[00:09] Riddell: I'm sure you are. I am and did almost nothing ;-) [00:43] nixternal: I liked the post. Thank yee [03:14] * ScottK waves to nixternal. [03:33] * Daskreech sines to nixternal [04:55] Hmmm [04:55] KDE Distro funding businesses exist [05:03] hola [05:04] man, i had to take a nap. my head has been killing me all day === fenris is now known as Guest55400 [05:23] Probably caused by incipient lack of commercial support from Canonical. [05:23] I know. [05:23] I'm all torn up in my head about it too === Guest55400 is now known as ejat [05:24] ScottK: Did you know that Mint KDE edition was sponsored? [05:24] No. [05:24] Yeah me either. [05:24] But unless someone is willing to sponsor a full time body, I'm not sure how much it helps. [05:25] That's the main thing we've lost. [05:25] apachelogger's blog did bring up that people could get support contracts from community members directly [05:26] but it would probably be better for there to be a company that can take those kind of contracts and then pay either full time or for projects [05:32] afiestas: Thank you for introducing me to Big Bang Theory. :) === zarvox_ is now known as zarvox === amichair is now known as amichair_ [07:13] uh oh [07:26] Daskreech: with a large/critical enough delpoyment I do not see why full time employment for work on Kubuntu is not a possibility === a1 is now known as al [09:44] lololol https://twitter.com/#!/FOSSNewsChannel/status/167025397475717120 [09:44] I have to say that's hit the nail on the head :) [09:45] crivvens [09:46] wait, what does that mean/ [09:48] "goodness me" [09:48] Ah! [12:17] hehe, retweeted ^^ [12:17] let's just hope twitter users are clever enough to understand it! === rbelem_ is now known as rbelem [12:52] Riddell: 8ball says the outlook is not so good :P [13:10] HIyas all [13:48] Daskreech: I wonder why he wants to change that for new users, sounds like a strange request from a user [14:08] \o [14:18] Mamarok: not convinced he's a user. More like a network admin rolling out Kubuntu [14:19] again I think it's amusing that I've seen more people coming in with queries about getting paid Kubuntu support than I have in maybe 3 years and suddenly Canonical no longer wants anyone to give them money for Kubuntu [14:19] would be a good spot for someone to take up [14:21] apachelogger: I know. but an alternative could be a company willing to take lots of smaller contracts and pay someone fulltime to make Kubuntu rock and do customization [14:22] apachelogger: one aspect could be having a "real" working KIOSK [14:22] Daskreech: sounds like a good idea for a Kubuntu company made of the devs? [14:22] Hi BluesKaj [14:22] where did apachelogger say something? [14:22] Mamarok: his blog [14:23] ah, you addressed him as if he were talking here :) [14:23] Which I think should be in /topic [14:23] Mamarok: Oh he did I commented on his blog and he responded that There is no reason why if there was a large enough deployment of Kubuntu that it would employ someone fulltime to work on Kubuntu [14:24] hey Daskreech [14:24] you mean like the educational board of Brazil? [14:24] anyone heard from netrunner? would be interesting to know their position now [14:24] so that was my thoughts on the matter [14:24] they have a deployment of 500.000 PCs with a distro based on Kubuntu [14:25] Mamarok: netrunner was brought up when I was musing on another channel. I had never heard of it before but they are very well setup for that space [14:25] Mamarok: They pay to sponsor Mint KDE as I understand it. [14:26] It would be an easy PR at least for them to say we will accept any support requests for Kubuntu :) [14:27] as they seem more tuned to KDE it's also likely they would be more inclined to highlight contracts they got based on Mint KDE and Kubuntu just to encourage people to break out of the "But NOBODY corporate uses KDE!" murmurs === KRF_ is now known as KRF [14:31] afaik netrunner hired aleix pol recently [14:37] agateau: blog post? [14:40] Daskreech: what is wrong with the kiosk :P [14:41] Daskreech: so put the blog post in the topic :P [14:41] it aint locked you know [14:41] Daskreech: who's this? "not convinced he's a user. More like a network admin rolling out Kubuntu" [14:41] apachelogger: Permission granted! :) [14:41] Riddell: kkklimonda [14:42] Wait one too many k [14:42] how rude [14:42] also tbruff13 is switching a school