[04:58] <MartijnVdS> gord: \o/ gstreamer
[06:44] <Mavrick95> can anyone explain me how i can rename/delete the /etc/x11/xorg.file at the root console?
[07:24] <popey> morning
[07:24]  * popey scrolls back
[07:24]  * popey quite likes the idea of the screenshot tool not popping up a dialog
[07:25] <AlanBell> morning
[07:26] <AlanBell> well it would be OK to not pop up a dialog if it informed you where the picture was. Or put it on the clipboard
[07:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings
[07:28] <popey> yeah, a notification bubble popping up with the name of the file that had been saved would be good
[07:28] <popey> but thats flawed also
[07:28] <popey> if you want to take a succession of pictures you'd end up with notifications for the previous image in them
[07:29] <popey> i dont care much i use shutter instead, it's way better than gnome screenshot
[07:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> Lat night my son aked for a launcher thing for Minecraft on his 11.10 desktop. Jeez, that's a right palaver. Why can't I just right click on the launcher and select "Create Launcher" ffs.
[07:31] <czajkowski> aloha
[07:34] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: java is why
[07:34] <AlanBell> hmm
[07:34] <popey> well, actually minecraft packaging is why
[07:34] <popey> because you dont have a minecraft package that contains a desktop file
[07:34] <AlanBell> neither sounds convincing to me
[07:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> What. I can right click on my desktop in 10.10 and create a lanucher. What I enter in the command string is entirely up to me.
[07:37] <popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/34408/how-to-add-minecraft-to-unity-launcher
[07:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> Exactly. I read that. I refer back to my original question. Why is this so hard? If they want Unity for "normal/average users" this kind of thing just sucks
[07:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have several launchers for the same app - with various switches for IP domains or whatnot. Having to jump through cli hoops to do it just seems like a total regression.
[07:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> That example also creates a "global" launcher if i am not mistaken. That is not what my son wants. He's the only minecraft user on that machine and the minecraft jar is in his ~/bin
[07:42] <popey> you're not telling me something I don't know ☺
[07:42] <popey> bug 705007
[07:42] <popey> 2011-01-19
[07:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey - A year old.
[07:44] <AlanBell> so we conclude from this that the design team don't play minecraft
[07:44] <AlanBell> or play it on a mac :)
[07:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> Man that sucks.
[07:48] <popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16919664
[07:48] <popey> oops
[07:49]  * czajkowski waves at popey morning :D
[07:50] <popey> yo
[07:50] <popey> http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/3/2767453/trendnet-ip-camera-exploit-4chan
[08:00] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> On Fusion: "... one gram of deuterium will provide 144 billion Joules of energy when it  is completely burned into helium. One gram of benzene, a common  hydrocarbon, releases just 48kJ when oxidized (burned in the normal  sense)."
[08:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2012/02/a-crushing-magnetic-field-combined-with-a-laser-may-make-fusion-more-efficient.ars
[08:05] <diplo> Morning all
[08:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning diplo
[08:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> Did you get OpenERP running?
[08:06] <diplo> Nope, heh in a rush last night i forgot to take my work laptop home :/
[08:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[08:06] <diplo> My old beast at home isn't up to vm's :/
[08:06] <diplo> Really must get back my PC from my parents at some point
[08:06] <diplo> Going to make a start right now
[08:09] <diplo> Can't get my fingers warm this morning :(
[08:10] <AlanBell> does documentation for bamf exist outside of canonical I wonder
[08:12] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> This is funny, if it wasn't so sad... The three patents that MS are suing B&N for and one of the ones that Amazon pays a license for. Trivial, not novel or innovative.
[08:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/02/the-three-patents-microsoft-is-hammering-the-nook-withand-why-they-may-be-invalid.ars
[08:15] <daubers> Morning
[08:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> "Microsoft is, presumably, putting some of its best patents forward in the case..." Oh dear.
[08:18] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning brobostigon
[08:19] <brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer
[08:21] <DJones> Morning all
[08:21] <brobostigon> morning DJones
[08:23] <brobostigon> weird, bitlbee just reset itself, and killed one of my accounts.
[08:24] <diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, I really hope it knocks some of these stupid patents on the head i really do
[08:24] <diplo> I wonder if it will invalidate all the existing patent agreements with the likes of Samsung etc
[08:24] <diplo> Not seen that mentioned on any articles i've read so far
[08:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> If B&N do win and prove that MS patents are hogwash, then Samsung, LG et al might be feeling a little "peeved"
[08:25] <daubers> Heh, if the patent is invalidated, do you think the others will sue MS for extortion?
[08:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> I doubt it would invalidate as they were pure commercial agreements made behind closed-doors.
[08:26] <AlanBell> doubt it
[08:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> daubers: That is a very happy thought but as AlanBell says, I would doubt it. They have business that replies on MS as well as Andriod.
[08:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> s\relies\Android.
[08:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> keyboard failure
[08:27] <AlanBell> I would think at renegotiation time they might end up paying less
[08:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> There might be some [ahem] harsh words said behind those doors.
[08:27] <diplo> I guess MS have been doing this for years now and have a lot of tied up in very strict clauses etc
[08:27] <AlanBell> but these are complicated "big money" deals all about moving money around balance sheets and avoiding taxes
[08:28] <diplo> 10.04 nearly installed \o/
[08:28] <AlanBell> "we must bring down our marketing costs, but we don't care what we spend on licensing costs"
[08:28] <AlanBell> so lets pay a licensing cost to Microsoft and Microsoft can fund all our marketing activities
[08:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> indeed
[08:29] <AlanBell> probably some currency shuffling involved too
[08:30] <AlanBell> lets pay licensing cost in Yen in the far east and Dollars come out in America
[08:30] <AlanBell> or vice versa
[08:33]  * daubers wonders if the little tool shop in tadley will have a set of vernier calipers
[08:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> Great video - fight between Cannon and Nikon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTVfFmENgPU (Funny)
[08:36] <diplo> Lets see how good this tutorial is now :)
[08:39]  * TheOpenSourcerer trembles waiting for diplo's review...
[08:39] <diplo> heh
[08:40] <diplo> Tried with Postgres9 TheOpenSourcerer ?
[08:40] <diplo> Never used postgres but believe 9 has lot's of improvements / speed
[08:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno - what's the packaged version in 10.04? 8?
[08:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> TBH I never even looked at the version number of Postgres.
[08:41] <diplo> yeah, think it said 8.48
[08:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
[08:41] <diplo> Well, this is worth it just to get me to look at postgres
[08:41] <diplo> :)
[08:42] <brobostigon> i need to plan, to upgrade my vps, from lts to lts, once 12.04 is release.
[08:42] <daubers> We're looking at migrating from mysql to postgres :(
[08:42] <diplo> I've debated holding ordering my VPS till 12.04 comes out
[08:42] <diplo> You read about Ubuntu moving to MariaDB daubers ?
[08:42] <diplo> Well the suggestion
[08:42] <brobostigon> i use SQLite on my vps, works well, and is nice and light, and resource friendly.
[08:42] <AlanBell> diplo: runs fine on postgresql-9.1
[08:42] <daubers> diplo: That's the main reason we're looking at it
[08:43] <daubers> brobostigon: No good for multiple applications accessing a DB though
[08:44] <brobostigon> daubers: ah, didnt know that, interesting.
[08:44] <AlanBell> diplo: if you are using openerp and looking at postgres you are doing something wrong :)
[08:44] <knightwise> hey brobostigon AlanBell , and the rest.
[08:44] <knightwise> good morning to ya
[08:44] <diplo> heh AlanBell, I always want to look at products I'm going to use.. want to understand how to fix something if it goes wrong
[08:45] <brobostigon> morning knightwise
[08:45] <AlanBell> yeah, I am aware of one project that went very very wrong because a postgres "expert" went under the openerp API and started tinkering with tables directly
[08:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[08:47] <diplo> Oh not tinkering for me, more administering like how to run the equivalent of mysqldump etc
[08:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> pgdump
[08:47] <brobostigon> i only have drupal using sqlite, so should be ok,
[08:47] <diplo> ta
[08:47] <AlanBell> that is fine then :) and openERP does use the database quite sensibly I think (takes advantage of atomic transactions etc)
[08:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Sorry - pg_dump and pg_dumpall
[08:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> Postgres is a little odd in that it typically has no "root" user.
[08:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> You su to the postrges user and do most things from the cli
[08:52] <diplo> Well I'm at home in cli so that's good :)
[08:53] <diplo> Seems I've grabbed different version of openerp than your notes, different layout
[08:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> The docs are pretty good - google usually shows me the right way ;-)
[08:53]  * diplo checks
[08:53] <AlanBell> there is phppgadmin and phadmin3 but I have not really used them beyond firing them up and deciding that I didn't need to know about the tables
[08:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Yes.
[08:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> 6.1 is different.
[08:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> See my comments from last night. No separate web client
[08:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> no need to install second init scripts etc.
[08:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> web interface listens on :8069
[08:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> by default
[08:55] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps
[08:57] <diplo> I don't have a bin directory etc, that was the biggest difference so far.. going through your example conf to see what else may need to change
[08:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> As I also said last night ignore my conf scripts. ;-)
[08:58] <diplo> Ah, heh i did just scroll up and read
[08:58] <diplo> But missed that
[09:04] <mrevell> Guten morgen!
[09:12] <gord> this might be my favourite headline of the year http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9066337/CCTV-police-officer-chased-himself-after-being-mistaken-for-burglar.html
[09:13] <dwatkins> haha oops
[09:14] <dwatkins> "he's behind you!" and other pantomime-esque comments...
