[00:10]  * Kurdistan bed time. take care everyone.
[00:15] <Riddell> yofel: http://starsky.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/pavucontrol.png
[00:16] <yofel> yeah, seen that with gnome-tweak-tool and no working gtk3 theme
[00:16] <yofel> it's fine with oxygen-gtk3
[00:17]  * Riddell snoozes
[00:31] <Riddell> afiestas: ^^
[00:32] <afiestas> I just had a mental fart, thought was talking in kubuntu-devel but actually was talking in another channel xD
[00:33] <afiestas> Riddell: you are missing some icons as do I
[04:03] <Tm_T> yofel: yes I have those in my krandrrc
[07:50] <djszapi> hi! Does the kde-runtime package (4.8 version) build the plasma components API ?
[09:29] <Riddell> djszapi: it's builds runtime components, as you can find out from the packaging
[09:29] <djszapi> Riddell: also plasma active ones, like this ? http://api.kde.org/4.x-api/plasma-qml-apidocs/
[09:30] <Riddell> those are API
[09:30] <Riddell> dpkg -L kde-runtime
[09:30] <Riddell> dpkg -L kde-runtime-data
[09:30] <djszapi> Riddell: porting the kubuntu package to Harmattan. The build is not done yet, but I am gonna check out the contents.
[09:31] <djszapi> I know kubuntu used an activity "hack" earlier.
[09:31] <djszapi> in the rules file, I think.
[09:31] <apachelogger> acitivity hack?
[09:31] <Riddell> I don't remember making any changes to activities
[09:32] <apachelogger> well, they were hidden from the cashew back in 4.1 or so, due to them being utterly broken and confusing :P
[09:32] <apachelogger> scary times those were
[09:32] <Riddell> there's a problem plama-desktop's dependencies (or lack of them) on libkactivities6 and libkactivities-bin
[09:32] <Riddell> apachelogger: they're still a bad user experience
[09:33] <djszapi> apachelogger: yes, double configure.
[09:33] <apachelogger> Riddell: not as bad ^^
[09:33] <Riddell> win-tab key and all your windows disappear without any clue what's happened, so nasty
[09:42] <Riddell> yofel: ug rekonq is nothing but crash for me now
[09:42]  * Riddell tries a dist-upgrade
[09:43] <yofel> Worked for me as long as i keep away from flash
[09:43] <djszapi> Riddell: anyway, thanks :)
[09:46] <Riddell> djszapi: hmm, kde-runtime: /usr/lib/kde4/plasma_appletscript_declarative.so
[09:46] <Riddell> so that file does come from -runtime so maybe you're right
[09:47] <djszapi> Riddell: http://paste.xinu.at/H36u/ -> I had this rules file for KDE/4.7
[09:48] <djszapi> there was a separate series-active patch set.
[09:48] <djszapi> I am almost pretty sure I got it adopted from ubuntu.
[09:49] <Riddell> that might be rbelem's area
[09:49] <Riddell> he's been into adding mobile and tablet patches
[09:50] <Riddell> djszapi: have you asked ervin or another kde platform guy what other configure flags are available for mobile needs?
[09:50] <djszapi> just this platform profile.
[09:50] <djszapi> but I can notmart and aseigo
[09:50] <djszapi> about plasma active in general
[09:51] <Riddell> we're behind in pacakging plasma active at the moment, any patches we've added are probably out of date
[10:01] <Riddell> yofel: a dist-upgrade sorted it, must be some abi breakage we didn't catch, not importnat
[10:03] <yofel> k
[10:03] <yofel> Did someone look at digikam yet?
[10:04] <Riddell> no, it's on my todo list but I think I'm wanting to do owncloud today
[10:04] <Riddell> or maybe I should work out what calligra needs to compile
[10:05] <yofel> For calligra just throw the whole unfunctional marble check out and define it by hand
[10:06] <Riddell> gosh I find it really objectionable how google is using their front page to advertise chrome now
[10:09] <Riddell> ug new "go" button in rekonq is labeled "load typed URL", that's not remotely user friendly
[10:09] <Tm_T> Riddell: they're been doing that for several months quite aggressively now
[10:09] <Riddell> Tm_T: what giving bad labels to buttons?
[10:21] <Tm_T> Riddell: I mean google and chrome ads
[10:22] <Tm_T> talking about bad labels, finnish translation of monitor settings talks about printers
[10:30] <Riddell> Tm_T: translation issues need working out if it's a bug from launchpad or upstream and reported in the right place
[10:31] <Tm_T> yup
[10:31] <Tm_T> just noticed that yesterday, haven't had time yet to look from where it comes and who did it
[10:31] <Tm_T> although I have an idea
[10:33] <Riddell> yofel: think this'll do it? http://quickgit.kde.org/index.php?p=calligra.git&a=commitdiff_plain&h=5e647de09265c4487f9a37d0a50a755abb3cf303
[10:34] <yofel> I'm just trying it, but that failed in neon
[10:35] <Riddell> I can't see why it would work, it's just some cmake bits, nothing useful like checking the version of the marble library
[10:41] <yofel> same error with official 4.8
[10:41] <Riddell> that compiler line is missing any -I/usr/include/qt4/QtCore/
[10:42] <Riddell> so yes this might help set(CMAKE_REQUIRED_INCLUDES ${QT_QTCORE_INCLUDES}
[10:42] <yofel> well, it does already have set(CMAKE_REQUIRED_INCLUDES ${QT_QTCORE_INCLUDES} ${QT_QTGUI_INCLUDES})
[10:43] <Riddell> yeah that's why it's weird
[10:43] <Riddell> as a quick fix include_directories(/usr/include/qt4/QtCore/) should help
[10:44] <Riddell> in the right place
[10:49] <yofel> fun
[10:49] <yofel> message("includes: ${QT_QTCORE_INCLUDES}")
[10:49] <yofel> -> includes:
[10:52] <apachelogger> Riddell: what are the rekonq bts?
[10:52] <Riddell> apachelogger: bts?
[10:52] <apachelogger> backtraces
[10:52] <Riddell> apachelogger: no idea, a dist upgrade sorted it so it'll have been an abi issue
[10:53] <apachelogger> weird enough
[10:53] <Riddell> now it's working fine, not crashed yet
[10:53] <Riddell> not dared to use flash yet though
[11:05] <Riddell> yofel: I get in the cmake output "-- Performing Test SETMARBLEWIDGET - Failed
[11:05] <Riddell> which I guess is what I want
[11:05] <yofel> yes, you want that
[11:05] <yofel> I'm just trying to find out why the include variables are empty
[11:06] <Riddell> mm, some cmake weirdness there, they should be filled in by default when using the KDE cmake stuff
[11:20] <yofel> ok, wtf? now I have " -I/usr/include/qt4/QtCore -I/usr/include/qt4/QtGui", but it still fails with QtCore/QtGlobal: No such file or directory o.O
[11:22] <Riddell> umm
[11:22] <Riddell> oh then you'll need -I/usr/include/qt4/
[11:22] <Riddell> for QtCore/QtGlobal
[11:22] <yofel> *headdesk*
[11:22] <Riddell> else it'll be looking for /usr/include/qt4/QtCore/QtCore/QtGlobal
[11:23] <yofel> bah, I'm still asleep today
[11:25] <yofel> works \o/
[11:25] <Riddell> awooga
[11:25] <Riddell> how did you fix 
[11:25] <Riddell> how did you fix/workaround it?
[11:25] <yofel> -        set(CMAKE_REQUIRED_INCLUDES ${QT_QTCORE_INCLUDES} ${QT_QTGUI_INCLUDES})
[11:25] <yofel> +        set(CMAKE_REQUIRED_INCLUDES ${QT_INCLUDE_DIR})
[11:25] <yofel> someone didn't read the find_package() documentation properly
[11:26] <Riddell> hah
[11:26] <Kurdistan> I have found intressting bug. when I use my usb bluetooth to send files from laptopt-phone my laptop freeze.
[11:26] <Kurdistan> known bug?
[11:27] <Kurdistan> it freezes everytime I try.
[11:27] <Riddell> no, afiestas has the knowledge in that area
[11:28] <Kurdistan> okey. it finds my bluetooth correct and everything, but when I try to send stuff my laptop freeze. 
[11:29] <Riddell> yofel: are you parallel building calligra or just single CPU build?
