[02:41] <snap-l> http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2012/02/has-a-toddlers-mischief-ever-caught-you-off-guard.html
[02:41] <snap-l> rick_h: _stink_  ^^
[02:41] <snap-l> Something to look forward to
[02:42] <rick_h> snap-l: :)
[03:00] <_stink_> snap-l: haha, good find
[03:00] <snap-l> Oh, btw: Kubuntu is now officially the blue-headed stepchild
[03:00]  * _stink_ plans to steal all the toys from the world's claw games
[03:01] <tjagoda> Why is it not official?
[03:01] <rick_h> snap-l: the token support is just over
[03:01] <rick_h> at least now it's honest
[03:01] <tjagoda> now official*
[03:01] <snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, at least it's not just one overworked developer during working hours
[03:01] <snap-l> now it's just a community effort
[03:01] <tjagoda> ohh
[03:01] <tjagoda> IseeIsee
[03:03] <_stink_> watch it thrive under its newfound freedom.
[03:05] <tjagoda> Did they sack the developer, or just move him to different projects?
[03:12] <rick_h> tjagoda: reassign
[03:12] <tjagoda> "Instead of blue, we'd like you to use purple."
[03:30] <snap-l> God, I am out of shape
[03:30] <snap-l> Trying to keep up w/ air drumming, and am out of breath after one song
[03:34] <snap-l> also gave myslef the mother of all blisters on ,y index finger
[12:13] <mydogsnameisrudy> Morning
[12:23] <rick_h> trying out firefox for the day, bookie is a chunk slower in it :(
[12:36] <snap-l> how big of a chunk?
[12:36] <Wolfger> rick_h: Well, I'm glad they're finally honest about not supporting Kubuntu
[12:37] <Wolfger> and good morning. :-)
[12:37] <rick_h> snap-l: 500ms
[12:37] <snap-l> I think I'm becoming rick_h
[12:37] <rick_h> 1.7ms vs 1.2 or 900ms
[12:37] <snap-l> opting to use mutt to read my mail
[12:38] <rick_h> bwuhahahaha, let me know when you want to see my config stuff :)
[12:38] <rick_h> snap-l: and make sure to remember the magic . key
[12:38] <snap-l> I shudder to think about rick_h's magic period
[12:39] <snap-l> Ah, buffy list?
[12:39] <snap-l> I only have one inbox
[12:39] <snap-l> so it's a bit of a moot point. ;)
[12:40] <snap-l> Though CTRL-d is my friend for throwing out large threads that I don't care about
[12:40] <snap-l> ie: flamefests on Full Discloosure
[12:45] <Wolfger> snap-l: the phrase "rick_h's magic period" should never have been uttered.
[12:46] <brousch> This is some weak sauce http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/02/07/0143224/canonical-pulls-kubuntu-personnel-funding
[12:47] <Wolfger> brousch: what did you expect?
[12:47] <brousch> I expect things not to change
[12:47] <Wolfger> LOL
[12:48] <Wolfger> and you expect this because of buttons staying where they belong? Unity? The HUD?
[12:48] <brousch> They have only been mucking up Gnome. KDE has been left alone
[12:48] <Wolfger> I understand Canonical pulled support because they realized Ubuntu was losing too many people to Kubuntu.
[12:49] <Wolfger> and now KDE will be left alone for good. You should be happy. :-)
[12:49] <brousch> At this point killing Kubuntu will not get me back on Ubuntu, it will get me onto another distro
[12:49] <rick_h> they're not killing kubuntu
[12:50] <rick_h> they're moving one canonical employee's duties
[12:50] <brousch> They only had 1 guy on Kubuntu?
[12:51] <snap-l> yes
[12:51] <brousch> He must've been awesome
[12:51] <snap-l> They're making it more community-driven
[12:51] <rick_h> yes, this one guy, that canonical was paying a salary to work on kubuntu fulltime is getting a new duty within the compnay
[12:51] <snap-l> He was the full-time employee overseeing
[12:51] <rick_h> brousch: no, the point is that there's more to kubutun than one guy
[12:51] <snap-l> Well, actually, I'm overstating
[12:51] <rick_h> so this talk of "killing" a distro because they're reallocating one guy is a bit nuts
[12:52] <snap-l> rick_h: This is the Internet. We're not supposed to be rational
[12:52] <brousch> Are they looking for a new overseer?
[12:52] <Wolfger> The point is, they were only ever paying lip service to Kubuntu support, and they decided it wasn't worth the money to keep up the facade.
[12:52] <rick_h> brousch: they're looking for the community to take over
[12:53] <rick_h> Wolfger: I think it's more "we need more resources, here's a good dev we could use on some things"
[12:53] <snap-l> Wolfger: If it makes you happier to feel slighted, please feel free
[12:53] <Wolfger> brousch: I really don't see this move hurting Kubuntu at all, except possibly via some people's perceptions
[12:53] <snap-l> ;)
[12:53] <brousch> So you're saying it's time to get on the Kubuntu mailing lists to make sure it stays awesome?
[12:54] <snap-l> Absolutely
[12:54] <Wolfger> snap-l: I don't feel slighted. Although if I take to rick_h's explanation, I would...
[12:54] <rick_h> brousch: sounds like a good plan
[12:54] <rick_h> wtf...Firefox...search in the address bar pls!
[12:54] <rick_h> Wolfger: every company has priorities
[12:54] <rick_h> launchpad devs are off working on cloud things for canonical and not launchpad
[12:54] <rick_h> good devs are hard to find and some things have higher priority than others
[12:55] <rick_h> sorry that kubuntu isn't job #1 :)
[12:55] <brousch> it should be. it's the only full-featured, usable interface left!