[09:16] <AlanBell> looks like the naked atlantic pedalo crossing record is still up for grabs http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-16929840
[09:20] <BigRedS> Anyone know of something wiki-like that would work for simple network diagrams?
[09:20] <BigRedS> Just sticking ASCII-art into mediawiki's not quite ideal :)
[09:21] <bigcalm> I've been having great fun with dia
[09:21] <bigcalm> Not wiki like, but useful
[09:22] <BigRedS> yeah, we've tried that, but basically these need to be as quick adn easy and simple as possible to update else we just end up with outdated diagrams
[09:23] <BigRedS> so manual uploading etc. doesn't cut it
[09:24] <dwatkins> BigRedS: I've not used it, but LucidChart appears to be free for up to 2 concurrent users
[09:26] <popey> BigRedS: http://www.asciiflow.com/
[09:26] <BigRedS> popey: oh! I've not seen that before!
[09:26] <dwatkins> awesome
[09:29] <bigcalm> That is very cool
[09:33] <BigRedS> dwatkins: ah, that looks a bit less fun but a bit mroe useful also :) Ta
[09:36] <dwatkins> BigRedS: yeah, I really like popey's link, it solves the problem in a fun way too
[09:56] <oimon> i don't think i'll see a better website today than that one
[09:59] <bigcalm> oimon: have you not seen zombo.com ?
[09:59] <TheAshMan> Hi, how do I completely remove mysql including all related info on users etc..?
[10:02] <MooDoo> TheAshMan: http://stuffthatspins.com/2011/01/08/ubuntu-10-x-completely-remove-and-clean-mysql-installation/ this help?
[10:09] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :D
[10:11] <bigcalm> Hidiho
[10:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> A new world's hottest chilli. >2million scoville (That is insanely hot)
[10:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.lcsun-news.com/las_cruces-news/ci_19909976
[10:13] <bigcalm> I'm sure it's a lovely plant to grow. But what's the point in trying to make the hottest chilli if the human body can't cope with it?
[10:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Some people can :-D
[10:15]  * bigcalm shakes his head :P
[10:16] <TheAshMan> MooDoo: No, I tried that, but after reinstalling, the mysql.user table still contained all the users I previously created.
[10:17] <kirrus> bigcalm: afaik, indians think we're all wimps for our lack of chilli-eating ability
[10:18] <popey> I'd probably 'drop databases' before uninstalling
[10:19] <TheAshMan> popey: Including the mysql and info... DB's?
[10:20] <bigcalm> popey: if the actual database directories are removed, there's no need
[10:21] <popey> bigcalm: they arent tho
[10:21] <popey> unless you manually delete them, guess it doesnt make much difference either way
[10:22] <bigcalm> I see
[10:22] <bigcalm> One can manually remove them
[10:22] <TheAshMan> where are the DB's located?
[10:22] <bigcalm> Uninstall mysql server and client then use locate to find anything mysql
[10:23] <bigcalm> TheAshMan: /var/lib/mysql
[10:30] <TheAshMan> Thanks bigcalm
[10:30] <zleap> hi
[10:31] <zleap> my shutdwn icon has gone from my panel
[10:31] <TheAshMan> right click the panel and select 'Add To Panel' Should be able to find the option in there
[10:31] <zleap> i can't right click using unity
[10:31] <TheAshMan> at least you used to be able to :/
[10:31] <zleap> yeah
[10:32] <TheAshMan> eyah, just noticed. Sorry, my bad
[10:32] <zleap> np
[10:32] <zleap> it used to have my user name as a click point too,  so i could click on that and change users, shut down etc
[10:33] <zleap> i wonder if thius is related to the fact that ubuntu-desktop got removed, i was unable to log inproperly as there was no actual desktop environment to boot into
[10:35] <popey> zleap: open a terminal
[10:35] <popey> zleap: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
[10:35] <popey> and look at what gets reinstalled
[10:35] <zleap> ok
[10:35] <popey> paste the content of the terminal to the pastebin
[10:37] <zleap> http://pastebin.com/sfxA7zH4
[10:37] <zleap> looks like i am already upto date
[10:38] <popey> no
[10:38] <popey> you missed the ^ off the end
[10:38] <popey> do it again and add the ^ to the end and pastebin that please
[10:39] <zleap> ok sorry about that
[10:41] <zleap> http://pastebin.com/iJcG7qv9
[10:42] <popey> there we go
[10:42] <zleap> ah
[10:42] <popey> you're missing some bits that are critical to the indicator area
[10:42] <zleap> i know,  however when i scroll back it stops so i pasted everything
[10:42] <popey> just press enter
[10:42] <popey> to install the missing bits
[10:43] <zleap> ok
[10:43] <popey> line 507 and 508
[10:43] <popey> thats what I'm talking about whats missing
[10:43] <popey> not the scrollback
[10:43] <zleap> ok
[10:43] <zleap> thanks
[10:44] <zleap> installing now
[10:44] <popey> you might need to logout/in after
[10:44] <zleap> ok
[10:45] <zleap> may restart then as my log out button is missing
[10:45] <zleap> but as it seems to be installing new kernel stuff then that should be ok
[10:45] <zleap> brb
[10:49] <zleap> popey, working now,  thanks
[10:50] <popey> np
[10:52] <bigcalm> popey: everybody you tell always misses off the ^. Are we carrot blind?
[10:53]  * BigRedS groans
[10:53] <popey> need moar carrots
[10:57] <daubers> Is there some kind of CC/GPL type licence for open hardware projects?
[10:57] <gordonjcp> daubers: yes
[10:58] <daubers> gordonjcp: What's it called?
[10:58] <gord> you need MORE? geez!
[10:58]  * daubers passes gord some cake
[10:59] <gord> nom
[10:59] <bigcalm> http://www.tapr.org/OHL ?
[10:59] <daubers> bigcalm: Yeah, having a read of that now
[10:59] <bigcalm> K
[10:59] <daubers> ta :)
[10:59] <gordonjcp> yeah, I was just about to post that
[11:00] <gordonjcp> the TAPR OHL is probably the longest running
[11:00] <daubers> Hnmmmm, CERN have one too
[11:00] <danfish> daubers: have you seen http://solderpad.com/
[11:01] <daubers> danfish: No....
[11:01] <gordonjcp> oh yeah, Andrew Back's thing ;-)
[11:01] <davmor2> morning all
[11:02] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod, morning you happy hippy :D
[11:03] <MooDoo> mornig davmor2 czajkowski oh and congrats
[11:04]  * daubers reads moar legalese
[11:04] <davmor2> MooDoo: here have a coffee
[11:04]  * bigcalm tries to get his head around 3des without much luck
[11:05] <davmor2> bigcalm: around what now!
[11:05] <bigcalm> TripleDES
[11:06] <MooDoo> davmor2: thanks
[11:06] <davmor2> MooDoo: you need to look at http://wakingupnow.com/blog/dolly-partons-other-voice when you can :)
[11:06] <gord> davmor2, bigcalm - no time for trip south tomorrow, two weeks time?
[11:06] <davmor2> gord: yeap
[11:06] <gord> funky
[11:06] <davmor2> gord: anyone would think it was like feature freeze next week or something
[11:07] <bigcalm> Client has a VB.NET script that encrypts and decrypts messages using 3des. I need to replicate this in PHP. Not having a grand time so far
[11:07] <bigcalm> gord: you said it would be touch and go. Understandable
[11:09] <morpheous> #scribus
[11:09] <bigcalm> davmor2: we're a few days into February and I'm still lacking ICS on my Xoom. What gives? :P
[11:10] <gord> cool, my IDE crashes if i use } - not like i need that character or anything
[11:10] <bigcalm> o.O
[11:10] <popey> has anyone here got the newer HP Microserver? Not the N36L?
[11:11] <gord> when people say that LTS dev releases are relatively stable, they reeeeeeeally are only talking about main ;)
[11:11] <davmor2> bigcalm: it's motorola I've never known them release to schedule where did you get this bazaar notion that it would be feburary :D
[11:11] <bigcalm> davmor2: you!
[11:12] <davmor2> bigcalm: all I said was that the xoom would be getting ICS and pointed you at the news on the T'interweb :P
[11:12] <daubers> gord: Is there some magic I can do to change how hard I have to push to the left to get the unity bar to appear?
[11:12] <gord> daubers, ccsm somewhere
[11:12] <davmor2> bigcalm: I didn't say when
[11:12] <daubers> gord: Ta :)
[11:12] <davmor2> gord: use a better IDE?  geany and nano ftw
[11:13] <bigcalm> I'm really happy with NetBeans
[11:13] <bigcalm> My Eclipse days are far behind me now
[11:13] <diplo> I like netbeans, I just wish it wasn't such a hugry soab
[11:14] <bigcalm> It isn't, compared to Eclipse
[11:14] <gordonjcp> I installed eclipse because it seems that Android development is heavily tied into it
[11:14] <gordonjcp> but it won't run on my PC
[11:14] <bigcalm> Mind, I did download the PHP only instance
[11:14] <gordonjcp> and it's too hard to use anyway
[11:18] <oimon> bigcalm: no i hadn't seen that site either, but popeys site is better :D
[11:20] <bigcalm> Pfft
[11:20] <bigcalm> You can do anything on zombo.com
[11:20] <MooDoo> how are you today davmor2 ?
[11:23] <czajkowski> MooDoo: ello
[11:23] <czajkowski> davmor2: oi I'm no hippy!