[11:29] <Riddell> because when I do make -j4 it always stops randomly but make -j1 carries on fine
[11:29] <yofel> in neon we build with --parallel, but don't ask me if it really does that
[11:29] <Riddell> I don't think that does anything currently
[11:30] <yofel> I'll give it a try with -j4
[11:30] <Riddell> I have done, lots, always get errors
[11:30] <Riddell> calligra needs to have its CMakeLists files sorted for parallel build then but as we just discovered they're no experts in CMakeLists :)
[11:31] <Kurdistan> can it be kernel related or is it kde?
[11:31] <yofel> if the OS freezes, kernel
[11:31] <Kurdistan> yofel, that was my first thought to.
[11:31] <Riddell> Kurdistan: there are many more layers for possible blame
[11:32] <Kurdistan> I have tested the different 3.0* kernels and same result
[11:32] <yofel> well, kernel if you can't switch to a TTY anymore, and sysrq+reisub doesn't work either
[11:33] <Kurdistan> should bug report it then.
[11:33]  * yofel replied to the calligra commit mail he got
[11:33] <Kurdistan> but I do not know against what kernel/bluez/graphical driver?
[11:34] <yofel> #ubuntu-bugs might help
[11:36] <Kurdistan> yofel, let se if they reply.
[12:17] <Riddell> hmm 
[12:17] <Riddell> /home/jr/src/calligra/calligra-2.3.87/active/src/MainWindow.h:27:26: fatal error: kdeclarative.h: No such file or directory
[12:18] <Riddell> ah, new build-dep on kdelibs5-experimental-dev
[12:31] <Kurdistan> yofel, now I have bigger problem. I tried install bluetooth package and bluez-utils something like that
[12:31] <Kurdistan> after that bluedevil was installed
[12:31] <Kurdistan> now when I try to install bluedevil it does not work
[12:32] <Kurdistan> bluedevil was removed sorry. I try to install bluedevil again but does not work.
[12:32] <Kurdistan> conflict between kde 4.8.0 and bluedevil version for kubuntu 11.10?
[12:34] <Kurdistan> I removed does files installed and wanted to install bluedevil again and now it does not work.
[12:34] <Kurdistan> :(
[12:53] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: yofel how do we want to proceed on KDE Telepathy?
[12:54] <shadeslayer_> 0.3 is up for testing, there were a couple of packaging bugs that I fixed later on
[12:55] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: if I test it and I like what I see is it good enough to upload?
[12:55] <Kurdistan> trying to build bluedevil-1.3.1 if that will help.
[12:55] <Riddell> thanks Kurdistan 
[12:55] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: I'd suggest getting a OK from another Kubuntu Dev
[12:56] <shadeslayer_> just to cover all our bases
[12:56] <Kurdistan> Riddell, :) building for myself. I do not have any ppa yet.
[12:56] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: https://launchpad.net/~telepathy-kde/+archive/ppa
[12:57] <shadeslayer_> The meta package needs a bit of tweaking before a upload
[12:57] <shadeslayer_> i.e. remove all references about telepathy-kde since it never went into the archives
[12:58] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:58] <Kurdistan> BluesKaj, hi.
[12:58] <BluesKaj> hi Kurdistan
[12:59] <Kurdistan> any one that knows if there is conflict between bluedevil-1.2.1 and kde 4.8.0?
[12:59] <Kurdistan> bec. I can not install it anymore.
[12:59] <Kurdistan> let see if it makes any problem with 1.3.1
[13:02] <BluesKaj> I see 1.2.2 in the repos , as well as 1.9.1 libbluedevil-dev, Kurdistan
[13:03] <Kurdistan> BluesKaj, I am using kubuntu 11.10
[13:03] <Kurdistan> I know 12.04 have 1.2.2
[13:03] <BluesKaj> ok
[13:03] <Kurdistan> maybe kubuntu backports should have bluedevil 1.2.2
[13:03] <Kurdistan> ?
[13:05] <BluesKaj> I assume ppl are using 12.04 , due to this being a devel channel ... suppose i'd better put that assumption aside
[13:06]  * apachelogger hasn't used a dev series before beta *ever* :P
[13:07] <Kurdistan> brb
[13:10] <shadeslayer_> I usually upgrade 2 weeks after the first alpha
[13:20] <rbelem> Riddell, ping
[13:20] <BluesKaj> yeah, I'm having trouble with a wireless mouse on my other pc ...it won't move where you want it , moves randomly 
[13:21] <BluesKaj> wireless USB
[13:24] <Riddell> hi rbelem 
[13:25] <rbelem> Riddell, could you take a look in the plasma-mobile pkg https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-active/+archive/ppa/+packages
[13:25] <rbelem> Riddell, everything should be fine except the debian/copyright that i did not generated yet
[13:26] <Riddell> plasma mobile is still developed?
[13:26] <rbelem> Riddell, the source package still plasma-mobile but binaries are plasma-acitve
[13:27] <rbelem> Riddell, the project name still plasma-mobile in git and cmake
[13:27] <Riddell> hmm
[13:28] <Riddell> how very confusing of them
[13:28] <rbelem> :-D
[13:29] <Riddell> rbelem: diff compared to our current package looks good
[13:29] <Riddell> rbelem: does it compile and work?
[13:29] <agateau> hey, do we have packages for qt5 in a ppa somewhere?
[13:29] <Riddell> agateau: no it hasn't been packaged yet
[13:30] <agateau> Riddell: ok thanks
[13:30] <Riddell> and upstream is yet to make tars or even to work out if it's package-able
[13:30] <Riddell> (although dirk has done so for suse so something must be possible)
[13:30] <apol> Riddell: can kubuntu make use of it somehow? https://launchpad.net/~tehnick/+archive/kde-gtk-config
[13:31] <Riddell> yofel, apachelogger ^^ ?
[13:31] <rbelem> Riddell, i will run some stress tests before set it as ready :-D
[13:32] <Kurdistan> sorry guys/girls bludevil 1.2.1 is working (package). the reason it did not wanted to get installed was obex-server was removed
[13:32] <Riddell> rbelem: feature freeze is on thursday
[13:32] <rbelem> Riddell, do you know about any ui testing tool?
[13:32] <Riddell> rbelem: no, greyback knows of one but that'll take learning and setup to use
[13:32] <Riddell> Testability I think
[13:33] <rbelem> Riddell, hum... i will run with the tests then
[13:34] <apachelogger> Riddell: yes
[13:34] <apachelogger> I do not have my keys with me though
[13:34]  * apachelogger is at work
[13:34] <apachelogger> -rwxr-xr-x root/root      9636 2012-02-12 00:36 ./usr/bin/gtk_preview
[13:34] <apachelogger> -rwxr-xr-x root/root      5440 2012-02-12 00:36 ./usr/bin/reload_gtk_apps
[13:34] <apachelogger> -rwxr-xr-x root/root      9624 2012-02-12 00:36 ./usr/bin/gtk3_preview
[13:34] <apachelogger> those are rather generic names
[13:37] <yofel> Put it in universe, I don't like how it works, but that's gtk3's fault
[13:37] <dantti> rbelem: hey
[13:38] <rbelem> dantti, heya :-)
[13:38] <apachelogger> yofel: whether you like it does not concern the user much :P :P :P
[13:38] <dantti> rbelem: how's things? too busy?
[13:38] <apachelogger> Riddell: I do believe it should build with the kde argument in debian/rules
[13:38] <apachelogger> as it builds a kcm lib
[13:39] <Riddell> apachelogger: kde argument?  you mean the pkg-kde include line?
[13:39] <dantti> rbelem: how's your samba? wanna samba in this carnaval? :P I need some samba help can do you have some spare time?
[13:39] <rbelem> dantti, every thing is going fine :-) my son is taking a lots of my time :-D but it is good time spent
[13:39] <apachelogger> Riddell: it is an argument to dh nowadays, is it not?
[13:39] <Riddell> yofel: are you still wanting to get gtk theme bits into main or have you given up on that?
[13:39]  * apachelogger always copies from another packag e^^
[13:40] <debfx> why do we need 2 gtk theme KCMs?
[13:40] <apachelogger> we don't
[13:40] <dantti> rbelem: sure kids take lots of time..
[13:40] <apachelogger> new one is superior -> throw old one away
[13:40] <rbelem> dantti, :-D yup i have time
[13:41] <Riddell> apachelogger: kde sc still uses the old system of "include /usr/share/pkg-kde-tools/qt-kde-team/2/debian-qt-kde.mk" a newer way is to use "dh_auto_configure -Skde" as you say
[13:41] <apachelogger> neither is what I mean
[13:41] <rbelem> dantti, is it related to the kde ui for samba sharing?
[13:42] <dantti> rbelem: ok, I'm taking up the print-manager stuff again after a nice idea I had, but one of the missing things are a samba print search, that I really don't have much of an Idea of how it works...
