
[20:17] <popey> bet it works if you convert it using ffmpeg first
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> popey: bug in kazam, but also in the editor for not coping with it sanely.
[20:17] <popey> or mencoder or whatever
[20:17] <popey> agreed MartijnVdS
[20:18] <zleap> what program can i use to create a usb stick that will allow me to boot in to more than one OS image,  e.g i can use start up disk creator to create a start up dis for 11.10 but if i want to have both say 11.10 and 12.04 what can i use ?
[20:18] <ali1234> this stuff should fail gracefully on bad input damnit
[20:18] <popey> zleap: grub can boot an iso image
[20:18] <popey> zleap: so you can put multiple ISOs on one stick and pick which one to boot from
[20:18] <zleap> ok
[20:18] <ali1234> but can grub be installed onto said stick?
[20:19] <zleap> yes, as it does that when i create a boot disk surely
[20:19] <zleap> start up disk creator seems to copy iso files on to a stick and make it bootable
[20:21] <ali1234> bootable usb usually uses syslinux or whatever it's called these days
[20:21] <zleap> ok
[20:21] <zleap> hmm
[20:21] <ali1234> syslinux can do a menu but i don't know of any tools that set it up for you
[20:21] <ali1234> you have to learn how to make everything by hand...
[20:21] <zleap> ok
[20:21] <popey> http://www.pendrivelinux.com/yumi-multiboot-usb-creator/
[20:21] <ali1234> sweet
[20:21] <zleap> thanks
[20:22] <popey> http://florian.freundt.org/blog/?p=161
[20:22] <popey> lots of guides online
[20:22] <ali1234> er windows only?
[20:22] <popey> that was just the first hit
[20:22] <popey> multiple iso usb stick grub
[20:22] <popey> those are the magic google words
[20:22] <popey> :D
[20:22] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Dev/MultipleISOBootUSBKey
[20:22] <popey> there you go, must be accurate it's on our wiki and written by one of our kernel maintainers :D
[20:23] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[20:23] <mgdm> there's a danger they might know what they're on abotu
[20:23] <ali1234> do i detect some sarcasm?
[20:23] <popey> :D
[20:23] <davmor2> ali1234: on this channel NEVER!
[20:23] <mgdm> "It's on the Internet, it must be true!"
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: that one works great at parties when someone 'read on the internet..'
[20:24] <zleap> ok side question,   netbook has 10.04,  just booted a flash drive with 11.10 if I get it to upgrade it should work right
[20:24] <zleap> rather than going 10.04 - 10.10 - 11.04,
[20:26] <zleap> will have a look at that see if I can get a multi boot pendrive created
[20:27] <ali1234> see if you can get freedos on there with a writable C:\ too, that's what i really want
[20:27] <zleap> that would be good for some of my old dos games,  and getting virtual box to boot in to dos
[20:28] <ali1234> and flashing bioses and stuff
[20:28] <ali1234> iso no good for that, cos you always have to copy another file on there
[20:28] <ali1234> or backup the existing one or something
[20:28] <ali1234> also yu should be able to go LTS to LTS
[20:29] <ali1234> when so 10.04 to 12.04 when it's out
[20:29] <ali1234> directly
[20:29] <ali1234> never tried it myself though
[20:29] <popey> I think last time we recommended people waited till 10.04.1 before trying 8.04->10.04
[20:29] <gord> anyone happen to know of any small devices like jogglers (cheep) but not crap hardware?
[20:29] <gord> want to make myself a nifty clock
[20:30] <ali1234> you want something with OLED for that
[20:30] <Azelphur> gord I made a joggler clock, it didn't come out too well
[20:30] <ali1234> if it's a bedside alarm clock that is
[20:30] <gord> it wouldn't be
[20:30] <zleap> popey, ok,
[20:30] <Azelphur> gord: I came to the conclusion that android, with it's widgets and such, was probably best for the job, but I never did it
[20:30] <gord> i don't need more annoying flashing displays
[20:30] <ali1234> well that's the point
[20:30] <gordonjcp> gord: those Parrot digital picture frames?
