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meetingologyMeeting started Thu Feb  9 15:00:57 2012 UTC.  The chair is NCommander. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.15:00
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired15:00
* davidm waves 15:01
ogra_wow, thats timing :)15:01
NCommander[topic] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2012/2012020915:01
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2012/20120209
NCommander[topic] Action Items from last meeting15:01
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Action Items from last meeting
NCommander[topic] janimo to look into LibO15:01
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: janimo to look into LibO
ogra_lots ;:)15:02
* NCommander looks for mercy on janimo's soul15:02
ogra_NCommander, he volunteered !15:02
janimoindeed I did15:02
NCommanderdd if=/dev/mercy of=/dev/janimo/soul15:02
janimoI do not (yet) regret it15:02
ogra_must have to do with his transylvanian inheritance :)15:02
NCommanderjanimo: yet being the operative word here15:02
janimotrue. I am looking at this now on the panda. If you'll see me curse these days, it's because I've been where NCommander has been before15:03
* NCommander needs a t-shirt15:03
* ogra_ doesnt want to go there ... evar !15:04
NCommander"I braved the depths of hell^W Libreoffice and all I got was this lousy t-shirt"15:04
ogra_though, mono is broken too15:04
* ogra_ hides15:04
NCommander[action] ogra_ to debug mono15:04
meetingologyACTION: ogra_ to debug mono15:04
* ogra_ looks for that rock and brick he collected before 15:05
NCommanderjanimo: anything else to report or can I move on?15:05
janimono really?mono broken on arm? impossible, I hear a company bases it's business on it not being broken on arm. You are all lying15:05
janimoNCommander, nope I hope I'll make progress till next meeting15:05
janimobut I ave started on it15:05
* NCommander thinks we've lost janimo to the madness already15:05
ogra_thats the winter15:06
NCommander[topic] dannf to tidy up a kernel package for armada15:06
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: dannf to tidy up a kernel package for armada
ogra_being locked in at -20°C does weird things to you15:06
NCommanderogra_: I lived in a mountian town like that. I'm still perfectly sane15:06
dannfNCommander: done afaik15:06
* ogra_ cleans coffee from his kbd15:07
NCommanderdannf: indeed, we're working on havinga kernel today (to be reported on later)15:07
* GrueMaster had coffee shoot up his nose, laughing so hard.15:07
NCommanderogra_: GrueMaster oh you guys suck15:07
NCommander[topic] infinity to pull said kernel package into d-i15:08
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: infinity to pull said kernel package into d-i
ogra_is infinity even here ?15:08
janimoogra_, I heard he planned on snorting coke a few hours ago15:08
NCommanderNo, but I thinkthis is a c/ogivenwestilldon't have an uploadedkernel15:08
* NCommander smacks his spacebar15:08
theadminHey wtf! I thought meeting starts at 20:00 UTC >.<15:09
theadminNo fair I sezzit15:09
ogra_the ARM meeting never ever started at 20UTC15:09
NCommanderWe'll be having the usual IRC meeting on #ubuntu-meeting, on15:10
NCommanderThursday 2011-02-09 at 15:00 UTC.15:10
* NCommander would be very happy if the meeting was at 20:00 UTC but :-P15:10
NCommander[topic] janimo or GrueMaster to test the mx5 kernel from jcrigby15:10
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: janimo or GrueMaster to test the mx5 kernel from jcrigby
* ogra_ wouldnt 15:10
GrueMasterDone.  Latest images have the new mx5 kernel15:11
theadminEither I'm confusing something or... Well I'm here for the first time, buuut: http://i.imm.io/gbSI.png15:11
NCommander[topic] Standing Items15:11
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Standing Items
GrueMasterStill fails on START-R rev board.  USB issues.15:11
NCommandertheadmin: wrong meeting. This is the ARM development team meeting, not IRC council15:12
theadminNCommander: Ah, pardon me then. ARM is cool, I'll listen in if you don't mind?15:12
janimoI tested the kernel it was ok, people uploaded it then15:12
NCommander[topic] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-arm.html15:12
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-arm.html
* janimo answered late on previous topic15:12
NCommanderThe items are increasing15:13
NCommanderI think we fail15:13
ogra_huh ?15:13
* GrueMaster is too sleepy to comment on futility.15:13
ogra_we look better than ever15:13
ogra_slightly below trend (if it would be in the right angle)15:14
NCommanderogra_: we're supposed to close items, not add half-a-million new closed items15:14
ogra_nothing changed over the last week15:14
* NCommander screams15:14
* ogra_ wonmders what you are referring to=15:14
NCommanderogra_: madness15:14
NCommander[topic] ARM Server Status (NCommander)15:14
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Server Status (NCommander)
ogra_there were no items added15:14
NCommanderSo, I've got news!15:15
theadminCan anyone change topic or what...15:15
theadmin[topic] tests15:15
theadminGuess not :D15:15
NCommanderI saved a bunch of money changing my insurance!15:15
theadminSorry, getting used to things15:15
ogra_theadmin, please dont interfere with the meeting15:15
NCommanderBut I also have ARM server news15:15
theadminogra_: Understood.15:15
NCommanderarmadaxp finally has a usable kernel git tree15:15
ogra_theadmin, NCommander is the meeting chairt, only the chair can change topics and we try to keep the meeting short15:16
janimoNCommander, great15:16
NCommanderUsing my gitified marvell patches, cooloney made them less crack, then we ported the Marvell sauce onto the oneiric tree15:16
NCommanderSo we went from 3.0.15->3.0.17 with Marvell15:16
NCommanderWe'll now track oneiric-updates, so we'll have security and updates for Armada until oneiric goes EOL15:17
ogra_wow, two micro versions !15:17
NCommanderogra_: it wasn't a small job, the tree we got was based off an ubuntu tree of unknown origin, which required a ton of patch sorting and fun15:17
rbasakAre there any plans to bring it up to precise?15:17
rbasakOr will it stay based on oneiric indefinitely?15:18
NCommanderrbasak: Marvell has been told that weneed a 3.2 kernel. We won't be doing the work to port it15:18
rbasakOK, thanks15:18
NCommanderrbasak: the armadaxp kernel will go into precise, its simply tracking oneiric since there tree is on the same major as oneiric's15:18
