snap-lrick_h: _stink_  ^^02:41
snap-lSomething to look forward to02:41
rick_hsnap-l: :)02:42
_stink_snap-l: haha, good find03:00
snap-lOh, btw: Kubuntu is now officially the blue-headed stepchild03:00
* _stink_ plans to steal all the toys from the world's claw games03:00
tjagodaWhy is it not official?03:01
rick_hsnap-l: the token support is just over03:01
rick_hat least now it's honest03:01
tjagodanow official*03:01
snap-lrick_h: Yeah, at least it's not just one overworked developer during working hours03:01
snap-lnow it's just a community effort03:01
_stink_watch it thrive under its newfound freedom.03:03
tjagodaDid they sack the developer, or just move him to different projects?03:05
rick_htjagoda: reassign03:12
tjagoda"Instead of blue, we'd like you to use purple."03:12
snap-lGod, I am out of shape03:30
snap-lTrying to keep up w/ air drumming, and am out of breath after one song03:30
snap-lalso gave myslef the mother of all blisters on ,y index finger03:34
rick_htrying out firefox for the day, bookie is a chunk slower in it :(12:23
snap-lhow big of a chunk?12:36
Wolfgerrick_h: Well, I'm glad they're finally honest about not supporting Kubuntu12:36
Wolfgerand good morning. :-)12:37
rick_hsnap-l: 500ms12:37
snap-lI think I'm becoming rick_h12:37
rick_h1.7ms vs 1.2 or 900ms12:37
snap-lopting to use mutt to read my mail12:37
rick_hbwuhahahaha, let me know when you want to see my config stuff :)12:38
rick_hsnap-l: and make sure to remember the magic . key12:38
snap-lI shudder to think about rick_h's magic period12:38
snap-lAh, buffy list?12:39
snap-lI only have one inbox12:39
snap-lso it's a bit of a moot point. ;)12:39
snap-lThough CTRL-d is my friend for throwing out large threads that I don't care about12:40
snap-lie: flamefests on Full Discloosure12:40
Wolfgersnap-l: the phrase "rick_h's magic period" should never have been uttered.12:45
brouschThis is some weak sauce http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/02/07/0143224/canonical-pulls-kubuntu-personnel-funding12:46
Wolfgerbrousch: what did you expect?12:47
brouschI expect things not to change12:47
Wolfgerand you expect this because of buttons staying where they belong? Unity? The HUD?12:48
brouschThey have only been mucking up Gnome. KDE has been left alone12:48
WolfgerI understand Canonical pulled support because they realized Ubuntu was losing too many people to Kubuntu.12:48
Wolfgerand now KDE will be left alone for good. You should be happy. :-)12:49
brouschAt this point killing Kubuntu will not get me back on Ubuntu, it will get me onto another distro12:49
rick_hthey're not killing kubuntu12:49
rick_hthey're moving one canonical employee's duties12:50
brouschThey only had 1 guy on Kubuntu?12:50
brouschHe must've been awesome12:51
snap-lThey're making it more community-driven12:51
rick_hyes, this one guy, that canonical was paying a salary to work on kubuntu fulltime is getting a new duty within the compnay12:51
snap-lHe was the full-time employee overseeing12:51
rick_hbrousch: no, the point is that there's more to kubutun than one guy12:51
snap-lWell, actually, I'm overstating12:51
rick_hso this talk of "killing" a distro because they're reallocating one guy is a bit nuts12:51
snap-lrick_h: This is the Internet. We're not supposed to be rational12:52
brouschAre they looking for a new overseer?12:52
WolfgerThe point is, they were only ever paying lip service to Kubuntu support, and they decided it wasn't worth the money to keep up the facade.12:52
rick_hbrousch: they're looking for the community to take over12:52
rick_hWolfger: I think it's more "we need more resources, here's a good dev we could use on some things"12:53
snap-lWolfger: If it makes you happier to feel slighted, please feel free12:53
Wolfgerbrousch: I really don't see this move hurting Kubuntu at all, except possibly via some people's perceptions12:53
brouschSo you're saying it's time to get on the Kubuntu mailing lists to make sure it stays awesome?12:53
Wolfgersnap-l: I don't feel slighted. Although if I take to rick_h's explanation, I would...12:54
rick_hbrousch: sounds like a good plan12:54
rick_hwtf...Firefox...search in the address bar pls!12:54
rick_hWolfger: every company has priorities12:54
rick_hlaunchpad devs are off working on cloud things for canonical and not launchpad12:54
rick_hgood devs are hard to find and some things have higher priority than others12:54
rick_hsorry that kubuntu isn't job #1 :)12:55