[13:42] <dantti> rbelem: what I'd need is that you could take a look at what the system-config-printer does with samba and do it in cpp :D
[13:43] <yofel> The user doesn't care about the difference between gtk2 and 3 either
[13:43] <debfx> eh, haven't we discussed this whole gtk3 situation already? and done all the work necessary?
[13:43] <yofel> we have
[13:44] <rbelem> dantti, i can do that in some days i'm finishing the kcm filesharing
[13:44] <apachelogger> Riddell: 	dh $@ --with kde
[13:44] <apachelogger> that is the one I meant
[13:44] <Riddell> apachelogger: aah
[13:44] <rbelem> dantti, im planning to finish it till wed
[13:44] <apachelogger> the other stuff is only for SC IIRC
[13:44] <apachelogger> or used to be anyway
[13:44] <rbelem> dantti, then i can start
[13:45] <rbelem> dantti, is it ok?
[13:45] <dantti> rbelem: cool, probably till wednesday I'll have finished my changes on it too
[13:45] <dantti> rbelem: sure, sounds great...
[13:45] <rbelem> :-)
[13:45] <dantti> rbelem: not sure if you have a printer but this will be really cool adition to kde  :D
[13:47] <rbelem> dantti, yeah i think so this is something that really makes a difference for the users
[13:49] <Riddell> plasma active on kubuntu! http://starsky.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/active.png
[13:49] <Riddell> three cheers to rbelem 
[13:49] <Riddell> horribly slow with my GPU but
[13:50] <debfx> ok, so please let's keep this other gtk kcm out of the archive or if you really want it use a name that's actually distinguishable from the current one
[13:51] <rbelem> Riddell, :-D
[13:52] <Riddell> debfx: it's another option and might be useful or become useful so I think we should have it in the archive, but a distinguishable would be nice yes
[13:52] <Riddell> rbelem: I'm fine to just upload this, with FF on thursday and all
[13:54] <rbelem> Riddell, sweet :-) i will run to finish everything asap
[13:55] <Riddell> ScottK: how hard is it to make new images for kubuntu active?
[14:00] <rbelem> Riddell, i was using a linaro tool to build images
[14:01] <Riddell> rbelem: I didn't know you have built images, what's on them?
[14:02] <Riddell> it shouldn't be hard to adapt the kubuntu-mobile bits to be kubuntu-active but I don't know if we have enough manpower to do it by thursday or to follow it through after that
[14:02] <rbelem> Riddell, just the basics based on kubuntu seed
[14:02] <rbelem> Riddell, i think i can do
[14:03] <rbelem> Riddell, it will not be perfect but we can improve later
[14:16]  * Riddell grumbles as audio stops working on his laptop
[14:17] <Riddell> ah, speakers not turned on, good thing I didn't go with a gut reaction of blaming pulseaudio :)
[14:19] <shadeslayer_> hahaha
[14:20] <BluesKaj> Riddell,  yeah it's odd how after updtes/upgrades alsa mutes / turns the volume down on some soundcards 
[14:20] <Riddell> yofel: you still want to get bug 930384 and bug 930112 done and in main?
[14:21] <shadeslayer_> rbelem: might I suggest copyright helper from : git://anonscm.debian.org/users/modax/copyright-helper.git
[14:22] <rbelem> shadeslayer_, nice! thnx
[14:22] <shadeslayer_> rbelem: usage is something like : ./copyright-helper.pl -sc or ./copyright-helper.pl -l /path/to/folder
[14:23] <shadeslayer_> see the last few lines of the file for more args :)
[14:24] <rbelem> shadeslayer_, i'm writing one in python
[14:24] <shadeslayer_> heh :P
[14:24] <shadeslayer_> that works pretty good
[14:25] <rbelem> shadeslayer_, i will take a look to get some ideas from there :-D
[14:25] <shadeslayer_> :D
[14:26] <rbelem> shadeslayer_, i'm using nltk and will convert to dep5 or spdx
[14:27] <rbelem> shadeslayer_, and it will be able to update the debian/copyright
[14:28] <shadeslayer_> that's awesome 
[14:28] <shadeslayer_> would love something like that
[14:28] <rbelem> shadeslayer_, i think i will present it in the next uds
[14:29] <rbelem> shadeslayer_, i hate to edit the debian/copyright by hand
[14:29] <shadeslayer_> yeah same here
[14:30] <rbelem> shadeslayer_, i really hate, i just do not maintain more packages because of that
[14:30] <shadeslayer_> hehe
[14:31] <rbelem> soon we will not do that anymore :-D
[14:36] <BluesKaj> is there native kde gui firewall app ?
[14:36] <apachelogger> rbelem: you totally hijacked one of fabo's tasks :P
[14:36] <rbelem> apachelogger, :-)
[14:37] <BluesKaj> we have akde purist who doesn't want to use the cli  or gtk for his FW setup
[14:37] <apachelogger> BluesKaj: try kde-apps.org
[14:37] <rbelem> apachelogger, i talked to him some days ago
[14:37] <apachelogger> rbelem: did he shout at you? :P
[14:38] <rbelem> apachelogger, nope :-D
[14:38] <rbelem> heheeh
[14:38] <apachelogger> fabo: you should totally shout more :P
[14:38]  * apachelogger huggles everyone and goes back to work
[14:39] <rbelem> :-D
[14:49] <yofel> Riddell: yes, or we won't have gtk3 support by default
[14:52] <Riddell> yofel: ok then you need to poke mir people
[14:53] <Riddell> or I need to ignore mir and just promote them
[14:53] <Riddell> or kubuntu packages need demoted to universe
[14:53] <yofel> poke where?
[14:53] <Riddell> yofel: pitti and mterry for example on #ubuntu-devel
[14:54] <yofel> I'll poke pitti then
[14:57] <yofel> or mterry, I don't see pitti on ~ubuntu-mir
[15:06] <Riddell> oh maybe he moved on
[15:07] <apachelogger> now workig on unity-sru
[15:10] <Kurdistan> http://imgur.com/vK4bT <<--- error message that I managed to take.
[15:11] <apachelogger> Kurdistan: click the tab
[15:11] <apachelogger> that windows says nothing
[15:12] <Riddell> yay, calligra uploaded.  still needs optional build-deps reviewed and who knows if it'll build on ARM
[15:12] <yofel> \o/
[15:12] <Kurdistan> apachelogger, :) I did not had time. it crashed after that.
[15:13] <Kurdistan> :( this crashes with bluetooth usb when transfering files from/to laptop-phone makes me angry.
[15:13] <apachelogger> Riddell: we need to put optional build dep listing into our tooling efforts
[15:14] <Riddell> apachelogger: yes, a README.Kubuntu files with info on them would be a nice practice
[15:15] <Kurdistan> crashes/freezes
[15:15] <apachelogger> Riddell: that is not what I meant
[15:16] <apachelogger> Riddell: have a script to parse a build log for unmet dependencies
[15:16] <apachelogger> perhaps get upstream to make their output more machine readable
[15:16] <apachelogger> then have a file to blacklist deps we never want etc.
[15:16] <Riddell> apachelogger: hmm I disagree, we should automate everything that reliably can be but cmake output and the .deb testing at the end can't be sensibly automated
[15:17] <Riddell> yes if upstream had more machine readable output that might be possible
[15:17] <apachelogger> Riddell: it is not meant for automation
[15:17] <apachelogger> but help us be more efficient
[15:17] <apachelogger> and not miss deps
[15:17] <Riddell> if it's can't be reliably automated then a half-hearted automation attempt means we'd still end up relying on that and missing build-deps
[15:18] <apachelogger> Riddell: needs investigation
[15:19] <apachelogger> Riddell: for all we care, upstream could simply print ----- dep stats ----\n foo bar blah blah\n ----- dep end ------
[15:19] <Riddell> right
[15:19] <apachelogger> if that section is present -> take stuff between start and end, put it on a webpage somewhere, if not -> instruct packager to look at build log & provide link to log
[15:20] <apachelogger> Riddell: thing is, not only we need to deal with a larger amount of packages, but every distro does, so making upstream provide easier automatable sources totally makes sense
[15:21] <Riddell> yes
[15:36] <apachelogger> Riddell: review Kubuntu specific applications for accessibility, fix issues
[15:36] <apachelogger> that workitem needs fixing
[15:37] <apachelogger> it doesn't really say anything
[15:37] <apachelogger> it might as well be 'review kubuntu specific applications for stuff and fix issues with that stuff'
[15:43] <Riddell> apachelogger: well check if qt at spi works would be the first step
[15:43] <Riddell> and upstream seem to be doing the other step which is review applications
[15:47] <apachelogger> Riddell: so the WI is 'check if qt-at-spi is working with our applications'?
