duanedesign Beginners Team Meeeting  o/00:04
meetingologyMeeting started Wed Feb  8 00:05:48 2012 UTC.  The chair is duanedesign. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.00:05
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JoseeAntonioRso, we're only 4 here00:06
duanedesign#meetingtopic Beginners Team February Meeting00:07
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Beginners Team February Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
JoseeAntonioRso, what are we going to discuss today?00:08
duanedesignI wanted to talk about the mentor/guides/student00:08
duanedesignand how we guide new people who come into the channel or email us after they  find our wiki00:09
JoseeAntonioRmaybe having a welcome page for beginners00:09
ashickur-noorwiki page is enough I think00:10
ashickur-noorfor welcome00:10
JoseeAntonioRa wiki page where we say hello, and specify what can people do for support, or for community collaboration00:10
duanedesign#topic Guiding Ubuntu Users New to the Community00:10
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Beginners Team February Meeting Meeting | Current topic: Guiding Ubuntu Users New to the Community
duanedesignWe have, and many team, tried the 1 mentor 1 apprentice thing00:11
duanedesignwherre someone signs a waiting list and waits to be assigned or picked up by a mentor00:11
duanedesignit is very hard to keep up with00:12
JoseeAntonioRthat's a good idea, but, as you said, we would need a lot of people00:12
duanedesignThe Bug Squad has been using their Mailing List more extensively00:12
ashickur-noorBut this is our problem00:12
duanedesignThat way users do not have to wait00:12
JoseeAntonioRwaiting list is a pretty good idea, but it would need to be managed in a different way00:13
JoseeAntonioRso we don't have that big problem00:13
duanedesignThe problem has been not enough mentors00:14
ashickur-noor+1 JoseeAntonioR00:14
JoseeAntonioRpeople are 50/50 satisfied with LP answers, but they complain about not getting an instant answer00:15
JoseeAntonioRand sometimes, it's something they could have found out just by searching00:15
duanedesignThe Bug Squad during the Natty cycle started https://launchpad.net/~bugsquad-mentorship-group-alpha00:15
ashickur-nooryes this is why we are here00:16
ashickur-nooryo give support to the new00:16
duanedesignthe idea behind what the Bug Squad did was to have a handful of mentors help a larger group of apprentices00:17
JoseeAntonioRsomething like 1 mentor with 3 or 5 apprentices?00:17
ashickur-noorSo wee need mentor00:17
duanedesignI think this is a good idea. Instead of having one mentor one apprentice00:18
duanedesignJoseeAntonioR: right00:18
JoseeAntonioRif we start something like that, we need something like a schedule00:18
duanedesignI think we could use the team mailing list and everyone pitches in to help answer quesations for those people looking to get started in the community00:19
ashickur-noorWhen which mentor will be present?00:19
JoseeAntonioRI have noticed something00:20
duanedesigni think we could be informal. Everyone help out when they can.00:20
duanedesignHopefully we would all try and check the list regularly00:20
ashickur-noorIt is our regular task00:20
JoseeAntonioRwhen people is redirected to the IRC, they normally enter the #ubuntu channel, and they ask very basic questions00:20
ashickur-noorBut there is hardly mail in the list00:20
JoseeAntonioRit would be good if someone who is usually in the channel redirects that person to #ubuntu-beginners00:21
duanedesignanother issue with the current list is people feel like they can not get started working in the community until they get a mentor00:21
ashickur-noorone thing we can do00:22
Unit193JoseeAntonioR: They can get help both places, and there are more to help in #u00:22
JoseeAntonioRduanedesign that's what I felt last year, as I didn't know where to start00:22
ashickur-noorwe can divert people from #ubuntu to here00:22
Unit193duanedesign: Zone defence style00:22
JoseeAntonioRexactly, ashickur-noor00:23
Unit193I do not like the idea of redirecting people from another channel00:24
ashickur-noorI proposed it #u is too busy00:24
duanedesignThe type of help we would be giving on the mamiling list would be people interested in getting involved in the community.00:24
ashickur-nooreven I don't like to there to take help00:25
ashickur-noorunless there is some one here00:25
duanedesignashickur-noor: when you ask a question it is off the screen in a couple seconds00:25
Unit193As far as #u goes, they have a lot more people supporting, how many times have you seen a question go unanswered?00:25
ashickur-noorOne thing we can do00:25
JoseeAntonioRduanedesign maybe giving them an introduction to LP00:25
ashickur-noorfor me some times00:26
JoseeAntonioRUnit193 is right. 80% of the time the question is answered.00:26
duanedesignJoseeAntonioR: that would be good tool for people to learn early on00:26
duanedesignJoseeAntonioR: under 'Guides' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors00:26
ashickur-noorwe can do one more thing00:26
duanedesignJoseeAntonioR: we have a few things for people new to the community to do00:26
ashickur-noorpromote this team00:26
Unit193And how many times have you seen #u-b go unanswered?00:26
JoseeAntonioRUnit193 I have never seen.00:27
Unit193I have many times00:27
ashickur-noorMy experience is same as Unit19300:27
ashickur-noorin @ubt00:28
Unit193And Team channel isn't exactly for support00:28
ashickur-noorit for discussion00:28
JoseeAntonioRduanedesign we might put some guides in the wiki, like introduction to lp, how to report bugs, how to answer questions, some tips, irc helping, etc00:29
duanedesignJoseeAntonioR: we had a 'sign post' page at one time00:29
duanedesignbecause those pages exist elsewhere on the wiki we just need to find them and link to them00:29
duanedesignI would like each Focus Group Page to have a few steps to get people started00:30
JoseeAntonioRduanedesign and maybe link the UBT wiki page in the membership page, so people can know where to find some guiding00:30
duanedesignif you look at the User Support page it has where users can give support and some resources to help them give support https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Support00:32
duanedesignThe bugs page a better 'roadmap' under Current Tasks https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Bugs00:33
Unit193duanedesign: So you want to move this to group but on the mailing list?00:33
duanedesignthat way people can help themselves as much as possible :)00:33
duanedesignUnit193: move what?00:34
Unit193Currently I see the focus mainly in IRC00:34
duanedesignahh, right00:34
duanedesignWhen people join the Beginners Team and want to get started helping other users I just want to make sure we are doing a good job of getting them started00:36
JoseeAntonioRso, new users would have to introduce theirselves in the mailing list?00:37
duanedesignMy thought was that the guide mentor list is not working very well.00:37
ashickur-noorGood idea00:37
Unit193Alright, I'm  not saying I'd be agenst doing the mailing list style, just I'm not a mailing list sender00:37
duanedesignI think IRC is optimal if people are present to help00:38
duanedesignbut we always had mentors as the safety net.00:38
Unit193Also, I noticed #ub gets some people after being banned (for a reason!) from #u00:38
