astraljavalen-1204: They seem to be related to the last revision, in which falktx mentions support being added for both Xfce and KDE menus.00:04
falktxlen-1204: I did my research there, that was the best method I could come up with that worked in most DEs (at least Gnome, XFCE and KDE)00:06
falktxthe old method only worked properly on Gnome00:06
falktxdidn't worked on XFCE and had issues with KDE00:06
len-1204Oh boy... Ok, Scott wanted some changes, I was going to try some.... Are we wooried about anything other than xfce still?00:07
falktxubuntustudio-menu package is installable in any DE00:22
falktxIt makes sense to make that it supports more than just xfce00:23
holsteinfalktx: i like where your head is at with that00:35
len-1204I figured... 00:43
len-1204Any idea which one is which?00:43
len-1204the menu files.00:44
falktxlen-1204: only the "remove old entry" is duplicated00:44
falktxthe big file is the main one00:44
len-1204which one is for which desktop kind00:45
* falktx is confused00:45
len-1204The idea of the files in /etc/xdg is that they should work with any desktop enviro.00:46
len-1204so how come I have two files that do the same thing?00:46
len-1204If they are to support more than one DE then which one supports which DE?00:47
falktxI don't remember the details now00:49
len-1204There are two files (see above) that take a bunch of AV menu items out of mutimedia and split them into video and audio production00:49
falktxbut I'm sure the xfce-applications.menu symlink if for xfce00:49
len-1204Ja ;-)00:49
falktxlen-1204: as I said, one of those files only contains the "removed entries" desktop files00:49
falktxthere's basically00:50
falktx- big file, contatins all data00:50
falktx- small file, contains removed entries (duplicated from big file, for compatibility with other DEs)00:50
falktx- xfce symlink00:50
falktxI don't remeber the filenames now (for the big and small file)00:51
falktxI did my testing, and that config syntax was the best I could achieve00:51
falktxI use it for my custom kxstudio-menu package00:51
len-1204So to fiddle with anything I need to install kde and gnome as well?00:52
falktxbtw, it works here in razor-qt as well00:52
falktxlen-1204: no, the menu file (should) support all00:52
falktxie, support whatever DE is installed, if they follow the specs00:52
falktxI think the duplicated removed entries is for gnome, now that I think of it...00:53
len-1204so http://standards.freedesktop.org is a good place to look for what is going on?00:54
falktxlen-1204: note - most DEs don't follow standards00:54
len-1204That includes gnome3?00:54
falktxgnome2 and xfce00:54
falktxlen-1204: I never tested with gnome300:55
falktxafaik, it doesn't use this kind of menu00:55
falktxthe "legacy menu" is only available with custom extensions afaik00:55
len-1204Oh yeah, shold have thought of that... unity either00:55
falktxI believe this works with 'cardapio' app00:55
falktxI remember seeing it working once00:56
len-1204I don't get out enough...00:56
falktxsomeone should test lxde and check if the menu is still valid there00:57
len-1204I think I will start with the xfce stuff and migrate from there.00:57
falktxlen-1204: you want to add more apps to the menu files?00:58
len-1204another menu or two. Scott wants to take the audio pro and video pro menus out of multimedia and into main00:59
len-1204Leave MM for desktop stuff.00:59
falktxso we would have:00:59
falktx- Audio01:00
falktx- Video01:00
falktx- Multimedia01:00
falktxthe 3?01:00
len-1204maybe more or just sub menus in audio01:00
falktxlen-1204: I can easily make the menu changes when needed, since I made them ;)01:01
len-1204But that is the idea.01:01
falktxlen-1204: just tell me which changes to make (when definitive)01:01
len-1204I think video can stand as it is, but I was going to put a sub menu for sound gen and maybe one for mixers (there are all these card specific mixers)01:03
len-1204Part of the problem is I still don't know what apps we will actually finally end up with.01:03
len-1204I was hoping they would get put in sooner than later.01:06
falktxwell, we need to all apps in the menu anyway01:06
falktxie, if the user installs a daw that doesn't come with US by default, it still should go to the proper menu place01:07
falktxso, we just put all possible desktop files, right?01:07
len-1204They will, the question is where... it would probably end up in MM01:07
len-1204ardour 3 already does.01:09
