| tjagoda | Apparently | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| tjagoda | 3 million downloads per day from appworld now | 00:02 |
| tjagoda | Not as shabby as the stats once were | 00:03 |
| jrwren | snap-l: Windows Phone 7 | 00:06 |
| snap-l | jrwren: Hell no | 00:30 |
| tjagoda | He said that just to troll =P | 00:34 |
| * tjagoda writes off WIndows phone like other people write off Blackberry | 00:34 | |
| jrwren | i write off win phone too. | 01:21 |
| jrwren | but if iphone is a no, and android is a no... I think winphone is 3rd. | 01:21 |
| jrwren | i sure as hell wouldn't want a BB | 01:21 |
| rick_h | jrwren: I want to map() over a list and if any returns false come back with a single false value, what is the name of the thing I'm thinking of? | 01:26 |
| jrwren | but if none are false you want the result to be the list of newly built things? | 01:27 |
| rick_h | no, basically True | 01:27 |
| rick_h | have a list of checks, want to process and see if anything comes up false else we're golden | 01:27 |
| jrwren | i only know the .net terminology :( | 01:27 |
| jrwren | All() | 01:28 |
| rick_h | I think I'll just do it via reduce() and go there | 01:28 |
| rick_h | jrwren: ah, that makes sense | 01:28 |
| jrwren | it is a reduce | 01:28 |
| jrwren | so that is a good place to go | 01:28 |
| rick_h | yea, don't think YUI has a built in for it | 01:28 |
| jrwren | prolly not | 01:28 |
| rick_h | jrwren: yea, the Y.Array stuff has some "truthy" checks but it's more "process until you get a non-truthy then quit procoessing" | 01:29 |
| rick_h | ok, well this is depressing: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/03/the-fireplace-delusion-a-metaphor-for-religious-belief.html | 01:40 |
| snap-l | rick_h: Yep, the human race has a lot of gree grees | 01:47 |
| snap-l | http://www.thefreedictionary.com/grigri | 01:47 |
| jrwren | its a strawman. | 01:52 |
| jrwren | "obvious harm to our health and environment" is a load of b.s. | 01:52 |
| jrwren | what harm to either of those? | 01:52 |
| jrwren | show me hte science for that. | 01:52 |
| jrwren | there is none. | 01:52 |
| jrwren | but it is nice to hear an athiest talking about how religeous athiests can be. | 01:53 |
| snap-l | jrwren: Well, there is something to be said for not maintaining something burning in your house | 01:56 |
| jrwren | why? | 01:56 |
| jrwren | the gas at my stove burns | 01:56 |
| jrwren | and in my furnace | 01:56 |
| jrwren | i maintain them both regularly | 01:56 |
| jrwren | the writer is an asshole. | 01:57 |
| snap-l | No, he's creating a strawman | 01:57 |
| jrwren | yes, but i don't like his style. | 01:57 |
| jrwren | he comes off as an asshole. | 01:57 |
| snap-l | Ever encountered a militant athiest? | 01:57 |
| jrwren | yes | 01:57 |
| jrwren | my wife is practically one :p | 01:57 |
| snap-l | They're pretty much like militant religious folks | 01:58 |
| jrwren | i try not to call her stupid to her face. | 01:58 |
| jrwren | yes, they are. | 01:58 |
| jrwren | atheism is a religion. | 01:58 |
| snap-l | Oh yeah | 01:58 |
| jrwren | fundies | 01:59 |
| jrwren | not much different from fundamnetalist christians or islamists | 01:59 |
| jrwren | someday there will be a group of atheists killing people, just like jihadists | 02:00 |
| jrwren | or terrorizing people like westboro nutters | 02:00 |
| snap-l | OK, Is everyone ready for a meeting? | 02:00 |
| snap-l | We have a lot coming up in the next few months | 02:01 |
| jrwren | oh no is that now? | 02:01 |
| jrwren | what a terrible prequel :) | 02:01 |
| snap-l | http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/318/detail/ | 02:01 |
| snap-l | First order of business | 02:02 |
| snap-l | A2 Hosting partnership | 02:02 |
| rick_h | meeting? | 02:02 |
