[00:14] <AlanBell> this looks interesting http://www.rnib.org.uk/professionals/webaccessibility/wacblog/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?List=be9c76d3-7ad0-4e03-a1a0-e6f6953b8178&ID=51
[00:16] <ali1234> bit late for me to show up for that
[00:17] <AlanBell> yeah, I only just found out about it, I won't be able to make it
[00:17] <ali1234> i still want to do that minicom hack
[00:17] <AlanBell> it is a bit androidish anyway
[00:18] <ali1234> software minicom on android would be perfect :)
[00:18] <ali1234> either that or a gateway service you can run at home
[00:19] <ali1234> but minicom isn't compatible with standard modems unfortunately
[00:19] <AlanBell> a friend of mine had a machine, don't think they use it any more
[00:19] <ali1234> it's only 300bps or something though, so it should be trivial to handle in software with a softmodem etc
[00:19] <ali1234> surprised nobody has done it
[00:20] <ali1234> well, they have, but i'm surprised nobody made an open source one
[00:20] <AlanBell> yeah, it is a good protocol for text chatting
[00:20] <AlanBell> sends every keystroke rather than every line
[00:21] <ali1234> well, all modems do that
[00:21] <AlanBell> sure, I meant the UI
[00:21] <ali1234> minicom is pretty horrible really, suffers from duplex issues and no upper/lower case
[00:22] <ali1234> so i'd like to either make a jabber to minicom gateway or an android app that lets you dial up a minicom from your phone and talks baudot through software
[00:22] <ali1234> either way the only missing piece is the signal processing
[00:23] <ali1234> and i need a real minicom for that so i can develop it
[00:23] <ali1234> but they are like £99
[00:23] <ali1234> (on ebay)
[00:24] <ali1234> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ultratec-Uniphone-1150-Textphone-/230739036640?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Mobility_Disability_Medical_ET&hash=item35b91e49e0
[00:29] <AlanBell> ali1234: I will ask my friend if it is still lurking in a cupboard somewhere
[00:43] <ali1234> apparently android doesn't let you touch the call audio so that's out
[00:44] <ali1234> but our old friend fabrice bellard has made this: http://bellard.org/linmodem.html
[00:44] <popey> heheh, our old friend
[00:45] <ali1234> ive lost count of the cool projects with his name on
[00:52] <ali1234> no gnuradio packages in ubuntu?
[02:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Chris Oattes] Ambilight Clone - http://www.cjo20.net/blog/?p=42
[02:07] <Seeker`> \o/
[05:52] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: That guy wrote some scary things
[06:21] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: ffmpeg, qemu, qemu-in-js
[06:31] <ali1234> wheee
[06:31] <ali1234> i demodulated FM with gnuradio :)
[06:42] <MartijnVdS> cool
[06:44] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: next up: DAB
[06:44] <ali1234> yeah
[06:45] <ali1234> one of the linuxtv developers has a dvb-t stick with FM and DAB
[06:45] <MartijnVdS> Ooh
[06:45] <ali1234> but it uses a softradio to decode it
[06:45] <ali1234> so, he posted some dumps
[06:45] <MartijnVdS> Apparently there are DAB transmissions in .nl, but about 3 receivers total
[06:45] <ali1234> and i just worked out how to listen to it in gnuradio :)
[06:46] <ali1234> of course it will suck if you need gnuradio to listen to FM
[06:46] <ali1234> it's not even packaged for ubuntu
[06:47] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: It's always useful to be able to though, in case the robots take over
[07:02] <ali1234> just goes to show the damage you can do with wikipedia, open source code, and a bit of determination
[09:16] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:16] <MartijnV1S> \o
[10:30] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:32] <cliftonts> morning guys
[10:32] <brobostigon> morning cliftonts
[10:32] <cliftonts> how's it going?
[10:34] <brobostigon> cliftonts: alittle tired. and you?
[10:34] <cliftonts> well, I had to be up for work at 5:30 so pretty much the same
[10:58] <AlanBell> hi cliftonts
[10:58] <AlanBell> should be up your way tomorrow
[10:58] <cliftonts> AlanBell: Morning, thanks I'm down to my last disc today!
[10:58] <AlanBell> no snow is forecast so should be OK :)
[10:59] <cliftonts> I'm bored with the snow now anyway
[11:04] <gordonjcp> no snow here, wish we had some
[11:05] <cliftonts> well you can have mine! lol
[11:29] <gordonjcp> Is is possible to install Ubuntu on a machine without setting up an initial user, and then have it prompt to set up a user on the second boot?
[11:29] <gordonjcp> or, first boot after installation
[11:29] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: yes
[11:29] <AlanBell> oemconfig-prepare
[11:29] <gordonjcp> cool
[11:29] <cliftonts> yes gordonjcp
[11:30] <gordonjcp> which suggests exactly the use-case I was looking for
[11:30] <zleap> hi, if I want to set up my router to allow ssh to my maincomputer do I set up ssh service as inbound,,
[11:30] <cliftonts> boot the live cd, press some keys when the cryptic keyboard = man logo comes up
[11:30] <cliftonts> then push F4 and select OEM install
[11:30] <gordonjcp> is that in 10.04?
[11:30] <AlanBell> you boot up in OEM mode, as an OEM user, tinker with stuff, add/remove packages whatever, then when you are done, oem-config-prepare and it sets it up for the first real user
[11:30] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: has been there since at least 8.04
[11:30] <gordonjcp> cool
[11:30] <gordonjcp> right, I'll play with that later
[11:31] <AlanBell> cliftonts: that cryptic symbol represents accessibility
[11:31] <cliftonts> it may do but keyboard = man in a bubble doesn't seem very intuitive
[11:31] <AlanBell> and was the most outrageously thoughtless thing ever done
[11:32] <AlanBell> cliftonts: rather accademic anyhow, when it is aimed at blind users
[11:32] <cliftonts> lol
[11:32] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: is that what it is?
[11:32] <AlanBell> hay blind person, when you see this symbol on screen with no audio cue, press the keyboard /o\
[11:32] <gordonjcp> I have trouble distinguishing symbols at the best of times
[11:33] <AlanBell> http://projects.gnome.org/accessibility/
[11:33] <AlanBell> http://www.apple.com/accessibility/
[11:34] <AlanBell> those are the only two places I am aware of that you might see that symbol and be expected to know it means accessibility
[11:34] <gordonjcp> I didn't think it meant accessibility tbh
[11:35] <gordonjcp> I thought it looked like the guy off the cover of the Frankie Goes To Hollywood - "Two Tribes" 12-inch single, eating a waffle
[11:35] <AlanBell> neither did I, so I drew this one https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/HeaderMain?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=accessibilityteam.png
[11:35] <gordonjcp> now it's explained to me I can see it looks like a guy in a circle standing beside a giant keyboard
[11:36] <AlanBell> anyhow, now to get the audio installer you wait for the drums at the start of ubiquity and hit ctrl+s
[11:36] <gordonjcp> it's a man in a wheeled coffee cup doing a stoppie
[11:36] <AlanBell> hmm, there was that call for a new sound theme
[11:36] <AlanBell> best check they still have sounds in the important places
[11:37] <daubers> Morning
[11:40] <cliftonts> well, nothing's ever perfect. Right?
[11:42] <AlanBell> cliftonts: yeah, just annoying when things go backward
[11:42] <AlanBell> just left a comment on the design team blog about the sounds that must not be lost
[11:44] <AlanBell> the design team have a habbit of changing things that were always done a particular way for a *reason*. Change is good, but you have to understand what you are breaking.
