[00:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Kubuntu Status - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4531
[00:24] <mgdm> well, this is exciting
[00:42] <mgdm> right, so Unity has improved since i last played with it
[00:42] <mgdm> I might leave it if I can convince the display applet to pick up both monitors :)
[00:43] <mgdm> I had to use xrandr on the commandl ine to make it work
[00:47] <popey> mgdm: what video card?
[00:48] <mgdm> popey: a Radeon of some description, one sec
[00:48] <mgdm>  ATI Technologies Inc Mobility Radeon HD 3400 Series (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
[00:48] <mgdm> one of those
[00:50] <popey> i know nothing about ATI cards
[00:50] <popey> managed to avoid them for years
[00:50] <directhex> i have a radeon with fglrx
[00:51] <mgdm> it's fine, I've had to use xrandr to control it since Karmic, as previously the display applet locked X (and the bugs never really got answered)
[00:51] <directhex> they're much better value than geforce for windows use, and aren't crap anymore for linux, broadly speaking
[00:51] <mgdm> I'm not entirely sure what driver I@m using
[00:51] <directhex> i mean, they're less functional than geforces, but not utterly crippled like they once were
[00:51] <mgdm> I suspect I'm going to be preoccupied with making my magic trackpad work like it does in Lion
[00:51] <mgdm> which appears to be the job of a pile of XML, oooh fun
[00:52] <mgdm> I'm almost certain alt-tab isn't behaving as I recall, though
[00:52] <mgdm> unless I'm going mildly insane
[00:53] <mgdm> did something change?
[00:53] <directhex> you're the second person i've heard mention that
[01:19] <Azelphur> *stab* stupid error messages http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2012/February/2012-02-07-011806_565x140_scrot.png
[01:21] <popey> haha, thats fun
[01:24] <Azelphur> :)
[06:51] <danfish> good morning
[07:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Might fancy claiming your Windows Tax? http://no.more.racketware.info/news/hardware-software-bundling-crumbles-france
[07:48] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: hmm, all in french
[07:48] <popey> http://non.aux.racketiciels.info/guide/index
[07:58] <popey> oooh, Feb 20 for raspberry pi
[08:05] <danfish> i expect the first batch will sell out rather quickly
[08:06] <popey> yeah
[08:13] <smittix> Morning
[08:13] <czajkowski> Aloha
[08:14] <smittix> Hi czajkowski how are you?
[08:14] <czajkowski> great :)
[08:16] <popey> \o/
[08:25] <czajkowski> :D
[08:40] <daubers> Morning
[08:43] <daubers> ooooh raspberry pi..... Want' one of those for my house sensor net display \o/
[08:49] <diplo> Morning all
[08:53] <daubers> o/
[08:53] <danfish> daubers: broadcom have released some technical info re the peripherals on the board http://dmkenr5gtnd8f.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/BCM2835-ARM-Peripherals.pdf
[08:53] <daubers> danfish: I saw :) Tempting to use one for a small robotics project I have now
[08:55] <danfish> resurecting your idea of a robot army to enslave mankind?
[08:56] <daubers> danfish: Of course :)
[09:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Global Jam: Call For Events! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/07/ubuntu-global-jam-call-for-events-2/
[09:30] <daubers> Can anyone recommend a decent postgres book?
[09:30] <Daviey> no
[09:31] <popey> hah
[09:31] <daubers> Daviey: Ta :p
[09:32]  * popey hugs Daviey 
[09:32] <daubers> Maybe I should remove the qualifier "decent" from that statement?
[09:33] <DJones> hmmh, just been asked to go and visit Finland
[09:34] <daubers> DJones: The country where you want to be, pony trekking or camping? or just watching TV?
[09:36] <DJones> daubers: A friend moved there last year, looking at the photo's he puts on facebook, it looks a lovely place, although a bit deep in snow now
[09:42]  * dwatkins tries to find Three's definition of "unlimited"
[09:43] <DJones> dwatkins: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8792095/Three-gives-all-mobile-customers-unlimited-data.html
[09:44] <dwatkins> thanks DJones :)
[09:45] <dwatkins> 13 quid for unlimited data on a SIM-only deal
[09:45] <DJones> Reading that, it sounds like "unlimited" does mean no limit at all
[09:45] <dwatkins> Yeah, I'm quite surprised, as there's normally a fair usage policy.
[09:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> Cool, that is very coincidental considering what O2 have done to me recently: https://plus.google.com/u/0/104060033182234025482/posts/iNdj2jCQDCV
[09:48] <dwatkins> We use O2 at work also. My colleague discovered his bill one month was huge as he'd been streaming radio stations, and our data plan is immensely expensive.
[09:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> I will take them for whatever I can until June then dump them. They didn't like my post and tweets so have just asked to look into my situation ;-)
[09:49] <dwatkins> they contacted you because of your tweets to say they will look into it, TheOpenSourcerer?
[09:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah
[09:50] <oimon> how can this be avoided? negoitiate contracts via email?
[09:50] <DJones> dwatkins: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/broadband/363712/3-breaks-ranks-with-unlimited-mobile-data Has a line "Three told us that the new offer did not include a Fair Usage Policy
[09:50] <dwatkins> DJones: outstanding :D
[09:50] <oimon> i am due to finish contract in april and would like to go sim only but retain my 3GB allowance with T-mob
[09:50] <dwatkins> oimon: I've never managed to get to talk about contracts via e-mail, it's always over the phone
[09:51] <oimon> i guess i could record the calls too
[09:51] <dwatkins> yeah, although you might legally have to warn them of this at the start
[09:51] <DJones> That Three offer does seem tempting
[09:51] <dwatkins> "Hello, I'd like to buy a phone contract, please note this call may be recorded...." :D
[09:52] <dwatkins> I wonder if Three might reduce your allowed bandwidth if you use a lot of data, though.
[09:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> I asked O2 to go and listen to their call recording as I remember clearly asking the woman about my data allowance. They couldn't find it...
[09:53] <dwatkins> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah, they often just say they might record the calls etc.
[09:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> W*&^%$£^&*
[09:53] <dwatkins> or can't be bothered to sift through them all
[09:53] <dwatkins> quite
[09:57] <popey> or they dont keep them
[10:02] <oimon> dwatkins: no, as long as one person knows its being recorded, it's OK
[10:02] <dwatkins> oimon: oh ok, so I could call you and record the conversation without telling you, so long as I was aware?
[10:03] <oimon> dwatkins: yes, in the UK it is allowed
[10:03] <oimon> although i used to tell virgin to get a reaction. they often hung up
[10:05] <dwatkins> haha
[10:06] <dwatkins> I sometimes check the recordings from our callcentre for accuracy etc. in case someone needs more training or something
[10:06] <aquarius> astounded that notification is not required. http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/consumer/advice/faqs/prvfaq3.htm is the relevant summary here.
[10:06] <bigcalm> You listen for a laugh?
[10:07] <dwatkins> bigcalm: it is sometimes amusing
[10:08] <bigcalm> :)
[10:08] <DJones> We record all phone calls at work in case anybody disputes what has been said
[10:11] <oimon> aquarius: i think it's a good law :) then you can assume all calls are recorded
[10:12] <aquarius> I'm glad you think it's a good law, Big Brother ;-)
[10:12] <dwatkins> I imagine Echelon has the potential to record everything we say on the phone.
[10:12] <oimon> who reported that guy's marilyn monroe twitter message to the US ?
[10:12] <oimon> aquarius: only if boig brother is one of the people on the call :)
[10:13] <oimon> a third party is not allowed to record (unless they are the govt it seems)
[10:15] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:15] <aquarius> yeah, the Man is allowed. :)
[10:17] <dwatkins> I assume they would need a court order/warrant to do so, i.e. probable cause.
[10:17] <oimon> dwatkins: naaah
[10:17] <dwatkins> oh dear, that's scary
[10:18] <oimon> it wouldn't be hard to scan every single txt message for trigger words since most txts are sent/received through mobile provider message centres
[10:18] <aquarius> they need a warrant
[10:19] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2012-February/013242.html
[10:19] <dwatkins> oimon: I assume they already do that
[10:20]  * dwatkins is reminded of Mark Thomas taking a balloon ride over Menworth Hill and calling his mum to talk about sensitive topics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwHRrb5G-QI
[10:20] <aquarius> and scanning texts for trigger words is "access to the content of a communication", which is warrant-required too... although I don't know whether they've invoked the whole "it's only a computer reading it, not a person"...
[10:21] <popey> gord: do you use your fingerprint reader?
[10:22] <oimon> i have a colleague who occasionally sends very unreasonable emails to me. i suspect he is sending them while drunk - any advice? ignore? complain? reply?
[10:23] <popey> define 'unreasonable'
[10:23] <dwatkins> oimon: ask if they really meant it the next day by walking up and talking to them quietly?