[12:55] <Wolfger> rick_h: Oh, I understand they have to prioritize. I have no objections to that. I'm certainly not going to be *pleased* that their priorities are counter to mine, though.
[12:55] <rick_h> "he says to the man that runs awesome on ubuntu without any issues"
[12:56] <rick_h> Wolfger: this is like being angry at Chrysler for not building more mopeds. I mean, it's what I want...not my problem that the main company focus are larger cars
[12:58] <Wolfger> As a customer, you always have the right to tell the company you patronize what it is that you want. Although in this case "customer" may not be appropriate since I don't directly pay Canonical for anything.
[12:58] <Wolfger> but I feel like a customer, dammit :-)
[12:58] <rick_h> :)
[12:58] <rick_h> I'm glad you're realizing it though
[12:59] <nullspace> Wolfger: I just read, sorry buddy
[12:59] <brousch> hey, i bought stickers and a shirt, i'm a customer!
[13:02] <brousch> rick_h: you are still running awesome?
[13:02] <brousch> i thought they dogfooded you
[13:02] <rick_h> brousch: forever!
[13:02] <rick_h> brousch: heh, my second desktop has unity on it
[13:02] <rick_h> but it's just a web browser holder
[13:02] <rick_h> brousch:  https://plus.google.com/116120911388966791792/posts/cNYeLKcrntc
[13:06] <brousch> I think I'm sensitive about this Kubuntu thing because I feel like Canonical pulled a beautiful, working desktop out from under me once already
[13:10] <rick_h> *sigh* I want to like firefox but man
[13:10] <brousch> firefox is fine. what's your gripe with it?
[13:11] <rick_h> seperate search, restart after extension install, size of chrome, performance, having the http:// in the url bar so I can't change prefix with home key
[13:47] <rick_h> oreilly has some good stuff coming in the upcoming section
[13:47] <rick_h> amazon wishlist growing
[14:26] <snap-l> rick_h: links?
[14:27] <jrwren> anyone use testdrive regularly?
[14:28] <jrwren> kvm's -usb -usbdevice tablet isn't working with VNC for me. do you think I should file a bug?  an ubuntu bug or a KVM bug?
[14:29] <rick_h> snap-l: http://amzn.com/w/2MA8O7BXBIDWH
[14:45] <snap-l> rick_h: Oh, nice.
[14:46] <snap-l> The machine learningone should be fun
[14:47] <rick_h> possibly
[14:47] <snap-l> Code Simplicity: The Science of Software Design <- Why does this not look like an O'Reilly title. :)
[14:47] <snap-l> Wonder if it's along the same line as "Art of ..."
[14:48] <snap-l> rick_h: Thinking about doing more with Go?
[14:48] <rick_h> yea
[14:48] <brousch> I just got "Machine Learning with Mahout" for free from Manning http://manning.com/owen/
[14:48] <brousch> For the GRMobileDev group
[14:48] <snap-l> Mahout?
[14:49] <rick_h> thing on top of hadoop I think
[14:49] <snap-l> Wow, that's a top 10 bad name.
[14:49] <brousch> wait, "Mahout in Action", where Mahout is a machine learning library
[14:50] <brousch> " Mahout, Apache's open source machine learning project, captures the core algorithms of recommendation systems, classification, and clustering in ready-to-use, scalable libraries. With Mahout, you can immediately apply to your own projects the machine learning techniques that drive Amazon, Netflix, and others."
[14:50] <snap-l> Yeah, I can read. :)
[14:50] <brousch> i know. i just assumed you were lazy :P
[14:50] <rick_h> hah
[14:50] <snap-l> Good general assumption
[14:55] <Wolfger> heh
[14:56] <rick_h> always a good assumption
[14:56] <Wolfger> especially on the internet
[14:58] <brousch> Any of you been to this? http://craftsmanguild.herokuapp.com/
[14:58] <Wolfger> what I love is when somebody in AskUbuntu asks a question that sounds like it's easily Google-able, and I Google it and try to help them and they get all snotty with me and downvote me. Well if you already looked at that and it's not what you wanted, say so!
[14:58] <rick_h> brousch: I think I remember seeing a note when it started
[14:59] <brousch> decent topics http://craftsmanguild.herokuapp.com/events
[15:01] <rick_h> yea, looks like CHC ish weekly thing at a hacker space
[15:02] <brousch> hm, 4 hours of driving to hear mulka talk about GAE
[15:02] <rick_h> heh
[15:02] <brousch> and $50 in gas
[15:02] <brousch> i'm gonna have to pass
[15:03] <brousch> pass on the meeting, not pass gas
[15:03] <rick_h> meh, pass both wth
[15:03] <brousch> you only say that because there is a long distance between us
[15:04] <rick_h> I feel safer, definitely
[15:05] <Wolfger> I dunno... prevailing winds are west -> east
[15:05] <Wolfger> lake effect snow + brousch gas could be devastating
[15:06] <rick_h> Wolfger: right, but currently winds are out of the N
[15:08]  * brousch heads for saginaw
[15:09] <rick_h> nnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[15:18] <brousch> you guys watch this video? http://www.flossmanuals.net/
[15:18] <brousch> doh
[15:19] <brousch> http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/07/ubuntu-global-jam-call-for-events-2/
[15:19] <brousch> we're famous!
[15:22] <rick_h> heh, we need to look a bit happier
[15:26] <brousch> rick_h: your shirt looks like it says "I P code"
[15:26] <rick_h> woo hoo!