[20:30] <ali1234> OLED isn;t annoying - no backlight
[20:30] <popey> gord: chumby
[20:31] <popey> steal Ng's
[20:31] <ali1234> so it doesn't light up the whole room even when displaying black
[20:31] <gordonjcp> gord: ARM7, 320x240 display
[20:31] <ali1234> check out for example, the C7 clock screen
[20:32] <gord> gordonjcp, you can run your own code on them?
[20:32] <gordonjcp> yup
[20:32] <gordonjcp> they just run Linux, there's a magic keypress to bring them up into uboot and run your own stuff
[20:33] <gord> rhrmm
[20:34] <zleap> hmm, it looks like it has 10.04.3 :)
[20:34] <ali1234> ah here we go http://imageshack.us/f/176/scr000055.jpg/
[20:34] <ali1234> the C7 displays that permanently when locked
[20:34] <ali1234> and because it is OLED it uses virtually no power and doesn't keep you awake
[20:39] <gord> OLED is really only a good choice if you want to display very little, in which case, there are off the shelf devices already
[20:39] <ali1234> why?
[20:39] <ali1234> what do you mean by "very little"
[20:40] <gord> not what i have in mind :)
[20:40] <ali1234> OLEDs are much nicer than LCDs for mobiles
[20:40] <ali1234> can't think of a reason not to get one except maybe cost
[20:40] <gord> i'm not using a mobile
[20:40] <gord> i'm not talking about a mobile at all
[20:41] <zleap> brb switching to xchat the proper one
[20:41] <ali1234> so what is wrong with OLED? just can't get a big enough one?
[20:41] <gord> it offers no use for me
[20:41] <gord> for this little project
[20:42] <ali1234> ok let me put it another way, why would you choose LCD over OLED for this project?
[20:42] <zleap_> hello
[20:44] <ali1234> btw, you should stay away from digital picture frames for this stuff, they use ASICs
[20:44] <ali1234> the cheap ones do anyway
[20:45] <gord> because LCD is cheeper and OLED gives me no benefits
[20:48] <zleap_> hi
[20:48] <zleap_> back
[20:51] <zleap_> hi Pernig
[20:52] <Pernig> hey
[20:52] <zleap_> hows it going
[20:52] <Pernig> good thanks :)
[20:52] <Pernig> you?
[20:52] <zleap_> note to self,  xchat shows up in super W
[20:52] <zleap_> i am good
[20:52] <Pernig> super W?
[20:52] <zleap_> onubuntu
[20:52] <zleap_> super being the windows key,
[20:53] <Pernig> ah
[20:53] <zleap> does all sorts of wizzy things in ubuntu / unity / compiz
[20:53] <gordonjcp> zleap: great if you have one...
[20:53] <zleap> yeah
[20:54] <zleap> i take it you don't have a windows key
[20:54] <Pernig> i am using KDE now
[20:54] <zleap_> ah
[20:54] <zleap_> does kde support compiz ?
[20:54] <Pernig> sort of
[20:54] <Pernig> it has its own effects
[20:54] <zleap_> ah
[20:54] <Pernig> i think you just choose between opengl and xrandr
[20:55] <zleap_> cool
[20:55] <zleap_> not seen kde for a while
[20:56] <zleap> ok in a few mins my netbook should be running 11.10 :)
[20:56] <Pernig> nice
[20:56] <zleap> yep
[20:56] <Pernig> are you going to be using Unity on it?
[20:56] <zleap> yeah
[20:57] <zleap> as unity is on my desktop
[20:57] <zleap> it just brings both in to running the same version of ubuntu
[20:57] <zleap> hopefully open arena will also work with my game pad,
[21:10] <Pernig> sounds good
[21:18] <ali1234> gotcha sucker
[21:18] <ali1234> it thinks the video is 0x7fffffff frames long
[21:18] <ali1234> ie -1
[21:27] <popey> hah, nice one ali1234
[21:27] <popey> ali1234: its gstreamer that makes the video in kazam, wonder if it's a gstreamer bug
[21:28] <popey> not stopping gracefully or something
[21:28] <ali1234> dunno. does libmlt use gstreamer?