| snap-l | Got contacted by Brd Litwin of A2 Hosting to sponsor the Ubuntu MI grou | 02:02 |
| rick_h | ruh roh... | 02:02 |
| snap-l | p | 02:02 |
| rick_h | whoa? interesting | 02:02 |
| snap-l | The text of the mail is in the agenda item | 02:03 |
| jrwren | lets negotiate! | 02:03 |
| snap-l | Brad has also contacted MUG for sponsorship | 02:03 |
| rick_h | heh, ok reading | 02:03 |
| jrwren | tell him sure, as long as the group can have a free VPS :p | 02:03 |
| rick_h | hmm, is this out of CHC you think? | 02:03 |
| snap-l | On the surface I think there's not much we can do for each other | 02:03 |
| rick_h | or just form letter? I don't know I'd considered teh loco a web dev org | 02:03 |
| snap-l | It's a form letter | 02:03 |
| snap-l | MUG got exactly the same thing | 02:04 |
| rick_h | yea, I mean I don't think the Loco has much hosting needs | 02:04 |
| jrwren | both are true. | 02:04 |
| rick_h | I think other groups like MUG and such are a better place for referrals/etc | 02:04 |
| brousch | wait, is this a meeting? | 02:04 |
| jrwren | i also don't know how many referals we would make. | 02:04 |
| snap-l | Yeah, I think the best we could do is refer people to A2 | 02:04 |
| jrwren | I mean, I could make personal referals and say "tell 'em ubuntu mi sent ya" | 02:04 |
| rick_h | right, I mean what would we do? Have the A2 hosting ad moment at group meet ups | 02:05 |
| snap-l | but we have our own hosting through Canonical, and we have no treasury | 02:05 |
| rick_h | snap-l: +1 | 02:05 |
| jrwren | no treasure is key I think, and we should keep it that way. | 02:05 |
| rick_h | jrwren: +1 | 02:05 |
| jrwren | maybe we could refer them to more A2 centric groups? AACS and the like? | 02:05 |
| rick_h | woot, love just +1'ing other people | 02:05 |
| rick_h | exactly, I think MUG is a great fit | 02:05 |
| rick_h | snap-l: isn't mug already hosted on A2? | 02:06 |
| snap-l | jrwren: Yeah, I think AACS would be a better fit | 02:06 |
| snap-l | rick_h: Yep, and we're paid for 3 years | 02:06 |
| rick_h | yep, AACS and is that AA web dev group still around? | 02:06 |
| snap-l | but Jim is checking into it | 02:06 |
| jrwren | a2div is not around, but there is a new a2 node group. | 02:06 |
| rick_h | snap-l: yea ok cool. I'd say we just respond with a "that's awesome, we don't really fit but have you checked out the following..." | 02:06 |
| snap-l | Do you folks have contact information for the other groups? | 02:07 |
| rick_h | and lead to other groups as a nice thing for an "area" business | 02:07 |
| jrwren | i have contact info for all the groups mentioned so far. | 02:07 |
| rick_h | ooh, I should pull up the guy for the detroit dev days stuff | 02:07 |
| jrwren | i don't know about other groups... BUT | 02:07 |
| jrwren | we could ask him to donate the $85 to the linux foundation. | 02:07 |
| rick_h | in case of referral? | 02:08 |
| jrwren | yes | 02:08 |
| jrwren | it would be kind of cool to raise money for a linux nonprofit | 02:08 |
| snap-l | jrwren: Would you send me the contact info for the AACS and the A2 Node group? | 02:08 |
| jrwren | snap-l: pm ok? | 02:09 |
| snap-l | (e-mail) ;) | 02:09 |
| jrwren | k | 02:09 |
| snap-l | tx | 02:09 |
| snap-l | OK, anything else on that? | 02:09 |
| snap-l | (getting folks fired up. :) ) | 02:10 |
| snap-l | Moving on, then to item #2: Penguicon | 02:10 |
| snap-l | And the release party | 02:10 |
| snap-l | release party is at Penguicon this year, as it was last year | 02:10 |
| snap-l | The hotel liason is aware of this, so I think the only thing we need to do is show up at the bar area | 02:11 |
| snap-l | I'm not sure how well it'll accomodate folks. If it gets too big, we'll figure something else out | 02:11 |
| snap-l | as always, hotel rules trup the party | 02:11 |
| snap-l | trump, rather | 02:11 |
