[03:20] <ScottL> TheMuso, i'm back, was out with family, changing and be back on in a sec
[03:59] <ScottL> TheMuso, do you want to coordinate about what needs to be done?
[04:11] <TheMuso> ScottL: Sorry, been in and out a bi8t.
[04:11] <TheMuso> ScottL: Ok, so as I said in my recent email, I have the lintian errors in hand.
[04:11] <TheMuso> But I don't know who needs contacting in the kernel team about the ABI numbers.
[04:42] <ScottL> TheMuso, i admit that i do not fully understand the 'abi numbers'
[04:42] <ScottL> TheMuso, thank you for correcting the lintian errors
[04:43] <ScottL> TheMuso, however, i will gladly bug UKT members about the ABI numbers
[04:44] <ScottL> TheMuso, but are we pushing the limits to get a second review before thursday?  should we mobilize a few people to bug #ubuntu-motu or other places/people?
[04:44] <ScottL> just to be clear....
[04:45] <ScottL> TheMuso, if you can explain a little more about the ABI numbers i certainly don't mind doing the leg work to follow up with people, however i am not currently doing it
[04:50] <TheMuso> ScottL: Ok, the aBI number changes every time the kernel ABI changes when there are changes made to the kernel. This is done to make sure modules/other stuff built against the kernel doesn't break, more more correctly, shows when external stuff against the kernel breaks due to changes.
[05:24] <ScottL> TheMuso, okay, i will bug a few people in #ubuntu-kernel about it but also email apw (or ping him directly) about it
[05:24] <ScottL> TheMuso, i'll also start announcing in #ubuntu-motu and poking a few other people about reviewing the kernel tomorrow morning
[05:24] <ScottL> TheMuso, i am presuming you dput'ed the kernel changes back into REVU
[05:34] <TheMuso> ScottL: Not yet, but I can.
[05:34] <TheMuso> ScottL: Oh, who do you want as maintainer? The maintainer field cannot have 2 maintainers listed.
[05:34] <TheMuso> According to lintian anyway.
[05:36] <micahg> correct, 1 maintainer (which should be ubuntu-devel-discuss), the rest should be Uploaders:
[05:39] <TheMuso> It doesn't have to be ubuntu-devel-discuss, but it has to be someone with an ubuntu.com address.
[05:44] <micahg> no, it really should be ubuntu-devel-discuss
[05:45] <micahg> a secondary team address can be added to Uploaders
[05:45] <TheMuso> Fair enough.
[05:46]  * micahg is guilty of making the Maintainer a team address as well, but it's not right
[05:46] <TheMuso> Is that policy?>
[05:47] <micahg> unoffical, we changed update-maintainer a while back to set ubuntu-devel-discuss as the maintainer across the board
[05:48] <micahg> as Ubuntu doesn't officially have maintainers, setting Maintainer to something other than ubuntu-devel-discuss gives the wrong impression
[05:49] <micahg> that doesn't mean that everyone that can should randomly upload stuff, but it shouldn't be used to give the impression of excluding people who want to help with things
[05:49] <TheMuso> Right.
[06:23] <ScottL> TheMuso, i would suggest me as maintainer as i don't want to impose on abogani (although i will most likely rely on his expertise)
[06:24] <ScottL> TheMuso, although would it be possible to put the ubuntustudio-dev team as maintainer?  if not, then certainly feel free to use my name 'Scott Lavender <slavender@ubuntu.com>'
[09:05] <TheMuso> ScottL: read above re what micahg said, I can certainly put you guys as uploaders.
[14:38] <scott-work> TheMuso: ping
[14:38] <scott-work> astraljava: ping
[16:11] <len> scott-work: Would you like me to try making the theme work?
[16:12] <len> You had mentioned the menus, but all the required apps are not in place yet.
[16:12] <scott-work> len: i was hoping to look at this this afternoon, but i certainly have enough to do, so please do so :)
[16:12] <len> What is the package name?
[16:13] <scott-work> len: when i mentioned the menu i meant more about the larger structure, not if every app is in the correct place
[16:13] <scott-work> len: what i mean, i would like the 'audio production' menu not under the 'multimedia' menu
[16:13] <scott-work> those types of things
[16:13] <len> OK, I am not sure how I would change it.
[16:13] <holstein> i actually like it there though
[16:13] <holstein> and it matches the way it was
[16:14] <scott-work> holstein: i don't think it matches the way it was
[16:14] <holstein> scott-work: used to be under "audio"
[16:14] <holstein> i think the multimedia label is better anyways
[16:14] <holstein> it was under a sub-heading like that
[16:14] <holstein> i mean.. go for it.. im just stating opinion and preference
[16:15] <len> Using multimedia is fine when there are three apps... video, audio and volume...