district from Ubuntu to Kubuntu when 12.04 comes out [14:42] Daskreech: where is he commenting? [14:42] apachelogger: I didn't want to put it up as a topic without notification [14:43] Riddell: kklimonda? Was doing some plasma scripting earlier but Mamarok was commenting on the query in #kubuntu about changing wallpapers for a new user [14:43] Quintasan: presence applet up for review https://launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/nightly/+files/ktp-presence-applet_0.3.0-0ubuntu1~ppa1.dsc === Daskreech changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu: Friendly Computing | http://www.kubuntu.org/news/precise-alpha | http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-kubuntu.html TODOs! | Kubuntu is alive and weller than before!! Read:http://wp.me/pQ8xr-gr [14:45] * apachelogger finds the ppa revu policy rather annoying [14:46] apachelogger: I do it to annoy you :{ [14:46] s/{/P [14:47] shadeslayer_: you could have done s/{/{p to add the evil moutstache [14:47] haha :{P [14:48] Daskreech: that doesn't look too god [14:48] *headdesk* [14:50] stop it! [14:50] this is silly! [14:50] muwhahaha [14:50] apachelogger: what ppa revu policy? [14:50] one does not use revu anymore [14:50] but upload to ppas [14:51] which is quite the regression on multiple ends [14:51] rekonq 0.8.75 tagged [14:51] Riddell: kklimonda is active again if you want to lurk in #kubuntu [14:51] someone want to package it? [14:53] shadeslayer_: you just voluntered, no? [14:53] nope [14:53] I suspect him to be a packager for some spin-off [14:53] I'm doing telepathy [14:53] and then I have to merge bluez [14:53] kklimonda that is [14:53] Mamarok: yeah [14:53] kklimonda: for 10.04? [14:53] kklimonda: why using such an old version then? [14:54] thanks shadeslayer_ [14:54] shadeslayer_: yes I think we want rekonq 0.9 in but haven't checked the expected release schedule yet [14:54] shadeslayer_: ping !ninjas for volunteers :) [14:55] Riddell: I think final release should be within 3 weeks or such [14:55] !ninjas [14:55] Ninja Time! apachelogger, bulldog98, debfx, JontheEchidna, Lex79, maco, neversfelde, nhandler, Quintasan, rgreening, Riddell, ScottK, stalcup, txwikinger, yofel [14:55] rekonq needs packaging :) [14:55] Daskreech: it's a project based on Kubuntu - we've choosen 10.04 a year ago as a stable base and are sticking with it for a time being. Then we just hacked it around as there was no time to do it properly, but now I have more time so I want to do this right. [14:55] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFLGRidfFo4 [14:56] kklimonda: fair enough. [14:56] kklimonda: an exciting project that's too secret to tell us? [14:56] I'm going to finish off telepathy today [14:57] shadeslayer_: thems dangerous words to say in software land! it's so common to get blocked or find something takes longer than expected [14:57] Daskreech: why you talk on two channels at the same time :P [14:57] stop confusing me [14:57] Riddell: not really, just too small and too mundane to discuss - basically the local equivalent of FSF is preparing a Kubuntu based distribution for schools as a part of a bigger project [14:57] * apachelogger needs moar coffee [14:58] kklimonda: nice [14:58] apachelogger: one I see as the method to get a particular problem solved and one as a larger reasoning and possible area of collaboration. [14:58] Riddell: distribution is just a small part of it, and our changes are really small (mostly adding some additional apps like Lazarus and Arduino) so I haven't really thought of showing it off :) [14:58] someone should brief apachelogger on what we are talking about [14:58] Each is going on the respective channel for that kind of discussion [14:58] also it was a terrible mess from the development side so far - using remastersys and shipping everything in /etc/skel.. ugh.. [14:59] oh my oh my [14:59] Oo [14:59] Riddell: I'll keep that in mind next time ;) [14:59] kklimonda: here is a good place to try asking if you get stuck on how to do things [14:59] apachelogger: ok, I want to change the wallpaper for new users in 10.04 - I can't use plasma scripts and looking for a better alternative than shipping change in /etc/skel - I can't figure out where is the default kubuntu wallpaper setting stored [14:59] (I can't use plasma init script as the wallpaper API has been introduced in 4.5) [14:59] kklimonda: