[00:04] <duanedesign>  Beginners Team Meeeting  o/
[00:04] <Unit193> \o
[00:04] <ashickur-noor> \o
[00:05] <JoseeAntonioR> o/
[00:05] <duanedesign> #startmeeting
[00:05] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb  8 00:05:48 2012 UTC.  The chair is duanedesign. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[00:05] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[00:06] <JoseeAntonioR> so, we're only 4 here
[00:06] <ashickur-noor> yap
[00:07] <duanedesign> #meetingtopic Beginners Team February Meeting
[00:08] <JoseeAntonioR> so, what are we going to discuss today?
[00:08] <duanedesign> I wanted to talk about the mentor/guides/student
[00:09] <ashickur-noor> +1
[00:09] <duanedesign> and how we guide new people who come into the channel or email us after they  find our wiki
[00:09] <JoseeAntonioR> maybe having a welcome page for beginners
[00:10] <ashickur-noor> wiki page is enough I think
[00:10] <ashickur-noor> for welcome
[00:10] <JoseeAntonioR> +1
[00:10] <JoseeAntonioR> a wiki page where we say hello, and specify what can people do for support, or for community collaboration
[00:10] <duanedesign> #topic Guiding Ubuntu Users New to the Community
[00:11] <duanedesign> We have, and many team, tried the 1 mentor 1 apprentice thing
[00:11] <duanedesign> wherre someone signs a waiting list and waits to be assigned or picked up by a mentor
[00:12] <duanedesign> it is very hard to keep up with
[00:12] <JoseeAntonioR> that's a good idea, but, as you said, we would need a lot of people
[00:12] <ashickur-noor> hum
[00:12] <duanedesign> The Bug Squad has been using their Mailing List more extensively
[00:12] <ashickur-noor> But this is our problem
[00:12] <duanedesign> That way users do not have to wait
[00:13] <ashickur-noor> people
[00:13] <JoseeAntonioR> waiting list is a pretty good idea, but it would need to be managed in a different way
[00:13] <JoseeAntonioR> so we don't have that big problem
[00:14] <duanedesign> The problem has been not enough mentors
[00:14] <JoseeAntonioR> exactly
[00:14] <ashickur-noor> +1 JoseeAntonioR
[00:15] <JoseeAntonioR> people are 50/50 satisfied with LP answers, but they complain about not getting an instant answer
[00:15] <JoseeAntonioR> and sometimes, it's something they could have found out just by searching
[00:15] <duanedesign> The Bug Squad during the Natty cycle started https://launchpad.net/~bugsquad-mentorship-group-alpha
[00:16] <ashickur-noor> yes this is why we are here
[00:16] <ashickur-noor> yo give support to the new
[00:17] <duanedesign> the idea behind what the Bug Squad did was to have a handful of mentors help a larger group of apprentices
[00:17] <JoseeAntonioR> something like 1 mentor with 3 or 5 apprentices?
[00:17] <ashickur-noor> So wee need mentor
[00:18] <duanedesign> I think this is a good idea. Instead of having one mentor one apprentice
[00:18] <duanedesign> JoseeAntonioR: right
[00:18] <ashickur-noor> +1
[00:18] <JoseeAntonioR> if we start something like that, we need something like a schedule
[00:19] <ashickur-noor> Like
[00:19] <duanedesign> I think we could use the team mailing list and everyone pitches in to help answer quesations for those people looking to get started in the community
[00:19] <ashickur-noor> When which mentor will be present?
[00:20] <JoseeAntonioR> I have noticed something
[00:20] <duanedesign> i think we could be informal. Everyone help out when they can.
[00:20] <duanedesign> Hopefully we would all try and check the list regularly
[00:20] <ashickur-noor> It is our regular task
[00:20] <JoseeAntonioR> when people is redirected to the IRC, they normally enter the #ubuntu channel, and they ask very basic questions
[00:20] <ashickur-noor> But there is hardly mail in the list
[00:21] <JoseeAntonioR> it would be good if someone who is usually in the channel redirects that person to #ubuntu-beginners
[00:21] <duanedesign> another issue with the current list is people feel like they can not get started working in the community until they get a mentor
[00:22] <ashickur-noor> one thing we can do
[00:22] <Unit193> JoseeAntonioR: They can get help both places, and there are more to help in #u
[00:22] <JoseeAntonioR> duanedesign that's what I felt last year, as I didn't know where to start
[00:22] <ashickur-noor> we can divert people from #ubuntu to here
[00:22] <Unit193> duanedesign: Zone defence style
[00:23] <JoseeAntonioR> exactly, ashickur-noor
[00:24] <Unit193> I do not like the idea of redirecting people from another channel
[00:24] <ashickur-noor> I proposed it #u is too busy
[00:24] <duanedesign> The type of help we would be giving on the mamiling list would be people interested in getting involved in the community.
[00:25] <ashickur-noor> even I don't like to there to take help
[00:25] <ashickur-noor> unless there is some one here
[00:25] <duanedesign> ashickur-noor: when you ask a question it is off the screen in a couple seconds
[00:25] <Unit193> As far as #u goes, they have a lot more people supporting, how many times have you seen a question go unanswered?
[00:25] <ashickur-noor> One thing we can do
[00:25] <JoseeAntonioR> duanedesign maybe giving them an introduction to LP
[00:26] <ashickur-noor> for me some times
[00:26] <JoseeAntonioR> Unit193 is right. 80% of the time the question is answered.
[00:26] <duanedesign> JoseeAntonioR: that would be good tool for people to learn early on
[00:26] <duanedesign> JoseeAntonioR: under 'Guides' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors
[00:26] <ashickur-noor> we can do one more thing
[00:26] <duanedesign> JoseeAntonioR: we have a few things for people new to the community to do
[00:26] <ashickur-noor> promote this team
[00:26] <Unit193> And how many times have you seen #u-b go unanswered?
[00:27] <JoseeAntonioR> Unit193 I have never seen.
[00:27] <Unit193> I have many times
[00:27] <ashickur-noor> My experience is same as Unit193
[00:28] <ashickur-noor> in @ubt
[00:28] <ashickur-noor> *#ubt
[00:28] <Unit193> And Team channel isn't exactly for support
[00:28] <ashickur-noor> it for discussion
[00:29] <JoseeAntonioR> duanedesign we might put some guides in the wiki, like introduction to lp, how to report bugs, how to answer questions, some tips, irc helping, etc
[00:29] <ashickur-noor> +1
[00:29] <duanedesign> JoseeAntonioR: we had a 'sign post' page at one time
[00:29] <duanedesign> because those pages exist elsewhere on the wiki we just need to find them and link to them
[00:30] <duanedesign> I would like each Focus Group Page to have a few steps to get people started
[00:30] <JoseeAntonioR> duanedesign and maybe link the UBT wiki page in the membership page, so people can know where to find some guiding
[00:32] <duanedesign> if you look at the User Support page it has where users can give support and some resources to help them give support https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Support
[00:33] <duanedesign> The bugs page a better 'roadmap' under Current Tasks https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Bugs
[00:33] <Unit193> duanedesign: So you want to move this to group but on the mailing list?
[00:33] <duanedesign> that way people can help themselves as much as possible :)
[00:33] <ashickur-noor> :-)
[00:34] <duanedesign> Unit193: move what?
[00:34] <Unit193> Currently I see the focus mainly in IRC
[00:34] <duanedesign> ahh, right
[00:36] <duanedesign> When people join the Beginners Team and want to get started helping other users I just want to make sure we are doing a good job of getting them started
[00:37] <JoseeAntonioR> so, new users would have to introduce theirselves in the mailing list?
[00:37] <duanedesign> My thought was that the guide mentor list is not working very well.