ashickur-noorlist is also good00:38
duanedesignif you couldnt reach someone to answer your question you had a mentor who  volunteeres to help you. I think the mailing List could be that 'safety net'/00:39
ashickur-noor+1 duanedesign00:39
JoseeAntonioRI think that's great00:39
Unit193I would agree that is a good idea00:40
duanedesignok, i will write an email to send to the mailing list to get feedback from the rest of the team00:41
duanedesignanyone elsse have anything?>00:41
JoseeAntonioRerm, I think I have something00:42
duanedesign#action duanedesign is going to email the ML to get further team feedback on tweaking the mentor program.00:43
meetingologyACTION: duanedesign is going to email the ML to get further team feedback on tweaking the mentor program.00:43
duanedesignJoseeAntonioR: what was on your mind?00:43
JoseeAntonioRI'm trying to explain it :S00:44
JoseeAntonioRhow do we get beginners to contact us? because afaik we aren't on the docs00:44
duanedesignIs us, the team00:45
duanedesignor us, individual members?00:45
JoseeAntonioRthe team00:45
ashickur-nooryes it is a question00:45
JoseeAntonioRI mean, I don't see many beginners entering the IRC channel, I only see 3 or 4 a week00:46
duanedesigni think most people stumble on the wiki00:46
duanedesignor the IRC channel00:46
ashickur-noorevery one does not know that there is ubt00:46
JoseeAntonioRashickur-noor, that's my point00:46
ashickur-noorWhat I say before00:47
ashickur-noorWe have to promote our team00:47
ashickur-noorby social media00:48
duanedesignlast year we were working on reaching out to other teams00:48
ashickur-noorby other list00:48
ashickur-noorother team00:48
ashickur-noorfrom forums00:49
Unit193Yes, but advertising in #u is agenst policy, and we need to get good, dedicated mentors first00:49
ashickur-noorif we don't promote00:49
ashickur-noorthen new will know about us00:50
ashickur-noorabout Ubuntu00:50
JoseeAntonioROk. So first of all, let's tweak the mentorship system, so we can promote afterwards00:50
ashickur-noorSounds like good00:50
duanedesign#action brainstorm on ways to reach new users looking to get involved in the coomunity00:52
meetingologyACTION: brainstorm on ways to reach new users looking to get involved in the coomunity00:52
duanedesignhows that :)00:52
duanedesignthanks JoseeAntonioR00:53
duanedesignthanks Unit19300:53
Unit193As hobgoblin keeps saying, we need to get shorter /topics as people don't read them, and that may get a few more doing it00:53
Unit193duanedesign: I didn't do much00:53
duanedesignthanks ashickur-noor00:53
JoseeAntonioRyes, before we end, wha Unit193 said00:54
duanedesignUnit193: our topics in the IRC chabbels?00:54
ashickur-noorit's my pleasure00:54
Unit193duanedesign: Yes sir00:54
duanedesignUnit193: good idea00:54
Unit193I can talk after meeting, nothing really needed in here00:54
duanedesignok :)00:55
duanedesignif nothing else?00:55
ashickur-noorI will update the team report00:55
duanedesignahh cool00:55
ashickur-noorsome one update the meeting log and next meeting00:55
JoseeAntonioRI'll update the wiki00:56
duanedesignshort list of after meeting items on the /meeting wiki page00:56
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Wed Feb  8 00:56:34 2012 UTC.00:56
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-00.05.moin.txt00:56
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-00.05.html00:56
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=== jodh is now known as jhunt_
* slangasek waves16:00
* stgraber waves16:01
* barry can't wait to see jhunt_ 's "done" character today16:01
bdmurrayI thought jhunt_ was gone16:01
dokogood morning, early here ...16:02
meetingologyMeeting started Wed Feb  8 16:02:31 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.16:02
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired16:02
slangasekdoko: no, it's the usual time ;16:02
slangasek[TOPIC] Lightning round16:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
slangasek$ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jhunt_ ev bdmurray slangasek)16:03
slangasekjhunt_ ev doko bdmurray slangasek stgraber barry16:03
slangasekno cjwatson today, per his mail16:03
jhunt_Working on bug 922754 - jason and myself both independently found the16:03
jhunt_same bug in openssh! :-) Reworking code to take account of such 'unusually16:03
jhunt_behaved apps'. Started to look at stgrabers upstart-containers MP.16:03
ubottuLaunchpad bug 922754 in upstart "booting without --no-log causes init and plymouth-upstart-bridge to spin at 100%" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92275416:03
* jhunt_ now using erc :)16:04
ev- Summary email to Rick on the Open Invention Network meeting I attended at16:04
ev  his request last week.16:04
ev- Verifying that Wubi 11.10 is not affected by the recent download fallback16:04
ev  bug, as expected.16:04
ev- Merging Loic's Automake fixes for libtimezonemap.16:04
ev- Wired the DBus preferences to the configuration file and vice versa in the16:04
ev  preferences dialog backend.16:04
ev- Added PolicyKit wrapping to the preferences dialog backend methods.16:04
barryjhunt_: rock!16:04
ev- Wired the checkboxes to DBus calls in the preferences page.16:04
ev- Set up DBus service activation for the preferences page backend.16:04
ev- Shut down the preferences page backend 60 seconds after the last call.16:04
ev- Fixed some bugs in the preferences page backend.16:04
ev- Uploaded a new whoopsie (0.1.5) with the completed preferences page.16:04
ev- Initial remodeling of the apport crash dialog in support of the new crash16:04
ev  database.16:04
ev- Show the icons of the application with a bottom right error icon overlay,16:04
ev  rather than just a generic error icon in the apport crash dialog.16:04
ev- Sorted travel for Strata.16:04
ev- Move obtaining the report information into a thread that's either called16:05
ev  when the user presses the Show Details button or when they choose to report16:05
ev  the bug, as discussed previously with Matthew and Martin.16:05
ev- Handle the different types of bug reports having slightly different UI in16:05
ev  the apport crash dialog.16:05
ev- Wire up the crash counter field to the ignore future problems checkbox.16:05
ev- Fixed a few bugs in the new apport UI.16:05
ev- Built and uploaded a new Wubi for
ev- Found out from Matthew that GNOME has gone ahead and created their own page16:05
ev  called Privacy in the Control Center. I'll have to rework the code as a16:05
ev  patch that adds a Diagnostics tab. :(16:05
ev- Blacklist the report if the user checked the ignore future problems16:05
ev  checkbox.16:05
ev- Better handling of calling into collect_info, as was the case previously,16:05
ev  complete with error handling UI in threads.16:05
ev- Handle the administrator disabling crash reporting.16:05
ev- Actually notify the crash reporting daemon that there's a new crash to16:05
ev  upload.16:05
ev- Started work on the KDE side of the apport changes.16:05
doko- openjdk-6 and icedtea-web builds16:05
doko- fosdem (best news is that RedHat announced their openjdk ARM build does pass the TCK)16:05
doko- now at Linaro Connect16:05
doko- will upload eglibc-2.15 today16:05
doko ... if nobody intervenes16:06
ev(was actually Canonical, not GNOME)16:06
bdmurraybug triage of ubiquity bug reports16:06
