[00:00] (i think apart from bluebird those are the main two items i'll be involved in) [00:02] madnick still haven't pushed the code [00:02] huhu, stomach said TOILER [00:02] *T [00:02] had a quite hot meal @ nepalese today [00:03] so anyway [00:03] yes, shortcut keys need discussion [00:03] will you be able to attend the meeting tomorrow(today) ? [00:03] 18UTC [00:03] hm, most likely not, i have a meeting @work/uni [00:03] bah [00:04] what about later? [00:04] it's on each wednesday between 6 and 8pm [00:04] aha.. [00:04] well after that usually drinks ;) [00:04] lol [00:04] i mean what i have to say about it have told you already [00:04] yup [00:04] i'm all for adding the app-shortcuts [00:04] and i don't care whether we use the super-key or ctrl-alt (or both) [00:05] want to make sure the wikipage is as finished as possible? [00:05] for apps it's not that important [00:05] although super tends to conflict less with within-app-shortcuts [00:05] and of drinks... [00:05] hm, we can give it a quick look [00:05] we'll most probably be at berlin in april 5-11 or so [00:05] aha [00:06] i most likely won't be there then ;) [00:06] hehe [00:06] okay ;) [00:06] if you change your mind though... [00:06] hehe [00:06] ok, i'll let you know then [00:06] but i'm rarely in berlin [00:06] cool ;) [00:06] once or twice a year [00:06] hah [00:06] in that case i'm REALLY rarely to berlin [00:07] will be my first time [00:07] if TXL doesn't count [00:07] haha [00:07] i just spotted me and the other xfce-folks in a photo on planetubuntu [00:07] wife's been there twice iirc [00:07] really? [00:07] yup [00:10] knome: your wife has been on planetubuntu or @fosdem? [00:11] lol [00:11] i wish, in my naughtiest dreams [00:12] well, not really actually :D [00:12] just holidays and such [00:14] anyway, where is that wiki-page again.... [00:14] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Precise/DefaultShortcutKeys [00:15] well, the one thing that needs review mostly [00:15] is gmusicbrowser [00:15] super+g(mb) or super+a(udio) ? [00:15] yeah, i know m would be better, but.. [00:15] well those things will always conflict in some way [00:16] i mean it doesn't even matter if you decide to use first-letters or functionality [00:16] of course [00:16] i'd use g [00:16] but G really? [00:16] a isn't intuitive or connected at all [00:16] a could also show the mixer ;) [00:16] but so isn't g :) [00:16] hmm. [00:17] what if that was super+1 ? [00:17] we could bind a few more to 2-9 [00:17] that wouldn't be connected either, but at least it wouldn't be so "weird" either... [00:18] +2 xchat [00:18] +3 pidgin (is that installed by default?) [00:18] yeah, but why not use 1 for browser, 2 for mail..? [00:18] and maybe we should bind gnumeric and abiword too [00:18] don't know [00:18] that works for me too [00:19] we're not going to fit them all in the numbers though [00:19] because it kind of does not make sense we have a shortcut for gmb but not abiword [00:20] maybe [00:20] well users can decide for themselves too [00:20] so a for abiword then? ;) [00:20] hahah [00:20] well [00:21] i think super+W(eb) is a good idea [00:21] so is terminal, mail [00:21] yes [00:21] and those linked to exo [00:21] well yes, we can also say we start with exo-stuff [00:21] the others could be just 1-9 [00:21] we should [00:21] k, i'm fine with that actually [00:21] because that's ideal imo [00:21] right, then that's settled [00:21] good [00:21] and i can slowly think of going to bed [00:22] this also gives users a good idea [00:22] yes [00:22] "hey, i can use super+1-9 for my apps" [00:22] will you update the wiki or should i [00:22] hopefully you can convince the others @meeting and we mr_pouit can push the changes [00:22] if you can, that'd be great [00:22] i can [00:22] i'm already brushing my teeth [00:22] ty :) [00:22] can i'm sure i can at the meeting too [00:22] yup, that's just as good [00:23] i mean, this isn't breaking the system [00:23] oh [00:23] one more thing [00:23] maybe add the fill-shortcuts for window manager [00:23] but i'll see about that [00:26] yup [00:26] those are definitely useful [00:26] hmm also [00:26] we could quickly look at the order of the super+1-9 shortcuts tomorrow [00:27] huhu [00:28] super+F(iles) [00:28] yup [00:29] k, i'm off, night! [00:29] Adios [00:29] good night! [00:54] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Precise/DefaultShortcutKeys [00:54] done [00:55] Meh [00:56] meh what? [00:56] Well, you said window manager isn't going to really change? [00:57] mostly it stays the same [00:57] YES! [00:57] we're only removing move+resize [00:57] imo move is kind of eh [00:57] because you need the mouse anyway [00:57] and resize, mouse too [00:57] I just use Alt+click and drag anywhere on window [00:57] in addition to those, only "stick" changes [00:58] and we are introducing new three shortcuts [00:58] but two of those do not overlap with existing shortcuts [01:00] right, actually [01:00] In the end I'll just change to how I like it, not trying to be hard or anything [01:00] i think the grab+move key could be changes [01:00] but that's just me... [01:00] well feel free to disagree and discuss now or in the meeting [01:00] but i think this is a really delicate move [01:00] do you use those keys that changed/removed much? [01:01] if not, what's the problem :) [01:01] Ctrl+alt+t I use [01:01] Win+tab [01:01] yeah, but those aren't changes [01:01] *changed [01:01] i mean, you had to add them previously as well [01:02] and of course, upgrading doesn't break anything [01:02] this is just for new installs [01:02] To upgrade you reinstall ;) [01:03] i don't [01:03] but whatsoever [01:03] you needed to change some keys with the old setup [01:03] and you need to do that with new [01:04] are we making life for you considerably harder? [01:04] that's the important question :) [01:04] knome: Again, just was making a light comment, nothing more. Also just happy the winmgr ones are basically the same [01:05] yeah, good [01:05] I think a few defaults are great [01:05] i'm taking comments seriously [01:05] because if users are using the stick shortcut much, changing it can be really bad [01:06] I do not use it [01:06] :) [01:06] good [01:06] what about move/resize? [01:06] i'm thinking if it affects accessibility [01:06] would those be essential for people who can't use a mouse? [01:07] I use corners, title bar, and alt+drag [01:07] alt+space is the method I have used, b ut Charlie is much better to ask [01:08] ahh joy [01:08] heh right so people can access them [08:36] pleia2, hai? [09:23] micahg: re: thunderbird: cool! is there any way to test it in oneiric? oh, and: i have a firefox-related question [09:23] ochosi: ppa:mozillateam/thunderbird-next [09:24] micahg: is there any way to pass the "content-widget" of firefox white as base color and black as foreground color? it's kinda annoying to have dark bg with dark gtk-themes on pages that don't set the bg color [09:24] ochosi: can the firefox question wait a day, I'm trying to finish up some testing [09:24] oh [09:24] sry [09:24] of course .) [09:24] micahg: i'll ask you again tomorrow [09:25] bbl [09:25] ochosi: you'd be better off asking chrisccoulson actualy :) [09:25] k :) [09:25] ochosi: I have Aurora and Earlybird [10:54] Unit193: what' [10:54] Unit193: what's that? [10:55] Firefox and Tbird 12 [10:55] ah [10:55] ok [10:55] They're cooler ;) [10:55] dunno mozilla-codenames ;) [10:55] knome: yay! unico-stuff is merged as of today! [10:58] knome: do i have to do anything else than set the bug-status to "fix released" to get the workitem marked as done? [11:03] micahg, knome: yay for tb-devs! http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-02082012-120329pm.php [12:55] meh, gtk3 theming looks ugly in precise right now (icons with a grey background, it feels like displaying png with an alpha channel using internet explorer 5, and some colors not respected) [13:01] 13:59 seb128: diwic, it's a gtk change how theming work, Cimi has to catch up and update our themes game [14:30] mr_pouit: yes, i got a similar reply from Cimi about that directly [14:36] Gtk-WARNING **: Theme parsing error: gtk-widgets.css:60:16: Not using units is deprecated. Assuming 'px'. [14:36] mmh, I'll need to retest with the current git master [14:37] (but the fixed unico engine still shows ugly things with greybird) [14:37] well i haven't looked at what changed in unico [14:37] best/easiest thing would be to test it with ambiance and to see what they changed there [14:38] so if you could take a quick look at it with that theme, that'd be great help [14:39] http://launchpadlibrarian.net/92313122/light-themes_0.1.8.27.2_0.1.8.28.diff.gz [14:39] "Updated to work with gtk 3.3.14, requires new unico" [14:39] gah... [14:40] but it's probably hidden among all the changes :/ [14:40] well ok, it's a trivial (but annoying) change [14:40] all unico-stuff needs units now [14:40] but i'm wondering why they're doing that [14:40] i mean they know it'll break a lot of themse [14:40] themes [14:40] and it must be unrelated to whatever gtk-changes have been going on [14:40] "px" can easily be appended by the engine [14:43] -.menubar.menuitem:hover, [14:43] -.menubar .menuitem *:hover { [14:43] +.menubar.menuitem:hover { [14:43] there's