ubuntuuk-planet[Jonathan Riddell] 12.04 Feature Freeze This Week - http://blogs.kde.org/node/453600:05
ubuntuuk-planet[Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments Lens - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/15/ubuntu-accomplishments-lens/00:05
=== gary_ is now known as Guest36891
ali1234supposing I had a zillion png files and I wanted to convert them to jpg00:21
ali1234if i put them all on a NFS share and then write a converter program that silent skips png files when a jpg already exists (or rather, if creating it fails due to it already existing), could I run that across multiple machines - ie a cluster?00:21
ali1234it seems like someone would have tried this before. does this type of system have a specific name i can google for more information?00:21
directhe`ali1234: sounds like a trivially parallel task, but you need to manually parallelize your problem set00:22
ali1234it is trivially parallel yes00:22
ali1234i'm not actually doing png to jpg00:22
directhe`even if this means "for i in a*.png" on machine 1, "for i in b*.png" on machine 2, etc00:22
ali1234but the idea is the same: each input file creates exactly one output00:23
ali1234it's a lot slower task as well so bandwidth isn't an issue00:23
ali1234do i really need to split the work like that? can't i just let the NFS handle it for me?00:23
ali1234ie try: for i in *.png... except OSError: pass00:24
ali1234or whatever exception you get when you try to create a file that already exists00:24
ali1234th ereason i ask is because i'll be writing that code anyway so that the whole job can be continued if it is stopped00:25
ali1234i'd like to be able to add and remove machines fromt he cluster at will too :)00:28
ali1234well i'm just going to implement it and see what happens00:35
directhe`ali1234: your problem if you do it in order is obvious, no?00:42
ali1234the obvious problem is that every node will attempt to process every file00:42
directhe`machine 1 sees no foo.jpg, so starts converting foo.png. machine 2 sees no food.jpg, so starts converting foo.jpg. machine 1 finishes conversion, writes foo.jpg00:42
ali1234that supposes that my program doesn't attempt to open the file *first* and then lock it00:42
ali1234that needs to be an atomic operation of course00:43
ali1234the output file i mean00:43
ali1234if that fails, it silently goes to the next file00:43
ali1234the the first instance opens foo.jpg, opens foo.png, converts, writes to foo.jpg00:44
ali1234the second instance attempts to open foo.jpg, fails, then goes to foo1.jpg00:44
ali1234this seems like an obvious idea. it might mean a lot of collisions if all instances were converting several files per second, but they are not00:44
ali1234the actual conversion does about 1 file per minute per CPU core00:45
ali1234actually it would do this:00:47
ali1234if output file exists and is exactly 42 * 32 bytes, skip input file00:47
directhe`what you really want is a parallel job scheduler.00:47
ali1234else attempt to open output file for exclusive writing00:47
ali1234if that fails, skip input file00:47
ali1234else, process the input file00:47
directhe`let's say you have a million images, and 10 machines. you don't split it into ten 100,000 lots, you split it into a whole lot of 60 image lots.00:48
directhe`submit this whole bunch of 60-image jobs to the scheduler00:48
ali1234i specifically don't want to write a job scheduler00:48
directhe`so use one of the shelf? believe ir or not, other humans have done this stuff before00:48
ali1234i've looked at every available system for doing this00:49
directhe`yeah, shoulda stayed in my game rather than trying to help00:49
ali1234they all either don't work like this, are so low level you have to write most of it yourself, or would require me to rewrite the whole thing in java00:49
ali1234this is about the time that people tell me just to use hadoop00:52
hamitronwhy not just have 1 comp do it over a longer period of time?00:53
ali1234because computers get rebooted in the real world00:55
ali1234therefore the software must be able to skip already processed files00:55
ali1234the easiest way to do that is just to check if the output file already exists00:55
ali1234so, as i said, i have to implement that check anyway00:55
ali1234now, i can either:00:56
ali12341) implement the check in a slightly nuanced way that makes it possible to cluster the software with zero extra work00:56
ali1234or 2) go and spend a month learning hadoop and then rewrite the entire software for a feature that will save me perhaps 1 week of processing time00:57
hamitronor index the files in a separate text file, numbered, then process them in that order..... but logging to a file the ones done00:58
ali1234that's basically 3) implement my own half-assed job control server00:58
hamitronso you know which file to start on next time00:58