NCommanderUnlessa 3.2 kernel magically materializes before release, armada xp will be a universe supported flavor15:19
ogra_even though the kernel package will live somewhere else :)15:20
NCommanderinfinity and I are making the necessary demonic sacirifices to get d-i to work properly like that with netboot images15:20
NCommanderogra_: no, the kernel going in universe, we decided to fix d-i15:20
ogra_NCommander, the kernel will go to main15:20
ogra_we have approval and all15:20
NCommanderwe did?15:20
ogra_no d-i hacjking required15:20
NCommanderwe weren't goingto hijack d-i15:21
ogra_unless that changed since tuesday15:21
NCommanderd-i was simply going to pull in the universe udebs during the buildstep15:21
NCommanderbut we got approval for unsupported kernel in main, then yay15:21
ogra_we have release team approval, the kernel package will be in main, but unsupported and not in the manifest15:21
davidmNCommander, kernel in main15:21
NCommanderdavidm: awesome15:21
NCommanderThat makes life insanely less complicated15:22
ogra_(if you would read the team reports you would know btw :P )15:22
janimoNCommander, although d-i supporting universe kernels would have been useful in the future for other flavours15:22
janimoor for current mx5315:22
NCommanderAnyway, I'm shacking loosing the last of the packaging bugs (linux-armadaxp tried to build on amd64 for one)15:22
NCommanderBut we should see an upload into NEW byEOD today or tomorrow15:23
mahmohNCommander: how soon do we expect a kernel in main?15:23
ogra_janimo, thats super tricky since there (flasely) is a way to get rid of unwanted udebs by moving them to universe ...15:23
NCommandermahmoh: once it is approved from NEW, it goes into universe. Just needs a MIR to promote15:23
ogra_janimo, making d-i universe aware would break a lot through that15:23
janimoogra_, I am not arguing it is tricky to accomplish, but it is useful :)15:23
NCommanderjanimo: its probably easier to get release/kernel team blessings to dump an unsupported kernel in main15:24
ogra_janimo, yes, but we would have to fix that broken concept alongside15:24
janimoNCommander, but then it means it is supported. Are there no cases to want it unoficcially supported but workng with d-i. Is netinstall not such a use case?15:24
ogra_else we break x86 stuff15:25
ogra_which is not wanted before an LTS15:25
NCommanderjanimo: I proposed the solution of rm -r universe15:25
NCommanderjanimo: historically, we've had a few packages inmain that are unsupported15:25
janimoNCommander, I can get behind such a command15:25
NCommanderlinux-ports being the poster child for that trope15:25
* GrueMaster wonders if this is a topic for Kernel Status?15:26
NCommander[topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)15:26
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
NCommanderI think we pretty muchcovered the current kernel status15:26
NCommanderAnything else to bring up15:26
janimoac100 new test deb based on a 3.0.19 upstream advertised on the ac100 ml15:26
ogra_janimo has a new ac100 kernel coming :)15:26
ogra_and mx5 seems sorted15:27
* NCommander just got an armel/powerpc FTBFS on linux-armadaxp15:27
janimoonce marvin puts it in his stable, not exp branch15:27
NCommanderPackaging needs to be hit with a brick15:27
janimoNCommander, I would have been more worried if that build succeeded15:27
GrueMastermx5 kernel still needs work.  It still doesn't support USB on the newer rev board.15:27
NCommanderjanimo: its still running on i386 >.>;15:27
ogra_and even more if it worked :)15:27
ogra_GrueMaster, dont use USB then :P15:28
* ogra_ hides behind a chair15:28
* NCommander facepalms15:28
janimoGrueMaster, we should get a 3.2 mx5 kernel sometime, this is 3.1 .15:28
GrueMasterFor a desktop image not to use keyboard/mouse...difficult.15:28
ogra_be creative !15:28
NCommanderwrite a script15:28
ogra_use your soldering skills ... its a dev board after all15:28
GrueMasteroem-config doesn't use preseed other wise I would.15:29
NCommander^- ogra_15:29
NCommanderCare to fix that? :-)15:29
GrueMasterAnd I refuse to molest any of my stock dev boards.15:29
ogra_NCommander, yes, after FF15:29
ogra_its tasked15:29
GrueMasterSoldering iron == bad touch.15:30
ogra_try the other side :P15:30
NCommander[topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)15:30
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
NCommanderlibo is broken15:30
NCommandermono is broken15:30
NCommanderfour letter words are broken15:30
janimogiven back empathy anf gnome-games on armhf15:30
GrueMasterNo, say it isn't so....15:30
janimoarmel is still waiting for the fixed mesa to build15:31
NCommanderjanimo: package name? I'll rescore15:31
ogra_upstart seems to need some love15:31
janimoNCommander, waiting for build to finish, it has started 8 h ago15:31
janimofinished in 1h:30 on armhf15:31
ogra_and indeed qtwebkit15:31
janimowe need more pandas in the build center15:31
NCommanderjanimo: ow15:31
ogra_well, all images failed due to empathy/gnome-games15:32
ogra_(but thats for a later topic)15:32
janimodue to mesa egl not providing some deps15:32
janimoso not actually a change in those gnome apps15:32
NCommander[topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)15:32
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
ogra_awww, did they switcfh them to clutter ?15:33
ogra_well, all images failed due to empathy/gnome-games15:33
janimoogra_, I think gnome games has been using clutter for a long time15:33
* ogra_ likes his "up" key15:33
janimoempathy, no idea.15:33
ogra_we should test performance then15:33
janimoempathy uses every technology15:33
ogra_GrueMaster, can you do a quick check with your next desktop tests ?15:33
ogra_just to see if they are still usable15:33
GrueMasterCheck what?15:34
ogra_(i.e. play mahjongg for 5 min)15:34
GrueMasterWHAT?!?!?  Me play a game???15:34
ogra_not sure how to test empathy15:34
* GrueMaster shuders15:34
ogra_you could try a voip call or so15:34
janimoI think we should drop games altogether and let people use games in their browser15:34
ogra_tell that to -desktop though15:34
NCommanderGrueMaster: try playing Skyrim with qemu-user-i386 + wine on ARM15:34
GrueMasterYea, I'll check them15:35
ogra_NCommander, qemu-x86 wont run15:35
GrueMasterErm, no.15:35
janimowell if I was in charge I'd drop empathy too and the whole telepathy baggage15:35
ogra_threading issues i was told by linaro15:35