[11:44] <cliftonts> well, I have faith it'll all work out anyway.
[11:57] <jacobw> morning
[11:58] <jacobw> (in before noon)
[12:00] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/837679/ not many bugs left
[12:01] <AlanBell> if you have unity you could put that in something like quicklists.py and run it with python
[12:01] <AlanBell> then right click launcher items to see and navigate to windows
[12:01] <AlanBell> bit broken with gimp, but generally works
[12:03] <AlanBell> bit broken if you close an application altogether and restart it in fact
[12:36] <gord> hrm, you would of thought that balancing a router on a radiator would cause it to overheat, but apparently not. woo
[12:40] <gord> AlanBell, it wants a timestamp because X uses timestamps to decide which action to take in case of conflicts (two things tell it to do two different things, newest timestamp wins)
[12:52] <AlanBell> ah, ok
[13:33] <popey> Morning all from Surrey LUG
[13:34] <hamitron> why just people from there? ;)
[13:34] <christel> morning popey
[13:35] <AlanBell> o/ popey and the luggers
[13:35] <gordonjcp> popey: morning
[13:36] <Seeker`> hey hey
[13:38] <directhex> popey, surrey is in a different time zone, at least 2 hours before GMT?
[13:39] <AlanBell> all time is relative, lunchtime doubly so
[13:40] <AlanBell> time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so, to quote more accurately
[13:41] <brobostigon> hhgttg. :)
[13:41] <brobostigon> ford prefect.
[13:41] <popey> most people have gone to the pub
[13:41] <popey> i have no salted peanuts
[13:42]  * Seeker` salts popeys nuts?
[13:55] <penguin42> AlanBell: So I guess your chickens are out of luck for future releases of Kubuntu then
[13:56] <AlanBell> hmm?
[13:56] <penguin42> AlanBell: Canonical dropped funding for Kubuntu
[13:56] <AlanBell> oh, interesting, I guess no pressed kubuntu CDs after 12.04
[13:56] <AlanBell> possibly
[13:57] <AlanBell> was that bit actually announced?
[13:57] <penguin42> I haven't actually seen an announcment
[13:58] <BigRedS> I guessed it'd be announced after 12.04 is released
[13:58]  * AlanBell asks in #kubuntu
[14:00] <hamitron> everything I move to try seems to die or break.... testing KDE atm ;)
[14:00]  * penguin42 isn't actually too bothered about the distro so much as the packages; if the KDE packages are OK I'm happy
[14:00] <hamitron> maybe I should try my "luck" on MS or Apple
[14:00] <hamitron> ;)
[14:01] <BigRedS> penguin42: I can't see it getting any worse than xfce or lxde
[14:01] <BigRedS> (though I don't know what state theyr'e in compared to KDE)
[14:02] <hamitron> what is performance of Kubuntu like?
[14:04] <penguin42> hamitron: Fine here on an AMD hd4350 (open drivers) on an i7
[14:05] <penguin42> BigRedS: To some degree that's my worry
[14:05] <hamitron> I think my main wory is memory
[14:05] <hamitron> worry*
[14:05] <AlanBell> how much do you have?
[14:05] <penguin42> hamitron: I think there is a low resource setup - not tried it
[14:05] <hamitron> and the "feel"
[14:05] <AlanBell> memory is cheap
[14:05] <hamitron> mobo only accepts 2GB
[14:06] <AlanBell> that is OK for general use
[14:06] <hamitron> but I just find *buntu sluggish sometimes
[14:06] <hamitron> starts up loads faster than a lot of stuff, but then never feels snappy
[14:08] <AlanBell> the chickens may have to switch to Ubuntu server in the 12.10 cycle
[14:08] <hamitron> I will ofc try unity before deciding to move from the default supported UI
[14:09] <hamitron> chickens? :|
[14:09] <AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/05/28/ubuntu-uk-loco-cds/
[14:12] <hamitron> :))
[14:12] <hamitron> I better get stuff sorted before the match starts
[14:12] <hamitron> bbl o/
[14:15] <ali1234> regarding the man = keyboard, i always though it meant "hey you, press a key"
[14:18] <popey> ali1234: are you sat next to me?
[14:19] <popey> bloke next to me just asked what person = keyboard means
[14:20] <ali1234> and i was reading about baader-meinhof phenomenon last night. true story
[14:20]  * penguin42 wonders if the gov just use e-petitions as a way of finding evil nasty opinionated people to keep an eye on
[14:20] <AlanBell> it is cryptic to those in the know
[14:20] <ali1234> but no, i was just reading the scroll back from this morning
[14:21] <popey> erm
[14:22] <popey> ubuntu 12.04 only installs if the host supports pae?
[14:22] <popey> this seems somewhat um.. odd
[14:22] <AlanBell> that will be the 32 bit CD
[14:22] <popey> got a chap here with an old but usable thinkpad which doesn't have / support pae
[14:22] <popey> yes
[14:22] <popey> should I use the 64-bit cd? (no idea if the cpu supports 64-bit)
[14:22] <AlanBell> no pae and no 64 bit
[14:22] <popey> sorry i cant parse that
[14:23] <MartijnVdS> How much RAM does he have?
[14:23] <popey> MartijnVdS: does it matter?
[14:23] <popey> 1.5GB
[14:23] <MartijnVdS> popey: PAE is only used for addressing >4GB of RAM
[14:23] <popey> sure
[14:23] <popey> but i cant even boot the install cd
[14:23] <AlanBell> I would try 64bit if it will do that
[14:24] <popey> its a pentium M class cpu, thinkpad x40
[14:24] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: I think there have been efforts to standardise on using the PAE kernel even for smaller machines just to avoid having to test two kernel sets
[14:24] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: ah, sure. But then the kernel should degrade gracefully
[14:24] <penguin42> nod
[14:25] <MartijnVdS> there's nothing in the Technical Overview (release notes)
[14:25] <penguin42> fun: http://www.bmreports.com/bsp/bsw.php - near to the edges of margin on the UK electricity grid for this evening - fortunately these type of warnings are rare
[14:26] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: empty page with to "Loading, please wait" ?
[14:26] <MartijnVdS> two
[14:26] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: On Chrome? It doesn't like chrome
[14:27] <MartijnVdS> chrome, yes
[14:27] <MartijnVdS> what am I looking at?
[14:28] <MartijnVdS> A prediction that not enough power will be available?
[14:29] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: The top one (most recent) is that there is enough but it's too close to the edge for what they like
[14:30] <MartijnVdS> Next is tea/kettle rationing? ;)
[14:30] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: The one issued earlier at 10:24 was heavier saying that 'Demand control imminent' which I think is when they say to large industrial consumers to turn off
[14:30] <MartijnVdS> I love how it's that public
[14:30] <popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-November/034399.html
[14:30] <MartijnVdS> You won't see that in .nl
[14:30] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Although that's the kind of large industrial users who strike a bargain price on the basis they might get told that
[14:31] <popey> the discussion about non-pae
[14:31] <ali1234> so what CPU is it that is not working?
[14:31] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: http://www.bmreports.com/bsp/bsp_home.htm  has a lot more stats - if you look there is a graph of our flow to/from you on our interconnect and there is also wind production predictions
[14:31] <ali1234> oh, nvm, pentium M
[14:32] <ali1234> yeah, that's... old
[14:32] <penguin42> an M isn't *that* old - and there is quite a range of M's
[14:33] <penguin42> popey: What speed M is it you have?