[21:28] <bigcalm> If an email address is red in Thunderbird, what does it mean?
[21:28] <popey> pass
[21:28] <bigcalm> (while composing an email)
[21:28] <bigcalm> Fair enough :)
[21:28] <popey> that wasnt to you ☺
[21:28] <mgdm> I think it means it's not in the address book
[21:29] <bigcalm> Oh fudge
[21:29] <popey> +1 mgdm
[21:29] <popey> just tested it, and yes, thats it
[21:29] <bigcalm> Humm, the addresses are in my address book
[21:29] <bigcalm> Gmail IMAP isn't tip top then
[21:33] <ali1234> popey: you remember that custom codec deb you have for screencasting? could that be the cause of this?
[21:33] <ali1234> because i think i have that installed on this machine
[21:34] <popey> I'll check in a bit
[21:38] <ali1234> twitter has emailed me a bunch of tweets from people i never heard of :/
[21:43] <ali1234> yes, i'm on twitter. no, i never post anything except youtube videos :P
[21:45] <ali1234> brobostigon: if that's you that just followed me, the captain kirk avatar is apt given earlier discussion of commas :)
[21:46] <bigcalm> Anybody want to recommend a drawing app for Android tablets?
[21:47] <brobostigon> ali1234: :)
[21:47] <diplo> gn all
[21:47] <bigcalm> Night diplo
[21:56]  * mgdm upgrades to Oneiric
[21:57] <bigcalm> Working on the bleeding edge eh?
[21:59] <mgdm> oh yes ;-)
[21:59] <bigcalm> Oh my, this means _nothing_ to me :(
[21:59] <bigcalm> SQLSTATE[HY000]: General error: 102 General SQL Server error: Check messages from the SQL Server [102] (severity 15) [EXEC sp_primary_keys_rowset @table_name = DRV Labels]. Failing Query: "EXEC sp_primary_keys_rowset @table_name = DRV Labels"
[21:59] <mgdm> Ooooh, Vienna
[21:59] <bigcalm> Haha
[22:00]  * bigcalm hunts down some Ultra Vox
[22:00]  * mgdm is too
[22:07] <bigcalm> That is just wrong!
[22:07] <bigcalm> Whomever created this SQL Server database did so with spaces in the field names
[22:09] <bigcalm> doctrine:build-schema (create .yml structure from existing database) is handy, but I don't think I'll be using it in production
[22:12] <bigcalm> I have _never_ seen nano take 100% CPU
[22:12] <bigcalm> What have I done?!
[22:14] <directhex> tried to open a very large file?
[22:15] <bigcalm> Tried to paste a yml text file into it
[22:16] <bigcalm> The finished file was 48K
[22:16] <bigcalm> Most confusing
[22:33] <AlanBell> ali1234: http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/615 datasheet
[22:35] <AlanBell> oh :( without the bits you wanted
[22:35] <AlanBell> There are a number of peripherals which are intended to be controlled by the GPU. These are
[22:35] <AlanBell> omitted from this datasheet. Accessing these peripherals from the ARM is not recommended.
[22:35] <AlanBell> that is bad right?
[22:36] <ali1234> dunno. need to read it
[22:37] <ali1234> looks pretty good to me
[22:37] <ali1234> it covers all that stuff about the MMU and the basic peripherals
[22:38] <AlanBell> it looks like something I would have read from cover to cover when I was about 12
[22:39] <ali1234> erm.. yeah
[22:39] <ali1234> that's exactly why it is needed
[22:39] <AlanBell> not sure I have the dedication for it now :)
[22:39] <ali1234> it's only 205 pages
[22:40] <ali1234> the atmega8 datasheet is 550 pages and that's an 8 bit MCU with less peripherals
[22:40] <gordonjcp> :-)
[22:40] <gordonjcp> the STM32F100 is only about 300 pages
[22:43] <ali1234> the omap3430 one is about ... 3430 pages by an odd coincidence
[22:43] <ali1234> that's a comparable chip, that datasheet also doesn't cover the GPU
[22:44] <AlanBell> does size matter?
