[00:16] <tjagoda> hm
[00:16] <tjagoda> Ubuntu One Windows Client is stuck in an infinite "Getting Information" phase
[00:17] <greg-g> its downloading the web!
[00:18] <rick_h> woot!
[00:19] <tjagoda> its a valid login
[00:19] <tjagoda> and then it just chills out
[00:20] <tjagoda> Like I have the largest password in recorded history and it's transferring it one character at a time over 18 relayed 56K modems.
[00:23] <tjagoda> oh yay
[00:23] <tjagoda> its a bug with no current fix
[00:23] <tjagoda> =(
[00:31] <brousch> anyone have a good json viewer?
[00:31] <tjagoda> YOUR EYES
[00:31] <tjagoda> DUH
[00:31] <jrwren> yeah.
[00:31] <brousch> my eyes are bleeding
[00:31] <jrwren> wtf json viewer?
[00:31] <brousch> it is solid text
[00:34] <rick_h> brousch: there's a good json plugin in Chrome
[00:34] <rick_h> brousch: and what's his name posted some plugin snippets for making vim pretty print json and encode it back
[00:35] <rick_h> brousch: http://blog.pault.ag/post/15698933492/json-vim-love
[00:37] <brousch> found this http://jsonlint.com/
[00:39] <brousch> how would i use that vim thing?
[00:39] <rick_h> brousch: so you need to grab the two python scripts and put them in ~/bin or whatever you use for custom commands in your $PATH
[00:39] <rick_h> and then create the vim shortcuts he points out in there for your .vimrc
[00:39] <rick_h> then download your .json file and run the expand command, view/edit, and then runthe compress command
[00:40] <brousch> geez
[00:40] <rick_h> ?
[00:40] <brousch> ah, i get it
[00:41] <brousch> woohoo, i have my scrape in valid json
[02:18] <Wolfger> rick_h: snap-l: is there no newer version of pycurl for version of Python > 2.5? Or is my problem strictly with the Windows .exe installer?
[02:18] <Wolfger> a little disheartening that pycurl seems last-update 3.5 years ago
[02:19] <tjagoda> awesome
[02:19] <tjagoda> Unity on windows eventually moves
[02:19] <tjagoda> I just have to leave it alone for like 2 hours
[02:19] <tjagoda> UBUNTU I LOVE HOW YOUR QUALITY WORKS. ='(
[02:20] <rick_h> Wolfger: what are you using it for?
[02:20] <rick_h> Wolfger: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pycurl/7.18.1 says 7.18.1 :)
[02:20] <rick_h> Wolfger: if you're just fetching urls, use requests instead
[02:20] <rick_h> Wolfger: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/requests
[02:22] <Wolfger> rick_h: I downloaded 7.18.2, and there's source for 7.19.0
[02:23] <Wolfger> I'm using it for this: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/guides/2010/04/tutorial-use-twitters-new-real-time-stream-api-in-python.ars
[02:23] <rick_h> Wolfger: ah, yea so you need streaming support then yea, pycurl you go
[02:24] <rick_h> don't know requests supports that at all
[04:20] <snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/java/comments/pghyp/homework_replace_a_word_in_a_line_of_text/c3p6jg5
[04:20] <snap-l> Apparently nobody liked my solution
[12:53] <Wolfger> morning
[12:54] <brousch> yep
[12:54] <brousch> 5:15AM "gotta go poopies" wake up from the boy
[12:54] <rick_h> I need a service that will send a flaming bag of poo to a requested person on the internet
[12:54] <rick_h> http://tumblr.atbrox.com/post/17312856268/small-advice-for-test-driven-development-in-python
[12:54] <rick_h> brousch: hey, that's cool
[12:54] <brousch> rick_h: i think the postal services frowns on that
[12:55] <rick_h> Right now we're still at the "grunt...grunt grrrrr"
[12:55] <rick_h> "Do you have to go poop Michael? Want to sit on the potty?"
[12:55] <brousch> we made great strides in the last month
[12:55] <rick_h> "grrr...nope..."
[12:55] <brousch> 1. shower in the middle of the night if he pooped in bed
[12:56] <Wolfger> brousch: then don't mail it. Personal delivery
[12:56] <brousch> 2. star wars lego advent calendar. open a door every time he done good
[12:56] <brousch> Wolfger: crowd source it? that might work
[12:56] <brousch> http://lego.wikia.com/wiki/7958_Star_Wars_Advent_Calendar
[12:57]  * Wolfger runs out to register flamingpoocloud.com
[12:57] <Wolfger> and flamingpoocrowd.com
[12:57] <brousch> technically i think it could work. legally ... i don't want to think about it
[12:58] <Wolfger> rick_h: so when I asked about pycurl last night, why did nobody mention "pip"?
[12:58] <rick_h> Wolfger: huh? You didn't ask "How can I install packages in python"
[12:58] <brousch> rick_h: how about a virtual flaming poo. maybe a scratch-n-sniff postcard with a nasty picture?
[12:58] <rick_h> you just asked "Where is the latest pycurl"
[12:58] <snap-l> rick_h: I think we have our start-up: Flamingbagofpoo.com
[12:58] <Wolfger> I mean... it didn't work, it errored out, but it would have been very nice and simple if it *had* worked. :-)
[12:58] <rick_h> Wolfger: yea, pycurl needs to compile so you'd have to install the header files for it to pip install it
[12:59] <brousch> sudo apt-get install python-pycurl
[12:59] <snap-l> If you're going to move to doctests because other stuff is hard, you're doing it wrong.