[15:27] <rick_h> never stop making code, even in the bathroom
[15:29] <jrwren> rick_h: you ARE thinking about doing more with go?  why?
[15:30] <rick_h> jrwren: for me I'm hoping it's a middle ground I can get comfy with
[15:30] <rick_h> I don't like doing java/mono/etc. I just can't stand it
[15:31] <rick_h> so hoping Go is some sort of middle ground between that world and python/ruby/js/etc
[15:31] <rick_h> and a chance to do some things with the concurrency/perf features
[15:32] <jrwren> rick_h: wow, very cool answer :)
[15:32] <rick_h> heh, not sure if you mean that a bit sarcasticly there
[15:33] <jrwren> no, i'm actually serious.
[15:33] <brousch> Isn't Boo a Python-like language for .net?
[15:33] <rick_h> brousch: yea, but I'm not a fan of the whole "I want to be like X but don't like X so I'll do Y on X"
[15:33] <jrwren> yes, but it has very little community, and you are still consuming .net libraries, I'd not actually suggest it to someone as an alt to python
[15:34] <rick_h> you end up without getting either of the communities/etc I think
[15:34] <rick_h> so much of a language is the stuff beyond the code itself
[15:34] <jrwren> right.
[15:34] <jrwren> community and activity in libraries
[15:34] <jrwren> boo never reached that critical mass
[15:34] <rick_h> right, and things are put together differently based on the subtleties of the language
[15:35] <jrwren> hell, the non-ms .net owrld never reached a good critical mass
[15:35] <rick_h> things like concurrency are very different in python vs java vs go, etc
[15:35] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, though mono seems to be doing fairly well these days
[15:35] <brousch> jrwren: too much perception of possible evil balmer taint
[15:35] <rick_h> I wouldn't call it "critical mass" but surprised at how it's done
[15:36] <rick_h> bah, any programmer that's got balmer in his head needs help
[15:41] <jrwren> mono forked to mobile.
[15:41] <jrwren> outside of mobile mono isn't moving very much
[15:42] <jrwren> only idiots percieve mono as balmer taint
[15:42] <jrwren> boycottnovell guy is as crazy as gene ray
[15:42] <jrwren> a farm only needs one scarcrow, but i've seen more strawmen at his farm than I've seen corn stalks
[15:42] <rick_h> jrwren: yea? I had seen some posts with people playing with it the last few months in seemingly hobby areas which I thought was interesting
[15:43] <jrwren> rick_h: well, web toys, but nothing big enough to make a huge impact. Manos is cool, but its not moving much AFAICT
[15:43] <jrwren> what kind of stuff have you seen?
[15:43] <rick_h> jrwren: trying to think, someone was testing porting something for perf reasons I think?
[15:44] <rick_h> not a ton I guess, but I don't see much "hobby" coding in mono stuff so it struck me
[15:44] <rick_h> but yea, I don't see it much in my circles
[15:45] <jrwren> right
[15:46] <rick_h> you know what it is, I've seen people raving on mono edit or whatveer the ide is
[15:46] <jrwren> monodevelop?
[15:46] <rick_h> yea
[15:46] <jrwren> monodevelop is really nice.
[15:47] <jrwren> oh, y aknow where else mono is actually awesome.  Google Native Client.
[15:47] <rick_h> ah, that's cool
[15:50] <jrwren> letting go of C# is difficult. i'm slowly letting go of my beloved :)
[15:52] <rick_h> it'll be ok :)
[15:52] <rick_h> water is good over here
[15:56] <brousch> why let go?
[16:02] <jrwren> i've no use for it anylonger.
[16:02] <rick_h> jrwren: is it official?
[16:02] <jrwren> i did not get a new job.
[16:02] <jrwren> i've not heard anything.
[16:02] <rick_h> ah ok
[16:02] <rick_h> jrwren: don't need it at srt any longer? I thought you guys still did a lot of .net stuff?
[16:03] <jrwren> only 1 project that only has 5 people on it.
[16:03] <rick_h> ah, cool that you guys have done such a massive transition
[16:03] <jrwren> we are all ruby, python, objective-c, flex, html, css, js now
[16:03] <jrwren> yeah, its been interesting.
[16:03] <jrwren> oh, there was 1 other C# project that just finished, but it was 1 person
[16:05] <brousch> wow
[16:06] <rick_h> jrwren: is michipug attended by many of srt these days then?
[16:07] <jrwren> i don't think so.
[16:08] <jrwren> the main python guy is darrell and he is president of local little league
[16:08] <jrwren> and other one is Alex who lives in lansing and just had a baby.
[16:08] <rick_h> gotcha
[16:08] <jrwren> so they could do better. :)
[16:08] <rick_h> I keep meaning to start heading out again now that I'm home full time
[16:09] <jrwren> but they are doing django a copule revs bak.
[16:09] <jrwren> python 2.4 I think, so going to a pug and seeing all the new stuff that they can't use might actually be depressing :)
[16:09] <rick_h> hah
[16:12] <brousch> omg, who still uses python2.4?
[16:12] <jrwren> lots of people.
[16:13] <jrwren> isn't GAE still p2.4
[16:13] <brousch> no, it has 2.5 and recently 2.7
[16:13] <jrwren> oh coo..
[16:13] <jrwren> so they are still there because that is what their hosted server runs.
[16:13] <brousch> dreamhost has 2.5
[16:14] <brousch> that server must be ancient
[16:14] <jrwren> its not a sahred web host.
[16:14] <jrwren> sure, its a built from when they launched a few yrs ago.