ali1234the worst of all possible options :)00:59
hamitronhalf-assed is better than been fully assed, if you can't be assed00:59
hamitronif it is a one off, I wouldn't go to the trouble of setting something great up01:00
hamitronjust do something to get it done01:00
Azelphuranyone know how I view POSTDATA in firefoxes web console?01:00
AzelphurIt was always turned off by default, but now I can't see the on button for it anywhere01:01
Azelphuraha, right click on the net button :P01:01
directhe`this is absolutely a job for condor. but i'm sure ali1234 already rejected that one.01:20
AzelphurAnyone know a little about RSA and mind me poking them with a couple questions?01:20
ali1234condor eh?01:28
ali1234well let's see. it works by wrapping system calls so my software will run in it01:29
ali1234what it doesn;t do is any kind of job control01:29
ali1234i would need to implement that myself01:29
ali1234so let's say i implement that using the scheme i've outlined above01:29
ali1234then i could run my software on NFS01:29
ali1234*or* i could run it inside condor01:29
ali1234so, condor doesn't actually help me at all01:30
directhe`nobody in the history of computing has ever thrown a bunch of shell scripts at a job scheduler before, clearly01:31
ali1234i'm sure they have01:32
directhe`i think i'm going to go to bed. you have fun with your unique little computing problem01:33
ali1234see here's the problem01:33
ali1234you have totally failed to answer my very simple original question01:33
ali1234all you;ve done is say "that's easy, use this", and then suggested a solution that doesn't actually help at all01:33
ali1234and made lots of sarcastic remarks01:33
directhe`"<ali1234> if i put them all on a NFS share and then write a converter program that silent skips png files when a jpg already exists (or rather, if creating it fails due to it already existing), could I run that across multiple machines - ie a cluster?"01:35
directhe`there. question answered.01:35
ali1234was that really so hard?01:35
directhe`however, the scheme you keep outlining for doing it is retarded. but you're really not interested in hearing it.01:36
directhe`but since anything anyone ever in the history of creation has ever said which goes against your preferred technical solutions is clearly wrong, i'll leave it as an exercise to the reader as to why01:37
directhe`nothing says "it's bedtime!" like six years running a parallel computing facility, eh?01:38
ali1234on the contrary, i'm very interested in hearing it, assuming it is a logical, fact-based reason, rather than an argument from authority01:41
ali1234which is so far all you have presented01:41
hamitronisn't there a command to run a command on another machine?01:42
directhe`hamitron: "ssh"01:42
hamitronhmmm, it was something else I recall01:42
hamitronor maybe to run a command on lots of machines01:43
* hamitron shrugs01:43
directhe`ali1234: fine. in my experience, this is a task which is suited to a batch job scheduler. there are two main classes of batch job schedulers - cycle scavangers like xgrid or condor, and dedicated managers like torque and gridengine01:43
directhe`ali1234: if i were to try and accomplish your task, i would write a bash script which could translate an array job name (e.g. 1098[4].hostname) into some unique set of images to process (an hour is a good measure), submit a big freaking array job, and let the scheduler keep throwing out chunks of work to needy nodes as & when free nodes become available01:45
directhe`ali1234: e.g. if you have a million images numbered 0000001 to 1000000, then do some basic division of $PBS_ARRAYID in your submission script so a single job works on, like, 60 images01:46
directhe`ali1234: batch job scheduling, and shell scripting, are solved problems. "for i in foo do myapp $i" isn't rocket science either.01:47
ali1234how will that system handle a restart of every machine in the entire cluster?01:49
directhe`the job gets marked failed by the scheduler, and is subsequently rescheduled.01:49
directhe`by "the job" i mean "the specific jobid of the job running on a failed device", i.e. one piece of an array juob01:49
directhe`or more than one piece01:50
directhe`worst case the failed jobs get marked as held, and need to be released by the scheduler admin01:51
ali1234so this system requires a database of jobs which are either currently running or failed?01:52
ali1234and presumably the completed ones too01:52
directhe`ali1234: batch submission systems use a daemon on a "master" node, which handles submission of jobs to nodes, and accounting of status. you can read historic information such as job run time, queued jobs, etc01:53
directhe`e.g. http://www.clusterresources.com/torquedocs/commands/qstat.shtml01:55
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
