[00:04] <astraljava> len-1204: They seem to be related to the last revision, in which falktx mentions support being added for both Xfce and KDE menus.
[00:06] <falktx> len-1204: I did my research there, that was the best method I could come up with that worked in most DEs (at least Gnome, XFCE and KDE)
[00:06] <falktx> the old method only worked properly on Gnome
[00:06] <falktx> didn't worked on XFCE and had issues with KDE
[00:07] <len-1204> Oh boy... Ok, Scott wanted some changes, I was going to try some.... Are we wooried about anything other than xfce still?
[00:22] <falktx> ubuntustudio-menu package is installable in any DE
[00:23] <falktx> It makes sense to make that it supports more than just xfce
[00:35] <holstein> falktx: i like where your head is at with that
[00:43] <falktx> :)
[00:43] <len-1204> I figured... 
[00:43] <len-1204> Any idea which one is which?
[00:44] <falktx> which?
[00:44] <len-1204> the menu files.
[00:44] <falktx> len-1204: only the "remove old entry" is duplicated
[00:44] <falktx> the big file is the main one
[00:45] <len-1204> which one is for which desktop kind
[00:45] <falktx> hm?
[00:45]  * falktx is confused
[00:46] <len-1204> The idea of the files in /etc/xdg is that they should work with any desktop enviro.
[00:46] <len-1204> so how come I have two files that do the same thing?
[00:47] <len-1204> If they are to support more than one DE then which one supports which DE?
[00:48] <falktx> ah
[00:49] <falktx> I don't remember the details now
[00:49] <len-1204> There are two files (see above) that take a bunch of AV menu items out of mutimedia and split them into video and audio production
[00:49] <falktx> but I'm sure the xfce-applications.menu symlink if for xfce
[00:49] <len-1204> Ja ;-)
[00:49] <falktx> len-1204: as I said, one of those files only contains the "removed entries" desktop files
[00:50] <falktx> there's basically
[00:50] <falktx> - big file, contatins all data
[00:50] <falktx> - small file, contains removed entries (duplicated from big file, for compatibility with other DEs)
[00:50] <falktx> - xfce symlink
[00:51] <falktx> I don't remeber the filenames now (for the big and small file)
[00:51] <falktx> I did my testing, and that config syntax was the best I could achieve
[00:51] <falktx> I use it for my custom kxstudio-menu package
[00:52] <len-1204> So to fiddle with anything I need to install kde and gnome as well?
[00:52] <falktx> btw, it works here in razor-qt as well
[00:52] <falktx> len-1204: no, the menu file (should) support all
[00:52] <falktx> ie, support whatever DE is installed, if they follow the specs
[00:53] <falktx> I think the duplicated removed entries is for gnome, now that I think of it...
[00:54] <len-1204> so http://standards.freedesktop.org is a good place to look for what is going on?
[00:54] <falktx> len-1204: note - most DEs don't follow standards
[00:54] <len-1204> That includes gnome3?
[00:54] <falktx> gnome2 and xfce
[00:55] <falktx> len-1204: I never tested with gnome3
[00:55] <falktx> afaik, it doesn't use this kind of menu
[00:55] <falktx> the "legacy menu" is only available with custom extensions afaik
[00:55] <len-1204> Oh yeah, shold have thought of that... unity either
[00:55] <falktx> yep
[00:55] <falktx> I believe this works with 'cardapio' app
[00:56] <falktx> I remember seeing it working once
[00:56] <len-1204> I don't get out enough...
[00:57] <falktx> someone should test lxde and check if the menu is still valid there
[00:57] <len-1204> I think I will start with the xfce stuff and migrate from there.
[00:58] <falktx> len-1204: you want to add more apps to the menu files?
[00:59] <len-1204> another menu or two. Scott wants to take the audio pro and video pro menus out of multimedia and into main
[00:59] <falktx> really?
[00:59] <len-1204> Leave MM for desktop stuff.
[00:59] <falktx> so we would have:
[01:00] <falktx> - Audio
[01:00] <falktx> - Video
[01:00] <falktx> - Multimedia
[01:00] <falktx> the 3?
[01:00] <len-1204> maybe more or just sub menus in audio
[01:01] <falktx> len-1204: I can easily make the menu changes when needed, since I made them ;)
[01:01] <len-1204> But that is the idea.