[00:37] <ashickur-noor> Good idea
[00:37] <Unit193> Alright, I'm  not saying I'd be agenst doing the mailing list style, just I'm not a mailing list sender
[00:37] <duanedesign> :)
[00:38] <duanedesign> I think IRC is optimal if people are present to help
[00:38] <ashickur-noor> Hum
[00:38] <duanedesign> but we always had mentors as the safety net.
[00:38] <Unit193> Also, I noticed #ub gets some people after being banned (for a reason!) from #u
[00:38] <ashickur-noor> list is also good
[00:39] <duanedesign> if you couldnt reach someone to answer your question you had a mentor who  volunteeres to help you. I think the mailing List could be that 'safety net'/
[00:39] <ashickur-noor> +1 duanedesign
[00:39] <JoseeAntonioR> I think that's great
[00:40] <Unit193> I would agree that is a good idea
[00:41] <duanedesign> ok, i will write an email to send to the mailing list to get feedback from the rest of the team
[00:41] <duanedesign> anyone elsse have anything?>
[00:42] <ashickur-noor> nope
[00:42] <JoseeAntonioR> erm, I think I have something
[00:43] <duanedesign> #action duanedesign is going to email the ML to get further team feedback on tweaking the mentor program.
[00:43] <meetingology> ACTION: duanedesign is going to email the ML to get further team feedback on tweaking the mentor program.
[00:43] <duanedesign> JoseeAntonioR: what was on your mind?
[00:44] <JoseeAntonioR> I'm trying to explain it :S
[00:44] <JoseeAntonioR> how do we get beginners to contact us? because afaik we aren't on the docs
[00:45] <duanedesign> Is us, the team
[00:45] <duanedesign> or us, individual members?
[00:45] <JoseeAntonioR> the team
[00:45] <ashickur-noor> yes it is a question
[00:46] <JoseeAntonioR> I mean, I don't see many beginners entering the IRC channel, I only see 3 or 4 a week
[00:46] <duanedesign> i think most people stumble on the wiki
[00:46] <duanedesign> or the IRC channel
[00:46] <ashickur-noor> every one does not know that there is ubt
[00:46] <JoseeAntonioR> ashickur-noor, that's my point
[00:47] <ashickur-noor> What I say before
[00:47] <ashickur-noor> We have to promote our team
[00:47] <JoseeAntonioR> yes
[00:48] <ashickur-noor> by social media
[00:48] <duanedesign> last year we were working on reaching out to other teams
[00:48] <ashickur-noor> by other list
[00:48] <ashickur-noor> other team
[00:49] <ashickur-noor> from forums
[00:49] <Unit193> Yes, but advertising in #u is agenst policy, and we need to get good, dedicated mentors first
[00:49] <ashickur-noor> if we don't promote
[00:50] <ashickur-noor> then new will know about us
[00:50] <ashickur-noor> about Ubuntu
[00:50] <JoseeAntonioR> Ok. So first of all, let's tweak the mentorship system, so we can promote afterwards
[00:50] <ashickur-noor> Sounds like good
[00:52] <duanedesign> #action brainstorm on ways to reach new users looking to get involved in the coomunity
[00:52] <meetingology> ACTION: brainstorm on ways to reach new users looking to get involved in the coomunity
[00:52] <duanedesign> hows that :)
[00:52] <JoseeAntonioR> great
[00:53] <duanedesign> thanks JoseeAntonioR
[00:53] <JoseeAntonioR> :)
[00:53] <duanedesign> thanks Unit193
[00:53] <Unit193> As hobgoblin keeps saying, we need to get shorter /topics as people don't read them, and that may get a few more doing it
[00:53] <Unit193> duanedesign: I didn't do much
[00:53] <duanedesign> thanks ashickur-noor
[00:54] <JoseeAntonioR> yes, before we end, wha Unit193 said
[00:54] <duanedesign> Unit193: our topics in the IRC chabbels?
[00:54] <duanedesign> ugh
[00:54] <ashickur-noor> it's my pleasure
[00:54] <Unit193> duanedesign: Yes sir
[00:54] <duanedesign> channels*
[00:54] <duanedesign> Unit193: good idea
[00:54] <Unit193> I can talk after meeting, nothing really needed in here
[00:55] <duanedesign> ok :)
[00:55] <duanedesign> if nothing else?
[00:55] <ashickur-noor> I will update the team report
[00:55] <duanedesign> ahh cool
[00:55] <ashickur-noor> some one update the meeting log and next meeting
[00:55] <duanedesign> yep
[00:56] <JoseeAntonioR> I'll update the wiki
[00:56] <duanedesign> short list of after meeting items on the /meeting wiki page
[00:56] <duanedesign> #endmeeting
[00:56] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb  8 00:56:34 2012 UTC.
[00:56] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-00.05.moin.txt
[00:56] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-00.05.html
[16:00]  * slangasek waves
[16:00] <jhunt_> o/
[16:01]  * stgraber waves
[16:01] <ev> hi
[16:01]  * barry can't wait to see jhunt_ 's "done" character today
[16:01] <bdmurray> I thought jhunt_ was gone
[16:02] <doko> good morning, early here ...
[16:02] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb  8 16:02:31 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:02] <slangasek> doko: no, it's the usual time ;
[16:02] <slangasek> )
[16:02] <doko> heh
[16:03] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
[16:03] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jhunt_ ev bdmurray slangasek)
[16:03] <slangasek> jhunt_ ev doko bdmurray slangasek stgraber barry
[16:03] <slangasek> no cjwatson today, per his mail
[16:03] <jhunt_> Working on bug 922754 - jason and myself both independently found the
[16:03] <jhunt_> same bug in openssh! :-) Reworking code to take account of such 'unusually
[16:03] <jhunt_> behaved apps'. Started to look at stgrabers upstart-containers MP.
[16:03] <jhunt_> ⏏
[16:04]  * jhunt_ now using erc :)
[16:04] <ev> - Summary email to Rick on the Open Invention Network meeting I attended at
[16:04] <ev>   his request last week.
[16:04] <ev> - Verifying that Wubi 11.10 is not affected by the recent download fallback
[16:04] <ev>   bug, as expected.
[16:04] <ev> - Merging Loic's Automake fixes for libtimezonemap.
[16:04] <ev> - Wired the DBus preferences to the configuration file and vice versa in the
[16:04] <ev>   preferences dialog backend.
[16:04] <ev> - Added PolicyKit wrapping to the preferences dialog backend methods.
[16:04] <barry> jhunt_: rock!
[16:04] <ev> - Wired the checkboxes to DBus calls in the preferences page.
[16:04] <ev> - Set up DBus service activation for the preferences page backend.
[16:04] <ev> - Shut down the preferences page backend 60 seconds after the last call.
[16:04] <ev> - Fixed some bugs in the preferences page backend.
[16:04] <ev> - Uploaded a new whoopsie (0.1.5) with the completed preferences page.
[16:04] <ev> - Initial remodeling of the apport crash dialog in support of the new crash
[16:04] <ev>   database.
[16:04] <ev> - Show the icons of the application with a bottom right error icon overlay,
[16:04] <ev>   rather than just a generic error icon in the apport crash dialog.
[16:04] <ev> - Sorted travel for Strata.
[16:05] <ev> - Move obtaining the report information into a thread that's either called
[16:05] <ev>   when the user presses the Show Details button or when they choose to report
[16:05] <ev>   the bug, as discussed previously with Matthew and Martin.
[16:05] <ev> - Handle the different types of bug reports having slightly different UI in
[16:05] <ev>   the apport crash dialog.
[16:05] <ev> - Wire up the crash counter field to the ignore future problems checkbox.
[16:05] <ev> - Fixed a few bugs in the new apport UI.
[16:05] <ev> - Built and uploaded a new Wubi for 10.04.4.