[16:14] <jrwren> it ain't broke, don't fix. :)
[16:14] <brousch> that leads to cobol
[16:14] <brousch> and businesses that run on Access 97
[16:15] <snap-l> jrwren: I'm totally stealing that scarecrow / strawman / corn stalks analogy.
[16:16] <jrwren> snap-l: feel free. i just came up with it :)
[16:16] <jrwren> brousch: we just talked ot a business that runs on access and ASP.
[16:16] <jrwren> old... classic... vbscript ASP. :(
[16:16] <jrwren> it works.
[16:17] <jrwren> the only reason they are looking to upgrade is that they cannot find devs willing to work on it!
[16:18] <snap-l> Yeah, I find it interesting how we talk about X and y, but businesses are still on A, B, and C.
[16:18] <snap-l> not even near the end of the alphabet. :)
[16:19] <brousch> jrwren: well i would consider that a kind of breakage
[16:19] <snap-l> unfixable.
[16:21] <jrwren> brousch: yes, it is. When your cost of maint gets so high, you actually get ROI by rewriting with newer tech
[16:26] <brousch> oh baby, i have a tech-on http://www.google.com/cloudprint/learn/printers.html
[16:29] <jrwren> yeah... works with chromeos devices too.
[16:31] <snap-l> brousch: Um, make sure to wipe
[16:31] <snap-l> a little lysol might sterilize those surfaces.
[16:31] <brousch> i love cloud print, but don't have an always-on windows or OSX machine at home to hook it up to
[16:31] <brousch> now they have cloud-print ready printers
[16:32] <snap-l> HAven't found a usecase for that yet. :)
[16:32] <brousch> also, this is a requirement for getting certain people in my family to go android-only at home
[16:32] <snap-l> Ah, OK
[16:32] <snap-l> mobile devices
[16:32] <brousch> snap-l: how about printing from your android phone?
[16:32] <brousch> from frickin anywhere
[16:33] <snap-l> I'll agree that networked printers are the bee's knees
[16:33] <snap-l> Like when I printed from the living room
[16:34] <snap-l> but printing from my hotel room to my home printer? Notsomuch
[16:34] <brousch> well if you want to print at all from android or chromeos you need cloudprint
[16:34] <snap-l> However, if it can kill the fax machine, I'm all for it.
[16:34] <jrwren> i just wish I had a printer with linux drivers :(  fucking dell
[16:35] <snap-l> secure printing over the cloud = A+
[16:35] <jrwren> but it was a free printer
[16:35] <snap-l> jrwren: Brother or HP
[16:35] <snap-l> And Brother if you don't want to go blind buying consumables
[16:35] <jrwren> yes, i moved from a $25 used HP 4L mp to this dell.
[16:35] <snap-l> jrwren: Does the Dell do networking?
[16:36] <brousch> snap-l: i think your print jobs go through google, so depending on how paranoid you are cloud print might not suit you
[16:36] <snap-l> I'm paranoid enough to save my passwords with Google.
[16:36] <snap-l> but not on truly secure sites. ;)
[16:37] <snap-l> I wouldn't send a form with my SSN through Google (knowingly)
[16:37] <snap-l> but my address, sure.
[16:42] <jrwren> the dell does not do networking.
[16:42] <snap-l> Ugh
[16:42] <snap-l> Any chance of getting one that does? :)
[16:43] <snap-l> Seriously, dumpster dive
[16:43] <jrwren> meh.
[16:43] <jrwren> its not needed.
[16:43] <jrwren> i print once a month at the most.
[16:44] <jrwren> someimtes twice a yr
[16:44] <brousch> i print taxes and the occasional coupon
[16:44] <brousch> but my parents print maps and such
[16:45] <snap-l> http://www.gottabemobile.com/2012/02/07/verizon-galaxy-nexus-drops-to-99-at-amazon/
[16:45] <snap-l> JoDee makes copies for her school stuff
[16:45] <snap-l> so we got the multifunction printer from hell. :)
[16:46] <nixternal> galaxy nexus is such a garbage phone. so glad i switched to the rezound
[16:46] <rick_h> nixternal: heh, once I got mine replaced I"m happy camper
[16:47] <rick_h> nixternal: the razr maxx would be on my list I htink if I were to do over
[16:47] <nixternal> when you can overclock it to 2GHz, let me know :)
[16:47] <nixternal> motorola can go to hell
[16:47] <rick_h> nixternal: heh, don't need to. I don't have any perf issues now
[16:48] <nixternal> me either, but it blew my mind that my cell phone hit 2GHz and was stable
[16:48] <rick_h> heh, awesome
[16:48] <nixternal> as for the galaxy nexus, friends don't let friends buy samsung
[16:49] <rick_h> ouch
[16:49] <jrwren> doesn't GOOG own that Moto now?
[16:49] <nixternal> :)
[16:49] <nixternal> jrwren: just the patents
[16:49] <jrwren> moto mobile is GOOG isn't it?
[16:49] <snap-l> I love that it starts off at $99, but then you add a reasonable plan ($60 for 450 minutes + unlimited texting) and then get dinged $30+ for data.
[16:49] <nixternal> for the most part, yes
[16:49] <jcastro> not yet, hasn't been integrated yet
[16:50] <snap-l> so $90 a month for the phone
[16:50] <jrwren> not just the patents: http://investor.google.com/releases/2011/0815.html
[16:50] <nixternal> ahh, so glad i have unlimited data for $30. love being grandfathered
[16:50] <snap-l> nixternal: Not for long
[16:50] <snap-l> they'll figure out how to kill your grandfather.