[10:24] <oimon> well, they often claim I never said something that i told them about, or say rather rudely that i should have done something quicker (although i turned around a 1hr job within a day), and other things that I can easily support with evidence, suggesting he/she is either forgetful or under the influence
[10:24] <gord> popey, nah, in windows i do, not linux. you can hook it up and it will log you in, but not unlock your keyring which makes the whole thing kinda pointless
[10:25] <popey> bummer
[10:25] <gord> might be good for lock screens though i guess?
[10:25] <gord> give will cooke a poke, he got his working
[10:25] <oimon> entering into an argument about these things could be a bit petty. i haven't replied to support my case (yet). maybe it's best to swallow my pride and leave it.
[10:50] <oimon> would applecare fix a crack in a screen?
[10:50] <oimon> or is that not covered.
[10:51] <AlanBell> go ask an apple store probably
[10:52] <oimon> that's the problem. have to travel all the way into central london :-\
[10:55] <popey> phone them up?
[10:56] <gord> have heard some g ood things about applecare going the extra mile
[10:57] <gord> course saying that i'm sure others have heard bad things ;)
[10:58] <brobostigon> i had some ubuntu swag delivered this morning, but was in the bath, and have to sign for it, so i need to visit the main post office before my drum lesson.
[10:59] <popey> yeah, i had good experience with applecare
[11:00] <oimon> thats what i was hoping to hear. it's my sisters machine,  but her husband is a good negotiator, so hopefully it will work out. it's only 3 months old and doesn't know how the crack appeared
[11:00] <oimon> i'll suggest he goes down there
[11:00] <oimon> brobostigon: what did you buy? tshirt?
[11:01] <davmor2> morning all
[11:01] <brobostigon> oimon: keyring, and lanyard,
[11:01] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, all in the same place :P
[11:02] <oimon> brobostigon: item £1 , p&P £5?
[11:02] <dwatkins> that was a very cold meeting
[11:02] <czajkowski> davmor2: BOOOOOOO
[11:02] <brobostigon> oimon: it came to about £7 in total.
[11:03] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, prod, all in the same place :P
[11:03] <oimon> good guess then!
[11:04] <brobostigon> oimon: both for me, i broke my key chain over the weekend. and wanted something different.
[11:07]  * directhex moos. moo
[11:08] <mgdm> moo
[11:08] <popey> moo
[11:08] <daubers> moo
[11:08] <oimon> i wonder how the news about kubuntu's paid developer will affect kubuntu
[11:08] <daubers> also! New package from hong kong arrived today \o/ https://twitter.com/#!/daubers/status/166839703012777984/photo/1
[11:08] <oimon> doesn't seem to affect xubuntu which is a decent community distro
[11:08] <dwatkins> brobostigon: http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/02/press-to-open-keyring-just-blew-my-mind-and-saved-my-fingernails/
[11:09] <occupy64k> http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2012/02/canonical-ending-support-for-kubuntu-reassigning-lead-developer-1.ars
[11:10] <oimon> occupy64k: yes, that news
[11:10] <brobostigon> dwatkins: interesting idea.
[11:12] <mgdm> If, in Unity, I have a terminal open and I want another - how do I do that?
[11:12] <oimon> mgdm: middle click
[11:13] <bigcalm> shift+ctrl+t
[11:13] <mgdm> oimon: nonobvious, but fair enough
[11:13] <mgdm> bigcalm: not what I wanted
[11:13] <bigcalm> Ok
[11:13] <oimon> my biggest annoyance with unity is that it doesn't have the docky behaviour that i can then right click on the terminal icon in the launcher and get a list of open windows (handy with 50 open)
[11:14] <dwatkins> That's surprising, I would have thought that should be exactly what it should do (list windows)
[11:14] <gord> write a patch to your favourite terminal to put its windows in its quicklist
[11:15] <oimon> gord: reckon that's an easy job?
[11:15] <gord> depends on the software
[11:15] <mgdm> if you do it for terminator I'll buy you a pint :P
[11:15] <oimon> it's a showstopper for me using unity, since i don't get on with terminator or tabs (or screen)
[11:15] <gord> if it has easy access to its entire window list for example
[11:15] <oimon> gord: docky knows how to do it though
[11:16] <oimon> i've spoken to a few people who tried to change their way of working when switching to gnome 3 and have the same problem
[11:17] <gord> docky does, because it does application matching, like unity does (they actually use a library we wrote) - however you are quickly straying out of easy
[11:18] <mgdm> I think each terminator window will be a separate process, though maybe I'm wrong
[11:19] <oimon> in the meantime i could make docky my default dock and launcher only appear on super press
[11:20] <oimon> thereby reducing unity launcher to a glorified gnome-do
[11:25] <gord> by using ubuntu you are not contractually obligated to use the stock system ;) go ahead
[11:27] <brobostigon> ubuntu precise and debian sid, contain the same gnome-shell version.
[11:29] <mgdm> I forgot about that Broadway thing
[11:29] <mgdm> that's quite insane
[11:29] <brobostigon> accept for in debian, it has packages for more platforms,
[11:37] <mgdm> hmm
[11:37] <mgdm> so closing Pidgin's contact list kills the app
[11:37] <mgdm> that's new
[11:38] <oimon> brobostigon: using gnome shell, are your notifications at the bottom?
[11:38] <brobostigon> oimon: yes, generally.
[11:38] <oimon> know how to move them? i want a dock there
[11:38] <brobostigon> oimon: no idea, i have seen no need to find out.
[11:39] <popey> oimon: look on extensions.gnome.org
[11:41] <oimon> popey: no joy
[11:42] <BigRedS> oimon: there's talk of a forthcoming version having their location be configurable
[11:42] <oimon> it doesn't seem that common . maybe digging around with the conftool might work
[11:42] <oimon> BigRedS: ah, cool
[11:42] <BigRedS> but, in a gnomey sort of way, I think they're just pondering letting you put them also in one other place, and it's a bottom corner IIRC
[11:43] <BigRedS> I'm getting round it (badly) by generally having things put their tabs at the bottom, so teh notifications probably don't cover up anything I'm looking at
[11:44] <brobostigon> all those notification cover here, that is alittle annoying, is the bottom of byobu.
[11:44] <oimon> all these new desktops are one big workaround for me
[11:45] <BigRedS> brobostigon: yeah, it's exactly that which I wanted to fix - mid-command getting jabber popups isn't great
[11:45] <BigRedS> oimon: I'm still trying to find the problem that they solve. Though Gnome3 does seem to be pretty-nice-with-some-silly-ideas rather than all bad
[11:45] <BigRedS> unity seemed even better until I tried to do any work in it :(
[11:46] <brobostigon> BigRedS: agreed, true, only things i have now that show popups, is NM, and tomboy, so dont get anything very often.
[11:46] <oimon> i have irc, IM and email too
[11:47] <brobostigon> my IM is in bitlbee, so that part of notifications show in irssi, and irssi, well, irc, and for my email. i use gmail's web interface.
[11:48] <oimon> what happens when i type brobostigon  while yo are in another desktop/window?
[11:48] <brobostigon> other than mobile, which is with k9.
[11:48] <brobostigon> oimon: i get nothing. untill i see the highlight inside irssi.
[11:49] <oimon> my other problem is what happens if someone pings me overnight? after the OSD appears in ubuntu, i don't see it again
[11:49] <BigRedS> yeah, I think that's completely retarded
[11:49] <oimon> xchat seems to only scroll back to 8.56pm yesreday
[11:50] <BigRedS> both Unity and Gnome3 seem to feel that if you're not looking at the monitor when something happened you don't really care whether it happened or not
[11:50] <oimon> yeah
[11:51] <oimon> we can't be the only ones with these issues
[11:51] <brobostigon> i agree, that is an issue.
[11:51] <BigRedS> No - they're why I bought a Gnome 3 t-shirt at fosdem, to annoy everyone else at work :)
[11:52] <brobostigon> but the notifications do stay there, untill you are ready to deal with them, you dont just get it, and it goes away.
[11:53] <gord> oimon, your messaging indicator will glow
[11:53] <gord> thats kinda the point
[11:53] <oimon> not sure i have one of those gord
[11:53] <gord> oimon, envelope in the top right
[11:53] <oimon> nope
[11:53] <oimon> im on 10.04
[11:53] <gord> oh geez, upgrade
[11:53] <brobostigon> it is a speech bubble here.
[11:53] <oimon> i'm waiting for another LTS :D
[11:54] <gord> i can't remember that far back
[11:54] <brobostigon> gnome-shell 3.2.2.1
[11:54] <gord> are things even purple in 10.04?
[11:54] <oimon> https://code.launchpad.net/recent-notifications
[11:54] <oimon> gord: i don't know. i've been running this setup for 2 yrs. the only thing still purple is pidgin. i have about 50 ppas though
[11:55] <gord> oimon, doesn't that ruin the security and stability an lts provides?