janimobut I am not15:35
GrueMasterAlien Arena on panda might be interesting though.15:35
ogra_cant make it work15:35
ogra_well, thats all about images i had :)15:35
NCommandernethack works great on ARM, what other game do you need?15:36
GrueMasterZork works too.15:36
* NCommander does wish Dwarf Fortress was opensource so he could 1. package it 2.compile it on ARM15:36
GrueMasterJust saying.15:36
ogra_well, wait until nethack gets switched to clutter too15:36
ogra_upstream has funny ideas lately15:36
ogra_to clutter the world etc15:36
janimonethack too works in a browser I hear15:38
janimowe need less apps in the image, so we have fewer bugs15:38
ogra_NCommander, move ?15:38
NCommander[topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)15:39
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)
GrueMasterSpot tested 20120207.1 desktop armhf images yesterday.  mx5 had a few issues (HDMI addon board had it confused, and START-R still doesn't see USB).15:39
GrueMasterAlso worked up a few scripts to start testing on arm server (LAMP, Ruby on Rails, suspend/resume).15:39
GrueMasterTested the 3.0.17 kernel on armadaxp.  The Marvell patches do something wacky to mmap, it fails to allocate above 2900M.15:40
GrueMasterThat bug was fixed in all other arm kernels (bug 861296).15:41
ubottuLaunchpad bug 861296 in linux-ti-omap4 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "mmap fails to allocate 2030Mb heap on ARM" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/86129615:41
GrueMasterStarting to dive into power meter testing today/tomorrow.  Hope to have some data starting next week.15:42
GrueMasterNot much else to report.  Just lots of work going on.15:42
ogra_power meter testing ?15:43
NCommander[topic] Linaro Updates (rsalveti)15:43
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro Updates (rsalveti)
* rsalveti waves15:43
GrueMasterUsing a power meter to measure system amp load while running.15:43
rsalvetiwe're all busy at connect mostly this week15:43
rsalvetibut we worked on helping fixing a bunch of multiarch related packages15:44
rsalvetiand the cross buildd is almost ready, just fixing the web interface to be easy to use15:44
ogra_GrueMaster, i was referring to the pic :)15:44
rsalvetianother good thing is that riku is now working on trying to get libreoffice to build and work for armhf15:44
* ogra_ humps rsalveti's leg15:45
rsalvetiNCommander: just make sure you send everything you had in the past15:45
rsalvetiif you didn't do it already15:45
GrueMasterSo, another duplication of effort?  Great.15:45
ogra_GrueMaster, no, a handover15:45
rsalvetinot duplication, we're working together on this15:45
NCommanderrsalveti: you have a time machine?15:45
rsalvetimeanwhile steve is working on ruby and haskell I believe15:46
rsalvetibut it's probably not critical for the desktop15:46
rsalvetishould have a better report next week, once connect is done :-)15:47
rsalvetibut that's mostly it15:47
rsalvetiI asked the freescale LT to fix the imx53 3.2 kernel15:47
rsalvetiwe'll see how it goes15:47
janimorsalveti, do you know about omap4 sgc for armhf?15:49
ogra_rsalveti, is anyone ever looking at chromium again ?15:49
rsalvetijanimo: we hope that koen will get this fixed and released soon15:49
ogra_i wonder what we should do with it, the binary in the archive is three releases old15:49
janimorsalveti, ok thanks15:49
rsalvetiI'll talk with him next week, but he was working on getting it available for angstrom15:49
rsalvetiogra_: if we get a new release, we update15:50
rsalvetiotherwise we'll just kill it  for now15:50
NCommanderanything else15:50
rsalvetiI believe we'll get it at some point, not yet sure for precise15:50
ogra_rsalveti, well, there were three (or four) new releases15:50
rsalvetiogra_: is chromium broken again?15:50
ogra_it didnt build since natty15:50
ogra_or even before15:51
rsalvetiI remember riku said it was fixed, maybe with debian, will ping him today15:51
rsalveti.. :-)15:51
ogra_i think he only made it cross buildable15:52
ogra_it still fails in the archive15:52
rsalvetiwell, if it works by cross building it there's hope to have it working natively15:52
ogra_right, iirc there were issues with ffmpeg or so15:52
ogra_riku will likely know more15:53
rsalveti#action rsalveti to follow with riku to see if chromium will get fixed15:53
meetingologyACTION: rsalveti to follow with riku to see if chromium will get fixed15:53
ogra_or micahg ... iirc he took over from riku but gave up15:53
rsalveti#action rsalveti to follow with koen at ELC to see if we'll get armhf drivers for sgx (omap3)15:53
meetingologyACTION: rsalveti to follow with koen at ELC to see if we'll get armhf drivers for sgx (omap3)15:53
NCommander[topic] AOB15:54
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
NCommanderclosing the meeting out in 315:55
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Feb  9 15:55:11 2012 UTC.15:55
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-09-15.00.moin.txt15:55
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-09-15.00.html15:55
micahgogra_: I didn't give up, just haven't had time to work on it yet17:06
ogra_ah, well17:06
ubunterodelaoxtihello world17:48
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EvilResistanceAlanBell:  chance a /query?19:53
EvilResistances/chance/can you spare time for/19:53
AlanBellEvilResistance: sure19:53
Myrttinice timing19:56
* theadmin indicates she's here and waiting for the meeting to begin.19:57
Tm_Twhatever it is you're referring to19:57
Unit193Tm_T: Funky timeout19:57
Tm_Tthat too19:58
EvilResistancei'm also waiting for the meeting to begin, just checking something for one of the items on the agenda though :P19:58
AlanBellafternoon all20:01
theadminHey everyone :)20:02
AlanBelleveryone sitting comfortably with $beverage at hand?20:02
* theadmin sure is20:02
EvilResistanceAlanBell:  check the last set of privmsgs, btw20:02
AlanBellEvilResistance: yeah, got that :)20:02
meetingologyMeeting started Thu Feb  9 20:02:35 2012 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.20:02
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired20:02
AlanBell#meetingtopic IRCC team meeting20:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRCC team meeting Meeting | Current topic:
AlanBell#meetingtopic IRCC team20:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRCC team Meeting | Current topic:
AlanBellhi all and welcome to the IRCC and team meeting20:04