[16:05] <ev> - Found out from Matthew that GNOME has gone ahead and created their own page
[16:05] <ev>   called Privacy in the Control Center. I'll have to rework the code as a
[16:05] <ev>   patch that adds a Diagnostics tab. :(
[16:05] <ev> - Blacklist the report if the user checked the ignore future problems
[16:05] <ev>   checkbox.
[16:05] <ev> - Better handling of calling into collect_info, as was the case previously,
[16:05] <ev>   complete with error handling UI in threads.
[16:05] <ev> - Handle the administrator disabling crash reporting.
[16:05] <ev> - Actually notify the crash reporting daemon that there's a new crash to
[16:05] <ev>   upload.
[16:05] <ev> - Started work on the KDE side of the apport changes.
[16:05] <ev> (done)
[16:05] <doko> - openjdk-6 and icedtea-web builds
[16:05] <doko> - fosdem (best news is that RedHat announced their openjdk ARM build does pass the TCK)
[16:05] <doko> - now at Linaro Connect
[16:05] <doko> - will upload eglibc-2.15 today
[16:06] <doko>  ... if nobody intervenes
[16:06] <doko> done
[16:06] <ev> (was actually Canonical, not GNOME)
[16:06] <bdmurray> bug triage of ubiquity bug reports
[16:06] <bdmurray> updated ubiquity apport source package hook to include installer command line
[16:06] <bdmurray> iso-testing bug triage
[16:06] <bdmurray> review of merge proposals from Vadim Rutkovsky
[16:06] <bdmurray> testing ubiquity bug 924836 regarding ifupdown and plymouth
[16:06] <bdmurray> testing ubiquity bug 902479 regarding details (dupe searching)
[16:06] <bdmurray> testing ubiquity bug 645449 and finding duplicates of it
[16:06] <bdmurray> searched for DBus.Error.NoReply bug reports
[16:06] <bdmurray> added screenlog.0 log file to precise update-manager apport hook
[16:06] <bdmurray> debugging of collect bug data for arsenal reports
[16:06] <bdmurray> tested apt-clone and dist-upgrade of lucid to precise (bug 927993)
[16:06] <bdmurray> apport branch not to remove dependencies.txt from duplicates
[16:06] <bdmurray> updated meta-release files on changelogs.ubuntu.com to show 12.04 LTS
[16:07] <bdmurray> ⁂
[16:08] <slangasek>  * alpha-2 out the door
[16:08] <slangasek>  * interviewing
[16:08] <slangasek>  * nothing much else to report
[16:08] <slangasek>  * I'll be off Monday
[16:08] <slangasek> ə
[16:08] <stgraber> - Testing tracker
[16:08] <stgraber>  - Help with Alpha 2 preparation
[16:08] <stgraber>  - Wrote an initial to generate a list of releasable images from the tracker based on testing coverage
[16:08] <stgraber> - Networking
[16:08] <stgraber>  - Some more work on resolvconf, reverting the init script change that was done last week and usnig a relative symlink for /etc/resolv.conf instead
[16:08] <stgraber>  - Merged some fixes into netcfg, fixed it to deal properly with reoslvconf and fixed another small DHCPv6 issue.
[16:08] <stgraber>  - Got daily d-i IPv6 testing running, just need to have the results pushed somewhere now
[16:09] <stgraber>  - Follow-up on SRUs for ifupdown, ifenslave-2.6, vlan, bridge-utils. TREllis should have test results soon that will let us move all that to -updates (if succesful)
[16:09] <stgraber> - LTSP
[16:09] <stgraber>  - Started preparing the LTSP upload for Precise, there are a lot of upstream changes, so currently testing in a PPA with a few LTSP developers (yeah, you, alkisg ;))
[16:09] <stgraber>  - Reworked LTSP-Live, just need to do some more testing on it and that'll be on less WI :)
[16:09] <stgraber> - Containers
[16:09] <stgraber>  - Updated upstart branch a bit, still pending review, hopefully this week.
[16:09] <stgraber>  - Got LXC to build armel and armhf containers on x86! http://www.stgraber.org/2012/02/03/ever-wanted-an-armel-or-armhf-container-on-an-x86-machine-its-now-possible-with-lxc-in-ubuntu-precise/
[16:09] <stgraber>  - Started looking at ways to allow for clean upgrades and dist-upgrades of running containers
[16:09] <stgraber> - TPM
[16:09] <stgraber>  - tpm-tools is back in Ubuntu!
[16:09] <stgraber>  - Now to do a few tests and documment that stuff (post-FF probably)
[16:09] <stgraber> - TODO
[16:09] <stgraber>  - Trying to get as much as possible done before Feature Freeze, thankfully quite a few work items can be done after it.
[16:09] <stgraber> (done)
[16:09] <stgraber> *wrote an initial script
[16:10] <slangasek> armel containers on x86 - freaky stuff :
[16:10] <slangasek> )
[16:10] <slangasek> stgraber: do you have tpm-tools working on your system now?
[16:11] <stgraber> slangasek: I have it installed, not quite working yet but I need to try with a clean TPM and David's instructions
[16:11]  * slangasek nods
[16:12] <slangasek> barry:
[16:12] <barry> prepared and conducted udd class for udw; updated udd online docs.  long discussions on various python security issues.  python3-pyqt4-dbus review. DM application.  helped out oem and other internal devs on some packaging issues.  updated patch for wadllib+python3 submitted to debian.  wrote up debian python packaging style guide proposal: <http://tinyurl.com/7g2ybep>. todo: gearing up for stable+1 maintenance work this month;
[16:12] <barry> coordinate w/pitti and SpamapS. off on friday. ⊗
[16:13] <slangasek> barry: has your DM application been approved?  (For some reason that's set up to where everybody can see the application, and then no one knows when it's accepted...)
[16:14] <barry> slangasek: i honestly don't know.  the docs say "wait a while" so i'm waiting for confirmation
[16:14] <slangasek> k :)
[16:14] <barry> ;)
[16:15] <slangasek> [TOPIC] FF
[16:15]  * ev runs away screaming
[16:16] <slangasek> I'm told Feature Freeze is happening next Thursday :)
[16:16] <slangasek> so don't get caught holding a feature on Thursday, or it'll freeze to your skin and have to be surgically removed
[16:16] <ev> does our health insurance policy cover that?
[16:16] <barry> ev: not in the usa
[16:16] <slangasek> ;)
[16:17] <slangasek> if there are any features you're concerned about not having done before FF, talk to me (and the release team) *now*, don't wait 'til next Thursday
[16:18] <doko> I'm still toying with making ruby1.9 the default, have to talk with lucas
[16:19] <barry> doko: there was some discussion yesterday in #u-devel about numpy 1.6.  any thoughts on that?
[16:19] <barry> (jtaylor is interested in that)
 jtaylor, I don't see a reason not to do that. so if you have packages for numpy, scipy, and maybe others, let me know
[16:20] <slangasek> doko: is that something you'll coordinate with the server team as well?  Ruby is in main to support their apps specifically
[16:20] <barry> doko: fantastic, thanks
[16:20] <doko> slangasek, ok will pester Daviey
[16:21] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
[16:22] <slangasek> bdmurray: have we found all the bugs now, or are there still new ones?
[16:22] <bdmurray> slangasek: I'm pretty sure there are still some new ones
[16:23] <bdmurray> Oh, actually I found a funny one yesterday 928447
[16:23] <bdmurray> bug 928447
[16:24] <slangasek> heh
[16:24] <bdmurray> seriously though - ev any progress with a wubi 247 for oneiric?