[11:55] <BigRedS> Ah, so unity does have that indicator?
[11:55] <oimon> gnome2+docky has served me well.
[11:55] <brobostigon> lunchtime, :)
[11:55] <BigRedS> If I can beat my brain into working with unity's focus model I might end up switching my ubuntu pc back
[11:56] <oimon> startup disk creator asks for my password 3 times during the usb creation process. it's like using vista :D
[11:56] <BigRedS> It feels really like it's designed to be used with only a single workspace and that's not how I think
[11:56] <davmor2> oimon: increase the length of the scroll back or goto ~/.xchat and open the channel in logs and find it there
[11:57] <oimon> davmor2: thanks. i'll try. it's a workaround rather than solution though ..
[11:58] <gord> the real problem is that xchat doesn't have infinite scrollback like it should
[11:59] <davmor2> oimon: the other solution is to write a script that just captures pings if there isn't one already check the xchat site for a script
[11:59] <davmor2> oimon: or maybe a plugin too
[12:01] <oimon> but gord, searching back 24 hours in a busy room looking for red text? surely the real problem is that past notifications should be easily accessible, especially those accumulated  screen saver is active
[12:01] <popey> get a better irc client
[12:01] <popey> irssi with a separate hilight window ftw
[12:01] <dwatkins> or add a script to send hilights to an external machine
[12:02] <gord> oimon, /lastlog oimon
[12:03] <oimon> :D yay, thanks
[12:03]  * BigRedS just abandoned his Xchat experiment
[12:04] <dwatkins> tail the text file this generates, perhaps? http://thorstenl.blogspot.com/2007/01/thls-irssi-notification-script.html
[12:04] <oimon> BigRedS: http://www.coredumb.net/index.php?n=Scripts.XchatHighlightsCollector found this
[12:06] <BigRedS> oimon: yeah, there's a few reasons for it; generally I'm sshd into my server anyway, so screening's no issue, and I got annoyed with not being in the right channels on every machine
[12:06] <BigRedS> I do need to spend a bit of time configuring irssi though
[12:07] <oimon> popey: is oggcamp 12 happening? (and does it have a date?)
[12:08] <gord> popey, what was that screen recording application? sparkle or something?
[12:10] <popey> kazam
[12:10] <popey> oimon: dunno, no
[12:10] <gord> ah, i knew it was something like that
[12:10] <gord> ta
[12:10] <popey> np
[12:10] <oimon> ok, cheers
[12:10] <oimon> i was enticed by the topc
[12:10] <BigRedS> oimon: it's oggcamp 100!
[12:22] <gord> colours went weird :(
[12:25] <oimon> had a brainblock. the word gauge looks weird :-\
[12:25] <oimon> isn't it pronounced gayj ?
[12:25] <BigRedS> yeah
[12:26] <oimon> looks wrong
[12:26] <BigRedS> you really can't expect to derive pronounciation of words from their spellings
[12:26] <BigRedS> just be pleased when you can :)
[12:26] <gord> you don't pronounce it gau-gee?
[12:27] <dwatkins> English is jam-packed full of pronounciation inconsistencies.
[12:29] <BigRedS> it packed full of all sorts of inconsistencies
[12:30] <diplo> teaching my five year old some at the mo, it's proving difficult to explain why some things are pronounced the way they are :)
[12:30] <BigRedS> I learnt most of my pronounciation by reading
[12:30] <dwatkins> "Leicester" and "Chiswick" are interesting examples.
[12:30] <BigRedS> that wasn't the best way, I think
[12:31] <dwatkins> I know someone who insists on mispronouncing certain words such as 'decal', and gets 'slash' and 'dash' the wrong way around. It's difficult to have a technical conversation like that.
[12:31] <oimon> how do you pronounce decal? i always pronounce it "transfer"
[12:31] <BigRedS> how do you get slash and dash the wrong way round?
[12:31] <BigRedS> oimon: I use 'sticker'
[12:32] <dwatkins> oimon: heh
[12:32] <dwatkins> http://www.etsy.com/listing/67422766/app-circles-crop-circles-mac-decal
[12:32] <oimon> is it an americanism?
[12:32] <BigRedS> I doubt it
[12:32] <dwatkins> BigRedS: I don't know, but she just says it doesn't matter, since I know she gets them the wrong way around
[12:32] <mgdm> it's what Airfix call the stickers
[12:33] <BigRedS> well, depends on your definition of 'americanism', since most americanisms are just elizabethan English
[12:33]  * BigRedS curses bash and it's whitespace rules
[12:34] <oimon> mgdm: i still build airfix, but scall them transfers still
[12:34] <oimon> as i did as a boy
[12:34] <oimon> http://www.iwantoneofthose.com/books/bro-code/7143441.html
[12:35] <oimon> what to give your single mate on valentines day
[12:36] <popey> my son pronounces "Remote control" as "camote controle" which is quite sweet
[12:37] <BigRedS> my brother called it "the moke" for ages, which is probably just a poor reflection on the eloquence of the rest of us
[12:38] <popey> we call them all generically 'frank'
[12:38] <popey> "can you pass frank?"
[12:38] <popey> as in Frank Zappa
[12:38] <mgdm> heh
[12:38] <BigRedS> haha
[12:41] <oimon> i feel sad when my son learns how to say words properly. he used to call button moon "foo". he still calls playgroup "playloop" which is sweet. he can say dalmatian and golden retriever but can't say banana properly.
[12:41] <oimon> laptop and phone were early words in his vocab
[12:42] <Josssse> Hello guys. I think i've noticed that UbuntuOne works much better in ubuntu 11 than in ubuntu 10. Is there any way I can force the installation of ubuntuOne for 11 in my ubuntu 10 system??
[12:42] <jpds> Josssse: That sounds like it'll cause more problems, than solutions.
[12:43] <BigRedS> Josssse: there is neither a ubuntu 11 or a ubunti 10; there's 10.04, 10.10, 11.04 and 11.10 (it's <year><dot><month> of release). But, generally, you'll introduce more problems than you'll solve
[12:43] <BigRedS> why not upgrade teh system?
[12:43] <BigRedS> the whole system, rather
[12:43] <oimon> i also get a lot of problems on my 10.04 with u1
[12:43] <Josssse> BigRedS, I did but didn't like the new WM... so went back to LTS.
[12:44] <zleap> hi
[12:44] <BigRedS> Josssse: ahhh
[12:45] <Josssse> jpds, nothing is being syncronized... the time i used 11.04( BigRedS ) it worked very nicely.
[12:45] <jpds> Josssse: You know you can still use classic GNOME on 11.04 ?
[12:45] <BigRedS> Josssse: what's better about the 11.x one? It might be something that' sjust not default in 10.x
[12:46] <Josssse> jpds, I did not know that, Can I do it mantaining the actual look of my screen?
[12:46] <oimon> my stuff never syncs unless i kill the client and restart it manually in LTS
[12:46] <jpds> Josssse: Probably.
[12:46] <Josssse> BigRedS, I don't know, Even the cofig apps is much better.
[12:47] <Josssse> jpds, So I just install 11.04 and apt-get gnome?
[12:48] <jpds> Josssse: gnome-panel, I believe.
[12:49] <Josssse> Ok awesome. jpds. I also remarked that 11.04 is much slower, could that be solved by using gnome??
[12:50] <jpds> Josssse: Only one way to find out.
[12:50] <Josssse> hehe, you're right.
[12:51] <Josssse> Who likes the new WM anyway? what's its name?
[12:51] <BigRedS> Unity?
[12:51] <BigRedS> Several people do
[12:51] <jpds> I do.
[12:51] <d3ngar> Hi there
[12:51] <BigRedS> I've a few annoyances with it, but no more than I had with old Gnome or have with new gnome. Just different ones
[12:52] <davmor2> Josssse: o/
[12:52] <d3ngar> My contact list in Empathy disappeared - it's not showing even though I'm connected
[12:52] <d3ngar> Any ideas?
[12:53] <BigRedS> d3ngar: just to check - you've not hit a letter and inadvertently started a search of your contacts, causing it to hide all those not matching?
[12:53] <BigRedS> I've done that maaany times
[12:53] <Josssse> I don't get it. I have no annoyances with gnome. I couldn't stand the unity from the start... even had pretty slow alt+F2...
[12:54] <d3ngar> BigRedS: Sorry, I didn't
[12:54] <BigRedS> aw, dammit
[12:54] <BigRedS> that would've been nice and easy
[12:54] <d3ngar> I actually uninstalled, installed, installed from PPA, removed the PPA and installed the default
[12:54] <BigRedS> I've no idea then, that's normally why mine disappear
[12:54] <d3ngar> It's frustrating
[12:56] <Josssse> Well. I have to go teach. Thanks for the chat guys.