AlanBellagenda is over here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda20:04
AlanBelland I think we can go fairly swiftly through the first section and on to some of the topics deferred from the last meeting20:04
AlanBellso lets start20:04
AlanBell#topic Review last meetings action items20:05
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRCC team Meeting | Current topic: Review last meetings action items
AlanBell#progress AlanBell to call for helpers to implement eir-like functionality in ubottu20:05
AlanBellyeah, I kind of failed to do that, however EvilResistance has just been talking about experimenting with some very relevant code20:05
AlanBellI will do the mail to the list this evening and we can discuss that further in an agenda item down the list20:06
AlanBell#progress meeting timeslots to be taken to the mailing list, 11:00UTC slot is in danger of being dropped20:06
Picisounds good20:06
AlanBellwe did discuss other times and picked this time for todays meeting20:06
theadmin11:00 UTC isn't really a comfortable time I beleive, sounds good for me too20:06
AlanBellI kind of need to sort out the fridge calendar properly20:06
AlanBelltheadmin: yeah, we tried and couldn't find *anyone* who liked that slot20:07
Unit193Jussi did though20:07
AlanBellI am currently thinking we should have a predictable one every other sunday evening as it is now, and a less predictable one that bounces about20:08
AlanBellnot every other Sunday, every third or fourth sunday or something20:08
AlanBell#action AlanBell to sort out fridge calendar entries20:09
meetingologyACTION: AlanBell to sort out fridge calendar entries20:09
AlanBellok, any other comments on timings?20:09
Tm_Tyeah, meeting times could move a bit occasionally20:09
AlanBell#topic Open items in the IRCC tracker20:10
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AlanBellthere has been no activity to report20:10
AlanBell#topic Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council20:10
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRCC team Meeting | Current topic: Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
AlanBellnot much bug activity since the last meeting either, so lets whip through them fairly quick20:10
AlanBell#subtopic bug 788503 IRC Guidelines too #ubuntu centric - tsimpson20:10
ubottuLaunchpad bug 788503 in ubuntu-community "IRC Guidelines too #ubuntu centric" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/78850320:10
theadminThat kind of makes sense. I think separate guidelines for -offtopic, -irc and -ops are required.20:11
AlanBellthere is a draft that should be linked to from the bug20:11
Tm_Ttheadmin: there will be one guideline to rule them all20:11
pangolintheadmin: I disagree the guidelines should be the same for all ubuntu* channels.20:12
LjLi don't think separate guidelines are required, guidelines are guidelines, we have bot factoids for more specific things20:12
pangolinI disagree, *20:12
theadminWell, either that or rule out the current guideline to be suitable for all the channels. Yeah, that sounds better.20:12
pangolinwhat is the hold up on the draft?20:12
AlanBellsomeone have a link to the draft handy?20:12
pangolinhmm, it is on a kde.pad somesuch link20:13
Tm_TI thought the draft was already approved and implemented :o20:13
pangolinTm_T: hasn't been changed on the wiki20:14
PiciThe draft should be on the wiki in /irc/ somewhere imo.20:15
AlanBellthanks Unit193, I added that to the bug20:15
AlanBellok, will have a look at that later20:15
AlanBell#subtopic bug 884671 Ubuntu IRC operator recruitment is slow and ungainly - jussi20:15
ubottuLaunchpad bug 884671 in ubuntu-community "Ubuntu IRC operator recruitment is slow and ungainly" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88467120:15
* Pici makes a note to look over the guidelines document20:16
AlanBellrecruitment is ongoing, we need to look at the other channel queues perhaps20:16
theadminThat xD I'm here because I'm a wannabe op so that's of major interest for me. I'd be happy to help out really.20:16
AlanBellanyone know any channels in need of a call for ops?20:17
EvilResistancei've put my name in for consideration for op on #ubuntu, so this was one of the items on the list that piqued my interest ;P20:17
EvilResistance(for the record)20:17
pangolinDoesn't the IRCC only do calls for the core channels?20:18
EvilResistancePici:  last 7 days, dont bother with putting me onto any ops list without further vetting20:18
AlanBellpangolin: yes20:18
theadminStuff which happens on #ubuntu nowadays is annoying, too many ciao-!list-italians (nothing we can do with them though), and huge mass of spambots and trolls :(20:18
theadminOps care about that, but not always around20:18
EvilResistancetheadmin makes a point, there have been times i've seen spam occurring, pulled !ops, and it wasnt dealt with for a significant period of time20:18
EvilResistancegenerally when freenode staffers are also not around, so going to them for emegency help doesnt work20:19
Tm_TAlanBell: eh, we had this kind of discussion going on too?20:19
AlanBellPici: just asking if there is an urgent need in any particular area20:19
* Tm_T needs to follow things more closely it seems20:19
pangolinAlanBell: not at this time IMO20:19
PiciAlanBell: I know.  My question was directed at EvilResistance.20:19
oCeanI think -server probably still lacks op coverage every now and then20:19
Tm_ToCean: I don't see ops calls there happening20:19
AlanBellTm_T: well the general bug is about how we do recruitment, which we are in the process of doing with the #lubuntu channel and others will follow20:20
PiciAn ops responsibilities are more than just answering ¡ops calls.20:20
EvilResistancePici:  i've put my name into the queue on the launchpad site just 4 days ago, i removed it about 17 days before that after putting myself in for consideration because of several issues that occurred simultaneously in that same time period20:20
Tm_TAlanBell: yeah, just that it's hidden in bug report (not mailinglist)20:20
AlanBellanyhow, lets move on, I want to get to a bunch of the main topics20:20
Tm_TPici: I aknowledge, just wondering the need (:20:21
theadminHm, aye. Even though this one is important.20:21
AlanBellTm_T: well it is a bug report which is discussed in every meeting, so not very well hidden20:21
Tm_TAlanBell: I know, I just haven't been following meetings, only mailinglist20:21
EvilResistance(including but not limited to family issues)20:21