[15:56] <Riddell> apachelogger: yes
[15:56] <Riddell> well it should be two
[15:56] <Riddell> check if qt-at-spi is working
[15:56] <Riddell> and check is the applications actually expose useful stuff on at-spi so apps are usable by blind people etc
[15:57] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: not seeing my ping on MSN?
[15:57] <shadeslayer_> nope
[15:57] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: can you see me online?
[15:57] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: yes and I get your ping.  I'm on kopete now.
[15:58] <shadeslayer_> hmm
[15:58] <shadeslayer_> weird
[15:59] <yofel> oh right
[15:59]  * yofel updates telepathy
[15:59] <shadeslayer_> brb, gotta call someone
[16:01] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: deleted my gtalk account to telepathy, pinging on msn
[16:01] <shadeslayer_> ok
[16:01] <Riddell> yofel: are you on msn?
[16:01] <yofel> nope, ICQ and jabber
[16:01] <Riddell> who's on MSN to test if it works with me?
[16:01] <Riddell> oh foo, calligra failed on arm
[16:03] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: am trying to ping you on msn, let me know if it gets through once you've done your call
[16:03] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: nothing :P
[16:03] <shadeslayer_> I can see you online
[16:03] <Riddell> hmm, so it is worse than kopete at msn
[16:03] <shadeslayer_> I keep getting  (E-mail Address Not Verified) is Available
[16:04] <shadeslayer_> there we go
[16:05] <Riddell> ok I'm undecided if it is better or worse than kopete
[16:05] <Riddell> !testers
[16:05] <Riddell> Tm_T: can you add em to that?
[16:05] <Riddell> testers needed for kde-telepathy
[16:06] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: anything needing done before I upload the telepathy packages?
[16:07] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: yeah, the meta kde package has to be altered a bit
[16:07] <Riddell> oh one downside is it uses crappy kde notifications for everything instead of message indicator
[16:09] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: are you able to make that meta-kde-telepathy change today?
[16:09] <shadeslayer_> sure
[16:09] <shadeslayer_> I'll upload it to bzr
[16:10] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: oh is everything in bzr packaging wise?
[16:10] <shadeslayer_> nope, I can do that as well
[16:10] <shadeslayer_> I was planning on doing that tonight
[16:10] <shadeslayer_> makes it easier to upload stuff :)
[16:10] <Riddell> no rush, that doesn't block uploading
[16:11] <shadeslayer_> ok
[16:11] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: how's the licencing for the upstream tars?
[16:11] <shadeslayer_> libraries are under LGPL2
[16:11] <Riddell> dantti: kde bug 277640 shows a problem with printing via cups interface, ubuntu has different permissions from other distros
[16:11] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: I mean do all the files have nice licencing headers and COPYING files etc?
[16:12] <shadeslayer_> ah yes
[16:12] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: there's one small licensing issue that's on going with one of the Adium themes though
[16:12] <dantti> Riddell: I know that was why I first started to write printe-manager :P I was using Debian at that time..
[16:12] <shadeslayer_> http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-telepathy/2012-February/005432.html
[16:13] <dantti> Riddell: fedora runs that as root
[16:13] <apachelogger> Riddell: fixd
[16:13] <dantti> Riddell: but why are you telling me?
[16:14] <Riddell> apachelogger: why?
[16:14] <apachelogger> Riddell: because the previous WI was crap :P
[16:14] <apachelogger> dantti: that entirely reminds me that we wanted to make that cpp, no? like you wanted to make it and I was talking alot ;)
[16:14] <Riddell> dantti: just incase you come across it with printer-manager at some point.  I have no motivation to fix it for s-c-p-k because as far as I can tell it doesn't affect kubuntu
[16:15] <Riddell> apachelogger: oh thanks
[16:15] <Riddell> dantti: you don't want to just take over maintainership of s-c-p-k I take it?  not a python fan?
[16:16] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: so, how come you did not notice the license problems?
[16:16] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: I came to know about it only yesterday
[16:16] <dantti> Riddell: yes, I don't, but really after p-m is working I believe you will drop your maintainership too...
[16:16] <shadeslayer_> when I was going through the backlog of email
[16:17] <apachelogger> but you packaged kt, no?
[16:17] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: Didn't read the mailing list recently due to large amounts of work
[16:17] <apachelogger> dantti: do you have a wiki page for p-m? what needs doing and whatnot
[16:17] <dantti> apachelogger: no, but the list is rather small but not very easy
[16:18] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: my point is ... since you packaged ktp you should have noticed the problems through copyright creation, no?
[16:18] <Riddell> dantti: yes
[16:18] <apachelogger> dantti: it helps a lot to document things :)
[16:18] <dantti> apachelogger: I'm currently refactoring the 2y old code into something really simpler
[16:18] <shadeslayer_> ah
[16:18] <apachelogger> mhhh
[16:18] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: true, seems like I missed that script
[16:18] <apachelogger> <3 refactoring
[16:18] <apachelogger> what I also heart is releases :)
[16:18] <dantti> apachelogger: it has a README with most missing thing :P
[16:18] <shadeslayer_> sec
[16:19] <apachelogger> dantti: dont mind if I move that to a wiki :P
[16:19] <dantti> apachelogger: after I change the core thing (that talks to cups)
[16:19] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: what script?
[16:19] <apachelogger> dantti: ok
[16:19] <shadeslayer_> s/script/HTML file/
[16:19] <kubotu> shadeslayer_: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
[16:19] <dantti> apachelogger: no if you have time pls do, I'm with a bunch of stuff aready on my todo :P
[16:20] <apachelogger> I don't have time in particular, I can however try to find a minion
[16:20] <apachelogger> don't count on it though
[16:20]  * apachelogger is rather bad at finding minions these days
[16:20] <apachelogger> mostly because I am mean and grumpy and ask why licensing issues were not noticed
[16:20] <apachelogger> on that note
[16:20] <dantti> apachelogger: so why did I decided to revive that thing? last week I thought to myself why not to write a plasmoid for the taks, would just be awesome, and after that I thought wow a KIO would even rock
[16:20] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: so, any guesses on why that happened?
[16:21] <apachelogger> dantti: a KIO for printing? :O
[16:21] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: missed it by chance? 
[16:21] <apachelogger> u wicked :D
[16:21] <dantti> imagine dolphin cups://printers/my_laser/1-job
[16:21] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: you are making this too easy :P
[16:21] <shadeslayer_> :P
[16:21] <apachelogger> Riddell: we also should try to detect license issues
[16:21] <dantti> you delete the file the job is gone...
[16:21] <apachelogger> not entirely sure on the heuristics though
[16:22] <apachelogger> perhaps something like grep over source for $common_license ... see if copyright lists that license
[16:22] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: I'm like trying to talk to 4-5 people at once, coding and emailing stuff for a exam on the 17th all at the same time
[16:22] <apachelogger> that is a close enough check I suppose
[16:22] <dantti> apachelogger: or even cooler you click on a job and you can see the .ps preview...
[16:22] <apachelogger> dantti: fancy :D
[16:23] <Riddell> apachelogger: kde has something for that no?  krazy?  checking for correct COPYING etc files might be an idea
[16:23] <dantti> apachelogger: so, with that maybe I get some attantion to the missing thing that is choose best ppd for a new printer
[16:23] <Riddell> apachelogger: but it can't be automated completely
[16:23] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: I am not asking you to justify, I am merely interested in how to try to prevent these things by improving our tools :)
[16:23] <Riddell> dantti: is dolphin the best interface to use for printers?
[16:23] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: ah right, well ... copyright, I have *no* idea
[16:23] <apachelogger> Riddell: no, it also is a case of trying-to-help packager
[16:24] <apachelogger> at best it can help detect slip ups
[16:24] <shadeslayer_> copyright is one of those gray areas in packaging
[16:24] <dantti> Riddell: no, but it is cool enough for geeks
[16:24] <shadeslayer_> it's like the lowest priority for me when getting a release out
[16:24] <apachelogger> at worst it doesn't do nothing for us
[16:24] <dantti> Riddell: it's just an option
[16:25] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: low prio != justification for getting onself into legal trouble though, so we should avoid that very much
[16:25] <apachelogger> Riddell: it certainly facilitates ui/core separation, which in this day and age is a good thing IMHO :)
[16:26] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: I agree, but I really don't have the slightest idea as to what can be done to fix it
[16:26] <apachelogger> perhaps aaron wants to have an own printer UI for spark ^^
[16:26] <shadeslayer_> I have ideas for automating packaging etc
[16:26] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: I told jr my idea already :P
[16:26] <shadeslayer_> but they don't include anything for copyright
[16:26] <shadeslayer_> ok
[16:26] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: it's not about packaging as such, but QA of the packaging
[16:27] <shadeslayer_> right
[16:27] <apachelogger> which is quite frankly the more complicated topic
[16:27] <apachelogger> unless you people want to replicate OBS and start writing scripts that introduce dependency tree based building
[16:27] <shadeslayer_> well, we could learn by example? how does opensuse, or any other distro do it?