[12:56] <jpds> Josssse: Have you tried 11.10?
[12:57] <Josssse> jpds, I don't think so, why?
[12:57] <oimon> or even XFCE in ubuntu 11.10, which is done quite nicely and similar to gnome2
[12:57] <jpds> Josssse: Because it'll have improvements on Unity.
[12:57] <jpds> s/'ll have/has/
[12:57] <Josssse> jpds, Ill check it out and let you guys know what I think.
[12:58] <Josssse> Thanks and bye!!
[13:23] <zleap> how do I log out of ubuntu
[13:23] <zleap> i normally click on my name in the top corner but its gone
[13:24] <gordonjcp> zleap: click on the symbol in the top right
[13:24] <DJones> zleap: Logout or shutdown?
[13:24] <zleap> it isn;t there
[13:24] <zleap> alli have in the top right is the date and time
[13:24] <DJones> To shutdown, you can do "sudo shutdown -h now" in a terminal
[13:24] <zleap> ok
[13:25] <zleap> just wondered what happened to that symbol though
[13:25] <zleap> I will keep an eye on this see if I can figure out when it goes and what may cause it
[13:35] <CaMason> opinion guys... 48u freestanding cabinet with patch panels + cables, second hand, £250
[13:35] <gordonjcp> CaMason: do you have a use for it?
[13:36] <CaMason> not hugely.. we're moving into an office with 48 drops, but only 4 people with 1 server + switch. Even if I scale up to 12 people, I can see us uing even half of it
[13:36] <CaMason> I have a 6u wall cabinet at the moment
[13:37] <mgdm> CaMason: you buying or selling?
[13:37] <CaMason> buying - it was offered to me by the outgoing tenants
[13:38] <CaMason> it would need patching up as the cables currently drop into another room
[13:42] <gordonjcp> CaMason: wait until Friday afternoon then offer them £150 cash
[13:42] <CaMason> I was thinking £150 or not to bother
[13:46] <mgdm> Oi, X, stop turning my primary monitor off
[13:47]  * bigcalm returns
[13:47] <bigcalm> Anybody miss me?
[13:47]  * popey runs up to bigcalm and hugs him
[13:47] <popey> you're BACK!
[13:47] <bigcalm> \o/
[13:47] <popey> BARK BARK BARK BARK bigcalm BARK BARK BARK
[13:47] <bigcalm> I am!
[13:47] <bigcalm> o.O
[13:48] <Dave2> !
[13:48] <bigcalm> Down, boy
[13:48] <davmor2> bigcalm: you've got a nerve showing up here after all that time away
[13:48] <gord> think someone needs to get spayed...
[13:48] <davmor2> bigcalm: p.s. when did you go?
[13:50] <bigcalm> Hayley had forgotten her engagement ring so I intended to take it to her at lunch. Got there and forgot to pick up the ring :D
[13:50] <bigcalm> <- clutz
[13:50] <popey> ^ yes
[13:50] <bigcalm> :P
[13:51] <dwatkins> I'm glad I'm not the only one who does things like that, bigcalm ;)
[13:51] <bigcalm> Ah well. We enjoyed a coffee together and I had a toasted sausage and caramelised onion sandwich at the M&S cafe
[13:51] <davmor2> bigcalm: You Plonker
[13:52] <bigcalm> Yes, Dellboy
[13:53] <popey> a toasted sausage?
[13:53] <popey> _and_ a caremlised onion sandwich?
[13:53] <popey> you could totally have put those together
[13:54] <bigcalm> Both within the same one
[13:54]  * popey is being silly
[13:54] <dwatkins> A friend of mine worked in a lab doing chemistry-related stuff, entry was controlled by cards and everyone was vetted; she left her engagement ring on her desk to cross the road to the shop as that area of town isn't the best, and it had gone when she returned - the cleaner never returned to work :-/
[13:54] <bigcalm> popey: that's what I said to them
[13:54] <dwatkins> tl;dr - Detroit sucks
[13:54] <bigcalm> :(
[13:55] <dwatkins> worse, it was an heirloom
[13:55] <dwatkins> now there's a word with confusing pronounciation :)
[13:55] <oimon> dwatkins: somebody was nicking the sysadmin munchies supply  (and £20 from my drawer) so we set up motion detection and caught the cleaner red-handed
[13:55] <oimon> 5am ...camera wakes up and cleaner is having a good old chow down
[13:55] <dwatkins> oimon: we used motion detection when I was at SGI to discover that the security guard was the one breaking the heads off the little penguins we each had on our desks
[13:56] <oimon> dwatkins: the swine
[13:56] <bigcalm> :O
[13:56] <dwatkins> IRIX SecurityLite and an O2 with a camera
[13:56] <dwatkins> oimon: indeed, those poor little penguins :(
[13:56] <oimon> were they tux penguins?
[13:56] <dwatkins> yeah, made of stresstoy foam
[13:56] <oimon> yeah, i have one here
[13:56] <dwatkins> they gave them out when SGI started supporting Linux on the Altix range
[13:57] <oimon> mine has a stress fracture to the neck but is still ok
[13:57] <dwatkins> sure you didn't have a twisted security guard, oimon? ;)
[13:57] <mgdm> oimon: more to the point, what did you do with this information?
[13:57] <oimon> mgdm: gave the evidence to HR and we were told the guy had been taken off the cleaning staff.
[13:58] <mgdm> fairy nuff
[13:58] <oimon> however i locked my drawer after that
[13:58] <dwatkins> the security guard in question in the SGI office was never seen again, I imagine he was reassigned or laid off
[13:58] <oimon> yeah, except he just got moved to another company instead
[13:58] <gord> hrm, the two kde applications i use are suddenly broken on a day like today. i didn't realise our one paid kubuntu maintainer held back the tide like that
[13:58] <dwatkins> what's special about today?
[13:59] <BigRedS> kubuntu stops being canonical sponsored
[13:59] <dwatkins> oh my
[13:59] <DJones> gord: I didn't think kubuntu had a paid employee anymore
[13:59] <davmor2> DJones: Riddell is
[14:00] <gord> davmor2, not anymore
[14:00] <DJones> davmor2: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2012-February/005782.html
[14:00] <gord> DJones, thats what i am saying
[14:00] <davmor2> gord: DJones: yeah but that is post 12.04 right unless I am reading it wrong
[14:01] <mgdm> Awww, no
[14:01] <gord> davmor2, didn't read the actual post tbh
[14:01] <mgdm> I can't use my second monitor any more
[14:02] <gord> mgdm, why not?
[14:02] <mgdm> X switches it off and won't bring it back
[14:02] <mgdm> until I turn the machine off and on again
[14:03] <gord> weird... Xorg.log not helpful?
[14:04] <mgdm> having a look
[14:04] <mgdm> [ 1081.104673] [drm:radeon_dp_get_link_status] *ERROR* displayport link status failed
[14:04] <mgdm> there's that in dmesg, which doesn't look great
[14:07] <gord> not using the ati drivers?
[14:07] <mgdm> Not currently
[14:08] <gord> might solve your issue
[14:08] <mgdm> I'll give it a bash
[14:08] <gord> either that or your cable went wonky
[14:08] <mgdm> well, the cable's been fine until now, so it'd be quite a coincidence
[14:08] <mgdm> next question: how do I reorder icons in the launcher? Dragging them moves everything
[14:08] <gord> when it rains it pours like they say ;)
[14:08] <gord> pull the icon out
[14:09] <mgdm> that just seemst o launch the app
[14:09] <mgdm> oh feck, one of them was eclipse
[14:09] <davmor2> mgdm: grab move to the right first then move up and down and  let go when you're happy
[14:10] <mgdm> oh, it's a bit tricky, but it works
[14:10] <davmor2> gord: why is the launcher not appearing anymore when I move to the left
[14:10] <gord> davmor2, you aren't pushing hard enough
[14:11] <gord> you have to push against the edge now
[14:11] <gord> there is also a bug with that if you have a strange mouse rate, iirc fix is coming
[14:12] <davmor2> gord: this is the trackpad on my wonderful laptop that you love so much
[14:13] <mgdm> Oh, unity 2d's alt-tab behaviour makes sense
[14:13] <Dave2> Unity 2D's window manager is metacity
[14:14] <mgdm> that explains why it looked familiar
[14:19] <davmor2> gord: this was the clue for me the first line of Riddell's post ;) "Today I bring the disappointing news that Canonical will no longer be funding my work on Kubuntu after 12.04."
[14:20] <BigRedS> is there a way to have unity's alt-tab behave like gnome <3's?