| jrwren | i don't know if anyone heard, but the PC tech track is in need of speakers | 02:12 |
| jrwren | tech track has been weak the past few yrs and they are looking to bring back some good stuff | 02:12 |
| snap-l | We've also been asked to do a panel discussion for Precise Pangolin | 02:12 |
| snap-l | I'll send out a separate e-mail to ask for volunteers for that | 02:13 |
| snap-l | But yes, Penguicon is in dire need of a tech track | 02:13 |
| snap-l | PCon is like stone soup in that regard. The more tech folks that come forward, more tech folks volunteer to show up | 02:14 |
| jrwren | truth | 02:14 |
| snap-l | So, if you have any inkling of ideas you'd like to present at PCon (rick_h) please contact them. | 02:14 |
| * rick_h whistles dixie... | 02:15 | |
| jrwren | maybe BZR for the git junkie | 02:15 |
| rick_h | bah, ok I'll look forward to the email and look into it | 02:15 |
| snap-l | I'm debating on presenting the podcast talk again, with a little more focus | 02:15 |
| rick_h | meh, I can talk on shell, vim, JS testing, ORM fun, whatever | 02:15 |
| tjagoda | do vim | 02:15 |
| rick_h | I'll check the dates and figure something or two out I guess | 02:15 |
| brousch | now that canonical owns you you have to talk ubuntu | 02:15 |
| snap-l | rick: tech@penguicon.org | 02:16 |
| tjagoda | Its the hardcore stuff that's cool | 02:16 |
| brousch | rick_h could just sit there for an hour and code | 02:16 |
| rick_h | hah | 02:16 |
| snap-l | The zen of code | 02:16 |
| brousch | bring the loud keyboard for best effect | 02:16 |
| jrwren | performance coding is real, if you haven't seen it, look it up | 02:17 |
| rick_h | "keyboarding for the geek with tastes" | 02:17 |
| snap-l | OK, so any other thoughts on PCon? | 02:17 |
| rick_h | no, was secretly hoping it didn't coincide with release party this year :P | 02:17 |
| snap-l | rick_h: Yeah, good luck with that. :) | 02:17 |
| * snap-l doesn't let on that his secret goal is to see rick_h partying with pirates. | 02:18 | |
| tjagoda | If I still have this job @ Penguicon I probably won't be at this Penguicon | 02:18 |
| snap-l | tjagoda: Work on that. | 02:18 |
| jrwren | http://prog21.dadgum.com/28.html http://impromptu.moso.com.au/gallery.html :) | 02:18 |
| snap-l | OK, Moving on to item #3 | 02:19 |
| snap-l | Global Jam is coming up | 02:19 |
| snap-l | like REAL SOON NOW | 02:19 |
| snap-l | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam | 02:19 |
| snap-l | jrwren: Is SRT available for that weekend? | 02:20 |
| jrwren | tentative yes. I need to confirm | 02:20 |
| jrwren | SRT almost never has weekend things going on, so it should be easy to secure | 02:21 |
| snap-l | OK, awesome | 02:21 |
| snap-l | LMK if that falls through | 02:21 |
| jrwren | ok | 02:21 |
| snap-l | s/M/U/ | 02:21 |
| snap-l | Thinking we could do what we did before with a 12-5pm jam | 02:22 |
| snap-l | That seemed to work out OK | 02:22 |
| rick_h | yea, works for me | 02:22 |
| jrwren | sounds good | 02:22 |
| rick_h | bah, except I've got family in town now that I load hte page | 02:22 |
| rick_h | well maybe...hmmmm | 02:23 |
| snap-l | Bring 'em down | 02:23 |
| snap-l | http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1526/detail/ | 02:24 |
| snap-l | That's the event info | 02:25 |
| brousch | can you put it on the ubuntu-michigan calendar? | 02:25 |
| snap-l | More details forthcoming | 02:25 |
| snap-l | That is the Ubuntu MI calendar. :) | 02:25 |
| snap-l | Anything else we need to talk about the jam in here? | 02:27 |
| snap-l | OK, last item: | 02:28 |
| snap-l | SWAG for upcoming events | 02:28 |
| snap-l | I have failed to ask about this | 02:29 |
| snap-l | (sad trombone) | 02:29 |
| snap-l | I will send out a mail to enquire about this | 02:29 |
| snap-l | That's all I have | 02:30 |
| snap-l | any other business? | 02:30 |