brouschit should be. it's the only full-featured, usable interface left!12:55
Wolfgerrick_h: Oh, I understand they have to prioritize. I have no objections to that. I'm certainly not going to be *pleased* that their priorities are counter to mine, though.12:55
rick_h"he says to the man that runs awesome on ubuntu without any issues"12:55
rick_hWolfger: this is like being angry at Chrysler for not building more mopeds. I mean, it's what I want...not my problem that the main company focus are larger cars12:56
WolfgerAs a customer, you always have the right to tell the company you patronize what it is that you want. Although in this case "customer" may not be appropriate since I don't directly pay Canonical for anything.12:58
Wolfgerbut I feel like a customer, dammit :-)12:58
rick_hI'm glad you're realizing it though12:58
nullspaceWolfger: I just read, sorry buddy12:59
brouschhey, i bought stickers and a shirt, i'm a customer!12:59
brouschrick_h: you are still running awesome?13:02
brouschi thought they dogfooded you13:02
rick_hbrousch: forever!13:02
rick_hbrousch: heh, my second desktop has unity on it13:02
rick_hbut it's just a web browser holder13:02
rick_hbrousch:  https://plus.google.com/116120911388966791792/posts/cNYeLKcrntc13:02
brouschI think I'm sensitive about this Kubuntu thing because I feel like Canonical pulled a beautiful, working desktop out from under me once already13:06
rick_h*sigh* I want to like firefox but man13:10
brouschfirefox is fine. what's your gripe with it?13:10
rick_hseperate search, restart after extension install, size of chrome, performance, having the http:// in the url bar so I can't change prefix with home key13:11
rick_horeilly has some good stuff coming in the upcoming section13:47
rick_hamazon wishlist growing13:47
snap-lrick_h: links?14:26
jrwrenanyone use testdrive regularly?14:27
jrwrenkvm's -usb -usbdevice tablet isn't working with VNC for me. do you think I should file a bug?  an ubuntu bug or a KVM bug?14:28
rick_hsnap-l: http://amzn.com/w/2MA8O7BXBIDWH14:29
snap-lrick_h: Oh, nice.14:45
snap-lThe machine learningone should be fun14:46
snap-lCode Simplicity: The Science of Software Design <- Why does this not look like an O'Reilly title. :)14:47
snap-lWonder if it's along the same line as "Art of ..."14:47
snap-lrick_h: Thinking about doing more with Go?14:48
brouschI just got "Machine Learning with Mahout" for free from Manning http://manning.com/owen/14:48
brouschFor the GRMobileDev group14:48
rick_hthing on top of hadoop I think14:49
snap-lWow, that's a top 10 bad name.14:49
brouschwait, "Mahout in Action", where Mahout is a machine learning library14:49
brousch" Mahout, Apache's open source machine learning project, captures the core algorithms of recommendation systems, classification, and clustering in ready-to-use, scalable libraries. With Mahout, you can immediately apply to your own projects the machine learning techniques that drive Amazon, Netflix, and others."14:50
snap-lYeah, I can read. :)14:50
brouschi know. i just assumed you were lazy :P14:50
snap-lGood general assumption14:50
rick_halways a good assumption14:56
Wolfgerespecially on the internet14:56
brouschAny of you been to this? http://craftsmanguild.herokuapp.com/14:58
Wolfgerwhat I love is when somebody in AskUbuntu asks a question that sounds like it's easily Google-able, and I Google it and try to help them and they get all snotty with me and downvote me. Well if you already looked at that and it's not what you wanted, say so!14:58
rick_hbrousch: I think I remember seeing a note when it started14:58
brouschdecent topics http://craftsmanguild.herokuapp.com/events14:59
rick_hyea, looks like CHC ish weekly thing at a hacker space15:01
brouschhm, 4 hours of driving to hear mulka talk about GAE15:02
brouschand $50 in gas15:02
brouschi'm gonna have to pass15:02
brouschpass on the meeting, not pass gas15:03
rick_hmeh, pass both wth15:03
brouschyou only say that because there is a long distance between us15:03
rick_hI feel safer, definitely15:04
WolfgerI dunno... prevailing winds are west -> east15:05
Wolfgerlake effect snow + brousch gas could be devastating15:05
rick_hWolfger: right, but currently winds are out of the N15:06
* brousch heads for saginaw15:08
brouschyou guys watch this video? http://www.flossmanuals.net/15:18
brouschwe're famous!15:19
rick_hheh, we need to look a bit happier15:22
brouschrick_h: your shirt looks like it says "I P code"15:26