[16:25] <bdmurray> also bug 920479 has been around for some time
[16:25] <ev> bdmurray: I tried to reproduce this issue with the wubi installer from ubuntu.com attempting to use the development release payload, but it did not
[16:25] <bdmurray> er 902479
[16:26] <stgraber> bdmurray: yeah, I guess that's because of an older RFC stating an hostname can't start by a digit and some software still expect that to be true
[16:26] <bdmurray> ev: so what needs to happen next
[16:27] <ev> well, I fixed bug 924752 for precise
[16:27] <ev> I'm not convinced the "if I copy this off the cd and try to run it from the desktop" is really a bug
[16:28] <bdmurray> right but what I did is download from ubuntu.com and it tried to install the development.  I'll test it again though just to be really sure.
[16:28] <slangasek> stgraber: even in the current RFCs, hostnames aren't allowed to consist entirely of numbers
[16:28] <ev> bdmurray: please do
[16:28] <ev> if you can reliably reproduce it, I'd like to see some logs from that attempt
[16:28] <bdmurray> regarding numbers as hostnames was that it won't let you until you type in a password
[16:29] <bdmurray> ev: and is there a debug switch for wubi?
[16:29] <ev> make sure you're getting it from the page off of ubuntu.com
[16:29] <ev> bdmurray: nope, it dumps its brain to %TEMP%
[16:29] <ev> with debug logging the default
[16:30] <bdmurray> okay
[16:30] <bdmurray> bug 902479
[16:31] <bdmurray> its not a huge deal but rather ugly
[16:31] <ev> ask me about that one when we're deep in bug fixing mode :)
[16:32] <slangasek> ev: should we assign it to you in the meantime? :)
[16:32] <stgraber> slangasek: do you know which RFC(s)? 952 is not particularly clear on the "just a number" bit as the "can't start by a digit" was taking care of that case, then 1123 says that the "can't start by a digit" bit is dropped
[16:33] <ev> slangasek: you can assign to me as many bugs as you'd like, now the milestone field on the other hand... ;)
[16:33] <ev> s/,/./
[16:33] <slangasek> heh
[16:33] <ev> go ahead, but I promise not to touch it until we're past UI freeze
[16:33] <slangasek> stgraber: not offhand; but I'm sure that a hostname consisting entirely of numbers is still prohibited, and is routinely interpreted as a decimal encoding of an IP
[16:34] <slangasek> bdmurray: any other bugs?
[16:34] <bdmurray> yes bug 876298 seems to have come up again as there are some issues installing flashplugin
[16:35]  * doko is changing rooms, plenaries start at 8:30 at Linaro :-/
[16:35]  * slangasek waves to doko
[16:35] <bdmurray> some installs are failing to resolve archive.canonical.com to get flash and then the install crashes
[16:35] <bdmurray> stgraber and I talked about the name resolution failure which is a separate issue
[16:36] <bdmurray> it just seems to me that fixing 876298 would help more people install
[16:37] <slangasek> barry: that one's assigned to you; have you had a chance to look into it at all?
[16:37] <barry> slangasek: i haven't but i will
[16:37] <stgraber> slangasek: right, the closest thing I found is in the DNS RFC (1912) which clearly states that a label can't be a number, though that's specifically for DNS records. Anyway, enough digging in RFCs for the day ;)
[16:38] <slangasek> barry: ok, thanks
[16:38] <slangasek> I also want to remind folks about http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-bugs/reports/rls-p-tracking-bugs.html
[16:38] <bdmurray> additionally would fixing hat help with bug 922949?
[16:39] <slangasek> this has the list of bugs that we really really need to fix for release... and the numbers aren't going down very quickly :(
[16:40] <slangasek> some of them are targeted to beta-1 and are on track... but we probably shouldn't leave the rest to the end of the cycle, lest they fail to make the cut
[16:41] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:41] <slangasek> anything else?
[16:42] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[16:42] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb  8 16:42:33 2012 UTC.
[16:42] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-16.02.moin.txt
[16:42] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-16.02.html
[16:42] <slangasek> thanks, guys!
[16:42] <stgraber> thanks!
[16:42] <barry> thanks!
[16:42] <jhunt_> thanks!
[17:01] <balloons> hello everytime.. time for the weeekly qa meeting
[17:02] <balloons> #startmeeting
[17:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb  8 17:02:01 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[17:02] <balloons> We have a short agenda for today.. Can I get a roll call of who all is here quickly?
[17:02] <astraljava> o/
[17:03] <balloons> AGENDA:
[17:03] <balloons> Previous Actions
[17:03] <balloons> ACTION: :alourie to feature AutomatedTesting wiki page prominently in wiki, based upon list discussion (balloons, 17:19:45)
[17:03] <balloons> Ubuntu Flavor Updates
[17:03] <balloons> Other topics
[17:03] <balloons> hi astraljava
[17:03] <astraljava> Hey there.
[17:03] <balloons> just you, me and the idlers
[17:03] <balloons> :-)
[17:03] <astraljava> Looks that way. :)
[17:04] <balloons> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
[17:05] <balloons> hello phillw
[17:05] <balloons> ok,the only outstanding action is one carried over for alourie..
[17:05] <phillw> hi balloons sorry I'm late - just put new O/S on.
[17:06] <balloons> no worries phillw.. glad you could make it :-)
[17:07] <balloons> So, I'm not going to renew the action. alourie's scheduled shifted I believe, and he is unable to attend these meeting atm. However, the wiki still does need updating a bit. Any volunteers to 'feature the automatedtesting wiki page prominently"?
[17:07]  * phillw will do it.
[17:08] <balloons> awesome :-) I think you can communicate to the list once it's done.. Thanks phillw!
[17:08] <balloons> ACTION: phillw to update wiki to better reflect activities and automated testing pages
[17:08] <balloons> oops
[17:08] <balloons> [ACTION] phillw to update wiki to better reflect activities and automated testing pages
[17:08] <meetingology> ACTION: phillw to update wiki to better reflect activities and automated testing pages
[17:09] <balloons> great. That's it for previous actions
[17:09] <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates
[17:10] <balloons> let's discuss what's going on in the different flavors.. phillw, want to go first with lubuntu?
[17:11] <phillw> okay, our alternate for power ppc vanished from the alpha2 area & the current daily is too big for a cd
[17:11] <phillw> this is stopping testing as older ppc's only have cd drive
[17:12] <phillw> I'm not sure if it is a build problem - but will raise it with our head of dev later, unless anyone here knows the cause?
[17:13] <balloons> offhand I do not know
[17:13] <phillw> I did email about it, but got no reply.
[17:13] <balloons> gema could not be with us today.. is jibel in here?
[17:14] <jibel> hi
[17:14] <phillw> as far as I know, that's the only big gremlin affecting lubuntu.
[17:15] <balloons> hi jibel.. any thoughts on the disappearing isos for lubuntu.. see above
[17:16] <jibel> no clue, let me check
[17:16] <balloons> thanks jibel!
[17:16] <balloons> astraljava, would you like to update us on ubuntu studio?
[17:16] <astraljava> Sure. Unfortunately progress ground to a halt after Alpha-2. We're gonna have a lot to do prior to Feature Freeze, so I'd expect lots more to report next week.
[17:17] <astraljava> ..
[17:17] <balloons> this does appear to be the calm in the eye of the hurricane doesn't it? :-)
[17:17] <jibel> phillw, ppc images were untested hence not published or did you explicitly asked to the release manager to publish them anyway ?
[17:17] <astraljava> balloons: It sure seems that way. :)
[17:18] <phillw> jibel: I did not for ppc stiff. I know there a few re-spins for the others.
[17:20] <balloons> phillw, jibel so the image didn't get built automatically because they weren't tested, and they were not explicitly built etheir so they didn't show up. This correct?
[17:22] <jibel> balloons, the image were built automatically but not released because they were untested.
[17:22] <jibel> the last ppc build was 20120201.1
[17:23] <balloons> jibel, ok I understand.. So phillw, for your needs you need a ppc image to test right? jibel can the image be released now?