why can't you use plasma scripts? [15:00] that should not be a problem [15:00] you should be able to write the appropriate config entries manually [15:00] via read/writeConfig() [15:00] and configGroup() or whatever it is called [15:01] apachelogger: great - how would that work? I can't use activity.writeConfig() as it's been introduced in 4.5 too [15:01] oh [15:01] haha [15:01] lol [15:02] what version of kde does 10.04 have? [15:02] heh good question [15:02] I am not sure basing on 10.04 is still appropriate [15:02] 4.4.5 [15:03] (that's the version of kdeplasma-addons) [15:03] 4.4-x was so buggy... compared to what we have now :) [15:04] yeah, I've had to patch rssnow so it would change its configuration on the fly.. I know it's an ancient version [15:04] we'll discuss changing to 12.04 after this release [15:05] kklimonda: any reason it wasn't discussed befre? Just time constraints? [15:05] shadeslayer_, speaking of rekonq , it needs a bookmarks toolbar that can be placed horizontally in the Titlebar , sidebars are oldschool IMO [15:05] BluesKaj: #rekonq or bugs.kde.org :P [15:06] we've actually started the project based on GNOME which was fine in 10.04, and the switch to KDE came later, too late for us to change to the newer release and test everything [15:06] kklimonda: use config settings [15:07] kklimonda: ah well since it's now that you have time maybe some elbow grease on a 12.04 mockup would be a nice investment. [15:07] Would be sad if the discussion started and when it was resolved that 12.04 is appropriate (which I honestly can't think why it wouldn't be) no one has time to do the work and you have to wait way into the cycle again [15:07] kklimonda: kde4-config --path config is where it looks [15:08] set up plasma as you want, copy relevant settings out of ~/.kde/share/config/plasma*rc into a file in /etc/kde4 [15:13] Daskreech: we really have like a week to prepare the iso - I've just left kde tweaking for last :) [15:13] cause it's the easiest? :) [15:14] yeah [15:14] ;) [15:15] shadeslayer_, FYI the bookmarks toolbar is finally fixed in rekonq [15:15] Riddell: I really wonder where plasma gets the default wallpape rfrom though [15:15] wheee [15:17] apachelogger: Kfairies [15:17] KPonies [15:17] oh, perhaps plasma theme [15:18] Or that [15:19] * Daskreech whispers "it's Bronies K ?" to shadeslayer_ === shadeslayer_ is now known as shadeslayer [15:19] argh [15:19] Riddell: you were right [15:19] /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lQt4::QtWebKit [15:20] stupid linker [15:20] so, I think the wallpaper is set in the theme very much [15:21] shadeslayer: why blame the linker? [15:21] that input is certainly not valid [15:21] :P [15:21] ofcourse, but the linker should be smarter :P [15:21] :{p [15:21] shadeslayer: eh? [15:21] not even I could make sense out of what that -lQt4::QtWebkit is supposed to do [15:22] apachelogger: So how will the Kubuntu team be moving forward after the recent news? Will this be a major change? [15:22] bkerensa: Topic [15:22] Daskreech: I'm asking on behalf of Ubuntu Dev News :P [15:23] whonwhat now? [15:24] Hmm? [15:24] bkerensa: business as usual, though we *might* take this development as an opportunity to discuss more in-depth how we want to handle various things in the future [15:25] but that is really random guessing here [15:25] I never heard of Ubuntu Dev news. Is that from the Fridge? [15:25] as there is for quite some time the talk of making some of our processes more efficient [15:26] we post a weekly update about ubuntu development to fridge and omg and it gets reposted in other places [15:26] we often place an interview in there or a spotlight on something which is interesting [15:26] Ah right ok :) [15:26] e.g. release packaging needs more automation as KDE is splitting their software into more tars and holds monthly release days with a great deal of software being released [15:26] Daskreech: We publish on Fridge and OMG yeah [15:26] that is about as much as can be said ... so really, business as usual for now (also see blog post from topic ;)) [15:27] ok cools :) [15:27] apachelogger: on your blog on question :"So no more LTS releases of Kubuntu?" you answered "Yes" [15:27] is this correct? [15:27] no, pitti already commented [15:27] shall we maybe move with a few folks into #kubuntu-interview and discuss things there to not disrupt the