rick_hwoo hoo!15:26
rick_hnever stop making code, even in the bathroom15:27
jrwrenrick_h: you ARE thinking about doing more with go?  why?15:29
rick_hjrwren: for me I'm hoping it's a middle ground I can get comfy with15:30
rick_hI don't like doing java/mono/etc. I just can't stand it15:30
rick_hso hoping Go is some sort of middle ground between that world and python/ruby/js/etc15:31
rick_hand a chance to do some things with the concurrency/perf features15:31
jrwrenrick_h: wow, very cool answer :)15:32
rick_hheh, not sure if you mean that a bit sarcasticly there15:32
jrwrenno, i'm actually serious.15:33
brouschIsn't Boo a Python-like language for .net?15:33
rick_hbrousch: yea, but I'm not a fan of the whole "I want to be like X but don't like X so I'll do Y on X"15:33
jrwrenyes, but it has very little community, and you are still consuming .net libraries, I'd not actually suggest it to someone as an alt to python15:33
rick_hyou end up without getting either of the communities/etc I think15:34
rick_hso much of a language is the stuff beyond the code itself15:34
jrwrencommunity and activity in libraries15:34
jrwrenboo never reached that critical mass15:34
rick_hright, and things are put together differently based on the subtleties of the language15:34
jrwrenhell, the non-ms .net owrld never reached a good critical mass15:35
rick_hthings like concurrency are very different in python vs java vs go, etc15:35
rick_hjrwren: yea, though mono seems to be doing fairly well these days15:35
brouschjrwren: too much perception of possible evil balmer taint15:35
rick_hI wouldn't call it "critical mass" but surprised at how it's done15:35
rick_hbah, any programmer that's got balmer in his head needs help15:36
jrwrenmono forked to mobile.15:41
jrwrenoutside of mobile mono isn't moving very much15:41
jrwrenonly idiots percieve mono as balmer taint15:42
jrwrenboycottnovell guy is as crazy as gene ray15:42
jrwrena farm only needs one scarcrow, but i've seen more strawmen at his farm than I've seen corn stalks15:42
rick_hjrwren: yea? I had seen some posts with people playing with it the last few months in seemingly hobby areas which I thought was interesting15:42
jrwrenrick_h: well, web toys, but nothing big enough to make a huge impact. Manos is cool, but its not moving much AFAICT15:43
jrwrenwhat kind of stuff have you seen?15:43
rick_hjrwren: trying to think, someone was testing porting something for perf reasons I think?15:43
rick_hnot a ton I guess, but I don't see much "hobby" coding in mono stuff so it struck me15:44
rick_hbut yea, I don't see it much in my circles15:44
rick_hyou know what it is, I've seen people raving on mono edit or whatveer the ide is15:46
jrwrenmonodevelop is really nice.15:46
jrwrenoh, y aknow where else mono is actually awesome.  Google Native Client.15:47
rick_hah, that's cool15:47
jrwrenletting go of C# is difficult. i'm slowly letting go of my beloved :)15:50
rick_hit'll be ok :)15:52
rick_hwater is good over here15:52
brouschwhy let go?15:56
jrwreni've no use for it anylonger.16:02
rick_hjrwren: is it official?16:02
jrwreni did not get a new job.16:02
jrwreni've not heard anything.16:02
rick_hah ok16:02
rick_hjrwren: don't need it at srt any longer? I thought you guys still did a lot of .net stuff?16:02
jrwrenonly 1 project that only has 5 people on it.16:03
rick_hah, cool that you guys have done such a massive transition16:03
jrwrenwe are all ruby, python, objective-c, flex, html, css, js now16:03
jrwrenyeah, its been interesting.16:03
jrwrenoh, there was 1 other C# project that just finished, but it was 1 person16:03
rick_hjrwren: is michipug attended by many of srt these days then?16:06
jrwreni don't think so.16:07
jrwrenthe main python guy is darrell and he is president of local little league16:08
jrwrenand other one is Alex who lives in lansing and just had a baby.16:08
jrwrenso they could do better. :)16:08
rick_hI keep meaning to start heading out again now that I'm home full time16:08
jrwrenbut they are doing django a copule revs bak.16:09
jrwrenpython 2.4 I think, so going to a pug and seeing all the new stuff that they can't use might actually be depressing :)16:09
brouschomg, who still uses python2.4?16:12
jrwrenlots of people.16:12
jrwrenisn't GAE still p2.416:13
brouschno, it has 2.5 and recently 2.716:13
jrwrenoh coo..16:13
jrwrenso they are still there because that is what their hosted server runs.16:13
brouschdreamhost has 2.516:13