len-1204falktx: it looks like basically the audio and video menus are custom made deals. Most of these files are either audio or video, but there doesn't seem to be a way of splitting them up and still using MM as a catch all.01:22
len-1204for example audacious would end up in adio01:22
len-1204audio if we just put all audio thing in audio01:23
len-1204 but we want it in MM.01:23
len-1204So the excludes and includes have tried to deal with more than just what we ship.01:24
len-1204There are lots of sub categories in the spec... like audiovideo,audio,mixer, but nobody seems to have used them.01:28
len-1204Or, they have used so many...01:30
lenOk, changing the one in the /etc/xdg/menus/appliactions-merged directory changes things in the xfce menu right away.02:50
len-1204Hmm, does it matter on the main menu where the audio and video selections fall?03:21
len-1204Right now the audio is second from the top and video is at the bottom. I was thinking to put them together. any opinions?03:22
len-1204ScottL ^^^03:23
ScottLlen-1204, i had considered putting the audio, video, and graphic (and probably photography) menus together in their own section03:25
len-1204ScottL: Ok I will put a separator in. Should the three be before settings then right at the top?03:28
len-1204ScottL: I had not thought about photography as different from graphics. So many of the apps might be used for either or.03:32
len-1204I could put some repeats...03:33
holsteinlen-1204: ping03:38
holsteinlen: 03:38
holsteinlen-1204: you busy for about 20 minutes?03:38
len-1204I can be free a bit. What would yopu like?03:39
holsteinlen-1204: you want to work on this installer slide show with me?03:40
len-1204Ok, do you have it on a web site?03:40
holsteinim actually just getting started03:41
holsteini was thinking about trying to share my screen with you over team viewer or something03:41
holsteinlet me see how challening that is going to be03:41
len-1204I don't have anything not in US120403:41
holsteini know03:42
holsteini think im going to tyr and get away with using my production machine03:42
holsteinits 10.0403:42
holsteinbut the stuff looks the same03:42
holsteini dont thing we need shots of the menus and stuff, since that is still in flux03:43
len-1204It is just a web page. If you take the ubiquity one we have now and hit the browser with the index.html file it works in firefox03:43
len-1204I would just put screen shots of apps03:44
holsteinyeah, thats what i was thinking03:44
len-1204We could even use the same shot they do for firefox03:44
len-1204It may be easiest if I fire up the live dvd so i have access to the size of pictures they use.03:46
len-1204the ones they have in xubunutu03:46
holsteinthat would be great!03:46
len-1204are too big. they push the bottom progress bar off the bottom of the screen03:47
holsteinknome told me the sizes03:47
holsteinnot that i remember where that went03:47
len-1204Ya but they were the same as xubuntu I think03:47
len-1204 c u in two or so.03:47
=== ubuntu-studio is now known as Len-live
Len-liveholstein: I'm back03:52
holsteinLen-live: does this work? http://go.teamviewer.com/v7/m2847080603:53
Len-liveI get :You need a newer version of Adobe Flash Player to use TeamViewer. You can download this player 03:54
holsteinyou cant just force it?03:54
micahgflash should be up to date in all releases03:56
Len-liveI would have thought... but I am live. I may have to download it.03:56
micahgyes, we don't ship flash on media03:57
holsteinLen-live: not a deal breaker03:58
Len-liveI don't get the normal installer either.03:59
Len-liveOk, I went to youtube... now loading.04:01
Len-liveAnyway, slideshow.conf says 752x44204:02
Len-liveWith the size that you sent you would have to put any text on top.04:03
Len-livetheir browser shot is 448X30404:05
ScottLholstein, Len-live , don't forget about the roadmap that links to the slideshow specs (including image sizes, etc)04:06
Len-liveThat sure gets the point across about lots of connections though.04:07
holsteinScottL: cool... that'll do it04:07
ScottLi would suggest keeping in mind what you want to feature or highlight about what ubuntu studio represents or offers04:07
holsteinLen-live: let me just link some, and you through out ideas04:07
ScottLe.g., show jack and say that it offers infinite connections and hyper-low latencies04:08
holsteinif we get the shots and the text together, i can do the size04:08
ScottLjack has unlimited tracks, in-line plugins, automated faders, etc, etc04:08
ScottLbasically i was stealing those lines from their respective website ;)04:08