Tm_Tand poorly that too20:22
EvilResistances/issues/emergency items/20:22
pangolinAlanBell: I think the current process is fine. IRCC makes a call, people apply, ask current ops opinions?? ,IRCC makes a decision .20:22
AlanBellTm_T: the one that I post the minutes to :)20:22
AlanBellanyhow, lets crack on20:22
AlanBell#subtopic bug 913541 there are a number of people with Ubuntu IRC cloaks who have expired from the ubuntumembers group - AlanBell20:22
ubottuLaunchpad bug 913541 in ubuntu-community "there are a number of people with Ubuntu IRC cloaks who have expired from the ubuntumembers group" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/91354120:22
AlanBellno further progress on this one, down to about 15 I think, we will do more on that soon20:22
AlanBell#subtopic bug 916247 devel wiki on ubottu.com needs some attention - AlanBell20:22
ubottuLaunchpad bug 916247 in ubuntu-community "devel wiki on ubottu.com needs some attention" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/91624720:23
PiciAre we still going to move this to wiki.u.c?20:23
AlanBellit was cleaned up which is great, and it would be nice to migrate the content on to wiki.ubuntu.com still20:23
theadminI think that'd be a good point... I didn't even know ubottu had it's own wiki o_o20:24
AlanBellI think moving it is a low priority now that it has been de-spammed20:24
AlanBelltheadmin: it only has a small number of pages http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Special:AllPages20:25
AlanBellok, lets get on to the main topics now20:26
theadminIn that case, merging it with the main wiki makes most sense20:26
AlanBell#topic The plan for the bots20:26
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRCC team Meeting | Current topic: The plan for the bots
* funkywhat grumbles. Sorry I'm late everyone20:26
AlanBellhi funkywhat o/20:26
PiciThis is a rather vauge topic.20:27
AlanBellso EvilResistance has some plans for eir-like ban timeout removals which is great20:27
funkywhatMy cheap VPS picked a choice time to decide to die20:27
AlanBellit is a vauge topic20:27
EvilResistanceAlanBell:  you should, in fact, be giving niko the credit.20:28
pangolinwhat is the plan?20:28
EvilResistancei started looking for eir-like bantracker and ban removal functionality about a month ago for #trekweb, my group's channel, and niko presented the ubotufr code.20:28
EvilResistanceBundled up in it is a Channel plugin that has integrated bantracker and ban removal20:28
LjLEvilResistance: so this would replace the existing bantracker entirely?20:29
EvilResistanceLjL:  its been a while since i've dug around in the current structure of #ubuntu and related channel bantrackers, but it could indeed.20:29
EvilResistancethus far, i've tested the +q and +b tracking functionality with success20:30
EvilResistanceand confirmed autoremoval of bans does operate20:30
LjLI'll just say, keep in mind that things need to scale. #ubuntu is big, and it's possible that something that works for smaller channels does not for it...20:30
pangolinI think we need something that would use the existing bantracker20:30
AlanBellyeah, I think so too20:30
EvilResistancepangolin:  if i might inquire, what is the current bantracker?20:30
LjLpangolin: well, the existing bantracker does have its own set of issues, and there have been previous attempts to replace it.20:30
theadminAgreed. The current one seems to work fine, though I've seen accidents (like it unbanning people ops have just banned)20:30
LjLtheadmin: that's not the bantracker, that's eir20:31
theadminWhat is eir if I may ask20:31
pangolinLjL: my concern is to not lose the data we have gathered in the bantracker.20:31
EvilResistanceeir's freenode's utility bot20:31
LjLThe bantracker is have is a private website that we use to keep logs of bans.20:31
theadminEvilResistance: Ah, thanks.20:31
LjLpangolin: yes, that should be migrated in case of a replacement.,20:31
EvilResistanceit has bantracker functionality built in.20:31
EvilResistancetheadmin:  see #defocus :P20:31
EvilResistanceits also the voice-bot there20:31
PiciEvilResistance: any new bantracker will need to have the old bans migrated into it.20:31
nikoi doubt sqlite can handle that :)20:32
theadminThat too, and that might be a problem depending on database structures.20:32
=== funkywhat is now known as funkyHat
AlanBellI am mainly thinking that ubottu needs to grow some code for ban timeouts, which might well be releated to code existing in ubottufr20:33
AlanBellor might not20:33
* Pici too20:33
theadminI apologize for my lack of knowledge (is my first time here), but isn't ubottu mainly just a factoid bot?20:34
AlanBellplus there are a heap of other plugins in the ubottufr codebase which do interesting things20:34
Myrttitheadmin: no, not really20:34
AlanBelltheadmin: that is the tip of a fairly substantial iceburg20:34
pangolintheadmin: the user facing part of it yes.20:34
EvilResistancetheadmin:  if i'm not mistaken, its also got bugtracker modules in it, amongst other supybot modules which are available20:34
theadminAh yeah the bugtracker20:34
theadminI see20:34
PiciAnd the package info stuff.20:35
Tm_Tit also nags to us20:35
Tm_Tnagity nagity nag20:35
AlanBelland the floodbot integration20:35
Unit193Generally, http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins20:35
LjLAnyway, I'd personally be looking for a short term solution right now, i.e. hacking ban removal into ubottu.20:35
pangolinI think the best thing would be to implement fresh code or translate some of niko's code if applicable and make it work with what we have.20:35
LjLThen replacing the bantracker would still be something to be considered (because it *is* old).20:36
AlanBellyup, agreed20:37
AlanBellok, so some actions arising from this?20:37
pangolinask for help from the users20:37
pangolinemail the users list and see who is willing to hack at ubottu20:37
=== funkyHat is now known as funkyWhat
pangolinor help hack it20:37
=== funkyHat_ is now known as funkyHat
AlanBellok. I will do that this evening20:38
AlanBell#action AlanBell to mail the list asking for help to add ban timeout removal to ubottu20:38
meetingologyACTION: AlanBell to mail the list asking for help to add ban timeout removal to ubottu20:38
pangolininclude what channel and who to talk to :)20:38
theadminubottu is python right?20:39
ubottutheadmin: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)20:39