[14:34] <popey> 1.6GHz
[14:34] <popey> it's a perfectly acceptable laptop by the look of it
[14:34] <popey> not some manky old crap
[14:34] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: I think the combination here is that the prediction is we'll have low wind this evening, and we're mostly warning on coal today (reserving gas because of the shortages at the moment?) and if we're low on wind it's likely that .nl may be as well so we won't be able to get from you this evening
[14:34] <penguin42> popey: So that thing you linked to said ~400MHz Pentium M didn't have PAE - but a 1.6GHz is *much* newer
[14:35] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: Time to fire up the ol' nukes! ;)
[14:36] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Well those graphs show we do have the nukes on full
[14:36] <gordonjcp> clearly we need more nuclear plants with modern designs
[14:37] <penguin42> gordonjcp: Although I don't like nukes, I do agree they're the only current solution
[14:37] <gordonjcp> what's not to like?
[14:37] <gordonjcp> they're compact, clean and efficient
[14:37] <penguin42> gordonjcp: Very very occasionally they go very wrong
[14:37] <gordonjcp> okay, they're expensive to build but they have a long service life
[14:37] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Or efficient links to France, they have lots of nukes :)
[14:38] <gordonjcp> penguin42: that's not a big deal
[14:38] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Well yes we have a 2GW link to France, and you can see some of the time today we were selling them power
[14:38] <penguin42> gordonjcp: No? I'd say that at the moment I'd agree I'd prefer the risk to the lights going out
[14:38] <penguin42> gordonjcp: But the guys in Japan might disagree at the moment
[14:39] <popey> bug 930447
[14:39] <gordonjcp> penguin42: the real problem is that the vast majority of nuclear reactors in the world date from the same era as split-windscreen Morris Minors
[14:39] <zleap> hello
[14:40] <zleap-lugmeet> hello
[14:40] <penguin42> gordonjcp: True, but you're always going to find things that you could have done better in a design compared to 30 years ago, so whatever we build now is going to look crazy in 30 years time
[14:41] <gordonjcp> penguin42: right, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't scrap the existing reactors and build new ones
[14:41] <penguin42> gordonjcp: Agreed, and we really need to start doing that _now_ (actually years ago)
[14:42] <gordonjcp> yup
[14:49] <AlanBell> popey: so we have http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/linux-image-3.2.0-15-generic but it is impossible to get to it right?
[14:50] <AlanBell> popey: maybe put the hdd in a more modern CPU computer, install it and then install linux-image-generic, then put it back in the old one
[14:50] <popey> hehe
[14:50] <popey> the hdd is an ide ssd
[14:50] <popey> so yeah, thats possible
[14:50] <head_victim> Apparently the mini iso still works to install from I'm told.
[14:50] <AlanBell> usb HDD cradle?
[14:50] <popey> ahhh!
[14:51] <penguin42> popey: So it looks like the age of the PentiumM's affected was just wrong in the original thread
[14:51]  * popey will fiddle, thanks for the suggestions
[14:59] <danfish> afternoon
[14:59]  * danfish is thinking of getting an amd fusion laptop
[15:00] <danfish> anyone here running ubuntu on one and if so all good?
[15:03] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: Found the Dutch electicity net news feed :) http://www.tennet.org/bedrijfsvoering/OperationeleBerichtgeving.aspx
[15:04] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: but it's more "market" news
[15:06] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Ah it does have some of the data; http://www.tennet.org/english/bsmailfax/20120211_084905_Extra_biedingen_en_mogelijke_inzet_noodvermogen.html    seems to be the equivalent warning
[15:07] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: Yes
[15:25] <SuperEngineer> o/
[15:28] <AlanBell> really not impressed by the Unity API documentation
[15:30] <SuperEngineer> I recommend a listen to first few seconds of lastest Linux Outlaws  podcast  - a good reminder to us all courtesy of Jean Luke Pichard http://feeds.feedburner.com/linuxoutlaws-ogg
[15:31] <SuperEngineer> [could actually be a Ubuntu moto?
[15:51]  * SuperEngineer avoids temptation to add political comment to end of that one ;)
[15:52]  * BigRedS imagines Shuttleworth on a purple MX bike
[16:08] <OmNomDePlume> I'm watching the Everton - Chelsea game
[16:08] <OmNomDePlume> Is David Luiz playing as a centre-back or an attacking midfielder?!
[16:09] <danfish> OmNomDePlume: I think he's wicket keeper :P
[16:10] <OmNomDePlume> Had no idea Brazil had a cricket team.
[17:08] <MartijnVdS> neither did they
[17:11] <jacobw> evening
[17:11] <danfish> dutchland has a cricket team
[17:11] <jacobw> dutchland?
[17:11] <BigRedS> yeah, the land of the dutch
[17:11] <jacobw> obviously
[17:12] <danfish> talking of dutch, haven't heard from dutchie here for a while
[17:12] <jacobw> this is curious
[17:12] <danfish> must be enjoying the student life too much
[17:12] <jacobw> these students :p
[17:17] <danfish> jacobw: the internets didn't exist when I was a studcent :(
[17:18] <danfish> I'm not sure we had ecletricity
[17:19] <jacobw> lol
[17:27] <AlanBell> if you run this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/sanity.py in python you should get reasonably functional window quicklists
[17:28] <AlanBell> so right click on running things in the unity launcher bar and you see all the relevant window titles, click to focus on them
[17:39] <dutchie> i'm still here!
[17:39] <dutchie> student life is busy
[17:39] <AlanBell> :)
[17:55] <AlanBell> I am just opening up lots of windows and then going to *the one I want to*, it is great
[17:58] <danfish> dutchie: hope you are having fun at oxford poly ;)
[18:01]  * danfish is upgrading to 12.04 and will check out AlanBell's script later
[18:02] <popey> ooooh AlanBell
[18:02] <popey> thats really good
[18:03] <AlanBell> :)
[18:03] <dutchie> danfish: oi
[18:04] <AlanBell> popey: it deals with adding and removing and renaming windows, and applications closing and re-opening, I can't make it go wrong now
[18:04] <dutchie> dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: Method "RunningApplicationsDesktopFiles" with signature "" on interface "org.ayatana.bamf.matcher" doesn't exist
[18:04] <AlanBell> I dunno if there is a design team edict that window quicklists are verboten
[18:04] <popey> AlanBell: can you make it do tabs ?
[18:04] <dutchie> AlanBell: are you on precise?
[18:05] <AlanBell> dutchie: yes, but it should work on older unity I expect
[18:05] <AlanBell> popey: not with the bamf api, that just sees windows. It renames based on what tab you are in mostly
[18:05] <dutchie> apparently not
[18:06] <AlanBell> dutchie: ok :(
[18:06] <dutchie> AlanBell: see exception above
[18:06] <dutchie> is there anything i might need to install?
[18:06]  * danfish got dutchie's error on another 12.10 laptop
[18:06] <AlanBell> ah, must be a new method
[18:07] <oimon1> guys, how can i disable the functionality in unity where the buttons get put on the panel when maximised? i've disabled global menu, but my buttons are on the right, so hidden buttons on the left is not working for me
[18:07] <AlanBell> there might be a python dependency of some kind
[18:07] <czajkowski> evening
[18:08] <danfish> s/12.10/11.10
[18:09] <danfish> czajkowski: looking forwrards to the rubgy?
[18:09] <dutchie> 18:08:29 < danfish> s/12.10/11.10
[18:09] <dutchie> um
[18:09] <dutchie> https://code.launchpad.net/~mhr3/bamf/non-chatty-signals/+merge/88462 < looks like that introduced it
[18:09] <czajkowski> danfish: always
[18:10] <dutchie> and was approved ~3 weeks ago
[18:10] <dutchie> so precise only
[18:10] <danfish> ah, will wait until upgrade finished
[18:11] <danfish> czajkowski: will probably the deciding game of the tournament
[18:12] <czajkowski> danfish: annoying match at 8pm
[18:13] <czajkowski> danfish: how are england v italy doing ?