[17:23] <phillw> they were there, but the testers where having problems  - i think that this carried on so long as to cause people to think that no testing was going on, when my emails were arriving often !
[17:23] <jibel> so only dailies are available and they are oversized.
[17:24] <phillw> jibel: yes.
[17:24] <jibel> phillw, lets talk to skaet after the meeting.
[17:25] <phillw> thanks :)
[17:26] <balloons> thanks jibel and phillw
[17:26] <balloons> ok, jibel while we have you, care to give a quick update on ubuntu?
[17:27] <jibel> A2 released last week
[17:27] <jibel> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports/PreciseAlpha2TestReport
[17:28] <jibel> major issues where with resolvconf and the advanced partitioner in ubiquity
[17:28] <jibel> luckily unity 5.2 was released Friday, right after A2
[17:28] <jibel> that leave plenty of time to test it and make Beta 1 a solid milestone.
[17:29] <jibel> Next week we'll be testing the 4th release of Lucid
[17:29] <jibel> this is the last point release for Lucid
[17:30] <jibel> if you want help Lucid (or any stable release) go to this page http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
[17:30] <jibel> and help testing packages in proposed
[17:30] <jibel> that's all from me for today
[17:30] <jibel> questions / comments ?
[17:30] <jibel> ..
[17:32] <balloons> jibel, just adding this wiki page also talks thru the process of doing an SRU I believe
[17:32] <balloons> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/PerformingSRUVerification
[17:32] <jibel> thanks for the link
[17:33] <balloons> alright, let's check and see if anyone frm kubuntu is around and can give an update ScottK or Darkwing ?
[17:34] <balloons> I don't see anyone from xubuntu.. but speak up if your here.. any xubuntu updates?
[17:34] <balloons> Finally, any update on edubuntu? stgraber, highvoltage?
[17:35] <balloons> if not, let's move on to our last topic
[17:35] <balloons> {TOPIC] Other topics
[17:35] <balloons> [TOPIC] Other topics
[17:36]  * balloons wishes he could type sometimes
[17:36] <balloons> ok, first off, anything people want to discuss?
[17:36] <Riddell> balloons: ?
[17:37] <Riddell> oh srus, dunno what we have for kubuntu currently
[17:37] <balloons> Riddell, I was asking for kubuntu qa updates.. anything in general.. how did alpha 2 testing go, etc
[17:37] <balloons> and hello Riddell :-)
[17:38] <Riddell> alpha 2 was ok
[17:38] <balloons> did you want to add anything else Riddell?
[17:38] <Riddell> we got i386 and amd64 out
[17:38] <Riddell> I'm still to get my arm device working
[17:39] <balloons> Riddell, you have an arm developer board or something cooler than that?
[17:39] <Riddell> pandaboard I think
[17:40] <balloons> gotcha.. thanks for the update Riddell
[17:42] <balloons> Ok, if no one else has an addtional item, I will share
[17:42] <balloons> I wanted to highlight the good work done on the unity 5.2 testing that jibel mentioned has now landed in the archive
[17:43] <balloons> didrocks has an excellent post explaining the results from the testing: http://blog.didrocks.fr/post/Unity-5.2-is-now-released%21
[17:43] <balloons> so thanks to everyone that was involved.
[17:44] <balloons> ok, I think that's it for this week. Remember beta is coming sooner than we think :-) Happy testing everyone. Thanks for coming
[17:44] <balloons> #endmeeting
[17:44] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb  8 17:44:28 2012 UTC.
[17:44] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-17.02.moin.txt
[17:44] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-17.02.html
[17:45] <phillw> balloons: thanks for chairing :)
[18:01] <bdmurray> Time for the bug squad meeting!
[18:02] <jsalisbury_> o/
[18:02] <bdmurray> #startmeeting
[18:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb  8 18:02:07 2012 UTC.  The chair is bdmurray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[18:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:02] <bdmurray> #topic Previous Actions
[18:03] <bdmurray> earlier we had talked about compiling a list of DBus.Error.NoReply bug reports and looking at their status, importance and gravity
[18:03] <bdmurray> before deciding how to tackle them
[18:03] <Ursinha> I 'm working on it right now
[18:03] <bdmurray> I've created such a list
[18:03] <Ursinha> cool!
[18:03] <bdmurray> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/834211/
[18:04] <bdmurray> the search_text parameter for the API wasn't a huge help so I just looked at all the apport crashes
[18:04] <Ursinha> regardless the package?
[18:04] <bdmurray> Ursinha: right ;-)
[18:05] <Ursinha> I thought there would be more of them
[18:06] <bdmurray> well apport did a lot of duplicating on a per package basis
[18:06] <Ursinha> bdmurray, the way you said when we discussed that, I thought there were hundreds
[18:06] <Ursinha> hmm
[18:06] <yofel> o/
[18:07] <Ursinha> bdmurray, how long it takes for that script to run?
[18:07] <bdmurray> bug 437883
[18:07] <Ursinha> can we add titles and such to be easier to have an idea?
[18:08] <bdmurray> actually that one isn't a perfect example but gives you an idea of how apport would mark duplicates about one package
[18:08] <bdmurray> yofel: yes?
[18:08] <bdmurray> Ursinha: sure
[18:08] <yofel> just idling around as I haven't been there for a while
[18:09] <bdmurray> bug 707990 is a better example
[18:09] <bdmurray> Ursinha: so what would you like to see really?
[18:09] <Ursinha> bdmurray, I don't know, maybe the title/package along with the bug#
[18:10] <bdmurray> okay
[18:10] <bdmurray> #action bdmurray to improve list of dbus error no reply bugs
[18:10] <meetingology> ACTION: bdmurray to improve list of dbus error no reply bugs
[18:11] <bdmurray> #topic Engineering Team Bug Status
[18:11] <bdmurray> Ursinha: do you have anything for us?
[18:11] <Ursinha> nothing specific; I've been working on a bug list sorted by "gravity", will have something to show next meeting
[18:12] <bdmurray> great
[18:12] <bdmurray> jsalisbury: anything on your side?
[18:12] <jsalisbury> bdmurray, nothing specific as well.  I've bee focused on bisecting and building test kernels for precise bugs.
[18:13] <jsalisbury> s/bee/been/
[18:13] <Ursinha> jsalisbury, there is a bug I've been hitting lately, not sure it's something important
[18:13] <Ursinha> (not sure this is the place to discuss as well :))
[18:13] <Ursinha> I have a nfs mount that causes ls to hang
[18:13] <Ursinha> I found a kernel bug today that mentions the problem in natty, and in older kernels
[18:14] <jsalisbury> Ursinha, hmm, interesting.  maybe open a bug and I can take a deeper look.
[18:14] <bdmurray> how about we talk about it towards the end?
[18:14] <Ursinha> sure
[18:14] <bdmurray> I've been lookingat lots of ubiquity bugs the past week
[18:15] <bdmurray> and have come up with a tagging scheme to identify parts of the installer where people saw the bug
[18:15] <bdmurray> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingUbiquity
[18:15] <bdmurray> in the notes at the end (rather rough yet)
[18:16] <Ursinha> cool
[18:16] <bdmurray> and as a public service announcement you might encounter a bug when installing from alpha 2 with flashplugin-installer, if you choose the restricted software option
[18:17] <bdmurray> that's being investigated
[18:17] <bdmurray> Lots of bug patterns being merged from Vadim Rutkovsky too
[18:18] <Ursinha> that bug that crashes the installation?
[18:18] <bdmurray> Those have actually brought up some old bugs too which has been helpful
[18:18] <bdmurray> Ursinha: yes
[18:18] <Ursinha> bdmurray, that's an old bug, isn't it? problem with network manager not being able to resolve the names and flash failing to download...