AlanBellin the email, right20:39
* theadmin considers20:39
AlanBelltheadmin: yes, she is20:39
EvilResistancetheadmin:  ubottu's supybot if i remember right...20:39
pangolintheadmin: yeah20:39
LjLRemember there is still #ubuntu-bots-team. I think even though it's little used, people who want to brainstorm *should* do it there.20:39
AlanBellLjL: yes, that is where I was going to say in the mail20:39
AlanBellok, lets move on for now20:40
EvilResistanceforgive the ignorance, but which mailing list is the users mailing list?20:40
AlanBell#topic Definition of where official announcements from the IRCC will be made for those with a need for no discussion but announcements - jussi20:40
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRCC team Meeting | Current topic: Definition of where official announcements from the IRCC will be made for those with a need for no discussion but announcements - jussi
pangolinEvilResistance: ubuntu-users@list.ubuntu.com iirc20:40
pangolinah that20:40
PiciIsn't there a news/fridge thing on the planet too?20:41
jussiwell, Im here...20:41
pangolinjussi: :)20:41
AlanBellso this item from jussi was asking where we announce things20:41
AlanBelljussi: \o/20:41
pangolinPici: asking planet is a good idea also20:41
LjLLast time, someone (maybe me) was saying that those of you who blog, could agree on a "tag" to use for IRCC-related stuff...20:41
AlanBellpersonally I am kind of keen on announcing things in meetings so they are minuted, and sending to the mailing list and or news team as appropriate20:42
jussias I said in the background, I would like to have a central place all these things are - the problem with ircc'ers individual blogs are that they change, if you were looking for all the announcements now, where would you need to go, my blog, topyli's, elkys etc etc20:43
LjLjussi: hence a tag20:43
Tm_TAlanBell: meetings good, but should never be that alone (:20:43
PiciA dedicated place on the wiki could be used then20:43
LjLjussi: if you're aggregated on the planet, one could search for that, no?20:43
jussiI think we can learn from freenodes successful blogging here20:43
AlanBellyeah, I don't think blogs are so great20:43
theadminA tag for all blog's and then a central aggregator, sure20:43
Tm_Tin the end, best way to catch irc people is, tadaa, irc /:20:44
theadminThen again I don't blog lol20:44
AlanBellTm_T: yes, which is why I like IRC meetings :)20:44
Tm_TAlanBell: that way there's mailing list trace too20:44
theadminYeah IRC20:45
jussiTm_T: but irc sucks for this kinds of stuff. its hard to parse, hard for finding old stuff20:45
Tm_Tbut nothing stops doing blogs too20:45
Tm_Tjussi: I know20:45
jussidoesnt suit longer announcements.20:45
LjLBut I do kind of agree with AlanBell, the actual/official/whatever-you-call-it place to announce things should be on the mailing list (which can come on its turn from meeting minutes), the rest being accessory.20:45
theadminMailing lists are need, although... Say, are Ubuntu's mailing lists available as RSS feeds?20:45
LjLjussi: but you have minutes from the meetings on the mailing list20:45
funkyHatPlanets don't keep reasonable amount of history, I don't think, so that's probably not ideal20:45
Tm_Tjussi: don't ask how often I grep through my multigigabyte logs...20:45
AlanBellI think there is a disconnect here, between "the official place to announce stuff" and "places to get announcements read and archived by lots of people"20:47
Tm_Tirc meetings covers irc and mailinglist, people can write longer announcements to mailinglist after/before the meeting and the same message can be blogged...20:47
AlanBelland it isn't just announcements I think20:47
jussiAlanBell: minutes are one thing, blog posts are another. the blog posts are supposed to have the deeper explanation of what the ircc has done, and perhaps why. Its announcements, but with reason as well.20:48
AlanBellso things like a call for ops gets announced in a meeting, gets mailed to the list, goes to the news team20:48
PiciI don't think that there can be only one place for announcements.20:48
Tm_TPici: I agree20:49
AlanBelljussi: are you proposing specifically that the IRCC set up a blog somewhere?20:49
Tm_Tbut there has to be one starting point, from where you then spread it further20:49
PiciThe wiki makes the most sense to me.20:50
jussiAlanBell: yes, I am. making a multi user blog is minimal work.20:50
theadminAgreed. Mailing lists aren't central, blogs have the same problem to a degree... I guess if we had a central blogs/news site it would work20:50
jussiwe could have one up on ubottu.com in a short time20:50
PiciI think the IRC team landing page on the wiki is the best place.20:51
AlanBelljussi: it is minimal work, but an empty blog is a sad sad thing, we need to know if it is something we can love and care for20:51
AlanBellthis page Pici? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam20:51
Unit193I have found more info in blogs in the past20:51
jussiAlanBell: yes, agreed. that of course is something for the ircc to decide if thwey can maintain.20:51
theadminThen again blogging usually means more or less long announcements20:52
jussiAlanBell: what Im proposing is somethign like the freenode blog20:52
theadminFor something short we could probably set up a status.net setup or something...20:52
theadminI dunno even20:52
theadminjussi: We know :) AlanBell tries to make a point that not all members would care for it20:53
theadminjussi: Maybe, that is20:53
AlanBellwell we could post meeting minutes there at least20:53
Myrttifreenode does have a facebook/google+/twitter/identica-accounts for quick "oh noes, verne kicked the bucket" messages...20:54
jussiIm really sorry, need to go tend to the little one, I think Ive made my point though20:54
AlanBellthanks jussi20:54
Tm_TMyrtti: and wallop (so irc)20:54
Tm_Tjussi: give a hug from me20:54
AlanBellso it wouldn't be much effort to set up a blog, but it is one more thing to have and maintain20:54
MyrttiTm_T: if something on freenode side is broken, people don't have access to it necessarily...20:55
AlanBelland probably wouldn't get used massively often20:55
Myrttiso it has to be offsite as well20:55
Tm_TMyrtti: yup, thus not relying on just one20:55
AlanBellgah, we need to move on, I think we need to consider this and decide next meeting20:56
pangolinI think I agree with AlanBell that irc stuff should be done on irc and also with pici in backing it up with w.u.c20:56