[18:15] <danfish> czajkowski: englandwon by 4pts....just
[18:16] <oimon1> so, anyone know how to disable the "maximus" functionality in unity?:(
[18:17] <danfish> oimon1: not sure butdoes ccsm have the option?
[18:18] <diplo> evening all
[18:18] <oimon1> danfish: can't see anything, there might be a hidden gconftool function
[18:20] <oimon1> keep looking at ways that i can make unity usable for me, but right now it doesn't rally look like unity at all, so i might as well use xfce or something (although i like and use desktop zoom in compiz a lot)
[18:21]  * danfish is using xfce on my lappie at the mo as it's  a  rubbish lap
[18:36] <zleap> hello
[18:50] <BigRedS> hello!
[18:54] <popey> pip pip
[18:54] <MartijnVdS> \o
[18:59] <czajkowski> danfish: wow that was close
[19:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] A man, a cupcake, a photobooth - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/02/11/a-man-a-cupcake-a-photobooth/
[19:11] <czajkowski> anyone else using the ambiance theme?
[19:22] <zleap> czajkowski, think so
[19:22] <zleap> i find the theme seems to change at random for no aparant reason
[19:23] <czajkowski> theme hasn't changed
[19:23] <czajkowski> just trying to see things using the theme has become difficult
[19:25] <zleap> hmm
[19:25] <zleap> it seems fine here
[19:27] <zleap> hmm, checking this out got distracted by the removeable media settings,  it does not seem to list usb flash drives
[19:27] <czajkowski> clickong on more networks pops out a small window which wont show up on screen capure but can barely be seen http://twitpic.com/8ikzgu/full
[19:27] <czajkowski> reading pdfs changing the size on menu is to dark to read
[19:28] <zleap> what am i looking for there,  the console window looks clear as does the menu
[19:29] <czajkowski> the drop down menu for wifi networks
[19:30] <zleap> wired networks are not available then
[19:30] <czajkowski> I click on more networks
[19:31] <czajkowski> and a small box pops out but I cant see whats i it
[19:31] <zleap> ah,  i am on wired so can't check that out here
[19:32] <czajkowski> np
[19:32] <zleap> do you get the same issue in 12.04 b2 ?>
[19:33] <zleap> so is this dodge window thing refering to the side bar hiding,  its changing to always visible or something
[19:34] <AlanBell> yes, and yes
[19:34] <zleap> ok
[19:34] <czajkowski> AlanBell: evenimn
[19:34] <zleap> that may be handy as i keep getting the side bar pop up when i try and close apps
[19:34] <AlanBell> czajkowski: next time I am in London I will see what the more networks thing does czajkowski
[19:34] <zleap> i assume then when apps go full screen,  they will stop at the side bar,
[19:35] <AlanBell> zleap: they do
[19:35] <zleap> ok
[19:35] <zleap> thats better too
[19:35] <AlanBell> and there is a launcher on every monitor now
[19:35] <zleap> nice
[19:35] <AlanBell> dunno where gord is putting his hud
[19:36] <zleap> so will we still have menus
[19:36] <popey> czajkowski: i get that more networks issue
[19:36] <AlanBell> I guess it pops out of the launcher on the monitor containing the focussed application
[19:36] <ali1234> for now
[19:36] <zleap> ok
[19:36] <zleap> so what happens if people can't type very well but can use a mouse
[19:36] <ali1234> what happens if we are using a program that uses meta and alt?
[19:36] <AlanBell> there will be menus
[19:37] <zleap> ah
[19:37] <zleap> so menus are not going fully
[19:37] <zleap> some articles / comments seem to imply that
[19:37] <AlanBell> ali1234: if you want to to alt+prtscr you are out of luck because gord grabbed your alt key
[19:37] <AlanBell> zleap: yeah, they are wrong
[19:37] <czajkowski> popey: oh good not just me :)
[19:37] <ali1234> AlanBell: yeah. normally i would just remap it to meta but unity steals that too
[19:38] <zleap> great, cos alt-printscreen is for sysrq kernel hacking stuff,   which is handy
[19:38] <popey> http://ubuntuone.com/25nKPCS3rAJAM4qFEIRWyV
[19:38] <ali1234> over-design again
[19:38] <AlanBell> yeah, I stop unity stealing super because I use super+mousewheel for enhanced zoom
[19:38] <ali1234> yeah
[19:38] <ali1234> popey: someone isn't a unity fan?
[19:38] <AlanBell> and I turn off the shortcut overlay too
[19:39] <AlanBell> popey: I think you need to plug that in
[19:39] <zleap> oh on mini features like this on network connection information,  can we have a way to save that info to a file
[19:40] <zleap> is shortcut overlay 12.04 only ?
[19:40] <AlanBell> alt-printscreen is for screenshot of the current window
[19:40] <ali1234> it's the old story: application designers assume you will only use their application and no others, so they design it to use as much resources/conflicting keyboard shortcuts/etc as possible. and it might work well if they are right and you never use anything else
[19:40] <zleap> print screen is a pain i keep accidentally hitting it
[19:41] <popey> AlanBell: it just died when i was getting the power lead ☺
[19:41] <ali1234> doesn't really make much sense when the application in question is specifically supposed to be used to manage other applications
[19:41] <AlanBell> ali1234: http://trendsupdates.com/openoffice-mouse-a-computer-mouse-with-18-buttons-and-a-joystick/
[19:42] <AlanBell> that is the alternative to key binding clashes
[19:42] <popey> rebooted and that issue has gone away
[19:42] <ali1234> the alternative to key binding clashes is for window managers not to use key bindings
[19:42] <ali1234> instead, they should just use mouse input
[19:43] <AlanBell> nah
[19:44] <zleap> ali1234, or use the command line
[19:44] <AlanBell> everything should be keyboard navigable, and should be accessible to orca
[19:44] <zleap> like emacs etc
[19:44] <AlanBell> however some of the unity keybinding choices are a bit suspect
[19:44] <ali1234> any time i have to look away from the screen and at the keyboard it slows me down
[19:45] <ali1234> it is much more efficient to launch programs with the mouse rather than look down at the keyboard to press meta-1 to open a nautilus or whatever
[19:45] <zleap> the speccy hasd several commands on each key, with several key bindings to call up different basic commands
[19:45] <AlanBell> sure
[19:45] <ali1234> if you think using the keyboard for this is faster you must have extremely poor mouse skills
[19:45] <AlanBell> no, I don't
[19:45] <ali1234> lots of people do though
[19:45] <AlanBell> I think it should be *possible* to do everything from the keyboard
[19:45] <ali1234> i agree
[19:46] <ali1234> it should not be the recommended and prefered way to do it  though
[19:46] <zleap> all alt-s is quicker when saving
[19:46] <zleap> well
[19:46] <popey> ctrl+s surely
[19:46] <ali1234> every person who likes unity, every single one, will talk about how its so great to reveal the launcher with meta or switch to an application with meta-1,2,3
[19:46] <zleap> yeah
[19:46] <zleap> sorry
[19:47] <zleap> what is meta ?
