MartijnVdSgord: \o/ gstreamer04:58
=== Myrtti is now known as Guest12769
=== Myrtti_ is now known as Myrtti
Mavrick95can anyone explain me how i can rename/delete the /etc/x11/xorg.file at the root console?06:44
* popey scrolls back07:24
* popey quite likes the idea of the screenshot tool not popping up a dialog07:24
AlanBellwell it would be OK to not pop up a dialog if it informed you where the picture was. Or put it on the clipboard07:26
TheOpenSourcererMorning earthlings07:26
popeyyeah, a notification bubble popping up with the name of the file that had been saved would be good07:28
popeybut thats flawed also07:28
popeyif you want to take a succession of pictures you'd end up with notifications for the previous image in them07:28
popeyi dont care much i use shutter instead, it's way better than gnome screenshot07:29
TheOpenSourcererLat night my son aked for a launcher thing for Minecraft on his 11.10 desktop. Jeez, that's a right palaver. Why can't I just right click on the launcher and select "Create Launcher" ffs.07:29
popeyTheOpenSourcerer: java is why07:34
popeywell, actually minecraft packaging is why07:34
popeybecause you dont have a minecraft package that contains a desktop file07:34
AlanBellneither sounds convincing to me07:34
TheOpenSourcererWhat. I can right click on my desktop in 10.10 and create a lanucher. What I enter in the command string is entirely up to me.07:35
TheOpenSourcererExactly. I read that. I refer back to my original question. Why is this so hard? If they want Unity for "normal/average users" this kind of thing just sucks07:38
TheOpenSourcererI have several launchers for the same app - with various switches for IP domains or whatnot. Having to jump through cli hoops to do it just seems like a total regression.07:39
TheOpenSourcererThat example also creates a "global" launcher if i am not mistaken. That is not what my son wants. He's the only minecraft user on that machine and the minecraft jar is in his ~/bin07:41
popeyyou're not telling me something I don't know ☺07:42
popeybug 70500707:42
lubotu3Launchpad bug 705007 in unity "Unity has no method to maintain properties of launchers" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/70500707:42
TheOpenSourcererBlimey - A year old.07:43
AlanBellso we conclude from this that the design team don't play minecraft07:44
AlanBellor play it on a mac :)07:44
TheOpenSourcererMan that sucks.07:45
* czajkowski waves at popey morning :D07:49
MooDoomorning all08:00
TheOpenSourcererOn Fusion: "... one gram of deuterium will provide 144 billion Joules of energy when it  is completely burned into helium. One gram of benzene, a common  hydrocarbon, releases just 48kJ when oxidized (burned in the normal  sense)."08:04
diploMorning all08:05
TheOpenSourcererMorning diplo08:05
TheOpenSourcererDid you get OpenERP running?08:05
diploNope, heh in a rush last night i forgot to take my work laptop home :/08:06
diploMy old beast at home isn't up to vm's :/08:06
diploReally must get back my PC from my parents at some point08:06
diploGoing to make a start right now08:06
diploCan't get my fingers warm this morning :(08:09
AlanBelldoes documentation for bamf exist outside of canonical I wonder08:10
MooDoomorning all08:12
TheOpenSourcererThis is funny, if it wasn't so sad... The three patents that MS are suing B&N for and one of the ones that Amazon pays a license for. Trivial, not novel or innovative.08:13
TheOpenSourcerer"Microsoft is, presumably, putting some of its best patents forward in the case..." Oh dear.08:17
brobostigongood morning everyone.08:18
TheOpenSourcerermorning brobostigon08:18
brobostigonmorning TheOpenSourcerer08:19
DJonesMorning all08:21
brobostigonmorning DJones08:21
brobostigonweird, bitlbee just reset itself, and killed one of my accounts.08:23
diploTheOpenSourcerer, I really hope it knocks some of these stupid patents on the head i really do08:24
diploI wonder if it will invalidate all the existing patent agreements with the likes of Samsung etc08:24
diploNot seen that mentioned on any articles i've read so far08:24
TheOpenSourcererIf B&N do win and prove that MS patents are hogwash, then Samsung, LG et al might be feeling a little "peeved"08:25
daubersHeh, if the patent is invalidated, do you think the others will sue MS for extortion?08:25
TheOpenSourcererI doubt it would invalidate as they were pure commercial agreements made behind closed-doors.08:25
AlanBelldoubt it08:26
TheOpenSourcererdaubers: That is a very happy thought but as AlanBell says, I would doubt it. They have business that replies on MS as well as Andriod.08:26
TheOpenSourcererkeyboard failure08:27
AlanBellI would think at renegotiation time they might end up paying less08:27
TheOpenSourcererThere might be some [ahem] harsh words said behind those doors.08:27
diploI guess MS have been doing this for years now and have a lot of tied up in very strict clauses etc08:27
AlanBellbut these are complicated "big money" deals all about moving money around balance sheets and avoiding taxes08:27
diplo10.04 nearly installed \o/08:28
AlanBell"we must bring down our marketing costs, but we don't care what we spend on licensing costs"08:28
AlanBellso lets pay a licensing cost to Microsoft and Microsoft can fund all our marketing activities08:28
AlanBellprobably some currency shuffling involved too08:29
AlanBelllets pay licensing cost in Yen in the far east and Dollars come out in America08:30
AlanBellor vice versa08:30
* daubers wonders if the little tool shop in tadley will have a set of vernier calipers08:33
TheOpenSourcererGreat video - fight between Cannon and Nikon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTVfFmENgPU (Funny)08:34
diploLets see how good this tutorial is now :)08:36
* TheOpenSourcerer trembles waiting for diplo's review...08:39
diploTried with Postgres9 TheOpenSourcerer ?08:40
diploNever used postgres but believe 9 has lot's of improvements / speed08:40
TheOpenSourcererDunno - what's the packaged version in 10.04? 8?08:40
TheOpenSourcererTBH I never even looked at the version number of Postgres.08:41
diployeah, think it said 8.4808:41
diploWell, this is worth it just to get me to look at postgres08:41
brobostigoni need to plan, to upgrade my vps, from lts to lts, once 12.04 is release.08:42
daubersWe're looking at migrating from mysql to postgres :(08:42
diploI've debated holding ordering my VPS till 12.04 comes out08:42
diploYou read about Ubuntu moving to MariaDB daubers ?08:42
diploWell the suggestion08:42
brobostigoni use SQLite on my vps, works well, and is nice and light, and resource friendly.08:42
AlanBelldiplo: runs fine on postgresql-9.108:42
daubersdiplo: That's the main reason we're looking at it08:42
daubersbrobostigon: No good for multiple applications accessing a DB though08:43
brobostigondaubers: ah, didnt know that, interesting.08:44
AlanBelldiplo: if you are using openerp and looking at postgres you are doing something wrong :)08:44
knightwisehey brobostigon AlanBell , and the rest.08:44
knightwisegood morning to ya08:44
diploheh AlanBell, I always want to look at products I'm going to use.. want to understand how to fix something if it goes wrong08:44
brobostigonmorning knightwise08:45
AlanBellyeah, I am aware of one project that went very very wrong because a postgres "expert" went under the openerp API and started tinkering with tables directly08:45
diploOh not tinkering for me, more administering like how to run the equivalent of mysqldump etc08:47
brobostigoni only have drupal using sqlite, so should be ok,08:47
AlanBellthat is fine then :) and openERP does use the database quite sensibly I think (takes advantage of atomic transactions etc)08:47
TheOpenSourcererdiplo: Sorry - pg_dump and pg_dumpall08:48
TheOpenSourcererPostgres is a little odd in that it typically has no "root" user.08:49
TheOpenSourcererYou su to the postrges user and do most things from the cli08:49