bdmurrayupdated ubiquity apport source package hook to include installer command line16:06
bdmurrayiso-testing bug triage16:06
bdmurrayreview of merge proposals from Vadim Rutkovsky16:06
bdmurraytesting ubiquity bug 924836 regarding ifupdown and plymouth16:06
bdmurraytesting ubiquity bug 902479 regarding details (dupe searching)16:06
bdmurraytesting ubiquity bug 645449 and finding duplicates of it16:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 924836 in resolvconf (Ubuntu Precise) "network-manager does not tell plymouth it has started" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92483616:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 830946 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "duplicate for #902479 Nothing displayed on embedded terminal." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83094616:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 645449 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Ubiquity hangs at Keyboard layout if you use keyboard to navigate / select" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/64544916:06
bdmurraysearched for DBus.Error.NoReply bug reports16:06
bdmurrayadded screenlog.0 log file to precise update-manager apport hook16:06
bdmurraydebugging of collect bug data for arsenal reports16:06
bdmurraytested apt-clone and dist-upgrade of lucid to precise (bug 927993)16:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 927993 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "distribution upgrade from lucid to precise failed with : package dpkg is already installed and configured" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92799316:06
bdmurrayapport branch not to remove dependencies.txt from duplicates16:06
bdmurrayupdated meta-release files on changelogs.ubuntu.com to show 12.04 LTS16:06
slangasek * alpha-2 out the door16:08
slangasek * interviewing16:08
slangasek * nothing much else to report16:08
slangasek * I'll be off Monday16:08
stgraber- Testing tracker16:08
stgraber - Help with Alpha 2 preparation16:08
stgraber - Wrote an initial to generate a list of releasable images from the tracker based on testing coverage16:08
stgraber- Networking16:08
stgraber - Some more work on resolvconf, reverting the init script change that was done last week and usnig a relative symlink for /etc/resolv.conf instead16:08
stgraber - Merged some fixes into netcfg, fixed it to deal properly with reoslvconf and fixed another small DHCPv6 issue.16:08
stgraber - Got daily d-i IPv6 testing running, just need to have the results pushed somewhere now16:08
stgraber - Follow-up on SRUs for ifupdown, ifenslave-2.6, vlan, bridge-utils. TREllis should have test results soon that will let us move all that to -updates (if succesful)16:09
stgraber- LTSP16:09
stgraber - Started preparing the LTSP upload for Precise, there are a lot of upstream changes, so currently testing in a PPA with a few LTSP developers (yeah, you, alkisg ;))16:09
stgraber - Reworked LTSP-Live, just need to do some more testing on it and that'll be on less WI :)16:09
stgraber- Containers16:09
stgraber - Updated upstart branch a bit, still pending review, hopefully this week.16:09
stgraber - Got LXC to build armel and armhf containers on x86! http://www.stgraber.org/2012/02/03/ever-wanted-an-armel-or-armhf-container-on-an-x86-machine-its-now-possible-with-lxc-in-ubuntu-precise/16:09
stgraber - Started looking at ways to allow for clean upgrades and dist-upgrades of running containers16:09
stgraber- TPM16:09
stgraber - tpm-tools is back in Ubuntu!16:09
stgraber - Now to do a few tests and documment that stuff (post-FF probably)16:09
stgraber- TODO16:09
stgraber - Trying to get as much as possible done before Feature Freeze, thankfully quite a few work items can be done after it.16:09
stgraber*wrote an initial script16:09
slangasekarmel containers on x86 - freaky stuff :16:10
slangasekstgraber: do you have tpm-tools working on your system now?16:10
stgraberslangasek: I have it installed, not quite working yet but I need to try with a clean TPM and David's instructions16:11
* slangasek nods16:11
barryprepared and conducted udd class for udw; updated udd online docs.  long discussions on various python security issues.  python3-pyqt4-dbus review. DM application.  helped out oem and other internal devs on some packaging issues.  updated patch for wadllib+python3 submitted to debian.  wrote up debian python packaging style guide proposal: <http://tinyurl.com/7g2ybep>. todo: gearing up for stable+1 maintenance work this month;16:12
barrycoordinate w/pitti and SpamapS. off on friday. ⊗16:12
slangasekbarry: has your DM application been approved?  (For some reason that's set up to where everybody can see the application, and then no one knows when it's accepted...)16:13
barryslangasek: i honestly don't know.  the docs say "wait a while" so i'm waiting for confirmation16:14
slangasekk :)16:14
slangasek[TOPIC] FF16:15
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: FF
* ev runs away screaming16:15
slangasekI'm told Feature Freeze is happening next Thursday :)16:16
slangasekso don't get caught holding a feature on Thursday, or it'll freeze to your skin and have to be surgically removed16:16
evdoes our health insurance policy cover that?16:16
barryev: not in the usa16:16
slangasekif there are any features you're concerned about not having done before FF, talk to me (and the release team) *now*, don't wait 'til next Thursday16:17
dokoI'm still toying with making ruby1.9 the default, have to talk with lucas16:18
barrydoko: there was some discussion yesterday in #u-devel about numpy 1.6.  any thoughts on that?16:19
barry(jtaylor is interested in that)16:19
doko<doko> jtaylor, I don't see a reason not to do that. so if you have packages for numpy, scipy, and maybe others, let me know16:19
slangasekdoko: is that something you'll coordinate with the server team as well?  Ruby is in main to support their apps specifically16:20
barrydoko: fantastic, thanks16:20
dokoslangasek, ok will pester Daviey16:20
slangasek[TOPIC] Bugs16:21
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
slangasekbdmurray: have we found all the bugs now, or are there still new ones?16:22
bdmurrayslangasek: I'm pretty sure there are still some new ones16:22
bdmurrayOh, actually I found a funny one yesterday 92844716:23
bdmurraybug 92844716:23
ubottuLaunchpad bug 928447 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "possible to use a number for your computer's name" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92844716:23
bdmurrayseriously though - ev any progress with a wubi 247 for oneiric?16:24
bdmurrayalso bug 920479 has been around for some time16:25
ubottuLaunchpad bug 920479 in pitivi (Ubuntu) "pitivi don't start" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92047916:25
evbdmurray: I tried to reproduce this issue with the wubi installer from ubuntu.com attempting to use the development release payload, but it did not16:25
bdmurrayer 90247916:25
stgraberbdmurray: yeah, I guess that's because of an older RFC stating an hostname can't start by a digit and some software still expect that to be true16:26
bdmurrayev: so what needs to happen next16:26
evwell, I fixed bug 924752 for precise16:27
ubottuLaunchpad bug 924752 in Wubi "wubi r255 - Ubuntu Desktop failed to install from disk image - wrong download url" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92475216:27