[19:47] <ali1234> you mean ctrl-o enter
[19:47] <AlanBell> zleap: super
[19:47] <zleap> ah
[19:47] <zleap> thanks
[19:47] <ali1234> no wait, you mean ctrl-x ctrl-s
[19:47] <BigRedS> I love how hard everyone tries to not call it the windows key :)
[19:47] <ali1234> no wait, you mean esc:w
[19:47] <zleap> :w
[19:47] <popey> you mean alt, save, enter
[19:48] <ali1234> popey: that won't work in *any* of the programs i have just mentions, but thanks for playing
[19:48] <AlanBell> alt, "sav" enter
[19:48] <popey> hud?
[19:48] <ali1234> hud works with terminal programs?
[19:48] <popey> oh i see
[19:48] <ali1234> nano, emacs, vi?
[19:48] <ali1234> yeah, that's what i thought
[19:48] <zleap> cool
[19:48] <AlanBell> if you do alt *save* enter it will probably just change the font size
[19:48] <popey> real people use terminals huh?
[19:48] <BigRedS> wait, you want mouse commands to work in vi?
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> popey: are you saying people who use terminals aren't real?
[19:49] <zleap> they work in mc i think
[19:49] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: sounds about right to me
[19:49] <popey> +1
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> :(
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> I'm not imaginary!
[19:49] <AlanBell> no, just virtual
[19:50] <ali1234> BigRedS: no, the point i am trying to make is that the keyboard is not always the best way, particularly for the inexperienced user
[19:50] <AlanBell> anyhow, switching windows is done by right clicking the icon in the launcher and selecting the window title from the quicklist, all mousy goodness
[19:51] <BigRedS> ali1234: Ah. I'm not one of those people who thinks everything need be good for the inexperienced user, and I also dislike having to find my mouse :)
[19:51] <ali1234> BigRedS: i dislike having to find the keeeeeeyboard. who is to say which of us is "right?"
[19:51] <BigRedS> ali1234: neither
[19:51] <BigRedS> I think both should be accomodated for
[19:52] <ali1234> mouse users absolutely are not being accomodated for with unity
[19:52] <BigRedS> nor are keyboard users
[19:52] <ali1234> the only thing we hear is "but the keyboard is so much better"
[19:52] <zleap> so will the unity menu config uration tool be added to the settings / control panel app so its easy to find
[19:52] <BigRedS> I'm sure we talked about this the other day :)
[19:53] <ali1234> yeah
[19:53] <AlanBell> BigRedS: that reminds me, I was going to do a little tweak to the "show mouse" plugin
[19:55] <ali1234> unity has a lot more going to it for keyboard users, like hud, shortcuts for everything, programs are launched by typing the name
[19:55] <BigRedS> the *wrong* program is launched by typing the name
[19:55] <ali1234> if the computer has no keyboard finding programs will take ages
[19:58] <AlanBell> ali1234: I did try to fix that, might try again
[19:58] <AlanBell> BigRedS: yeah, unity caters well for bad typists
[19:58] <BigRedS> yeah, i suppose it's just that the keyboard only ways seem to be a lot longer and involve more keypresses than they should
[20:03] <penguin42> not sure
[20:04] <ali1234> i think i said this before but unity should come with one of those cardboard cut out keyboard overlays like you used to get with flight sim games
[20:04] <penguin42> ali1234: If you just hold menu down it pops one up
[20:04] <ali1234> that's not helpful
[20:04] <ali1234> i need to look at the keyboard
[20:04] <ali1234> i can't see that when i'm looking at the keyboard
[20:04] <AlanBell> it is *bad*
[20:04] <czajkowski> DJones: indeed! what did they expect from a 8pm kick off
[20:04] <AlanBell> it isn't keyboard focussable so you can't read it with orca at all
[20:04] <AlanBell> it is completely broken by design
[20:05] <ali1234> i look at that screen and think "oh, that's nice" and then continue doing everything the slow way with the mouse
[20:06] <jacobw> broken or defectve? :p
[20:06] <ali1234> i actually learned a lot about unity by doing the checkbox test
[20:07] <jacobw> using the mouse is always slow
[20:07] <ali1234> especially the alt-tab and friends stuff
[20:07] <jacobw> vimperator ftw
[20:07] <ali1234> using the mouse is only slow when software is badly designed
[20:08] <ali1234> when i'm using the mouse i don't get interrupted by having to focus on the keyboard instead of the monitor
[20:08] <ali1234> that interrupts my train of thought
[20:09] <jacobw> you don't need to look at keyboard to use it
[20:10] <ali1234> yes i do
[20:12] <DJones> czajkowski: in rugby league, the Catalan v Hull game due to be played this evening was called off this morning
[20:15] <diplo> AlanBell, you still about ?
[20:15] <AlanBell> yah
[20:15] <diplo> I know it's a saturday but can I ask you a Libertus Q ?
[20:16] <AlanBell> sure
[20:16]  * AlanBell starts the stopwatch and prepares invoice
[20:16] <diplo> I was chatting to you and the other alan about OpenERP the other
[20:16] <diplo> day
[20:16] <AlanBell> yup, how did you get on with installing it?
[20:17] <diplo> I've mentioned it and showed the guys who are starting the business the website and still not got 6.1rc going ( about to try again now )
[20:17] <diplo> They are interested
[20:17] <diplo> Two questions, how do you go about quoting for support if they wanted some offical support
[20:17] <AlanBell> that is sold through official partners (yay, we can help you with that)
[20:18] <diplo> And secondly, if they wanted to see it in action do you have any customers who may let them visit site and see it in action ?
[20:18] <AlanBell> pricing structure is here http://www.openerp.com/catalog/146
[20:18] <AlanBell> maybe, where are they geographically?
[20:18] <diplo> Wiltshire
[20:18] <diplo> Near Bath
[20:20] <AlanBell> I can ask around the other partners and see if they have any good examples over that way
[20:20] <diplo> That would be great thanks
[20:20] <AlanBell> the one we are putting in in portsmouth will be good to look at in a few months time, but it is only just going in really
[20:20] <diplo> Also with your installs of libre software, do you ever do Asterix installs
[20:21] <AlanBell> funny you should ask :)
[20:21] <diplo> Well they are only pricing up and getting a business thingy for the bank at the mo, I'm just giving them some options including the company I work for
[20:21] <AlanBell> the portsmouth bunch are into telephone systems and asked about asterisk integration
[20:21] <diplo> Between you and theopensourcer I've heard about openerp a fair bit
[20:21] <diplo> :)
[20:22] <AlanBell> we use asterisk internally, but it isn't linked to our openerp yet, and we don't really sell ourselves as asterisk engineers
[20:22] <diplo> And I'm also trying to help friends out with some initial costs, instead of paying a few k to BT for a phone system
[20:22] <AlanBell> you end up competing in a whole different marketplace if you are a telephony person
[20:23] <diplo> I used to admin our Nortel CS1000 in my last job, always wanted to try Asterix, dubious if i can set it up but willing to give it a go
[20:23] <AlanBell> the main cost is handsets, a proprietary PBX is not that expensive
[20:23] <diplo> Installation etc included it is though from memory ?
[20:23] <AlanBell> asterisk only really wins when you do interesting things with it
[20:23] <diplo> They are only going to be a 2 man + maybe a driver company
[20:24] <AlanBell> in that case, a small efficient fanless asterisk appliance might be good
[20:25] <diplo> I was debating about a microserver doing openerp and Asterix in one ?