[12:59] <Wolfger> brousch: I was doing this on Win7, so that command would have done nothing for me :-p
[13:00] <brousch> ew
[13:00] <brousch> download virtualbox. install kubuntu VM. sudo apt-get install python-pycurl
[13:00] <snap-l> Or install activestate python and hope they have it packaged
[13:01] <snap-l> bbiab
[13:01] <Wolfger> snap-l: I <3 ActiveState, and no they don't.
[13:01] <brousch> Wolfger: did they show you virtualenvs?
[13:01] <Wolfger> the who what now?
[13:02] <brousch> slackers
[13:02] <Wolfger> I just asked one question, got 2 answers, and went on about my bidness
[13:03] <brousch> pip and virtualenvs go together like peanut butter and jelly
[13:03] <Wolfger> but after learning about pip, I figure I should have got 3 answers and one of them should have been "try pip", but oh well. :-)
[13:04] <Wolfger> anyhow, virtualbox and Kubuntu is not really the path I want to take. The idea is I want whatever I do to be usable on both Win a *nix
[13:04] <Wolfger> s/a/and/
[13:04] <brousch> yeah, i was just kidding with that
[13:04] <brousch> but virtualenvs are a real thing
[13:05] <brousch> a self-contained python environment
[13:05] <Wolfger> so teach me
[13:05] <brousch> so you can install and uninstall python modules for your project without mucking up your system python
[13:06] <brousch> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/virtualenv
[13:07] <brousch> unzip it, cd to it, python setup.py install
[13:08] <brousch> then you can create virtualenvs with: `virtualenv --distribute MyVirtualEnv`
[13:08] <brousch> --distribute tells it to install pip
[13:47] <brousch> geekers. i had a big video artifact in the middle of my screen i couldn't get rid of so i started closing all my programs to shut down and restart. the last thing i closed was firefox and that got rid of the artifact
[13:56] <snap-l> Wolfger: Oh, that sucks
[13:56] <snap-l> Definitely SOL-ville, then
[13:57] <brousch> what'd i miss?
[14:04] <snap-l> brousch: Reading scrollback
[14:06] <brousch> i lost scrollback before 8:47
[14:06] <brousch> was helping Wolfger and wondered if i missed something
[14:07] <snap-l> Nah, nothing important
[14:08] <snap-l> was just commiserating that ActiveState doesn't have PyCurl packaged
[14:09] <brousch> why use activestate instead of regular python?
[14:19] <Wolfger> honestly? I dunno. Habit.
[14:20] <Wolfger> ActiveState has always been the best Perl solution on Windows
[14:20] <rick_h> brousch: it's what happens when a perl guy goes to python :P
[14:20] <Wolfger> lol
[14:25] <snap-l> rick_h: This keyboard is faking me out. :)
[14:25] <rick_h> ?
[14:25] <snap-l> Trying to find the page up / page down keys, and they're near the edge
[14:25] <snap-l> which is where the number pad goes. :)
[14:25] <rick_h> snap-l: ah, the 10less part of it lol
[14:25] <snap-l> Yeah
[14:25] <rick_h> snap-l: so you're not allowed to think about it until day 3
[14:26] <rick_h> I find that's how long it takes me to adjust
[14:26] <snap-l> OK
[14:26] <rick_h> :)
[14:26] <rick_h> you have to get past the "it's just different" part to evaluate
[14:26] <snap-l> I feel like one of those hacker movies, though. I can hear myself type again. :)
[14:27] <rick_h> you'll tune it out :)
[14:27] <snap-l> OK
[14:27] <rick_h> think of it like haptic feedback on an iphone
[14:27] <snap-l> Not helping. :)
[14:39] <brousch> ok, in vim 'G' goes to the end of the file. i need '1G' to go to the first line?
[14:39] <snap-l> gg
[14:40] <rick_h> 1gg
[14:40] <snap-l> (and no, I'm not saying "good game", I mean gg)
[14:40] <brousch> ok, that's better
[14:40] <rick_h> 271gg
[14:40] <snap-l> gg defaults to the first line of the fil
[14:40] <snap-l> e
[14:40] <rick_h> any line nubmer
[14:41] <rick_h> oh yea, no line number gg does top
[14:41] <brousch> ok, that will work
[14:41] <snap-l> also 271G will go to line 271
[14:41] <rick_h> sorry, I read that as "how to do get to a XG line
[14:42] <rick_h> but yea, gg to of file, any #gg will jump to that line (very handy for test failures/exception tracebacks)
[14:42] <brousch> my tests never fail
[14:42] <brousch> mostly because they do not exist
[14:42] <rick_h> I'll leave that one alone
[14:42] <snap-l> if True == True:
[14:42] <snap-l> ;)
[14:42] <snap-l> self.assert(True==True)
[14:43] <brousch> i've been using vim exclusively. the vim book as my bathroom reading is helping
[14:43] <snap-l> TMI
[14:43] <Wolfger> brousch: 1G is first line, 10G is line 10, etc
[14:43] <rick_h> brousch: awesome!
[14:43] <Wolfger> oh, sorry, I see snap-l already said that
[14:43] <rick_h> Wolfger: yea, but gg is faster than shift-g imo
[14:44] <rick_h> but that's preference
[14:44] <brousch> yeah, it is
[14:44] <rick_h> http://greenteapress.com/complexity/ looks interesting
[14:44] <snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, gg is hard-wired for me over 1G
[14:44] <rick_h> free pdf
[14:45] <brousch> sort of from o'reilly?
