ScottLTheMuso, i'm back, was out with family, changing and be back on in a sec03:20
ScottLTheMuso, do you want to coordinate about what needs to be done?03:59
TheMusoScottL: Sorry, been in and out a bi8t.04:11
TheMusoScottL: Ok, so as I said in my recent email, I have the lintian errors in hand.04:11
TheMusoBut I don't know who needs contacting in the kernel team about the ABI numbers.04:11
ScottLTheMuso, i admit that i do not fully understand the 'abi numbers'04:42
ScottLTheMuso, thank you for correcting the lintian errors04:42
ScottLTheMuso, however, i will gladly bug UKT members about the ABI numbers04:43
ScottLTheMuso, but are we pushing the limits to get a second review before thursday?  should we mobilize a few people to bug #ubuntu-motu or other places/people?04:44
ScottLjust to be clear....04:44
ScottLTheMuso, if you can explain a little more about the ABI numbers i certainly don't mind doing the leg work to follow up with people, however i am not currently doing it04:45
TheMusoScottL: Ok, the aBI number changes every time the kernel ABI changes when there are changes made to the kernel. This is done to make sure modules/other stuff built against the kernel doesn't break, more more correctly, shows when external stuff against the kernel breaks due to changes.04:50
ScottLTheMuso, okay, i will bug a few people in #ubuntu-kernel about it but also email apw (or ping him directly) about it05:24
ScottLTheMuso, i'll also start announcing in #ubuntu-motu and poking a few other people about reviewing the kernel tomorrow morning05:24
ScottLTheMuso, i am presuming you dput'ed the kernel changes back into REVU05:24
TheMusoScottL: Not yet, but I can.05:34
TheMusoScottL: Oh, who do you want as maintainer? The maintainer field cannot have 2 maintainers listed.05:34
TheMusoAccording to lintian anyway.05:34
micahgcorrect, 1 maintainer (which should be ubuntu-devel-discuss), the rest should be Uploaders:05:36
TheMusoIt doesn't have to be ubuntu-devel-discuss, but it has to be someone with an ubuntu.com address.05:39
micahgno, it really should be ubuntu-devel-discuss05:44
micahga secondary team address can be added to Uploaders05:45
TheMusoFair enough.05:45
* micahg is guilty of making the Maintainer a team address as well, but it's not right05:46
TheMusoIs that policy?>05:46
micahgunoffical, we changed update-maintainer a while back to set ubuntu-devel-discuss as the maintainer across the board05:47
micahgas Ubuntu doesn't officially have maintainers, setting Maintainer to something other than ubuntu-devel-discuss gives the wrong impression05:48
micahgthat doesn't mean that everyone that can should randomly upload stuff, but it shouldn't be used to give the impression of excluding people who want to help with things05:49
ScottLTheMuso, i would suggest me as maintainer as i don't want to impose on abogani (although i will most likely rely on his expertise)06:23
ScottLTheMuso, although would it be possible to put the ubuntustudio-dev team as maintainer?  if not, then certainly feel free to use my name 'Scott Lavender <slavender@ubuntu.com>'06:24
TheMusoScottL: read above re what micahg said, I can certainly put you guys as uploaders.09:05
scott-workTheMuso: ping14:38
scott-workastraljava: ping14:38
lenscott-work: Would you like me to try making the theme work?16:11
lenYou had mentioned the menus, but all the required apps are not in place yet.16:12
scott-worklen: i was hoping to look at this this afternoon, but i certainly have enough to do, so please do so :)16:12
lenWhat is the package name?16:12
scott-worklen: when i mentioned the menu i meant more about the larger structure, not if every app is in the correct place16:13
scott-worklen: what i mean, i would like the 'audio production' menu not under the 'multimedia' menu16:13
scott-workthose types of things16:13
lenOK, I am not sure how I would change it.16:13
holsteini actually like it there though16:13
holsteinand it matches the way it was16:13
scott-workholstein: i don't think it matches the way it was16:14
holsteinscott-work: used to be under "audio"16:14
holsteini think the multimedia label is better anyways16:14
holsteinit was under a sub-heading like that16:14
holsteini mean.. go for it.. im just stating opinion and preference16:14
lenUsing multimedia is fine when there are three apps... video, audio and volume...16:15
scott-workbut what if we used "multimedia" for more desktop actions, play a movie, play a cd, etc16:15
scott-workbut have another menu for audio production16:15