[16:27] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: who is George Kiagia dakis?  has he been active recently?
[16:27] <apachelogger> FWIW, I would consider this very useful as that way you can indeed have one script to do an entire bundle build ^^
[16:28] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: yep
[16:28] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: opensuse is entirely special
[16:28] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: infact he just fixed some stuff in ktp integration module :D
[16:28] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: how?
[16:28] <apachelogger> OBS makes a lot of things a lot less painful
[16:28] <shadeslayer_> like?
[16:28] <apachelogger> dep tracking
[16:28] <shadeslayer_> I'm more interested in copyright stuff
[16:28] <apachelogger> plus they have semi-rolling snapshot building via OBS
[16:28] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: so should I keep him as the maintainer in XSBC-Original-Maintainer for the packages?
[16:28] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: yes
[16:28] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: they do not care about copyright :P
[16:28] <apachelogger> simple as that
[16:28] <shadeslayer_> sigh
[16:29] <apachelogger> well
[16:29] <apachelogger> not all that much anyway
[16:29] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: he will update the packaging for debian soonish as well btw
[16:29] <apachelogger> (all of rpm for that matter)
[16:30] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: remind me again why debian cares about copyright?
[16:30] <Riddell> ?  because they're debian?  same reason why FSF cares about copyright
[16:30] <apachelogger> s/copyright/licenses
[16:31] <apachelogger> if we do not take floss licenses seroius, how can we expect anyone else to do so?
[16:31]  * shadeslayer_ hates opensuse now
[16:31] <apachelogger> if I were a company I would eat up all the gpl code and put it in my binary product
[16:31] <shadeslayer_> they have it easy I tell you
[16:31]  * Riddell still has updates to the KDE licencing policy for fonts and web apps to take care of now that RMS has stopped e-mailing him
[16:31] <shadeslayer_> hah :D
[16:31] <apachelogger> then if someone got a problme with that I'd argue that the source distributors themselfs take their license as a joke
[16:36] <CIA-42> [meta-kde-telepathy-0.3.0] Rohan Garg * 1 * (8 files in 3 dirs) Initial packaging
[16:37] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: ktp-accounts-kcm_0.3.0-0ubuntu1_source.changes ready to upload, shall I do this?
[16:37] <shadeslayer_> :D
[16:37] <shadeslayer_> Yes!
[16:37] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: https://code.launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+junk/ubuntu
[16:39] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: lovely, uploading...
[16:40] <CIA-42> [meta-kde-telepathy-0.3.0] Rohan Garg * 2 * debian/control Fix Maintainer and XSBC-Original-Maintainer fields
[16:40] <shadeslayer_> \o/
[16:40] <shadeslayer_> oh
[16:40] <Riddell> uh oh
[16:40] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: best to have started with ktp-common-internals
[16:40] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: hmm?
[16:40] <Riddell> oh I'm just going alphabetically, they'll get stuck in new anyway
[16:40] <shadeslayer_> ah heh :D
[16:56] <yofel> re, phone call
[17:00] <yofel> shadeslayer_: do I need to actually reboot to get telepathy integration manager working?
[17:00] <shadeslayer_> don't think so
[17:01] <yofel> hm
[17:01] <yofel> systemsettings(2408) KDEDConfig::getServiceStatus: Could not relate module  "kded_ktp_integration_module"
[17:01] <shadeslayer_> yofel: it's actually running
[17:01] <yofel> kded(1711)/kdecore (services) KServiceFactory::findServiceByDesktopPath: "kded/ktp_integration_module.desktop" not found
[17:01] <shadeslayer_> yeah
[17:01] <shadeslayer_> yofel: try this in a console : qdbus org.kde.kded | grep ktp
[17:01] <shadeslayer_> I'll add the patch to the integration packaging
[17:01] <yofel> ok, it is running indeed
[17:02] <yofel> and I still have no panel icon
[17:02] <shadeslayer_> wouldn't have the foggiest idea
[17:02] <shadeslayer_> yofel: https://projects.kde.org/projects/extragear/network/telepathy/ktp-kded-module/repository/revisions/0f4e68c2644995a6ffeacfda458da2417c0929bf/diff/kded_ktp_integration_module.desktop fixes it
[17:03] <yofel> well, rign now, you'll get a -1 from me to replace kopete with that
[17:03] <yofel> s/rign/right/
[17:03] <kubotu> yofel meant: "well, right now, you'll get a -1 from me to replace kopete with that"
[17:03] <shadeslayer_> yeah, idk why you have so many issues
[17:03] <shadeslayer_> Riddell had issues with just MSN, and that too got resolved after a couple of minutes
[17:03] <yofel> I'll try it in a VM later when I have time to see if a clean setup help
[17:03] <yofel> s
[17:04] <shadeslayer_> yofel: #kde-telepathy might be able to help with the icon issue
[17:04] <Riddell> I had some sort of panel icon pop up, and it's heavy on the notifications
[17:04] <shadeslayer_> heh yeah :D
[17:18] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: these packages have .install files even when not needed
[17:18] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: just following upstream debian
[17:18] <Riddell> pass on to upstream debian that having a .install file with just usr/* in it is pointless :)
[17:18] <shadeslayer_> we need them in some cases, but apachelogger did mention this
[17:18] <shadeslayer_> yeah :)
[17:19] <Riddell> upstream debian is George K ?
[17:19] <shadeslayer_> yeah
[17:20] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: but the packages aren't in unstable or experimental yet.  does he host them somewhere?
[17:20] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: uh yeah, they're not released yet, they're in a git repo tho
[17:20] <shadeslayer_> sec
[17:20] <Riddell> right
[17:21] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-kde/kde-extras/kde-telepathy/ktp-common-internals.git;a=summary
[17:23] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: have you uploaded the integration module?
[17:23] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: I don't think so
[17:24] <shadeslayer_> okay, I just uploaded a new build with a patch
[17:24] <yuriy> I updated and rebooted and my display settings were restored this time :)
[17:24] <Riddell> yuriy: yay, what did you fix?
[17:25] <shadeslayer_> off to study I am
[17:25] <shadeslayer_> cya
[17:26] <Riddell> good luck
[17:26] <yuriy> Riddell: I didn't do anything, I figured one of you did
[17:26] <yuriy> Riddell: how are you btw? I hope things are getting better since the accident
[17:26] <Riddell> hmm, not I (who probably broke it in the first place)
[17:27] <Riddell> yuriy: feeling better today thanks (now I'm a canoe polo champion). brain appointment tomorrow but I think they'll just say "you're doing fine, carry on"
[17:28] <yuriy> good to hear
[17:29] <Riddell> and I have a sparkly eye patch now, I expect that helps a lot
[17:30] <Riddell> would this make a good hackergotchi for planet? http://www.flickr.com/photos/jriddell/6868957819
[17:30] <Riddell> yuriy: I have a systray icon from telepathy-kde
[17:31] <Riddell> I haven't found a reason why telepathy-kde wouldn't be a good candidate for this release yet
[17:32] <apachelogger> Riddell: I'd go with a picture from the other side, otherwise the eye patch might be unrecognisable
[17:32] <yuriy> I'm gonna guess that last one is for yofel
[17:32] <yofel> well, now it seems the missing incon in the *panel* is the only issue I have left. So until I figure that out +0 from me
[17:32] <apachelogger> oh, foo, I just used en_gb spelling
[17:33] <apachelogger> next thing you know i'll be using british spelling in code and then I get bug reports
[17:33] <apachelogger> oh noes :(
[17:33] <yofel> ah, Icon works in systray
[17:33] <yofel> s/+0/+1/
[17:33] <Riddell> yuriy: it says it's from KDE daemon and only appears when a new chat starts
[17:34] <Riddell> so it could be improved
[17:34] <Riddell> but upstream are quite active currently, maybe they can even be convinced to do message indicator support
[17:34] <Riddell> any other kde-telepathy testers got an opinion?