Tm_Tanyway, I think things should be said on irc meeting, thus mailinglist, and if there's anything worth a blog post, then do that too20:56
Tm_Tbut in this order20:56
theadminSounds great for me20:56
pangolinwe have consensus.20:57
pangolinthe Borg prevail20:57
* funkyHat asplodes20:57
AlanBellso I think we can agree that "the definition of where official announcemnets will be made" is in an IRCC meeting20:57
theadminYeah :)20:57
AlanBelland then we communicate out from there, in routes which may or may not include a team blog at some point20:57
AlanBell#agreed official announcements from the IRCC will be made in IRCC meetings on IRC with minutes and articles distributed as appropriate20:58
AlanBell#topic Using bots to inform users about #ubuntu-ops (and their expected behavior there) when they are banned - LjL20:58
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRCC team Meeting | Current topic: Using bots to inform users about #ubuntu-ops (and their expected behavior there) when they are banned - LjL
AlanBellyeah, lets do that :)20:58
LjLok so my proposed announcement for the bot to give would be20:58
LjLYou have been banned from #ubuntu. If you believe this ban was in error or want to appeal it, join the channel #ubuntu-ops and discuss it. Please be calm and patient and avoid being confrontational while there. Your ban will only be resolved if the operators can be convinced you can act reasonably.20:59
LjLlike yes/no20:59
theadminReplace #ubuntu with $channel or something like that.20:59
theadminBut otherwise looks good heh20:59
theadminShould be in a privmsg imo20:59
pangolinI would remove "Your ban will only be resolved if the operators can be convinced you can act reasonably."21:00
theadminOtherwise the user might not notice it.21:00
LjLit would certainly be in PM21:00
funkyHatpangolin: why?21:00
AlanBelltheadmin: it would have to be, they have just been kicked out of the channel21:00
pangolinmight invite some to act as if they will follow the guidelines only to have the ban removed and continue trolling/whatever got them banned.21:00
theadminAlanBell: My point -- most clients close the window on part/kick21:00
LjLif the floodbots are going to do this, though, it will only work for #ubuntu. otherwise ubottu could do it I guess, but in that case I'm not sure I could implement it myself.21:01
AlanBellah, good point21:01
theadminHm yeah21:01
oCeanI agree with pangolin, not sure how to rephrase that last part yet21:02
AlanBellI think it would probably be best done by ubottu (or the floodbots would have to figure out which one is doing the messaging)21:02
pangolinotherwise I like the idea and we should get it started asap21:02
LjLAlanBell: that shouldn't be a problem, the floodbots already decide that among themselves with other kinds of messages21:02
LjLThe thing is, with the floodbots, I could do it within the next 10 minutes in all likelihood, with ubottu, who knows.21:03
AlanBellanyhow, having it in ubottu makes sense to me, could be useful for all the lubotu clones but sending to #ubuntu-irc21:03
pangolinI need to step away. thanks for the good meeting folks.21:03
AlanBell#agreed private message from bots on ban explaining how to get to #ubuntu-ops would be a good feature21:03
AlanBell#topic Concerns about using goo.gl short links in the topic/bot due to Google's privacy policy changes - LjL21:04
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRCC team Meeting | Current topic: Concerns about using goo.gl short links in the topic/bot due to Google's privacy policy changes - LjL
AlanBellok, for this one I believe we are all sorted LjL?21:04
PiciAre we?21:04
PiciOr can the rest of us be enlightened?21:04
AlanBelland yeah, we are running slightly over time21:04
LjLAbout this one, in case anyone missed the news, Google are changing their privacy policy, and they will aggregate all data from users among their various services.21:04
LjLI don't like us supporting that aggregation, and I would rather switch to a different shortener.21:05
LjLI've set up one on ubottu.com that could serve our purpose.21:05
theadminThat sounds great, I wanted to suggest using our own as well.21:05
theadminBecause that will never change rules without our approval.21:05
PiciI'd prefer something that doesn't break if ubottu.com goes down.21:05
LjLAdvantages are: it has detailed statistics we can use; it can allow things like http://ubottu.com/y/gl for the Guidelines URL, i.e. our custom shortcuts21:06
LjLPici: anything can go down, can it not?21:06
=== fenris_ is now known as Guest25990
theadminYeah that's just paranoia pici, anything goes down. Sorry, no offense but >.<21:06
AlanBellPici: well if ubottu.com goes down then ubottu won't be handing out factoids with links in them21:06
LjLAlanBell: although there is still the channel topic21:06
LjLwhich is where most "short" links are currently found21:07
AlanBellyeah, it isn't a general purpose public shortening service, just for topic links and factoid contents, with links being created by any ops21:07
theadminWhat's the point of shortening links anyway? Most lead to pages with pretty short URLs anyway, I don't really see long ones. Then again it's good to have things like that at handy21:08
LjLBut I do think when ubottu.com goes down, we have worse concerns than the links21:08
LjLlike missing the bot, the bantracker and ALL THE THINGS21:08
PiciBeacuse the topic and factoids are limited by the number of characters they can be21:08
LjLtheadmin: http://help.ubuntu.com/community/Blah is not very short ;)21:08
theadminLjL: Not really, much shorter than URLs I keep accidentally pasting from Google searches21:08
AlanBellI was tempted to get a really short URL for it by I couldn't find a nice one available21:09
AlanBellanyhow, lets move on as this topic is mostly resolved I think21:09
AlanBell#topic Rename "probation" to "induction" in the IRC operator recruitment process - AlanBell21:09
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRCC team Meeting | Current topic: Rename "probation" to "induction" in the IRC operator recruitment process - AlanBell
theadminAgreed, let's decide on ubottu.com shortener for that one and move on21:09
AlanBellwhat do you think of this?21:09
LjLwhat's in a name21:09
theadminhhmmmm... In my opinion it should be just called "testing period" :/ Neither "probation" nor "induction" make much sense to me21:10
AlanBellI think probation is a bit negative sounding21:10
Tm_Ttheadmin: testing?21:10