evI'm not convinced the "if I copy this off the cd and try to run it from the desktop" is really a bug16:27
bdmurrayright but what I did is download from ubuntu.com and it tried to install the development.  I'll test it again though just to be really sure.16:28
slangasekstgraber: even in the current RFCs, hostnames aren't allowed to consist entirely of numbers16:28
evbdmurray: please do16:28
evif you can reliably reproduce it, I'd like to see some logs from that attempt16:28
bdmurrayregarding numbers as hostnames was that it won't let you until you type in a password16:28
bdmurrayev: and is there a debug switch for wubi?16:29
evmake sure you're getting it from the page off of ubuntu.com16:29
evbdmurray: nope, it dumps its brain to %TEMP%16:29
evwith debug logging the default16:29
bdmurraybug 90247916:30
ubottuLaunchpad bug 830946 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "duplicate for #902479 Nothing displayed on embedded terminal." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83094616:30
bdmurrayits not a huge deal but rather ugly16:31
evask me about that one when we're deep in bug fixing mode :)16:31
slangasekev: should we assign it to you in the meantime? :)16:32
stgraberslangasek: do you know which RFC(s)? 952 is not particularly clear on the "just a number" bit as the "can't start by a digit" was taking care of that case, then 1123 says that the "can't start by a digit" bit is dropped16:32
evslangasek: you can assign to me as many bugs as you'd like, now the milestone field on the other hand... ;)16:33
evgo ahead, but I promise not to touch it until we're past UI freeze16:33
slangasekstgraber: not offhand; but I'm sure that a hostname consisting entirely of numbers is still prohibited, and is routinely interpreted as a decimal encoding of an IP16:33
slangasekbdmurray: any other bugs?16:34
bdmurrayyes bug 876298 seems to have come up again as there are some issues installing flashplugin16:34
ubottuLaunchpad bug 876298 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "[MASTER] We need to better handle external payloads (Flash, msttcorefonts) not being available." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87629816:34
* doko is changing rooms, plenaries start at 8:30 at Linaro :-/16:35
* slangasek waves to doko16:35
bdmurraysome installs are failing to resolve archive.canonical.com to get flash and then the install crashes16:35
bdmurraystgraber and I talked about the name resolution failure which is a separate issue16:35
bdmurrayit just seems to me that fixing 876298 would help more people install16:36
slangasekbarry: that one's assigned to you; have you had a chance to look into it at all?16:37
barryslangasek: i haven't but i will16:37
stgraberslangasek: right, the closest thing I found is in the DNS RFC (1912) which clearly states that a label can't be a number, though that's specifically for DNS records. Anyway, enough digging in RFCs for the day ;)16:37
slangasekbarry: ok, thanks16:38
slangasekI also want to remind folks about http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html16:38
bdmurrayadditionally would fixing hat help with bug 922949?16:38
ubottuLaunchpad bug 922949 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "installer crashed due to a corrupted package" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92294916:38
slangasekthis has the list of bugs that we really really need to fix for release... and the numbers aren't going down very quickly :(16:39
slangaseksome of them are targeted to beta-1 and are on track... but we probably shouldn't leave the rest to the end of the cycle, lest they fail to make the cut16:40
slangasek[TOPIC] AOB16:41
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
slangasekanything else?16:41
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Wed Feb  8 16:42:33 2012 UTC.16:42
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-16.02.moin.txt16:42
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-16.02.html16:42
slangasekthanks, guys!16:42
=== Ursinha-lunch is now known as Ursinha
balloonshello everytime.. time for the weeekly qa meeting17:01
meetingologyMeeting started Wed Feb  8 17:02:01 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.17:02
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired17:02
balloonsWe have a short agenda for today.. Can I get a roll call of who all is here quickly?17:02
balloonsPrevious Actions17:03
balloonsACTION: :alourie to feature AutomatedTesting wiki page prominently in wiki, based upon list discussion (balloons, 17:19:45)17:03
balloonsUbuntu Flavor Updates17:03
balloonsOther topics17:03
balloonshi astraljava17:03
astraljavaHey there.17:03
balloonsjust you, me and the idlers17:03
astraljavaLooks that way. :)17:03
balloons[TOPIC] Previous Actions17:04
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Previous Actions
balloonshello phillw17:05
balloonsok,the only outstanding action is one carried over for alourie..17:05
phillwhi balloons sorry I'm late - just put new O/S on.17:05
balloonsno worries phillw.. glad you could make it :-)17:06
balloonsSo, I'm not going to renew the action. alourie's scheduled shifted I believe, and he is unable to attend these meeting atm. However, the wiki still does need updating a bit. Any volunteers to 'feature the automatedtesting wiki page prominently"?17:07
* phillw will do it.17:07
balloonsawesome :-) I think you can communicate to the list once it's done.. Thanks phillw!17:08
balloonsACTION: phillw to update wiki to better reflect activities and automated testing pages17:08
balloons[ACTION] phillw to update wiki to better reflect activities and automated testing pages17:08
meetingologyACTION: phillw to update wiki to better reflect activities and automated testing pages17:08
balloonsgreat. That's it for previous actions17:09
balloons[TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates17:09
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Flavor Updates
balloonslet's discuss what's going on in the different flavors.. phillw, want to go first with lubuntu?17:10
phillwokay, our alternate for power ppc vanished from the alpha2 area & the current daily is too big for a cd17:11
phillwthis is stopping testing as older ppc's only have cd drive17:11
phillwI'm not sure if it is a build problem - but will raise it with our head of dev later, unless anyone here knows the cause?17:12
balloonsoffhand I do not know17:13
phillwI did email about it, but got no reply.17:13
balloonsgema could not be with us today.. is jibel in here?17:13
phillwas far as I know, that's the only big gremlin affecting lubuntu.17:14
balloonshi jibel.. any thoughts on the disappearing isos for lubuntu.. see above17:15
jibelno clue, let me check17:16
balloonsthanks jibel!17:16
balloonsastraljava, would you like to update us on ubuntu studio?17:16
astraljavaSure. Unfortunately progress ground to a halt after Alpha-2. We're gonna have a lot to do prior to Feature Freeze, so I'd expect lots more to report next week.17:16
balloonsthis does appear to be the calm in the eye of the hurricane doesn't it? :-)17:17
jibelphillw, ppc images were untested hence not published or did you explicitly asked to the release manager to publish them anyway ?17:17
astraljavaballoons: It sure seems that way. :)17:17