[11:23] <MooDoo> hello czajkowski congrats on the job :)
[11:23] <davmor2> MooDoo: I'm good dude, you?
[11:23] <czajkowski> thank you :-)
[11:25] <MooDoo> davmor2: meh! and czajkowski you're welcome, dead chuffed for you
[11:25] <davmor2> czajkowski: Long hair and flowing dresses if ever there was a hippy it's you :P, and you're happy and happy and hippy went together so <blows_raspberries> :P </blows_raspberries>
[11:27] <MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski = one stunning hippy i think you'll find :)
[11:27] <davmor2> MooDoo: but the keyword there is still hippy ;)
[11:29] <czajkowski> ye lot are nutters
[11:29] <MooDoo> czajkowski: nah we're just smitten with your wonderous hippyesk beauty :)
[11:29] <MooDoo> lol
[11:34] <gord> i agree with czajkowski
[11:52]  * bigcalm semi-regrets joining ##php
[11:52] <bigcalm> Not used to such a busy channel
[11:53] <diplo> heh bigcalm that's why i normally ask for help outside of there :)
[11:54] <bigcalm> diplo: I wasn't getting anywhere with google and here so thought I'd try there
[11:54] <bigcalm> Will try harder next time (pestering here that is)
[11:54] <diplo> heh
[11:54] <diplo> This still for the 3des thing ?
[11:54] <bigcalm> Yes
[11:54] <diplo> Never played myself I'm afraid
[11:55] <gordonjcp> bigcalm: what about it?
[11:55] <bigcalm> The client has given me the password, but not the key or iv. Apparently I am able to derive those myself. Trying to understand VB.NET is a pain
[11:55] <diplo> Using mcrypt ?
[11:56] <bigcalm> Yes
[11:58] <bigcalm> VB.NET script I need to turn into PHP: http://www.vb-helper.com/howto_net_des_file.html
[11:58] <diplo> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1142477/using-mcrypt-to-decrypt-a-ciphertext-3des-cbc-mode
[11:58] <bigcalm> Using this as a base: http://mishu666.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/problem-and-solve-of-3des-incompatibilities-with-nets-tripledescryptoserviceprovider/
[11:59] <bigcalm> diplo: indeed, except that I don't have any keys. This is why I'm trying to reverse engineer the vb.net script
[11:59] <bigcalm> 1st step was to realise that mcrypt wasn't installed on my dev server ;)
[11:59] <diplo> :/
[12:00] <diplo> Great fun, guessing the reason is to put data available on a intranet?
[12:00] <davmor2> hey mrevell  where is the best place to ask some /lp/~user/+junk - bzr questions?
[12:00] <bigcalm> Gah! Thunderbird just popped up a reminder for tomorrow's work place day. Except I thought it meant it was today
[12:00]  * bigcalm hits dismiss with frustration
[12:00] <mrevell> davmor2, #launchpad -- what's your question?
[12:02] <davmor2> mrevell: I am using the whole system for syncing and publicising my testscripts whoever it doesn't seem to be syncing all the image changes :(
[12:02] <czajkowski> davmor2: you broke it
[12:02] <davmor2> however even
[12:03] <mrevell> davmor2, Syncing from where? Do you have a link to the branch where this is happening?
[12:05] <davmor2> mrevell: local pc pushes to :parent with the changes however the changes aren't in the lp folder, link is lp:~davmor2/+junk/testscripts  the free_app_install folder has the code changes but not the new images that the code relies on :(
[12:06] <mrevell> davmor2, Let's move this to #launchpad
[12:06] <davmor2> wilko
[12:11] <ali1234> i made a video that is so long that totem thinks it is -52:-13
[12:11] <ali1234> and the file is 1mb
[12:11] <ali1234> think i should upload it to youtube?
[12:12] <ali1234> totem seems to overflow at about 264 hours
[12:22] <andylockran> heylo
[12:25] <zleap> what has happened to bluefish in 10.10
[12:25] <zleap> sorry 11.10
[12:26] <zleap> ok found it,  got removed during upgrade
[12:41] <mattt_> afternoon afternoon
[12:41] <MooDoo> hi
[12:42] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgAZmSc5WS0
[12:42] <ali1234> the "short" version just finished processing :)
[12:48] <czajkowski> gord: popey is this normal. when applications are at max it goes behind the launcher. http://twitpic.com/8h810a/full
[12:49] <popey> have you logged out / in since you updated the machine?
[12:52] <oimon> just seen a female student wearing tiny shorts outside. doesn't she know it's subzero temperatures?
[12:52] <diplo> oimon, It's fashion, weather doesn't come in to it!
[12:52] <czajkowski> popey: this morning nope
[12:52] <diplo> :P
[12:53] <popey> czajkowski: update and then logout/in
[12:53] <daubers> oimon: Since you where watching her, she may have achieved her aim?
[12:53] <oimon> diplo: are blue legs fashionable?
[12:53] <diplo> There was a TV doc on exactly stuff like that recently, some girls out in liverpool with next to nothing on and asked about why there were like that at -5+ temps
[12:53] <diplo> And they basically said looks were more important than keeping warm
[12:53] <diplo> :/
[12:53] <daubers> ah ha!
[12:54] <oimon> it's sports afternoon on wednesdays , so i guess she was going to play netball or something...but...trackkie bottoms?
[12:54] <daubers> gord: There's an option to change the sensitivity of the left push in the appearences thing now \o/ Much easier to get too
[12:57] <zleap> diplo, I am sure children / young people can't feel the cold in the same way adults do,
[12:59] <czajkowski> popey: sweet that fixed it
[13:00] <czajkowski> also whats with the new password login box, it's TINY, and you dont know if your cursor is in it
[13:00] <oimon> i'm beginning to see that unity is so-called because the options available to the user are converging on "one-way" of doing things
[13:01] <gordonjcp> oimon: it's t-shirt weather here, where are you?
[13:01] <oimon> gordonjcp: under a blanket in my office
[13:03] <diplo> heh very true zleap, also since losing about 5 stone I now feel the cold everywhere :(
[13:03] <diplo> gordonjcp, near bath and it's still -2 ish here
[13:03] <gordonjcp> diplo: this is one of the reasons I don't really want to lose any weight
[13:03] <diplo> And i think oimon is near reading
[13:03] <gordonjcp> METAR EGPF 081250Z 12004KT 080V170 CAVOK 01/M03 Q1039
[13:03] <diplo> So south :)
[13:03] <oimon> diplo: e london right now
[13:03] <gordonjcp> 1C, -3 dew point
[13:04] <gordonjcp> bright and sunny
[13:04] <diplo> If there wasn't a wind, I'd be fine but that wind chill is the killer
[13:04] <oimon> to be fair, nowhere in britain is 'tiny shorts weather'
[13:10]  * gordonjcp has been working 270' above ground level most of the morning, at just about the highest point in Glasgow
[13:11] <diplo> Well you have given away why you don't feel cold, well know fact Glaswegians don't feel it :D
[13:11] <popey> czajkowski: bug i expect, just noticed myself
[13:11] <diplo> known*
[13:12] <diplo> My gran is from there, never has heating on at home :(
[13:14] <davmor2> czajkowski: the launcher thing is gords fault,  and don't believe him when he denies it fanatically ;)
[13:15] <BigRedS> anyone got any favourite am-i-on-any-spam-blacklist sites?
[13:15] <gordonjcp> diplo: I'm not a Glaswegian
[13:16] <diplo> Oh :$
[13:29] <shauno> looking for a http proxy that'll keep a complete copy of everything that passes; any suggestions?  (debugging embedded devices, not stalking)
[13:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> shauno: wireshark ;-)
[13:30] <shauno> heh, that's a pain in the rear to parse. trying to pull xml that's being posted to the server
[13:33] <daubers> shauno: Will squid not do that?
[13:34] <BigRedS> ew. squid.
[13:35] <BigRedS> I did have a nifty thing that, despite being written in java, was quite good for getting json out of the traffic. I can't remember what it was, though
[13:35] <shauno> trying to figure out if squid will do it atm.  the documentation (and config) is fairly monstrous for atypical setups :/
[14:19] <shauno> I love that we're trying to reverse-engineer our own devices because it's easier than getting documentation from bangalore :/
[14:23] <Myrtti> shauno: http://mitmproxy.org/ ?
[14:23] <Myrtti> http://mclov.in/2012/02/08/path-uploads-your-entire-address-book-to-their-servers.html
[14:24]  * popey tickles gord with hud
[14:30] <shauno> Myrtti: that looks like a damned fine start, thanks
[14:33] <ali1234> shauno: wrieshark -> "follow tcp stream"
[14:33] <ali1234> i do it all the time to rip video from the bbc
[14:33] <ali1234> er, i mean, i never do that
[14:39] <ali1234> time to try out gnome-shell again
[14:40] <occupy64k> have been using gnome shell for quite a while now
[14:40] <ali1234> i see this is still hilariously bad, but i'm hoping to get MGSE installed and maybe that will fix it
[14:40] <BigRedS> it's not changed appreciably recently as far as I can tell
[14:40] <BigRedS> I am using Debian's, though
[14:41] <occupy64k> https://extensions.gnome.org/
[14:41] <ali1234> why does the taskbar thing at the top only show the current application?
[14:42] <BigRedS> because the point of that taskbar at the top is simply to use up excess vertical pixels
[14:42] <ali1234> lol two onscreen keyboards.