[20:25] <AlanBell> http://www.ipchitchat.co.uk/index.php/Atcom-Asterisk-Appliances/Atcom-IP-02-Asterisk-Appliance
[20:25] <diplo> See you really are the man to talk to :)
[20:26] <diplo> Always wanted to do some Opensource stuff for business but my last company used to go proprietary all the way
[20:26] <AlanBell> you could run asterisk and openerp on the same box
[20:26] <diplo> Blimey, at that price that really isn't that bad at all
[20:28] <AlanBell> yeah, dunno how many channels it does, but plenty for a small office I should think
[20:28] <diplo> No handler found. is the issue I'm getting with openerp atm
[20:28] <diplo> Just about to start looking at the cause now
[20:29] <AlanBell> there is an openerp module for managing asterisk
[20:29] <diplo> ooh
[20:29] <diplo> I'm getting more and more sold :)
[20:29] <AlanBell> I am not sure how good it is, some modules are of variable quality
[20:29] <diplo> I'm getting some data from them soon, see if i can get them set up to play with it
[20:30] <diplo> Payed for ? Or part of community ?
[20:30] <diplo> paid*
[20:30] <AlanBell> all the modules are free AGPL
[20:30]  * jacobw googles openerp
[20:30] <jacobw> anything that makes asterisk easier to manage interests me
[20:30] <AlanBell> you can pay extra to have an exemption from the AGPL if you want private modules for your implementation
[20:32]  * AlanBell creates a database to install the asterisk module in
[20:33] <diplo> Do you run your Asterix on one of those type boxes or just on a general server ?
[20:33] <diplo> Was wondering how well i HP Microserver would handle it tbh
[20:34]  * jacobw runs asterisk in a VM
[20:36] <AlanBell> diplo: on a ropey old downclocked desktop in theopensourcerer's house
[20:36] <AlanBell> I think it was downclocked to 700Mhz to run fanless
[20:36] <AlanBell> http://apps.openerp.com/?filter={%22order_by%22%3A+%22click_counter+desc%22}&text_search=asterisk
[20:36] <diplo> Ta, just llooking
[20:38] <diplo> I really like the looks of that, click2dial etc and using openerp's partner db to display on phones customer name
[20:40] <AlanBell> well there is a bug in the click2dial stuff, it won't install cleanly
[20:41] <diplo> Seems a great project to get involved in if i can get it to do what i want though
[20:41] <diplo> Something to do of evenings
[20:45] <diplo> Hmm, still failing on install running python setup.py
[20:45]  * diplo goes through deps again
[20:45] <AlanBell> can you pastebin the output
[20:46] <AlanBell> this click2dial stuff is doing funky things I have not seen before in the xml files for the security groups
[20:46] <diplo> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/146541
[20:46] <diplo> I've done it from just before it failed, first time it failed i'd missed python-ldap
[20:48] <jacobw>  /o\ ldap
[20:50] <diplo> One thing I've never got to work
[20:50] <diplo> And so want to :)
[20:50] <BigRedS> Oh man. The imapsync I've been trying to get going since about 8am has *finallly* started going.
[20:50] <diplo> Want to setup at work
[20:50] <jacobw> i know the feeling
[20:50] <BigRedS> I managed to use ldap quite succesfully against MS AD for various things
[20:50] <jacobw> cn=config is so contrary
[20:50] <BigRedS> never got a server working
[20:51] <jacobw> storing the ldap servers configuration .. in the ldap server
[20:51] <diplo> Want our helpdesk/phonesystem and addressbooks for email all using same system
[20:51] <jacobw> that's almost what i'm trying to do
[20:52] <jacobw> make a single sign on for linux hosts, an mail server and a ticket system as well as provide a unified address book
[20:52] <AlanBell> diplo: hmm, running the setup.py isn't really required normally
[20:53] <diplo> http://www.openerp.com/forum/post98042.html#p98042
[20:53] <diplo> I can't seem to get it to work "No Handler found" and 2 posts ive found so far reference this one
[20:53] <diplo> That says to do that
[20:53] <diplo> :P
[20:53] <diplo> I'm guessing i'm missing a dependancy some where
[20:54] <diplo> Going to go through TheOpenS's tut again and make sure i installed them all
[20:54] <AlanBell> all from the server and web installs
[20:54] <diplo> It starts without errors
[20:54] <diplo> yeah
[20:58] <diplo> All dependancies are there, just added .log file in the openserver.conf and noerrors
[20:58] <diplo> :D
[20:58] <diplo> rah
[20:58] <diplo> It works
[20:58] <AlanBell> yay
[20:58] <diplo> lol, should have tested again before
[20:58] <diplo> one of the python ones missing
[20:59] <diplo> default user ?
[20:59] <AlanBell> there is a superadmin user with just a password set to admin, that one can create databases, each database will have an admin user that you can change the password of
[21:00] <diplo> Think i still have stuff to sort yet :)
[21:00] <diplo> OpenERP Server Error
[21:00] <diplo> Client Traceback (most recent call last):
[21:00] <diplo>   File "/opt/openerp/server/openerp/addons/web/common/http.py", line 176, in dispatch
[21:00] <diplo>     response["result"] = method(controller, self, **self.params)
[21:01] <diplo> saying database not set, guessing that reads from the openserver.conf
[21:01] <AlanBell> is there a "databases" button somewhere
[21:02] <diplo> yeah it's empty
[21:02] <diplo> [options]
[21:02] <diplo> ; This is the password that allows database operations:
[21:02] <diplo> ; admin_passwd = admin
[21:02] <diplo> db_host = False
[21:02] <diplo> db_port = False
[21:02] <diplo> db_user = openerp
[21:02] <AlanBell> not the dropdown, somewhere else
[21:02] <diplo> Just have that in my conf
[21:02] <diplo> ah manage databses
[21:02] <AlanBell> thats the one
[21:02] <AlanBell> create a database there
[21:03] <diplo> ooh doing something
[21:03] <diplo> :)
[21:03] <diplo> Master password had something in it already
[21:04] <diplo> <-- Must read some docs shortly
[21:04] <diplo> :)
[21:04] <diplo> Sorry for troubling you
[21:04] <diplo> Oooh a page has loaded \o/
[21:05]  * diplo tinkers
[21:21]  * AlanBell hacks out all the security from the asterisk module to get it to install
[21:21] <diplo> heh
[21:21] <diplo> I'm just installing modules
[21:21] <diplo> Seeing how it works
[21:21] <diplo> Get some data tomorrow/monday
[21:21] <diplo> So need to understand properly to import
[21:21] <diplo> :)
[21:23]  * penguin42 is trying the cinnamon ppa - it's kind of nice
[21:24]  * popey glares at libwebkitgtk
[21:25]  * jacobw observes libwebkitgtk glaring back at popey
[21:26] <ali1234> use qtwebkit
[21:26] <ali1234> qwebkit sorry
[21:27] <ali1234> it's incredibly easy to use
[21:27] <ali1234> penguin42: which one is cinnamon again?
[21:28] <jacobw> linux mint gnome3
[21:28] <ali1234> i thought that was MGSE
[21:28]  * jacobw googles
[21:29] <ali1234> or does that only refer to the extension plugins
[21:29] <ali1234> gnome 3 + MGSE = cinnamon?
[21:29] <jacobw> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/linux-mints-cinnamon-a-gnome-3x-shell-fork/10056
[21:29] <jacobw> as much as i dislike SJVN, this a good explanation
[21:31] <popey> ali1234: my observation is based around the current build failure of libwebkitgtk in 12.04
[21:31] <ali1234> hah
[21:33] <ali1234> jacobw: the "screenshot" on zdnet is actually a screenshot of the cinnamon website
[21:33] <ali1234> seriously zdnet, wtf?