phillwjibel: I did not for ppc stiff. I know there a few re-spins for the others.17:18
balloonsphillw, jibel so the image didn't get built automatically because they weren't tested, and they were not explicitly built etheir so they didn't show up. This correct?17:20
jibelballoons, the image were built automatically but not released because they were untested.17:22
jibelthe last ppc build was 20120201.117:22
balloonsjibel, ok I understand.. So phillw, for your needs you need a ppc image to test right? jibel can the image be released now?17:23
phillwthey were there, but the testers where having problems  - i think that this carried on so long as to cause people to think that no testing was going on, when my emails were arriving often !17:23
jibelso only dailies are available and they are oversized.17:23
phillwjibel: yes.17:24
jibelphillw, lets talk to skaet after the meeting.17:24
phillwthanks :)17:25
balloonsthanks jibel and phillw17:26
balloonsok, jibel while we have you, care to give a quick update on ubuntu?17:26
jibelA2 released last week17:27
jibelmajor issues where with resolvconf and the advanced partitioner in ubiquity17:28
jibelluckily unity 5.2 was released Friday, right after A217:28
jibelthat leave plenty of time to test it and make Beta 1 a solid milestone.17:28
jibelNext week we'll be testing the 4th release of Lucid17:29
jibelthis is the last point release for Lucid17:29
jibelif you want help Lucid (or any stable release) go to this page http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html17:30
jibeland help testing packages in proposed17:30
jibelthat's all from me for today17:30
jibelquestions / comments ?17:30
balloonsjibel, just adding this wiki page also talks thru the process of doing an SRU I believe17:32
jibelthanks for the link17:32
balloonsalright, let's check and see if anyone frm kubuntu is around and can give an update ScottK or Darkwing ?17:33
balloonsI don't see anyone from xubuntu.. but speak up if your here.. any xubuntu updates?17:34
balloonsFinally, any update on edubuntu? stgraber, highvoltage?17:34
=== greyback|lunch is now known as greyback
balloonsif not, let's move on to our last topic17:35
balloons{TOPIC] Other topics17:35
balloons[TOPIC] Other topics17:35
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Other topics
* balloons wishes he could type sometimes17:36
balloonsok, first off, anything people want to discuss?17:36
Riddellballoons: ?17:36
Riddelloh srus, dunno what we have for kubuntu currently17:37
balloonsRiddell, I was asking for kubuntu qa updates.. anything in general.. how did alpha 2 testing go, etc17:37
balloonsand hello Riddell :-)17:37
Riddellalpha 2 was ok17:38
balloonsdid you want to add anything else Riddell?17:38
Riddellwe got i386 and amd64 out17:38
RiddellI'm still to get my arm device working17:38
balloonsRiddell, you have an arm developer board or something cooler than that?17:39
Riddellpandaboard I think17:39
balloonsgotcha.. thanks for the update Riddell17:40
balloonsOk, if no one else has an addtional item, I will share17:42
balloonsI wanted to highlight the good work done on the unity 5.2 testing that jibel mentioned has now landed in the archive17:42
balloonsdidrocks has an excellent post explaining the results from the testing: http://blog.didrocks.fr/post/Unity-5.2-is-now-released%2117:43
balloonsso thanks to everyone that was involved.17:43
balloonsok, I think that's it for this week. Remember beta is coming sooner than we think :-) Happy testing everyone. Thanks for coming17:44
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Wed Feb  8 17:44:28 2012 UTC.17:44
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-17.02.moin.txt17:44
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-17.02.html17:44
phillwballoons: thanks for chairing :)17:45
bdmurrayTime for the bug squad meeting!18:01
meetingologyMeeting started Wed Feb  8 18:02:07 2012 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.18:02
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired18:02
=== jsalisbury_ is now known as jsalisbury
bdmurray#topic Previous Actions18:02
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Previous Actions
bdmurrayearlier we had talked about compiling a list of DBus.Error.NoReply bug reports and looking at their status, importance and gravity18:03
bdmurraybefore deciding how to tackle them18:03
UrsinhaI 'm working on it right now18:03
bdmurrayI've created such a list18:03
bdmurraythe search_text parameter for the API wasn't a huge help so I just looked at all the apport crashes18:04
Ursinharegardless the package?18:04
bdmurrayUrsinha: right ;-)18:04
UrsinhaI thought there would be more of them18:05
bdmurraywell apport did a lot of duplicating on a per package basis18:06
Ursinhabdmurray, the way you said when we discussed that, I thought there were hundreds18:06
Ursinhabdmurray, how long it takes for that script to run?18:07
bdmurraybug 43788318:07
ubottuLaunchpad bug 437883 in blueman (Ubuntu Precise) "blueman-applet crashed with DBusException in call_blocking()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43788318:07
Ursinhacan we add titles and such to be easier to have an idea?18:07
bdmurrayactually that one isn't a perfect example but gives you an idea of how apport would mark duplicates about one package18:08
bdmurrayyofel: yes?18:08
bdmurrayUrsinha: sure18:08
yofeljust idling around as I haven't been there for a while18:08
bdmurraybug 707990 is a better example18:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 707990 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashed with DBusException in _convert_dbus_exception(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/70799018:09
bdmurrayUrsinha: so what would you like to see really?18:09
Ursinhabdmurray, I don't know, maybe the title/package along with the bug#18:09
bdmurray#action bdmurray to improve list of dbus error no reply bugs18:10
meetingologyACTION: bdmurray to improve list of dbus error no reply bugs18:10
bdmurray#topic Engineering Team Bug Status18:11
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Engineering Team Bug Status
bdmurrayUrsinha: do you have anything for us?18:11
Ursinhanothing specific; I've been working on a bug list sorted by "gravity", will have something to show next meeting18:11
bdmurrayjsalisbury: anything on your side?18:12
jsalisburybdmurray, nothing specific as well.  I've bee focused on bisecting and building test kernels for precise bugs.18:12
Ursinhajsalisbury, there is a bug I've been hitting lately, not sure it's something important18:13
Ursinha(not sure this is the place to discuss as well :))18:13
UrsinhaI have a nfs mount that causes ls to hang18:13
UrsinhaI found a kernel bug today that mentions the problem in natty, and in older kernels18:13
jsalisburyUrsinha, hmm, interesting.  maybe open a bug and I can take a deeper look.18:14
bdmurrayhow about we talk about it towards the end?18:14
bdmurrayI've been lookingat lots of ubiquity bugs the past week18:14
bdmurrayand have come up with a tagging scheme to identify parts of the installer where people saw the bug18:15
bdmurrayin the notes at the end (rather rough yet)18:15
bdmurrayand as a public service announcement you might encounter a bug when installing from alpha 2 with flashplugin-installer, if you choose the restricted software option18:16
bdmurraythat's being investigated18:17