diploWell I'm at home in cli so that's good :)08:52
diploSeems I've grabbed different version of openerp than your notes, different layout08:53
TheOpenSourcererThe docs are pretty good - google usually shows me the right way ;-)08:53
* diplo checks08:53
AlanBellthere is phppgadmin and phadmin3 but I have not really used them beyond firing them up and deciding that I didn't need to know about the tables08:53
TheOpenSourcererdiplo: Yes.08:53
TheOpenSourcerer6.1 is different.08:53
TheOpenSourcererSee my comments from last night. No separate web client08:53
TheOpenSourcererno need to install second init scripts etc.08:53
TheOpenSourcererweb interface listens on :806908:54
TheOpenSourcererby default08:54
bigcalmGood morning peeps08:55
diploI don't have a bin directory etc, that was the biggest difference so far.. going through your example conf to see what else may need to change08:57
TheOpenSourcererAs I also said last night ignore my conf scripts. ;-)08:58
diploAh, heh i did just scroll up and read08:58
diploBut missed that08:58
mrevellGuten morgen!09:04
gordthis might be my favourite headline of the year http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9066337/CCTV-police-officer-chased-himself-after-being-mistaken-for-burglar.html09:12
dwatkinshaha oops09:13
dwatkins"he's behind you!" and other pantomime-esque comments...09:14
AlanBelllooks like the naked atlantic pedalo crossing record is still up for grabs http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-1692984009:16
BigRedSAnyone know of something wiki-like that would work for simple network diagrams?09:20
BigRedSJust sticking ASCII-art into mediawiki's not quite ideal :)09:20
bigcalmI've been having great fun with dia09:21
bigcalmNot wiki like, but useful09:21
BigRedSyeah, we've tried that, but basically these need to be as quick adn easy and simple as possible to update else we just end up with outdated diagrams09:22
BigRedSso manual uploading etc. doesn't cut it09:23
dwatkinsBigRedS: I've not used it, but LucidChart appears to be free for up to 2 concurrent users09:24
popeyBigRedS: http://www.asciiflow.com/09:26
BigRedSpopey: oh! I've not seen that before!09:26
bigcalmThat is very cool09:29
BigRedSdwatkins: ah, that looks a bit less fun but a bit mroe useful also :) Ta09:33
dwatkinsBigRedS: yeah, I really like popey's link, it solves the problem in a fun way too09:36
oimoni don't think i'll see a better website today than that one09:56
bigcalmoimon: have you not seen zombo.com ?09:59
TheAshManHi, how do I completely remove mysql including all related info on users etc..?09:59
MooDooTheAshMan: http://stuffthatspins.com/2011/01/08/ubuntu-10-x-completely-remove-and-clean-mysql-installation/ this help?10:02
JamesTaitGood morning all! :D10:09
TheOpenSourcererA new world's hottest chilli. >2million scoville (That is insanely hot)10:12
bigcalmI'm sure it's a lovely plant to grow. But what's the point in trying to make the hottest chilli if the human body can't cope with it?10:13
TheOpenSourcererSome people can :-D10:14
* bigcalm shakes his head :P10:15
TheAshManMooDoo: No, I tried that, but after reinstalling, the mysql.user table still contained all the users I previously created.10:16
kirrusbigcalm: afaik, indians think we're all wimps for our lack of chilli-eating ability10:17
popeyI'd probably 'drop databases' before uninstalling10:18
TheAshManpopey: Including the mysql and info... DB's?10:19
bigcalmpopey: if the actual database directories are removed, there's no need10:20
popeybigcalm: they arent tho10:21
popeyunless you manually delete them, guess it doesnt make much difference either way10:21
bigcalmI see10:22
bigcalmOne can manually remove them10:22
TheAshManwhere are the DB's located?10:22
bigcalmUninstall mysql server and client then use locate to find anything mysql10:22
bigcalmTheAshMan: /var/lib/mysql10:23
TheAshManThanks bigcalm10:30
zleapmy shutdwn icon has gone from my panel10:31
TheAshManright click the panel and select 'Add To Panel' Should be able to find the option in there10:31
zleapi can't right click using unity10:31
TheAshManat least you used to be able to :/10:31
TheAshManeyah, just noticed. Sorry, my bad10:32
zleapit used to have my user name as a click point too,  so i could click on that and change users, shut down etc10:32
zleapi wonder if thius is related to the fact that ubuntu-desktop got removed, i was unable to log inproperly as there was no actual desktop environment to boot into10:33
popeyzleap: open a terminal10:35
popeyzleap: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^10:35
popeyand look at what gets reinstalled10:35
popeypaste the content of the terminal to the pastebin10:35
zleaplooks like i am already upto date10:37
popeyyou missed the ^ off the end10:38
popeydo it again and add the ^ to the end and pastebin that please10:38
zleapok sorry about that10:39
popeythere we go10:42
popeyyou're missing some bits that are critical to the indicator area10:42
zleapi know,  however when i scroll back it stops so i pasted everything10:42
popeyjust press enter10:42
popeyto install the missing bits10:42
popeyline 507 and 50810:43
popeythats what I'm talking about whats missing10:43
popeynot the scrollback10:43
zleapinstalling now10:44
popeyyou might need to logout/in after10:44
zleapmay restart then as my log out button is missing10:45
zleapbut as it seems to be installing new kernel stuff then that should be ok10:45
zleappopey, working now,  thanks10:49
bigcalmpopey: everybody you tell always misses off the ^. Are we carrot blind?10:52
* BigRedS groans10:53
popeyneed moar carrots10:53
daubersIs there some kind of CC/GPL type licence for open hardware projects?10:57
gordonjcpdaubers: yes10:57
daubersgordonjcp: What's it called?10:58
gordyou need MORE? geez!10:58
* daubers passes gord some cake10:58
bigcalmhttp://www.tapr.org/OHL ?10:59
daubersbigcalm: Yeah, having a read of that now10:59
daubersta :)10:59
gordonjcpyeah, I was just about to post that10:59
gordonjcpthe TAPR OHL is probably the longest running11:00
daubersHnmmmm, CERN have one too11:00
danfishdaubers: have you seen http://solderpad.com/11:00
daubersdanfish: No....11:01
gordonjcpoh yeah, Andrew Back's thing ;-)11:01
davmor2morning all11:01
davmor2czajkowski: prod, morning you happy hippy :D11:02
MooDoomornig davmor2 czajkowski oh and congrats11:03
* daubers reads moar legalese11:04
davmor2MooDoo: here have a coffee11:04
* bigcalm tries to get his head around 3des without much luck11:04
davmor2bigcalm: around what now!11:05
MooDoodavmor2: thanks11:06
davmor2MooDoo: you need to look at http://wakingupnow.com/blog/dolly-partons-other-voice when you can :)11:06
gorddavmor2, bigcalm - no time for trip south tomorrow, two weeks time?11:06
davmor2gord: yeap11:06
davmor2gord: anyone would think it was like feature freeze next week or something11:06
bigcalmClient has a VB.NET script that encrypts and decrypts messages using 3des. I need to replicate this in PHP. Not having a grand time so far11:07
bigcalmgord: you said it would be touch and go. Understandable11:07
bigcalmdavmor2: we're a few days into February and I'm still lacking ICS on my Xoom. What gives? :P11:09
gordcool, my IDE crashes if i use } - not like i need that character or anything11:10
popeyhas anyone here got the newer HP Microserver? Not the N36L?11:10
gordwhen people say that LTS dev releases are relatively stable, they reeeeeeeally are only talking about main ;)11:11
davmor2bigcalm: it's motorola I've never known them release to schedule where did you get this bazaar notion that it would be feburary :D11:11
bigcalmdavmor2: you!11:11
davmor2bigcalm: all I said was that the xoom would be getting ICS and pointed you at the news on the T'interweb :P11:12
daubersgord: Is there some magic I can do to change how hard I have to push to the left to get the unity bar to appear?11:12