Len-liveOk, that gets two apps at once though we don't have to. We could adjust the slide chaneg rate too04:10
Len-liveAgain though I don't see where you would put the text04:11
holsteinLen-live: knome said if they are the correct size, we just get the text to him and he'll knock it out04:11
holsteinnot really sure how04:11
holsteinLen-live: are you alright with those 2?04:12
Len-liveKnock it out as in put it on top? I was looking at the original and it has text beside the images for the most part04:12
Len-livethey have good content.04:12
ScottLholstein, i didn't look at the image but combining jack and ardour wouldn't be a bad thing to do04:12
Len-liveHe had ardour and jammin04:12
ScottLthat's good too :)04:13
Len-liveThe first was qjackdctl with the conection screen open behind.04:13
Len-liveWe should use the one they have for shotwell04:14
holsteinman... i dont know *anything* about blender04:14
holsteinyup... agreed about shotwell04:15
holsteinLen-live: is there a "gimp" one? i was about to do that04:15
Len-liveCan leave the text the same too04:15
Len-liveNo there is no gimp04:15
holsteinwe need a GIMP?04:16
holsteini mean, i want JACK and ardour for sure04:16
holsteinthe GIMP and blender were on my list04:16
Len-liveThey have a browse, office, USC, customize, photographs, mobilize, social, music and startfast04:17
holsteinLen-live: are you a MIDI guy?04:17
Len-liveI would do something with gimp, not sure what... I don't know blender either04:17
Len-livei know what a chord looks like on a key board... ;-)04:18
holsteinLen-live: i say we use one from the blender site04:18
holsteinyou agree?04:18
Len-liveGood idea04:18
Len-liveI haven't seen it, but I figure they know what it can do04:19
Len-liveI think the only two we can use from the original Sliideshow are the shotwell and browser.04:20
holsteinnice text here too :)04:20
Len-liveLooking at the blender site I am not sure which one.04:23
holsteinLen-live: i got one04:25
holsteinlet me load up a screenie of midi apps04:26
Len-liveholstein: Both look good, but I have to go, the family needs me04:26
Len-liveOk one more04:26
Len-liveYou guys with the uprights sure like to bend those strings. A friend of mine hits them pretty hard too.04:28
Len-liveI thought I was rough, but mine is amplified.04:28
holsteinLen-live: thanks for the help04:29
Len-liveOk, if you leave a link up I'll look when I get back04:30
holsteinLen-live: i think id like to keep the shotwell one only05:20
holsteini think the FF one will be out of place05:21
holsteinand, some folks doing audio production dont have their machines online05:21
Len-liveOk, not exactly inspirational anyway.05:44
Len-liveholstein: did you find a midi shot?05:45
holsteinLen-live: lemme link you the shots i have05:45
holsteinSO, im thinking no on the FF one05:45
holsteinbut lets keep the openshot one05:45
holsteinthat would be 905:46
holsteinthere are 2 rakarrack-ish ones though05:47
Len-liveI would take the qtracktor over the hydrogen one05:49
Len-liveHydrogen is really good, but the other shows whats going on better05:50
Len-liveIt would be nice if we had a video editing something.05:50
holsteinLen-live: i had lsd make it for me :)05:50
holsteinLen-live: thats openshot right?05:50
holsteinor is that photo?05:50
Len-liveopen shot is more photography05:50
holsteini really like kden05:51
holsteinbut thats mis-representinng i think05:51
Len-liveHard to show video editing in a still though05:51
holsteinScottL: are you home?05:51
Len-liveIt may be a bit late for him05:52
holsteinhe has some video projects though...05:52
holsteinLen-live: what editor is "default" ?05:53
Len-livewhich kind of editor? video?05:53
Len-liveOops open shot is video, I was thinking shotwell that is photo05:54
holsteinLen-live: COOL05:54
holsteinthat makes things easier05:54
holsteinor was that shotwell in the slider?05:54
holsteinprolly was05:54
Len-livethe other is xjdeo05:55
Len-livexjadeo is how its spelt05:55
Len-livethere is a subtitle editor as well.05:56
Len-livethe slider had shotwell.05:56
holsteinlets just use http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1172535/pictures/ubuntustudio/openshot.png05:57
holsteinand i think we are done05:57
holsteini mean, choosing, that is05:57
Len-liveThat works05:57
Len-liveWhat are you using as title?05:59
holsteinLen-live: not sure yet05:59
holsteinim going to look over the guidelines05:59
holsteinget the sizes right05:59
holsteinsteal from the sites as much as possible06:00