[01:01] <falktx> len-1204: just tell me which changes to make (when definitive)
[01:03] <len-1204> I think video can stand as it is, but I was going to put a sub menu for sound gen and maybe one for mixers (there are all these card specific mixers)
[01:03] <len-1204> Part of the problem is I still don't know what apps we will actually finally end up with.
[01:06] <len-1204> I was hoping they would get put in sooner than later.
[01:06] <falktx> well, we need to all apps in the menu anyway
[01:07] <falktx> ie, if the user installs a daw that doesn't come with US by default, it still should go to the proper menu place
[01:07] <falktx> so, we just put all possible desktop files, right?
[01:07] <len-1204> They will, the question is where... it would probably end up in MM
[01:09] <len-1204> ardour 3 already does.
[01:11] <falktx> MM?
[01:11] <len-1204> multimedia
[01:22] <len-1204> falktx: it looks like basically the audio and video menus are custom made deals. Most of these files are either audio or video, but there doesn't seem to be a way of splitting them up and still using MM as a catch all.
[01:22] <len-1204> for example audacious would end up in adio
[01:23] <len-1204> audio if we just put all audio thing in audio
[01:23] <len-1204>  but we want it in MM.
[01:24] <len-1204> So the excludes and includes have tried to deal with more than just what we ship.
[01:28] <len-1204> There are lots of sub categories in the spec... like audiovideo,audio,mixer, but nobody seems to have used them.
[01:30] <len-1204> Or, they have used so many...
[02:50] <len> Ok, changing the one in the /etc/xdg/menus/appliactions-merged directory changes things in the xfce menu right away.
[03:21] <len-1204> Hmm, does it matter on the main menu where the audio and video selections fall?
[03:22] <len-1204> Right now the audio is second from the top and video is at the bottom. I was thinking to put them together. any opinions?
[03:23] <len-1204> ScottL ^^^
[03:25] <ScottL> len-1204, i had considered putting the audio, video, and graphic (and probably photography) menus together in their own section
[03:28] <len-1204> ScottL: Ok I will put a separator in. Should the three be before settings then right at the top?
[03:32] <len-1204> ScottL: I had not thought about photography as different from graphics. So many of the apps might be used for either or.
[03:33] <len-1204> I could put some repeats...
[03:38] <holstein> len-1204: ping
[03:38] <holstein> len: 
[03:38] <len-1204> Aye
[03:38] <holstein> len-1204: you busy for about 20 minutes?
[03:39] <len-1204> I can be free a bit. What would yopu like?
[03:40] <holstein> len-1204: you want to work on this installer slide show with me?
[03:40] <len-1204> Ok, do you have it on a web site?
[03:41] <holstein> nope
[03:41] <len-1204> OK
[03:41] <holstein> im actually just getting started
[03:41] <holstein> i was thinking about trying to share my screen with you over team viewer or something
[03:41] <holstein> let me see how challening that is going to be
[03:41] <len-1204> I don't have anything not in US1204
[03:42] <holstein> i know
[03:42] <holstein> i think im going to tyr and get away with using my production machine
[03:42] <holstein> its 10.04
[03:42] <holstein> but the stuff looks the same
[03:43] <holstein> i dont thing we need shots of the menus and stuff, since that is still in flux
[03:43] <len-1204> It is just a web page. If you take the ubiquity one we have now and hit the browser with the index.html file it works in firefox
[03:44] <len-1204> I would just put screen shots of apps
[03:44] <holstein> yeah, thats what i was thinking
[03:44] <len-1204> We could even use the same shot they do for firefox
[03:45] <holstein> sure
[03:46] <len-1204> It may be easiest if I fire up the live dvd so i have access to the size of pictures they use.
[03:46] <len-1204> the ones they have in xubunutu
[03:46] <len-1204> xubuntu
[03:46] <holstein> that would be great!
[03:47] <len-1204> are too big. they push the bottom progress bar off the bottom of the screen
[03:47] <holstein> knome told me the sizes
[03:47] <holstein> not that i remember where that went
[03:47] <len-1204> Ya but they were the same as xubuntu I think
[03:47] <len-1204>  c u in two or so.
[03:47] <holstein> cool!