| snap-l | brousch: One thought: is West MI planning on coming to Ann Arbor? | 02:32 |
| brousch | i will try to come out for bug jam. probably have our own release party at the weekly grlug meeting | 02:33 |
| snap-l | OK | 02:33 |
| snap-l | Please put the release party for GRLUG on the calendar whenyou get a chance. | 02:33 |
| brousch | oh, right | 02:34 |
| snap-l | OK, unless there's anything else, I think w can call this a meeting | 02:40 |
| snap-l | Thank you, everyone1 | 02:40 |
| jjesse | we had a meeting on super bowl sunday? | 02:40 |
| snap-l | We're geeks | 02:40 |
| jjesse | hahaha | 02:40 |
| snap-l | It's just another sunday | 02:40 |
| jjesse | you're missing some great commericals | 02:41 |
| snap-l | Pardon me while I don't give a shit. :) | 02:41 |
| jjesse | wow | 02:41 |
| jjesse | just trying to be funny, guess i'll crawl back under my rock | 02:41 |
| snap-l | jjesse: Sheesh, don't take me seriously. :) | 02:41 |
| jjesse | :) | 02:41 |
| _stink_ | heh - i didn't watch a single minute of the game. usually i would | 03:28 |
| _stink_ | i don't even know if it's done yet. | 03:28 |
| rick_h | heh done | 03:29 |
| _stink_ | i do have it DVRed, but uh, i'd have to zip through it tonight or avoid all media and humans tomorrow to keep the result a secret until i watch it | 03:36 |
| _stink_ | that's the good thing about recording overseas soccer games | 03:37 |
| _stink_ | no one wants to talk about them | 03:37 |
| greg-g | recording what? | 03:37 |
| _stink_ | my wife said something about Madonna | 03:38 |
| _stink_ | :P | 03:38 |
| greg-g | oh, that's who played the crypt keeper tonight? | 03:43 |
| _stink_ | hehe | 03:44 |
| greg-g | (joke wasn't mine, saw it flow along the twitterstream) | 03:46 |
| _stink_ | thanks, DVR! i just watched it in about 40 minutes. | 04:38 |
| nate22 | any ladies near ann arbor | 10:07 |
| rick_h | morning | 11:35 |
| snap-l | GOod morning | 11:49 |
| brousch | the subaru tranny troubles have been temporarily fixed with a $5 bottle of tranny stop leak | 12:40 |
| brousch | i alsways though that stuff was snakeoil | 12:40 |
| rick_h | hah | 12:40 |
| brousch | my mechanic explained to me how it might actually work for a few months | 12:44 |
| brousch | A rubber bushing was down deep in the tranny is worn. The snakeoil swells the bushing so it seals again. It should work until it wears farther. | 12:49 |
| rick_h | cool | 12:49 |
| brousch | yeah, now we can at least have both cars while we shop for a new one | 12:51 |
| rick_h | man, now I'll have to start thinking nice things about dreamhost: http://blog.doughellmann.com/2012/02/moving-to-dreamhost.html | 13:08 |
| brousch | finally someone who can get them off of py2.5 | 13:10 |
| rick_h | heh, I guess this next version of django will be the last to support 2.5 | 13:10 |
| rick_h | so I think that'll prod a lot of people to finally move if you can't run django | 13:11 |
| brousch | i don't think 1.4 will support 2.5 | 13:11 |
| brousch | so i think the current version is the last | 13:12 |
| brousch | nope, you're right | 13:13 |
| brousch | django 1.4 will support python 2.5 | 13:13 |
| rick_h | yea, I was following hte conversation on twitter over the weekend | 13:14 |
| brousch | GAE finally bumped up to 2.7 | 13:14 |
| snap-l | Nice to see Doug Hellman moving to Dreamhost | 14:02 |
| rick_h | yea, interesting | 14:02 |
| brousch | use my referral code if you join up! | 14:16 |
| snap-l | I'm not that crazy. :) | 14:18 |
| brousch | not crazy enough to use my code, or not crazy enough to use dreamhost? | 14:22 |
| snap-l | the latter | 14:26 |
| brousch | :P | 14:28 |
| brousch | wow. just wow http://debbiespenditnow.com/ | 14:37 |
| snap-l | What was the point of that? | 14:38 |
| brousch | the whole page is wow | 14:38 |
| brousch | i can't believe it's not a spoof site | 14:40 |