[17:35] <shadeslayer_> facebook just went into a reload loop on rekonq
[17:36] <Riddell> mm, so kde-telepathy wins over rekonq :)
[17:37] <shadeslayer_> heh for now yes :P
[17:37] <Riddell> I had a rekonq crash today, was doing fine until that
[17:38] <yofel> the *only* crashes I had so far were qtwebkit crashes, mostly by opening a site that had flash somewhere on the page
[17:40] <Riddell> doesn't surprise me
[17:41] <Riddell> qtwebkit 1 is now unmaintained and will go into "compatibility add-on" mode for Qt 5
[17:41] <Riddell> and webkitkde stuff will need a complete require to use qtwebkit from qt 5
[17:42] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: did you get a maintainer for pornon in webkit yet?
[17:42] <apachelogger> no
[17:42] <shadeslayer_> hmm ...
[18:02] <tazz> kde-telepathy gtalk / file transfer works well.
[18:03] <Riddell> tazz: can you talk to me?
[18:03] <Riddell> riddell@gmail
[18:03] <tazz> hold on, let me add you.
[18:04] <Riddell> yofel: there's also a plasma widget although it seems to be just for status updates not message indicating
[18:08] <schnelle> guys, telephaty-kde 03 is BETA release:  http://martys.typepad.com/blog/2012/01/kde-telepathy-03-ninja-released-first-beta.html
[18:09] <schnelle> i don't think that beta release are good thing for default applications
[18:09] <schnelle> *releases
[18:09] <Riddell> schnelle: no but neither are unmaintained apps so it's a choice between two non-ideal candidates
[18:09] <schnelle> especially for lts
[18:10] <apachelogger> at least with the unmaintained app we know what quality/issues to expect
[18:11] <Riddell> apachelogger: yes
[18:11] <Riddell> which is why we need to find out what quality/issues to expect from kde-telepathy and compare them
[18:11] <apachelogger> that is: they mostly have been there forever so there is no reason why suddenly they would be super important as to justify swapping around bad software :)
[18:11] <Riddell> so far I've found it works better for modern messaging methods like facebook and gmail
[18:12] <Riddell> because kopete doesn't have a way for non-geek users to use facebook and gmail
[18:12]  * apachelogger points out that only geeks use a desktop client to use those two services :)
[18:12] <Riddell> aye
[18:12] <apachelogger> if it were highly integrated into the system, which is what I expect from plasma active, it is a different story of couse
[18:13] <apachelogger> anyhow, gotta get out of here or nokia will never let me go ^^
[18:15] <Riddell> it is integrated into kde in every way, it's not a monolithic app like kopete
[18:15] <yofel> Riddell: did you get any request from me on gmail?
[18:16] <Riddell> yofel: nope
[18:17] <Riddell> but you have appeared in my contacts list
[18:17] <Riddell> pinging you
[18:17] <Riddell> yofel: can you see my messages?
[18:17] <yofel> *headdesk*
[18:17] <yofel> yeah
[18:18] <yofel> but
[18:18] <yofel> Delivery of the message "well, authorization to see the other person's status" failed because it was too long
[18:18] <Riddell> hmm
[18:18] <yofel> got that with shadeslayer_ too. And happens only with gmail
[18:18] <shadeslayer_> 0.o
[18:18] <yofel> jabber works, icq works, facebook works
[18:18] <shadeslayer_> yahoo works
[18:18] <shadeslayer_> logged into yahoo after forever
[18:19] <shadeslayer_> even forgot my password
[18:19] <Riddell> so bugs yes, and it's maintained so they might get fixed before we release.  kopete has bugs which won't get fixed
[18:19] <Riddell> I'm tempted to put it onto the kubuntu CDs and we can demote if before release if we find critical bugs that won't get fixed in time
[18:20] <tazz> Riddell, did you get a request from me ?
[18:21] <Riddell> tazz: no it doesn't seem to do requests
[18:21] <Riddell> tazz: what's your e-mail?
[18:21] <tazz> gaurav.p.chaturvedi@gmail
[18:21] <Riddell> pinging
[18:21] <Riddell> you did appear in my contacts
[18:22] <Riddell> tazz: so what was your request?
[18:23] <tazz> ah ok.. i can see you here now.
[18:23] <Riddell> anyone tried bonjour?
[18:24] <Riddell> needs a mac to do the real test :)
[18:25] <Riddell> tazz: can you send me a file?
[18:25] <tazz> Riddell, nope
[18:25] <Riddell> tazz: because the protocol doesn't support it?
[18:25]  * tazz points to shadeslayer_ he uses a mac.
[18:25] <shadeslayer_> yeah
[18:26] <tazz> Riddell, the button for sharing files is disabled.
[18:26] <shadeslayer_> Never used bonjour though
[18:26] <Riddell> fair enough
[18:26]  * tazz was able to send shadeslayer_ a file though.
[18:26] <shadeslayer_> want me to reboot?
[18:26] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: can you run os X and kubuntu at the same time?
[18:26] <shadeslayer_> nope
[18:26] <shadeslayer_> :P
[18:26] <shadeslayer_> No VM's etc
[18:26] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: bonjour only works on a local network, that's the point of it
[18:26] <shadeslayer_> ah
[18:26] <shadeslayer_> derp
[18:26] <shadeslayer_> well
[18:27] <shadeslayer_> I do have more devices
[18:27] <shadeslayer_> I'll look if android has bonjour stuff
[18:27] <Riddell> good idea, dunno what it'll be called though, bonjour is a trademark of apple
[18:27] <Riddell> tazz: by the way I have a very important job for you
[18:27] <rbelem> shadeslayer_, Riddell, it should work if you use bridge
[18:27] <shadeslayer_> local XMPP?
[18:27] <tazz> Riddell, yes?
[18:27] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: something like that
[18:27] <shadeslayer_> or something like that
[18:27] <Riddell> tazz: look out for this film being released and help me download it when it is http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1706317/
[18:28] <Riddell> it's filmed where I go canoeing lots, and you remind me of it every time I  see your nick :)
[18:29] <tazz> ah!
[18:29] <shadeslayer_> hmm
[18:29] <shadeslayer_> what if
[18:29] <shadeslayer_> I install Empathy
[18:29] <shadeslayer_> and use Bonjour services on that?
[18:29] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: that might work
[18:29] <Riddell> or it might not
[18:29] <shadeslayer_> heh
[18:30] <Riddell> it'll use the same telepathy daemon if they're both on the same system
[18:30] <Riddell> so still needs two computers
[18:30] <Riddell> or VMs etc
[18:30] <shadeslayer_> any CLI bonjour IM clients?
[18:30] <shadeslayer_> :P
[18:31] <Riddell> I fear not
[18:31] <Riddell> but kopete doesn't have bonjour at all so it can't be worse at it than kopete is
[18:31] <Riddell> main issue is new contact requests I think
[18:32] <shadeslayer_> oh
[18:32] <yofel> shadeslayer_: does the 'Help' button on the screen where you select the protocol when adding a new account work for you?
[18:32] <shadeslayer_> heh
[18:32] <shadeslayer_> nop
[18:32] <shadeslayer_> *nope
[18:32]  * yofel files bug
[18:32] <shadeslayer_> seems someone forgot to write documentation :P
[18:32] <shadeslayer_> good grief
[18:32] <Riddell> it's a kcm, that button will be there by default whether or no there's docs
[18:32] <shadeslayer_> krdc is in git
[18:32] <shadeslayer_> Riddell: you can override it iirc
[18:32] <yofel> shouldn't it still open khelpcenter with a missing page?
[18:32] <Riddell> yes
[18:33] <shadeslayer_> I did it for my KCM
[18:33] <Riddell> yofel: maybe
[18:33]  * yofel files bug anyway
[18:34] <Riddell> I'm sure we can find more important bugs than that! :)
[18:36] <schnelle> I don't don't know what I did but I just crashed it :)
[18:42] <yofel> well, 2 bugs added so far
[18:45]  * yofel added himself to g+
[18:47] <Riddell> yofel: a social network I'm yet to find any desire or need for
[18:47] <yofel> well, same how I feel about fb - still have an account there
[18:48] <yofel> ah wait - fb does have a use, convenient birday reminder
[18:48] <yofel> *birthday
[18:48] <shadeslayer_> indeed ^
[18:48] <shadeslayer_> something G+ doesn't do yet ;)
[18:49] <shadeslayer_> claydoh: good point about new releases
[18:50] <schnelle> Riddell, yofel, all: I know how to crash it! :)
[18:50] <claydoh> shadeslayer_: it is probably the bigger concern
[18:50] <yofel> schnelle: backtrace?