bdmurrayLots of bug patterns being merged from Vadim Rutkovsky too18:17
Ursinhathat bug that crashes the installation?18:18
bdmurrayThose have actually brought up some old bugs too which has been helpful18:18
bdmurrayUrsinha: yes18:18
Ursinhabdmurray, that's an old bug, isn't it? problem with network manager not being able to resolve the names and flash failing to download...18:18
bdmurrayUrsinha: yes, its come back and may have something to do with the new name resolution bits18:19
bdmurraythe installer crashing in this case is bug 87629818:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 876298 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "[MASTER] We need to better handle external payloads (Flash, msttcorefonts) not being available." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87629818:20
bdmurrayanyway thats it from me18:20
=== s9iper1 is now known as bil21al
bdmurray#topic Bug Escalations (any High or Critical bugs that community members have seen that need attention)18:21
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bug Escalations (any High or Critical bugs that community members have seen that need attention)
bdmurrayyofel: do you have anything?18:21
bil21albdmurray:  for your information from my side all the high and critical bugs of empathy are in progress18:22
bdmurraybil21al: that's great18:23
bdmurraynext topic then18:24
bdmurray#topci other topics18:24
bdmurray#topic other topics18:24
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: other topics
bdmurrayis there anything else to discuss?18:24
Ursinhacan I show that bug to jsalisbury? :)18:25
ubottuUbuntu bug 760744 in linux (Ubuntu) "NFS mount hangs ls and nautilus" [Undecided,Confirmed]18:25
jsalisburyUrsinha, looking18:25
yofelis a symlink in that folder? I've had apps hang on an ioctl() when the nfs mount was hung while looking up the link18:25
Ursinhajsalisbury, so, I'm not sure what to change in that bug to add that I'm having a problem with 3.0.0 in oneiric18:26
Ursinhayofel, mine isn't18:26
jsalisburyUrsinha, you could open a separate bug, we can investigate and mark as a duplicate if it is in fact a duplicate.18:27
Ursinhasure, thanks jsalisbury18:27
jsalisburyUrsinha, np.  sometimes this could be an NFS client issue as well.18:27
hggdhI dimly remember an issue with ' ls --color' and non-accessible mounts18:28
jsalisburyUrsinha, I recall at one point we changed from NFS3 by default to NFS4.18:28
yofelhggdh: that's what I was talking about18:28
hggdhthe user should try with 'ls --color=no'18:28
Ursinhahggdh, hm18:28
hggdhthis is a known issue, but I am not sure it can be solved nicely18:28
hggdhthere are at least one coreutils bug on it18:29
Ursinhaby nicely you mean...18:29
hggdhyofel: indeed :-), sorry18:29
UrsinhaI'll file the bug and investigate a bit more, will try the no color trick18:29
yofelheh, np18:29
yofelyou were more accurate18:30
jsalisburyUrsinha, can you add the kernel-da-key tag?  That will put it on my hot list.18:30
Ursinhasure jsalisbury18:30
jsalisburyUrsinha, thanks18:30
bdmurrayany other business?18:30
Ursinhano, thanks :)18:31
yofelnot from me18:32
hggdhjsalisbury: I dimlly recollect this being discussed upstream at coreutils -- my recollection is that this would have to be fixed by the kernel, and the kernel folks did not quite agree18:32
jsalisburyhggdh, thanks for the info.  Was it discussed on LKML?  Or just the coreutils mailing list?18:33
hggdhUrsinha: there are already some bugs on this18:33
bdmurrayokay thanks everyone18:33
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Wed Feb  8 18:33:45 2012 UTC.18:33
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-18.02.moin.txt18:33
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-18.02.html18:33
Ursinhahggdh, searching....18:33
hggdhjsalisbury: coreutils ML. I do not follow LKML18:34
jsalisburyhggdh, ok, thanks.  I'll take a look.18:34
hggdhUrsinha: bug 264313 for example18:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 264313 in coreutils (Ubuntu) "ls --color hangs for directories linked from network " [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26431318:35
hggdhUrsinha, jsalisbury: this *might* have been solved by coreutils bug 10243 -- http://bugs.gnu.org/1024318:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 10243 in gnupg (Ubuntu) "PowerPC seems to be missing the "let users lock small amounts of ram" patch." [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1024318:39
=== leszek_ is now known as leszek
wxlphillw: if we do indeed have a meeting are you planning on mentioning the ppc stuff as part of your qa announcements or should we make that a separate item?19:59
phillwwxl: I'll mention it on QA, you have the latest on the 'black-scree'.19:59
wxli'll add in for sure20:00
* gilir takes a seat20:01
gilir#startmeeting Lubuntu Team Meeting20:02
meetingologyMeeting started Wed Feb  8 20:02:06 2012 UTC.  The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.20:02
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired20:02
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic:
* wxl just added one last item…20:02
gilirhi :)20:02
giliras usual, agenda available on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda20:03
gilirand as a quick note, sorry for being quite this past few days, it should be ok now :)20:03
rafaellagunaEverybody has personal life20:04
YorvykOK the rest of us managed to make enough noise to compensate :)20:05
gilirphillw, I don't see any actions items from last meeting, so I'm moving to the items :)20:05
gilir#topic phillw - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team20:06
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic: phillw - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
phillwI brought up that the ppc alternate vanished from alpha2 area. It appears a misunderstanding20:06
wxldid it vanish now?20:07
wxli thought it was just huge :D20:07
phillwthey thought no-one was testing it. They're going to try an get us a CD sized alternate for ppc built :)20:07
leszekits playing seek and hide :P20:07
gilirphillw, alpha2 was a bit messy :/20:07
wxlwe have at least 5 potential testers. would be nice to have more. i noticed today that qemu can emulate ppc if others are interested20:08
phillwone of the tresters did actually install onto a ppc - but I've not had any further news yet.20:08
gilirwxl, what is the actual state of ppc daily (alternate and live) ?20:08
wxlgilir: daily-live is cd sized but is buggy and will not install successfully in my experience20:09
phillwgilir: the normal one is on-size, alternate is over-size.20:09
wxlgilir: as for alternate it is too large-- which makes no logical sense but is what it is (in fact last time i checked ALL the alternates were oversized)20:09
gilir#action gilir to reduce size of ppc alternate daily20:09
leszekwxl: maybe taskel issue here20:09
meetingologyACTION: gilir to reduce size of ppc alternate daily20:09
phillwwxl: has an update on testing the 'norma' installation.20:10
wxlgilir: check http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ -- they are ALL oversized still, not just ppc20:10
gilirI should be able to reduce the size, if there is a bug on another part, we will have time to find it20:10
gilirouch :/20:10
wxldownloaded the latest x86 daily-live and it would not boot. seems like the same old crashing dm issue-- not the one where the greeter fails and you can still log in20:11