holsteineh.. i like it being there16:15
scott-workand another for video stuff, and antoher for graphic16:15
holsteinnot getting an extra one16:15
holsteinand its already like that16:15
holsteinbut again.. im with you scott-work 16:15
holsteini just remember looking there on the live CD.. seeing it under multimedia and thinking "hey, thats where it should be"16:16
holsteini went right to it.. where as in gnome, some of the stuff seemed out of place where it was16:16
lengraphics is already split.. ok I will look at that. Where are we putting that I see there is some in the share directory, but some in /etc too16:16
lenholstein: we could do both.16:18
holsteinnah.. i can move them if i want in the end.. im just stating my preference for the things as-is, which is easier to maintain as well :)16:19
holsteindoesnt mother me personally either way16:19
scott-worki downloaded the image last night to test a few things, i'll see if i can put the menu like i see it and i'll post an image to show the structure16:19
holsteini just hope i *actually* get this evening to myself :/16:19
* holstein running to the concert.. o/16:19
scott-workmy thougth again, is that we are media creation distribution and that those work flows should be very present and accessible16:20
lenDo we really want to split the menu to every work flow?16:21
lenscott-work: we were originally talking about having a software loader that just loaded the wanted workflows, but I think that is gone because we want the live dvd to have "everything" and live dvd seems to mean it has whatever an install has.16:23
lenSo the only reason for splitting the metas into workflows wold be so someone who has another ubuntu/deb flavour can just install one workflow.16:24
lenIt seems like ubiquity will just install eveything.16:24
lenThat being the case it may be just as easy to have only a few metas.16:25
lenardour3b3 is released...16:28
lenWe may be able to have a shiny new ardour3 for 12.1116:32
scott-worklen: this isn't for every work flow16:34
scott-worklen: but do you want every audio, video, graphical, and photography application int he same menu?16:34
scott-worki don't think that is a very practical approach16:34
scott-worknor do i think having your pedestrian applications (like totem and audacious) in media creation menus (i.e. audio production, graphical, or video menus)16:35
scott-worki view totem and audacious to be desktop applications, things you do to consume media, tasks that your everyday user would do as well16:35
scott-workbut i would like the things you do to create the media in their own menus, but not under the multimedia menu16:36
lenYa, I thought something like that16:36
lenIt would be nice to let audio interface card controllers be on their own.16:37
lenWe end up with a lot of extra stuff clogging up the audio menu with all of them16:37
astraljavascott-work: pong, wait what‽ You're working on Sunday?16:39
lenAnybody know PA very well? I was wondering how easy it is to change settings on the fly from the CLI16:46
lenI would like to change the audio interface (to none) when jackd starts so that PA-jackd bridging works.16:48
lenopps...ignore thaT16:49
scott-workastraljava: yeah, but i'm leaving now...i was just wondering if we were going to have a meeting (informal or otherwise)16:55
scott-worksee you in about thirty minutes16:55
astraljavaScottL: We can haz. It's informal turn.16:57
lenScottL astraljava whoever... I was just wondering if a tearoff menu for each workflow would be of use.17:24
ScottLi'm back17:27
lenThat is an app that has just the menubar and each item is a different workflow. Click on the workflow and tear it off and that menu can be put anywhere on the desktop. It would have just the apps for that workflow.17:27
ScottLlen, yes, i agree that having the mixers in their own sub-menu would be helpful.  i have also considered putting plugins in their own submenu as well17:27
ScottLnothing is formalized yet, but i would like to see what makes sense, helpful to users, and not too much trouble for us17:28
lenI would put a synth or sound generator sub17:28
ScottLlen, that is a good suggestion17:28
lenI don't know if xfce supports tearoffs, but I will whip up a tk/tcl app with two workflows just to see how it would look.17:30
ScottLlen, i'm not sure about "tearoffs", i haven't heard of them before17:32
lenIt may be possible (but dangerous?) to detect the sound IF and only show mixers that fit.17:32
lenThat is why I will put together a tktcl script to show you...17:32