[22:44] <ali1234> well it gives an indication of the completeness
[22:44] <ali1234> i'm amazed we got anything to be honest
[22:45] <ali1234> it looks like this has everything i need... that is uart, i2c and spi stuff. and gpio muxing
[22:50] <ali1234> here we go. max spi clock = Fclk/4
[22:50] <ali1234> that's pretty damn fast
[22:52] <ali1234> looks like i2c max clock is Fclk/2 which is insane
[22:53] <mgdm> what you got in mind, out of nosiness?
[23:11] <bigcalm> I was about to argue with a friend on Facebook, but then I realised that I would be "arguing on the internet". Stopped myself just in time
[23:12]  * dwatkins gives bigcalm 1000 internet points
[23:12] <bigcalm> \o/
[23:12]  * bigcalm sleeps now
[23:20] <ali1234> mgdm: nothing much really. it's just that these interfaces are very useful and flexible
[23:20] <ali1234> for example, you could control a bunch of openservos off the i2c
[23:20] <ali1234> and a display panel on spi
[23:20] <ali1234> or touch screens etc
[23:21] <ali1234> you could attach all that stuff on USB but USB is pretty horrible when the devices are native i2c or spi
[23:21] <ali1234> makes everything slow due to buffer bloat etc
[23:21] <ali1234> now technically you don't need the datasheet for that cos there are drivers
[23:22] <ali1234> but if you only have a driver and it doesn't work... well then the first thing you have to do is reverse engineer the driver
[23:22] <mgdm> yeah
[23:22] <ali1234> i see the table of alternate gpio functions here so we can use jtag on it
[23:22] <mgdm> handy
[23:22] <ali1234> including the gpio
[23:23] <ali1234> er, gpu
[23:23] <ali1234> i've a plan to reverse engineer the instruction set
[23:23] <ali1234> there's a binary of the gpu OS on the internet... it's compiled with debug symbols
[23:24] <mgdm> oh aye
[23:24] <ali1234> it should be simple to copy and paste functions around until you have the minimal "hello world on uart" code
[23:24] <ali1234> and from that, given that the datasheet contains things like memory mappings it should be possible to work out the addresses that code is writing to
[23:24] <ali1234> and then you've also got the write memory opcode :)
[23:24] <ali1234> and so on
[23:25] <ali1234> then you can use jtag to figure out the rest
[23:26] <ali1234> this datasheet confirms that the "GPU" is in fact a real CPU core as well
[23:26] <ali1234> if you read between the lines anyway
[23:26] <mgdm> interesting
[23:34] <ali1234> the memory mapping of the "VC CPU BUS" smells an awful lot like MIPS to me
[23:39] <ali1234> the uart has a flexible baudrate controller.. that means it can do midi without complex hardware
[23:42] <mgdm> ooh, shiny
[23:44] <ali1234> wait
[23:45] <ali1234> how does it produce audio?
[23:45] <ali1234> oh there's a jack, ok
[23:46] <ali1234> ok so here's an example of something that you can build only with the datasheet
[23:48] <ali1234> you could probably make a quite nifty midi sampler with a touchscreen
[23:48] <ali1234> ok, you could have done it with a usb midi adapter, but those suck *and* they cost more than the pi
[23:50] <ali1234> and if you want it cheap, you don't need the touchscreen... just run a lot of buttons off shift registers on spi
[23:51] <ali1234> and a cheap character lcd
[23:53] <AlanBell> ali1234: I think at one point eben was thinking of making a VGA port off the audio circuits
[23:53] <ali1234> er... no
[23:53] <AlanBell> or some unconventional part of it
[23:53] <ali1234> there is an interface for displays
[23:53] <ali1234> undocumented though
[23:54] <ali1234> but it's for large panels
[23:54] <ali1234> it's similar to the LVDS interface for laptop displays
[23:56] <ali1234> (in that it is for interfacing directly with the panel rather than the connectors you get on full displays)