[14:43] <ali1234> onboard *and* the gnome one (which is miles better than onboard btw)
[14:44] <ali1234> the indicator menus are very racy
[14:44] <ali1234> in the sense that they suffer from race conditions and do things you don't expect them to
[14:45] <occupy64k> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/56/shutdown-by-default/
[14:45] <ali1234> whats that?
[14:45] <ali1234> "This extension is incompatible with your version of GNOME."
[14:46] <occupy64k> One of the top issues with gnome shell is the lack of a shutdown option by default
[14:46] <ali1234> i never shut down this machine
[14:46] <occupy64k> :-)
[14:46] <ali1234> i won't be able to use this unless they fix the menus though
[14:47] <occupy64k> what's up with the menus?
[14:47] <ali1234> when i click on say the accessability menu it activates high contrast mode 50% of the time
[14:48] <ali1234> because the menus are too slow
[14:48] <ali1234> and i've already moved the mouse down over the first item before it processes the mouse up
[14:49] <BigRedS> occupy64k: that can't be one of the top issues!
[14:49] <occupy64k> My machine is pretty old, but the response to clicking on the accessibility menu seems fast
[14:49] <BigRedS> it's pretty high on the daft scale, but there's much more annoying things than just having to hold down alt
[14:49] <ali1234> maybe your machine isn't under heavy load most of the time like mine is
[14:49] <occupy64k> Well there was a big hoo-haar about it when gnome shell was released
[14:49] <occupy64k> probably not
[14:49] <BigRedS> yeah, I think that's more its daftness than its annoyance
[14:50] <ali1234> i see this has the same "shell game" effect as unity when trying to switch between similar windows
[14:51] <ali1234> erm... how do i minimize windows?
[14:52] <occupy64k> most of the time you don't need to
[14:52] <occupy64k> but you can right click on the title
[14:52] <BigRedS> ali1234: install gnome-tweak-tool and you can get the buttons back
[14:52] <ali1234> what makes you think that most of the time i don't need to?
[14:52] <ali1234> how else am i supposed to access the windows behind a window?
[14:52] <occupy64k> I never really use minimize in gnome shell
[14:52] <daubers> ali1234: You're supposed to have 1 window per workspace (apparently)
[14:53] <BigRedS> someone's made a blog post describing how to unbreak most of the silly things in gnome-shell
[14:53] <occupy64k> super key
[14:53] <BigRedS> occupy64k: yeah, but you're probably not ali1234
[14:53] <occupy64k> it's just a different kind of UI, so takes some adjustment
[14:53] <BigRedS> but, yes, one founding concept of gnome3 does seem to be intentionally mistaking workspaces for windows
[14:53] <BigRedS> er, gnome-shell
[14:54] <occupy64k> not necessarily.  I often have multiple windows per workspace
[14:54] <occupy64k> but just use the super key or alt tab to switch
[14:54] <BigRedS> ali1234: http://piecesoflint.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/how-to-tweak-gnome-3-to-your-needs/ is what I do whenever I install gnome-shell now
[14:55] <BigRedS> occupy64k: yeah, I know you can. But this disappearing workspaces thing, for example, must break workspaces for so many people
[14:55] <BigRedS> I've tried to get the hang of it and I can't work out how I'm supposed to use them when they're never where I left them
[14:56] <occupy64k> you mean if you remove all windows, the workspace disappears?
[14:57] <BigRedS> yeah
[14:57] <BigRedS> so when I close my terminal on #1, suddenly my web stuff is on #1 not #2, mail on #2 not #3 etc.
[14:57] <occupy64k> There might be some option for fixed workspaces, but I havn't used it
[14:57] <BigRedS> so I actually need to look at these workspaces as I scroll through them, else I overshoot
[14:57] <BigRedS> there's an extension for it
[14:58] <BigRedS> but I don't understand why that would ever be desired behaviour
[14:58] <occupy64k> I guess that the habit for fixed workspaces is historical
[14:59] <BigRedS> I suspect it's for good reason, too
[15:00] <ali1234> how do i get a menu?
[15:00] <ali1234> how do i get rid of the dash?
[15:01] <occupy64k> I think the dash is fixed
[15:01] <occupy64k> rather like Unity
[15:01] <ali1234> so any time i hit the top left corner i'm going to get chucked into a confusing ugly mess?
[15:01] <ali1234> can i at least prevent it from ever being shown somehow?
[15:03] <ali1234> i keep accidentally closing firefox because that's the only way to get back to the windows behind it :(
[15:03] <occupy64k> just hit super key then select the window
[15:04] <ali1234> for each window? no, that will take ages
[15:04] <occupy64k> It depends how many windows there are, I suppose
[15:04] <ali1234> 4
[15:05] <ali1234> i only need one of them, but they all look identical
[15:05] <occupy64k> oh sometimes I have more than that
[15:05] <ali1234> so there is no way to tell which one is the one i want based on the dash
[15:05] <occupy64k> are you trying to create multiple terminals?
[15:05] <ali1234> yes
[15:05] <occupy64k> ok, for that I just use Terminator
[15:06] <occupy64k> it's much easier than multiple windows
[15:06] <ali1234> and multiple text editor windows as well
[15:06] <ali1234> can you undock windows from terminator?
[15:06] <occupy64k> no
[15:06] <ali1234> rearrange them?
[15:06] <occupy64k> I think so
[15:06]  * hamitron is "liking" KDE
[15:06] <ali1234> what if i want to temporarily maximise one of them?
[15:07] <dutchie> ali1234: yep
[15:07] <ali1234> can i do it without learning obscure keyboard shortcust which don't work in any other programs?
[15:07] <dutchie> you can do it using a remappable keyboard shortcut
[15:08] <occupy64k> I think the shorcuts are definable
[15:08] <occupy64k> you can also have tabs
[15:09] <ali1234> tabs are no use, i need to see several terminals at the same time and move them around between two monitors arbitrarily
[15:09] <dutchie> you can split/maximise from the right-click context menu also
[15:09] <hamitron> sounds to me like it can work, if you aren't stuck to "old ways"
[15:09] <occupy64k> indeed
[15:09] <occupy64k> it's a different kind of UI
[15:10]  * hamitron unfortunately likes old ways
[15:10] <BigRedS> I got used to it relatively quickly
[15:10] <ali1234> KDE has a lot going for it, mainly it has a sensible window list
[15:10] <BigRedS> had a go on cinnamon at fosdem and it felt a lot like 2002
[15:10] <ali1234> i would use it if it wasn't so resource heavy, ugly, and crashy
[15:10] <hamitron> well, I only used KDE, because it was default and I haven't used it since 2.0
[15:11] <hamitron> ;)
[15:11] <hamitron> crashy and resource heavy?
[15:11] <ali1234> yes. all those gradients don't render themselves
[15:11] <hamitron> not crashed on me yet, and as light as Gnome 2
[15:12] <ali1234> you mean gnome 2 and compiz right?
[15:12] <hamitron> probably
[15:12] <ali1234> kwin compositing doesn't even work on my computer
[15:12] <hamitron> :/
[15:12] <ali1234> i get corrupted graphics after about an hour
[15:12] <ali1234> then it crashes
[15:12] <occupy64k> you can maximize and restore for temporary full screen terminals in Terminator
[15:13] <hamitron> I won't be using it long term.... just using it, so i can say I have :)
[15:14] <ali1234> ok, now i've installed some extensions, how do i enable them?
[15:14] <occupy64k> I don't think you need to enable them
[15:14] <ali1234> i think i need to restart it
[15:15] <ali1234> nope, that did nothing
[15:15] <ali1234> ah now they appear in gnome-tweak-tool
[15:16] <ali1234> ah there we go
[15:16] <ali1234> now i have a bottom panel and a window list
[15:16] <ali1234> unfortunately no multi monitor support
[15:16] <occupy64k> I only have one monitor :-(
[15:16] <bigcalm> xfce will be with me for a while longer I think
[15:16] <ali1234> well that's a deal breaker
[15:17] <ali1234> back to unity then i guess
[15:17] <hamitron> xfce and lxde I like
[15:17] <hamitron> :)
[15:17] <hamitron> fluxbox too
[15:17] <hamitron> but depends on my mood
[15:17] <BigRedS> no multi-monitor support? Works for me
[15:17] <BigRedS> the old fashioned way - just configure it in the screens bit of system settings
[15:18] <BigRedS> What might annoy you, though, is that the secondary monitor doesn't move with teh workspaces
[15:18] <BigRedS> so if you stick something on the secondary montiro in workspace one and go to workspace 2, the primary montor moves to workspace2 and the secondary doesn't change
[15:18] <BigRedS> I'm still trying to work out if that's what I want it to do
[15:21] <ali1234> unity 2d multimonitor is still broken too
[15:27] <occupy64k> I expect that games like FlightGear would look good across multiple monitors
[15:33] <ali1234> they do, but only if you can get the window manager to cooperate
[16:03] <ali1234> you know what boggles my mind most about unity?
[16:03] <ali1234> imagine you have a lot of windows open
[16:03] <ali1234> and you click on the firefox launcher
[16:04] <ali1234> but it doesn't give you the firefox window that you wanted
[16:04] <ali1234> at this point you are expected to repeat the action which just failed to give you the result you wanted
[16:04] <ali1234> how is that logical or useful?
[16:05] <ali1234> if insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results then unity is designed for people who are insane
[16:10] <BigRedS> yeah, the alt-tab behaviour is mostly the bit that makes me wonder if anything else is really supposed to make sense
[16:10] <ali1234> the alt-tab in unity is probably the best thing about it
[16:10] <BigRedS> what? Oh, this is gnome3 you're on about?