leszekMy guess the alternative iso stores too many packages. Even uneeded ones20:11
gilirthere is still unity on the alternate :/20:11
leszekthat might be it20:12
gilirok, I'll check this20:12
wxlin any case, the lightdm-gtk-greeter and/or unity-greeter issue is still not resolved :(20:12
rafaellaguna(sorry, back to PC)20:12
gilirwxl, I can't tell now, need to check what's wrong, I'm still not up-to-date with precise recent chenges20:13
wxlgilir: no prob, just make an action ;)20:13
gilirphillw, anything else from QA ?20:14
rafaellagunathere're still people asking if we're using unity or lxdm greeters20:14
phillwgilir: nothing to add.20:14
gilirrafaellaguna, the goal is to used the lightdm-gtk-greeter, no unity-greeter, no lxdm20:15
gilirand of course, no unity by default :)20:15
gilirphillw, thanks :)20:15
StephenSmallysorry i'm late20:15
rafaellagunaI know, that's a thing to control, the rumours even fall into Unity20:15
phillw918401 had the most recent news I am aware of.20:15
rafaellagunathere is a lot of noise with these alphas20:15
gilirUnit193 doesn't seem here, moving to next item20:16
gilir#topic phillw - Weekly report - Update from comms team20:16
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic: phillw - Weekly report - Update from comms team
phillwthe comms team is restructuring, I'll have more news hopefully, next week.20:17
gilirphillw, IMO it's something we have to discuss in private with all the members of the team20:18
gilirphillw, let's move to the next item if you don't have anything to add20:19
gilir#topic Unit193 - Weekly report - Update from IRC OP's team20:19
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic: Unit193 - Weekly report - Update from IRC OP's team
Unit193Right, there's been a problem user that hasn't listened to rules, the IRC team stuff is still pending as far as I know20:20
Unit193There was some thought about adding us on the site to clean up spam there too though20:21
gilirUnit193, which site ?20:22
Unit193lubuntu.net, but that may have been a thought20:22
phillwmario did request some extra eyes.20:23
gilirUnit193, not sure it's should be the job of IRC team, but if you want to help, I'm sure it will be appreciate :)20:23
Unit193Anything else I'm missing, others here?20:23
=== tobin is now known as joshuaAFK
wxli'll say one thing20:24
wxlsince i was the innocent recipient of the "dialogue" from this problem user20:24
wxlit might be good to have a published plan of action on what to do for the support folks20:24
wxlcuz i would have prolly just let it slide/forgotten about it20:24
Unit193He's been a problem with us quite a few times, and in another channel too20:25
leszekso they are only two possible ways, either ignore him or act and warn/kick maybe ban him20:26
wxli don't mean that kind of action20:26
wxlmore about reporting it to the appropriate parties which phillw was kind enough to alert me to but i suspect there are others in support (and the future support team) that may not have this knowledge20:27
Unit193leszek: When he tries to join, he'll be redirected to #ubuntu-ops20:28
leszekah ok20:28
gilirUnit193, anything to add ?20:29
Unit193Nothing more unless someone else can think of it20:29
gilirok thanks Unit193 :)20:29
phillwUnit193: can we put our heads together to get something for support after the meeting.20:30
giliramjjawad doesn't seem to be here, moving to next20:30
gilir#topic gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams20:30
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic: gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
giliralpha 2 was released, but only for alternate20:31
phillwjust for the record, amjjawad is away for a month, I'll try and keep up with what is going on for him. any of the support team can give me a ping / email.20:31
gilirthe live ISO was fixed just the day of the release20:31
gilirphillw, ok, thanks for the news20:31
wxlum, "fixed?" ;)20:31
gilirwxl, yes but maybe it's another problem20:32
giliralso, we are now very close to Feature Freeze20:32
gilirit means, no new feature, no new version (unless bug fixes only) can be added after this freeze20:33
leszekyep and I hope the new lxkeymap will make it in time20:33
gilirso after February 16th, it's closed ! :)20:33
rafaellagunasure yes, unlike lxlauncher20:34
MrChrisDruifI thought there could be made exceptions to this Feature Freeze?20:34
StephenSmallyrafaellaguna: i wasn't planning a release for precise20:34
wxllxlauncher won't make it? :(20:34
gilirleszek, please give us some time for the packaging also :)20:34
rafaellagunaStephanSmally: it would be crazy, better next release20:34
gilirfor now, only lsc and lxkeymap (the previous version) are on time for feature freeze20:35
MrChrisDruifrafaellaguna; it *could* always be backported if it's important enough20:35
gilirit means, no lxfind, no lxlauncher v2 by default20:35
StephenSmallyand no lxscreenshot i think20:35
gilirMrChrisDruif, yes, exception are possible, but it should be really exceptions :)20:35
leszekgilir: but we can package lxkeymap 0.7.99 and then fix it up til release I hope20:35
rafaellagunaagree with gilir about changes20:36
gilirStephenSmally, yes also20:36
StephenSmallyok, both lxscreenshot and lxlauncher needs to be improved, so no problem20:36
gilirleszek, you don't plan to add more features ?20:36
leszekno its feature complete basically20:36
leszekit only needs bugfixing20:36
StephenSmally(anyway i can't get this ubuntu love for feature freeze ;-P )20:37
gilirleszek, ok, so we can update it as if for feature freeze, but it needs to be fixed for Beta 1 (01/03)20:37
rafaellagunaleszek: (cof) and (cof) icon remapping (cof)20:37
leszekStephenSmally: its a necessasity20:37
gilirStephenSmally, it's not a love :) Just a rule :)20:38
MrChrisDruifBtw, at which topic are we?20:38
StephenSmallywell, i get it speaking about software on the os iso, but i don't get it with the software in the repo20:38
leszekgilir: yeah it needs to be fixed thats the problem right now, because I don't have much time fixing it20:38
StephenSmallyleszek: i can help in bug fixing if necessary20:38
leszekStephenSmally: that would be really great20:39
StephenSmallyare all the bug listed on launchpad?20:39
StephenSmally(or git or something similar)20:39
leszekno not yet20:39
leszekI will list them, but you can also see the bugs in this short video I made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXIMOsYG6h420:40
MrChrisDruifMaybe I've got something for the current topic20:41
MrChrisDruifIt's what you could call a "bug" of the lubuntu-core meta-package20:42
StephenSmallyok, i will take a look, are only graphic bug or also keymap handling bugs?20:42
leszekStephenSmally: keymap handling is fine20:42
MrChrisDruifIf you look at the depends and recommends diffs between oneiric and precise, you'll be surprised20:42
StephenSmallyso graphic refining20:42
gilirStephenSmally, we can have a look at it after feature freeze, priority IMO is to release lsc ;)20:43
gilirStephenSmally, but we can talk about it later or after the meeting20:43
leszekso only graphical bug so far. The profile manager I added is also misbehaving somehow when you are deleting keymap profiles20:43
MrChrisDruifAlright, just ignore what I just said ^_^20:43
gilirand to finish the dev report20:44