| snap-l | OK Pythonistas: what's the best way to use a sqlalchemy model between tests? Test Suite? | 14:55 |
| snap-l | Using nosetests to run the whole shebang, but want to set up the models and test them first before testing other code | 14:55 |
| snap-l | Hm, maybe fixture will do the trick | 15:00 |
| rick_h | snap-l: using migrations? | 15:53 |
| rick_h | snap-l: you're onto one of the great debated topics of testing | 15:59 |
| rick_h | there's a ton of ways to go and all depends on what you're testing | 15:59 |
| snap-l | Yeah, I think I'm just going to repeat myself | 16:00 |
| rick_h | ?? | 16:00 |
| rick_h | repeat yourself? | 16:00 |
| snap-l | was going to see if I could re-use the code that I'm using to test the models to test the mailing | 16:01 |
| snap-l | since the mailing piece uses the same database as the model test | 16:01 |
| rick_h | well ideally you'd feed the mailing tests non-model bits | 16:01 |
| rick_h | that doesn't need to touch a database | 16:01 |
| rick_h | ideally your mailing code is taking as a parameter a list of objects that you can just send fakes in | 16:01 |
| rick_h | and not talking to the db directly | 16:02 |
| snap-l | The mailing bits read from the database, though. | 16:02 |
| snap-l | Feh | 16:02 |
| rick_h | boooo :P | 16:02 |
| snap-l | What started off as a nice little script is turning into a refactoring mess | 16:02 |
| rick_h | always always write a wrapper api over the sqlalchemy code | 16:03 |
| snap-l | just so it can be tested | 16:03 |
| rick_h | well, you'll be glad for it later | 16:03 |
| snap-l | Yeah, thanks doc. | 16:03 |
| rick_h | go ask john how easy that staples crap was | 16:03 |
| rick_h | ugh, /me grumbles some more on that | 16:03 |
| snap-l | So, waitaminute | 16:04 |
| rick_h | snap-l: it's the old case for the Mgr class stuff you see in bookie we chatted about before | 16:04 |
| rick_h | it's easy to mock that out for tests | 16:04 |
| snap-l | the correct way to test something like this is to mock out the database? WOuldn't it be easier to load fake data into sqlite's memory database and test that? | 16:04 |
| rick_h | that's one way, but fragile | 16:05 |
| rick_h | the *right* way is to mock the database object you send to the mail code | 16:05 |
| snap-l | Jesus, python people are strange. ;) | 16:05 |
| rick_h | so you've got an object that you're mailing "MailUsers" that has things on it like name, age, etc | 16:05 |
| rick_h | then you'd mock outa MailUsers object, set ame, age values, and then pass it to the email code | 16:06 |
| rick_h | so don't think of it as mocking the database, but mocking the result set or returned value | 16:06 |
| snap-l | Except the e-mail code will be mocked out so it doesn't send anything to anyone | 16:06 |
| snap-l | This mockery will not stand! | 16:06 |
| rick_h | well that's only the last smtp part | 16:06 |
| rick_h | you're not going to mock out the building of the email object, checking headers set right, checking titles are formatted correctly, etc | 16:06 |
| snap-l | No, just the last piece | 16:07 |
| snap-l | "sending out the mail" | 16:07 |
| rick_h | it's another case of hard without seeing the code | 16:07 |
| rick_h | but right, you want to test only the part of code that's under test | 16:07 |
| rick_h | you don't want things like models breaking your email test | 16:07 |
| rick_h | that's why what you're trying to do is bad | 16:07 |
| rick_h | "how can I test my models before I test other code that's going to use those..." | 16:07 |
| rick_h | sign of fail | 16:07 |
| * snap-l mutters something about regexes and two problems. | 16:08 | |
| * snap-l mutters something else about mocking objects and two problems. | 16:08 | |
| rick_h | heh | 16:10 |
| rick_h | well but that's why it's done a ton of ways | 16:10 |