[16:10] <ali1234> unfortunately i don't use alt-tab or any keyboard shortcuts for window management
[16:11] <BigRedS> hah, clearly it does work for somebody, then
[16:11] <ali1234> yeah, basically unity alt-tab = good for people who don't use alt-tab :)
[16:11] <BigRedS> ah yeah, that'd do it :)
[16:11] <ali1234> but i like how you can go in to each application group
[16:12] <ali1234> see unity's alt-tab is the only window management method it has that is consistent
[16:12] <ali1234> everything else has totally unpredictable result
[16:13] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwlpdfmtVGA
[16:13]  * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
[16:13] <BigRedS> you can go into groups in gnome shell. I do it with the arrow keys, but I suspect th emouse works, too
[16:13] <ali1234> i demand that my graphical user interfaces are entirely mouse driven
[16:14] <ali1234> if i wanted to use the keyboard i'd be using a shell window
[16:14] <ali1234> and i often am
[16:14]  * davmor2 prods the happy hippy czajkowski with a big stick
[16:14] <BigRedS> I'm amazed that I've agreed with you so much this far, then :)
[16:14] <ali1234> but i like to be able to rearrange my shell windows with the mouse, not obscure keyboard shortcuts
[16:14] <BigRedS> i dislike unity because of how inoperable it is without a mouse
[16:15] <bigcalm> Does 'Nothing' in VB.NET mean the same as 'null' in PHP?
[16:15] <ali1234> if i am using a UI and you make me look down at the keyboard to press alt-tab, that slows me right now
[16:15] <ali1234> well unity is unusable whether you use mouse or keyboard basically
[16:15] <BigRedS> Yeah, I get the same when I'm mid-work and need to fund the mouse
[16:15] <BigRedS> haha, fair enough
[16:15] <ali1234> that's what unity is about: it is a great leveller
[16:15] <ali1234> it is equally hard to use for newbs and professional
[16:16] <ali1234> you have to use both keyboard and mouse to be fast with unity
[16:17] <ali1234> and it also helps if you never open more than 3 windows
[16:17] <BigRedS> i think i decided it sort-of worked if I only had one workspace
[16:17] <ali1234> yes, that's because in unity there is no difference at all between a window on another workspace and a window that is minimized
[16:17] <BigRedS> in that I could relatively reliably find the window I wanted
[16:18] <BigRedS> yeah, there seems to be two classes of window - "this one" and "the rest of them"
[16:18] <ali1234> either way it will show in the launcher, and either wway clicking it will reveal a load of other windows you don't want, and obscure all the windows you had before, which is utterly confusing
[16:18] <BigRedS> and I don't really want "this one" in my alt-tab
[16:18] <BigRedS> oh yeah, I tried the launcher buttons for a bit
[16:19] <ali1234> i have learned to always middle click them now
[16:19] <ali1234> left clicking them is just asking for about 50 windows to pop up and cover the whole screen
[16:19] <BigRedS> what does middle-click do?
[16:19] <ali1234> opens a new one of whatever it is
[16:19] <ali1234> ie what you'd expect left click to do
[16:19] <BigRedS> oh
[16:19] <BigRedS> yeah
[16:20] <ali1234> every day i have to close about 50 firefox and terminals though
[16:20] <ali1234> because i lose track of them and just open new ones
[16:20] <ali1234> because it's less painful than window management in unity
[16:21] <ali1234> a typical situation is i get an email saying "fix this thing"
[16:21] <ali1234> so i try to open a shell to fix it
[16:21] <ali1234> that takes me to another workspace where i already had a shell
[16:21] <ali1234> then i've lost the email
[16:21] <ali1234> so i have to go back to the email, and this time middle click the launcher
[16:22] <ali1234> so basically i've learned never to left click launchers and just go directly to the last step
[16:22] <BigRedS> yeah, I'd have just stopped using unity
[16:22] <ali1234> i tried but everything else is worse
[16:22] <BigRedS> I've only tried to use it on a machine where I need to do any work once, and after about five minutes I just installed gnome3
[16:23] <ali1234> gnome-shell is the worst of the bunch
[16:23] <AlanBell> gnome seem to be on stronger stuff than the Canonical design team at the moment, they just removed the lovely dialog with a preview you get when you take a screenshot
[16:23] <AlanBell> it now just dumps a timestamped file in ~/pictures
[16:23] <ali1234> to be fair that dialog does need a lot of work
[16:24] <ali1234> it's pretty useless as is
[16:24] <ali1234> i bet they'll replace it with something better soonish
[16:24] <AlanBell> it pops up, shows me the screenshot, I can then copy and paste it into something, or save it somewhere I want it
[16:24] <ali1234> it needs to support send-to/open-with/xdg-open or whatever
[16:25] <BigRedS> I think both teams are utterly mad
[16:25] <ali1234> yep, no disagreement on that one
[16:25] <gord> i'd like to be able to crop in that dialog, that would be neat
[16:25] <gord> i'm always cropping screenshots
[16:25] <ali1234> yeah that too
[16:25] <BigRedS> that said, I've not looked for any unity analog for the gnome shell extensions I've installed
[16:25] <AlanBell> it would be nice
[16:26] <BigRedS> didn't one of them have a way of doing that? Hit print screen, then draw on it what you wanted and then hit save
[16:26] <BigRedS> maybe kde. Sure it was a linuxy thing
[16:27] <gord> i should just add cropping support to eye of gnome someday, thats 99% of what i have to open gimp for
[16:31] <ali1234> KDE screenshot probably reuses a whole paint program widget. that's how KDE works
[16:31] <ali1234> there's only 1 widget and it does everything
[16:35] <popey> oi aquarius
[16:35] <popey> if i right click a file and publish to u1, i get a notify telling me the url
[16:35] <popey> how am I supposed to use that url given i cant click notifications?
[16:35] <ali1234> LOL
[16:35] <ali1234> quickly hit printscreen
[16:35] <ali1234> oh wait that doesn't work any more
[16:36] <popey> i can get the url by going to the website one.ubuntu.com and finding the file and then clicking more then copy and paste the url, but thats long winded and rubbish
[16:36] <davmor2> popey: right click on the folder again, select copy url
[16:36] <davmor2> then paste
[16:36] <popey> its a file
[16:36] <popey> not a folder
[16:36] <davmor2> same thing
[16:37] <popey> thats odd, that option was _not_ there earlier
[16:37] <popey> thanks
[16:37] <davmor2> popey: it isn't till it is on u1 and made published
[16:37] <daubers> The devs internal popey is working faster than the real popey /o\
[16:39] <bigcalm> Aww, I was hoping that somebody was monitoring this channel and making changes based on conversations
[16:39] <ali1234> hmm i have not tried razor-qt yet
[16:40] <aquarius> popey, ya?
[16:40] <popey> make u1 faster
[16:40] <czajkowski> wow that is a big picutre of ian http://www.canonical.com/about-canonical
[16:40] <aquarius> popey, see davmor's comment.
[16:40] <popey> see my comment ☺
[16:40] <aquarius> once you've had the notification, the menu item to get the url should be available.
[16:40] <czajkowski> aquarius: warmed up yet
[16:41] <aquarius> czajkowski, just about :)
[16:41] <popey> thats what i did
[16:41] <popey> and the menu was all grey
[16:41] <bigcalm> aquarius: how did the 3rd house viewing go?
[16:41]  * popey tests again
[16:41] <popey> bah, bloody works now
[16:41] <aquarius> :-)
[16:41] <czajkowski> hmm may have to change my themefrom ambiance, trying to change zoom size to read pdfs and I can't see the menu bar or options well
[16:41] <aquarius> popey, interesting. Shouldn't be. You might be being bitten by a nautilus-integration bug. Are you running U1 nightlies?
[16:41] <popey> no, 12.04 tho
[16:42] <aquarius> bigcalm, they seem really keen on my house... but they haven't made an offer yet, and they've gotta sell their flat
[16:42] <bigcalm> .
[16:42] <bigcalm> aquarius: really hope it goes through this time :)
[16:42] <aquarius> popey, you may want to ask on #ubutnuone whether it's a good idea to run the nightlies at the moment and see if it's fixed, if you can reliably replicate the problem?
[16:42] <aquarius> bigcalm, so do I, pal, so do I
[16:42]  * bigcalm swears at vb.net
[16:43] <popey> thanks aquarius
[16:44] <czajkowski> danfish: you gotten your rugby tickets yet?
[16:47] <AlanBell> czajkowski: they told me they would send tickets a week before the match
[16:47] <AlanBell> can't quite believe I am going to a rugby game yet
[16:48]  * TheOpenSourcerer has had enough of phoning today & goes to make chicken and roast veg fajitas for dinner :-D
[16:54] <czajkowski> AlanBell: aye just wondered if anyone had gotten them
[16:56] <jpds> Hmm.
[16:58] <popey> AlanBell: i went to a rugby game once.
[16:59] <popey> once
[16:59] <dutchie> hi folks
[16:59] <dutchie> how is everyone
[17:01] <popey> GREAT!
[17:01] <dutchie> woohoo!
[17:01] <popey> YES!
[17:01] <dutchie> feeling up to diagnosing some wireless network weirdness?
[17:02] <popey> NO!
[17:02] <dutchie> :(
[17:02] <popey> doesn't sound as great in the negative does it?