[14:45] <Wolfger> gg > 1G (2 vs 3 keystrokes). I'll try to remember that one.
[14:45] <snap-l> brousch: They publish his books
[14:45] <snap-l> The think stats book is pretty good, although I'm a little disappointed that it's not self-0cntained
[14:46] <snap-l> you'll need to have a network connection to head to wikipedia for some of the concepts
[14:46] <rick_h> oh, how much of the code/etc is "go download it here"
[14:46] <rick_h> yea, same here. I've not gotten very far into it and I think that's part of the reason
[14:46] <jrwren> snap-l: <3 U http://www.reddit.com/r/java/comments/pghyp/homework_replace_a_word_in_a_line_of_text/c3p6jg5
[14:46] <snap-l> and unfortunately wikipedia is not particularly easy to get into if you're not familiar with the concepts.
[14:47] <snap-l> jrwren: Thank you. :)
[14:48] <jrwren> brousch: no need for virtual box. just run testdrive, choose kubuntu, install python-pycurl :)
[14:48] <snap-l> jrwren: You'd be surprised how much Java code I've seen that does shells like that.
[14:48] <brousch> jrwren: testdrive runs on windows?
[14:48] <snap-l> like shelling out and doing ls.
[14:50] <jrwren> windows?  oh sorry. I just assumed you have linux available.
[14:50] <jrwren> plus: gg is starcraft meme.
[14:52] <brousch> jrwren: pity poor Wolfger and his Windows usage
[14:53] <Wolfger> :-p
[14:53] <Wolfger> Is it bad of me to want to write something that works on both OS's?
[14:54] <brousch> yes. that makes windows more useful
[14:54] <brousch> you must release for linux-only
[14:54] <snap-l> Wolfger: What's your target audience?
[14:54] <Wolfger> snap-l: Twitter users
[14:55] <jrwren> its not bad of you.
[14:55] <brousch> a desktop client for twitter?
[14:55] <jrwren> but you've run into a limit of your cross platform system of choice.
[14:55] <jrwren> purhaps another system would be better suited?
[14:56] <Wolfger> brousch: The working name of what I want to write is Twitter Hashtag Chat (#THC)
[14:56] <Wolfger> basically I want to write a client that can turn any twitter hashtag into and IRC-style chat
[14:56] <jrwren> Wolfger: ++
[14:56] <jrwren> and my followers list should be an irc style chat
[14:56] <jrwren> and it should be right in irssi. lets patch irssi :)
[14:57] <Wolfger> :-)
[14:57] <brousch> these days i tend to think like "if it can be a webapp, it should be a webapp"
[14:57] <jrwren> funny, i think "if it can be an ipad app, it should be an ipad app"
[14:58] <jrwren> i had twitter in irssi working via some convoluted irc-xmpp-twitter double proxy. it didn't work very well
[14:58] <brousch> otherwise you have to do it for 3 different desktop platforms and 2 different mobile platforms
[14:58] <jrwren> yes, but you can leverage those 5 platforms to the fullest. Web is lowest common denominator.
[14:58] <jrwren> esp. if web means ancient IE browsers too.
[14:59]  * Wolfger cringes
[14:59] <brousch> i am good with lowest common denominator
[15:00] <snap-l> I'm good with LCD, as long as we agree on a reasonable lower bound. :)
[15:00] <jrwren> i'm not.
[15:00] <brousch> give me phonegap or give me death!
[15:00] <jrwren> phonegap isn't LCD.
[15:00] <jrwren> ie7 is LCD :[
[15:00] <snap-l> IE is not a reasonable lower bound. ;)
[15:00] <Wolfger> ie7 is mgcd
[15:00] <Wolfger> Most Godawful Common Denominator
[15:01] <brousch> anyone using ie7 can go suck an egg
[15:01] <snap-l> IE7 is a great bootstrapping device
[15:01] <snap-l> for heading to getfirefox
[15:01] <snap-l> or chrome. :)
[15:02] <Wolfger> The webapp idea does have some merit... I have no issue with telling IE7 users to suck an elf.
[15:02] <brousch> ie8 is available for winxp
[15:03] <Wolfger> The major problem with a webapp, though, is that at some point in time, if what I write is any good, I'll need professional hosting
[15:03] <snap-l> Wolfger: Regard that as a goal, not a roadblock
[15:04] <jrwren> why is that a problem?
[15:04] <jrwren> hosting is CHEAP
[15:04] <snap-l> ++
[15:04] <Wolfger> it is?
[15:04] <jrwren> hell, free... get the free heroku dyno
[15:04] <tjagoda> Good morning fellow windows enthusiasts.
[15:04] <rick_h> yep
[15:04] <brousch> google app engine is free
[15:04] <snap-l> Amazon is cheap
[15:04] <Wolfger> I guess i haven't looked at hosting in a while... but used to be that the free/cheap stuff was not suitable for anything other than a blog :-p
[15:05] <rick_h> and I think amazon still has the free mini ec2
[15:05] <brousch> amazon is like $15/mo
[15:05] <brousch> webfaction is cheap. $8.50/mo
[15:06] <snap-l> Wolfger: So there are options for web hosting
[15:06] <snap-l> Hell, if you need part of a linode instance, I can set you up an account.