[16:51] <nixternal> jrwren: they are going to eventually dump moto mobility back to moto, i guarantee it. now i wonder how many of the old employees will switch back from google now that they are tasting the good life?
[16:51] <nixternal> though, now we have 2 google shops in chicago, so you know that isn't going to stick
[16:52] <nixternal> snap-l: and when they do, i will either switch or ditch it entirely.
[16:52] <brousch> so now razr maxx and rezound are what i should be looking at?
[16:52] <jrwren> google shops?
[16:52] <jrwren> goog has retail stores?
[16:52] <rick_h> brousch: I still say look at nexus, I don't know what nixternal has against samsung
[16:52] <nixternal> brousch: rezound rocks. htc allows you to easily unlock the boot loader. rezound has a much larger developer community than any motorola device
[16:53] <rick_h> ICS ftw
[16:53] <snap-l> Yeah, I want ICS
[16:53] <nixternal> doesn't matter which phone you go with, they will both be EOL before the end of 2012 anyways. now you have to decide, that extra year on your contract, wouldn't you want to have the ability to install custom roms? if so, moto isn't what you want
[16:53] <nixternal> i have ics on my rezound
[16:53] <snap-l> although frankly I'm still waffling on the iPhone. :)
[16:53] <nixternal> plus htc is about a month or 2 out from releasing ics for the rezound
[16:54] <brousch> snap-l: die in a fire
[16:54] <nixternal> the iphone is shit
[16:54] <brousch> yes, i want custom roms, preferably cyanogen
[16:54] <snap-l> I liked my corp iPhone
[16:54] <snap-l> I especailly liked the fact that they paid for it. :)
[16:54]  * snap-l has a real problem spending $$ on data + voice
[16:55] <nixternal> brousch: aosp and cm9 all around for the rezound, as well as a custom fixed up leak from htc
[16:56] <nixternal> i seriously thought about going all apple, but after trying for a month, i had to return everything. i couldn't stand a damn thing. actually, i didn't even last 30 days
[16:56] <nixternal> though, kubuntu on the air 13" was freakin' awesome!
[16:57] <brousch> i couldn't get dragging and dropping with the touchpad working well
[16:57] <brousch> using kubuntu on a MBP
[16:57]  * snap-l wonders about Republic Wireless.
[16:57] <brousch> 300MB/mo wireless data is a no-go for me
[16:58] <brousch> also i worry about maps on a long trip
[16:58] <nixternal> i don't even use 2gb of data a month
[16:58] <nixternal> i have the habit of "if there is wifi available, i am using it"
[16:58] <brousch> republic has a soft cap at 300MB
[16:58] <brousch> MB
[16:58] <snap-l> Ah
[16:58] <nixternal> but 4g is just as fast, if not faster than most wifi hotspots anyways
[16:59] <rick_h> wireless is only any good if yuo have coverage
[16:59] <brousch> so you'd use it all in about 5 minutes of 4g
[16:59] <rick_h> and yea, I'm at 600MB in 4 days of usage
[16:59] <rick_h> (since I turned on the replacement nexus device
[16:59] <rick_h> nixternal: yes, 4g is MUCH faster than any wifi hotspot I've used
[17:00] <rick_h> hell, the upload is 6x my uverse home connection
[17:00] <nixternal> it is damn near as fast as my internet connection at home sometimes
[17:00] <rick_h> it's faster than mine if I head a bit closer to dtw
[17:00] <snap-l> I signed up for the beta.
[17:00] <nixternal> i actually scored 12MB/s on the speed test with 4g
[17:00] <nixternal> that blew my mind
[17:00] <rick_h> nixternal: heh, 28mb down 8mb up
[17:00] <nixternal> funny thing, i can't get decent 3g in my house, yet the 4g totally rocks
[17:00] <snap-l> (Republic Wireless)
[17:01] <rick_h> that was my record while at CHC on woodward
[17:01] <brousch> wow, rezound specs do look good http://www.phonearena.com/phones/compare/Motorola-DROID,HTC-Rezound,Samsung-GALAXY-Nexus/phones/3853,5799,5595
[17:02] <nixternal> and htc will eventually allow every music app to utilize the beats audio, which make metallica sound better than anything i have listed to them on :)
[17:02] <nixternal> i am not the biggest fan of sense <4.0, but it is still decent
[17:03] <nixternal> sense 4.0 rocks i have to say. granted they didn't use the ics look, but still, i prefer it over the stock ics experience i think
[17:03] <brousch> blah, i hate the add-on theme crap
[17:03] <brousch> which is why i like CM
[17:05] <nixternal> sense is more than theme crap, similar to motoblur, which is just awful
[17:05] <rick_h> nixternal: so why the samsung hate?
[17:06] <nixternal> i don't hate samsung. all of my tv's are samsung
[17:06] <rick_h> ok, why the samsung phone hate?