gorddaubers, ccsm somewhere11:12
davmor2bigcalm: I didn't say when11:12
daubersgord: Ta :)11:12
davmor2gord: use a better IDE?  geany and nano ftw11:12
bigcalmI'm really happy with NetBeans11:13
bigcalmMy Eclipse days are far behind me now11:13
diploI like netbeans, I just wish it wasn't such a hugry soab11:13
bigcalmIt isn't, compared to Eclipse11:14
gordonjcpI installed eclipse because it seems that Android development is heavily tied into it11:14
gordonjcpbut it won't run on my PC11:14
bigcalmMind, I did download the PHP only instance11:14
gordonjcpand it's too hard to use anyway11:14
oimonbigcalm: no i hadn't seen that site either, but popeys site is better :D11:18
bigcalmYou can do anything on zombo.com11:20
MooDoohow are you today davmor2 ?11:20
czajkowskiMooDoo: ello11:23
czajkowskidavmor2: oi I'm no hippy!11:23
MooDoohello czajkowski congrats on the job :)11:23
davmor2MooDoo: I'm good dude, you?11:23
czajkowskithank you :-)11:23
MooDoodavmor2: meh! and czajkowski you're welcome, dead chuffed for you11:25
davmor2czajkowski: Long hair and flowing dresses if ever there was a hippy it's you :P, and you're happy and happy and hippy went together so <blows_raspberries> :P </blows_raspberries>11:25
MooDoodavmor2: czajkowski = one stunning hippy i think you'll find :)11:27
davmor2MooDoo: but the keyword there is still hippy ;)11:27
czajkowskiye lot are nutters11:29
MooDooczajkowski: nah we're just smitten with your wonderous hippyesk beauty :)11:29
gordi agree with czajkowski11:34
* bigcalm semi-regrets joining ##php11:52
bigcalmNot used to such a busy channel11:52
diploheh bigcalm that's why i normally ask for help outside of there :)11:53
bigcalmdiplo: I wasn't getting anywhere with google and here so thought I'd try there11:54
bigcalmWill try harder next time (pestering here that is)11:54
diploThis still for the 3des thing ?11:54
diploNever played myself I'm afraid11:54
gordonjcpbigcalm: what about it?11:55
bigcalmThe client has given me the password, but not the key or iv. Apparently I am able to derive those myself. Trying to understand VB.NET is a pain11:55
diploUsing mcrypt ?11:55
bigcalmVB.NET script I need to turn into PHP: http://www.vb-helper.com/howto_net_des_file.html11:58
bigcalmUsing this as a base: http://mishu666.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/problem-and-solve-of-3des-incompatibilities-with-nets-tripledescryptoserviceprovider/11:58
bigcalmdiplo: indeed, except that I don't have any keys. This is why I'm trying to reverse engineer the vb.net script11:59
bigcalm1st step was to realise that mcrypt wasn't installed on my dev server ;)11:59
diploGreat fun, guessing the reason is to put data available on a intranet?12:00
davmor2hey mrevell  where is the best place to ask some /lp/~user/+junk - bzr questions?12:00
bigcalmGah! Thunderbird just popped up a reminder for tomorrow's work place day. Except I thought it meant it was today12:00
* bigcalm hits dismiss with frustration12:00
mrevelldavmor2, #launchpad -- what's your question?12:00
davmor2mrevell: I am using the whole system for syncing and publicising my testscripts whoever it doesn't seem to be syncing all the image changes :(12:02
czajkowskidavmor2: you broke it12:02
davmor2however even12:02
mrevelldavmor2, Syncing from where? Do you have a link to the branch where this is happening?12:03
davmor2mrevell: local pc pushes to :parent with the changes however the changes aren't in the lp folder, link is lp:~davmor2/+junk/testscripts  the free_app_install folder has the code changes but not the new images that the code relies on :(12:05
mrevelldavmor2, Let's move this to #launchpad12:06
ali1234i made a video that is so long that totem thinks it is -52:-1312:11
ali1234and the file is 1mb12:11
ali1234think i should upload it to youtube?12:11
ali1234totem seems to overflow at about 264 hours12:12
zleapwhat has happened to bluefish in 10.1012:25
zleapsorry 11.1012:25
zleapok found it,  got removed during upgrade12:26
mattt_afternoon afternoon12:41
=== mattt_ is now known as mattt
ali1234the "short" version just finished processing :)12:42
czajkowskigord: popey is this normal. when applications are at max it goes behind the launcher. http://twitpic.com/8h810a/full12:48
popeyhave you logged out / in since you updated the machine?12:49
oimonjust seen a female student wearing tiny shorts outside. doesn't she know it's subzero temperatures?12:52
diplooimon, It's fashion, weather doesn't come in to it!12:52
czajkowskipopey: this morning nope12:52
popeyczajkowski: update and then logout/in12:53
daubersoimon: Since you where watching her, she may have achieved her aim?12:53
oimondiplo: are blue legs fashionable?12:53
diploThere was a TV doc on exactly stuff like that recently, some girls out in liverpool with next to nothing on and asked about why there were like that at -5+ temps12:53
diploAnd they basically said looks were more important than keeping warm12:53
daubersah ha!12:53
oimonit's sports afternoon on wednesdays , so i guess she was going to play netball or something...but...trackkie bottoms?12:54
daubersgord: There's an option to change the sensitivity of the left push in the appearences thing now \o/ Much easier to get too12:54
zleapdiplo, I am sure children / young people can't feel the cold in the same way adults do,12:57
czajkowskipopey: sweet that fixed it12:59
czajkowskialso whats with the new password login box, it's TINY, and you dont know if your cursor is in it13:00
oimoni'm beginning to see that unity is so-called because the options available to the user are converging on "one-way" of doing things13:00
gordonjcpoimon: it's t-shirt weather here, where are you?13:01
oimongordonjcp: under a blanket in my office13:01
diploheh very true zleap, also since losing about 5 stone I now feel the cold everywhere :(13:03
diplogordonjcp, near bath and it's still -2 ish here13:03
gordonjcpdiplo: this is one of the reasons I don't really want to lose any weight13:03
diploAnd i think oimon is near reading13:03
gordonjcpMETAR EGPF 081250Z 12004KT 080V170 CAVOK 01/M03 Q103913:03
diploSo south :)13:03
oimondiplo: e london right now13:03
gordonjcp1C, -3 dew point13:03
gordonjcpbright and sunny13:04
diploIf there wasn't a wind, I'd be fine but that wind chill is the killer13:04
oimonto be fair, nowhere in britain is 'tiny shorts weather'13:04
* gordonjcp has been working 270' above ground level most of the morning, at just about the highest point in Glasgow13:10
diploWell you have given away why you don't feel cold, well know fact Glaswegians don't feel it :D13:11
popeyczajkowski: bug i expect, just noticed myself13:11
diploMy gran is from there, never has heating on at home :(13:12
davmor2czajkowski: the launcher thing is gords fault,  and don't believe him when he denies it fanatically ;)13:14
BigRedSanyone got any favourite am-i-on-any-spam-blacklist sites?13:15
gordonjcpdiplo: I'm not a Glaswegian13:15
diploOh :$13:16
shaunolooking for a http proxy that'll keep a complete copy of everything that passes; any suggestions?  (debugging embedded devices, not stalking)13:29
TheOpenSourcerershauno: wireshark ;-)13:29
shaunoheh, that's a pain in the rear to parse. trying to pull xml that's being posted to the server13:30
daubersshauno: Will squid not do that?13:33
BigRedSew. squid.13:34
BigRedSI did have a nifty thing that, despite being written in java, was quite good for getting json out of the traffic. I can't remember what it was, though13:35
shaunotrying to figure out if squid will do it atm.  the documentation (and config) is fairly monstrous for atypical setups :/13:35
shaunoI love that we're trying to reverse-engineer our own devices because it's easier than getting documentation from bangalore :/14:19
Myrttishauno: http://mitmproxy.org/ ?14:23
* popey tickles gord with hud14:24
shaunoMyrtti: that looks like a damned fine start, thanks14:30