[18:19] <bdmurray> Ursinha: yes, its come back and may have something to do with the new name resolution bits
[18:19] <Ursinha> right
[18:20] <bdmurray> the installer crashing in this case is bug 876298
[18:20] <bdmurray> anyway thats it from me
[18:21] <bdmurray> #topic Bug Escalations (any High or Critical bugs that community members have seen that need attention)
[18:21] <bdmurray> yofel: do you have anything?
[18:22] <yofel> nope
[18:22] <bdmurray> anybody?
[18:22] <bil21al> bdmurray:  for your information from my side all the high and critical bugs of empathy are in progress
[18:23] <bdmurray> bil21al: that's great
[18:23] <bil21al> hm
[18:24] <bdmurray> next topic then
[18:24] <bdmurray> #topci other topics
[18:24] <bdmurray> #topic other topics
[18:24] <bdmurray> is there anything else to discuss?
[18:25] <Ursinha> can I show that bug to jsalisbury? :)
[18:25] <bdmurray> sure!
[18:25] <Ursinha> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/760744
[18:25] <jsalisbury> Ursinha, looking
[18:25] <yofel> is a symlink in that folder? I've had apps hang on an ioctl() when the nfs mount was hung while looking up the link
[18:26] <Ursinha> jsalisbury, so, I'm not sure what to change in that bug to add that I'm having a problem with 3.0.0 in oneiric
[18:26] <Ursinha> yofel, mine isn't
[18:27] <jsalisbury> Ursinha, you could open a separate bug, we can investigate and mark as a duplicate if it is in fact a duplicate.
[18:27] <Ursinha> sure, thanks jsalisbury
[18:27] <jsalisbury> Ursinha, np.  sometimes this could be an NFS client issue as well.
[18:28] <hggdh> I dimly remember an issue with ' ls --color' and non-accessible mounts
[18:28] <jsalisbury> Ursinha, I recall at one point we changed from NFS3 by default to NFS4.
[18:28] <yofel> hggdh: that's what I was talking about
[18:28] <hggdh> the user should try with 'ls --color=no'
[18:28] <Ursinha> hggdh, hm
[18:28] <hggdh> this is a known issue, but I am not sure it can be solved nicely
[18:29] <hggdh> there are at least one coreutils bug on it
[18:29] <Ursinha> by nicely you mean...
[18:29] <hggdh> programmatically
[18:29] <Ursinha> right
[18:29] <hggdh> yofel: indeed :-), sorry
[18:29] <Ursinha> I'll file the bug and investigate a bit more, will try the no color trick
[18:29] <yofel> heh, np
[18:30] <yofel> you were more accurate
[18:30] <jsalisbury> Ursinha, can you add the kernel-da-key tag?  That will put it on my hot list.
[18:30] <Ursinha> sure jsalisbury
[18:30] <jsalisbury> Ursinha, thanks
[18:30] <bdmurray> any other business?
[18:31] <Ursinha> no, thanks :)
[18:32] <yofel> not from me
[18:32] <hggdh> jsalisbury: I dimlly recollect this being discussed upstream at coreutils -- my recollection is that this would have to be fixed by the kernel, and the kernel folks did not quite agree
[18:33] <jsalisbury> hggdh, thanks for the info.  Was it discussed on LKML?  Or just the coreutils mailing list?
[18:33] <hggdh> Ursinha: there are already some bugs on this
[18:33] <bdmurray> okay thanks everyone
[18:33] <bdmurray> #endmeeting
[18:33] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb  8 18:33:45 2012 UTC.
[18:33] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-18.02.moin.txt
[18:33] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-18.02.html
[18:33] <Ursinha> hggdh, searching....
[18:34] <hggdh> jsalisbury: coreutils ML. I do not follow LKML
[18:34] <jsalisbury> hggdh, ok, thanks.  I'll take a look.
[18:35] <hggdh> Ursinha: bug 264313 for example
[18:39] <hggdh> Ursinha, jsalisbury: this *might* have been solved by coreutils bug 10243 -- http://bugs.gnu.org/10243
[19:59] <wxl> phillw: if we do indeed have a meeting are you planning on mentioning the ppc stuff as part of your qa announcements or should we make that a separate item?
[19:59] <phillw> wxl: I'll mention it on QA, you have the latest on the 'black-scree'.
[19:59] <phillw> +n
[20:00] <wxl> i'll add in for sure
[20:01]  * gilir takes a seat
[20:02] <gilir> #startmeeting Lubuntu Team Meeting
[20:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb  8 20:02:06 2012 UTC.  The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[20:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[20:02]  * wxl just added one last item…
[20:02] <gilir> hi :)
[20:02] <Yorvyk> o/
[20:02] <phillw> o/
[20:02] <leszek> :)
[20:03] <gilir> as usual, agenda available on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
[20:03] <wxl> _/\o/\_
[20:03] <wxl> ;)
[20:03] <gilir> and as a quick note, sorry for being quite this past few days, it should be ok now :)
[20:04] <rafaellaguna> Everybody has personal life
[20:05] <Yorvyk> OK the rest of us managed to make enough noise to compensate :)
[20:05] <gilir> phillw, I don't see any actions items from last meeting, so I'm moving to the items :)
[20:06] <gilir> #topic phillw - Weekly report - Update from QA meeting and team
[20:06] <phillw> I brought up that the ppc alternate vanished from alpha2 area. It appears a misunderstanding
[20:07] <wxl> did it vanish now?
[20:07] <wxl> i thought it was just huge :D
[20:07] <phillw> they thought no-one was testing it. They're going to try an get us a CD sized alternate for ppc built :)
[20:07] <leszek> its playing seek and hide :P
[20:07] <gilir> phillw, alpha2 was a bit messy :/
[20:08] <wxl> we have at least 5 potential testers. would be nice to have more. i noticed today that qemu can emulate ppc if others are interested
[20:08] <phillw> one of the tresters did actually install onto a ppc - but I've not had any further news yet.
[20:08] <gilir> wxl, what is the actual state of ppc daily (alternate and live) ?
[20:09] <wxl> gilir: daily-live is cd sized but is buggy and will not install successfully in my experience
[20:09] <phillw> gilir: the normal one is on-size, alternate is over-size.
[20:09] <wxl> gilir: as for alternate it is too large-- which makes no logical sense but is what it is (in fact last time i checked ALL the alternates were oversized)
[20:09] <gilir> #action gilir to reduce size of ppc alternate daily
[20:09] <leszek> wxl: maybe taskel issue here
[20:09] <meetingology> ACTION: gilir to reduce size of ppc alternate daily
[20:10] <phillw> wxl: has an update on testing the 'norma' installation.
[20:10] <wxl> gilir: check http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ -- they are ALL oversized still, not just ppc
[20:10] <gilir> I should be able to reduce the size, if there is a bug on another part, we will have time to find it
[20:10] <gilir> ouch :/
[20:11] <wxl> downloaded the latest x86 daily-live and it would not boot. seems like the same old crashing dm issue-- not the one where the greeter fails and you can still log in
[20:11] <leszek> My guess the alternative iso stores too many packages. Even uneeded ones
[20:11] <gilir> there is still unity on the alternate :/
[20:12] <leszek> that might be it
[20:12] <gilir> ok, I'll check this
[20:12] <wxl> in any case, the lightdm-gtk-greeter and/or unity-greeter issue is still not resolved :(
[20:12] <rafaellaguna> (sorry, back to PC)
[20:13] <gilir> wxl, I can't tell now, need to check what's wrong, I'm still not up-to-date with precise recent chenges
[20:13] <wxl> gilir: no prob, just make an action ;)
[20:14] <gilir> phillw, anything else from QA ?
[20:14] <rafaellaguna> there're still people asking if we're using unity or lxdm greeters
[20:14] <phillw> gilir: nothing to add.