[15:07] <brousch> Wolfger: i also worry about scaling. a couple of my ideas would require a lot of resources if they got popular
[15:07] <Wolfger> Yeah... but even $8.50 a month is over $100 a year to pay so that other people can benefit from my hard work. Doesn't seem right. Maybe I'm just cheap... :-p
[15:07] <rick_h> meh, scale when you need to
[15:07] <rick_h> at least then you can justify the costs
[15:07] <jrwren> GAE is free to a point, just like heroku.
[15:07] <snap-l> Wolfger: You're fooling yourself
[15:08] <Wolfger> snap-l: probably :-)
[15:08] <jrwren> Wolfger: put up ads, get some of that $ back.
[15:08] <snap-l> Wolfger: Look at scaling up as a goal, not a roadblock
[15:08] <snap-l> scaling up is a nice problem to have
[15:09] <snap-l> design with scalability in mind, of course, but don't let that deter you.
[15:09] <snap-l> That's like worrying that Twitter will purchase your hard work (or clone it)
[15:09] <snap-l> I can think of worse problems to have
[15:10] <snap-l> That's a sign of success IMHo
[15:11] <snap-l> pep talk over. :)
[15:12] <jrwren> you don't even have to design with scalability in mind in the HIP sense. Look at stack overflow. their architecture is based on a 10+ yr old idea of "scaling" and it works well.
[15:12] <jrwren> ignore the trends and do what works.
[15:12] <rick_h> exactly, every problem has it's issues, but you'd be surprised how effective you can get to with just the normal scaling tricks/know how
[15:15] <brousch> jrwren: do you use heroku?
[15:16] <jrwren> not for prod
[15:16] <jrwren> but some teammates do.
[15:16] <jrwren> i just play/test with heroku right now
[15:16] <jrwren> but I use it enough to know that I ove it.
[15:16] <jrwren> LVOE IT
[15:17] <jrwren> wow, typing.
[15:17] <rick_h> hah, he's so in love he can't even say it
[15:17] <rick_h> yea, I'm nervous with how it would price at scale, but you're just hosting a normal app you can deploy elsewhere if you get there
[15:18] <snap-l> Way to instill confidence: 'Like "real" programming languages, Bash has functions, though in a somewhat limited implementation.'
[15:18] <brousch> looks much less wonky than GAE
[15:18] <rick_h> brousch: yea, because you're not really specific to their api as much
[15:19] <jrwren> snap-l: where do you find this shit?
[15:19] <jrwren> i've no idea what bash limitations bash functions have over any other lang
[15:20] <jrwren> i think the huge difference for me is with GAE you have to remodel your data to fit what GAE gives you.  With heroku you get to use postgresql. I LOVE Postgresql
[15:20] <rick_h> yea, bonus points for that being the default!
[15:21] <jrwren> i recently learned about postgresql hstore and loved it more.
[15:21] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, it's pretty slick
[15:21] <jrwren> and the json coming in postgresql 9.2 looks so awesome.
[15:21] <rick_h> still not sure I'd go that route or just use a key/val store elsewhere, but the fact that you can tie it into a query with your relational data is sweetness
[15:22] <jrwren> rick_h: and its indexed, or can be indexed.
[15:22] <brousch> i dislike managing my own server which is why i look at GAE. i love these cloud services that are managed by someone else
[15:22] <snap-l> jrwren: I use this thing called Google. :)
[15:22] <rick_h> jrwren: right
[15:23] <rick_h> brousch: yea, ep.io gondor.io heroku ... a whole world out there for python apps
[15:23] <rick_h> heroku seems the most complete though
[15:24] <brousch> i watched a talk by one of the ep.io guys. it was kind of scary
[15:24] <Wolfger> sounds like I need to do some research tonight...
[15:24] <rick_h> heh
[15:24] <brousch> doing some crazy stuff a low level
[15:25] <rick_h> well yea, when it becomes your job to scale others...need to get your @#$ together
[15:25] <brousch> http://blip.tv/djangocon/deployment-daemons-and-datacenters-5573370
[15:25] <brousch> very little django in that talk ;)
[15:27] <rick_h> oh thank goodness, finally someone else says 0MQ isn't a message queue
[15:28] <snap-l> rick_h: But but but, it says Message Queue right on the tin. :)
[15:28] <jrwren> its not an MQ?
[15:29] <rick_h> it's more a socket you build on...
[15:29] <rick_h> fancy socket with built in awesome bits, but 0MQ is a horrible name for it imo
[15:29] <jrwren> but you write data to the socket and it sits there waiting for someone to read it
[15:29] <jrwren> that is by def a queue
[15:30] <rick_h> right, but it's not rabbitmq or other mq ootb. You write the bits that make all that happen
[15:30] <rick_h> it's a level below MQ and above socket
[15:30] <jrwren> i see
[15:30] <jrwren> you don't write the bits to make it queue though, right?
[15:30] <rick_h> kind of, there's built in, but you define/set it up and how the queue works
[15:30] <rick_h> it's like MQ lego blocks I guess
[15:31] <jrwren> cool
[15:31] <rick_h> yes, it's built for building queues
[15:31] <snap-l> Sounds a little petty, personally
[15:31] <rick_h> meh, try it out and let me know if you want to put it in the same board as rabbit and such
[15:31] <snap-l> (the assertion that 0mq isn't a "true" MQ)
[15:31] <rick_h> it's a drastic different tool
[15:32] <rick_h> it's like saying that you can write files with cat...must be an editor
[15:32] <snap-l> it's not?