[17:06] <nixternal> not so much hate, just 2 bad experiences with one
[17:07] <brousch> i've been really happy with my original droid
[17:07] <nixternal> i usually don't have problems with my phone because i typically don't use stupid apps that drain the battery or what not, but the 4g connection was shit for me
[17:07] <nixternal> on my rezound, i haven't had an issue
[17:07] <snap-l> nixternal: SHow me on the phone where the Samsugng touched you
[17:07] <nixternal> plus i kept getting dead pixels
[17:07] <nixternal> snap-l: i am tired of pulling down my pants for you everytime you get hungry :p
[17:08] <brousch> wow, the places nixternal goes
[17:08] <nixternal> :)
[17:08] <brousch> always amazes me
[17:08] <nixternal> i had to go there before snap-l did, but i will take the blame like usual :p
[17:09] <brousch> i can upgrade to rezound for $199 or Galaxy Nexus for $299
[17:09] <nixternal> if you go amazon, you create a new account, then when you get the phone, you call verizon and tell them to close that account and switch it to your current account
[17:09] <nixternal> that is how you get phones cheaper on amazon
[17:10] <nixternal> that is at least what i have read that everyone else does
[17:10] <nixternal> and verizon does it with no problem
[17:10] <brousch> geez
[17:11] <snap-l> This is why I hate phone companies
[17:11] <nixternal> ok, gotta roll. doing a site assessment today. first non-coding job in a while
[17:11] <brousch> hm, $80 on amazon, might be worth it for $120
[17:11] <snap-l> laterness, nixternal
[17:11] <nixternal> oh, and don't forget about costco
[17:11] <nixternal> to get around their membership stuff if you don't have one, go to a store that sells gift cards and buy a couple costco ones. that gets you in and allows you to shop :)
[17:12] <nixternal> now i can leave :) later
[17:13] <snap-l> Now I know why we haven't perm-banned him. ;)
[17:14] <brousch> i had no idea
[17:18] <brousch> my sister is a costco member. i make her buy bulk soy milk for us and reimburse her
[17:19] <snap-l> heh
[17:24] <jrwren> organic or monstanto?
[17:30]  * snap-l is eating edamame
[17:41] <jrwren> organic or monstanto?
[17:45] <snap-l> Chinese
[17:45] <snap-l> which means I'll probably be dead within the hour
[17:48] <rick_h> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVjw7n_U37A YAY!
[17:49] <rick_h> hah love it, link it 404 wheee
[17:52] <rick_h> oooh, this is nice
[18:00] <snap-l> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596518875.do <- NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[18:10] <rick_h> oh man, this is slick, picks up my current tabs on the desktop, not hte laptop wonder why that is
[18:12] <rick_h> there we go, sweet
[18:12] <brousch> chrome for android?
[18:12] <brousch> i feel another tech-on
[18:13] <rick_h> brousch: yes, and the ui is slick, chrome sync
[18:13] <rick_h> I can see the tabs opened on my desktop/laptop and open any of them on my phone without this chrome2phone business
[18:13] <brousch> oh my. has it been 4 hours since my last tech-on?
[18:14] <brousch> i usually can't recover so quickly
[18:15] <rick_h> no extensions currently, but how badass would it be if the bookie extension could work across to the phone on there?!
[18:16] <rick_h> suddenly much more fired up for the chrome extension refactor/rewrite
[18:32] <snap-l> Oh, nice thought
[18:33] <rick_h> should be kind of easy since hte extensions are html, just to treat the extension a bit like a new tab
[18:35] <Wolfger> I fucking hate Microsoft. That is all.
[18:39] <snap-l> Wolfger: WHat now?
[18:42] <snap-l> rick_h: http://mattdw.github.com/2012/rapid-coffee-postmortem.html
[18:42] <snap-l> If you don't blow up by the end of it, you're not trying.
[18:43] <rick_h> snap-l: I posted it to G+ this morning
[18:43] <rick_h> actually liked it, good read
[18:43] <rick_h> and some good tips, I want to see her MakeFiles
[18:43] <snap-l> Ah, must've missed it
[18:43] <rick_h> or his
[18:43] <rick_h> snap-l: so you don't want to hear I bought the little book on coffeescript in my orielly checkup this morning?
[18:44] <rick_h> it's on my DX for some reading tonight
[18:44] <mydogsnameisrudy> http://www.nixternal.com/kubuntu-is-not-dead/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+nixternal+%28Richard+A.+Johnson+-+Blog+Archives%29
[18:44] <snap-l> Oh you didn't. :)
[18:45] <snap-l> mydogsnameisrudy: You missed nixternal in the room earlier. :)
[18:45] <mydogsnameisrudy> oh
[18:47] <brousch> i don't think nixternal posted that. not enough cursing
[18:47] <snap-l> heh
[18:59] <snap-l> http://bonsaiden.github.com/JavaScript-Garden/
[19:00] <jrwren> uggg... learning C... offsetof()
[19:02] <snap-l> Never used that. Sounds a bit dangerous
[19:03] <jrwren> its C
[19:07] <Wolfger> nixternal++
[19:09] <mydogsnameisrudy> why is unity such a big thing im confused
[19:10] <Wolfger> snap-l: My issue du jour (du heure?) with Microsoft is that when you are working in multiple Excel spreadsheets (as I often do), "undo" undoes your latest action *in ANY sheet*, not in the one you're currently focused on.
[19:10] <brousch> mydogsnameisrudy: because it's annoying
[19:10] <mydogsnameisrudy> ya  i get that part ;)
[19:11] <brousch> it is more annoying than what came before it
[19:11] <Blazeix> rick_h: so are you toeing on to the coffeescript wagon?
[19:11] <Blazeix> it's starting to look pretty tempting
[19:11] <rick_h> Blazeix: I'm doing research.
[19:11] <Wolfger> So I'm working along in multiple sheets, and suddenly realize I made a mistake an hour ago in another sheet I'm barely touching. I can't undo it without losing an hour's work in my primary sheet.