also that maybe? [14:45] (they changed a few things like that) [14:46] yeah, i might have to take a closer look later [14:46] i really hope this doesn't break greybird on earlier versions of unico [14:46] otherwise the branching-fun starts... [17:19] knome: you say hai at midnight:30, I was asleeping :) [17:27] pleia2, heh, right :) [17:27] i can't remember... [17:33] Wonder what your wife says to that, you whispering to the ears of american women at nights. [17:33] well, she always says i should have more hobbies [17:33] doesn't that count? [17:33] lol [17:33] I'm gonna bring this into her attention next week, and we'll see about that. [17:34] astraljava, i just remembered we can't accommodate you after all [17:34] ;) [17:34] Heheheh. :) [17:34] (just kidding) [17:34] planning a bachelor party for a friend [17:35] Hmm... what's this? Tom's Hardware says Canonical stops supporting Kubuntu? [17:35] yes [17:35] that's what riddell posted to the kubuntu mailing list too [17:35] well, stops *financially* supporting kubuntu :) [17:35] Yeah. [17:36] Too bad. [17:37] i don't know. [17:37] I'm glad all the flavors are on a level playing field now, their support of kubuntu was always kind of strange [17:37] kind of sucks, because that means xubuntu can't get financial support ever, but on the other hand, other flavors have coped too [17:37] they dropped support for edubuntu a while back (remember edubuntu CDs? I do!) [17:37] definitely agreed on that, pleia2 [17:38] Yeah well, they (KDE project) have produced some pretty outstanding bits and pieces, reaching further than just the DE. [17:38] apachelogger had a good post about it [17:39] pleia2, link? :) [17:39] a lot of the news articles have been a real kick in the face to developers other than riddell [17:39] knome: KVG [17:39] http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/how-kubuntu-did-not-change/ [17:39] astraljava, hahah [17:40] astraljava, if it's true what my friend told to me, he launched that term when being a speaker in radio NRJ ;) [17:40] Heheh, interesting. [17:52] okay, meeting soon [18:03] so, who's here for the meeting?? [18:03] o/ [18:03] #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting [18:03] Meeting started Wed Feb 8 18:03:46 2012 UTC. The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [18:03] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [18:04] anybody else, or are we going to have a quiet one? [18:04] let's wait for a few mins [18:04] o/ [18:05] GridCube, madnick, micahg, scott-work, Unit193 ? [18:05] oh well, let's start [18:06] #topic Business carried on [18:06] #subtopic Default shortcut keys [18:07] #info there is a final specification of the default shortcut keys at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Precise/DefaultShortcutKeys [18:07] anybody have feedback about that? [18:07] #info the specification mostly adds application shortbuts, but very slightly changes wm shortcuts too [18:08] since there's been quite a lot of time to give feedback about the older or even the newest version, i'm supposing everybody have had their word... [18:08] let's vote: yay (+1) or nay (-1) for the changes as is [18:09] #vote Default shortcut keys: changes OK? [18:09] Please vote on: Default shortcut keys: changes OK? [18:09] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) [18:09] +1 [18:09] +1 received from knome [18:09] +1 [18:09] +1 received from astraljava [18:09] +1 [18:09] +1 received from pleia2 [18:09] anybody else? [18:10] #endvote [18:10] Voting ended on: Default shortcut keys: changes OK? [18:10] Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 [18:10] Motion carried [18:10] #nick mr_pouit [18:10] #action mr_pouit to upload new default shortcuts to xubuntu-default-settings [18:10] ACTION: mr_pouit to upload new default shortcuts to xubuntu-default-settings [18:10] #topic Team updates [18:11] #subtopic Packaging and Development [18:11] (again, please use #info on all updates) [18:12] #nick micahg [18:12] #info mr_pouit and micahg worked on getting the Shimmer Project themes moved to shimmer-themes [18:12] #info mr_pouit fixed alacarte - it's no longer pulling in half of GNOME, and it will work with OnlyShowIn=XFCE [18:13] #info astraljava has been working on ubiquity "app sets" [18:14] i think that was it, anything else comes to mind? [18:14] #nick madnick [18:15] #action madnick to provide sources for the new lightdm and plymout theme ASAP [18:15] ACTION: madnick to provide sources for the new lightdm and plymout theme ASAP [18:16] #subtopic Bug Triage, Testing and Documentation [18:16] anybody? [18:16] it would be great to get some blog posts out