gilirunfortunatly, the new session manager will probably not be ready for next week :/20:44
gilirI'm not sure I'll be able to fix it (and the other part of LXDE) before the release, so it's probably safer to keep the current one for 12.0420:45
gilirsorry :(20:45
MrChrisDruifgilir; will we then be seeing a lightweight solution to the heated discussion of the mailing-list?20:46
MrChrisDruifThe clipboard manager issue?20:46
wxlMrChrisDruif: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda#preview20:46
gilirMrChrisDruif, there is a specific item for this ;)20:46
gilirany other questions ?20:47
YorvykI was only going to ask the same thing20:47
gilir#topic MrChrisDruif - Weekly report - Update from Docs team20:47
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic: MrChrisDruif - Weekly report - Update from Docs team
anliot i'm getting some random crashes w/ a daily build from saturdy.  someone help me report them or identiy them?20:47
MrChrisDruifAh, missed all those topics20:48
giliranliot, you can ask on #lubuntu chan when you are testing20:48
MrChrisDruifAnyhow, nothing serious to report from the Docs team, other then that Ali is working on different pages of the wiki20:49
gilirok thanks MrChrisDruif :)20:49
MrChrisDruifWe've still have to get our game-plan defined20:49
gilirthat's the fun part :)20:49
MrChrisDruifGhehe, yeah....right ;-)20:50
gilir#topic Yorvyk - Inclusion of clipboard manager or similar. Bug #92689320:51
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Lubuntu Team Meeting Meeting | Current topic: Yorvyk - Inclusion of clipboard manager or similar. Bug #926893
ubottuLaunchpad bug 926893 in lubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "There is NO Clipboard Manager in Lubuntu - a basic feature yet very important" [Undecided,Opinion] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92689320:51
MrChrisDruifAnyhow, we've been mailing a bit on some ideas so we hope to have something more concrete next week, but real life is intervening all the time with me20:51
wxluh oh20:51
* wxl puts on his flameproof suit20:51
gilirMrChrisDruif, ok, sorry I was a bit too fast20:52
YorvykIs there a solution to this bug?20:52
MrChrisDruifIt's alright ^_^20:52
MrChrisDruifYorvyk; according to the mailing-list several20:52
wxlthere are many solutions :D20:52
gilirYorvyk, yes :)20:52
leszekI don't really get the problem of the clipboard manager . CTRL+C and marking and pasting with middle mouse button works fine. Other desktops don't bring clipboard managers by default, so why should we or do we need one ?20:52
gilirthe question is, which is the best :)20:53
gilirleszek, well, there is still an issue with leafpad for example20:53
wxlgilir: i don't want to make more work for anyone but i like the idea of lxclippy20:53
gilirtry copy on leafpad, close leafpad, and try to paste20:53
anliotcontrol+c clipboard gets destroyed when an app closes.20:53
rafaellagunait's an X problem?20:54
anliotits an x feature20:54
wxlxclip (was that it?) seems like a good starting point. memory usage is small. not entirely sure of its footprint disk space-wise because its part of that whole gaggle of x11 apps.20:54
gilirwxl, but we don't need all the feature of a clipboad manager (like parcelite)20:54
YorvykI prefer it to disappear when the app closes20:54
leszekah ok so the bug should be against lxsession than, correct ?20:54
MrChrisDruifwxl suggested clipit at one time20:54
wxlgilir: right that's what i'm saying-- just make it simple. just enough to protect20:55
wxlMrChrisDruif: as i pointed out on the ml clipit's memory usage is a little bit larger than xclip20:55
gilirleszek, yes, I think lxsession should handle basic clipboard management20:55
rafaellagunaagree, in osx the clipboard contents stay. imagine it with a 16 mb image20:55
wxlgilir leszek +1 i like that idea the best20:55
* MrChrisDruif didn't finish reading all the post of the thread yet20:55
gilirwxl, clipit is a fork of parcelite I think, so it's the same case than parcelite20:55
wxlgilir: as i said, i wasn't suggesting clipit. i was just saying i use it :D but i'm not suggesting lubuntu needs it. i'm saying we make something very simple. just enough to protect.20:56
rafaellagunawxl: for that purpose we don't need an app, just modify the session20:57
wxlrafaellaguna: didn't realize that was an option until now which is also why i said i like that idea the best :D20:57
anliotwhen you run xclip in --daemon mode it has no user interface period.20:57
anliotit just sits as a daemon and saves the clipboard20:57
wxlof course it seems there are other people who dislike the idea altogether. maybe this should be one of those pre-freeze voting kind of things20:58
anliotlike you would expect windows or linux mint to do20:58
anlioti meant to say clipit20:58
leszekone thing that we could do for sure is install an clipboard manager like parcelite (wasn't it in back in an old version ?) but disable it by default. So that the user has to decide if he/she wants to use this feature20:58
StephenSmallyanyway we can just "steal" the base xclip code and add it to lxsession20:58
wxlif we're going forward i think StephenSmally hit the nail on the head20:58
gilirleszek, we done this in the past, parcelite was by default, but not started20:59
rafaellagunaStephanSmally: yesss20:59
leszekgilir: yeah exactly. So why don't do this again ?20:59
gilirStephenSmally, could be a solution also :)20:59
MrChrisDruifanliot; is the same with parcellite?20:59
MrChrisDruif"parcellite --deamon --no-icon"?20:59
wxlwe need a vote21:00
wxlwe could argue about this all day21:00
MrChrisDruifI don't know memory usage differences when running it like a daemon?21:00
gilirok, I'll make a summarize of the options for thi sissue21:01
YorvykI think a bit of benchmarking is needed21:01
anliotno we don't need benchmarking21:01
MrChrisDruifAnd which is more supported xclip vs parcellite21:01
anliotits 2-5 megs of memory21:01
gilirwe can decide what to do before the next meeting, or during the meeting21:01
anliotso the --daemon = 2-5 megs of memory21:01
gilirYorvyk, and any benchmarking / testing will be appreciate :)21:02
wxlgilir: sounds good. make an action and move on ;)21:02
gilir#action gilir to summarize and document clipboard issue on the mailing list21:02
meetingologyACTION: gilir to summarize and document clipboard issue on the mailing list21:02
* MrChrisDruif is off again21:03
gilirthe meeting should be finished now :/21:03
wxlok </stupid-clipboard-manager-topic> ;)21:03
MrChrisDruifSee y'all later21:03
wxlthere's more to do21:03
gilirYorvyk, can we move your other item to next meeting ?21:03
wxli guess we'll skip it eh21:03
wxlYorvyk, StephenSmally and me you mean gilir :D21:03
YorvykYes, as I have to go very soon anyway21:03
gilirStephenSmally, we can look at lsc release tomorow evening ?21:03
rafaellagunaok, leaving. Good night, boys21:04
YorvykBye all.21:04
gilirok, thanks everyones :)21:04
wxloh well21:04
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Wed Feb  8 21:04:54 2012 UTC.21:04
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-20.02.moin.txt21:04
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-20.02.html21:04
leszekcu n821:04
gilirwxl, sorry, didn't see your last item :/21:06
gilirwxl, do you open a bug report about it ?21:06
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