| rick_h | some people do sqlite in memory dbs | 16:10 |
| rick_h | some people have dbs with known start data | 16:10 |
| rick_h | but eventually maintaining those gets hairy | 16:10 |
| rick_h | and if you're not deploying to sqlite...well now how do you run tests against mysql,e tc | 16:11 |
| snap-l | You use sqlalchemy and abstract away the database like a good developer. ;) | 16:11 |
| rick_h | right, but in Bookie code I've got queries, built with sqlalchemy, that failed in pgsql but passed sqlite | 16:12 |
| rick_h | it's not 100% | 16:12 |
| rick_h | see anything datetime related | 16:12 |
| rick_h | or boolean | 16:12 |
| brousch | interesting. i think i would use a sqlite DB too | 16:13 |
| brousch | but i'm as leet as the fungus under rick_h's pinky toenail | 16:13 |
| rick_h | there's all kinds of ways, there's just keeping things in the sqlalchemy session and never committing | 16:14 |
| rick_h | basically you start a session, do work, test, rollback | 16:14 |
| rick_h | there's fake dbs, there's mocking out things, there's full production dbs that you run tests against | 16:14 |
| rick_h | anyway, the most *right* solution, but a pita as well is to make sure your appliaction code uses generic "objects" and those generic objects are a layer that talks to the db/orm so that you've got a middle layer to split along, mock, and test. | 16:17 |
| rick_h | it also makes things like changing ORMs and such much much easier and refactoring nicer | 16:17 |
| brousch | changing orms? | 16:18 |
| snap-l | I already chose the One True ORM, and now you're talking about changing it? | 16:18 |
| snap-l | sheesh | 16:18 |
| snap-l | that's it, I'm moving back to Perl | 16:18 |
| snap-l | At least there we had one true database interface. DBI and DBD, and may God have mercy on your SQL | 16:19 |
| rick_h | heh | 16:19 |
| rick_h | well I'm generalizing, this is true of any time you use a library | 16:19 |
| snap-l | rick_h: I know | 16:19 |
| rick_h | you want to make sure you wrap it or can wrap any future thing of it so that you can swap it out | 16:19 |
| rick_h | apis all the way down | 16:19 |
| snap-l | I just wonder how far down the rabbit hole you can go before your in a maze of API calls, all alike. | 16:20 |
| brousch | this is a neat concept http://hairysun.com/books/decorators/ | 16:20 |
| snap-l | While a Cheshire Cat mocks you out of existence. | 16:20 |
| rick_h | just keep it in mind. I think it's the kind of thing you have to find and get the voila moment with | 16:21 |
| snap-l | brousch: Sheesh, that book image is taking forever to load | 16:21 |
| rick_h | http://hairysun.com/blog/2012/02/04/learning-python-decorators-handout/http://hairysun.com/blog/2012/02/04/learning-python-decorators-handout/ | 16:21 |
| snap-l | Too bad it's kindle only | 16:22 |
| rick_h | bwuhahahaha :P | 16:22 |
| rick_h | it's the store/billing | 16:22 |
| brousch | d00d put the kindle app on your nook | 16:22 |
| snap-l | d000000d haven't rooted the nook yet. | 16:22 |
| brousch | l4mz0r | 16:22 |
| snap-l | Well, considering the lame-ass apps that the Nook has in their store, it may get rooted sooner than later | 16:23 |
| brousch | anyways, it's not the book itself that's awesome, it's the concept of a small book targeting a specific thing. like a chapter from a giant python book | 16:23 |
| snap-l | http://www.barnesandnoble.com/u/NOOK-Apps/379003212 <- Look and weep | 16:24 |
| rick_h | yea, the kindle singles and such | 16:24 |
| rick_h | it's the thing rage these days, self publish, etc | 16:24 |
| brousch | so you can publish a cheap, small book on a topic you know well without worrying about all the other crap that usually goes with a programming book | 16:24 |
| rick_h | right | 16:25 |
| snap-l | PDF, epub or go home. | 16:26 |
| brousch | heh | 16:27 |