[20:15] <gilir> rafaellaguna, the goal is to used the lightdm-gtk-greeter, no unity-greeter, no lxdm
[20:15] <gilir> and of course, no unity by default :)
[20:15] <gilir> phillw, thanks :)
[20:15] <StephenSmally> sorry i'm late
[20:15] <rafaellaguna> I know, that's a thing to control, the rumours even fall into Unity
[20:15] <phillw> 918401 had the most recent news I am aware of.
[20:15] <rafaellaguna> there is a lot of noise with these alphas
[20:16] <gilir> Unit193 doesn't seem here, moving to next item
[20:16] <gilir> #topic phillw - Weekly report - Update from comms team
[20:17] <phillw> the comms team is restructuring, I'll have more news hopefully, next week.
[20:17] <wxl> :)
[20:18] <gilir> phillw, IMO it's something we have to discuss in private with all the members of the team
[20:18] <phillw> indeed.
[20:19] <gilir> phillw, let's move to the next item if you don't have anything to add
[20:19] <gilir> #topic Unit193 - Weekly report - Update from IRC OP's team
[20:20] <Unit193> Right, there's been a problem user that hasn't listened to rules, the IRC team stuff is still pending as far as I know
[20:21] <Unit193> There was some thought about adding us on the site to clean up spam there too though
[20:22] <gilir> Unit193, which site ?
[20:22] <Unit193> lubuntu.net, but that may have been a thought
[20:23] <phillw> mario did request some extra eyes.
[20:23] <gilir> Unit193, not sure it's should be the job of IRC team, but if you want to help, I'm sure it will be appreciate :)
[20:23] <Unit193> Anything else I'm missing, others here?
[20:24] <wxl> i'll say one thing
[20:24] <wxl> since i was the innocent recipient of the "dialogue" from this problem user
[20:24] <wxl> it might be good to have a published plan of action on what to do for the support folks
[20:24] <wxl> cuz i would have prolly just let it slide/forgotten about it
[20:25] <Unit193> He's been a problem with us quite a few times, and in another channel too
[20:26] <leszek> so they are only two possible ways, either ignore him or act and warn/kick maybe ban him
[20:26] <wxl> i don't mean that kind of action
[20:27] <wxl> more about reporting it to the appropriate parties which phillw was kind enough to alert me to but i suspect there are others in support (and the future support team) that may not have this knowledge
[20:28] <Unit193> leszek: When he tries to join, he'll be redirected to #ubuntu-ops
[20:28] <leszek> ah ok
[20:29] <gilir> Unit193, anything to add ?
[20:29] <Unit193> Nothing more unless someone else can think of it
[20:29] <gilir> ok thanks Unit193 :)
[20:30] <phillw> Unit193: can we put our heads together to get something for support after the meeting.
[20:30] <gilir> amjjawad doesn't seem to be here, moving to next
[20:30] <gilir> #topic gilir - Weekly report - Update from Devs teams
[20:31] <gilir> alpha 2 was released, but only for alternate
[20:31] <phillw> just for the record, amjjawad is away for a month, I'll try and keep up with what is going on for him. any of the support team can give me a ping / email.
[20:31] <gilir> the live ISO was fixed just the day of the release
[20:31] <gilir> phillw, ok, thanks for the news
[20:31] <wxl> um, "fixed?" ;)
[20:32] <gilir> wxl, yes but maybe it's another problem
[20:32] <gilir> also, we are now very close to Feature Freeze
[20:33] <gilir> it means, no new feature, no new version (unless bug fixes only) can be added after this freeze
[20:33] <MrChrisDruif> Aloha
[20:33] <leszek> yep and I hope the new lxkeymap will make it in time
[20:33] <gilir> so after February 16th, it's closed ! :)
[20:34] <rafaellaguna> sure yes, unlike lxlauncher
[20:34] <MrChrisDruif> I thought there could be made exceptions to this Feature Freeze?
[20:34] <StephenSmally> rafaellaguna: i wasn't planning a release for precise
[20:34] <wxl> lxlauncher won't make it? :(
[20:34] <gilir> leszek, please give us some time for the packaging also :)
[20:34] <leszek> :)
[20:34] <rafaellaguna> StephanSmally: it would be crazy, better next release
[20:35] <gilir> for now, only lsc and lxkeymap (the previous version) are on time for feature freeze
[20:35] <MrChrisDruif> rafaellaguna; it *could* always be backported if it's important enough
[20:35] <gilir> it means, no lxfind, no lxlauncher v2 by default
[20:35] <StephenSmally> and no lxscreenshot i think
[20:35] <gilir> MrChrisDruif, yes, exception are possible, but it should be really exceptions :)
[20:35] <leszek> gilir: but we can package lxkeymap 0.7.99 and then fix it up til release I hope
[20:36] <rafaellaguna> agree with gilir about changes
[20:36] <gilir> StephenSmally, yes also
[20:36] <StephenSmally> ok, both lxscreenshot and lxlauncher needs to be improved, so no problem
[20:36] <gilir> leszek, you don't plan to add more features ?
[20:36] <leszek> no its feature complete basically
[20:36] <leszek> it only needs bugfixing
[20:37] <StephenSmally> (anyway i can't get this ubuntu love for feature freeze ;-P )
[20:37] <gilir> leszek, ok, so we can update it as if for feature freeze, but it needs to be fixed for Beta 1 (01/03)
[20:37] <rafaellaguna> leszek: (cof) and (cof) icon remapping (cof)
[20:37] <leszek> StephenSmally: its a necessasity
[20:38] <gilir> StephenSmally, it's not a love :) Just a rule :)
[20:38] <MrChrisDruif> Btw, at which topic are we?
[20:38] <StephenSmally> well, i get it speaking about software on the os iso, but i don't get it with the software in the repo
[20:38] <leszek> gilir: yeah it needs to be fixed thats the problem right now, because I don't have much time fixing it
[20:38] <StephenSmally> leszek: i can help in bug fixing if necessary
[20:39] <leszek> StephenSmally: that would be really great
[20:39] <StephenSmally> are all the bug listed on launchpad?
[20:39] <StephenSmally> (or git or something similar)
[20:39] <leszek> no not yet
[20:40] <leszek> I will list them, but you can also see the bugs in this short video I made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXIMOsYG6h4
[20:41] <MrChrisDruif> Maybe I've got something for the current topic
[20:42] <MrChrisDruif> It's what you could call a "bug" of the lubuntu-core meta-package
[20:42] <StephenSmally> ok, i will take a look, are only graphic bug or also keymap handling bugs?
[20:42] <leszek> StephenSmally: keymap handling is fine
[20:42] <MrChrisDruif> If you look at the depends and recommends diffs between oneiric and precise, you'll be surprised
[20:42] <StephenSmally> so graphic refining
[20:43] <gilir> StephenSmally, we can have a look at it after feature freeze, priority IMO is to release lsc ;)
[20:43] <gilir> StephenSmally, but we can talk about it later or after the meeting
[20:43] <leszek> so only graphical bug so far. The profile manager I added is also misbehaving somehow when you are deleting keymap profiles
[20:43] <StephenSmally> yep
[20:43] <MrChrisDruif> Alright, just ignore what I just said ^_^
[20:43] <leszek> k
[20:44] <gilir> and to finish the dev report
[20:44] <gilir> unfortunatly, the new session manager will probably not be ready for next week :/
[20:44] <leszek> xD
[20:45] <rafaellaguna> :|
[20:45] <gilir> I'm not sure I'll be able to fix it (and the other part of LXDE) before the release, so it's probably safer to keep the current one for 12.04
[20:45] <gilir> sorry :(
[20:46] <MrChrisDruif> gilir; will we then be seeing a lightweight solution to the heated discussion of the mailing-list?