[19:11] <rick_h> Blazeix: I'm worried how it'll work fit around a framework
[19:11] <rick_h> Blazeix: but I think I want to find a bit of code to try it with
[19:12] <Blazeix> works pretty seamlessly with backbone :D
[19:12] <rick_h> heh, well umm yea, I'm guessing backbone, underscore, and coffeescript would work together pretty well :P
[19:12] <Wolfger> I managed a workaround that involved saving things under different names, reopening them all, and copy/pasting the good work, but it's stressful and damned silly to have to deal with
[19:12] <rick_h> (all written by same guy for the non-js people)
[19:13] <rick_h> Blazeix: I still feel dirty, but I'm using sass which si the same thing just in css so I'm a hypocrite I admitit
[19:13] <jrwren> snap-l: why should that read have made me blow up?
[19:14] <jrwren> snap-l: so coffee script isn't a silver bullet, so what?
[19:14] <snap-l> jrwren: was meant for rick_h
[19:14] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, I'm the hater that snap-l like to try to get fired up
[19:14] <snap-l> jrwren: I'll need t resort to other tactics to get you fired up
[19:14] <jrwren> we have a guy here who LOVES backbone, underscore and coffeescript
[19:14] <snap-l> jrwren: Like saying patently false things like "Sisters of Mercy are overrated"
[19:15] <jrwren> but they are overrated :p
[19:15] <jrwren> that said... i want a 10min version of temple of love in my ears,right now
[19:15] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, it's not hard to find someone that jumps overboard on it
[19:15] <jrwren> http://turntable.fm/industrial_laptop_suck_train
[19:15] <rick_h> but see every "movement" like rails, django, etc
[19:15] <snap-l> jrwren: I love the titmle
[19:15] <snap-l> title, even
[19:16] <snap-l> Wonder if I could use coffeescript to learn Javascript. :)
[19:16] <snap-l> so far the idioms I've seen used in the compiled versions make sense.
[19:16] <rick_h> I think it's the wrong way to go though
[19:17] <rick_h> I think it'd harm your ability to do non-coffee-js
[19:17] <jrwren> probably not.
[19:17] <jrwren> easier to just learn JS
[19:17] <jrwren> its a damned simple language
[19:17] <snap-l> rick_h: Well, I know enough JS
[19:17] <snap-l> oh here we go
[19:17] <rick_h> snap-l: but have you *done* enough JS?
[19:17] <snap-l> No, I haven't
[19:17] <jrwren> me either
[19:17] <snap-l> because frankly I think it's a shit language. :)
[19:17] <rick_h> there you go, adding a layer on it won't help
[19:18] <jrwren> ever do lisp
[19:18] <rick_h> time for the doing
[19:18] <jrwren> ?
[19:18] <rick_h> nope, not intentionally
[19:18] <snap-l> jrwren: A little bit
[19:18] <jrwren> JS is really just LISP with function(){} instead of just (((()))))
[19:18] <rick_h> lol
[19:18] <jrwren> i'm serious.
[19:18] <Wolfger> Uh....
[19:18] <snap-l> jrwren: Oh hell no
[19:19] <Wolfger> jrwren: I don't even do LISP, but I call BS
[19:19] <jrwren> it has more in common wiht lisp than it does Java or TCL or anything that folks claim on which it is based
[19:19] <jrwren> Wolfger: how can you call BS if you don't do lisp?
[19:19] <snap-l> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3492902/what-poop-frameworks-exist-for-lisp-and-scheme
[19:19] <Wolfger> jrwren: I've seen lisp
[19:19] <rick_h> Blazeix: http://code.google.com/chrome/mobile/docs/debugging.html :)
[19:19] <snap-l> Sorry, first search for prototype and lisp
[19:20] <jrwren> seeing and doing are 2 different things.
[19:20] <Blazeix> rick_h: sweet, i've been playing the the chrome browser, and saw that option fly by
[19:20] <jrwren> prototype inheritence is meaningless, you could impl the JS new keyword in lisp very easily and get prototype
[19:20] <jrwren> lol... POOP framekworks.
[19:21] <rick_h> Blazeix: yea, I'm really digging it.
[19:21] <rick_h> Blazeix: seeing my tabs listed under the machine for laptop/desktop just sent things over the edge, and very qiuck
[19:22] <rick_h> I'll be so happy when mobile browsers have remote hooks like this though
[19:22] <Blazeix> i don't think that's anything new though
[19:22] <rick_h> nothing worse than debugging complex JS on mobile :/
[19:22] <Blazeix> that's how remote webkit debugging works in general
[19:22] <rick_h> Blazeix: right, it's in webkit, but only the BB playbook was released
[19:22] <rick_h> so at least this means it can get into every ics device
[19:23] <Blazeix> i'm really happy with the chrome beta so far
[19:24] <rick_h> yea, definitely
[19:24] <Blazeix> think it's going to replace the default android browser for me
[19:24] <Blazeix> though i do miss my pie menu
[19:24] <rick_h> hah, definitely, but part of that was the horrible way the menu worked in the ics default browser
[19:25] <snap-l> jrwren: You're right. Hadn't thought of it that way before, but you're absolutely right
[19:25] <Blazeix> heh, yeah, the default menu was a bit funky
[19:26] <rick_h> Blazeix: yea, that stupid "drag down so you can see it, then quick click it before it hides..."
[19:40] <jrwren> snap-l: wait, about what am I right? LISP?  ty.
[19:45] <snap-l> Don't let it go to your head. ;)
[19:46] <snap-l> (actually jrwren is right about more things than I am. ;) )
[19:53] <jrwren> nah.
[20:03] <jrwren> further: json is just a weak form of s-expressions.  sexp ftw. json ftw.