| brousch | i wonder if you bought the kindle book if he'd send you a PDF | 16:27 |
| snap-l | Not sure | 16:28 |
| snap-l | Should I ignite the fires of nerd-ragery? | 16:28 |
| brousch | you could just ask without starting a flamefest | 16:29 |
| brousch | then, if denied, turn on the flamethrower | 16:29 |
| snap-l | It only has two speeds: off, and immolation | 16:29 |
| snap-l | and no safety | 16:30 |
| Wolfger | snap-l: welcome back to Perl? ;-) | 16:59 |
| Wolfger | also, mobi or gtfo | 17:00 |
| snap-l | Wolfger: Those must be some good drugs. :) | 17:00 |
| snap-l | .mobi is a terrible format | 17:00 |
| rick_h | +1 | 17:01 |
| Wolfger | It works on my Kindle, therefore it is awesome. | 17:01 |
| * Wolfger honestly hasn't compared any of the formats in any meaningful way | 17:02 | |
| snap-l | If Amazon wasn't the owner of .mobi, I think they would be using ePub | 17:02 |
| rick_h | yea | 17:02 |
| rick_h | I'm a kindle lover and I hate mobi and want epub | 17:02 |
| snap-l | http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/MOBI | 17:03 |
| snap-l | http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/EPUB | 17:03 |
| snap-l | Which would you rather write a filter for? :) | 17:03 |
| snap-l | The only problem with ePub is it is a bit of a pain to get it right on multiple devices. | 17:04 |
| rick_h | it's html, welcome to the web | 17:05 |
| rick_h | :) | 17:05 |
| snap-l | Yeah, that's what I was going to say; it's kinda like 1995 era HTML | 17:05 |
| snap-l | And of course it's Adobe, so it has it's own little quirks | 17:05 |
| rick_h | epub3 to save the day...maybe...hopefully | 17:06 |
| snap-l | Don't bet on it. epub3 has some wonkiness associated with it as well | 17:06 |
| rick_h | yea, but less 1995 html | 17:06 |
| snap-l | 1998-2000 HTML. ;) | 17:07 |
| snap-l | I love how one of the features of epub3 is "font obfuscation" | 17:12 |
| snap-l | Damn typography idiots | 17:13 |
| snap-l | but I guess that's the concession they need to make to get embeddable fonts in the standard. | 17:13 |
| rick_h | yep | 17:13 |
| brousch | screw fonts. let me use my own font | 18:14 |
| greg-g | but then it won't look exactly how the designer wanted it to | 18:19 |
| rick_h | heh, yea I like the option | 18:20 |
| rick_h | people make bad decisions to express themselves and be artistic | 18:20 |
| greg-g | :) | 18:20 |
| brousch | it will never look how they want because it's the same ePub on an android phone as on a 30" monitor | 18:24 |
| greg-g | well, not if you do special CSS (or whatever the equiv is on epub3, I assume CSS?) | 18:30 |
| greg-g | like those blogs that have 1-5 columns depending on how wide your browser window is | 18:31 |
| rick_h | responsive design wheeee | 18:31 |
| brousch | well if it's as snap-l described, then that won't come about for another decade or so | 18:34 |
| greg-g | I didn't real all the scrollback, so you can safely ignore my uninformed comments ;) | 18:35 |
| greg-g | s/real/read/ | 18:35 |
| rick_h | greg-g: just discussion epub vs mobi and how epub is htmly but old htmly | 18:36 |
| snap-l | WEll, epub3 is supposed to be more html5y | 18:47 |
| Wolfger | well then they should call it epub5, since we all know version numbers are arbitrary bs anyhow | 18:49 |
| rick_h | yea, well fancy video/audio and input elements/interactive stuff | 18:52 |
| brousch | why not just use html? | 18:59 |
| snap-l | It kind of is underneath | 19:00 |
| rick_h | because that wouldn't work :P | 19:00 |
| snap-l | but there's some packaging to make it work (chapters, table of contents, etc) | 19:00 |
| snap-l | Head to gutenberg and download an epub file and run "unzip" on it | 19:00 |
| snap-l | it's pretty illuminating how it's put together | 19:01 |
| snap-l | kind of like .ODF files | 19:01 |
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