[14:20] <mgdm> you really like gnome, apparently
[14:23] <BigRedS> haha, I prefer gnome 3 to unity by a fairly small margin, but I think I prefer both to gnome2 but for the daft alt-tab behaviour
[14:23] <BigRedS> it's been a while since I used gnome2 now, so I'm assuming my view of it is rose-tinted. I know most software annoys me
[14:23] <gord> just enable a different alt tab switcher plugin
[14:26] <mgdm> anyone know why I have to hold the mouse down when I open menus on the taskbar?
[14:26] <mgdm> clicking makes them appear and then disappear, old-classic-Mac-style
[14:27] <mgdm> Oh, weird, that's only on the laptop's internal screen
[14:36] <popey> sounds buggy
[14:37] <mgdm> rather
[14:45] <bigcalm> Anybody here use the skype webbrowser plugin to make phone numbers clickable?
[14:45] <directhex> clickclickclick
[14:46] <oimon> is it possible to make facebook cover photo private to friends only?
[14:46] <oimon> not the profile pic but the large cover pic
[14:46] <popey> bigcalm: no, i remove it whenever i see it installed
[14:46] <popey> hates it
[14:49] <bigcalm> popey: as do I
[14:50] <bigcalm> A client wants all customer entered numbers to be skype clickable links. I was wondering if I could just add a 'call via skype' option rather than having to get the plugin working
[14:50] <bigcalm> If it were a simple href I could setup, that would be idea
[14:54] <BigRedS> there's a standard for a sip-alike mailto: I thought
[14:54] <BigRedS> wonder if skype can handle those
[14:56] <bigcalm> I'm going to have to install the plugin on a windows machine to see what their javascript does to numbers :(
[14:57] <jpds> bigcalm: 2 + 2 == 5?
[14:58] <popey> bigcalm: it really messes with log files
[14:58] <popey> which have long timestamps in them
[14:59] <bigcalm> jpds: I wouldn't rule it out
[14:59] <bigcalm> popey: laptop working again?
[14:59] <AlanBell> jpds: that is only true for large values of 2

[15:07] <CaMason> gordonjcp, I got the cabinet for £150
[15:08] <mgdm> nice
[15:12] <diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, Can I ask you a few questions about OpenERP ?
[15:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> You can diplo
[15:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> Whether I can answer them is another matter
[15:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
[15:12] <diplo> What sort of businesses have you implemented it for ?
[15:13] <diplo> Got a friend who called an hour ago thinking about setting up a wholesaler ( I work for a ERP company ) but it's not cheap and after seeing you mention and tweet today about it
[15:13] <diplo> I thought i'd take a look
[15:13]  * AlanBell hugs openerp
[15:13] <diplo> Is there any large failings that you could point out ?
[15:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> One is a fairly traditional IT Reseller/VAR - Other fits retail lighting systems
[15:14] <diplo> I can see all the benefits on web site, it's knowing what's not so good that they won't advertise
[15:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> "large failling" nope. The more we use it the more I like to to be honest.
[15:14] <AlanBell> multicompany is a bit hairy, but it is a difficult topic at the best of times
[15:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's not perfect by anymeans
[15:14] <diplo> This is for an Electrical Wholesaler, so selling goods to account customers/cash sales and ordering from suppliers
[15:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> But it probably the best OSS solution and is very well supported/maintained
[15:14] <AlanBell> the lovely thing about it is not that it is 100% perfect, but that it is 100% fixable
[15:14] <diplo> Single compnay, 2 members of stagg
[15:15] <diplo> staff**
[15:15] <diplo> jeesh, typos galore
[15:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> Turnover? (roughly)
[15:15] <diplo> Not opened yet :)
[15:15] <AlanBell> with warehousing and logistics?
[15:15] <diplo> Looking at opening, and asked mea bout software.
[15:15] <diplo> Not the be all and end all, he's been looking at Sage as well
[15:16] <diplo> He basically said I will be able to see stock on shelf and know when to order if i need to if it's a huge turning point on money
[15:16] <AlanBell> sage does money well enough to keep accountants happy but it does not do stock well enough to keep non-accountants happy
[15:16] <diplo> Is it hard to setup if he asked me to, not tried it at all before
[15:17] <diplo> heh yeah i know AlanBell, the company i work for has recently taken a fair few sage customers that have out grown the Stock plugin
[15:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> define "hard" diplo?
[15:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> If you work for an erp company you will probably understand the terminology etc.
[15:17] <diplo> As in, 2-3 hours install / setup or a day or two
[15:17] <diplo> Just to have an empty working system
[15:18] <gordonjcp> CaMason: sweet
[15:18] <CaMason> :)
[15:18] <diplo> Oh yeah, been in the trade ( Electrical Wholesaling ) and now the software we used at said company for 13 years +
[15:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> diplo - Install in about 15 minutes: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/04/19/how-to-install-openerp-6-on-ubuntu-10-04-lts-server-part-1
[15:18] <diplo> Oooh good man! thanks.
[15:18] <AlanBell> (instructions also work on precise) ;)
[15:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - Setup could probably be done in a couple of days. Obviously it depends... On various bit of string of unknown lengths at this stage.
[15:19] <AlanBell> diplo: openERP 6.1 is out next week
[15:19] <gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: this is relevant to my interests
[15:19] <AlanBell> and it rocks
[15:20] <diplo> So, if i followed the instructions I'd have a basic but empty working ERP system ?
[15:20] <AlanBell> you would, but I would right now adjust the instructions and go for 6.1
[15:21] <diplo> kk, great thanks guys
[15:21] <diplo> Will set up a VM on my laptop tonight and show him
[15:21] <AlanBell> there is a #openobject channel on freenode
[15:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> I am re-writing the instructions - (Only real gotcha for a base install is you need to sudo pip werzkeug - the 10.04 package is too old).
[15:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> diplo latest tarball of the nightly will do you nicely: http://nightly.openerp.com/6.1/src/
[15:23] <diplo> Grabbed the rc1
[15:23] <diplo> on it's way down ta
[15:24] <diplo> Recommend 10.04, or try and get it working on precise ?
[15:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Start it up and point your browser to :8069 Ignore the bit about the web client on my post - that's integrated in 6.1 And ignore the conf files, just copy the default from the src tarball.
[15:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Personally I would stick with 10.04.
[15:24] <diplo> kk, grabbing an iso now thanks
[15:24] <AlanBell> depends on the timings of your project
[15:25] <diplo> Depends whether they get the go ahead for funding I guess, said I'd take a quick look at it for them
[15:27] <diplo> Funnily enought at 8-9am this morning i was looking at screenshots of openerp and then I get a phone call asking about it.
[15:27] <diplo> about 5 hours later
[15:38] <oimon> what's a sure-fire way of finding when a linux OS was installed?
[15:40] <directhex> oimon, ls -ld /root is a reasonable way IME
[15:40] <directhex> assuming it wasn't deployed by an image
[15:43] <oimon> directhex: i found the issue ticket where the machine was installed. although i did check date of /etc/motd and root etc
[15:43] <daubers> oimon: sudo tune2fs /dev/sda1 (or whicherver filesystem is the root fs)
[15:44] <daubers> Filesystem created:       Tue Oct 12 16:05:24 2010
[15:44] <directhex> oh, nice solution daubers
[15:44] <daubers> Won't solve the image problem though :(
[15:47] <kirrus> daubers: stat /etc/hostname
[15:48] <kirrus> daubers: if it was an image that then had a unique hostname applied...
[15:48] <daubers> kirrus: yup, that'd do too :)
[16:00] <popey>  sudo head -n 1 /var/log/installer/syslog
[16:00] <popey> ^^ first boot
[16:03] <oimon> popey: not on RHEL but nice idea : ls -ld /root/install.log shows date of file on RH
[16:04] <oimon> popey: ah, it's /root/install.log.syslog
[16:04] <popey> eww RHEL
[16:06] <oimon> on desktop :D
[16:07] <oimon> i was in a meeting the other day and at least 3 other guys were running unity on their laptops
[16:16] <popey> oimon: did they work for canonical?
[16:19] <BigRedS> There's a few unity installs in the noc here
[16:19] <bigcalm> noc?
[16:19] <BigRedS> network operations centre
[16:19] <BigRedS> where they put the people in a datacenter
[16:21] <oimon> popey: no :P just a high level internal infrastructure meeting
[16:21] <popey> fancy that
[16:21] <popey> people tell me 'everyone' left for Mint
[16:22] <ali1234> everyone has left for mint
[16:22] <gord> just the loud ones
[16:22] <ali1234> that's why nobody complains any more
[16:22] <oimon> hmm
[16:22] <oimon> ali1234: got your rasp pi SoC datasheet?
[16:22] <gord> pretty sure that the last release was the most downloaded version ever
[16:22]  * TheOpenSourcerer is still on 10.10 enjoying cubic desktops and wobbly windows on a low powered graphics card ;-)
[16:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh yes, and menus.