ali1234shauno: wrieshark -> "follow tcp stream"14:33
ali1234i do it all the time to rip video from the bbc14:33
ali1234er, i mean, i never do that14:33
ali1234time to try out gnome-shell again14:39
occupy64khave been using gnome shell for quite a while now14:40
ali1234i see this is still hilariously bad, but i'm hoping to get MGSE installed and maybe that will fix it14:40
BigRedSit's not changed appreciably recently as far as I can tell14:40
BigRedSI am using Debian's, though14:40
ali1234why does the taskbar thing at the top only show the current application?14:41
BigRedSbecause the point of that taskbar at the top is simply to use up excess vertical pixels14:42
ali1234lol two onscreen keyboards.14:42
ali1234onboard *and* the gnome one (which is miles better than onboard btw)14:43
ali1234the indicator menus are very racy14:44
ali1234in the sense that they suffer from race conditions and do things you don't expect them to14:44
ali1234whats that?14:45
ali1234"This extension is incompatible with your version of GNOME."14:45
occupy64kOne of the top issues with gnome shell is the lack of a shutdown option by default14:46
ali1234i never shut down this machine14:46
ali1234i won't be able to use this unless they fix the menus though14:46
occupy64kwhat's up with the menus?14:47
ali1234when i click on say the accessability menu it activates high contrast mode 50% of the time14:47
ali1234because the menus are too slow14:48
ali1234and i've already moved the mouse down over the first item before it processes the mouse up14:48
BigRedSoccupy64k: that can't be one of the top issues!14:49
occupy64kMy machine is pretty old, but the response to clicking on the accessibility menu seems fast14:49
BigRedSit's pretty high on the daft scale, but there's much more annoying things than just having to hold down alt14:49
ali1234maybe your machine isn't under heavy load most of the time like mine is14:49
occupy64kWell there was a big hoo-haar about it when gnome shell was released14:49
occupy64kprobably not14:49
BigRedSyeah, I think that's more its daftness than its annoyance14:49
ali1234i see this has the same "shell game" effect as unity when trying to switch between similar windows14:50
ali1234erm... how do i minimize windows?14:51
occupy64kmost of the time you don't need to14:52
occupy64kbut you can right click on the title14:52
BigRedSali1234: install gnome-tweak-tool and you can get the buttons back14:52
ali1234what makes you think that most of the time i don't need to?14:52
ali1234how else am i supposed to access the windows behind a window?14:52
occupy64kI never really use minimize in gnome shell14:52
daubersali1234: You're supposed to have 1 window per workspace (apparently)14:52
BigRedSsomeone's made a blog post describing how to unbreak most of the silly things in gnome-shell14:53
occupy64ksuper key14:53
BigRedSoccupy64k: yeah, but you're probably not ali123414:53
occupy64kit's just a different kind of UI, so takes some adjustment14:53
BigRedSbut, yes, one founding concept of gnome3 does seem to be intentionally mistaking workspaces for windows14:53
BigRedSer, gnome-shell14:53
occupy64knot necessarily.  I often have multiple windows per workspace14:54
occupy64kbut just use the super key or alt tab to switch14:54
BigRedSali1234: http://piecesoflint.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/how-to-tweak-gnome-3-to-your-needs/ is what I do whenever I install gnome-shell now14:54
BigRedSoccupy64k: yeah, I know you can. But this disappearing workspaces thing, for example, must break workspaces for so many people14:55
BigRedSI've tried to get the hang of it and I can't work out how I'm supposed to use them when they're never where I left them14:55
occupy64kyou mean if you remove all windows, the workspace disappears?14:56
BigRedSso when I close my terminal on #1, suddenly my web stuff is on #1 not #2, mail on #2 not #3 etc.14:57
occupy64kThere might be some option for fixed workspaces, but I havn't used it14:57
BigRedSso I actually need to look at these workspaces as I scroll through them, else I overshoot14:57
BigRedSthere's an extension for it14:57
BigRedSbut I don't understand why that would ever be desired behaviour14:58
occupy64kI guess that the habit for fixed workspaces is historical14:58
BigRedSI suspect it's for good reason, too14:59
ali1234how do i get a menu?15:00
ali1234how do i get rid of the dash?15:00
occupy64kI think the dash is fixed15:01
occupy64krather like Unity15:01
ali1234so any time i hit the top left corner i'm going to get chucked into a confusing ugly mess?15:01
ali1234can i at least prevent it from ever being shown somehow?15:01
ali1234i keep accidentally closing firefox because that's the only way to get back to the windows behind it :(15:03
occupy64kjust hit super key then select the window15:03
ali1234for each window? no, that will take ages15:04
occupy64kIt depends how many windows there are, I suppose15:04
ali1234i only need one of them, but they all look identical15:05
occupy64koh sometimes I have more than that15:05
ali1234so there is no way to tell which one is the one i want based on the dash15:05
occupy64kare you trying to create multiple terminals?15:05
occupy64kok, for that I just use Terminator15:05
occupy64kit's much easier than multiple windows15:06
ali1234and multiple text editor windows as well15:06
ali1234can you undock windows from terminator?15:06
ali1234rearrange them?15:06
occupy64kI think so15:06
* hamitron is "liking" KDE15:06
ali1234what if i want to temporarily maximise one of them?15:06
dutchieali1234: yep15:07
ali1234can i do it without learning obscure keyboard shortcust which don't work in any other programs?15:07
dutchieyou can do it using a remappable keyboard shortcut15:07
occupy64kI think the shorcuts are definable15:08
occupy64kyou can also have tabs15:08
ali1234tabs are no use, i need to see several terminals at the same time and move them around between two monitors arbitrarily15:09
dutchieyou can split/maximise from the right-click context menu also15:09
hamitronsounds to me like it can work, if you aren't stuck to "old ways"15:09
occupy64kit's a different kind of UI15:09
* hamitron unfortunately likes old ways15:10
BigRedSI got used to it relatively quickly15:10
ali1234KDE has a lot going for it, mainly it has a sensible window list15:10
BigRedShad a go on cinnamon at fosdem and it felt a lot like 200215:10
ali1234i would use it if it wasn't so resource heavy, ugly, and crashy15:10
hamitronwell, I only used KDE, because it was default and I haven't used it since 2.015:10
hamitroncrashy and resource heavy?15:11
ali1234yes. all those gradients don't render themselves15:11
hamitronnot crashed on me yet, and as light as Gnome 215:11
ali1234you mean gnome 2 and compiz right?15:12
ali1234kwin compositing doesn't even work on my computer15:12
ali1234i get corrupted graphics after about an hour15:12
ali1234then it crashes15:12
occupy64kyou can maximize and restore for temporary full screen terminals in Terminator15:12
hamitronI won't be using it long term.... just using it, so i can say I have :)15:13
ali1234ok, now i've installed some extensions, how do i enable them?15:14
occupy64kI don't think you need to enable them15:14
ali1234i think i need to restart it15:14
ali1234nope, that did nothing15:15
ali1234ah now they appear in gnome-tweak-tool15:15
ali1234ah there we go15:16
ali1234now i have a bottom panel and a window list15:16
ali1234unfortunately no multi monitor support15:16
occupy64kI only have one monitor :-(15:16
bigcalmxfce will be with me for a while longer I think15:16
ali1234well that's a deal breaker15:16
ali1234back to unity then i guess15:17
hamitronxfce and lxde I like15:17
hamitronfluxbox too15:17
hamitronbut depends on my mood15:17
BigRedSno multi-monitor support? Works for me15:17
BigRedSthe old fashioned way - just configure it in the screens bit of system settings15:17