[03:52] <Len-live> holstein: I'm back
[03:53] <holstein> Len-live: does this work? http://go.teamviewer.com/v7/m28470806
[03:54] <Len-live> I get :You need a newer version of Adobe Flash Player to use TeamViewer. You can download this player 
[03:54] <holstein> you cant just force it?
[03:56] <micahg> flash should be up to date in all releases
[03:56] <Len-live> I would have thought... but I am live. I may have to download it.
[03:57] <micahg> yes, we don't ship flash on media
[03:58] <holstein> Len-live: not a deal breaker
[03:59] <Len-live> I don't get the normal installer either.
[04:01] <Len-live> Ok, I went to youtube... now loading.
[04:01] <holstein> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1172535/pictures/ubuntustudio/jack1.png
[04:02] <Len-live> Anyway, slideshow.conf says 752x442
[04:03] <Len-live> With the size that you sent you would have to put any text on top.
[04:05] <Len-live> their browser shot is 448X304
[04:06] <ScottL> holstein, Len-live , don't forget about the roadmap that links to the slideshow specs (including image sizes, etc)
[04:06] <ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Roadmap
[04:07] <Len-live> That sure gets the point across about lots of connections though.
[04:07] <holstein> ScottL: cool... that'll do it
[04:07] <ScottL> i would suggest keeping in mind what you want to feature or highlight about what ubuntu studio represents or offers
[04:07] <holstein> Len-live: let me just link some, and you through out ideas
[04:08] <ScottL> e.g., show jack and say that it offers infinite connections and hyper-low latencies
[04:08] <holstein> if we get the shots and the text together, i can do the size
[04:08] <ScottL> jack has unlimited tracks, in-line plugins, automated faders, etc, etc
[04:08] <ScottL> basically i was stealing those lines from their respective website ;)
[04:09] <holstein> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1172535/pictures/ubuntustudio/ardour.png
[04:10] <Len-live> Ok, that gets two apps at once though we don't have to. We could adjust the slide chaneg rate too
[04:11] <Len-live> Again though I don't see where you would put the text
[04:11] <holstein> Len-live: knome said if they are the correct size, we just get the text to him and he'll knock it out
[04:11] <holstein> not really sure how
[04:12] <holstein> Len-live: are you alright with those 2?
[04:12] <Len-live> Knock it out as in put it on top? I was looking at the original and it has text beside the images for the most part
[04:12] <Len-live> they have good content.
[04:12] <ScottL> holstein, i didn't look at the image but combining jack and ardour wouldn't be a bad thing to do
[04:12] <Len-live> He had ardour and jammin
[04:13] <ScottL> that's good too :)
[04:13] <Len-live> The first was qjackdctl with the conection screen open behind.
[04:14] <Len-live> We should use the one they have for shotwell
[04:14] <holstein> man... i dont know *anything* about blender
[04:15] <holstein> yup... agreed about shotwell
[04:15] <holstein> Len-live: is there a "gimp" one? i was about to do that
[04:15] <Len-live> Can leave the text the same too
[04:15] <Len-live> No there is no gimp
[04:16] <holstein> we need a GIMP?
[04:16] <holstein> i mean, i want JACK and ardour for sure
[04:16] <holstein> the GIMP and blender were on my list
[04:17] <Len-live> They have a browse, office, USC, customize, photographs, mobilize, social, music and startfast
[04:17] <holstein> Len-live: are you a MIDI guy?
[04:17] <Len-live> I would do something with gimp, not sure what... I don't know blender either
[04:18] <Len-live> i know what a chord looks like on a key board... ;-)
[04:18] <holstein> hehe
[04:18] <holstein> Len-live: i say we use one from the blender site
[04:18] <holstein> you agree?
[04:18] <Len-live> Good idea
[04:19] <Len-live> I haven't seen it, but I figure they know what it can do
[04:20] <Len-live> I think the only two we can use from the original Sliideshow are the shotwell and browser.
[04:20] <holstein> nice text here too :)
[04:21] <Len-live> Ok.
[04:23] <Len-live> Looking at the blender site I am not sure which one.
[04:25] <holstein> Len-live: i got one
[04:25] <holstein> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1172535/pictures/ubuntustudio/blender.png
[04:25] <holstein> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1172535/pictures/ubuntustudio/gimp.png
[04:26] <holstein> let me load up a screenie of midi apps
[04:26] <Len-live> holstein: Both look good, but I have to go, the family needs me
[04:26] <Len-live> Ok one more
[04:28] <Len-live> You guys with the uprights sure like to bend those strings. A friend of mine hits them pretty hard too.