discussions in here? it'd be nice if a few people joined us, so we could try to explain as best we can to the casual reader what's going on and how they might help out in the future [15:27] what do you think? [15:27] xubuntu will be lts for examle [15:27] apparenlty LTS morphed into general Ubuntu label :P [15:28] and it is community driven [15:28] ok [15:28] so any flavour can apply for LTS and the TB decides whether that is granted [15:28] of course that makes me wonder who is going to implement the LTS then [15:28] dholbach: I think that I am at work and could not possible give an interview :P [15:29] apachelogger, not a video interview :) [15:29] but more like bkerensa and I ask a few questions and a few Kubuntu developers answer the questions [15:30] in the end we'd all stitch it together nicely and post it tomorrow [15:30] dholbach: we should schedule that :P [15:30] I think it'd be a good opportunity to say what kind of great stuff you are working on [15:30] lol [15:30] :D [15:30] and how new contributors can help out [15:30] schedule how? I don't think it'd take lots of time :) [15:31] I am not getting payed to give interviews :P [15:31] * dholbach shrugs [15:35] apachelogger: it was a cache issue [15:36] shadeslayer: give an interview to bkerensa and dholbach in #kubuntu-interview :P [15:36] ScottK, Riddell, shadeslayer, Quintasan: bkerensa and I wanted to do a quick interview about Kubuntu and what's currently happening for the weekly development update - would you be able to join #kubuntu-interview? [15:36] whut [15:36] I can help [15:36] kklimonda: you can see `dpkg -L kubuntu-default-settings` for how and what we tweak [15:36] I mentioned it earlier already: it might be a good opportunity to get some more folks involved and interested in what's cooking :) [15:37] * apachelogger still has pending invasive changes for that [15:37] anyone else we should drag in? :) [15:41] Riddell: ah, thanks - copying plasma rc files into /etc/kde4/ worked indeed [15:42] kklimonda: if you're doing it properly you should be careful not to include keys for settings you don't want in there, problems can be caused later [15:42] (I think it made the entire plasma scripting exercise pointless, but the result is what's important and I can try it again when we move to 12.04) [15:44] kklimonda: more knowledge helps [15:46] kklimonda: there are many advantages of scripting over the config file [15:46] latter is fine for simple things though :) [15:46] apachelogger: yes I know - that's why I've tried to figure out how to use it [15:46] Quintasan: go join #kubuntu-interview [16:02] Riddell: keys like for example desktop geometry? [16:03] (stuff that will vary from one machine to another) [16:03] kklimonda: right [16:04] Riddell: if I remove those keys KDE will just use defaults (or recalculate them), right? [16:04] makes sense - thanks [16:06] kklimonda: right [16:07] to test it make a new user rm their ~/.kde dir and kmenu->leave->switch users [16:07] or use xnest [16:21] Riddell: how much did you really relax today? Go out while there is light :) [16:24] Mamarok: what light? [16:25] lovely and sunny this morning in scotland, if icey [16:26] Sun? [16:26] what's sunny? [16:26] :-) [16:27] * Daskreech goes to see if he can get a linux Deployment Project \o/ [16:27] Daskreech: where do you work? :D [16:27] to work on professionally or out of the goodness of your heart? [16:28] phew [16:28] last package uploaded [16:28] now only the meta package is left [16:30] Riddell: Both [16:31] shadeslayer: A FOSS consultancy but they allow me to do work outside of the company that they don't want to touch [16:31] oh cool [16:31] Daskreech: desktop or server? [16:31] The ODPEM (Office of Disaster Preparedness and Emergency Management) is looking for a managment ... thing they don't really know what. [16:32] And I was looking at http://sahanafoundation.org/ from GCI [16:32] presumably something that can withstand earthquakes and hurricanes! [16:32] I indepenedently went and spoke with them about it and they jumped up and down for joy [16:33] openstreetmap is something they should know about but maybe that's for a different day [16:33] Riddell: likely server but I'm looking for where else I can push desktop. THey have a school outreach program so I can probably link with another program that's doing FOSS for School and use this to strenghen that [16:34] they'll need servers locally and remote to get maximum resiliance [16:34] Right which is what I'm looking at as well [16:35] this talk should interest them http://www.slideshare.net/sabman/haiti-quake-public-key [16:36] But I have a windows machine to exorcise in 20 minutes then a meeting with them so hopefully that goes well [16:37] 150+ slides? that sounds like a lot of talking :) [16:38] Oh I have a couple of friends who work on Sahana [16:38] awesome guys [16:44] hi every one. plasma-widget-smooth-tasks can not be installed. [16:44] same for other or only effecting me? [16:45] Kurdistan: could you pastebin the error? [16:46] shadeslayer, will do. [16:48] shadeslayer, http://paste.ubuntu.com/834122/ [16:48] *sigh*, probably needs a rebuild against 4.8 [16:48] yep [16:49] :S [16:49] maybe because I use kde 4.8.0 and it is not updated? [16:49] I'll do that [16:49] yofel: plz2fix [16:49] Kurdistan: yes [16:49] our deps are too tight there so the abi manager is useless -.- [16:49] yofel, :) okey then I am right track [16:51] Kurdistan: uploaded to backports, will take a while to build [16:51] yofel, thx. np. [16:55] http://i.imgur.com/2u5qd.jpg yofel do you think this bug can be driver (graphical) or kdm? [16:55] if I should write to upstream channel or not. [16:55] what would kdm have to do with it? [16:56] oh fooey - reply on bug 928009 [16:56] Launchpad bug 928009 in kdebase-runtime (Ubuntu) "Kubuntu missing someKDE API 4.6 include files" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/928009 [16:56] should I add kde-runtime-dev :/? [16:56] apachelogger, this bug only accures if a user is login out/in serveral times. and login manager in kubuntu is kdm. is it not? [16:57] could still be both [16:57] i.e. it could be kdm not correctly resetting X [16:57] or driver problem [16:57] latter is more likely though [16:58] if it were kdm the issue would appear at the second login already [16:58] apachelogger, I think also it is driver, becuase if I restart x server when I log out the problem is temporaly solved when I log back [16:58] sorry my english spelling is not the best :) [16:59] yofel: it will probably ftbfs against kde 4.8: bug #908459 [16:59] Launchpad bug 908459 in plasma-widget-smooth-tasks (Ubuntu Precise) "FTBFS: error: 'TaskPtr' in namespace 'TaskManager' does not name a type" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/908459 [16:59] ah, so that's why it isn't in precise, thanks [16:59] Kurdistan: ^ [17:00] alternative would be the icon only taks manager that's now in kde [17:00] *task [17:00] yofel, I am using 11.10. [17:00] doesn't matter, this is about KDE 4.8 [17:00] I am okey with the task-manager kubuntu comes with, but wanted to test that. [17:01] well, from my past experience the icon only task manager comes close [17:01] (to stasks) [17:01] hmm [17:01] yofel: for meta packages, does one just tar up the debian folder and upload? [17:01] * yofel wonders if he filed a bug about the transparency effect [17:01] Kurdistan: well, that is what I am saying :) [17:01] shadeslayer: sure, native package [17:01] kdm only *resets* X [17:02] and clearly things get messed up by that [17:02] shadeslayer: tar up == debuild -S [17:02] consequentially a *restart* of X would fix it [17:02] apachelogger, so you also think it is graphical driver related? [17:02] oh cool [17:02] Kurdistan: I believe graphics driver is more likely [17:02] but from the things we know it is impossible to tell for sure [17:02] apachelogger, thx, then I gave same information like you did to one user in swedish loco. [17:03] we 2 have the same problem [17:03] it would be interesting to know what driver/graphics chip they use [17:03] apachelogger, np, I am writing also in nvidia channel, I hope they will answer. they are not active like here. :) [17:04] I really like that new kde icon tasks manager, might as well just switch to unity :P [17:06] yofel: about the bug ... sure install the headers [17:06] there is also one bug with kde-config-touchpad that effects some user in swedish loco and also myself. I solved it by removing the package, but thats not really solving the problem :). [17:06] * yofel gets to work [17:06] what's the bug? [17:07] when login it say can not find the touchpad [17:07] even if a user have or not [17:08] screenshot please [17:09] apachelogger, http://www.ubuntu-se.