[20:46] <wxl> yikes
[20:46] <MrChrisDruif> The clipboard manager issue?
[20:46] <wxl> MrChrisDruif: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda#preview
[20:46] <gilir> MrChrisDruif, there is a specific item for this ;)
[20:47] <gilir> any other questions ?
[20:47] <Yorvyk> I was only going to ask the same thing
[20:47] <gilir> #topic MrChrisDruif - Weekly report - Update from Docs team
[20:47] <anliot>  i'm getting some random crashes w/ a daily build from saturdy.  someone help me report them or identiy them?
[20:48] <MrChrisDruif> Ah, missed all those topics
[20:48] <gilir> anliot, you can ask on #lubuntu chan when you are testing
[20:48] <anliot> k
[20:49] <MrChrisDruif> Anyhow, nothing serious to report from the Docs team, other then that Ali is working on different pages of the wiki
[20:49] <gilir> ok thanks MrChrisDruif :)
[20:49] <MrChrisDruif> We've still have to get our game-plan defined
[20:49] <gilir> that's the fun part :)
[20:50] <MrChrisDruif> Ghehe, yeah....right ;-)
[20:51] <gilir> #topic Yorvyk - Inclusion of clipboard manager or similar. Bug #926893
[20:51] <MrChrisDruif> Anyhow, we've been mailing a bit on some ideas so we hope to have something more concrete next week, but real life is intervening all the time with me
[20:51] <wxl> uh oh
[20:51]  * wxl puts on his flameproof suit
[20:52] <gilir> MrChrisDruif, ok, sorry I was a bit too fast
[20:52] <Yorvyk> Is there a solution to this bug?
[20:52] <MrChrisDruif> It's alright ^_^
[20:52] <MrChrisDruif> Yorvyk; according to the mailing-list several
[20:52] <wxl> there are many solutions :D
[20:52] <gilir> Yorvyk, yes :)
[20:52] <leszek> I don't really get the problem of the clipboard manager . CTRL+C and marking and pasting with middle mouse button works fine. Other desktops don't bring clipboard managers by default, so why should we or do we need one ?
[20:53] <gilir> the question is, which is the best :)
[20:53] <gilir> leszek, well, there is still an issue with leafpad for example
[20:53] <wxl> gilir: i don't want to make more work for anyone but i like the idea of lxclippy
[20:53] <gilir> try copy on leafpad, close leafpad, and try to paste
[20:53] <anliot> control+c clipboard gets destroyed when an app closes.
[20:54] <rafaellaguna> it's an X problem?
[20:54] <anliot> its an x feature
[20:54] <wxl> xclip (was that it?) seems like a good starting point. memory usage is small. not entirely sure of its footprint disk space-wise because its part of that whole gaggle of x11 apps.
[20:54] <gilir> wxl, but we don't need all the feature of a clipboad manager (like parcelite)
[20:54] <Yorvyk> I prefer it to disappear when the app closes
[20:54] <leszek> ah ok so the bug should be against lxsession than, correct ?
[20:54] <MrChrisDruif> wxl suggested clipit at one time
[20:55] <wxl> gilir: right that's what i'm saying-- just make it simple. just enough to protect
[20:55] <wxl> MrChrisDruif: as i pointed out on the ml clipit's memory usage is a little bit larger than xclip
[20:55] <gilir> leszek, yes, I think lxsession should handle basic clipboard management
[20:55] <rafaellaguna> agree, in osx the clipboard contents stay. imagine it with a 16 mb image
[20:55] <wxl> gilir leszek +1 i like that idea the best
[20:55]  * MrChrisDruif didn't finish reading all the post of the thread yet
[20:55] <gilir> wxl, clipit is a fork of parcelite I think, so it's the same case than parcelite
[20:56] <wxl> gilir: as i said, i wasn't suggesting clipit. i was just saying i use it :D but i'm not suggesting lubuntu needs it. i'm saying we make something very simple. just enough to protect.
[20:57] <rafaellaguna> wxl: for that purpose we don't need an app, just modify the session
[20:57] <wxl> rafaellaguna: didn't realize that was an option until now which is also why i said i like that idea the best :D
[20:57] <anliot> when you run xclip in --daemon mode it has no user interface period.
[20:57] <anliot> it just sits as a daemon and saves the clipboard
[20:58] <wxl> of course it seems there are other people who dislike the idea altogether. maybe this should be one of those pre-freeze voting kind of things
[20:58] <anliot> like you would expect windows or linux mint to do
[20:58] <anliot> i meant to say clipit
[20:58] <leszek> one thing that we could do for sure is install an clipboard manager like parcelite (wasn't it in back in an old version ?) but disable it by default. So that the user has to decide if he/she wants to use this feature
[20:58] <StephenSmally> anyway we can just "steal" the base xclip code and add it to lxsession
[20:58] <wxl> if we're going forward i think StephenSmally hit the nail on the head
[20:59] <gilir> leszek, we done this in the past, parcelite was by default, but not started
[20:59] <rafaellaguna> StephanSmally: yesss
[20:59] <leszek> gilir: yeah exactly. So why don't do this again ?
[20:59] <gilir> StephenSmally, could be a solution also :)
[20:59] <MrChrisDruif> anliot; is the same with parcellite?
[20:59] <MrChrisDruif> "parcellite --deamon --no-icon"?
[20:59] <anliot> yeah
[21:00] <wxl> we need a vote
[21:00] <wxl> we could argue about this all day
[21:00] <MrChrisDruif> I don't know memory usage differences when running it like a daemon?
[21:01] <gilir> ok, I'll make a summarize of the options for thi sissue
[21:01] <Yorvyk> I think a bit of benchmarking is needed
[21:01] <anliot> no we don't need benchmarking
[21:01] <MrChrisDruif> And which is more supported xclip vs parcellite
[21:01] <anliot> its 2-5 megs of memory
[21:01] <gilir> we can decide what to do before the next meeting, or during the meeting
[21:01] <anliot> so the --daemon = 2-5 megs of memory
[21:01] <anliot> period
[21:02] <gilir> Yorvyk, and any benchmarking / testing will be appreciate :)
[21:02] <wxl> gilir: sounds good. make an action and move on ;)
[21:02] <Yorvyk> OK
[21:02] <gilir> #action gilir to summarize and document clipboard issue on the mailing list
[21:02] <meetingology> ACTION: gilir to summarize and document clipboard issue on the mailing list
[21:03]  * MrChrisDruif is off again
[21:03] <gilir> the meeting should be finished now :/
[21:03] <wxl> ok </stupid-clipboard-manager-topic> ;)
[21:03] <Unit193> 16:03
[21:03] <MrChrisDruif> See y'all later
[21:03] <wxl> what?
[21:03] <wxl> there's more to do
[21:03] <gilir> Yorvyk, can we move your other item to next meeting ?
[21:03] <wxl> i guess we'll skip it eh
[21:03] <wxl> Yorvyk, StephenSmally and me you mean gilir :D
[21:03] <Yorvyk> Yes, as I have to go very soon anyway
[21:03] <gilir> StephenSmally, we can look at lsc release tomorow evening ?
[21:04] <StephenSmally> yep
[21:04] <rafaellaguna> ok, leaving. Good night, boys
[21:04] <Yorvyk> Bye all.
[21:04] <gilir> ok, thanks everyones :)
[21:04] <wxl> oh well
[21:04] <gilir> #endmeeting
[21:04] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb  8 21:04:54 2012 UTC.
[21:04] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-20.02.moin.txt
[21:04] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-08-20.02.html
[21:04] <leszek> cu n8
[21:05] <StephenSmally> bye
[21:06] <gilir> wxl, sorry, didn't see your last item :/
[21:06] <gilir> wxl, do you open a bug report about it ?