brouschthat server must be ancient16:14
jrwrenits not a sahred web host.16:14
jrwrensure, its a built from when they launched a few yrs ago.16:14
jrwrenit ain't broke, don't fix. :)16:14
brouschthat leads to cobol16:14
brouschand businesses that run on Access 9716:14
snap-ljrwren: I'm totally stealing that scarecrow / strawman / corn stalks analogy.16:15
jrwrensnap-l: feel free. i just came up with it :)16:16
jrwrenbrousch: we just talked ot a business that runs on access and ASP.16:16
jrwrenold... classic... vbscript ASP. :(16:16
jrwrenit works.16:16
jrwrenthe only reason they are looking to upgrade is that they cannot find devs willing to work on it!16:17
snap-lYeah, I find it interesting how we talk about X and y, but businesses are still on A, B, and C.16:18
snap-lnot even near the end of the alphabet. :)16:18
brouschjrwren: well i would consider that a kind of breakage16:19
jrwrenbrousch: yes, it is. When your cost of maint gets so high, you actually get ROI by rewriting with newer tech16:21
brouschoh baby, i have a tech-on http://www.google.com/cloudprint/learn/printers.html16:26
jrwrenyeah... works with chromeos devices too.16:29
snap-lbrousch: Um, make sure to wipe16:31
snap-la little lysol might sterilize those surfaces.16:31
brouschi love cloud print, but don't have an always-on windows or OSX machine at home to hook it up to16:31
brouschnow they have cloud-print ready printers16:31
snap-lHAven't found a usecase for that yet. :)16:32
brouschalso, this is a requirement for getting certain people in my family to go android-only at home16:32
snap-lAh, OK16:32
snap-lmobile devices16:32
brouschsnap-l: how about printing from your android phone?16:32
brouschfrom frickin anywhere16:32
snap-lI'll agree that networked printers are the bee's knees16:33
snap-lLike when I printed from the living room16:33
snap-lbut printing from my hotel room to my home printer? Notsomuch16:34
brouschwell if you want to print at all from android or chromeos you need cloudprint16:34
snap-lHowever, if it can kill the fax machine, I'm all for it.16:34
jrwreni just wish I had a printer with linux drivers :(  fucking dell16:34
snap-lsecure printing over the cloud = A+16:35
jrwrenbut it was a free printer16:35
snap-ljrwren: Brother or HP16:35
snap-lAnd Brother if you don't want to go blind buying consumables16:35
jrwrenyes, i moved from a $25 used HP 4L mp to this dell.16:35
snap-ljrwren: Does the Dell do networking?16:35
brouschsnap-l: i think your print jobs go through google, so depending on how paranoid you are cloud print might not suit you16:36
snap-lI'm paranoid enough to save my passwords with Google.16:36
snap-lbut not on truly secure sites. ;)16:36
snap-lI wouldn't send a form with my SSN through Google (knowingly)16:37
snap-lbut my address, sure.16:37
jrwrenthe dell does not do networking.16:42
snap-lAny chance of getting one that does? :)16:42
snap-lSeriously, dumpster dive16:43
jrwrenits not needed.16:43
jrwreni print once a month at the most.16:43
jrwrensomeimtes twice a yr16:44
brouschi print taxes and the occasional coupon16:44
brouschbut my parents print maps and such16:44
snap-lJoDee makes copies for her school stuff16:45
snap-lso we got the multifunction printer from hell. :)16:45
nixternalgalaxy nexus is such a garbage phone. so glad i switched to the rezound16:46
rick_hnixternal: heh, once I got mine replaced I"m happy camper16:46
rick_hnixternal: the razr maxx would be on my list I htink if I were to do over16:47
nixternalwhen you can overclock it to 2GHz, let me know :)16:47
nixternalmotorola can go to hell16:47
rick_hnixternal: heh, don't need to. I don't have any perf issues now16:47
nixternalme either, but it blew my mind that my cell phone hit 2GHz and was stable16:48
rick_hheh, awesome16:48
nixternalas for the galaxy nexus, friends don't let friends buy samsung16:48
jrwrendoesn't GOOG own that Moto now?16:49
nixternaljrwren: just the patents16:49
jrwrenmoto mobile is GOOG isn't it?16:49
snap-lI love that it starts off at $99, but then you add a reasonable plan ($60 for 450 minutes + unlimited texting) and then get dinged $30+ for data.16:49
nixternalfor the most part, yes16:49
jcastronot yet, hasn't been integrated yet16:49
snap-lso $90 a month for the phone16:50
jrwrennot just the patents: http://investor.google.com/releases/2011/0815.html16:50
nixternalahh, so glad i have unlimited data for $30. love being grandfathered16:50
snap-lnixternal: Not for long16:50