[21:34] <ali1234> http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/cinnamon.png
[21:34] <jacobw> ha
[21:34] <jacobw> so it is
[21:34] <penguin42> ali1234: I tell you - it feels *fast* on this machine compared to Unity
[21:35] <ali1234> why is that surprising?
[21:35] <jacobw> gnome-shell feels fast compared to unity
[21:35] <ali1234> unity-2d feels fast compared to unity
[21:35] <ali1234> so called "accelerated" desktops
[21:36] <ali1234> actually slower than the 2d version
[21:36] <ali1234> "accelerated" firefox actually slower than the not-accelerated version
[21:36] <Seeker`> popey: gonna build an ambilight?
[21:36] <popey> heh, no, but i thought it was cool
[21:36] <ali1234> i might build one of those :)
[21:36] <popey> i dont have a flat wall behind my telly
[21:37] <ali1234> i bought a load of RGB LEDs
[21:37] <ali1234> no idea what to do with them
[21:37] <Seeker`> Will probably start the software writeup part tomorrow
[21:38] <ali1234> how do you capture the screen without hammering the CPU?
[21:38] <Seeker`> you don't :P
[21:38] <ali1234> how do you figure out what colours to use then?
[21:38] <diplo> How the hell have i got a fly in my front room in this weather?!!?!!?!?!?!?
[21:39] <Seeker`> Well, it takes from 5%-30% of one core of a Q6600 to capture the data
[21:39] <ali1234> that's kind of unacceptable for me :(
[21:39] <Seeker`> and the light server takes another 10% or so
[21:39] <ali1234> :O
[21:39] <ali1234> it only needs to write to the serial port
[21:40] <ali1234> and why is it a separate server?
[21:40] <Seeker`> ali1234: the software is written in two parts; The boblightd which transmits the colours to the arduinos, and clients, which tell the server which colours to display
[21:41] <ali1234> i see
[21:41] <ali1234> fair enough if you want to use a different colour than what's on the screen i suppose
[21:41] <Seeker`> and the server can (in theory) listen to more than one client at once, and displays an average of the two
[21:41] <Seeker`> ali1234: did you see the video in my blog post?
[21:41] <ali1234> no
[21:41] <ali1234> i only skimmed the text and looked at the pictures :)
[21:42] <ali1234> how are you synchronizing the serial data?
[21:42] <popey> the video is great
[21:42] <popey> worth watching
[21:42] <popey> i especially liked watching the titles to futurama, the colour of the light was really well in sync
[21:42] <ali1234> i had no end of problems with sync because arduino doesn't support any kind of flow control
[21:43] <Seeker`> it transmits a stream of serial data, with a specific header to look for to know when a new frame of data is being sent
[21:43] <ali1234> and, escape codes?
[21:43] <Seeker`> popey: actually, it wasn't; there is a slight lag there. Only worked out how to fix it yesterday!
[21:43] <ali1234> or just prevent that header from ever showing up in the data
[21:44] <ali1234> i managed to squeeze about 0.4mbit from the USB arduino virtual serial port
[21:44] <popey> i didnt notice, it looked good to me
[21:44] <Seeker`> ali1234: No, nothing to prevent the header showing up AFAIK
[21:45] <ali1234> you'll need escape codes then
[21:45] <Seeker`> popey: yeah, it was subtle, but it was noticable with rapid scene changes
[21:46] <Seeker`> ali1234: it hasn't proved to be an issue so far (I actually got this working a month ago, and have been using it daily since)
[21:46] <popey> how much has it cost to make all-told?
[21:47] <ali1234> does the video have no sound?
[21:47] <popey> yeah
[21:48] <Seeker`> popey: I probably spent just over £160 on it, but I thought I would need to crimp cable etc. so I bought stuff I didn't actually need
[21:48] <Seeker`> You could do it for £120 not including delivery I think
[21:49] <ali1234> how much if i already had everything except the LED strips?
[21:50] <ali1234> £29.99/m
[21:50] <Seeker`> a 42" TV will just about fit 2m
[21:50] <ali1234> i only have a 24" monitor
[21:51] <Seeker`> depends on how many sides you want to cover. I could imagine that 1m would be sufficient for 3 sides of a 24" monitor.
[21:52] <ali1234> well i suppose i'll want to do the second monitor as well, thinking about it
[21:53] <Seeker`> I think the corners may be a bit tight on a smaller monitor, so you might want to actually cut the strips, which would involve soldering, and possibly crimping connectors, which gets more pricy
[21:55] <Seeker`> you might want to do all 4 sides of a desktop monitor
[21:57] <ali1234> why?
[21:58] <Seeker`> because it is more likely to not be touching the desk. My TV has pretty much no visibility of the wall behind it underneath, whereas desktop monitors do
[22:30] <bigcalm[xoom]> Howdy peeps
[22:31] <zleap> hi
[22:34] <popey> hello bigcalm[xoom]
[22:36] <bigcalm[xoom]> Howdy pope
[22:37] <bigcalm[xoom]> What's happening while I'm in Worcester?
[22:39] <zleap> nite all
[23:04] <brobeans> hey guys. my graphics set isnt detected in 11.10. i've tried updating and searching for driver with no luck. would like to be able to increase the res
[23:04] <brobeans> what options do i have to try and resolve the issue?
[23:06] <BigRedS> brobeans: usually tracking down the appropriate driver for the card
[23:06] <BigRedS> generally googling the name of the card and "ubuntu" helps
[23:06] <BigRedS> IRC's a bit dead at the moment, might be worth trying during the day, and with the name of teh card
[23:07] <brobeans> lol...i did the above, should probs just point that out whenever asking such questions. hence why i came here
[23:07] <brobeans> thanks anyway  :)
[23:07] <BigRedS> yeah, sorry, I'm uselesswith that sort of thing
[23:08] <diplo> brobeans, any idea of make of card ?
[23:09] <brobeans> intel 82Q35 Express
[23:10] <diplo> Hmm most intel software just works, not used that one myself
[23:10] <brobeans> tried changing the settings in term, but i'd rather actually have the appropriate resolution. pc has DVI connector, no VGA, and the screen is VGA. so DVI to VGA adapter, with VGA cable to the screen
[23:10] <brobeans> not entirely sure but maybe thats why it isnt detected correctly?
[23:11] <diplo> Could be, xorg is set via what is sent from the monitor now adays
[23:11] <diplo> can't remember the name of what is sent
[23:11] <diplo> But you can force it in xorg.conf
[23:12] <brobeans> will doing so cause screen lag?
[23:12] <diplo> Wouldn't have thought so, I've never had issues before
[23:13] <brobeans> well i'll give it a go anywho then :) thanks
[23:13] <diplo> Seems you can try setting driver in xorg to intel and force parameters there
[23:15] <brobeans> i shall google a help article
[23:15] <diplo> Just trying to find something myself, my xorg knowledge has dwindled over last few years as i never touch it
[23:16] <o0000o> some f'ing co'k munch tried to remote view me 2 times a few mins ago, how do I access a log of recently attempted incoming VNC connections so I can blacklist this noob hacker's IP?
[23:17] <AlanBell> o0000o: turn off desktop sharing, and stop mapping the port through at the router
[23:17] <diplo> See if there is a vnc log file in /var/log or check syslog matbe ?
[23:17] <diplo> maybe*
[23:18] <diplo> brobeans, From initial googling i can't find posts of vga->dvi connectors causing issues so maybe not that
[23:18] <diplo> Have you tried in #ubuntu , alot busier than here at this time of night
[23:18] <brobeans> ah ok, thanks for looking at that. im just looking at the xorg.conf changes
[23:18] <o0000o> AlanBell: don't worry, I found out about this attempted remote view 'cos I set my desktop sharing to ask for my confirmation.