=== Twinkletoes_ is now known as Twinkletoes
directhe`i'm totally going to bed now, i have to drive to cambridge tomorrow02:01
ali1234ok. goodnight02:01
=== joar_ is now known as CosmicB
AlanBellmorning all07:23
DJonesMorning folks07:54
=== himcesjf1 is now known as himcesjf
* BigRedS is surprised each morning to find that 'morning' doesn't tab-complete09:31
bigcalmGood morning :)09:31
bigcalmFrom apticron this morning09:48
bigcalm* /etc/lsb-release, /etc/issue, /etc/issue.net: Bump version number to09:48
bigcalm    10.04.4 in preparation for the point release.09:48
bigcalmSurely it should wait until April is here before that change is made?09:48
* czajkowski waves09:50
bigcalmEllo czajkowski :)09:50
bigcalmDo I want this as my wedding ring or will people think it's tacky? http://www.kinektdesign.com/product-gear-ring.php09:51
czajkowskibigcalm: I think you'll spend forever cleaning it and getting fluff and dirt out of the groves09:53
bigcalmczajkowski: that seems likely :(09:53
popeygord: new ssd may not fit in x220. bay is 7mm, drive is 9.3mm ⍨09:57
gordpopey, yeah you have to be careful, intel ones you can make fit09:57
popeytoo late, ordered the ocz one09:58
bigcalmI didn't consider that when I bought one for my laptop. It does fit though thankfully09:58
popeymight fit, others have managed09:58
BigRedSI thought there was a standard for laptop drives?09:59
JamesTaitGood morning all! :)09:59
BigRedSGood Morning!10:00
czajkowskihmm on the latest update  I swich to a different application10:01
czajkowskiI click on terminal on the left hand side menu and instead of showing me this irc window as before it launches a new terminal10:01
czajkowskioh but I do seem to have hud10:01
* czajkowski peers at gord you broke my laptop didn't you :p10:01
bigcalmpopey: found it http://thereifixedit.failblog.org/2012/02/03/white-trash-repairs-when-in-doubt-close-your-eyes-and-shove/10:02
bigcalmThought you'd like that10:04
popeybigcalm: there are numerous standards ☹10:04
bigcalmpopey: I think you mean BigRedS ;)10:05
popeyjust managed to slide another 9mm drive in10:09
bigcalmNo worries :)10:09
bigcalmOh my10:10
popeysuch a tight squeeze, the "VOID if removed" stickers came off10:10
popeyif this goes in, it's never coming out!10:10
popey(again, missus)10:10
bigcalmTake an angle grinder to it10:10
popeysome people take the shell off the device10:11
BigRedSAh, that's the lovely thing about standards :(10:17
czajkowskiand compiz crashes10:19
bigcalmWhy do my chair arms keep sinking?10:21
bigcalmSilly Aeron10:21
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
* popey wants aeron10:30
* bigcalm gives popey an Aero10:32
bigcalmSorry, the n fell off10:32
gordah id love an aero10:32
gordnice mint one10:32
brobostigongood morning everyone,10:34
brobostigonmorning MooDoo10:42
bigcalmHayley's laptop has a bad case of the malwares. Tempted to wipe and put Ubuntu on it. Think she might notice the difference though10:49
MooDoobigcalm: not if you theme it to look like windows lol10:50
sagacior temporarily dualboot10:51
bigcalmIf MS Office could run 100% perfectly without any faffing on Linux, then I think she would give it a go10:52
DJonesbigcalm: http://www.ylmf.org/en/10:54
matttbigcalm: just tell her it's office 201311:07
mattt"complete redesign"11:07
directhe`reformat. "forget" to back up something important like sims saves. that's always educational for windows users.11:08
davmor2morning all11:09
MooDoomorning davmor211:10
davmor2MooDoo: morning dude11:10
MooDoodavmor2: how are you br'a :)11:13
davmor2MooDoo: tired,  but not as tired as czajkowski I wager11:14
MooDoodavmor2: why what's she been doing?11:15
bigcalmHi davmor211:15
davmor2MooDoo: she staying just up the road shhhhhhh11:16
davmor2bigcalm: hey dude how's life11:16
MooDoodavmor2: huh?11:17
bigcalmDJones: I don't think that she cares that much about the look of the OS, more that MS Office won't work 100%11:17
bigcalmdavmor2: still full of curry from last night11:17
davmor2MooDoo: She has a mini sprint/training with mrevell for her new job so got the 06:23 train to wolves this morning and her hotel is in stone throwing distance11:18
davmor2bigcalm: nice11:18
popey\o/ ssd installed11:20
* jpds watches davmor2 throw some stones.11:23
davmor2jpds: no czajkowski needs to be in the hotel for me to hit her with them :P11:23
davmor2jpds: the worrying things is would throw them back :D11:24
jpdsdavmor2: Mean.11:24
* czajkowski waves11:26
* davmor2 gives czajkowski an empathy hug early trains and working all day == no fun11:28
MyrttiI can haz XKCD progress bar in Ubuntu plox?11:28
MyrttiI wants XKCD progress bar.11:28
czajkowskiit's not the worst11:28
czajkowskiand I get to learn stuff11:28
czajkowskiso win win  tbh11:28
bigcalmAnd you're in Wolverhampton, the centre of the Linux world!11:29
bigcalm(I might be embellishing the truth a little)11:29