[17:02] <popey> sorry, on the phone
[17:02] <dutchie> fair enough
[17:02] <dutchie> tbh i'm slightly sure that the main problem is my phone not connecting to wireless networks
[17:04] <gord> i also went to a rugby game once
[17:04] <gord> it was cold
[17:04] <gord> i had to stand up
[17:06] <ali1234> hmm this razor-qt is suprisingly good
[17:08] <davmor2> ali1234: everytime I hear Razor I think of the moto Razr for some reason and think the -qt tag is just the next gen version :D
[17:08] <ali1234> no its a desktop environment
[17:09] <ali1234> it's better than xfce but not quite as good as gnome 2
[17:09] <ali1234> which isn't bad considering that xfce has been around nearly as long as gnome 2
[17:09] <ali1234> and this is only about 3 months old
[17:10] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[17:11] <hamitron> is it still a good idea to use the same type (GTK/Qt) of apps?
[17:11] <hamitron> just wondering if qt has everything needed
[17:11] <ali1234> hamitron: if you are using gnome then yes
[17:11] <ali1234> hamitron: if you're using KDE everything is such a mess that you won't notice any of the problems this causes
[17:12] <hamitron> hehe :D
[17:12] <czajkowski> davmor2: poke
[17:12] <ali1234> hamitron: same goes for XFCE actually
[17:12] <hamitron> I just remember doing it to save memory
[17:12] <hamitron> but in the past, I avoided Qt
[17:12] <davmor2> czajkowski: that's not bad nearly a month and a half to stop you being nice when I prod you :P
[17:12] <ali1234> Qt isn't a problem
[17:12] <ali1234> it's KDE
[17:13] <hamitron> that razor-qt looks interesting
[17:13] <ali1234> Qt can look exactly like Gtk... KDE can't
[17:13] <hamitron> I'm gonna have to try it
[17:13] <ali1234> although Gtk can look exactly like KDE
[17:13] <hamitron> looks don't worry me
[17:13] <ali1234> but KDE looks so horrible that nobody cares
[17:13] <gord> Qt can't really look/feel exactly like gtk
[17:13] <gord> its always off, much to my annoyance
[17:14] <ali1234> nowhere near as much as KDE though
[17:14] <hamitron> I don't don't want loads of different libs loaded, if it still makes a difference
[17:14] <gord> well kde is just put everything you might ever want to do in a menu
[17:14] <hamitron> :))
[17:14] <gord> i opened up the audio effects menu in kdenlive, it took three full (1200 pixels) sized menu panes for it to list all the entries
[17:15] <hamitron> :/
[17:15] <ali1234> that isn't even the problem... KDE simply doesn't have a theme that can look like Gtk
[17:15] <ali1234> not even close
[17:15] <ali1234> and not even if you trawl through the kde-look.org third party themes
[17:16] <gord> well there is the theme that uses gtk to do the rendering, that is pretty close
[17:16] <gord> it just doesn't look like gnome because their UI design is different, different HIGs
[17:16] <davmor2> ali1234: yeah but you have a weird taste in desktop
[17:16] <ali1234> yep, but then you still have window decorations, panels, and anything involving plasma, which can't be themed at all
[17:17] <hamitron> I can't even see what is hugely wrong with Qt vs GTK apps here :/
[17:18] <ali1234> also KDE doesn't have a theme that uses Gtk, you are thinking of Qt
[17:18] <gord> yeah it does, i've used it, in kde
[17:19] <ali1234> then there's the font problems
[17:20] <hamitron> so all these "problems" are purely cosmetic?
[17:20] <hamitron> :/
[17:20] <ali1234> yes
[17:20] <ali1234> all problems with KDE are cosmetic
[17:20] <hamitron> I'll stop worrying then
[17:20] <ali1234> all problems with gnome are functional
[17:22] <hamitron> guess that leaves unity
[17:22] <hamitron> ;)
[17:22] <ali1234> all the problems in unity are functional too
[17:23] <hamitron> so what would you complain about LXDE?
[17:24] <hamitron> I guess it maybe isn't very configurable
[17:24] <ali1234> well it's as ugly as KDE and as broken and gnome 2 and also it has no developers to fix it
[17:24] <ali1234> and the same goes for XFCE
[17:24] <hamitron> and all that
[17:24] <MooDoo> :)
[17:24] <gordonjcp> ali1234: so which GUI *do* you like?
[17:25] <hamitron> he is a "critic"
[17:25] <hamitron> ;)
[17:25] <ali1234> gordonjcp: gnome 2
[17:25] <hamitron> as am I tbh
[17:25] <gordonjcp> so use it, then
[17:25] <ali1234> it is no longer supported
[17:26] <ali1234> second choice is unity
[17:26] <ali1234> that's what i use
[17:26] <hamitron> I still think there must be enough people to continue supporting Gnome 2
[17:27] <ali1234> you can't make a product as good as gnome 2 without financial backing
[17:27] <ali1234> for evidence of this you only have to look at everything else
[17:27] <gordonjcp> ali1234: bummer
[17:27] <ali1234> unity is nearly as good, everything else is absolutely awful
[17:28] <gordonjcp> ali1234: maybe you should start a project to revive gnome 2, or port the gnome 2 desktop environment to gnome 3
[17:28] <ali1234> gordonjcp: unfortunately i don't have the financial resources that would require
[17:29] <gordonjcp> ali1234: sucks to be you, then
[17:29] <ali1234> yeah
[17:29] <occupy64k> I think Mint are doing something like that - gnome 3 which looks like gnome 2
[17:29] <gordonjcp> occupy64k: yes, cinnamon
[17:29] <ali1234> but i can still spread the suckage around by pointing out very loudly the problems with the alternatives
[17:29] <gordonjcp> all software sucks
[17:30] <ali1234> occupy64k: yes i just tried that. it has no multimonitor support (because it is gnome 3) and it doesn't really look like gnome 2 other than having a bottom panel
[17:30] <gordonjcp> as for me, I've just had to learn to put up with the massive shortcomings in all OSes that aren't BeOS
[17:30] <occupy64k> never used BeOS
[17:30] <occupy64k> what happened to it?
[17:31] <hamitron> has anything come of that Gnome 2 fork?
[17:31] <ali1234> no idea. i think they gave up
[17:31] <brobostigon> for my old friend samantha i have to say this, who's birthday it is. my only other friend in world, and my soul mate. :'(
[17:31] <gordonjcp> occupy64k: it didn't make any money and Be went out of business
[17:31] <brobostigon> happy birthday, :)
[17:31] <gordonjcp> occupy64k: various half-assed rescue plans were floated
[17:32] <occupy64k> presumably it wasn't open source
[17:32] <gordonjcp> not in the least
[17:32] <brobostigon> haiku is OSS.
[17:32] <gordonjcp> there is, however, Haiku
[17:32] <occupy64k> hence the classic propriatary software death
[17:32] <brobostigon> :)
[17:32] <gordonjcp> which *is* open-source and is getting more awesomer every day
[17:32] <brobostigon> agreed gordonjcp
[17:32] <brobostigon> :)
[17:32] <ali1234> why exactly do people like beos?
[17:32] <hamitron> Gnome 2 is open source, and will be dead ;)
[17:32] <occupy64k> is haiku a version of BeOS?
[17:32] <ali1234> i mean it has a user interface comparable to TWM
[17:33] <brobostigon> occupy64k: it is OSS, and inspired by BeOS.
[17:33] <ali1234> back in the day it had good multimedia capabilities, but all computers have that now
[17:33] <bigcalm> directhex: ping
[17:33] <directhex> ?
[17:33] <bigcalm> Aha
[17:34] <brobostigon> brb
[17:34] <bigcalm> I need to look at the source for PasswordDeriveBytes() in mono. Call me dumb, but where would I find this online?
[17:35] <davmor2> bigcalm: on google :)
[17:35] <bigcalm> davmor2: would you google that for me?
[17:35] <hamitron> I never saw the point of paying for BeOS with limited applications, when you can pay for MS Windows and have more support
[17:35] <hamitron> ;)
[17:35] <ali1234> http://www.koders.com/csharp/fid7261309A0690C1A46CB79F66ED888E01580D0869.aspx
[17:35] <hamitron> brb, phone
[17:36] <ali1234> bigcalm: 7th hit or something
[17:36] <bigcalm> ali1234: yes, that's C#. I wanted to make sure that everybody did it the same way
[17:36] <ali1234> what do you mean?
[17:36] <bigcalm> The version I really need to know about is for vb.net
[17:37] <ali1234> what?
[17:37] <bigcalm> :)
[17:37] <ali1234> it's the same
[17:37] <bigcalm> Good
[17:37] <bigcalm> Next is, if an argument is passed as Nothing, what's the default value used?
[17:37] <ali1234> which function?
[17:38] <occupy64k> sounds like undefined bahavior
[17:38] <bigcalm> Dim password_derive_bytes As New PasswordDeriveBytes( password, Nothing, "SHA384", 1000 )
[17:38] <ali1234> you'd think that, but .net is insane and passes Nothing all the time
[17:38] <ali1234> so the constructor
[17:38] <occupy64k> Can you actually run VB programs on linux?
[17:38] <ali1234> no but you can run vb.net programs
[17:38] <davmor2> bigcalm: https://raw.github.com/mono/mono/master/mcs/class/corlib/System.Security.Cryptography/PasswordDeriveBytes.cs :P
[17:38] <bigcalm> As far as I can make out, Nothing passed in the 2nd is the salt
[17:39] <ali1234> actually you can run vb programs in wine sometimes
[17:39] <bigcalm> davmor2: thank you
[17:39] <occupy64k> via mono?
[17:39] <hamitron> isn't there that VB non-free software?