[16:23] <oimon> just installing lubuntu 11.10 on an old dell 3100C for my nephew.
[16:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> I know Old Fashioned or what.
[16:23] <directhex> dreading 12.04 releasing
[16:23] <ali1234> the last release of mint was also the most downloaded ever
[16:23] <gord> good for them :)
[16:24] <directhex> i committed to 10.04 for nontechnical staff in the office, but migrating everyone onto something 12.04 based is a nasty thought. unity or shell, no option fills me with joy
[16:24] <ali1234> right. it;s no surprising that ubuntu users largely choose unity, when you look at the alternatives on offer
[16:24] <gord> TheOpenSourcerer, 12.04 has desktop cube, wobbly windows and it'll run on low powered gpus. menus too, i'm not quite sure what you are getting at
[16:24] <oimon> as soon as gord fixes terminal to work with unity like i want it to, i'll be on unity too ;) JOKE JOKE
[16:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> 11.10 doesn't
[16:25]  * AlanBell is looking forward to global menus being reverted
[16:26] <oimon> desktop zoom + wobbly windows are  the compiz features i use the most
[16:26] <gord> oimon, its something often requested, have you looked around? it wouldn't surprise me if someone did it already
[16:26] <oimon> gord: alas, yes, although not for 6 mo's ..will try again
[16:27] <AlanBell> oimon: which fix?
[16:28] <oimon> AlanBell: if you have 10 terminal windows open, want to click right mouse on the terminal icon on the launcher to see a list of windows and their title. e.g. oimon@pc1 oimon@server2 oimon@server3
[16:29] <oimon> ala docky
[16:29] <AlanBell> oimon: oh yeah, I want that too
[16:29] <oimon> i think its called a dynamic quicklist
[16:29] <oimon> but requires adding code to terminal too it seems
[16:29] <AlanBell> yeah, I seem to recall asking gord if that would be easy to code up :)
[16:29] <ali1234> yeah
[16:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> I quite like the list along the bottom of my screen
[16:29] <ali1234> it would be easy to code up for terminal
[16:29] <ali1234> and then you code it up again for firefox
[16:30] <ali1234> and then you code it up again for gedit
[16:30] <ali1234> and then you code it up again for... you get the point
[16:30] <AlanBell> hmm, standard features ftw
[16:31] <bigcalm> I've been sent a VB.NET script that I need to replicate in PHP. This looks freaky
[16:31] <ali1234> unity seems to have been designed both for and by people who open very few windows
[16:31] <AlanBell> I had a look and I think it could be done, the thing uses dbus and it doesn't care what process is trying to add a quicklist to an icon
[16:31] <ali1234> that is correct
[16:31] <gord> actually, you could just make a service that hooks up to bamf and modifies all the quicklists for running applications to add window lists
[16:31] <ali1234> removing quicklist items tends to make unity segfault though
[16:31] <AlanBell> I figured "something" could run, look at all k the windows and . . .  do what gord just said
[16:33] <AlanBell> and then you could select it and it would raise *just* *that* *one* window
[16:33] <ali1234> yeah... and then you could take that code and put it directly into unity and avoid wasting a load of memory and CPU polling dbus and window lists
[16:33] <czajkowski> someone running precise can you press prtsc please?
[16:33] <czajkowski> what happens?
[16:33] <czajkowski> I'm only hearing a camera click
[16:33] <ali1234> camera noise, screenshot window appears
[16:34] <AlanBell> screen flashes, camera clicks, no window with screenshot
[16:34] <ali1234> it does however appear on the second monitor
[16:34] <oimon> i wonder when/if elementary are gonna release something?
[16:34] <czajkowski> AlanBell: right same here
[16:34] <ali1234> i haven't updated yet this week
[16:34] <czajkowski> AlanBell: whic is kinda annoying as need to take some screen captures
[16:35] <oimon> try the shutter app?
[16:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> Applications->Accessories->Take Screenshot?
[16:35] <AlanBell> czajkowski: gnome-screenshot -i
[16:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh sorry.
[16:36] <czajkowski> hmm works but with errors
[16:36] <czajkowski> ** WARNING **: Unable to use GNOME Shell's builtin screenshot interface, resorting to fallback X11. Error: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.gnome.Shell was not provided by any .service files
[16:37] <AlanBell> oops
[16:39] <oimon> lubuntu installer has the mouse pointer going the wrong way..feels nasty
[16:40] <oimon> points / instead of \
[16:40] <directhex> lean forward!
[16:40] <directhex> i think that's msnbc's slogan
[16:50] <oimon> it also uses synaptic instead of software-center :-\
[16:50] <ali1234> that's bad?
[16:52] <oimon> yes. i forgot how bad
[16:53] <oimon> software-centre makes you want to install stuff. it is positively inviting
[16:53] <oimon> i love the recommended and new stuff. i end up installing extra cool stuff i didn't go there to install
[16:53] <directhex> bloat!
[16:53] <mgdm> it's a conspiracy to make youg o and get new hard drives
[16:53] <ali1234> yes.
[16:54] <oimon> or maybe to make me enjoy my computer more ;)
[16:56] <oimon> i wish there was a way you could try apples in the shop before buying. spongey and tasteless, and i've bought a whole bag of them
[17:02] <bigcalm> Buy a single apple of each type they have. Sample them. Buy lots of the ones you like?
[17:05] <oimon> this is the coop. all apples are bagged i think
[17:05] <oimon> maybe i'll just juice them
[17:05] <Dave2> I don't buy apples all that often because they're so often not that great
[17:15] <davmor2> this is funny http://wakingupnow.com/blog/dolly-partons-other-voice
[17:27] <mgdm> czajkowski: congratulations :D
[17:27] <czajkowski> mgdm: wow youre fast
[17:27] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[17:27] <mgdm> hehe
[17:28] <czajkowski> :D
[17:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> Congrats czajkowski
[17:29] <daubers> \o/ czajkowski
[17:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> Same about the Rugny though eh?
[17:30] <bigcalm> czajkowski: indeed congratulations :) We'll be able to get you up to Wolverhampton for our workplace days now :D
[17:30] <daubers> Must be cake time.....
[17:30] <czajkowski> thanks folks am very very happy
[17:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> s\Rugby
[17:30] <danfish> congrats czajkowski :)
[17:31] <bigcalm> czajkowski: will you be leaving the community council as well now? :P
[17:32] <czajkowski> nope
[17:32] <czajkowski> nor any of the others
[17:32] <bigcalm> Good
[17:32] <popey> oi bigcalm
[17:32] <bigcalm> Oi popey :P
[17:32] <davmor2> Yay drinks are on czajkowski
[17:33] <bigcalm> Splendid idea :D
[17:33] <Myrtti> yay.
[17:35] <davmor2> czajkowski: see twitter
[17:37] <AlanBell> czajkowski :)
[17:38] <czajkowski> weeeeee
[17:38] <bigcalm> Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiish
[17:39] <directhex> today's fish is trout a la creme
[17:39] <directhex> enjoy your meal
[17:39] <mgdm> Fiiiish.
[17:39] <mgdm> awww, bigcalm broke it.
[17:39] <bigcalm> Was that the voice of Tony Hawks? It sounds just like him but he wasn't listed in the credits
[17:40] <czajkowski> anyone know how you make a .doc non read only
[17:40] <mgdm> I wouldn't be surprised
[17:40] <bigcalm> Updating your CV already? ;)
[17:41] <davmor2> czajkowski: yes ta
[17:41] <mgdm> anyone worthwhile makes their CV in LaTeX
[17:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> That's an excellent deal. Return Eurostar London to Brussels and 3 nights in a 4/5 star hotel: £236 inc. VAT
[17:41] <directhex> czajkowski, in ubuntu? save it somewhere that isn't the evolution temp folder
[17:41] <AlanBell> czajkowski: save it somewhere else
[17:42]  * AlanBell looks forward to seeing that on TheOpenSourcerer's expenses
[17:42] <daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: Where are you finding these?
[17:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Just typed it in in eurostar's website
[17:43] <bigcalm> The EuroStar needs to run from Telford Central
[17:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Train & Hotel please.
[17:43] <bigcalm> I'd use it more then
[17:44] <AlanBell> I only used it once (for UDS) and it was great
[17:46]  * popey recalls sitting next to AlanBell on the way back from UDS on the Eurostar
[17:46]  * popey recalls AlanBell failing to tell me I had left my ipod in the seat pocket
[17:46]  * AlanBell recalls popey listening to an ipod
[17:46] <popey> never going away with him again
[17:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> I really like the Eurostar...
[17:47] <bigcalm> :(
[17:47] <gordonjcp> why did you even put it in the seat pocket?
[17:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> Very civilised way to travel.
[17:47] <popey> it seemed a reasonable thing to at the time
[17:47] <popey> i was no longer listening to it
[17:47] <dwatkins> I like the Eurostar too, very smooth.