[15:32] <rick_h> when I list out editors for linux, I"ll have vi, eclipse, cat
[15:32] <rick_h> now, do you really think cat belongs in that list?
[15:33] <snap-l> emacs is just a fancy way of calling cat. :)
[15:33] <rick_h> totally, which is how 0MQ is a "message queue"
[15:33] <snap-l> Editor Making Accessing Cat Simple.
[15:34] <rick_h> heh
[15:35] <snap-l> http://www.zeromq.org/docs:welcome-from-amqp
[15:35] <snap-l> I think that's the major difference right there.
[15:35] <snap-l> similar to XML vs JSON. ;)
[15:35] <jrwren> rick_h: you did see snap-l's string replace in java today, right?
[15:35] <jrwren> or yesterday
[15:35] <rick_h> I think this is it: AMQP is a family of messaging protocols, while ÃMQ is a library of messaging functionality. You do not use AMQP directly but rather download and use a specific AMQP implementation such as OpenAMQ or RabbitMQ.
[15:36] <rick_h> jrwren: yea
[15:36] <snap-l> I love how the java folks essentially voted that comment into oblivion
[15:37] <snap-l> Totally took it seriously.
[15:37] <rick_h> well it was a bit of a crapping on some student trying to do homework :P
[15:37] <jrwren> NO HOMEWORK!
[15:37] <snap-l> True, I was being a dick
[15:37] <rick_h> I mean, did you expect it to be voted to the top?
[15:37] <snap-l> rick_h: Oh hell no
[15:38] <snap-l> I expected a little more "hah hah, no"
[15:38] <snap-l> and not "You're doing it wrong"
[15:38] <rick_h> true
[15:45] <jrwren> on /. it would be 5 "Funny"
[15:48] <snap-l> On hacker news, it would be lead story. ;)
[15:48] <snap-l> MAN WRITES SHITTY JAVA CODE. COMMENCE THE FLOGGING
[15:52] <Wolfger> that's news?
[15:53] <snap-l> just accidentally discovered my new favorite vim shortcut: CTRL-w o
[16:01] <_stink_> ahh nice
[16:03] <brousch> speaking of _stink_ http://webctor.com/articles/fart_facts_infographic,659,1.html
[16:03] <_stink_> i'm so glad this is now going to be part of my workstation's network log
[16:03] <rick_h> huh?
[16:04] <brousch> i wasn't going to paste it here, but _stink_ spoke up just after i read it
[16:04] <_stink_> glad i could help
[16:14] <tjagoda> ooh, sysadmin opening at geeknet
[16:14] <snap-l> tjagoda: link?
[16:15] <tjagoda> http://thinkgeek.theresumator.com/apply/ju71ZO/System-Administrator-Geeknet.html
[16:15] <tjagoda> I might apply
[16:16] <tjagoda> I dont have much load balancing experience though
[16:17] <snap-l> Looks like they folded the position I used to have into  something a little more all-encompasing
[16:19] <tjagoda> Good company, or company of douches?
[16:19] <snap-l> tjagoda: Definitely apply for that if you think you're interested
[16:19] <snap-l> Good company. They left me, I didn't leave them
[16:20] <snap-l> There was some definite political foo that happened when I was let go. It's probably a lot different now than when I was there.
[16:20] <snap-l> But Jacob was one of the best bosses I've worked with. Extremely fair, and knows what he wants
[16:22] <tjagoda> One of those "we're eliminating this position" let go's?
[16:23] <snap-l> Company was going through staff reductions to save costs.
[16:23] <snap-l> Was also around the time that Hemos and Nate Oostendorp were let go from the company.
[16:24] <snap-l> There were several rounds of layoffs, unfortunately
[16:25] <snap-l> But, in all honesty, it was a great experience.
[16:28] <snap-l> I would apply for it, save for I'm not really that good with administration, and the on-call cycle was brutal.
[16:28]  * snap-l does not deal well with sleep-dep
[16:30] <tjagoda> Do I get free/discounted thinkgeek stuff if hired?
[16:31] <snap-l> FNORD.
[16:59] <jrwren> did you work with wolf?
[17:01] <jrwren> my coworkers were not amused by my amusement that nodejs is just a js port of libev/ev.POD
[17:02] <jrwren> *sigh*
[17:02] <_stink_> hah
[17:02] <rick_h> jrwren: oh well
[17:03] <snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, wolf was there when i was there.
[17:04] <jrwren> snap-l: how was it working with Wolf?
[17:04] <snap-l> jrwren: Didn't work directly with him, but he's definitely a very smart person
[17:04] <rick_h> hmm, the laptop is rocking on the coffee shop table...wtf. Case warp?
[17:04] <snap-l> also pretty eccentric
[17:05] <snap-l> rick_h: Ruh roh
[17:05] <brousch> rick_h: lost a foot?
[17:05] <snap-l> my sis-in-law managed to warp a laptop. The top of the screen was melted
[17:06] <snap-l> rick_h: Could also be a warped table. ;)
[17:06] <rick_h> snap-l: I suppose, I haven't noticed it before
[17:06] <rick_h> brousch: no, all feet accounted for
[17:06] <rick_h> ugh, annoying
[17:08] <jrwren> i'm watching that video posted earlier.http://blip.tv/djangocon/deployment-daemons-and-datacenters-5573370
[17:08] <jrwren> he said, "we can't generate a password file with 25000 usernames"
[17:09] <jrwren> but I don't see why not. I used to do it with 36000 usernames.