snap-lthey'll figure out how to kill your grandfather.16:50
nixternaljrwren: they are going to eventually dump moto mobility back to moto, i guarantee it. now i wonder how many of the old employees will switch back from google now that they are tasting the good life?16:51
nixternalthough, now we have 2 google shops in chicago, so you know that isn't going to stick16:51
nixternalsnap-l: and when they do, i will either switch or ditch it entirely.16:52
brouschso now razr maxx and rezound are what i should be looking at?16:52
jrwrengoogle shops?16:52
jrwrengoog has retail stores?16:52
rick_hbrousch: I still say look at nexus, I don't know what nixternal has against samsung16:52
nixternalbrousch: rezound rocks. htc allows you to easily unlock the boot loader. rezound has a much larger developer community than any motorola device16:52
rick_hICS ftw16:53
snap-lYeah, I want ICS16:53
nixternaldoesn't matter which phone you go with, they will both be EOL before the end of 2012 anyways. now you have to decide, that extra year on your contract, wouldn't you want to have the ability to install custom roms? if so, moto isn't what you want16:53
nixternali have ics on my rezound16:53
snap-lalthough frankly I'm still waffling on the iPhone. :)16:53
nixternalplus htc is about a month or 2 out from releasing ics for the rezound16:53
brouschsnap-l: die in a fire16:54
nixternalthe iphone is shit16:54
brouschyes, i want custom roms, preferably cyanogen16:54
snap-lI liked my corp iPhone16:54
snap-lI especailly liked the fact that they paid for it. :)16:54
* snap-l has a real problem spending $$ on data + voice16:54
nixternalbrousch: aosp and cm9 all around for the rezound, as well as a custom fixed up leak from htc16:55
nixternali seriously thought about going all apple, but after trying for a month, i had to return everything. i couldn't stand a damn thing. actually, i didn't even last 30 days16:56
nixternalthough, kubuntu on the air 13" was freakin' awesome!16:56
brouschi couldn't get dragging and dropping with the touchpad working well16:57
brouschusing kubuntu on a MBP16:57
* snap-l wonders about Republic Wireless.16:57
brousch300MB/mo wireless data is a no-go for me16:57
brouschalso i worry about maps on a long trip16:58
nixternali don't even use 2gb of data a month16:58
nixternali have the habit of "if there is wifi available, i am using it"16:58
brouschrepublic has a soft cap at 300MB16:58
nixternalbut 4g is just as fast, if not faster than most wifi hotspots anyways16:58
rick_hwireless is only any good if yuo have coverage16:59
brouschso you'd use it all in about 5 minutes of 4g16:59
rick_hand yea, I'm at 600MB in 4 days of usage16:59
rick_h(since I turned on the replacement nexus device16:59
rick_hnixternal: yes, 4g is MUCH faster than any wifi hotspot I've used16:59
rick_hhell, the upload is 6x my uverse home connection17:00
nixternalit is damn near as fast as my internet connection at home sometimes17:00
rick_hit's faster than mine if I head a bit closer to dtw17:00
snap-lI signed up for the beta.17:00
nixternali actually scored 12MB/s on the speed test with 4g17:00
nixternalthat blew my mind17:00
rick_hnixternal: heh, 28mb down 8mb up17:00
nixternalfunny thing, i can't get decent 3g in my house, yet the 4g totally rocks17:00
snap-l(Republic Wireless)17:00
rick_hthat was my record while at CHC on woodward17:01
brouschwow, rezound specs do look good http://www.phonearena.com/phones/compare/Motorola-DROID,HTC-Rezound,Samsung-GALAXY-Nexus/phones/3853,5799,559517:01
nixternaland htc will eventually allow every music app to utilize the beats audio, which make metallica sound better than anything i have listed to them on :)17:02
nixternali am not the biggest fan of sense <4.0, but it is still decent17:02
nixternalsense 4.0 rocks i have to say. granted they didn't use the ics look, but still, i prefer it over the stock ics experience i think17:03
brouschblah, i hate the add-on theme crap17:03
brouschwhich is why i like CM17:03
nixternalsense is more than theme crap, similar to motoblur, which is just awful17:05
rick_hnixternal: so why the samsung hate?17:05
nixternali don't hate samsung. all of my tv's are samsung17:06
rick_hok, why the samsung phone hate?17:06
nixternalnot so much hate, just 2 bad experiences with one17:06
brouschi've been really happy with my original droid17:07
nixternali usually don't have problems with my phone because i typically don't use stupid apps that drain the battery or what not, but the 4g connection was shit for me17:07