ScottLlen, one thing i've done is use the panel and added a basic work flow in a "fly-out" or "stack"17:33
lenIt is easier to show than tell.17:33
ScottLin the menu, you click on the single icon and an entire string of work flow icons comes out (in my case it was sideways because it was a side menu)17:33
lenMy thought is that the main menu of work flows would go away when one of the subs was selected17:34
lenThe main would come back when it was closed.17:34
lenI would suggest that the mini menu/pannel on the bottom be moved by default to be on the side... any one I have talked to puts it there and all the new screens are wider.17:36
ScottLlen, not to shut down your enthusiasm but, i'm not too worried about this right now17:37
ScottLlen, i DO want to focus on it in a cycle or two though :)17:37
lenScottL: you are at least the third person who has said yours is vertical17:37
ScottLi'm hoping to get the basic functionality pretty stable and well rounded this cycle and the next17:38
ScottLthen i wanted to start focusing on making things better for new, inexeperienced users (i.e. non-linux users)17:38
ScottLthis would even mean changes to how jackd behaves perhaps and better project management for audio17:39
lenScottL: I would say the theme is standing in the way of new users right now ;-)17:39
ScottL(ladish could be the chosen "audio project management" tool, maybe not, maybe we go with scripts and our own dialouge)17:39
ScottLlen, yeah, i'm going upstairs in a bit to install the latest image and see what's up17:40
lenTo use Jackd, properly... PA needs to either be restarted after jackd or needs to have it's alsa ports set to none on the fly. and a2jmidid needs to be started after jackd.17:41
lenIt would almost be better to default PA to no output and run jackd all the time.17:42
ScottLlen, it may be that the pulseaudio-module-jack isn't installed or installed properly or we need to make another adjustment17:43
lenPA is the problem. The modules are all there.17:43
len PA just doesn't drop it's alsa connection when it connects to jack.17:44
lenThis way of doing things may actually be correct.17:44
lenBecause jack may be using one audio IF and PA may also be meeding a second.17:45
lenmeeding should be feeding17:45
lenI ran a session with jackd/pulse/a2jmidid with all the multimedia stuff running17:47
lenlike audacious, video, flash, minitube etc. it all worked fine.17:48
lenI used audacious as an input audacity which also worked fine.17:48
lenAnyway, I need to go. Be back after lunch.17:49
ScottLlen, but also jack may need to be the the jack-dbus version or have it enabled or similar17:50
ScottLi'm not sure what jack is working right now17:50
TheMusoScottL: Sorry, I got sidetracked last night.21:15
ScottLTheMuso, that's okay, i'm still feeling a little off myself21:16
ScottLwhat should the next step be?21:17
TheMusoWell I need to upload the revised package.21:19
TheMusoAnd will do so in the next hour or so, just coming online for work after the weekend, so processing email and such.21:19
len-nbScottL: Yup jackd is dbus... at least that is what it says in ps x.21:59
len-nbIt really is a PA issue. Just changing PA settings makes it work.21:59
TheMusolen-1204: What settings need changing?22:06
len-1204TheMuso: when jackd is started, the output settings of PA need to be set to none.22:09
len-1204I can do that manually with pavucontrol (last tab) and everything works.22:10
len-1204I can do this before or after I start jackd and it still seems to work either way.22:10
len-1204As long as PA is using alsa as an output and jackd is using it, PA can't output anything as it is in a wait state.22:12
len-1204One point of view might be this is a bug and another that this is a correct action.22:13
TheMusoHrm. Do you have the jackdbus module loaded? When pulse is running but not jack, have a look at the "pmc list-modules" command output.22:13
TheMusoSorry that shoudl be "pacmd list-modules"22:13
len-1204Wow, that is about 5 pages. What am I looking for?22:15
len-1204name: <module-jackdbus-detect>22:15
len-1204Soon as jackd starts, PA connects to it and a look at jackd connections through qjackctl shows it set up correctly.22:17
len-1204ScottL: There seems to be more than one menu file that does the same thing.23:39
len-1204There is /usr/share/ubuntustudio-menu/menus/applications.menu23:40
len-1204and there is /etc/xdg/menus/applications-merged/ubuntustudio-mutimedia.menu23:42

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