ochosi(i think apart from bluebird those are the main two items i'll be involved in)00:00
knomemadnick still haven't pushed the code00:02
knomehuhu, stomach said TOILER00:02
knomehad a quite hot meal @ nepalese today00:02
knomeso anyway00:03
knomeyes, shortcut keys need discussion00:03
knomewill you be able to attend the meeting tomorrow(today) ?00:03
ochosihm, most likely not, i have a meeting @work/uni00:03
knomewhat about later?00:04
ochosiit's on each wednesday between 6 and 8pm00:04
ochosiwell after that usually drinks ;)00:04
ochosii mean what i have to say about it have told you already00:04
ochosii'm all for adding the app-shortcuts00:04
ochosiand i don't care whether we use the super-key or ctrl-alt (or both)00:04
knomewant to make sure the wikipage is as finished as possible?00:05
ochosifor apps it's not that important00:05
ochosialthough super tends to conflict less with within-app-shortcuts00:05
knomeand of drinks...00:05
ochosihm, we can give it a quick look00:05
knomewe'll most probably be at berlin in april 5-11 or so00:05
ochosii most likely won't be there then ;)00:06
knomeokay ;)00:06
knomeif you change your mind though...00:06
ochosiok, i'll let you know then00:06
ochosibut i'm rarely in berlin00:06
knomecool ;)00:06
ochosionce or twice a year00:06
knomein that case i'm REALLY rarely to berlin00:06
knomewill be my first time00:07
knomeif TXL doesn't count00:07
ochosii just spotted me and the other xfce-folks in a photo on planetubuntu00:07
knomewife's been there twice iirc00:07
ochosiknome: your wife has been on planetubuntu or @fosdem?00:10
knomei wish, in my naughtiest dreams00:11
knomewell, not really actually :D00:12
knomejust holidays and such00:12
ochosianyway, where is that wiki-page again....00:14
knomewell, the one thing that needs review mostly00:15
knomeis gmusicbrowser00:15
knomesuper+g(mb) or super+a(udio) ?00:15
knomeyeah, i know m would be better, but..00:15
ochosiwell those things will always conflict in some way00:15
ochosii mean it doesn't even matter if you decide to use first-letters or functionality00:16
knomeof course00:16
ochosii'd use g00:16
knomebut G really?00:16
ochosia isn't intuitive or connected at all00:16
ochosia could also show the mixer ;)00:16
knomebut so isn't g :)00:16
knomewhat if that was super+1 ?00:17
knomewe could bind a few more to 2-900:17
knomethat wouldn't be connected either, but at least it wouldn't be so "weird" either...00:17
knome+2 xchat00:18
knome+3 pidgin (is that installed by default?)00:18
ochosiyeah, but why not use 1 for browser, 2 for mail..?00:18
knomeand maybe we should bind gnumeric and abiword too00:18
knomedon't know00:18
knomethat works for me too00:18
knomewe're not going to fit them all in the numbers though00:19
knomebecause it kind of does not make sense we have a shortcut for gmb but not abiword00:19
ochosiwell users can decide for themselves too00:20
ochosiso a for abiword then? ;)00:20
knomei think super+W(eb) is a good idea00:21
knomeso is terminal, mail00:21
knomeand those linked to exo00:21
ochosiwell yes, we can also say we start with exo-stuff00:21
knomethe others could be just 1-900:21
knomewe should00:21
ochosik, i'm fine with that actually00:21
knomebecause that's ideal imo00:21
ochosiright, then that's settled00:21
ochosiand i can slowly think of going to bed00:21
knomethis also gives users a good idea00:22
knome"hey, i can use super+1-9 for my apps"00:22
knomewill you update the wiki or should i00:22
ochosihopefully you can convince the others @meeting and we mr_pouit can push the changes00:22
ochosiif you can, that'd be great00:22
knomei can00:22
ochosii'm already brushing my teeth00:22
ochosity :)00:22
knomecan i'm sure i can at the meeting too00:22
ochosiyup, that's just as good00:22
knomei mean, this isn't breaking the system00:23
knomeone more thing00:23