nixternalon my rezound, i haven't had an issue17:07
snap-lnixternal: SHow me on the phone where the Samsugng touched you17:07
nixternalplus i kept getting dead pixels17:07
nixternalsnap-l: i am tired of pulling down my pants for you everytime you get hungry :p17:07
brouschwow, the places nixternal goes17:08
brouschalways amazes me17:08
nixternali had to go there before snap-l did, but i will take the blame like usual :p17:08
brouschi can upgrade to rezound for $199 or Galaxy Nexus for $29917:09
nixternalif you go amazon, you create a new account, then when you get the phone, you call verizon and tell them to close that account and switch it to your current account17:09
nixternalthat is how you get phones cheaper on amazon17:09
nixternalthat is at least what i have read that everyone else does17:10
nixternaland verizon does it with no problem17:10
snap-lThis is why I hate phone companies17:11
nixternalok, gotta roll. doing a site assessment today. first non-coding job in a while17:11
brouschhm, $80 on amazon, might be worth it for $12017:11
snap-llaterness, nixternal17:11
nixternaloh, and don't forget about costco17:11
nixternalto get around their membership stuff if you don't have one, go to a store that sells gift cards and buy a couple costco ones. that gets you in and allows you to shop :)17:11
nixternalnow i can leave :) later17:12
snap-lNow I know why we haven't perm-banned him. ;)17:13
brouschi had no idea17:14
brouschmy sister is a costco member. i make her buy bulk soy milk for us and reimburse her17:18
jrwrenorganic or monstanto?17:24
* snap-l is eating edamame17:30
jrwrenorganic or monstanto?17:41
snap-lwhich means I'll probably be dead within the hour17:45
rick_hhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVjw7n_U37A YAY!17:48
rick_hhah love it, link it 404 wheee17:49
rick_hoooh, this is nice17:52
snap-lhttp://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596518875.do <- NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO18:00
rick_hoh man, this is slick, picks up my current tabs on the desktop, not hte laptop wonder why that is18:10
rick_hthere we go, sweet18:12
brouschchrome for android?18:12
brouschi feel another tech-on18:12
rick_hbrousch: yes, and the ui is slick, chrome sync18:13
rick_hI can see the tabs opened on my desktop/laptop and open any of them on my phone without this chrome2phone business18:13
brouschoh my. has it been 4 hours since my last tech-on?18:13
brouschi usually can't recover so quickly18:14
rick_hno extensions currently, but how badass would it be if the bookie extension could work across to the phone on there?!18:15
rick_hsuddenly much more fired up for the chrome extension refactor/rewrite18:16
snap-lOh, nice thought18:32
rick_hshould be kind of easy since hte extensions are html, just to treat the extension a bit like a new tab18:33
WolfgerI fucking hate Microsoft. That is all.18:35
snap-lWolfger: WHat now?18:39
snap-lrick_h: http://mattdw.github.com/2012/rapid-coffee-postmortem.html18:42
snap-lIf you don't blow up by the end of it, you're not trying.18:42
rick_hsnap-l: I posted it to G+ this morning18:43
rick_hactually liked it, good read18:43
rick_hand some good tips, I want to see her MakeFiles18:43
snap-lAh, must've missed it18:43
rick_hor his18:43
rick_hsnap-l: so you don't want to hear I bought the little book on coffeescript in my orielly checkup this morning?18:43
rick_hit's on my DX for some reading tonight18:44
snap-lOh you didn't. :)18:44
snap-lmydogsnameisrudy: You missed nixternal in the room earlier. :)18:45
brouschi don't think nixternal posted that. not enough cursing18:47
jrwrenuggg... learning C... offsetof()19:00
snap-lNever used that. Sounds a bit dangerous19:02
jrwrenits C19:03
mydogsnameisrudywhy is unity such a big thing im confused19:09
Wolfgersnap-l: My issue du jour (du heure?) with Microsoft is that when you are working in multiple Excel spreadsheets (as I often do), "undo" undoes your latest action *in ANY sheet*, not in the one you're currently focused on.19:10
brouschmydogsnameisrudy: because it's annoying19:10
mydogsnameisrudyya  i get that part ;)19:10
brouschit is more annoying than what came before it19:11
Blazeixrick_h: so are you toeing on to the coffeescript wagon?19:11
Blazeixit's starting to look pretty tempting19:11
rick_hBlazeix: I'm doing research.19:11