BigRedSWhat might annoy you, though, is that the secondary monitor doesn't move with teh workspaces15:18
BigRedSso if you stick something on the secondary montiro in workspace one and go to workspace 2, the primary montor moves to workspace2 and the secondary doesn't change15:18
BigRedSI'm still trying to work out if that's what I want it to do15:18
ali1234unity 2d multimonitor is still broken too15:21
occupy64kI expect that games like FlightGear would look good across multiple monitors15:27
ali1234they do, but only if you can get the window manager to cooperate15:33
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
ali1234you know what boggles my mind most about unity?16:03
ali1234imagine you have a lot of windows open16:03
ali1234and you click on the firefox launcher16:03
ali1234but it doesn't give you the firefox window that you wanted16:04
ali1234at this point you are expected to repeat the action which just failed to give you the result you wanted16:04
ali1234how is that logical or useful?16:04
ali1234if insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results then unity is designed for people who are insane16:05
BigRedSyeah, the alt-tab behaviour is mostly the bit that makes me wonder if anything else is really supposed to make sense16:10
ali1234the alt-tab in unity is probably the best thing about it16:10
BigRedSwhat? Oh, this is gnome3 you're on about?16:10
ali1234unfortunately i don't use alt-tab or any keyboard shortcuts for window management16:10
BigRedShah, clearly it does work for somebody, then16:11
ali1234yeah, basically unity alt-tab = good for people who don't use alt-tab :)16:11
BigRedSah yeah, that'd do it :)16:11
ali1234but i like how you can go in to each application group16:11
ali1234see unity's alt-tab is the only window management method it has that is consistent16:12
ali1234everything else has totally unpredictable result16:12
* czajkowski hugs davmor2 16:13
BigRedSyou can go into groups in gnome shell. I do it with the arrow keys, but I suspect th emouse works, too16:13
ali1234i demand that my graphical user interfaces are entirely mouse driven16:13
ali1234if i wanted to use the keyboard i'd be using a shell window16:14
ali1234and i often am16:14
* davmor2 prods the happy hippy czajkowski with a big stick16:14
BigRedSI'm amazed that I've agreed with you so much this far, then :)16:14
ali1234but i like to be able to rearrange my shell windows with the mouse, not obscure keyboard shortcuts16:14
BigRedSi dislike unity because of how inoperable it is without a mouse16:14
bigcalmDoes 'Nothing' in VB.NET mean the same as 'null' in PHP?16:15
ali1234if i am using a UI and you make me look down at the keyboard to press alt-tab, that slows me right now16:15
ali1234well unity is unusable whether you use mouse or keyboard basically16:15
BigRedSYeah, I get the same when I'm mid-work and need to fund the mouse16:15
BigRedShaha, fair enough16:15
ali1234that's what unity is about: it is a great leveller16:15
ali1234it is equally hard to use for newbs and professional16:15
ali1234you have to use both keyboard and mouse to be fast with unity16:16
ali1234and it also helps if you never open more than 3 windows16:17
BigRedSi think i decided it sort-of worked if I only had one workspace16:17
ali1234yes, that's because in unity there is no difference at all between a window on another workspace and a window that is minimized16:17
BigRedSin that I could relatively reliably find the window I wanted16:17
BigRedSyeah, there seems to be two classes of window - "this one" and "the rest of them"16:18
ali1234either way it will show in the launcher, and either wway clicking it will reveal a load of other windows you don't want, and obscure all the windows you had before, which is utterly confusing16:18
BigRedSand I don't really want "this one" in my alt-tab16:18
BigRedSoh yeah, I tried the launcher buttons for a bit16:18
ali1234i have learned to always middle click them now16:19
ali1234left clicking them is just asking for about 50 windows to pop up and cover the whole screen16:19
BigRedSwhat does middle-click do?16:19
ali1234opens a new one of whatever it is16:19
ali1234ie what you'd expect left click to do16:19
ali1234every day i have to close about 50 firefox and terminals though16:20
ali1234because i lose track of them and just open new ones16:20
ali1234because it's less painful than window management in unity16:20
ali1234a typical situation is i get an email saying "fix this thing"16:21
ali1234so i try to open a shell to fix it16:21
ali1234that takes me to another workspace where i already had a shell16:21
ali1234then i've lost the email16:21
ali1234so i have to go back to the email, and this time middle click the launcher16:21
ali1234so basically i've learned never to left click launchers and just go directly to the last step16:22
BigRedSyeah, I'd have just stopped using unity16:22
ali1234i tried but everything else is worse16:22
BigRedSI've only tried to use it on a machine where I need to do any work once, and after about five minutes I just installed gnome316:22
ali1234gnome-shell is the worst of the bunch16:23
AlanBellgnome seem to be on stronger stuff than the Canonical design team at the moment, they just removed the lovely dialog with a preview you get when you take a screenshot16:23
AlanBellit now just dumps a timestamped file in ~/pictures16:23
ali1234to be fair that dialog does need a lot of work16:23
ali1234it's pretty useless as is16:24
ali1234i bet they'll replace it with something better soonish16:24
AlanBellit pops up, shows me the screenshot, I can then copy and paste it into something, or save it somewhere I want it16:24
ali1234it needs to support send-to/open-with/xdg-open or whatever16:24
BigRedSI think both teams are utterly mad16:25
ali1234yep, no disagreement on that one16:25
gordi'd like to be able to crop in that dialog, that would be neat16:25
gordi'm always cropping screenshots16:25
ali1234yeah that too16:25
BigRedSthat said, I've not looked for any unity analog for the gnome shell extensions I've installed16:25
AlanBellit would be nice16:25
BigRedSdidn't one of them have a way of doing that? Hit print screen, then draw on it what you wanted and then hit save16:26
BigRedSmaybe kde. Sure it was a linuxy thing16:26
gordi should just add cropping support to eye of gnome someday, thats 99% of what i have to open gimp for16:27
ali1234KDE screenshot probably reuses a whole paint program widget. that's how KDE works16:31
ali1234there's only 1 widget and it does everything16:31
popeyoi aquarius16:35
popeyif i right click a file and publish to u1, i get a notify telling me the url16:35
popeyhow am I supposed to use that url given i cant click notifications?16:35
ali1234quickly hit printscreen16:35
ali1234oh wait that doesn't work any more16:35
popeyi can get the url by going to the website one.ubuntu.com and finding the file and then clicking more then copy and paste the url, but thats long winded and rubbish16:36
davmor2popey: right click on the folder again, select copy url16:36
davmor2then paste16:36
popeyits a file16:36
popeynot a folder16:36
davmor2same thing16:36
popeythats odd, that option was _not_ there earlier16:37
davmor2popey: it isn't till it is on u1 and made published16:37
daubersThe devs internal popey is working faster than the real popey /o\16:37
bigcalmAww, I was hoping that somebody was monitoring this channel and making changes based on conversations16:39
ali1234hmm i have not tried razor-qt yet16:39
aquariuspopey, ya?16:40
popeymake u1 faster16:40
czajkowskiwow that is a big picutre of ian http://www.canonical.com/about-canonical16:40
aquariuspopey, see davmor's comment.16:40
popeysee my comment ☺16:40
aquariusonce you've had the notification, the menu item to get the url should be available.16:40
czajkowskiaquarius: warmed up yet16:40