[18:51] <claydoh> other than some  usability niggles
[18:51]  * claydoh hearts it
[18:51] <shadeslayer_> :D
[18:51] <shadeslayer_> claydoh: usability niggles like? 
[18:51] <claydoh> apachelogger: as to desktop clients, i disagree
[18:52] <Riddell> claydoh: using beta software is risky but so is using unmaintained software
[18:52]  * shadeslayer_ would propose we have a exception for 0.4
[18:52] <Riddell> worst case telepathy users can use backports, kopete users won't ever get fixes
[18:52] <claydoh> shadeslayer_: if you left-click the presesnce applet it does not bring up the contact list, as most would assume
[18:52] <shadeslayer_> claydoh: actually ... you can configure that
[18:52] <Riddell> shadeslayer_: we can update until the end of april
[18:52] <shadeslayer_> right click
[18:52] <shadeslayer_> :D
[18:52] <ScottK> Riddell: Making new images isn't very hard if you have someone to tell you the spots you have to touch.  
[18:52] <claydoh> apachelogger: all, and I mean all my yahoo friends give me a hard time for using my phone for that
[18:53]  * ScottK doesn't recall them all.
[18:53] <Riddell> claydoh: I don't propose adding the presence applet to the panel, it's not very useful yet
[18:53] <schnelle> right click on part of the window where you set "away, busy" etc... and then left click anywhere out of window (on desktop or on quassel...), and bang! crash!
[18:53] <schnelle> can anyone confirm?
[18:53] <Riddell> ScottK: see backscroll in #u-release, colin doesn't remember them all either :)
[18:54] <claydoh> schnelle:  no
[18:54] <shadeslayer_> schnelle: in the contact list?
[18:54] <Riddell> but it should be possible to do a kubuntu-active
[18:54] <schnelle> yes
[18:54] <ScottK> Riddell: I'd say recycle the kubuntu-mobile image for it for now and we can rename it later.
[18:54] <shadeslayer_> oh yess
[18:54] <shadeslayer_> schnelle: reproducable 
[18:54] <Riddell> ScottK: yes
[18:55] <BluesKaj> BBL, ..errands 
[18:55] <claydoh> ok schnelle i did get it
[18:55] <schnelle> i have presence widget in system tray if that matters...
[18:55] <claydoh> so where does the contact list "go"when you close it? ypu have to manually open it again?
[18:56] <schnelle> for me, the biggest minus for telepathy is wierd interface
[18:56] <schnelle> you cannot close it/open it to systray
[18:57] <schnelle> you have to know that you need "contact list telepathy" if you want to use it as messenger... very wierd for me
[18:57] <claydoh> yes, that is the usability issue
[18:57] <claydoh> but I do like it overall
[18:58] <schnelle> claydoh: i think you have to turn on "presence" widget thing in system tray
[18:58] <claydoh> tho if it is still running in tha vbackground it still works :)
[18:58] <claydoh> schnelle: yes, already there, nad confugured
[18:59] <claydoh> but facebook/gtalk easy to set up is a good plus
[19:00] <ScottK> Does KDE telepathy use akonadi or nepomuk?
[19:01] <Riddell> good question, I'll forward upstream
[19:01] <yofel> it doesn't use nepomuk I think, as I've got that disabled and it still works
[19:05] <schnelle> can anybody tell me how to close it? (don't tell me go to system monitor :P )
[19:07] <Riddell> ScottK: 19:06 < d_ed> right now, no.
[19:07] <shadeslayer_> schnelle: how to close telepathy kde?
[19:07] <ScottK> thanks
[19:07] <d_ed> shadeslayer_: log out
[19:07] <ScottK> Are there oneiruc packages?
[19:07] <schnelle> shadeslayer_: i don't know :)
[19:07] <shadeslayer_> no no no
[19:08] <shadeslayer_> d_ed: I know that :P
[19:08] <Riddell> ScottK: should be in the same ~kde-telepathy PPA
[19:08] <shadeslayer_> this is all messed up now :P
[19:08] <ScottK> OK.  will try in a bit
[19:08]  * claydoh almosr never logs out of im
[19:08] <claydoh> hmm
[19:08] <shadeslayer_> schnelle: the idea behind telepathy is to integrate with the entire desktop
[19:08] <shadeslayer_> not just IM
[19:10] <Riddell> telepathy should let you transport arbitrary data over IM, that's why krdc wants to use it
[19:10] <shadeslayer_> yep
[19:15] <schnelle> well, i think that 99.9% of people just want to use msn for example and don't care about integration with the rest of desktop
[19:15] <Riddell> yeah, until they want to share a file
[19:15] <schnelle> for me this alpha/beta telepathy is not ready. i vote for kopete :)
[19:15] <apachelogger> Riddell: kopete did not get any riskier by the appearance of beta software :P
[19:15] <schnelle> hava a nice evening, i have to learn now :)
[19:15] <d_ed> schnelle: have you used it?
[19:15] <schnelle> bye
[19:15] <Riddell> schnelle: what makes it not ready?  just the label or something that's actually missing?
[19:15] <apachelogger> if it were a serious concern we'd have looked into empathy or pidgin or something
[19:16] <apachelogger> claydoh: pardon?
[19:16] <Riddell> apachelogger: but this opens up a new option to get rid of unmaintained software which is a risky thing to have on an LTS
[19:16] <apachelogger> claydoh: yahoo is not a new supreme social im thing :P
[19:16] <claydoh> apachelogger: you said only geeks stil use a desktop client
[19:16] <apachelogger> Riddell: yes, lts is not for options :P
[19:17] <apachelogger> so telepathy is gambling, kopete is not, kopete it is :P
[19:17] <apachelogger> claydoh: for services such as google talk and facebook
[19:17] <Riddell> apachelogger: kopete is gambling, it's bitrotting and won't be fixed
[19:17] <apachelogger> claydoh: because they both have excellent online clients and are part of a larger offering
[19:18] <Riddell> kde telepathy will only get better before april and offers great new stuff for users
[19:18] <apachelogger> Riddell: there is nothing to bitrot in a lts release!?
[19:18] <Riddell> apachelogger: stuff will bitrot, but avoiding stuff that has already been bitrotting for years makes a better start
[19:19] <Riddell> d_ed: what do you make of this? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2012-February/005817.html
[19:19] <apachelogger> bitrotting appears when the envrionment changes, and stable release envrionment should not change
[19:20] <Riddell> apachelogger: have you heard about networks?
[19:20] <d_ed> he's using an outdated version of telepathy-gabble that crashes
[19:20] <Riddell> the environment is MSN etc servers
[19:20] <apachelogger> TCP/IP has not changed in 30000 years :P
[19:20] <apachelogger> Riddell: msn is outsourced to libmsn, which is maintained
[19:20] <d_ed> only bug I know about which causes this is having a huuuuuuge avatar
[19:20] <apachelogger> jabber did not change in 1000 years
[19:20] <apachelogger> so the only thing that could potential break is icq
[19:21] <apachelogger> which is not used anyway :P
[19:21] <apachelogger> plus they don't have much of a history to break stuff except for the occasional protocl version bump for no good reason
[19:21] <Riddell> d_ed: we have telepathy-gabble 0.15.3-1ubuntu1 on precise (development ubuntu), maybe he's on released ubuntu and that's why he has a crash
[19:22] <Riddell> apachelogger: jabber needs change all the time as google and facebook etc use it, it needs decent UI to be usable
[19:22] <apachelogger> bringing me back to my point that no one uses google or facebook in a client other than their native envrionments
[19:23] <d_ed> well that's opinionated. 
[19:24] <Riddell> apachelogger: and I suspect it's not true but we have nothing to base that on
[19:24] <Riddell> d_ed: got a reply to this? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2012-February/005819.html
[19:24] <d_ed> we do not currently integrate.
[19:24] <d_ed> (with message indicator)
[19:25] <debfx> the problem with ktp I see is that upstream probably doesn't have a stable branch (?) so we won't be able to easily pull bugfixes
[19:25] <Riddell> d_ed: but with AIM?
[19:26] <Riddell> d_ed: and could you be persuaded to integrate with message integrator?
[19:26] <d_ed> sure. 
[19:27] <Riddell> d_ed: sure to which?
[19:28] <d_ed> we could persuaded.
[19:28] <d_ed> we don't have OTR
[19:28] <d_ed> and cannot in the really near future
[19:30] <d_ed> I don't know about AIM.
[19:30] <d_ed> It's in the list...