WolfgerSo I'm working along in multiple sheets, and suddenly realize I made a mistake an hour ago in another sheet I'm barely touching. I can't undo it without losing an hour's work in my primary sheet.19:11
rick_hBlazeix: I'm worried how it'll work fit around a framework19:11
rick_hBlazeix: but I think I want to find a bit of code to try it with19:11
Blazeixworks pretty seamlessly with backbone :D19:12
rick_hheh, well umm yea, I'm guessing backbone, underscore, and coffeescript would work together pretty well :P19:12
WolfgerI managed a workaround that involved saving things under different names, reopening them all, and copy/pasting the good work, but it's stressful and damned silly to have to deal with19:12
rick_h(all written by same guy for the non-js people)19:12
rick_hBlazeix: I still feel dirty, but I'm using sass which si the same thing just in css so I'm a hypocrite I admitit19:13
jrwrensnap-l: why should that read have made me blow up?19:13
jrwrensnap-l: so coffee script isn't a silver bullet, so what?19:14
snap-ljrwren: was meant for rick_h19:14
rick_hjrwren: yea, I'm the hater that snap-l like to try to get fired up19:14
snap-ljrwren: I'll need t resort to other tactics to get you fired up19:14
jrwrenwe have a guy here who LOVES backbone, underscore and coffeescript19:14
snap-ljrwren: Like saying patently false things like "Sisters of Mercy are overrated"19:14
jrwrenbut they are overrated :p19:15
jrwrenthat said... i want a 10min version of temple of love in my ears,right now19:15
rick_hjrwren: yea, it's not hard to find someone that jumps overboard on it19:15
rick_hbut see every "movement" like rails, django, etc19:15
snap-ljrwren: I love the titmle19:15
snap-ltitle, even19:15
snap-lWonder if I could use coffeescript to learn Javascript. :)19:16
snap-lso far the idioms I've seen used in the compiled versions make sense.19:16
rick_hI think it's the wrong way to go though19:16
rick_hI think it'd harm your ability to do non-coffee-js19:17
jrwrenprobably not.19:17
jrwreneasier to just learn JS19:17
jrwrenits a damned simple language19:17
snap-lrick_h: Well, I know enough JS19:17
snap-loh here we go19:17
rick_hsnap-l: but have you *done* enough JS?19:17
snap-lNo, I haven't19:17
jrwrenme either19:17
snap-lbecause frankly I think it's a shit language. :)19:17
rick_hthere you go, adding a layer on it won't help19:17
jrwrenever do lisp19:18
rick_htime for the doing19:18
rick_hnope, not intentionally19:18
snap-ljrwren: A little bit19:18
jrwrenJS is really just LISP with function(){} instead of just (((()))))19:18
jrwreni'm serious.19:18
snap-ljrwren: Oh hell no19:18
Wolfgerjrwren: I don't even do LISP, but I call BS19:19
jrwrenit has more in common wiht lisp than it does Java or TCL or anything that folks claim on which it is based19:19
jrwrenWolfger: how can you call BS if you don't do lisp?19:19
Wolfgerjrwren: I've seen lisp19:19
rick_hBlazeix: http://code.google.com/chrome/mobile/docs/debugging.html :)19:19
snap-lSorry, first search for prototype and lisp19:19
jrwrenseeing and doing are 2 different things.19:20
Blazeixrick_h: sweet, i've been playing the the chrome browser, and saw that option fly by19:20
jrwrenprototype inheritence is meaningless, you could impl the JS new keyword in lisp very easily and get prototype19:20
jrwrenlol... POOP framekworks.19:20
rick_hBlazeix: yea, I'm really digging it.19:21
rick_hBlazeix: seeing my tabs listed under the machine for laptop/desktop just sent things over the edge, and very qiuck19:21
rick_hI'll be so happy when mobile browsers have remote hooks like this though19:22
Blazeixi don't think that's anything new though19:22
rick_hnothing worse than debugging complex JS on mobile :/19:22
Blazeixthat's how remote webkit debugging works in general19:22
rick_hBlazeix: right, it's in webkit, but only the BB playbook was released19:22
rick_hso at least this means it can get into every ics device19:22
Blazeixi'm really happy with the chrome beta so far19:23
rick_hyea, definitely19:24
Blazeixthink it's going to replace the default android browser for me19:24
Blazeixthough i do miss my pie menu19:24
rick_hhah, definitely, but part of that was the horrible way the menu worked in the ics default browser19:24
snap-ljrwren: You're right. Hadn't thought of it that way before, but you're absolutely right19:25
Blazeixheh, yeah, the default menu was a bit funky19:25
rick_hBlazeix: yea, that stupid "drag down so you can see it, then quick click it before it hides..."19:26