theadminTm_T: Isn't it just that? Testing the new op?21:10
LjLwell, as a speaker of not-English as a native language, I understand neither "probation" nor "induction", so no difference for me :P21:10
AlanBellit is more of an introductory/training period21:10
Piciprobationary period makes sense too though21:10
AlanBelltheadmin: well that would be probation21:10
Tm_Ttheadmin: we don't do any tests21:11
funkyHatprobation makes sense but I agree it does sound somewhat negative. I would prefer induction21:11
EvilResistancetheadmin:  perhaps "observation period"?  if you want to get rid of the potential condescending nature of the word "probation"21:11
theadminEvilResistance: That actually sounds good21:11
theadminThat too21:11
theadminActually much a wide topic xD21:11
Tm_TI did read induction first as introduction21:11
theadminCould call it anything21:11
LjLI do suspect it originally was intended as a period when you not only train the op, but also decide whether they're quite ready to be an op. Not sure that has ever been spelled out explicitly, but...21:12
AlanBellLjL: well to me "induction" emphasises training and introductory stuff, "probation" emphasises observation and testing and the possible failing to be accepted21:13
AlanBellwhen that isn't really what we want to be doing, we want people to be helped to be good ops21:13
PiciIts a hand-holding period. I think thats more that just observation.21:14
theadminI still wish we'd use something which'd be obvious to non-native speakers *without* google translate :D21:14
theadmin"induction" is not a word you hear often21:15
Myrttiapart from induction stoves21:15
AlanBellok, it is pretty standard terminology in the UK, I don't know what it is called in other countries when you get a job21:15
EvilResistanceAlanBell:  probationary or introductory period21:16
Tm_Tprobation here atleast21:16
LjL"introductory period" sounds good to me21:16
AlanBellyeah, that is OK21:17
oCeanyep, sounds fine21:17
Tm_TI'll slip to my other duties, bye all21:17
theadminSounds good although doesn't point out the "may get rejected" part21:17
AlanBellyeah, I don't think we need to point that out quite so loudly :)21:18
PiciI'm sure if the situation comes to that the wording of the period will be the least of our worries.21:18
Myrttiin theory all of us could be demoted if we decide to act up and burn the channel with us21:18
AlanBellindeed, we can deal with those kind of situations, I am just seeking to use more positive language21:18
AlanBellMyrtti: you could indeed ;)21:19
elky"support may be withdrawn"21:19
LjLYeah but on the other hand, if it's clear that the possibility exists especially during that period, maybe it'll make it easier if it does happen, I don't know21:19
funkyHatOk, I'm happy with introductory perido too21:19
theadminYeah. Let's have that :)21:19
AlanBellok, I think a vote is in order21:19
AlanBell#voters Pici AlanBell funkyHat21:20
meetingologyCurrent voters: AlanBell Pici funkyHat21:20
AlanBell#vote change op recruitment terminology from "probation" to "introductory period"21:20
meetingologyPlease vote on: change op recruitment terminology from "probation" to "introductory period"21:20
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)21:20
meetingology+1 received from AlanBell21:20
meetingology+1 received from Pici21:20
meetingology+1 received from funkyHat21:20
meetingologyVoting ended on: change op recruitment terminology from "probation" to "introductory period"21:20
meetingologyVotes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:021:20
meetingologyMotion carried21:20
Picitheadmin: you're not funkyHat!21:20
oCeanAlanBell: I would not mind moving the other agenda items to next meeting..21:20
AlanBelloCean: great, I was going to suggest that21:21
* Pici too21:21
theadminPici: Indeed I'm not... Sorry, didn't realize I may not cast a vote21:21
AlanBelloCean: I will mention them in the minutes mail so people see them before the next one21:21
AlanBelltheadmin: don't worry its fine, the bot is clever like that and ignored you21:21
Picitheadmin: its fine :P21:21
AlanBellnext meeting is on Sunday the something or other at 6PM21:21
funkyHatI've been impersonated before, and I'll be impersonated again ;)21:22
oCeanthanks all o/21:22
EvilResistancefunkyHat:  it happens to all of us :P21:22
AlanBellSunday 26th I think21:22
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Feb  9 21:22:27 2012 UTC.21:22
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-09-20.02.moin.txt21:22
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-09-20.02.html21:22
theadminJust to make sure, I may sit here without being a part of the Council? Or am I just so lucky to sit through a whole meeting without getting banned? :D21:22
AlanBelltheadmin: yes, it is a whole team meeting21:22
Picitheadmin: our meetings are open to everyone.21:22
AlanBelljust the council vote on things21:22
theadminAll I want is to help out as much as I can so21:22
theadminAh, great21:22
EvilResistanceas do I, and i'm not a member of the council xD21:22
AlanBellbut we want opinions and advice from everyone21:22
Picitheadmin: You may want to consider hanging out in #ubuntu-irc too, its not *that* busy of a channel, but there are some miscellaneous IRC things mentioned in there every few days.21:23
EvilResistancePici:  so #ubuntu-irc is a lurking-allowed zone?21:23
theadmin:) I'm glad the team is so open then... Wish they were like that with the distro itself. Doubt that many would vote on "switch to unity"..21:23
EvilResistancei always assumed it wasnt21:23
theadminEvilResistance: #ubuntu-ops isn't21:24
theadminEvilResistance: -irc is21:24
AlanBelllurking is totally allowed there21:24
EvilResistancewell that i know, theadmin :P21:24
EvilResistanceAlanBell:  then i just found another channel to stay perpetually connected to :P21:24
theadminHeh, I usually /part if I can't keep track of the channel... Long as I have no real duties in the channel21:25
Unit193They{ll generally listen to you in the meeting even if they think you are weird (Just look this direction!)21:27
theadminThe only weird thing is the word "weird"... i before e >.<21:28
theadminOther than that nothing is :P21:28
funkyHatI dunno, Unit193 is pretty weird.21:29
pangolinThat is how we like him21:31
pangolinaka medium rare21:31
theadminOh well no point in just idling here.21:39
=== bladernr` is now known as bladernr_afk

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