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=206&t=55832&view=previous [17:09] you can use google translate from swedish to english === koolhead17 is now known as koolhead17|zzZZ [17:11] is it a notification? [17:11] apachelogger, exactly [17:12] and kde-config-touchpad is causing it? :O [17:12] apachelogger, I think so, because after removing the problem was solved for me and the user that started the topic in our loco. [17:14] oh [17:14] you are autostarting the tray application apparently [17:17] apachelogger, do not know. [17:17] well, I do, I looked at the code :P [17:17] or I do not understand you to be honest [17:17] only the tray application uses notifications [17:17] *sigh* https://launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/nightly/+builds?build_state=pending [17:17] and the tray applicatoin only autostarts if you tell it to do so [17:17] so that is not actually a bug :P [17:17] apachelogger, okey, so the bug is what? [17:18] well, I guess the bug is that it tells you there is no touchpad even if you have one? [17:18] apachelogger, exactly. so how can I and other solve it without removing the package [17:18] not everyone will think about it [17:19] shadeslayer: you know, you can totally testbuild stuff locally :P [17:19] Kurdistan: the way you turned it on [17:19] apachelogger, :) I did not turn it on. [17:19] yes you did, the code tells me so [17:19] rm ~/.kde/share/config/synaptiksrc [17:19] apachelogger: I know, I need to test all of it together now [17:19] then see if the thing still comes up [17:20] apachelogger, hehe, okey. thx. [17:20] shadeslayer: you can totally do that locally :P [17:22] apachelogger, I will tell the user that he can also do the way you write by command line. [17:22] then no need to remove the package. [17:22] correct? [17:25] yes [17:25] apachelogger, thx. === rdieter_laptop is now known as rdieter [17:32] yofel: you'll be free after the 16th? [17:33] if I get oxygen done by then, yeah, I'll be on vacation in the week of 20-24th [17:34] I'll see how much time I'll have there [17:34] ah [17:34] yofel: okay, I just wanted to draw up a spec of the automation script that I'm planning to write [17:34] count me in === greyback|lunch is now known as greyback [17:35] awesome, I have exams in the last week of feb myself, so won't be available themn [17:35] *then [17:35] oh come on... considering they're shipping headers the nepomuk folks sure haven't learned a thing about library management... [17:36] yofel, haha +1 [17:36] Actually, I think they've been forced to do that [17:36] since kdelibs only has those headers in KDE Frameworks [17:36] well, "class NEPOMUK_DATA_MANAGEMENT_EXPORT SimpleResource" and where do I find the symbols? [17:36] /usr/lib/libnepomukdatamanagement.so [17:36] shadeslayer, same time i have exame. I have two. :) [17:36] *headdesk* [17:37] yofel: vHanda on #nepomuk-kde could probably help with issues [17:37] Kurdistan: I have 4 :P [17:38] well, this is really more about: ship headers or don't ship them [17:38] and this is making me feel rather bad... [17:38] shadeslayer, ok, you win. :P [17:38] although the abi manager could be a workaround - but do symbol files work without an SONAME? [17:39] I used to have 6, but then I came into the 8th semester [17:40] ScottK: your opinion about this? [17:41] * yofel is for leaving it and trolling nepomuk folks -.- [17:41] hehe [17:41] Okay, I'm going to take a break for a hour or so [17:41] cya [17:43] shadeslayer, I wish us both luck then :). [17:44] yofel: if it's in /usr/lib it should be versioned [17:44] well, yeah, it *should* - and isn't [17:44] guess I can file a bug [17:45] yes, especially if they ship headers [17:54] other then does thing I have mentiod kde 4.8.0 have been rock solid so far [17:55] which kde 4.8.* will be default for kubuntu 12.04 and will kubuntu 12.04 user during this 3 years only use kde 4.8.0 or will it upgrade to newer kde release? [17:55] if I am off-topic, then I will write in the right channel. [17:56] usually we ship with the .2 I think [17:56] check the release schedules [18:03] probably .2, we'll update up to 4.8.4, 4.9 will be in backports until 12.10 is out - same as before [18:04] yofel, ubuntu have backport enabled by default [18:05] will kubuntu also have that? [18:05] mean for 12.04 [18:05] I have no idea how they do the pinning, jontheechidna might know more [18:07] yofel, oki. [18:10] hi [18:11]