[17:09] <jrwren> its really not a big deal at all
[17:09] <rick_h> I think for them it's a matter of sync/write contention/updating/etc
[17:09] <snap-l> I think once you get above 100, it's time to start thinking about LDAP.
[17:09] <rick_h> since they've got such a big back end and it sounds like the effort of getting that going is a pita
[17:10] <rick_h> but yea, I thought that was strange at first
[17:10] <jrwren> i see, its the change.
[17:10] <jrwren> you don't want to do it every time a new person signs up for your service.
[17:10] <jrwren> that makes good sense
[17:10] <jrwren> ty
[17:10] <Wolfger> Time warp. I come back from lunch and there's all sorts of timestamps on irccloud... Today seems to be speeding through the year 4078.
[17:19] <Wolfger> and I see people have been talking about me behind my back.
[17:19] <rick_h> pretty much
[17:19] <Wolfger> pretty sneaky, not using my nick so I wouldn't get the alert :-p
[17:20] <snap-l> Wolfger: Wolf, not Wolfger. :)
[17:20] <snap-l> It's not my fault that I've worked with both of you. :)
[17:23] <Wolfger> somehow, I think it *is* your fault.
[17:23] <jrwren> i was about to say???
[17:27] <snap-l> I hope the week is going well for you so far! I'm just getting in touch to ask
[17:27] <snap-l> if you're in need of any freelance writing at Craig Maloney - if so, it'd be an
[17:27] <snap-l> honor to help out and I would love to get involved if you have any need for me.
[17:27] <snap-l> And all they ask for is a link
[17:27] <snap-l> Love form-letter scams. :)
[17:27] <rick_h> lol
[17:27] <_stink_> write back and tell them how terribly your week is going.
[17:28] <Wolfger> What, you don't want any freelance writing over there at Craig Maloney?
[17:29] <snap-l> Yes, please ghost-write all of my blog entries for me for the cost of my immortal SEO
[17:30] <snap-l> Should respond with "That would be great. I was going to blog on how to make NP = P. Here's a wikipedia link."
[17:31] <snap-l> "I'll gladly post your article if you can conclusively prove NP = P"
[17:31] <_stink_> heh
[17:31] <Wolfger> That's easy
[17:32] <Wolfger> where N=1
[17:32] <Wolfger> :-)
[17:32] <Wolfger> oh, we weren't doing simple algebra?
[17:32] <snap-l> Wolfger: no
[17:43] <jrwren> did you ever fix your pycurl problems?
[17:47] <Wolfger> jrwren: No, I gave up in frustration. My brain also wasn't working all that well last night.
[17:47] <Wolfger> OK, who's got the Little Monsters beta invites? http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/08/tech/social-media/lady-gaga-social-little-monsters/index.html
[17:48] <Wolfger> jrwren: and people today are convincing me to go the web route, so setting up pycurl on Win 7 may be a completely moot point.
[17:50] <jrwren> web? yuk.
[17:50] <jrwren> how about C++?
[17:51] <jrwren> QT runs nicely on all platforms :)
[17:51] <jrwren> and C++11 is a rather nice language
[17:54] <snap-l> jrwren: Is that compared with previous iterations of C++, or on it's own merits ? :)
[17:55] <jrwren> prev C++
[17:55] <jrwren> its own merits still stand. FAST low level shit
[17:55] <jrwren> Wolfger: pycurl looks abandonded. is it abandoned or just "done"
[17:56] <Wolfger> I was wondering how long it would be til somebody mentioned C++11 in here...
[17:57] <Wolfger> I was thinking pycurl looked abandoned too. Unusual to see no updates in 3 years
[17:58] <Wolfger> Of course, I was trying to install it to follow along with a 2 year old tutorial
[17:58] <Wolfger> The tech world moves too fast and/or I move too slow :-p
[18:01] <jrwren> yeah, that tutorial doesn't work anyway. the auth model is different now
[18:05] <Wolfger> well then Google should remove it from the first page of search results :-p
[18:05] <jrwren> lol
[18:05] <Wolfger> I was like "wow, that sounds incredibly pertinent to me"
[18:06] <snap-l> Google is just giving you want you want
[18:31] <brousch> rezound bummer http://www.droid-life.com/2012/02/09/htc-details-ice-cream-sandwich-upgrade-schedule-rezound-not-in-the-first-batch/
[18:38] <snap-l> brousch: I wonder what makes CDMA such a beast to support
[18:39] <snap-l> because it seems anything on Verizon gets it right up the arse
[18:39] <snap-l> Amybe the problem is Verizon all-along.
[18:46] <jcastro> snap-l: because the rest of the world uses GSM
[18:46] <brousch> att and sprint use gsm?
[18:47] <jcastro> att does
[18:47] <jcastro> I am pretty sure sprint does
[18:47] <rick_h> I thought sprint was a bastard cdma thing
[18:47] <jcastro> oh I am wrong
[18:47] <jcastro> it's like custom CDMA
[18:47] <rick_h> right
[18:47] <brousch> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_wireless_communications_service_providers
[18:48] <jcastro> This is why I had to import my Nexus. :(
[18:49] <brousch> so ATT and T-mobile are the biggest GSM in the USA
[18:50] <rick_h> they're really the only two which is why ATT buying T-mobile made sense
[18:51] <brousch> cdma was part of the problem with the earlier galaxy nexus aosp thing http://androidcommunity.com/google-clarifies-cdma-debacle-still-supporting-developer-phones-not-publishing-aosp-code-20120206/
[18:51] <snap-l> Yeah, it seems that CDMA is preventing Android folks from having nice things.