[17:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> That's a very nice looking hotel for the money: http://www.thonhotels.com/hotels/countrys/belgium/brussels/stanhope-hotel/
[17:51] <danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: I stayed in the hotel 2 years ago - twas very pleasant
[17:51] <danfish> s/that/the
[17:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> Great. Thanks - you never really *know* from web sites and pictures but it looked all right...
[17:53]  * popey goes to catch the train to Eastleigh to have curry with tonytiger and the other podcast crew
[17:53] <AlanBell> have fun
[17:54] <AlanBell> and make sure you don't talk about oggcamp, you are supposed to be concentrating on the podcast remember :)
[17:55] <popey> hah
[17:55]  * popey notes that fab is in the country as well
[17:55] <popey> doing secret things in london
[17:57] <davmor2> popey: that was gods way of saying buy a better music player :D
[17:58] <czajkowski> popey: is he going for interviews in canonical
[17:59] <AlanBell> heh, that would be funny
[17:59] <christel> czajkowski: congrats :)
[18:00] <czajkowski> sqweeeeeee :)
[18:03] <christel> when do you stop being a lazy layabout? ;)
[18:03]  * christel tickles lauraloo
[18:04] <czajkowski> monday
[18:05] <christel> awesome :)
[19:06] <diplo> evening all
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> \o
[19:11] <brobostigon> o/
[19:11]  * MartijnVdS installs Chrome on the Xoom and GNex
[19:11]  * brobostigon has no ICs device, :(
[19:11] <brobostigon> ICS*
[19:12]  * MartijnVdS is also awaiting delivery of an Arduino + bits
[19:13] <brobostigon> would be nice, if they made a version for gingerbread and honeycomb, as very few people, currently have ICS.
[19:14] <MartijnVdS> Google is pushing for ICS a lot.
[19:14] <MartijnVdS> they probably won't
[19:15] <brobostigon> :(
[19:15] <brobostigon> ohwell.
[19:15] <brobostigon> alot of people are going to miss out,
[19:16] <brobostigon> maybe i should try android-x86 ICS, and see if it runs.
[19:42] <brobostigon> i need to work out, how to get ICs working on my tablet. otherwise, i will be stuck in the dark ages.
[19:42] <brobostigon> ICS*
[19:44] <diplo> Any of you guys rooted/rom'd a android box before ?
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> yes, my old Magic
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> But I found it annoying, as I had to keep re-flashing for every update
[19:45] <diplo> So my phone is S-OFF
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> = lose stuff
[19:45] <diplo> install rom manager
[19:45] <diplo> Says i need su
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> that's root on the rom
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> that's different from an unlocked bootloader
[19:46] <diplo> Found a binary of su, do i just copy over the su binary to system/bin ?
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> diplo: no, you need to follow a guide to root your model/version
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> probably using adb/fastboot magics
[19:46] <diplo> kk, I was under the impression it was already done
[19:47] <diplo> Will follow some more now
[19:50] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: here, ihave been able to flash, one ontop of the other, for about 6 months, working properly, no loss.
[19:50] <brobostigon> updates*
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: What are you running? Cyanogen?
[19:51]  * MartijnVdS hasn't found a reason to not run stock
[19:51]  * mgdm is likely going back to stock firmware on his Desire when he gets a round tuit
[19:52] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: I have a few "Republic of Perl" ones at work
[19:52] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: cool :)
[19:52] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i am running http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=882356
[19:52] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: http://szabgab.com/img/fosdem_2010_tuits.jpg
[19:52] <mgdm> WANT :D
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: Ask around on #London.pm (on irc.perl.org)
[19:53] <mgdm> I might just have to :)
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> This works really well as a desktop background: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/6816260055/in/photostream/lightbox/
[19:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, makes you wonder what all those other vendors are paying Microsoft for doesn't it? http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120207110012776
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Extortion!
[19:57] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: it is essentially, aosp gingerbread.
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: They've done ports of ICS
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=19648827
[19:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Yep - I reckon you could be right.
[19:58] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i wont try yet, ICs is alittle more memory hungry, and therefore done think it will be usable yet.
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it'll be VERY slow
[19:59] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I have 2.2 on my Magic atm (stock Dutch vodafone), but it's impossible
[19:59] <MartijnVdS> s.o.o.o.o. s.l.o.w.w.w
[19:59] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: exactly, but maybe one day, they will get it working,
[19:59] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: gingerbread works perfectly, if not better than stock, in so many ways.
[20:02] <brobostigon> leonard nimoy getting royalties, "three men and a baby" on film4, good film.
[20:14]  * BigRedS appears to be in a real-life version of the ubuntu-users mailing list :)
[20:38]  * dwatkins offers BigRedS a range of watches and cut-rate home insurance
[20:38] <brobostigon> lol
[20:40] <BigRedS> haha, there's conversatons about xfce, gnome3 vs unity and all those trollfests
[20:40] <BigRedS> it is a lug meet
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: sounds like it's time for beer
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: good, strong beer
[20:42] <brobostigon> leffe, or fransizkaner, :)
[20:42] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: we're not in a pub
[20:42] <kirrus> Unfortionatly
[20:42] <BigRedS> which is why I'm sat in the corner writing a bunch of code rater than demanding beer
[20:54] <brobostigon> quote from private eye 1306, "the coalition government is like the chap in the crows nest of the titanic ..." - Boris johnson, telegraph, 16 jan.
[21:13] <gordonjcp> I found a weird thing
[21:13] <AlanBell> put it away, quick
[21:13] <gordonjcp> when you tell nautilus to unmount a USB device, it completely drops the device altogether
[21:13] <gordonjcp> ie. plug in a card, it appears as sdc, "Eject" or "Safely Remove" and /dev/sdc is gone
[21:14] <AlanBell> that is a power management thing I think
[21:14] <AlanBell> it cuts power to the device
[21:14] <gordonjcp> is there a way to make it behave sanely?
[21:15] <AlanBell> why?
[21:16] <gordonjcp> because I want to use the SD card
[21:16] <gordonjcp> I don't want it to attempt to mount the SD card because then nautilus gets all pissy when I try to remove it
[21:16] <AlanBell> in what way?
[21:16] <gordonjcp> well, crashing, for a start
[21:17] <AlanBell> no, I mean in what way do you want to use the SD card after you have unmounted it?
[21:17] <gordonjcp> I want to write some raw data to it
[21:17] <gordonjcp> ie. not a filesystem
[21:18] <AlanBell> ok, so did you want the thing to not be automounted in the first place?
[21:19] <gordonjcp> that would be great too
[21:19] <gordonjcp> either way
[21:19] <AlanBell> http://askubuntu.com/questions/89244/how-to-disable-automount-in-nautiluss-preferences
[21:23] <gordonjcp> urgh
[21:23] <gordonjcp> see that's exactly what I wanted to avoid
[21:24] <gordonjcp> once again getting sane behaviour from Ubuntu involves fiddling about with dconf
[21:25] <AlanBell> for debatable values of sane
[21:26] <gordonjcp> well
[21:26] <gordonjcp> it's increasingly hard to actually *do* anything in Ubuntu
[21:26] <gordonjcp> more and more of it is being locked down
[21:26] <AlanBell> totally agree with your more general point
[21:27] <gordonjcp> it resembles a badly-reinvented Android
[21:27] <gordonjcp> if the idea is to make a granny-friendly "i've got the internet" OS for locked-down machines, then great
[21:27] <gordonjcp> but it's bloody useless for people who actually want to use their computers for more complicated things
[21:28] <AlanBell> like switching between two windows :)
[21:28] <gordonjcp> well yeah, for one thing
[21:29] <gordonjcp> while I admire the inventive mind that came up with the idea of hooking alt-tab to a random number generator, I do find myself questioning the usefulness
[21:29] <gordonjcp> also the alt-f2 debacle
[21:29] <gordonjcp> in Gnome 2, or lxde, or xfce, or ghod knows what else, you press "alt-f2", you type the name of the thing you want to run in, optionally with some arguments, and it runs it
[21:30] <gordonjcp> in Unity you press alt-f2, a search box comes up, you type what you want to run, it goes off and guesses what it thinks you wanted to run, and runs that instead
[21:30] <gordonjcp> generally gnome-calculator
[21:30] <gordonjcp> it just plain doesn't work
[21:31] <gordonjcp> "gnome-calculator" and "gedit" only have three letters the same in them
[21:31] <AlanBell> I don't generally use it but I just tried it now and it seems to have caught the same problem searching for stuff that the hud has
[21:31] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: exactly the same
[21:31] <gordonjcp> *mostly* if you don't type the full name in it might guess right
[21:31] <gordonjcp> but it shouldn't be guessing at all
[21:31] <AlanBell> and if you *do* type the full name it offers something else
[21:32] <AlanBell> ah, I see a bug that is fileable
[21:32] <gordonjcp> and then most of the time it runs gnome-calculator no matter what you do
[21:32] <AlanBell> I happened to try with mumble and onboard picked at random
[21:33] <gordonjcp> current Ubuntu seems to be geared up for insane computer experts
[21:33] <AlanBell> "mumbl" offers mumble but "mumble" offers "mumble-overlay" and "onboar" offers onboard but "onboard" offers onboard-settings
[21:33] <gordonjcp> who really know their way around all this weirdass behaviour
[21:34] <gordonjcp> I'm going to switch to a distro that's not quite so orientated towards mad but clever people, like Arch
[21:34] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: "evinc" offers "evince", "evince" offers "evince-previewer"
[21:34] <gordonjcp> it shouldn't offer *anything*, it should just do what I type
[21:35] <AlanBell> I don't mind it offering stuff if I get it wrong. I just don't often get it wrong.