[17:40] <davmor2> bigcalm: that was mono source for PasswordDeriveBytes() and then looking at the stackoverflow answer :)
[17:40] <hamitron> realbasic or something
[17:40] <occupy64k> a long, long time ago in another universe I sometimes wrote VB programs
[17:41] <bigcalm> Looking at the source, I can't see a default value set for rgbSalt
[17:42] <ali1234> there isn;t one
[17:42] <ali1234> there is code to handle null though
[17:42] <ali1234> so most likely if you pass Nothing it will not use any salt
[17:43] <hamitron> erm, no more funding for Kubuntu?
[17:43] <bigcalm> I need to replicate this function in PHP. So if no salt is used, not sure how I'm meant to pass that into PHP things that expect one
[17:43] <bigcalm> Maybe null will do
[17:43] <occupy64k> Kubuntu has been defunded
[17:43] <ali1234> pass in empty string
[17:44] <ali1234> salt is just appended usually
[17:44] <occupy64k> or will be after 12.04
[17:44] <bigcalm> Ok
[17:44] <bigcalm> Ta
[17:44] <ali1234> you'll know it works if you get the same answer
[17:44] <bigcalm> That's tricky as I'm relying upon a file sent to me by the client that has encrypted it the vb.net way
[17:45] <bigcalm> Hopefully diff will work on the 2 binary files
[17:45] <ali1234> yeah but you can test it yourself on any input
[17:47] <davmor2> occupy64k: all that means is the one paid dev with canonical won't be working on it solely and the community will need to step up and do the bit he was doing,  so it's basically the same
[17:47] <occupy64k> indeed
[17:47] <bigcalm> Is sha1('foo') the same as hash('sha1', 'foo') I wonder
[17:48] <bigcalm> TESTING!
[17:49] <bigcalm> Yes, phew!
[17:54] <bigcalm> In the vb.net code, there's the line: key = password_derive_bytes.GetBytes(key_size_bits \ 8)
[17:55] <bigcalm> I assume that \ 8 is not the same as / 8
[17:55] <bigcalm> If that's the case, what is \?
[17:56] <gord> ... divide?
[17:56] <gord> divide bits by 8 to get bytes
[17:57] <MartijnVdS> OLRLY
[17:57] <bigcalm> Divide is /
[17:57] <shauno> integer divide.  instead of real (float) divide
[17:57] <bigcalm> Oh
[17:57] <bigcalm> shauno: thank you, not something I was aware of
[17:57] <shauno> eg, 5\8 is 1, not 0.something
[17:57] <bigcalm> Right
[17:57] <bigcalm> I think in PHP that would be 5 % 8
[17:58] <shauno> % is modulus, the remainder
[17:58] <bigcalm> Or not
[17:58] <bigcalm> :)
[18:01] <bigcalm> int(5/8)
[18:02] <bigcalm> Rather: (int)(5 / 8)
[18:03] <bigcalm> Now to work out what .GetBytes() does :)
[18:03] <bigcalm> After a cuppa tea!
[18:21] <AlanBell> anyone want to try a hacky prototype of significant awesomeness http://paste.ubuntu.com/834248/
[18:21] <AlanBell> pop that somewhere and run it with python, then right click launcher items and look at the quicklists
[18:22] <AlanBell> you can now raise *one* window, that you intended to \o/
[18:22]  * bigcalm thinks he would need to be running Unity
[18:22] <AlanBell> it doesn't use signals properly and add and remove quicklists as windows come and go
[18:22] <bigcalm> Didn't know you were a coder, AlanBell
[18:23] <AlanBell> but it does mean I can now use unity
[18:23] <AlanBell> bigcalm: I just play one on TV
[18:23] <bigcalm> Haha
[18:24] <bigcalm> Saw the Doogie Howser Old Spice ad yesterday on youtube. Was amusing
[18:27] <popey> dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: No such interface `(null)' on object at path /org/ayatana/bamf/matcher
[18:27] <popey> AlanBell: ^
[18:29] <AlanBell> hmm
[18:30] <ali1234> same
[18:30] <ali1234> AlanBell: are you on precise?
[18:31] <AlanBell> yes
[18:31] <ali1234> unity 5.2?
[18:31] <AlanBell> yes
[18:32] <ali1234> maybe i need to update
[18:32] <AlanBell> unity 5.2.0
[18:32] <AlanBell> but I am not using any new bits I think
[18:33] <ali1234> well i have 400mb of updates to install
[18:33] <AlanBell> don't suppose you have any apps running that don't have a .desktop file do you?
[18:33] <ali1234> um, most of them?
[18:33] <popey> i am up to date
[18:34] <popey> i do
[18:34]  * popey closes it
[18:34] <popey> still barfs
[18:34] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/834273/
[18:35] <AlanBell> ah, that is helpful, thanks
[18:35] <popey> np
[18:37] <AlanBell> failing at the first hurdle :(
[18:38] <mgdm> Computer fails to launch display, try running fglrx instead of radeon - it cannot comprehend I have 2 monitors. Remove fglrx, reinstall radeon, now it works
[18:38] <mgdm> aaargh
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> Yay ati
[18:39] <mgdm> indeed
[18:45] <AlanBell> popey: ali1234 can you let me know if this gives the error or a load of dbus.String output http://paste.ubuntu.com/834288/
[18:46] <ali1234> No such interface `(null)' on object at path /org/ayatana/bamf/matcher
[18:46] <AlanBell> ok, I think you don't have bamfdaemon running or something
[18:47] <AlanBell> or it isn't talking on dbus
[18:47] <ali1234> *boggle*
[18:47] <popey> alan      2150  0.0  0.1 337456 13428 ?        Sl   07:13   0:06 /usr/lib/bamf/bamfdaemon
[18:47]  * AlanBell runs out of clues and asks gord for help
[18:48] <ali1234> what's that dbus browser called?
[18:48] <AlanBell> d-feet
[18:48] <ali1234> oh those updates are still installing :(
[18:54] <AlanBell> I would do a screenshot of d-feet if I could still use the screenshot facility
[18:55] <popey> printscreen?
[18:55] <ali1234> i've used it before
[18:55] <popey> or install shutter
[18:55] <ali1234> just can't get it installed until the updates finish
[18:55] <popey> shutter > gnome-screenshot
[18:55] <popey> printscreen works fine here, just saves to Pictures folder
[18:55] <AlanBell> popey: yeah, I have just been filing a bug, alt+prtscr takes the whole desktop
[18:55] <popey> oh dear
[18:56] <ali1234> yeah the screenshot thing is gone now :/
[18:56] <ali1234> need to reboot for kernel update
[18:56] <popey> works here
[18:56] <popey> prtscr does whole desktop. alt does window
[18:56] <AlanBell> plus alt+prtscr brings up the HUD :)
[18:56] <popey> ah, i dont have hud installed
[18:57] <popey> so hud is stealing the alt press then
[18:57] <AlanBell> ah, maybe that is why
[18:57] <bigcalm> Heretic!
[18:57] <AlanBell> gord ^^
[18:57] <AlanBell> gnome and canonical are ganging up to break things now :)
[18:59] <czajkowski> AlanBell: how does one get hud working
[18:59] <ali1234> "bamfdaemon closed unexpectedly"
[18:59] <popey> been doing that for 7 years
[18:59] <popey> you install it from a ppa
[18:59] <popey> once gord builds a new version
[18:59] <czajkowski> I did that following the instructions in the orange netbook
[19:00] <popey> 18:59:39 < popey> once gord builds a new version
[19:00] <czajkowski> ahhh
[19:00] <czajkowski> sorry
[19:00] <brobostigon> http://www.three.co.uk/Discover/Devices/Huawei/Web_Cube/White very similer to the myfi.
[19:00] <czajkowski> gord: if you could not break my machine while doing so that would be great
[19:00] <popey> its bsaed on previous version of unity
[19:00] <czajkowski> popey: how is the new laptop?
[19:00] <ali1234> AlanBell: still no dice
[19:00] <popey> czajkowski: love it
[19:01] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/bamfdfeet.png
[19:01] <czajkowski> popey: did you name it ?
[19:01] <popey> yes, it's called "Deep Thought"
[19:02] <popey> well, deep-thought
[19:03] <czajkowski> hehe
[19:04] <AlanBell> popey: I am using HUD and unity 5.2 I think
[19:04] <AlanBell> just not the unity PPA with the "pressure" stuff and multi-monitor launchers
[19:04] <ali1234> 5.2 doesn't support hud
[19:05] <Myrtti> boo, if only I'd speak German, I could apply for a job for Spotify :-<
[19:05] <ali1234> argh stupid overlay scrollbars
[19:05] <popey> AlanBell: dunno how
[19:06] <popey> ahh, not the hud ppa?
[19:06] <AlanBell> alan@alanlaptop:~$ unity --version
[19:06] <AlanBell> unity 5.2.0
[19:06] <popey> well i did have hud, i upgraded and lost it
[19:07] <AlanBell> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/unity-team/hud/ubuntu precise main
[19:08] <AlanBell> actually I wonder when I last restarted unity
[19:08] <popey> yeah
[19:08] <popey> restart and you'll lose hud
[19:08] <AlanBell> and bamfdaemon for that matter
[19:13] <AlanBell> ok, I can reproduce the problem now :(
[19:13] <czajkowski> AlanBell: oh that crashes for you too
[19:14] <czajkowski> I'd really like the one on 1st login to go away, keep getting crash
[19:14] <czajkowski> drives me a bit batty
[19:16] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9CrDDX6i0E
[19:19] <popey> what if you do it right at the top?