[18:52] <brousch> might be time to switch
[18:56] <Wolfger> speaking of Androids.... I got a text last night that 2.3 is available for my Galaxy S now. Anybody have opinions about upgrading from 2.2 to 2.3?
[18:57] <rick_h> Wolfger: it's nice
[18:57] <Wolfger> Specifically, I'm worried that newer OS on same hardware might be a dog
[18:57] <rick_h> naw
[18:57] <Wolfger> ok, cool
[18:59] <brousch> i run 2.3 on my original droid. it's no slower than 2.2
[19:02] <Wolfger> I also hear from some people that I should root the damned thing :-p
[19:02] <rick_h> heh
[19:03] <_stink_> yeah, AT&T is telling Captivate owners that 2.3 is available
[19:03] <Wolfger> took so long to get 2.2, I didn't think we'd ever get 2.3
[19:04] <Wolfger> and I was so unimpressed with 2.1 -> 2.2 when I finally got it that I didn't care
[19:05] <jrwren> on iOS things get faster with new revs :p
[19:05] <rick_h> jrwren: riiight...did they ever get ios4 running on those 3gs devices without it sucking donkey balls?
[19:05] <jrwren> its likely there are more optimizations in the newer build
[19:05] <jrwren> rick_h: yeah, i ran it for yrs.
[19:05] <jrwren> ios4.1 fixed tons and 4.2 fixed even more and was very fast
[19:05] <jrwren> and ios5 runs great on 3gs too
[19:06] <Wolfger> years?
[19:06] <Wolfger> by my estimation, iOS 4 is < 2 years old
[19:06] <Wolfger> since it came out right before I got my Captivate...
[19:08] <snap-l> Guh, sinuses are kicking into overdrive
[19:09] <Wolfger> Go, sinuses, go!
[19:09] <snap-l> Nooooooooooooooooooo
[19:16] <jrwren> huh?
[19:16] <jrwren> oh.
[19:16] <jrwren> i ran it for as long as it was out. how is htat :)
[19:17] <jrwren> i always ran current and it always got faster with the exception of 3.2->4.0
[19:17] <Wolfger> Hmm.
[19:18] <Wolfger> The skeptic in me wonders if that was a neat trick... Make 4.0 a dog so that each subsequent revision makes it better, and people will not notice that 4.2 < 3.2 because 4.2 > 4.1 > 4.0
[19:19] <Wolfger> Not saying 4.2 < 3.2, just speculating
[19:19] <jrwren> could be.
[19:20] <jrwren> but i doubt it.
[19:20] <Wolfger> I'm convinced Apple's genius is more in manipulating humans than bits
[19:20] <jrwren> wow.
[19:20] <jrwren> that is SOOOooo @1990sLinuxUser
[19:22] <Wolfger> what can I say? I was a Linux user in the 1990's
[19:23] <Wolfger> I also don't see people lining up outside stores to get their hands on cool new tech without a little social manipulation.
[19:24] <jrwren> so was I
[19:24] <jrwren> i'm not convinced there is any Apple genius :)
[19:25] <Wolfger> They make too much money for there to not be some sort of genius there
[19:25] <jrwren> oh? its all about money?
[19:25] <jrwren> because Exxon Mobile makes a lot of money. I'd not call it genius
[19:25] <snap-l> ho boy
[19:25] <Wolfger> that tends to be the major motivator in our society
[19:26] <jrwren> !define genius
[19:26] <snap-l>   Genius \Gen"ius\, n.; pl. E. {Geniuses}; in sense 1, L. {Genii}.
[19:26] <snap-l>      [L. genius, prop., the superior or divine nature which is
[19:26] <snap-l>      innate in everything, the spirit, the tutelar deity or genius
[19:26] <snap-l>      of a person or place, taste, talent, genius, from genere,
[19:26] <snap-l>      gignere, to beget, bring forth. See {Gender}, and cf.
[19:26] <Wolfger> and when you manage to make a lot of it without resorting to winning the lottery, yeah, that took some smarts, because as much as you want to make it, somebody else wants to stop you from making it. Multiple somebodies, really
[19:26] <snap-l>      {Engine}.]
[19:26] <snap-l>      1. A good or evil spirit, or demon, supposed by the ancients
[19:26] <snap-l>         to preside over a man's destiny in life; a tutelary deity;
[19:26] <snap-l>         a supernatural being; a spirit, good or bad. Cf. {Jinnee}.
[19:27] <snap-l> So we all have a little genius in each of us
[19:27] <_stink_> sounds like something you'd hear in kindergarten.
[19:27] <snap-l> So, stop rubbing that lamp and kindly get back to work. :)
[19:29] <Wolfger> 5
[19:29] <Wolfger> plural usually geniuses a : a single strongly marked capacity or aptitude <had a genius for getting along with boys — Mary Ross> b : extraordinary intellectual power especially as manifested in creative activity c : a person endowed with transcendent mental superiority; especially : a person with a very high IQ
[19:30] <Wolfger> That is the definition from Merriam-Webster most appropriate to what I am talking about
[19:30] <snap-l> I like mnine better
[19:31] <snap-l> Yours doesn't lend itself to inappropriate rubbing jokes.