[16:15] <scott-work> but what if we used "multimedia" for more desktop actions, play a movie, play a cd, etc
[16:15] <scott-work> but have another menu for audio production
[16:15] <holstein> eh.. i like it being there
[16:15] <scott-work> and another for video stuff, and antoher for graphic
[16:15] <holstein> not getting an extra one
[16:15] <holstein> and its already like that
[16:15] <holstein> but again.. im with you scott-work 
[16:16] <holstein> i just remember looking there on the live CD.. seeing it under multimedia and thinking "hey, thats where it should be"
[16:16] <holstein> i went right to it.. where as in gnome, some of the stuff seemed out of place where it was
[16:16] <len> graphics is already split.. ok I will look at that. Where are we putting that I see there is some in the share directory, but some in /etc too
[16:18] <len> holstein: we could do both.
[16:19] <holstein> nah.. i can move them if i want in the end.. im just stating my preference for the things as-is, which is easier to maintain as well :)
[16:19] <holstein> doesnt mother me personally either way
[16:19] <scott-work> i downloaded the image last night to test a few things, i'll see if i can put the menu like i see it and i'll post an image to show the structure
[16:19] <holstein> i just hope i *actually* get this evening to myself :/
[16:19]  * holstein running to the concert.. o/
[16:20] <scott-work> my thougth again, is that we are media creation distribution and that those work flows should be very present and accessible
[16:21] <len> Do we really want to split the menu to every work flow?
[16:23] <len> scott-work: we were originally talking about having a software loader that just loaded the wanted workflows, but I think that is gone because we want the live dvd to have "everything" and live dvd seems to mean it has whatever an install has.
[16:24] <len> So the only reason for splitting the metas into workflows wold be so someone who has another ubuntu/deb flavour can just install one workflow.
[16:24] <len> It seems like ubiquity will just install eveything.
[16:25] <len> That being the case it may be just as easy to have only a few metas.
[16:28] <len> ardour3b3 is released...
[16:32] <len> We may be able to have a shiny new ardour3 for 12.11
[16:34] <scott-work> len: this isn't for every work flow
[16:34] <scott-work> len: but do you want every audio, video, graphical, and photography application int he same menu?
[16:34] <scott-work> i don't think that is a very practical approach
[16:35] <scott-work> nor do i think having your pedestrian applications (like totem and audacious) in media creation menus (i.e. audio production, graphical, or video menus)
[16:35] <scott-work> i view totem and audacious to be desktop applications, things you do to consume media, tasks that your everyday user would do as well
[16:36] <scott-work> but i would like the things you do to create the media in their own menus, but not under the multimedia menu
[16:36] <len> Ya, I thought something like that
[16:37] <len> It would be nice to let audio interface card controllers be on their own.
[16:37] <len> We end up with a lot of extra stuff clogging up the audio menu with all of them
[16:39] <astraljava> scott-work: pong, wait what‽ You're working on Sunday?
[16:46] <len> Anybody know PA very well? I was wondering how easy it is to change settings on the fly from the CLI
[16:48] <len> I would like to change the audio interface (to none) when jackd starts so that PA-jackd bridging works.
[16:48] <len> exit
[16:49] <len> opps...ignore thaT
[16:55] <scott-work> astraljava: yeah, but i'm leaving now...i was just wondering if we were going to have a meeting (informal or otherwise)
[16:55] <scott-work> see you in about thirty minutes
[16:57] <astraljava> ScottL: We can haz. It's informal turn.
[17:24] <len> ScottL astraljava whoever... I was just wondering if a tearoff menu for each workflow would be of use.
[17:27] <ScottL> i'm back
[17:27] <len> That is an app that has just the menubar and each item is a different workflow. Click on the workflow and tear it off and that menu can be put anywhere on the desktop. It would have just the apps for that workflow.
[17:27] <ScottL> len, yes, i agree that having the mixers in their own sub-menu would be helpful.  i have also considered putting plugins in their own submenu as well
[17:28] <ScottL> nothing is formalized yet, but i would like to see what makes sense, helpful to users, and not too much trouble for us
[17:28] <len> I would put a synth or sound generator sub
[17:28] <ScottL> len, that is a good suggestion
[17:30] <len> I don't know if xfce supports tearoffs, but I will whip up a tk/tcl app with two workflows just to see how it would look.
[17:32] <ScottL> len, i'm not sure about "tearoffs", i haven't heard of them before
[17:32] <len> It may be possible (but dangerous?) to detect the sound IF and only show mixers that fit.
[17:32] <len> That is why I will put together a tktcl script to show you...