aquariusczajkowski, just about :)16:41
popeythats what i did16:41
popeyand the menu was all grey16:41
bigcalmaquarius: how did the 3rd house viewing go?16:41
* popey tests again16:41
popeybah, bloody works now16:41
czajkowskihmm may have to change my themefrom ambiance, trying to change zoom size to read pdfs and I can't see the menu bar or options well16:41
aquariuspopey, interesting. Shouldn't be. You might be being bitten by a nautilus-integration bug. Are you running U1 nightlies?16:41
popeyno, 12.04 tho16:41
aquariusbigcalm, they seem really keen on my house... but they haven't made an offer yet, and they've gotta sell their flat16:42
bigcalmaquarius: really hope it goes through this time :)16:42
aquariuspopey, you may want to ask on #ubutnuone whether it's a good idea to run the nightlies at the moment and see if it's fixed, if you can reliably replicate the problem?16:42
aquariusbigcalm, so do I, pal, so do I16:42
* bigcalm swears at vb.net16:42
popeythanks aquarius16:43
czajkowskidanfish: you gotten your rugby tickets yet?16:44
AlanBellczajkowski: they told me they would send tickets a week before the match16:47
AlanBellcan't quite believe I am going to a rugby game yet16:47
* TheOpenSourcerer has had enough of phoning today & goes to make chicken and roast veg fajitas for dinner :-D16:48
czajkowskiAlanBell: aye just wondered if anyone had gotten them16:54
popeyAlanBell: i went to a rugby game once.16:58
dutchiehi folks16:59
dutchiehow is everyone16:59
dutchiefeeling up to diagnosing some wireless network weirdness?17:01
popeydoesn't sound as great in the negative does it?17:02
popeysorry, on the phone17:02
dutchiefair enough17:02
dutchietbh i'm slightly sure that the main problem is my phone not connecting to wireless networks17:02
gordi also went to a rugby game once17:04
gordit was cold17:04
gordi had to stand up17:04
ali1234hmm this razor-qt is suprisingly good17:06
davmor2ali1234: everytime I hear Razor I think of the moto Razr for some reason and think the -qt tag is just the next gen version :D17:08
ali1234no its a desktop environment17:08
ali1234it's better than xfce but not quite as good as gnome 217:09
ali1234which isn't bad considering that xfce has been around nearly as long as gnome 217:09
ali1234and this is only about 3 months old17:09
davmor2czajkowski: prod17:10
hamitronis it still a good idea to use the same type (GTK/Qt) of apps?17:11
hamitronjust wondering if qt has everything needed17:11
ali1234hamitron: if you are using gnome then yes17:11
ali1234hamitron: if you're using KDE everything is such a mess that you won't notice any of the problems this causes17:11
hamitronhehe :D17:12
czajkowskidavmor2: poke17:12
ali1234hamitron: same goes for XFCE actually17:12
hamitronI just remember doing it to save memory17:12
hamitronbut in the past, I avoided Qt17:12
davmor2czajkowski: that's not bad nearly a month and a half to stop you being nice when I prod you :P17:12
ali1234Qt isn't a problem17:12
ali1234it's KDE17:12
hamitronthat razor-qt looks interesting17:13
ali1234Qt can look exactly like Gtk... KDE can't17:13
hamitronI'm gonna have to try it17:13
ali1234although Gtk can look exactly like KDE17:13
hamitronlooks don't worry me17:13
ali1234but KDE looks so horrible that nobody cares17:13
gordQt can't really look/feel exactly like gtk17:13
gordits always off, much to my annoyance17:13
ali1234nowhere near as much as KDE though17:14
hamitronI don't don't want loads of different libs loaded, if it still makes a difference17:14
gordwell kde is just put everything you might ever want to do in a menu17:14
gordi opened up the audio effects menu in kdenlive, it took three full (1200 pixels) sized menu panes for it to list all the entries17:14
ali1234that isn't even the problem... KDE simply doesn't have a theme that can look like Gtk17:15
ali1234not even close17:15
ali1234and not even if you trawl through the kde-look.org third party themes17:15
gordwell there is the theme that uses gtk to do the rendering, that is pretty close17:16
gordit just doesn't look like gnome because their UI design is different, different HIGs17:16
davmor2ali1234: yeah but you have a weird taste in desktop17:16
ali1234yep, but then you still have window decorations, panels, and anything involving plasma, which can't be themed at all17:16
hamitronI can't even see what is hugely wrong with Qt vs GTK apps here :/17:17
ali1234also KDE doesn't have a theme that uses Gtk, you are thinking of Qt17:18
gordyeah it does, i've used it, in kde17:18
ali1234then there's the font problems17:19
hamitronso all these "problems" are purely cosmetic?17:20
ali1234all problems with KDE are cosmetic17:20
hamitronI'll stop worrying then17:20
ali1234all problems with gnome are functional17:20
hamitronguess that leaves unity17:22
ali1234all the problems in unity are functional too17:22
hamitronso what would you complain about LXDE?17:23
hamitronI guess it maybe isn't very configurable17:24
ali1234well it's as ugly as KDE and as broken and gnome 2 and also it has no developers to fix it17:24
ali1234and the same goes for XFCE17:24
hamitronand all that17:24
gordonjcpali1234: so which GUI *do* you like?17:24
hamitronhe is a "critic"17:25
ali1234gordonjcp: gnome 217:25
hamitronas am I tbh17:25
gordonjcpso use it, then17:25
ali1234it is no longer supported17:25
ali1234second choice is unity17:26
ali1234that's what i use17:26
hamitronI still think there must be enough people to continue supporting Gnome 217:26
ali1234you can't make a product as good as gnome 2 without financial backing17:27
ali1234for evidence of this you only have to look at everything else17:27
gordonjcpali1234: bummer17:27
ali1234unity is nearly as good, everything else is absolutely awful17:27
gordonjcpali1234: maybe you should start a project to revive gnome 2, or port the gnome 2 desktop environment to gnome 317:28
ali1234gordonjcp: unfortunately i don't have the financial resources that would require17:28
gordonjcpali1234: sucks to be you, then17:29
occupy64kI think Mint are doing something like that - gnome 3 which looks like gnome 217:29
gordonjcpoccupy64k: yes, cinnamon17:29
ali1234but i can still spread the suckage around by pointing out very loudly the problems with the alternatives17:29
gordonjcpall software sucks17:29
ali1234occupy64k: yes i just tried that. it has no multimonitor support (because it is gnome 3) and it doesn't really look like gnome 2 other than having a bottom panel17:30
gordonjcpas for me, I've just had to learn to put up with the massive shortcomings in all OSes that aren't BeOS17:30
occupy64knever used BeOS17:30
occupy64kwhat happened to it?17:30
hamitronhas anything come of that Gnome 2 fork?17:31
ali1234no idea. i think they gave up17:31
brobostigonfor my old friend samantha i have to say this, who's birthday it is. my only other friend in world, and my soul mate. :'(17:31
gordonjcpoccupy64k: it didn't make any money and Be went out of business17:31
brobostigonhappy birthday, :)17:31
gordonjcpoccupy64k: various half-assed rescue plans were floated17:31
occupy64kpresumably it wasn't open source17:32
gordonjcpnot in the least17:32
brobostigonhaiku is OSS.17:32
gordonjcpthere is, however, Haiku17:32
occupy64khence the classic propriatary software death17:32
gordonjcpwhich *is* open-source and is getting more awesomer every day17:32
brobostigonagreed gordonjcp17:32
ali1234why exactly do people like beos?17:32
hamitronGnome 2 is open source, and will be dead ;)17:32
occupy64kis haiku a version of BeOS?17:32
ali1234i mean it has a user interface comparable to TWM17:32
brobostigonoccupy64k: it is OSS, and inspired by BeOS.17:33
ali1234back in the day it had good multimedia capabilities, but all computers have that now17:33
bigcalmdirecthex: ping17:33
bigcalmI need to look at the source for PasswordDeriveBytes() in mono. Call me dumb, but where would I find this online?17:34