[19:31] <Wolfger> stuff it, sinus boy
[19:31] <Wolfger> :-)
[19:31] <snap-l> When I get my hands on some pseudophedrine, I'm so kicking your ass. :)
[19:32] <Wolfger> or as my dad used to say, "go blow it out your nose"
[19:32] <snap-l> Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go shut down the world.
[19:37] <jrwren> you think apple is closed... http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/02/09/building-windows-for-the-arm-processor-architecture.aspx  UGH
[19:43] <snap-l> I wish it wasn't a competition
[19:44] <jrwren> i do.
[19:44] <jrwren> competition is good.
[19:44] <snap-l> competition to be the most closed?
[19:44] <jrwren> no, that is bad.
[19:44] <jrwren> i wish it were open competition
[19:44] <snap-l> It's like having a competition to see who can be the biggest jackass
[19:44] <jrwren> yup
[19:44] <jrwren> but firefox chrome competition has been GREAT for us.
[19:44] <jrwren> OPEN!
[19:45] <snap-l> WEll, some are lamenting that people are writing just for Webkit, and leaving out Firefox
[19:45] <snap-l> Kevin Dangoor shared a piece about that
[19:45] <rick_h> yea, but firefox has their own -moz prefix crap
[19:45] <rick_h> I don't get that gripe at all
[19:46] <rick_h> as a dev I'm the one that has to do -opera-stuff -moz-stuff -webkit-stuff
[19:46] <rick_h> ARRRGG!!!!
[19:48] <brousch> doesn't sass or compass take care of it for you?
[19:48] <rick_h> it *can*
[19:48] <rick_h> but it's not like it's ootb and they're complaining that not enough people use the tools to make things right
[19:49] <rick_h> and their rounded corner example is a crock since wtf cares if there's no rounded corner on firefox. That's not breaking the web
[19:50] <brousch> designers care!
[19:51] <snap-l> As a former square, I care about rounded corners. ;)
[19:52] <jrwren> lol
[19:52] <jrwren> i just drag a Rounded Rectangle Button to the design surface
[19:54] <brousch> to the waht?
[19:54] <snap-l> the cloud, of course
[19:54] <jrwren> :)
[19:55] <jrwren> i was partially lamenting my slavery to the XCode designer.
[19:55] <snap-l> We drag the Rounded Rectangle to the design surface of the cloud.
[19:55] <jrwren> lol
[19:56] <snap-l> Where we can make it magneta.
[19:57] <snap-l> and then we shall telnet to the keyboard and download the printer for great happiness
[20:16] <jrwren> http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/02/tim-berners-lee-patent/
[20:18] <snap-l> Shit, who patented Tim Berners Lee?
[20:18] <snap-l> “Mr. Berners-Lee, why are you here?” asked Doan.
[20:19] <snap-l> "Because I'm here to kick ass and chew bubblegum, and I'm all out of bubblegum"
[20:23] <jrwren> lol
[20:25] <brousch> snap-l: not according to the article
[20:25] <brousch> more like to speak quietly and act shifty
[20:27] <snap-l> Shhhh
[20:28] <snap-l> Tim Berners Lee speaks softly, but with the force of 10 Chuck Norrises
[20:29]  * snap-l thinks about putting up a Tim Berners Lee facts page.
[21:10] <snap-l> http://blog.chromium.org/2012/02/gpu-accelerating-2d-canvas-and-enabling.html <- swoon
[21:14] <jrwren> ms demoed that in ie10 2 yrs ago :p
[21:14] <jrwren> of course, that hasn't shipped.
[21:22] <Blazeix> yeah, it was interesting. the IE10 preview releases smoke chrome and firefox
[21:22] <snap-l> I'm just in love with WebGL
[21:22] <snap-l> and I'd expect IE10 to smoke Chrome and Firefox
[21:22] <Blazeix> played around with three.js?
[21:22] <Blazeix> that's a really impressive little library
[21:22] <snap-l> after all, IE is part of the OS. It probably runs with admin privs. ;)
[21:22] <jrwren> oh no... i'll bet ie10 still isn't out because its NOT smoking htem anymore.
[21:22] <jrwren> they can't get it fast enough
[21:23] <snap-l> Blazeix: No, I haven't.
[21:23] <Blazeix> snap-l: it makes canvas and webgl rendering really easy, it's very fun
[21:24] <snap-l> Oh, purdy.
[21:25] <Blazeix> take a look at http://fuqua.io/misc/hole/
[21:25] <Blazeix> that uses three.js and a third-party physics library
[21:25] <Blazeix> with just a couple lines of code
[21:26] <snap-l> couple? :)
[21:27] <snap-l> But yeah, not nearly as much as I would think there would be
[21:31] <Blazeix> a couple *interesting* lines of code :)
[22:10] <greg-g> hah, I beat snap-l to blocking a spammer from !ubuntumi on identi.ca
[23:06] <snap-l> ;)
[23:17] <tjagoda> snap-l: writing the app now
[23:17] <tjagoda> any protips?
[23:17] <snap-l> Just highlight your OSS involvement
[23:24] <tjagoda> Yay penguicon the resume point
[23:31] <tjagoda> Bam
[23:31] <tjagoda> Application sented
[23:31] <tjagoda> Hopefully I get a reply from a human!