[04:28] <Len-live> I thought I was rough, but mine is amplified.
[04:29] <holstein> hehe
[04:29] <holstein> Len-live: thanks for the help
[04:30] <Len-live> Ok, if you leave a link up I'll look when I get back
[05:20] <holstein> Len-live: i think id like to keep the shotwell one only
[05:21] <holstein> i think the FF one will be out of place
[05:21] <holstein> and, some folks doing audio production dont have their machines online
[05:44] <Len-live> Ok, not exactly inspirational anyway.
[05:45] <Len-live> holstein: did you find a midi shot?
[05:45] <holstein> Len-live: lemme link you the shots i have
[05:45] <holstein> SO, im thinking no on the FF one
[05:45] <holstein> but lets keep the openshot one
[05:45] <holstein> then...
[05:45] <holstein> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1172535/pictures/ubuntustudio/ardour.png
[05:46] <holstein> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1172535/pictures/ubuntustudio/blender.png
[05:46] <holstein> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1172535/pictures/ubuntustudio/effects.png
[05:46] <holstein> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1172535/pictures/ubuntustudio/effets2.png
[05:46] <holstein> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1172535/pictures/ubuntustudio/gimp.png
[05:46] <holstein> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1172535/pictures/ubuntustudio/jack1.png
[05:46] <holstein> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1172535/pictures/ubuntustudio/MIDI1.png
[05:46] <holstein> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1172535/pictures/ubuntustudio/qtractor.png
[05:46] <holstein> that would be 9
[05:47] <holstein> there are 2 rakarrack-ish ones though
[05:49] <Len-live> I would take the qtracktor over the hydrogen one
[05:50] <Len-live> Hydrogen is really good, but the other shows whats going on better
[05:50] <Len-live> It would be nice if we had a video editing something.
[05:50] <holstein> Len-live: i had lsd make it for me :)
[05:50] <holstein> Len-live: thats openshot right?
[05:50] <holstein> or is that photo?
[05:50] <Len-live> open shot is more photography
[05:51] <holstein> i really like kden
[05:51] <holstein> but thats mis-representinng i think
[05:51] <Len-live> Hard to show video editing in a still though
[05:51] <holstein> ScottL: are you home?
[05:52] <Len-live> It may be a bit late for him
[05:52] <holstein> hmmm....
[05:52] <holstein> he has some video projects though...
[05:53] <holstein> Len-live: what editor is "default" ?
[05:53] <Len-live> which kind of editor? video?
[05:53] <holstein> yup
[05:54] <Len-live> Oops open shot is video, I was thinking shotwell that is photo
[05:54] <holstein> Len-live: COOL
[05:54] <holstein> that makes things easier
[05:54] <holstein> or was that shotwell in the slider?
[05:54] <holstein> prolly was
[05:55] <Len-live> the other is xjdeo
[05:55] <Len-live> xjadeo is how its spelt
[05:55] <holstein> hehe
[05:56] <Len-live> there is a subtitle editor as well.
[05:56] <Len-live> the slider had shotwell.
[05:57] <holstein> lets just use http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1172535/pictures/ubuntustudio/openshot.png
[05:57] <holstein> and i think we are done
[05:57] <holstein> i mean, choosing, that is
[05:57] <Len-live> That works
[05:59] <Len-live> What are you using as title?
[05:59] <holstein> Len-live: not sure yet
[05:59] <holstein> im going to look over the guidelines
[05:59] <holstein> get the sizes right
[06:00] <holstein> steal from the sites as much as possible
[06:00] <Len-live> Easiest way to do it
[06:01] <Len-live> holstein: I'm rebooting back to 1204 installed to do some more menu playing.
[06:01] <holstein> Len-live: cool
[06:01] <holstein> im going to crash
[06:01] <holstein> im beat!
[06:01] <Len-live> night
[06:02] <holstein> knome: i should have all this ready for you tomorrow... thanks!
[08:08] <knome> holstein, sure
[16:49] <holstein> knome: ping
[16:49] <knome> holstein, dong
[16:49] <holstein> o/
[16:49] <holstein> knome: im resizing the slides.. do you have a second?