[17:33] <ScottL> len, one thing i've done is use the panel and added a basic work flow in a "fly-out" or "stack"
[17:33] <len> It is easier to show than tell.
[17:33] <ScottL> in the menu, you click on the single icon and an entire string of work flow icons comes out (in my case it was sideways because it was a side menu)
[17:34] <len> My thought is that the main menu of work flows would go away when one of the subs was selected
[17:34] <len> The main would come back when it was closed.
[17:36] <len> I would suggest that the mini menu/pannel on the bottom be moved by default to be on the side... any one I have talked to puts it there and all the new screens are wider.
[17:37] <ScottL> len, not to shut down your enthusiasm but, i'm not too worried about this right now
[17:37] <ScottL> len, i DO want to focus on it in a cycle or two though :)
[17:37] <len> ScottL: you are at least the third person who has said yours is vertical
[17:38] <ScottL> i'm hoping to get the basic functionality pretty stable and well rounded this cycle and the next
[17:38] <ScottL> then i wanted to start focusing on making things better for new, inexeperienced users (i.e. non-linux users)
[17:39] <ScottL> this would even mean changes to how jackd behaves perhaps and better project management for audio
[17:39] <len> ScottL: I would say the theme is standing in the way of new users right now ;-)
[17:39] <ScottL> (ladish could be the chosen "audio project management" tool, maybe not, maybe we go with scripts and our own dialouge)
[17:40] <ScottL> len, yeah, i'm going upstairs in a bit to install the latest image and see what's up
[17:41] <len> To use Jackd, properly... PA needs to either be restarted after jackd or needs to have it's alsa ports set to none on the fly. and a2jmidid needs to be started after jackd.
[17:42] <len> It would almost be better to default PA to no output and run jackd all the time.
[17:43] <ScottL> len, it may be that the pulseaudio-module-jack isn't installed or installed properly or we need to make another adjustment
[17:43] <len> PA is the problem. The modules are all there.
[17:44] <len>  PA just doesn't drop it's alsa connection when it connects to jack.
[17:44] <len> This way of doing things may actually be correct.
[17:45] <len> Because jack may be using one audio IF and PA may also be meeding a second.
[17:45] <len> meeding should be feeding
[17:47] <len> I ran a session with jackd/pulse/a2jmidid with all the multimedia stuff running
[17:48] <len> like audacious, video, flash, minitube etc. it all worked fine.
[17:48] <len> I used audacious as an input audacity which also worked fine.
[17:49] <len> Anyway, I need to go. Be back after lunch.
[17:50] <ScottL> len, but also jack may need to be the the jack-dbus version or have it enabled or similar
[17:50] <ScottL> i'm not sure what jack is working right now
[21:15] <TheMuso> ScottL: Sorry, I got sidetracked last night.
[21:16] <ScottL> TheMuso, that's okay, i'm still feeling a little off myself
[21:17] <ScottL> what should the next step be?
[21:19] <TheMuso> Well I need to upload the revised package.
[21:19] <TheMuso> And will do so in the next hour or so, just coming online for work after the weekend, so processing email and such.
[21:59] <len-nb> ScottL: Yup jackd is dbus... at least that is what it says in ps x.
[21:59] <len-nb> It really is a PA issue. Just changing PA settings makes it work.
[22:06] <TheMuso> len-1204: What settings need changing?
[22:09] <len-1204> TheMuso: when jackd is started, the output settings of PA need to be set to none.
[22:10] <len-1204> I can do that manually with pavucontrol (last tab) and everything works.
[22:10] <len-1204> I can do this before or after I start jackd and it still seems to work either way.
[22:12] <len-1204> As long as PA is using alsa as an output and jackd is using it, PA can't output anything as it is in a wait state.
[22:13] <len-1204> One point of view might be this is a bug and another that this is a correct action.
[22:13] <TheMuso> Hrm. Do you have the jackdbus module loaded? When pulse is running but not jack, have a look at the "pmc list-modules" command output.
[22:13] <TheMuso> Sorry that shoudl be "pacmd list-modules"
[22:15] <len-1204> Wow, that is about 5 pages. What am I looking for?
[22:15] <len-1204> name: <module-jackdbus-detect>
[22:17] <len-1204> Soon as jackd starts, PA connects to it and a look at jackd connections through qjackctl shows it set up correctly.
[22:18] <TheMuso> Ok.
[23:39] <len-1204> ScottL: There seems to be more than one menu file that does the same thing.
[23:40] <len-1204> There is /usr/share/ubuntustudio-menu/menus/applications.menu
[23:42] <len-1204> and there is /etc/xdg/menus/applications-merged/ubuntustudio-mutimedia.menu