knomemaybe add the fill-shortcuts for window manager00:23
knomebut i'll see about that00:23
ochosithose are definitely useful00:26
knomehmm also00:26
knomewe could quickly look at the order of the super+1-9 shortcuts tomorrow00:26
ochosik, i'm off, night!00:29
knomegood night!00:29
knomemeh what?00:56
Unit193Well, you said window manager isn't going to really change?00:56
knomemostly it stays the same00:57
knomewe're only removing move+resize00:57
knomeimo move is kind of eh00:57
knomebecause you need the mouse anyway00:57
knomeand resize, mouse too00:57
Unit193I just use Alt+click and drag anywhere on window00:57
knomein addition to those, only "stick" changes00:57
knomeand we are introducing new three shortcuts00:58
knomebut two of those do not overlap with existing shortcuts00:58
knomeright, actually01:00
Unit193In the end I'll just change to how I like it, not trying to be hard or anything01:00
knomei think the grab+move key could be changes01:00
knomebut that's just me...01:00
knomewell feel free to disagree and discuss now or in the meeting01:00
knomebut i think this is a really delicate move01:00
knomedo you use those keys that changed/removed much?01:00
knomeif not, what's the problem :)01:01
Unit193Ctrl+alt+t I use01:01
knomeyeah, but those aren't changes01:01
knomei mean, you had to add them previously as well01:01
knomeand of course, upgrading doesn't break anything01:02
knomethis is just for new installs01:02
Unit193To upgrade you reinstall ;)01:02
knomei don't01:03
knomebut whatsoever01:03
knomeyou needed to change some keys with the old setup01:03
knomeand you need to do that with new01:03
knomeare we making life for you considerably harder?01:04
knomethat's the important question :)01:04
Unit193knome: Again, just was making a light comment, nothing more. Also just happy the winmgr ones are basically the same01:04
knomeyeah, good01:05
Unit193I think a few defaults are great01:05
knomei'm taking comments seriously01:05
knomebecause if users are using the stick shortcut much, changing it can be really bad01:05
Unit193I do not use it01:06
knomewhat about move/resize?01:06
knomei'm thinking if it affects accessibility01:06
knomewould those be essential for people who can't use a mouse?01:06
Unit193I use corners, title bar, and alt+drag01:07
Unit193alt+space is the method I have used, b ut Charlie is much better to ask01:07
knomeahh joy01:08
knomeheh right so people can access them01:08
knomepleia2, hai?08:36
ochosimicahg: re: thunderbird: cool! is there any way to test it in oneiric? oh, and: i have a firefox-related question09:23
micahgochosi: ppa:mozillateam/thunderbird-next09:23
ochosimicahg: is there any way to pass the "content-widget" of firefox white as base color and black as foreground color? it's kinda annoying to have dark bg with dark gtk-themes on pages that don't set the bg color09:24
micahgochosi: can the firefox question wait a day, I'm trying to finish up some testing09:24
ochosiof course .)09:24
ochosimicahg: i'll ask you again tomorrow09:24
micahgochosi: you'd be better off asking chrisccoulson actualy :)09:25
ochosik :)09:25
Unit193ochosi: I have Aurora and Earlybird09:25
ochosiUnit193: what'10:54
ochosiUnit193: what's that?10:54
Unit193Firefox and Tbird 1210:55
Unit193They're cooler ;)10:55
ochosidunno mozilla-codenames ;)10:55
ochosiknome: yay! unico-stuff is merged as of today!10:55
ochosiknome: do i have to do anything else than set the bug-status to "fix released" to get the workitem marked as done?10:58
ochosimicahg, knome: yay for tb-devs! http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-02082012-120329pm.php11:03
mr_pouitmeh, gtk3 theming looks ugly in precise right now (icons with a grey background, it feels like displaying png with an alpha channel using internet explorer 5, and some colors not respected)12:55