there about these topics [18:16] I'm drafting one about testing that I'll pass along to charlie to proof [18:17] okay, great [18:17] #action pleia2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs [18:17] ACTION: pleia2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs [18:17] we don't seem to have anybody in to summarize actions, so let's move forward [18:18] #subtopic Marketing, Artwork and Website [18:18] #info New website is released! [18:18] yay! [18:18] #ino Wallpaper nearly finished! [18:18] #info Wallpaper nearly finished! [18:18] now that it's released I have some marketing ideas I want to work on [18:18] #info pleia2 has been keeping the Twitter feed up-to-date! [18:18] sure [18:19] I keep getting asked about whether there are xubuntu t-shirts (and other stuff), there isn't [18:19] #info do we want to start a zazzle.com store? [18:19] do you think just a plain logo-model would be okay? [18:19] (or cafe press) [18:19] yes [18:19] just a big ole mouse on the front, maybe xubuntu.org on the back [18:20] #action pleia2 and knome to work on t-shirt designs and come up with a proposal on the design and the webstore to plug in [18:20] ACTION: pleia2 and knome to work on t-shirt designs and come up with a proposal on the design and the webstore to plug in [18:20] that fine? [18:20] yep [18:20] other ideas? :) [18:20] #info the other idea is fliers for conferences [18:20] color, black and white, full sheet and 4/page handouts [18:20] #info possible webstores for t-shirts: cafepress, zazzle [18:21] at SCALE I found myself telling a lot of people about xubuntu when they wanted "old gnome" but not having info to give out [18:21] i can help designing those, but would we be offering the ready-to-print PDF's or what? [18:21] yeah, SVGs and PDFs [18:21] right [18:21] . [18:21] do we expect people to send them to press, or just print at home/office printer? [18:22] both [18:22] which is why we want color and B&W [18:22] right... [18:22] I'll probably just print out 4/page ones on blue paper with my B&W printer [18:22] mm-hmm [18:22] #action pleia2 to gather content for flyers [18:22] ACTION: pleia2 to gather content for flyers [18:22] #action knome to design flyers [18:22] ACTION: knome to design flyers [18:23] that's all I've got for this topic :) [18:23] righto [18:23] #action pleia2 to set up a wikipage with all ideas [18:23] ACTION: pleia2 to set up a wikipage with all ideas [18:23] ;) [18:24] #subtopic General updates [18:24] i'm hungry [18:24] anybody else need to get something off their chest? [18:24] I'm going to sleep. [18:24] good night [18:24] knome: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing [18:24] ahh! :) [18:24] just need to move "further ideas" up to "current projects" :) [18:24] nice ;) [18:24] yep [18:25] great [18:25] #topic Other Business [18:25] #subtopic New wallpaper [18:25] #info New wallpaper draft has been available at http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/wall-9-preview.png [18:25] any feedback? [18:25] (I still don't like the bird) [18:26] heh, we're probably going to add a fisher and a boa too [18:26] +t [18:26] to the left side [18:26] so those who don't like birds can use the left-side [18:26] boa would rock [18:26] astraljava, i'm sure, especially if it's windy [18:26] sounds good [18:27] #vote New wallpaper: Looks OK, fine with us to upload to Xubuntu with minor changes? [18:27] Please vote on: New wallpaper: Looks OK, fine with us to upload to Xubuntu with minor changes? [18:27] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) [18:27] +1 [18:27] +1 received from knome [18:27] +1 [18:27] +1 received from astraljava [18:27] +1 [18:27] +1 received from pleia2 [18:27] anybody else? [18:27] * knome is kind of bored with this meeting :P [18:28] #endvote [18:28] Voting ended on: New wallpaper: Looks OK, fine with us to upload to Xubuntu with minor changes? [18:28] Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 [18:28] Motion carried [18:28] Heheh. :) [18:28] #action knome to finalize wallpaper [18:28] ACTION: knome to finalize wallpaper [18:28] #action mr_pouit to upload wallpaper to repo [18:28] ACTION: mr_pouit to upload wallpaper to repo [18:28] #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting [18:28] #action micahg and mr_pouit to confirm xfce package versions in precise [18:28] ACTION: micahg and mr_pouit to confirm xfce package versions in precise [18:29] #action ochosi to investigate some cherry-picking from xfce upstream to ubuntu [18:29] ACTION: ochosi to investigate some cherry-picking from xfce upstream to ubuntu [18:29] #subtopic Any other business [18:29] anything? [18:29]