Len-liveEasiest way to do it06:00
Len-liveholstein: I'm rebooting back to 1204 installed to do some more menu playing.06:01
holsteinLen-live: cool06:01
holsteinim going to crash06:01
holsteinim beat!06:01
holsteinknome: i should have all this ready for you tomorrow... thanks!06:02
knomeholstein, sure08:08
holsteinknome: ping16:49
knomeholstein, dong16:49
holsteinknome: im resizing the slides.. do you have a second?16:49
knomeyeah, a second maybe :)16:50
holstein215x130 is *really* cramping the style16:50
holsteinnot useable16:50
holsteindid you say there was a bigger size if i *dont* have just one window?16:50
holsteinthe res has to be 72 right?16:50
holsteini can take smaller parts of the screen shot as well.. im just seeking input16:51
knome215x130? who said that?16:59
holsteinim referencing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubiquity/Slideshow16:59
holsteinknome: i didnt make a note of what you had said, though i should have16:59
holsteini remember there being a few size options16:59
knomethe sizes are17:01
knomeeither 450x410 (if it's cut from right-bottom, like: http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntustudio/slideshow/04_abiword.png)17:01
holsteinim am putting these in a text file in dropbox *right* *now* !17:01
knomeor, 440x370, if you're presenting a "full" shot, like: http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntustudio/slideshow/04_abiword.png17:02
holsteinknome: thanks... i think that'll do it17:02
knomeok, good17:03
scott-workTheMuso: did you get your changes into REVU? i don't think i see any updates20:51
TheMusoscott-work: No, for some reason I am unable to upload to review, the incoming directory doesn't appear to exist on the server after the downtime last week...21:13
scott-workTheMuso: hmmm, i had trouble as well earler but siretart helped me21:16
TheMusoscott-work: How so?21:16
scott-workTheMuso:  i managed to dput it up, although it went to a rejected directory or similar, but siretart pulled it out and put it in new21:46
TheMusoscott-work: Right...21:51
TheMusoscott-work: That doesn't really help, as revu uploads are broken for everybody else.21:52
ScottLTheMuso, i meant that maybe siretart might be able to help23:01
lenScottL: is there any reason not to do things as xubuntu has done for menus. They have made their own xdg directory and done everything from scratch.23:06
TheMusoScottL: Thanks, seems someone is around who has admin powers to have a look.23:14
ScottLlen, is that not what falktx_ did with our menu?23:28
ScottLlen, also, are you able to install from the live dvd image?23:28
lenScottL: No, he has just merged into the stock one.23:28
lenYes I can install.23:29
ScottLlen, oh, didn't know that :/23:29
lenAt least two days ago. I did not try yesterdays or todays.23:29
lenXubuntu created a directory /etc/xdg/xubuntu-xdg and put a copy of anything in xdg in there and then made what they want and set the configpath to that instead of /etyc/xdg23:30
lenIt would mean changing some other things, but might make setting up themes etc easier too.23:31
TheMusoScottL: Ok uploading now, will take a while.23:31
ScottLTheMuso, exciting!  thank you :)23:32
TheMusoTo revu that is...23:32
ScottLyeah, i know ;)23:32
lenScottL: is there any reason to try another install just now? I have been using the last one to play with menus.23:33
ScottLlen, i don't know, i'm just trying to get one installed23:34
ScottLlen, do you choose "install" from the first menu or go live then install it?23:34
lenThe one problem with replacing the xdg menu is for those who are running something else and installing our meta.23:34
lenI have done it both ways, but mostly from live.23:34
lenIt means I can run xchat and start an xtermto  do less /var/log/syslog so I can watch what is going on.23:35
lenI can also set up jackd to RT before first boot and add the default.desktop to make sure lightdm works.23:36
lenI was waiting for some changes before I did another install.23:38
lenScottL: I think I have answered my own question on the menus... I will work with it the way it is.23:40
lenWe are supporting a different base of people than xubuntu and expect people may install one meta in some other distro. I don't want to wreck their setup, just add to it.23:41
lenI have got to the point of having the four extra menus, it is just the separating them to their own part of the menu with a separator. More work tonight if I have time.23:43

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