jrwrensnap-l: wait, about what am I right? LISP?  ty.19:40
snap-lDon't let it go to your head. ;)19:45
snap-l(actually jrwren is right about more things than I am. ;) )19:46
jrwrenfurther: json is just a weak form of s-expressions.  sexp ftw. json ftw.20:03
rick_hanyone know how to glob with a not clause20:59
rick_htrying to glob for .js but not min.js20:59
Blazeixthat would be my guess21:04
rick_h*.js~*min* is working21:04
jrwrenshell glob or python glob lib?21:04
rick_hyea, the [^min] didn't work right21:04
rick_hof course this doesn't do me any good because the tool just wants .js files *isgh*21:04
rick_hthat's a bad sigh21:05
Blazeixhm, [^min] is kinda working for me21:05
Blazeixit excludes all combinations of the letters m, i, and ,n21:06
Blazeixcool, I never knew about the tilde syntax21:06
jrwrenglob not re21:07
rick_hheh, bah...bookie js docs suck :(21:07
rick_hBlazeix: yea, got it from http://www.zzapper.co.uk/zshtips.html21:07
rick_hdamn you audible for sucking me in21:08
brouschDoes this work for anyone? http://office.vdiw.net:800021:32
brouschlooking for comments on the design21:33
mydogsnameisrudywork as in come up21:33
brouschit's "mobile first", so it should look even better on a phone21:33
brouschor are they calling it responsive design now?21:34
brouschmydogsnameisrudy: yeah21:34
mydogsnameisrudyum first line " for monthly our meetings." is that to be hour?21:34
mydogsnameisrudyor its just not flowing right21:34
mydogsnameisrudyand im trying to learn python so ;)21:35
brouschmydogsnameisrudy: you're right, that was funky. fixed it21:37
mydogsnameisrudyok looking again21:37
mydogsnameisrudybetter ,,, can you teach me some ? ;)21:37
brouschi learned it all hanging out in here21:38
brouschso just stick around21:38
mydogsnameisrudyah ok well ill keep trying then21:38
mydogsnameisrudyjust to far for me to drive21:38
brouschok, that's an exageration, but this is a good place to start21:38
mydogsnameisrudyim in the U.P.21:38
brouschright, i mean hang out in #ubuntu-us-mi21:38
mydogsnameisrudyim all over xchat21:39
brouschbooks, web sites, and most importantly you need a project to work on21:40
mydogsnameisrudyi dont program at all is python good to start with21:41
mydogsnameisrudyok i was looking at C++ but got lookin at python and im sticking with that21:42
brouschC++ is hard21:43
mydogsnameisrudyim going thru learnpythonthehardway.org/book/21:43
brouschwell many of us in this channel are python programmers, so feel free to ask questions21:43
mydogsnameisrudyok i will you said i could ;)21:44
Blazeixif you're new to programming, you might also try http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/python/english2e/21:44
mydogsnameisrudylook out21:44
mydogsnameisrudyok ill look at that too21:44
mydogsnameisrudymaybe ill drive down to your meeting some time21:45
brouschlooong drive21:46
brouschis detroit or ann arbor closer than grand rapids?21:46
mydogsnameisrudyann arbor is the closest21:46
mydogsnameisrudybut it all the same 4 - 5 hours21:46
brouschthat's the ann arbor group21:47
mydogsnameisrudyim going to do a local linux day up here this summer21:47
brouschouch. 5 hours21:47
brouschthat's like me driving to columbus!21:47
snap-lbrousch: It looks a little funky on my side21:47
mydogsnameisrudyya its a long drive21:47
snap-lMight want to put "Sorry, there aren't..." centered under "upcoming meetings"21:48
snap-lotherwise the left justification looks odd on larger monitors21:48
brouschyeah, i haven't done much to prettify it for buig screens yet21:49
brouschi'll combine the greeting and upcoming meetings into the same row on big screens21:50
mydogsnameisrudygot a noob quiestion about python , how do you get a script to run with out terminal and python..  hmmm how do i say it ?21:52
brouschput this at the very top of the script21:53
brousch#!/usr/bin/env python21:54
brouschthen make the file executable21:54
brouschchmod +x myfile.py21:54
mydogsnameisrudywill the file need to in the folder?21:55
mydogsnameisrudythe script i write can be in any folder?21:56
brouschyes, but usually you have a project folder for each project21:56
mydogsnameisrudythx learning more21:56
brouschok, time to get out of here21:59
tjagodaDid not get the canonical job23:55
tjagodaHowever, I got a very long and personalized sorry email which encouraged me to apply again the future, so as far as rejections go, I call that a pretty good one23:56

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