mr_pouit13:59  seb128: diwic, it's a gtk change how theming work, Cimi has to catch up and update our themes game13:01
ochosimr_pouit: yes, i got a similar reply from Cimi about that directly14:30
mr_pouitGtk-WARNING **: Theme parsing error: gtk-widgets.css:60:16: Not using units is deprecated. Assuming 'px'.14:36
mr_pouitmmh, I'll need to retest with the current git master14:36
mr_pouit(but the fixed unico engine still shows ugly things with greybird)14:37
ochosiwell i haven't looked at what changed in unico14:37
ochosibest/easiest thing would be to test it with ambiance and to see what they changed there14:37
ochosiso if you could take a quick look at it with that theme, that'd be great help14:38
mr_pouit"Updated to work with gtk 3.3.14, requires new unico"14:39
mr_pouitbut it's probably hidden among all the changes :/14:40
ochosiwell ok, it's a trivial (but annoying) change14:40
ochosiall unico-stuff needs units now14:40
ochosibut i'm wondering why they're doing that14:40
ochosii mean they know it'll break a lot of themse14:40
ochosiand it must be unrelated to whatever gtk-changes have been going on14:40
ochosi"px" can easily be appended by the engine14:40
mr_pouit-.menubar .menuitem *:hover {14:43
mr_pouit+.menubar.menuitem:hover {14:43
mr_pouitthere's also that maybe?14:43
mr_pouit(they changed a few things like that)14:45
ochosiyeah, i might have to take a closer look later14:46
ochosii really hope this doesn't break greybird on earlier versions of unico14:46
ochosiotherwise the branching-fun starts...14:46
pleia2knome: you say hai at midnight:30, I was asleeping :)17:19
knomepleia2, heh, right :)17:27
knomei can't remember...17:27
astraljavaWonder what your wife says to that, you whispering to the ears of american women at nights.17:33
knomewell, she always says i should have more hobbies17:33
knomedoesn't that count?17:33
astraljavaI'm gonna bring this into her attention next week, and we'll see about that.17:33
knomeastraljava, i just remembered we can't accommodate you after all17:34
astraljavaHeheheh. :)17:34
knome(just kidding)17:34
knomeplanning a bachelor party for a friend17:34
astraljavaHmm... what's this? Tom's Hardware says Canonical stops supporting Kubuntu?17:35
knomethat's what riddell posted to the kubuntu mailing list too17:35
knomewell, stops *financially* supporting kubuntu :)17:35
astraljavaToo bad.17:36
knomei don't know.17:37
pleia2I'm glad all the flavors are on a level playing field now, their support of kubuntu was always kind of strange17:37
knomekind of sucks, because that means xubuntu can't get financial support ever, but on the other hand, other flavors have coped too17:37
pleia2they dropped support for edubuntu a while back (remember edubuntu CDs? I do!)17:37
knomedefinitely agreed on that, pleia2 17:37
astraljavaYeah well, they (KDE project) have produced some pretty outstanding bits and pieces, reaching further than just the DE.17:38
pleia2apachelogger had a good post about it17:38
knomepleia2, link? :)17:39
pleia2a lot of the news articles have been a real kick in the face to developers other than riddell17:39
astraljavaknome: KVG17:39
knomeastraljava, hahah17:39
knomeastraljava, if it's true what my friend told to me, he launched that term when being a speaker in radio NRJ ;)17:40
astraljavaHeheh, interesting.17:40
knomeokay, meeting soon17:52
knomeso, who's here for the meeting??18:03
knome#startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting18:03
meetingologyMeeting started Wed Feb  8 18:03:46 2012 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.18:03
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired18:03
knomeanybody else, or are we going to have a quiet one?18:04
knomelet's wait for a few mins18:04
knomeGridCube, madnick, micahg, scott-work, Unit193 ?18:05
knomeoh well, let's start18:05
knome#topic Business carried on18:06
knome#subtopic Default shortcut keys18:06