[20:59] <rick_h> anyone know how to glob with a not clause
[20:59] <rick_h> trying to glob for .js but not min.js
[21:04] <Blazeix> *[^min].js
[21:04] <Blazeix> that would be my guess
[21:04] <rick_h> *.js~*min* is working
[21:04] <jrwren> shell glob or python glob lib?
[21:04] <rick_h> yea, the [^min] didn't work right
[21:04] <rick_h> shell
[21:04] <rick_h> of course this doesn't do me any good because the tool just wants .js files *isgh*
[21:05] <rick_h> that's a bad sigh
[21:05] <Blazeix> hm, [^min] is kinda working for me
[21:06] <Blazeix> it excludes all combinations of the letters m, i, and ,n
[21:06] <Blazeix> cool, I never knew about the tilde syntax
[21:07] <jrwren> glob not re
[21:07] <rick_h> heh, bah...bookie js docs suck :(
[21:07] <rick_h> Blazeix: yea, got it from http://www.zzapper.co.uk/zshtips.html
[21:08] <rick_h> damn you audible for sucking me in
[21:32] <brousch> Does this work for anyone? http://office.vdiw.net:8000
[21:33] <brousch> looking for comments on the design
[21:33] <mydogsnameisrudy> work as in come up
[21:33] <brousch> it's "mobile first", so it should look even better on a phone
[21:34] <brousch> or are they calling it responsive design now?
[21:34] <brousch> mydogsnameisrudy: yeah
[21:34] <mydogsnameisrudy> um first line " for monthly our meetings." is that to be hour?
[21:34] <mydogsnameisrudy> or its just not flowing right
[21:35] <mydogsnameisrudy> and im trying to learn python so ;)
[21:37] <brousch> mydogsnameisrudy: you're right, that was funky. fixed it
[21:37] <mydogsnameisrudy> ok looking again
[21:37] <mydogsnameisrudy> better ,,, can you teach me some ? ;)
[21:38] <brousch> i learned it all hanging out in here
[21:38] <brousch> so just stick around
[21:38] <mydogsnameisrudy> ah ok well ill keep trying then
[21:38] <mydogsnameisrudy> just to far for me to drive
[21:38] <brousch> ok, that's an exageration, but this is a good place to start
[21:38] <mydogsnameisrudy> im in the U.P.
[21:38] <brousch> right, i mean hang out in #ubuntu-us-mi
[21:39] <mydogsnameisrudy> im all over xchat
[21:39] <mydogsnameisrudy> learning
[21:40] <brousch> books, web sites, and most importantly you need a project to work on
[21:41] <mydogsnameisrudy> i dont program at all is python good to start with
[21:42] <brousch> yes
[21:42] <mydogsnameisrudy> ok i was looking at C++ but got lookin at python and im sticking with that
[21:42] <brousch> yikes
[21:42] <brousch> http://www.diveintopython.net/
[21:43] <brousch> C++ is hard
[21:43] <mydogsnameisrudy> im going thru learnpythonthehardway.org/book/
[21:43] <mydogsnameisrudy> ok
[21:43] <brousch> nice
[21:43] <brousch> well many of us in this channel are python programmers, so feel free to ask questions
[21:44] <mydogsnameisrudy> ok i will you said i could ;)
[21:44] <Blazeix> if you're new to programming, you might also try http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/python/english2e/
[21:44] <mydogsnameisrudy> look out
[21:44] <mydogsnameisrudy> ok ill look at that too
[21:45] <mydogsnameisrudy> maybe ill drive down to your meeting some time
[21:46] <brousch> looong drive
[21:46] <brousch> is detroit or ann arbor closer than grand rapids?
[21:46] <mydogsnameisrudy> ann arbor is the closest
[21:46] <mydogsnameisrudy> but it all the same 4 - 5 hours
[21:47] <brousch> http://groups.google.com/group/michipug
[21:47] <brousch> that's the ann arbor group
[21:47] <mydogsnameisrudy> im going to do a local linux day up here this summer
[21:47] <brousch> ouch. 5 hours
[21:47] <brousch> that's like me driving to columbus!
[21:47] <snap-l> brousch: It looks a little funky on my side
[21:47] <mydogsnameisrudy> ya its a long drive
[21:48] <snap-l> Might want to put "Sorry, there aren't..." centered under "upcoming meetings"
[21:48] <snap-l> otherwise the left justification looks odd on larger monitors
[21:49] <brousch> yeah, i haven't done much to prettify it for buig screens yet
[21:50] <brousch> i'll combine the greeting and upcoming meetings into the same row on big screens
[21:52] <mydogsnameisrudy> got a noob quiestion about python , how do you get a script to run with out terminal and python..  hmmm how do i say it ?
[21:53] <brousch> put this at the very top of the script
[21:54] <brousch> #!/usr/bin/env python
[21:54] <brousch> then make the file executable
[21:54] <brousch> chmod +x myfile.py
[21:55] <mydogsnameisrudy> will the file need to in the folder?
[21:55] <brousch> eh?
[21:56] <mydogsnameisrudy> the script i write can be in any folder?
[21:56] <brousch> yes, but usually you have a project folder for each project
[21:56] <mydogsnameisrudy> ok
[21:56] <mydogsnameisrudy> thx learning more
[21:59] <brousch> ok, time to get out of here
[22:00] <mydogsnameisrudy> l8r
[22:14] <Blazeix> https://twitter.com/#!/wallingf/status/166997231671578625
[23:55] <tjagoda> Did not get the canonical job
[23:56] <tjagoda> However, I got a very long and personalized sorry email which encouraged me to apply again the future, so as far as rejections go, I call that a pretty good one