[19:19] <ali1234> AlanBell: http://imagebin.org/197945
[19:19] <ali1234> popey: it doesn't make any difference
[19:19] <AlanBell> yeah, and you can right click and execute it, can't figure out why it stopped running from python
[19:34] <ali1234> oh, someone already reported the scrollbar thing :)
[19:35] <ali1234> which means i get to confirm it \o/
[19:35] <ali1234> and post my video
[19:37] <mgdm> Wooo, I get to reinstall Natty at the weekend
[19:38] <AlanBell> ah yes, that one, you have to try to outwit the scrollbar to get to the resizer
[19:38] <ali1234> yes, incredibly irritating that
[19:38] <ali1234> it was bad enough in previous versions, it's even worse in precise
[19:38] <ali1234> you cannot outwit it any more
[19:38] <ali1234> because it appears anywhere on the edge
[19:39] <AlanBell> also kind of hard to resize windows from the right edge now
[19:39] <ali1234> feel free to hit "affects me too" on bug 907837
[19:55] <AlanBell> popey: ali1234 http://paste.ubuntu.com/834375/
[19:56] <AlanBell> dbus is now fussy about interfaces
[19:56] <ali1234> seems to work !
[19:57] <ali1234> it's messed up my nautilus windows though
[19:57] <AlanBell> ooh :)
[19:57] <ali1234> now i have a new icon i didn't have before, and the one at the top has no windows associated with it
[19:58] <AlanBell> yeah, I have no idea what it is doing with nautilus
[19:58] <ali1234> i think it doesn't register that nautilus == home folder
[19:58] <ali1234> dunno
[19:58] <ali1234> but this is pretty cool
[19:58] <AlanBell> nautilus==desktop root window
[19:58] <ali1234> well... f you say so
[19:59] <AlanBell> maybe
[19:59] <ali1234> if i click the home folder icon (default at the top) then i now always get a new window, and it registers under a new, different looking icon at the bottom
[19:59] <ali1234> and also it isn't listed in the quicklist
[19:59] <ali1234> does it even track new windows?
[20:00] <AlanBell> no, not really
[20:00] <ali1234> not at all :)
[20:00] <AlanBell> it does something every second
[20:00] <AlanBell> not quite sure what though
[20:01] <AlanBell> however, there are dbus signals that it should listen to in order to track windows
[20:03] <AlanBell> this is so nice I think I will finish it
[20:10] <brobostigon> what does reconciled mean ?
[20:12] <AlanBell> it means "checked off" against a bank statement or something
[20:13] <AlanBell> so I have a reciept for £70 for petrol, there it is on my bank statement, that statement line is now reconciled
[20:15] <brobostigon> i was refferring to https://tools.bitfolk.com/redmine/issues/93 i can make sense of,
[20:16] <brobostigon> cant*
[20:18] <AlanBell> they are not marking invoices as paid until they see it in the bank account
[20:19] <brobostigon> even if it has left mine a week earlier.
[20:19] <AlanBell> yeah, just means they have not got round to checking they have the money yet
[20:20] <brobostigon> ah,.
[20:20] <brobostigon> makes more sense now.
[20:22] <brobostigon> AlanBell: because, the last few months, i have prodded andy, because i havent understood why, and give him a prod, on the day, my money would be due.
[20:22] <brobostigon> as it didnt show on bitfolks admin panel.
[20:22] <AlanBell> :)
[20:22] <AlanBell> I would relax about it
[20:23] <brobostigon> i will now, now i know, that the panel doesnt reflect, when bitfolk have actually acknowleged the payment.
[20:42] <Lozzy_uk> hi, anyone know of a LAN messaging client I can use on both linux & win plz? or two that talk to each other even...
[20:46] <Azelphur> Lozzy_uk: afaik empathy or pidgin could do that
[20:47] <brobostigon> bonjour, over xmpp, yes.
[20:47] <Lozzy_uk> well I think I have the linux end figured for empathy
[20:47] <Lozzy_uk> not sure what I'm supposed to use on the windoze end though
[20:47] <brobostigon> Lozzy_uk: in empathy, it is the people nearby, account type.
[20:48] <brobostigon> Lozzy_uk: in pidgin it is bonjour.
[20:50] <Lozzy_uk> so I use pidgin on the windows side then I guess?
[20:51] <brobostigon> that is what i would do,
[20:52] <Lozzy_uk> ok brobostigon many thanks for the advice (and Azelphur)
[20:52] <brobostigon> :)
[20:52] <Azelphur> :)
[21:05] <jacobw> evening
[21:06] <zleap> evening
[21:17] <diplo> Evening all
[21:21] <jacobw> hey diplo
[21:22] <diplo> 2 hours later, Cyagenmod installed \o/
[21:24] <jacobw> \o/
[21:24] <jacobw> ok, now i've cheered, i can tell you that miui is better :p
[21:25] <diplo> miui ?
[21:25] <diplo> And don't care so much now as i can just load from Clockwork
[21:25] <diplo> :)
[21:25] <jacobw> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=miui&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmiuiandroid.com%2F&ei=O-gyT6yIAYTK0QXlq_XBBw&usg=AFQjCNHxXPXc-QcnsBBrMArouKknOOfLYQ&cad=rja
[21:25] <jacobw> fucking google links
[21:25] <jacobw> http://miuiandroid.com/
[21:26] <diplo> ta, taking a look now
[21:27] <diplo> What do you say is the better part about it ?
[21:28] <diplo> My phone not on there rom list
[21:29] <bigcalm> !ohmy | jacobw
[21:29] <jacobw> much nicer look, better tools
[21:29] <jacobw> bigcalm: i was starting to think i'd gotten away with it ;)
[21:30] <diplo> :D
[21:30] <diplo> Will have a read up on it to see if i can squeeze it on :)
[21:31] <diplo> cheers, now it's rooted I'm happy to try anythinhg
[21:31] <jacobw> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iukILj3Rlqc
[21:31] <jacobw> there might not be a rom available for your phone
[21:33] <AlanBell> I think apt-add-repository is broken
[21:33] <jacobw> how so?
[21:34] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/834505/
[21:34] <AlanBell> dunno if it is just that ppa or the tool
[21:35] <AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/~onboard/+archive/snapshots
[21:35] <jacobw> python 2.7 must be precise
[21:36] <jacobw> i'd guess its the tool
[21:36] <AlanBell> sudo apt-add-repository ppa:gwibber-daily/ppa
[21:36] <AlanBell> that seems to work (or get further)
[21:37] <AlanBell> hmm, maybe I need a launchpad support engineer
[21:37] <jacobw> it seems unlikley that a broken ppa could be unknown and cause an unhandled crash
[21:38] <AlanBell> does sudo apt-add-repository ppa:onboard/snapshot work for you (you don't need to install it, just see if it crashes, press ctrl+c if it works)
[21:40] <DJones> AlanBell: Nope
[21:40] <AlanBell> ok, thanks
[21:40] <AlanBell> on precise?
[21:40] <DJones> No, 11.10 http://pastebin.com/CV16JAyU
[21:41] <AlanBell> ok, great, not a regression then
[21:41] <DJones> Different error line numbers to your pastebin though
[21:42] <AlanBell> yeah, same problem though, bad/missing json from lplib somewhere
[21:42] <AlanBell> luckily we now have czajkowski to help with such issues
[21:42] <DJones> yes
[21:45] <diplo> jacobw, looks nice
[21:46] <diplo> Going to take a look round and see what i can do
[21:52] <AlanBell> DJones: I am a failure
[21:52] <AlanBell> sudo apt-add-repository ppa:onboard/snapshots
[21:52] <AlanBell> the final s is kind of important
[21:52] <DJones> Heh
[21:58] <AlanBell> ooh nasty crash during an update
[21:58] <AlanBell> update of glibc no less :-/
[22:33] <czajkowski> AlanBell: eh ?
[22:34] <zleap> is there a specfic package i need for gamepads
[22:36] <AlanBell> czajkowski: I though launchpad was broken, but it was user error
[22:37] <czajkowski> ahh
[22:37] <czajkowski> you mean you broke it ;)
[22:37] <popey> yeah czajkowski, fix launchpad!
[22:37] <AlanBell> no, I just fail at copying and pasting
[22:38] <ali1234> Azelphur: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wbyyA9X4Qk
[22:38] <czajkowski> popey: thats no 2 on my list of requests
[22:38] <czajkowski> the #1 was get rid of bzr
[22:38] <czajkowski> :/
[22:38] <Azelphur> ali1234: looks pretty cool, seems similar to the N900 :)
[22:38] <ali1234> (spark tablet, plasma active, mer)
[22:38] <AlanBell> "add git support" would be better than "get rid of bzr" surely
[22:39] <AlanBell> I would like launchpad to add documentation
[22:40] <AlanBell> like github shows the README
[22:40] <AlanBell> on launchpad we have overview, code, bugs, blueprints, translations, answers, but no "documentation"
[22:41] <czajkowski> AlanBell: nods on both those things
[22:44] <ali1234> Azelphur: it's quite a bit bigger than an N900
[22:48] <directhex> moo
[22:50] <czajkowski> MOOOOOOO
[22:54] <zleap> capello has quit as england manager
[22:55] <Azelphur> ali1234: indeed
[22:58] <zleap> hmm  game pad no longer works on either computer
[23:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Blogging Tips - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/08/blogging-tips/
[23:44] <AlanBell> that is two REISUB lockups today, both with the mouse on the left edge of a screen trying to get the launcher out . . .
[23:44] <popey> i leave mine out...
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