knome#info there is a final specification of the default shortcut keys at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Precise/DefaultShortcutKeys18:07
knomeanybody have feedback about that?18:07
knome#info the specification mostly adds application shortbuts, but very slightly changes wm shortcuts too18:07
knomesince there's been quite a lot of time to give feedback about the older or even the newest version, i'm supposing everybody have had their word...18:08
knomelet's vote: yay (+1) or nay (-1) for the changes as is18:08
knome#vote Default shortcut keys: changes OK?18:09
meetingologyPlease vote on: Default shortcut keys: changes OK?18:09
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)18:09
meetingology+1 received from knome18:09
meetingology+1 received from astraljava18:09
meetingology+1 received from pleia218:09
knomeanybody else?18:09
meetingologyVoting ended on: Default shortcut keys: changes OK?18:10
meetingologyVotes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:018:10
meetingologyMotion carried18:10
knome#nick mr_pouit 18:10
knome#action mr_pouit to upload new default shortcuts to xubuntu-default-settings18:10
meetingologyACTION: mr_pouit to upload new default shortcuts to xubuntu-default-settings18:10
knome#topic Team updates18:10
knome#subtopic Packaging and Development18:11
knome(again, please use #info on all updates)18:11
knome#nick micahg 18:12
knome#info mr_pouit and micahg worked on getting the Shimmer Project themes moved to shimmer-themes18:12
knome#info mr_pouit fixed alacarte - it's no longer pulling in half of GNOME, and it will work with OnlyShowIn=XFCE18:12
knome#info astraljava has been working on ubiquity "app sets"18:13
knomei think that was it, anything else comes to mind?18:14
knome#nick madnick18:14
knome#action madnick to provide sources for the new lightdm and plymout theme ASAP18:15
meetingologyACTION: madnick to provide sources for the new lightdm and plymout theme ASAP18:15
knome#subtopic Bug Triage, Testing and Documentation18:16
pleia2it would be great to get some blog posts out there about these topics18:16
pleia2I'm drafting one about testing that I'll pass along to charlie to proof18:16
knomeokay, great18:17
knome#action pleia2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs18:17
meetingologyACTION: pleia2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs18:17
knomewe don't seem to have anybody in to summarize actions, so let's move forward18:17
knome#subtopic Marketing, Artwork and Website18:18
knome#info New website is released!18:18
knome#ino Wallpaper nearly finished!18:18
knome#info Wallpaper nearly finished!18:18
pleia2now that it's released I have some marketing ideas I want to work on18:18
knome#info pleia2 has been keeping the Twitter feed up-to-date!18:18
pleia2I keep getting asked about whether there are xubuntu t-shirts (and other stuff), there isn't18:19
pleia2#info do we want to start a zazzle.com store?18:19
knomedo you think just a plain logo-model would be okay?18:19
pleia2(or cafe press)18:19
pleia2just a big ole mouse on the front, maybe xubuntu.org on the back18:19
knome#action pleia2 and knome to work on t-shirt designs and come up with a proposal on the design and the webstore to plug in18:20
meetingologyACTION: pleia2 and knome to work on t-shirt designs and come up with a proposal on the design and the webstore to plug in18:20
knomethat fine?18:20
knomeother ideas? :)18:20
pleia2#info the other idea is fliers for conferences18:20
pleia2color, black and white, full sheet and 4/page handouts18:20
knome#info possible webstores for t-shirts: cafepress, zazzle18:20
pleia2at SCALE I found myself telling a lot of people about xubuntu when they wanted "old gnome" but not having info to give out18:21
knomei can help designing those, but would we be offering the ready-to-print PDF's or what?18:21