[16:50] <knome> yeah, a second maybe :)
[16:50] <holstein> 215x130 is *really* cramping the style
[16:50] <holstein> not useable
[16:50] <holstein> did you say there was a bigger size if i *dont* have just one window?
[16:50] <holstein> the res has to be 72 right?
[16:51] <holstein> i can take smaller parts of the screen shot as well.. im just seeking input
[16:59] <knome> 215x130? who said that?
[16:59] <holstein> im referencing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubiquity/Slideshow
[16:59] <holstein> knome: i didnt make a note of what you had said, though i should have
[16:59] <knome> right.
[16:59] <holstein> i remember there being a few size options
[17:01] <knome> so
[17:01] <knome> the sizes are
[17:01] <knome> either 450x410 (if it's cut from right-bottom, like: http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntustudio/slideshow/04_abiword.png)
[17:01] <holstein> im am putting these in a text file in dropbox *right* *now* !
[17:02] <knome> or, 440x370, if you're presenting a "full" shot, like: http://temp.knome.fi/ubuntustudio/slideshow/04_abiword.png
[17:02] <holstein> knome: thanks... i think that'll do it
[17:03] <knome> ok, good
[20:51] <scott-work> TheMuso: did you get your changes into REVU? i don't think i see any updates
[21:13] <TheMuso> scott-work: No, for some reason I am unable to upload to review, the incoming directory doesn't appear to exist on the server after the downtime last week...
[21:16] <scott-work> TheMuso: hmmm, i had trouble as well earler but siretart helped me
[21:16] <TheMuso> scott-work: How so?
[21:46] <scott-work> TheMuso:  i managed to dput it up, although it went to a rejected directory or similar, but siretart pulled it out and put it in new
[21:51] <TheMuso> scott-work: Right...
[21:52] <TheMuso> scott-work: That doesn't really help, as revu uploads are broken for everybody else.
[23:01] <ScottL> TheMuso, i meant that maybe siretart might be able to help
[23:06] <len> ScottL: is there any reason not to do things as xubuntu has done for menus. They have made their own xdg directory and done everything from scratch.
[23:14] <TheMuso> ScottL: Thanks, seems someone is around who has admin powers to have a look.
[23:28] <ScottL> len, is that not what falktx_ did with our menu?
[23:28] <ScottL> len, also, are you able to install from the live dvd image?
[23:28] <len> ScottL: No, he has just merged into the stock one.
[23:29] <len> Yes I can install.
[23:29] <ScottL> len, oh, didn't know that :/
[23:29] <len> At least two days ago. I did not try yesterdays or todays.
[23:30] <len> Xubuntu created a directory /etc/xdg/xubuntu-xdg and put a copy of anything in xdg in there and then made what they want and set the configpath to that instead of /etyc/xdg
[23:31] <len> It would mean changing some other things, but might make setting up themes etc easier too.
[23:31] <TheMuso> ScottL: Ok uploading now, will take a while.
[23:32] <ScottL> TheMuso, exciting!  thank you :)
[23:32] <TheMuso> To revu that is...
[23:32] <ScottL> yeah, i know ;)
[23:33] <len> ScottL: is there any reason to try another install just now? I have been using the last one to play with menus.
[23:34] <ScottL> len, i don't know, i'm just trying to get one installed
[23:34] <ScottL> len, do you choose "install" from the first menu or go live then install it?
[23:34] <len> The one problem with replacing the xdg menu is for those who are running something else and installing our meta.
[23:34] <len> I have done it both ways, but mostly from live.
[23:35] <len> It means I can run xchat and start an xtermto  do less /var/log/syslog so I can watch what is going on.
[23:36] <len> I can also set up jackd to RT before first boot and add the default.desktop to make sure lightdm works.
[23:38] <len> I was waiting for some changes before I did another install.
[23:40] <len> ScottL: I think I have answered my own question on the menus... I will work with it the way it is.
[23:41] <len> We are supporting a different base of people than xubuntu and expect people may install one meta in some other distro. I don't want to wreck their setup, just add to it.
[23:43] <len> I have got to the point of having the four extra menus, it is just the separating them to their own part of the menu with a separator. More work tonight if I have time.