[23:19] <brobeans> strange that it didnt detect the screen
[23:19] <brobeans> yeah i asked in #ubuntu but no one answered
[23:20] <o0000o> if this noob hacker trys to VNC me again, same thing will happen, I'll click 'DECLINE' on the pop-up window.
[23:20] <diplo> o0000o, it's automated normally... i had vnc open on a box at home and someone tried installing a windows virus
[23:20] <diplo> Best just to block the ports
[23:20] <o0000o> diplo: I find that hard to believe
[23:20] <diplo> they just have a script to check ip ranges for open ports, if they find them they try and push a virus
[23:20] <diplo> Why, it's simple
[23:21] <brobeans> what vnc software are you using?
[23:21] <o0000o> Vinagre
[23:21] <o0000o> comes with Ubuntu usualy
[23:21] <brobeans> surely if the wanted to view your screen, they could just disable user warning?
[23:22] <o0000o> brobeans: lol, how would they do that?
[23:22] <brobeans> that way they could bypass the accept/decline screen
[23:22] <brobeans> well i dont know enough about that particular software, thats why i was being vague
[23:23] <AlanBell> brobeans: not really, that is what the confirmation thing is for
[23:23] <o0000o> look, I can't jus' go firewalling all the ports everywhere!, I need to use the Internet sometimes you know.
[23:24] <jacobw> 80+443
[23:24] <AlanBell> however, I wouldn't really advise having a vnc port open to the internet
[23:24] <jacobw> definately not
[23:24] <o0000o> not even if it requires my confirmation?
[23:24] <AlanBell> o0000o: inbound connections should be whitelisted and mapped specifically where you want them
[23:24] <diplo> o0000o, Block all incoming
[23:24] <diplo> All outgoing are normally left open
[23:24] <diplo> on most routers
[23:25] <AlanBell> a standard domestic router should be set up like that, all closed inbound and all open outbound
[23:25] <o0000o> could someone jus' tall me the port for VNC and samba?, not as safe but a lot easyer.
[23:25] <AlanBell> and then you configure it the way you want it
[23:25] <o0000o> tell*
[23:25] <o0000o> I could jus' block VNC and Samba port
[23:25] <AlanBell> you want windows shares going over the internet?
[23:26] <AlanBell> really, blacklist by default and open by exception
[23:26] <o0000o> what?
[23:26] <AlanBell> and anyhow, are you running a public IP on your computer, is the router not doing NAT for you?
[23:26] <AlanBell> have you set your computer up as a DMZ host on the router or something?
[23:26] <brobeans> unless its someone on your network?
[23:27] <o0000o> Idk!, oneday I enable Samba shares, another day I enabled VNC with my confirmation.
[23:27] <AlanBell> o0000o: are you behind a domestic router?
[23:27] <o0000o> I'm a hardware techie, not a programer damn it!
[23:27] <brobeans> plug in a nice corporate firewall then :)
[23:27] <brobeans> sorry...not useful
[23:28] <AlanBell> oh, you are on a 3mobile dongle?
[23:28] <o0000o> 3G Mobile GSM router/connection (it sucks ass)
[23:28] <AlanBell> right, in that case you are directly on the internet
[23:28] <o0000o> AlanBell: how you respond in less than 1 sec?
[23:28] <diplo> heh, i wondered that
[23:28] <diplo> :D
[23:29] <diplo> ah he whois'd you i reckon
[23:29]  * o0000o is paranoid now
[23:29] <AlanBell>  /whois and whois
[23:29] <diplo> :D
[23:29]  * o0000o is scared now
[23:29] <AlanBell> want to be terrified :)
[23:29]  * diplo recommends o0000o gets a proper router with a 3g connection dongle option
[23:29]  * o0000o is devising plans for a big ass faraday cage
[23:30] <diplo> We use drayteks at work, allows you to plug a 3g dongle in as backup
[23:30] <diplo> But in your case you could use it as default
[23:30] <o0000o> I am poor
[23:30] <diplo> Could also then share with anyone else
[23:30] <diplo> Oh :(
[23:30] <o0000o> no software fix?
[23:30] <diplo> ufw then ?
[23:31] <popey> +1
[23:31] <o0000o> diplo: I has that installed, but is a little buggy
[23:31] <diplo> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UFW
[23:31] <o0000o> what shud I block?
[23:31] <diplo> Really, it's worked fine for me
[23:31] <diplo> block all incoming
[23:31] <diplo> that doc should help
[23:31] <o0000o> but I have a local net I need incoming
[23:32] <o0000o> how I workaround that?
[23:32] <ali1234> firewall by interface
[23:32] <o0000o> ???
[23:32] <diplo> ufw allow from 192l.168/ bleh
[23:33] <ali1234> yeah, or network mask
[23:33] <o0000o> but won't block all incoming overide that rule?
[23:33] <diplo> it's explained in that link i posted
[23:33] <diplo> that will allow all local traffic
[23:33] <AlanBell> block all incomming, and then add exceptions
[23:33] <ali1234> the rules are ordered. so you can allow all then block specific things, or block all then allow specific things
[23:34] <diplo> Or you could change the default port for VNC to something random
[23:34] <ali1234> eh, that will work for about 5 minutes :)
[23:34] <diplo> :)
[23:35] <ali1234> the UFW interface is pretty simple, and it has a big "on/off" button so if you mess up you can just turn it off and start over
[23:35] <o0000o> soo, exceptions added are given a priority overide against the 'block all incoming' option, but 'block all incoming' is left preseverd for the ofther non-exceptioned protocals and addresses?
[23:35] <ali1234> yeah basically
[23:36] <AlanBell> o0000o: on the plus side, you have nothing much interesting under port 1000 open http://paste.ubuntu.com/838458/
[23:36] <o0000o> I don't wanna know this stuff or think about this stuff!
[23:36] <diplo> o0000o, By a router then :)
[23:36]  * o0000o curls up into a corner
[23:36] <diplo> buy*
[23:36] <ali1234> often 3g connections have multiple APNs
[23:36] <ali1234> some give you public IP, some don't
[23:36] <ali1234> so you could switch to one that doesn't
[23:37] <ali1234> maybe, depending on your provider
[23:37] <o0000o> so much information I really don't want the burdon of
[23:37] <o0000o> thx for the help, but, you know, I wanna be dangerously ignorant about this.
[23:38] <AlanBell> so get ADSL and a router
[23:38] <diplo> Will take all but 5-10 mins to set up o0000o
[23:38] <diplo> that doc explains it all
[23:38] <AlanBell> and turn on firewalling if connecting directly to the internet, or don't run services that open ports that you don't want to be opened to the world
[23:38] <o0000o> my spine shudders jus' thinking about this stuff
[23:39] <diplo> :P
[23:39] <diplo> It's why so many windows machines have viruses :)
[23:39] <o0000o> I'm scared, I want my blankie!
[23:39] <o0000o> D':
[23:40] <diplo> If you want to use a  computer you don't need to be a nerd but you either need to learn some basics or get a router to cover your arse :)
[23:40] <o0000o> diplo: should I strap it to my arse with Cat 5e or Cat 6?
[23:40] <o0000o> patch or crossover
[23:40] <diplo> Bit of both
[23:41] <o0000o> m'kay
[23:41] <o0000o> scary to think I'm a qualified IT Technician eh?
[23:42] <o0000o> my spine shudders jus' thinking about it
[23:42] <o0000o> XD
[23:42] <diplo> heh
[23:42] <o0000o> afk
[23:59] <jacobw> zzz