pleia2yeah, SVGs and PDFs18:21
knomedo we expect people to send them to press, or just print at home/office printer?18:21
pleia2which is why we want color and B&W18:22
pleia2I'll probably just print out 4/page ones on blue paper with my B&W printer18:22
knome#action pleia2 to gather content for flyers18:22
meetingologyACTION: pleia2 to gather content for flyers18:22
knome#action knome to design flyers18:22
meetingologyACTION: knome to design flyers18:22
pleia2that's all I've got for this topic :)18:23
knome#action pleia2 to set up a wikipage with all ideas18:23
meetingologyACTION: pleia2 to set up a wikipage with all ideas18:23
knome#subtopic General updates18:24
knomei'm hungry18:24
knomeanybody else need to get something off their chest?18:24
astraljavaI'm going to sleep.18:24
knomegood night18:24
pleia2knome: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing18:24
knomeahh! :)18:24
pleia2just need to move "further ideas" up to "current projects" :)18:24
knomenice ;)18:24
knome#topic Other Business18:25
knome#subtopic New wallpaper18:25
knome#info New wallpaper draft has been available at http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/wall-9-preview.png18:25
knomeany feedback?18:25
pleia2(I still don't like the bird)18:25
knomeheh, we're probably going to add a fisher and a boa too18:26
knometo the left side18:26
knomeso those who don't like birds can use the left-side18:26
astraljavaboa would rock18:26
knomeastraljava, i'm sure, especially if it's windy18:26
pleia2sounds good18:26
knome#vote New wallpaper: Looks OK, fine with us to upload to Xubuntu with minor changes?18:27
meetingologyPlease vote on: New wallpaper: Looks OK, fine with us to upload to Xubuntu with minor changes?18:27
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)18:27
meetingology+1 received from knome18:27
meetingology+1 received from astraljava18:27
meetingology+1 received from pleia218:27
knomeanybody else?18:27
* knome is kind of bored with this meeting :P18:27
meetingologyVoting ended on: New wallpaper: Looks OK, fine with us to upload to Xubuntu with minor changes?18:28
meetingologyVotes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:018:28
meetingologyMotion carried18:28
astraljavaHeheh. :)18:28
knome#action knome to finalize wallpaper18:28
meetingologyACTION: knome to finalize wallpaper18:28
knome#action mr_pouit to upload wallpaper to repo18:28
meetingologyACTION: mr_pouit to upload wallpaper to repo18:28
knome#subtopic Open action items from previous meeting18:28
knome#action micahg and mr_pouit to confirm xfce package versions in precise18:28
meetingologyACTION: micahg and mr_pouit to confirm xfce package versions in precise18:28
knome#action ochosi to investigate some cherry-picking from xfce upstream to ubuntu18:29
meetingologyACTION: ochosi to investigate some cherry-picking from xfce upstream to ubuntu18:29
knome#subtopic Any other business18:29
astraljavaI've been stalling with the ubiquity part.18:29
astraljavaBut I intend to finish it by FF.18:30
knomedo you expect to get it done for FF?18:30
knomeok, good18:30
astraljavaWhich probably means during the upcoming weekend.18:30
knomeif you can't, tell us in advance and we'll seek for exception18:30
knome#info we're under the mainline at burndown: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-xubuntu.html18:31
meetingologyMeeting ended Wed Feb  8 18:31:27 2012 UTC.  18:31
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-02-08-18.03.moin.txt18:31
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-02-08-18.03.html18:31
knomethanks pleia2 and astraljava 18:31
astraljavaThank you!18:31
knomeand woot, new meetingology links18:31
knomeyay yay18:31
knomemuch better18:31
knomestill not perfect, but better18:32
pleia2thanks knome :)18:32
astraljavayep, much better.18:32
knomegreat to get things forward18:32
knomemeeting minutes up18:36