davmor2bigcalm: on google :)17:35
bigcalmdavmor2: would you google that for me?17:35
hamitronI never saw the point of paying for BeOS with limited applications, when you can pay for MS Windows and have more support17:35
hamitronbrb, phone17:35
ali1234bigcalm: 7th hit or something17:36
bigcalmali1234: yes, that's C#. I wanted to make sure that everybody did it the same way17:36
ali1234what do you mean?17:36
bigcalmThe version I really need to know about is for vb.net17:36
ali1234it's the same17:37
bigcalmNext is, if an argument is passed as Nothing, what's the default value used?17:37
ali1234which function?17:37
occupy64ksounds like undefined bahavior17:38
bigcalmDim password_derive_bytes As New PasswordDeriveBytes( password, Nothing, "SHA384", 1000 )17:38
ali1234you'd think that, but .net is insane and passes Nothing all the time17:38
ali1234so the constructor17:38
occupy64kCan you actually run VB programs on linux?17:38
ali1234no but you can run vb.net programs17:38
davmor2bigcalm: https://raw.github.com/mono/mono/master/mcs/class/corlib/System.Security.Cryptography/PasswordDeriveBytes.cs :P17:38
bigcalmAs far as I can make out, Nothing passed in the 2nd is the salt17:38
ali1234actually you can run vb programs in wine sometimes17:39
bigcalmdavmor2: thank you17:39
occupy64kvia mono?17:39
hamitronisn't there that VB non-free software?17:39
davmor2bigcalm: that was mono source for PasswordDeriveBytes() and then looking at the stackoverflow answer :)17:40
hamitronrealbasic or something17:40
occupy64ka long, long time ago in another universe I sometimes wrote VB programs17:40
bigcalmLooking at the source, I can't see a default value set for rgbSalt17:41
ali1234there isn;t one17:42
ali1234there is code to handle null though17:42
ali1234so most likely if you pass Nothing it will not use any salt17:42
hamitronerm, no more funding for Kubuntu?17:43
bigcalmI need to replicate this function in PHP. So if no salt is used, not sure how I'm meant to pass that into PHP things that expect one17:43
bigcalmMaybe null will do17:43
occupy64kKubuntu has been defunded17:43
ali1234pass in empty string17:43
ali1234salt is just appended usually17:44
occupy64kor will be after 12.0417:44
ali1234you'll know it works if you get the same answer17:44
bigcalmThat's tricky as I'm relying upon a file sent to me by the client that has encrypted it the vb.net way17:44
bigcalmHopefully diff will work on the 2 binary files17:45
ali1234yeah but you can test it yourself on any input17:45
davmor2occupy64k: all that means is the one paid dev with canonical won't be working on it solely and the community will need to step up and do the bit he was doing,  so it's basically the same17:47
bigcalmIs sha1('foo') the same as hash('sha1', 'foo') I wonder17:47
bigcalmYes, phew!17:49
bigcalmIn the vb.net code, there's the line: key = password_derive_bytes.GetBytes(key_size_bits \ 8)17:54
bigcalmI assume that \ 8 is not the same as / 817:55
bigcalmIf that's the case, what is \?17:55
gord... divide?17:56
gorddivide bits by 8 to get bytes17:56
bigcalmDivide is /17:57
shaunointeger divide.  instead of real (float) divide17:57
bigcalmshauno: thank you, not something I was aware of17:57
shaunoeg, 5\8 is 1, not 0.something17:57
bigcalmI think in PHP that would be 5 % 817:57
shauno% is modulus, the remainder17:58
bigcalmOr not17:58
bigcalmRather: (int)(5 / 8)18:02
bigcalmNow to work out what .GetBytes() does :)18:03
bigcalmAfter a cuppa tea!18:03
AlanBellanyone want to try a hacky prototype of significant awesomeness http://paste.ubuntu.com/834248/18:21
AlanBellpop that somewhere and run it with python, then right click launcher items and look at the quicklists18:21
AlanBellyou can now raise *one* window, that you intended to \o/18:22
* bigcalm thinks he would need to be running Unity18:22
AlanBellit doesn't use signals properly and add and remove quicklists as windows come and go18:22
bigcalmDidn't know you were a coder, AlanBell18:22
AlanBellbut it does mean I can now use unity18:23
AlanBellbigcalm: I just play one on TV18:23
bigcalmSaw the Doogie Howser Old Spice ad yesterday on youtube. Was amusing18:24
popeydbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: No such interface `(null)' on object at path /org/ayatana/bamf/matcher18:27
popeyAlanBell: ^18:27
ali1234AlanBell: are you on precise?18:30
ali1234unity 5.2?18:31
ali1234maybe i need to update18:32
AlanBellunity 5.2.018:32
AlanBellbut I am not using any new bits I think18:32
ali1234well i have 400mb of updates to install18:33
AlanBelldon't suppose you have any apps running that don't have a .desktop file do you?18:33
ali1234um, most of them?18:33
popeyi am up to date18:33
popeyi do18:34
* popey closes it18:34
popeystill barfs18:34
AlanBellah, that is helpful, thanks18:35
AlanBellfailing at the first hurdle :(18:37
mgdmComputer fails to launch display, try running fglrx instead of radeon - it cannot comprehend I have 2 monitors. Remove fglrx, reinstall radeon, now it works18:38
MartijnVdSYay ati18:39
AlanBellpopey: ali1234 can you let me know if this gives the error or a load of dbus.String output http://paste.ubuntu.com/834288/18:45
ali1234No such interface `(null)' on object at path /org/ayatana/bamf/matcher18:46
AlanBellok, I think you don't have bamfdaemon running or something18:46
AlanBellor it isn't talking on dbus18:47
popeyalan      2150  0.0  0.1 337456 13428 ?        Sl   07:13   0:06 /usr/lib/bamf/bamfdaemon18:47
* AlanBell runs out of clues and asks gord for help18:47
ali1234what's that dbus browser called?18:48
ali1234oh those updates are still installing :(18:48
AlanBellI would do a screenshot of d-feet if I could still use the screenshot facility18:54
ali1234i've used it before18:55
popeyor install shutter18:55
ali1234just can't get it installed until the updates finish18:55
popeyshutter > gnome-screenshot18:55
popeyprintscreen works fine here, just saves to Pictures folder18:55
AlanBellpopey: yeah, I have just been filing a bug, alt+prtscr takes the whole desktop18:55
popeyoh dear18:55
ali1234yeah the screenshot thing is gone now :/18:56
ali1234need to reboot for kernel update18:56
popeyworks here18:56
popeyprtscr does whole desktop. alt does window18:56
AlanBellplus alt+prtscr brings up the HUD :)18:56
popeyah, i dont have hud installed18:56
popeyso hud is stealing the alt press then18:57
AlanBellah, maybe that is why18:57
AlanBellgord ^^18:57
AlanBellgnome and canonical are ganging up to break things now :)18:57
czajkowskiAlanBell: how does one get hud working18:59
ali1234"bamfdaemon closed unexpectedly"18:59
popeybeen doing that for 7 years18:59
popeyyou install it from a ppa18:59
popeyonce gord builds a new version18:59
czajkowskiI did that following the instructions in the orange netbook18:59
popey18:59:39 < popey> once gord builds a new version19:00
brobostigonhttp://www.three.co.uk/Discover/Devices/Huawei/Web_Cube/White very similer to the myfi.19:00
czajkowskigord: if you could not break my machine while doing so that would be great19:00
popeyits bsaed on previous version of unity19:00
czajkowskipopey: how is the new laptop?19:00
ali1234AlanBell: still no dice19:00
popeyczajkowski: love it19:00
czajkowskipopey: did you name it ?19:01
popeyyes, it's called "Deep Thought"19:01
popeywell, deep-thought19:02
AlanBellpopey: I am using HUD and unity 5.2 I think19:04
AlanBelljust not the unity PPA with the "pressure" stuff and multi-monitor launchers19:04
ali12345.2 doesn't support hud19:04
Myrttiboo, if only I'd speak German, I could apply for a job for Spotify :-<19:05
ali1234argh stupid overlay scrollbars19:05
popeyAlanBell: dunno how19:05
popeyahh, not the hud ppa?19:06
AlanBellalan@alanlaptop:~$ unity --version19:06
AlanBellunity 5.2.019:06
popeywell i did have hud, i upgraded and lost it19:06
AlanBelldeb http://ppa.launchpad.net/unity-team/hud/ubuntu precise main19:07
AlanBellactually I wonder when I last restarted unity19:08