[19:31] <Riddell> he says OTR is the kopete plugin for AIM, so if telepathy does AIM that should be sorted
[19:31] <Riddell> and "we could persuaded" proves my case that telepathy-kde is awesome upstream :)
[19:32] <d_ed> no, OTR = off the record
[19:32] <d_ed> it's encryption
[19:34] <d_ed> it's up to you, I think precise + 1 should definitely have us.
[19:34] <d_ed> I can try and be 1.0 by then (our otherwise 1.0)
[19:36] <Riddell> yes precise +1 for sure, but I'm still trying to decide about precise
[19:36] <Riddell> for now I don't see a good reason why not to go with kde-telepathy
[19:36] <claydoh> Riddell: Just Do It :D
[19:36] <d_ed> I think you should 0.3 is stable, we're even doign patch releases for it
[19:36] <d_ed> and maintaining it
[19:37] <Riddell> lovely
[19:38] <felimwhiteley> Riddell: gabble ver. 0.13.5-0ubuntu2
[19:40] <Riddell> felimwhiteley: aye precise is on 0.15.3-1ubuntu1
[19:41] <felimwhiteley> righto...
[19:41]  * felimwhiteley gets coat
[19:42] <schnelle> d_ed: crash: right click on part of the window where you set "away, busy" etc... and then left click anywhere out of window (on desktop or on quassel...), 
[19:43] <shadeslayer_> I haz backtrace for that
[19:43] <shadeslayer_> http://paste.kde.org/421790/
[19:44] <d_ed> that's pretty bad
[19:44] <d_ed> will be fixed in 0.3.1
[19:44] <Riddell> d_ed: more questions https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2012-February/005824.html
[19:44] <d_ed> we have no call. no skype
[19:45] <Riddell> d_ed: no voice at all?
[19:45] <Riddell> but there's buttons for it in the UI
[19:45] <d_ed> not in 0.3
[19:45] <d_ed> ah, we have it. Not perfect, so not released
[19:45] <Riddell> so Audio Call and Video Call buttons are there for future versions?
[19:45] <shadeslayer_> didn't we have a seprate ktp-call-ui repo?
[19:46] <d_ed> don't ship that
[19:46] <d_ed> but that's why they're there
[19:46] <shadeslayer_> yeah :)
[19:46] <claydoh> we have working voice in kopete?
[19:46] <d_ed> if you install the call ui they work
[19:46] <d_ed> but it's buggy
[19:46] <ScottK> Riddell: kopete doesn't need a plugin for AIM.  OTR is an encryption thingy add-on.
[19:46] <claydoh> or rather which protocol has voice support in Kpete
[19:46] <d_ed> we don't need a plugin for AIM.
[19:47] <ScottK> d_ed: So you support AIM, but not with OTR?
[19:47] <d_ed> yeah
[19:47] <d_ed> we support AIM, but no OTR anywhere.
[19:49] <shadeslayer_> for call we'll also need to package telepathy-yell
[19:49] <shadeslayer_> not in the repos so far I think
[19:50] <d_ed> yeah, and yell should not be packaged
[19:50] <shadeslayer_> but then again, that's for future releases
[19:50] <d_ed> yell is "the unstable repo"
[19:50] <shadeslayer_> :D
[19:50] <d_ed> not the "AV" repo. 
[19:52] <Riddell> what is AV repo?
[19:52] <Riddell> yofel: is kde bug 254430 the one you were thinking might be fixed?
[19:53] <d_ed> sorry, there isn't such a thing
[19:53] <d_ed> point is, don't package yell
[19:55] <asdaddd> Hello, I found a nasty bug : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-workspace/+bug/931645
[19:57] <endless123> hello everyone
[19:57] <endless123> where can give feed back for telepathy-kde?
[19:57] <Riddell> endless123: here is fine
[19:57] <Riddell> asdaddd: do you have reason to believe it's kubuntu specific?
[19:58] <asdaddd> Riddell: I have no way of knowing... 
[19:59] <Riddell> asdaddd: then we usually request you report it upstream in the first insance since we like to think we don't add many bugs ourselves
[20:01] <endless123> ok cool well I am trying it out on Kubuntu 11.10 with backports and the telepathy-kde team ppa enabled, nonetheless I am asking what kind of information you would like to know about it. Because all I can say is that it works fine, except for some error on the gmail account, but that could be me.  Other than that I see no problems and that is just me, but it looks real native in Kubuntu like its one of the family.
[20:05] <Riddell> endless123: we're wanting to find bugs and does it lack and useful features compared to kopete
[20:05] <Riddell> if it's got the same features and no worse bugs then we should go for it
[20:05] <ScottK> We've already established it doesn't have the same features.
[20:05] <Riddell> right, I'm just informing endless123 
[20:06] <ScottK> OK.
[20:06] <Riddell> but I'm still minded to put it on the CD before feature freeze keeping in mind we may well go back to kopete
[20:06] <ScottK> I really don't want us to do the Ubuntu desktop thing of switching to something kind of only half working for an LTS (think pulseaudio by default in Hardy).
[20:06] <Riddell> yes I totally agree
[20:07] <ScottK> I don't mind having them both on for now.
[20:07] <ScottK> That may even be the right answer as I'd guess older stuff like AIM might not be a priority for them.
[20:07] <endless123> the only problem on my end is that the google talk keeps giving a error. Internal component error
[20:08] <endless123> upon trying to connect
[20:08] <endless123> using the default configurations
[20:09] <Riddell> ScottK: that's very un-ubuntu having two apps doing the same thing!
[20:09] <Riddell> endless123: on oneiric?
[20:09] <ScottK> Riddell: Except the point would be they don't do the same things well.
[20:10] <ScottK> Riddell: It's like in the KDE3 days we shipped Kopete and Konversation even though Kopete did IRC.
[20:10] <Riddell> ScottK: yes, which makes it a tricky choice but still one we should make and not shy away from
[20:10] <Riddell> it's like in the old days when I shipped juk and amaraok :)
[20:10] <endless123> Kubuntu Oneiric (backports and telepathy-kde ppa enable)
[20:10] <endless123> Oneiric
[20:13] <Riddell> endless123: that has an old version of telepathy-gabble which may well affect your gtalk usage
[20:14] <endless123> ok then it would be best to test it using a virtual machine running Kubuntu 12.04 instead?
[20:14] <Riddell> endless123: sure if you can
[20:15] <endless123> OK I will give information later I need to set up the virtual machine until then. Good day everyone
[20:39] <yofel> Riddell: no, haven't seen that one yet
[20:42] <Riddell> rbelem: new plasma-mobile/active uploaded!
[20:43] <rbelem> Riddell, awesome
[20:43] <rbelem> Riddell, thanks
[20:43] <rbelem> Riddell, i will finish the other packages then i will ping you
[20:44] <Riddell> rbelem: what are the other packages?
[20:44] <rbelem> Riddell, the others that are in the kubuntu-active ppa
[20:45] <rbelem> Riddell, share-like-connect is almost ready
[20:45] <yofel> shadeslayer: did you report the telepathy crash? http://paste.kde.org/421832
[20:45] <shadeslayer> nope
[20:45] <rbelem> Riddell, the other ones needs updating
[20:45]  * shadeslayer was pulled into another discussion
[20:46] <Riddell> rbelem: which other ones?
[20:46] <shadeslayer> yofel: doing it now
[20:46] <yofel> d_ed: when I have the contact list open, right click on the status, then left click outside the window I get this: http://paste.kde.org/421832
[20:47] <d_ed> I know i'm on it.  Related - if anyone knows how QEvent::Private can be null let me know!
[20:48] <d_ed> oh, I know how
[20:48] <d_ed> maybe...
[20:48] <rbelem> Riddell, contour, declarative-plasmoids and kde-artwork-active
[20:48] <shadeslayer> d_ed: kde bug 294020 for your viewing pleasure :D
[20:50] <rbelem> Riddell, lp:~kubuntu-active/declarative-plasmoids/active-packaging
[20:51] <rbelem> Riddell, lp:~kubuntu-active/ubuntu-seeds/kubuntu-active-seed
[20:52] <shadeslayer> Night everyone
[20:52] <rbelem> shadeslayer, gn
[23:28] <rbelem> Riddell, ping
[23:38] <Riddell> hi rbelem 
[23:39] <rbelem> Riddell, did you have time to take a look in the share-like-connect pkg?
[23:40] <Riddell> rbelem: oh no, I should have done
[23:40] <Riddell> will do tomorrow
[23:40] <Riddell> where is that from?
[23:40] <rbelem> Riddell, oki :-) so i will improve them all
[23:40] <rbelem> Riddell, kubuntu-active ppa