* pleia2 adds to UWN18:37
knomethanks :)18:37
pleia2aaand tweeted18:42
knomesent mail to ubuntu-release18:45
madnickknome: 1 day early? ;)19:25
knomemadnick, can you please provide the sources for lightdm and plymouth to mr_pouit ?19:27
madnickhm, lightdm probably, plymouth nope, plymouth atm is just a bug fix and a start for the game19:27
knomecan you upload what you have on the plymouth?19:28
madnicki suppose19:28
knomebetter to get those in first19:28
knomethen upload updates19:28
knomeif the game isn't ready, then it isn't19:28
knomebut we need the basic stuff by FF19:28
madnicki acctually19:28
madnickdedicated friday, saturday and sunday to work on the last bits19:29
knomegreat :)19:29
knomethat's very much appreciated19:29
madnickthese past 2 months have been extremly hard to get *any* work done19:29
knomeyeah, i've noticed you've been busy19:29
madnicki will create a branch on lp and upload the stuff i have atm19:30
knomei just talked to dpm about the translations too19:34
knomethat's another reason why we'd like to have it ASAP :)19:34
madnickyeah, acctually i am a bit confused of how to pull that off, since its not GTK, but one could probably emulate that19:34
olbihello guys :D19:35
olbiI have now Edge HD3 for testing with E-450 and Radeon HD 6300, testing Xubuntu 11.10, works fine, but drivers from AMD are shits :P19:36
baizonolbi: indeed :(19:44
baizongot the same hardware19:44
olbibut Ion is working great :D19:58
olbiI wonder, why in repo 11.10 there isn't nvidia 290.xx yet ;/19:59
micahgsorry,  meant to remind people I wouldn't be around20:07
Unit193Seems I may have missed it too20:44
ochosiknome: what did i miss?23:46
knomeochosi, the meeting?23:47
knomeochosi, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2012-02-0823:47
ochosik, read it23:49
ochosiso the kb-shortcuts are done, that's good23:49
knomeyeah, just need mr_pouit to push them23:50
ochosibtw, the ubiquity screenshots could be done in oneiric anytime23:50
knomenote how delicately i was able to remind him23:50
ochosiall we need is thunderbird23:50
ochosiand software center (i think)23:50
knomewell, tb is a must23:50
knomeif you can take the screenshot, i can update it right away23:51
ochosii don't have tb installed here (don't use it :) )23:51
knomehow do i apply the fix to oneiric?23:51
ochosibtw, "gather list of goodlooking wps" should be postponed imo23:51
ochosijust use the ppa micahg mentioned earlier23:52
knomedid he say if that is stable?23:52
ochosii dunno what the status of that is23:52
ochosito the worst you can downgrade23:53
knomemicahg, how stable is ppa:mozillateam/thunderbird-next?23:53
ochosii think we don't have enough space for the wallpapers anyway atm23:53
ochosiand it'd be best if they were updated upstream23:53
ochosisoo, one less thing to worry about .)23:53
ochosiso mostly it's the bluebird port for me now23:54
knomei'm quite amazed - @XubuntuLinux has 7 tweets, and we have 173 followers23:54
ochosii hope i can do that soon, actually i'm not too optimistic23:54
ochosiah nice23:54
* ochosi never used twitter23:54
knomei used it for two tweets and 5 minutes23:55
knomethen removed my account23:55
knomewhat about theming maybe-ubiquity?23:55
ochosidon't even know what that is :)23:55
knomei hear its color is not optimal23:55
knomethe installer23:55
knomewhere you select if you want to install or try23:56
ochosiyou mean the graphical one or the startup screen?23:56
knometbh, i'm not really sure :|23:56
knomebut i think both23:56
knomeit was added for precise23:56
knomeso if you're thinking oneiric, you're outdated23:56
ochosii guess that's all i'm thinking :)23:58
ochosii don't have much free space since i switched from hdd to ssd23:58
knomei see23:58
* knome gets shivers from ólafur arnalds' "this place is a shelter"23:59

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