popeyrestart and you'll lose hud19:08
AlanBelland bamfdaemon for that matter19:08
AlanBellok, I can reproduce the problem now :(19:13
czajkowskiAlanBell: oh that crashes for you too19:13
czajkowskiI'd really like the one on 1st login to go away, keep getting crash19:14
czajkowskidrives me a bit batty19:14
popeywhat if you do it right at the top?19:19
ali1234AlanBell: http://imagebin.org/19794519:19
ali1234popey: it doesn't make any difference19:19
AlanBellyeah, and you can right click and execute it, can't figure out why it stopped running from python19:19
ali1234oh, someone already reported the scrollbar thing :)19:34
ali1234which means i get to confirm it \o/19:35
ali1234and post my video19:35
mgdmWooo, I get to reinstall Natty at the weekend19:37
AlanBellah yes, that one, you have to try to outwit the scrollbar to get to the resizer19:38
ali1234yes, incredibly irritating that19:38
ali1234it was bad enough in previous versions, it's even worse in precise19:38
ali1234you cannot outwit it any more19:38
ali1234because it appears anywhere on the edge19:38
AlanBellalso kind of hard to resize windows from the right edge now19:39
ali1234feel free to hit "affects me too" on bug 90783719:39
lubotu3Launchpad bug 907837 in Ayatana Design "difficult to resize window with 12.04 overlay scrollbar" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/90783719:39
AlanBellpopey: ali1234 http://paste.ubuntu.com/834375/19:55
AlanBelldbus is now fussy about interfaces19:56
ali1234seems to work !19:56
ali1234it's messed up my nautilus windows though19:57
AlanBellooh :)19:57
ali1234now i have a new icon i didn't have before, and the one at the top has no windows associated with it19:57
AlanBellyeah, I have no idea what it is doing with nautilus19:58
ali1234i think it doesn't register that nautilus == home folder19:58
ali1234but this is pretty cool19:58
AlanBellnautilus==desktop root window19:58
ali1234well... f you say so19:58
ali1234if i click the home folder icon (default at the top) then i now always get a new window, and it registers under a new, different looking icon at the bottom19:59
ali1234and also it isn't listed in the quicklist19:59
ali1234does it even track new windows?19:59
AlanBellno, not really20:00
ali1234not at all :)20:00
AlanBellit does something every second20:00
AlanBellnot quite sure what though20:00
AlanBellhowever, there are dbus signals that it should listen to in order to track windows20:01
AlanBellthis is so nice I think I will finish it20:03
brobostigonwhat does reconciled mean ?20:10
AlanBellit means "checked off" against a bank statement or something20:12
AlanBellso I have a reciept for £70 for petrol, there it is on my bank statement, that statement line is now reconciled20:13
=== lozzy is now known as Lozzy_uk
brobostigoni was refferring to https://tools.bitfolk.com/redmine/issues/93 i can make sense of,20:15
AlanBellthey are not marking invoices as paid until they see it in the bank account20:18
brobostigoneven if it has left mine a week earlier.20:19
AlanBellyeah, just means they have not got round to checking they have the money yet20:19
brobostigonmakes more sense now.20:20
brobostigonAlanBell: because, the last few months, i have prodded andy, because i havent understood why, and give him a prod, on the day, my money would be due.20:22
brobostigonas it didnt show on bitfolks admin panel.20:22
AlanBellI would relax about it20:22
brobostigoni will now, now i know, that the panel doesnt reflect, when bitfolk have actually acknowleged the payment.20:23
Lozzy_ukhi, anyone know of a LAN messaging client I can use on both linux & win plz? or two that talk to each other even...20:42
AzelphurLozzy_uk: afaik empathy or pidgin could do that20:46
brobostigonbonjour, over xmpp, yes.20:47
Lozzy_ukwell I think I have the linux end figured for empathy20:47
Lozzy_uknot sure what I'm supposed to use on the windoze end though20:47
brobostigonLozzy_uk: in empathy, it is the people nearby, account type.20:47
brobostigonLozzy_uk: in pidgin it is bonjour.20:48
Lozzy_ukso I use pidgin on the windows side then I guess?20:50
brobostigonthat is what i would do,20:51
Lozzy_ukok brobostigon many thanks for the advice (and Azelphur)20:52
diploEvening all21:17
jacobwhey diplo21:21
diplo2 hours later, Cyagenmod installed \o/21:22
jacobwok, now i've cheered, i can tell you that miui is better :p21:24
diplomiui ?21:25
diploAnd don't care so much now as i can just load from Clockwork21:25
jacobwfucking google links21:25
diplota, taking a look now21:26
diploWhat do you say is the better part about it ?21:27
diploMy phone not on there rom list21:28
bigcalm!ohmy | jacobw21:29
lubotu3jacobw: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.21:29
jacobwmuch nicer look, better tools21:29
jacobwbigcalm: i was starting to think i'd gotten away with it ;)21:29
diploWill have a read up on it to see if i can squeeze it on :)21:30
diplocheers, now it's rooted I'm happy to try anythinhg21:31
jacobwthere might not be a rom available for your phone21:31
AlanBellI think apt-add-repository is broken21:33
jacobwhow so?21:33
AlanBelldunno if it is just that ppa or the tool21:34
jacobwpython 2.7 must be precise21:35
jacobwi'd guess its the tool21:36
AlanBellsudo apt-add-repository ppa:gwibber-daily/ppa21:36
AlanBellthat seems to work (or get further)21:36
AlanBellhmm, maybe I need a launchpad support engineer21:37
jacobwit seems unlikley that a broken ppa could be unknown and cause an unhandled crash21:37
AlanBelldoes sudo apt-add-repository ppa:onboard/snapshot work for you (you don't need to install it, just see if it crashes, press ctrl+c if it works)21:38
DJonesAlanBell: Nope21:40
AlanBellok, thanks21:40
AlanBellon precise?21:40
DJonesNo, 11.10 http://pastebin.com/CV16JAyU21:40
AlanBellok, great, not a regression then21:41
DJonesDifferent error line numbers to your pastebin though21:41
AlanBellyeah, same problem though, bad/missing json from lplib somewhere21:42
AlanBellluckily we now have czajkowski to help with such issues21:42
diplojacobw, looks nice21:45
diploGoing to take a look round and see what i can do21:46
AlanBellDJones: I am a failure21:52
AlanBellsudo apt-add-repository ppa:onboard/snapshots21:52
AlanBellthe final s is kind of important21:52
AlanBellooh nasty crash during an update21:58
AlanBellupdate of glibc no less :-/21:58
czajkowskiAlanBell: eh ?22:33
zleapis there a specfic package i need for gamepads22:34
AlanBellczajkowski: I though launchpad was broken, but it was user error22:36
czajkowskiyou mean you broke it ;)22:37
popeyyeah czajkowski, fix launchpad!22:37
AlanBellno, I just fail at copying and pasting22:37
ali1234Azelphur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wbyyA9X4Qk22:38
czajkowskipopey: thats no 2 on my list of requests22:38
czajkowskithe #1 was get rid of bzr22:38
Azelphurali1234: looks pretty cool, seems similar to the N900 :)22:38
ali1234(spark tablet, plasma active, mer)22:38
AlanBell"add git support" would be better than "get rid of bzr" surely22:38
AlanBellI would like launchpad to add documentation22:39
AlanBelllike github shows the README22:40
AlanBellon launchpad we have overview, code, bugs, blueprints, translations, answers, but no "documentation"22:40
czajkowskiAlanBell: nods on both those things22:41
ali1234Azelphur: it's quite a bit bigger than an N90022:44
zleapcapello has quit as england manager22:54
Azelphurali1234: indeed22:55
zleaphmm  game pad no longer works on either computer22:58
ubuntuuk-planet[Jono Bacon] Blogging Tips - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/08/blogging-tips/23:05
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
AlanBellthat is two REISUB lockups today, both with the mouse on the left edge of a screen trying to get the launcher out . . .23:44
popeyi leave mine out...23:44

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