[21:38] <gordonjcp> I'd prefer it didn't wait around trying to guess stuff
[21:38] <gordonjcp> or better still, just kept a history of commands typed
[21:38] <AlanBell> 928496bug 928496
[21:38] <AlanBell> bug 928496
[21:38] <BigRedS> It doesn't even correct things, it enwrongengs correct and valid ones
[21:39] <BigRedS> I think I just invented a word "enwrongens"
[21:41] <gord> this thread has a major potential to get confusing, fast. https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-dev/msg00407.html
[21:41] <brobostigon> is there a physical model, of the forces prsent, within the milky way, and detailed enough, to show detail around out solar system.?
[21:42] <brobostigon> our*
[21:43] <BigRedS> haha
[21:43] <brobostigon> i want to work out, how the objects around our solar system, have an affect on it.
[21:43] <AlanBell> gord: wow, bad unity namespace collision there
[21:44] <AlanBell> in essence it boils down to global menus don't really work as a concept in a VM in seamless mode
[21:45] <AlanBell> s/in a VM in seamless mode//
[21:45] <BigRedS> haha
[21:45] <BigRedS> I can see the logic behind them, and I sort-of want to find them workable, but every time I've tried to something else has put me off whatever I used to do it
[21:48] <AlanBell> what vmware unity mode (and virtualbox seamless mode) should do is proxy the dbusmenu stuff and re-parent it into the host launcher and menus
[21:49] <AlanBell> even if the host is running OS X
[22:12]  * AlanBell sweeps up a load of duplicates into bug 842108
[22:13] <gordonjcp> eat
[22:13] <gordonjcp> *neat
[22:15] <AlanBell> there are 1884 bugs against unity it seems
[22:17] <AlanBell> massive number of them relating to the unity compiz plugin crashing and bringing everything down with it
[22:20] <bigcalm> The anarchist plugin, smash the state!
[22:22] <czajkowski> ▞▀▖ ▌   ▞▀▖ ▌ ▌ ▞▀▖
[22:22] <czajkowski> ▙▄▌ ▌   ▌ ▌ ▙▄▌ ▙▄▌
[22:22] <czajkowski> ▌ ▌ ▌   ▌ ▌ ▌ ▌ ▌ ▌
[22:22] <czajkowski> ▘ ▘ ▀▀▘ ▝▀  ▘ ▘ ▘ ▘
[22:23] <bigcalm> Thank goodness that I have this terminal open to irsii
[22:23] <bigcalm> Because that hello looks weird in xchat :)
[22:23] <bigcalm> Hi czajkowski :)
[22:24] <bigcalm> http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/xchat_doesnt_like_that.png
[22:25] <gordonjcp> czajkowski: hi
[22:25] <czajkowski> bigcalm: awww you miss it in all its glory
[22:26] <bigcalm> czajkowski: in xchat, yes
[22:26] <bigcalm> czajkowski: looks ok in irssi
[22:26] <shauno> a proportional font on irc?  hipster!
[22:26] <bigcalm> Which is odd, as I'm using the Ubuntu mono font in both places
[22:26] <bigcalm> shauno: no
[22:31] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: came out ok on my xchat
[22:32] <AlanBell> I think when using substituted font glyphs terminal enforces the monospace glyph size, but gtk uses the width of the substitued glyph
[22:33] <gord> hrm, wrote a script to download videos from a site, using all possible urls i've managed to sniff out of the browser connecting to the site - 21,000 possible urls. this might take a while :(
[22:33] <bigcalm> Heh, oops
[22:33] <bigcalm> That reminds me that I need to update my soundcloud leeching script
[22:33] <bigcalm> It assumes that all files are mp3s and renames files as such. But this is not always true
[22:34] <bigcalm> Thankfully it is for the solidsteel podcasts that I download though
[22:35] <mgdm> tut tut
[22:35] <bigcalm> Indeed
[22:36] <bigcalm> I assume that 'file' will give me the info I need
[22:40] <bigcalm> Maybe I'll use curl rather than wget and read the headers prior to downloading
[22:41] <mgdm> might just give you application/octet-stream
[22:41] <bigcalm> Might also give me the original filename
[22:41] <mgdm> true
[22:42] <bigcalm> Eg: http://soundcloud.com/ninja-tune/solid-steel-radio-show-20-1/download
[22:43] <bigcalm> Nothing in the URL to say what it is. A redirect or 2 later you are given a full filename to download
[22:43] <bigcalm> The web browser names it correctly
[22:43] <bigcalm> With wget I was naming the file myself
[22:45] <bigcalm> mgdm: any suggestions?
[22:46] <mgdm> it'll be in the content-disposition header
[22:46] <mgdm> I'd expect
[22:50] <bigcalm> mgdm: spot on! http://paste.ubuntu.com/833278/
[22:50] <mgdm> whee
[22:50] <bigcalm> That's using get_headers(). I'll carry on using wget but save with the correct filename
[22:59] <zleap> czajkowski, that aloha looks fine in xchat
[23:00] <AlanBell> it depends on the font you are using and the width of ▌in a substituted font if the glyph isn't in the one you are using
[23:00] <zleap> ah
[23:00] <AlanBell> compared to the width of a space in your normal font
[23:01] <AlanBell> terminal will overlap wide glyphs next to each other
[23:02] <AlanBell> like this ♥♥♥♥
[23:02] <AlanBell> graphical applications will make room for them
[23:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] KDE at FOSDEM 2012 - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4532
[23:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Canonical Community Team Meeting  7th Feb 2012 - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/07/canonical-community-team-meeting-7th-feb-2012/
[23:05] <gord> well pitivi crashed almost immediately, i see its not really come on much in the three years since i tried to work on it
[23:07]  * czajkowski hugs gord 
[23:08] <gord> \o/
[23:16] <czajkowski> gordonjcp: I've joined your ranks!
[23:16] <czajkowski> gord:
[23:16] <czajkowski> even
[23:17] <bigcalm> mgdm: http://www.myrant.net/2011/07/19/downloading-soundcloud-playlists/
[23:17] <gord> czajkowski, aha, another canonicalite i presume?
[23:17] <czajkowski> yup
[23:17] <gord> congrats :) we'll get the rest of the people in this channel some day
[23:17] <bigcalm> Heh
[23:18] <bigcalm> I'd consider a web dev job with Canonical if I wasn't heavily laden with work already
[23:18] <mgdm> you'd need to love the python, I suspect
[23:18] <bigcalm> :'(
[23:18] <gord> you do realise that once you get a new job, traditionally, you stop working on the old one right?
[23:18] <bigcalm> I really should learn it
[23:18] <gord> i mean, its just tradition, but still
[23:19] <bigcalm> gord: kinda like the work I have. Don't see the need in rocking the boat atm
[23:21] <czajkowski> can folks please confirm if this effects you on precise
[23:21] <czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-screenshot/+bug/928548
[23:22] <gord> pressed print screen earlier today, worked fine, but didn't present a dialog, just took the screenshot and stored it somewhere
[23:22] <gord> pitivi is really really really really really really bad, really bad
[23:22] <czajkowski> yes the somewhre is a bit anoying
[23:22] <czajkowski> the lack of dialogue is peeing me off
[23:22] <czajkowski> gord: now mark it effects you
[23:23] <gord> czajkowski, but that would be lying, it does save the image ;)
[23:23] <czajkowski> WHERE!
[23:23] <gord> i only know where because it just happened to save the image in a folder i synchronise with ubuntu one, so the u1 notification told me
[23:23] <czajkowski> gord: cheating!
[23:23] <czajkowski> gord: comment on the bug....
[23:23] <gord> ~/Pictures
[23:24] <czajkowski> hmmm
[23:40] <Colonel> channels
[23:43] <gord> grumble, pitivi is terrible and kdenlive which is pretty good, just happens to have a bug in its decoding library today
[23:45] <gord> openshot has the same bug :((