czajkowskijust a tiny bit11:32
gordonjcpMyrtti: man, yeah11:38
gordonjcpMyrtti: pull random facts from wikipedia based on the displayed time11:38
BigRedSOh man that needs to be implemented11:38
popeyhad to decipher IKR. I like.11:39
gordonjcpbigcalm: also the centre of Wolverhampton has pork roll shops11:40
* popey uses gparted to copy/paste his partition from rust to ssd11:40
LaneyAre any of the Thomas train engines black?11:40
Laney(from the "on topic questions" file)11:41
jaustinDoes anyone know the etiquette about finding sponsors for uploads? Is it considered ok to prod someone on IRC?11:42
popeyi think one is11:43
Laneyhappen to know its name?11:43
Laneythe story is that I was waving at it while canoeing on Sunday and then didn't notice the approaching rapid and ended up mashing my face down some rocks11:43
* Myrtti throws money at the computer screen11:43
jaustinDonald and douglass are black :)11:43
Myrttiplease someone implement XKCD progress bar11:43
popeyand Neville11:43
popey"Neville is a black steam engine who looks more like a diesel engine. "11:44
Laneyyeah i think it was neville11:44
Laneythe passengers were waving back :(11:45
Laneyaside: the Llangollen railway is cool beans11:45
davmor2popey, gord: I looked into the code for lenses but it was over my head for now any chance you could throw together an xkcd lens :D11:49
davmor2you know it's what lenses were designed for :D11:50
gordi actually don't like xkcd :P so no :P11:50
davmor2gord: okay how about a general COMICS LENS then :D11:51
LaneyRSS lens would be good actually11:51
popeyheretic gord11:52
popeyi would like a 'comic' lens which has scopes for multiple online comics like xkcd, dilbert etc11:53
popeysearch for "wedding" and it finds comics for that topic11:53
popeyor type "today" and get all of todays comics11:53
BigRedSI bet there'll be a meme and a lolcats one before too long11:53
* brunogirin got irc running on phone so no excuse to miss meetings anymore11:53
popeyyay even11:53
davmor2popey: as I say I looked at it but the code was way over my head currently for a novice python guy11:54
gordeven the python lens examples?11:59
davmor2gord: yeah I had a look I'm just not there yet12:00
davmor2gord: don't forget unlike you, I used to drive a Lorry for a living,  I've only been learning python for the last few month in any sort of serious fashion and only to make automation easier :)  I really am a newbie at programming12:04
davmor2gord: I'll get there just not this release :D12:05
gordonjcpdavmor2: really?12:05
gordonjcphave you tried programming python *while* driving a lorry?12:05
gordonjcpit's possible with care and some custom input devices12:05
davmor2gordonjcp: you need all your wits about you with the prats on the road nowadays, especially in a gas tanker :D12:06
gordonjcpthat's true12:09
gordonjcptext-to-speech works well even in a noisy cab12:09
gordonjcpand then I used a gearstick-mounted PTT button from a radio to enter stuff in Morse Code12:10
gordonjcpmostly for controlling an MP3 player, but one day I realised it would work with vim too...12:10
Myrttiprogramming python while you float weightlessly in space is possible, as proven by XKCD12:10
davmor2Myrtti: and back to needing a comics lens again ;)12:18
MyrttiI think you all need help with your unity lenses, but I'm just using my computer here thank you very much12:19
davmor2czajkowski: how was you journey up?12:22
BigRedSaptitude really needs a --dontbestupid switch12:29
popeyremoved linux-image ?12:31
BigRedShaha, not quite12:31
BigRedSevery time I use it it seems to want to uninstall half my system12:31
BigRedSand sometimes it proposes a solution that involves removing two packages, and then when it goes on to say what it's actually going to do, the REMOVED list is about nine screenfuls long...12:32
bigcalmMaybe it doesn't need those things12:33
BigRedSwell, it doesn't *need* them, but I normally want them :)12:33
bigcalmIs it a list of suggested removals or a list of what will be removed?12:33
popeyanyone fancy confirming bug 932718 on 12.04 ?12:34
lubotu3Launchpad bug 932718 in unity "Keyboard overlay gets in the way when zooming" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/93271812:34
BigRedSbigcalm: nah, it's whats to be removed12:34
BigRedSstuff like libapache2-mod-php512:34
BigRedSmy impression's probably not helped by only normally turning to aptitude when apt-get is a bit confused12:34
bigcalmI sometimes have to use aptitude to force a full upgrade (usually linux images being held back)12:35
popeyi never use aptitude12:36
BigRedSnah, nor i generally. Mostly because of it's fondness for breaking things12:36
bigcalmI only seem to need to use it on my parents' viglen mpc-l running 10.0412:38
ikoniaNIS - you lose, I win !12:51
directhe`ypbind && yplol12:56
ikoniaI have defeated it12:57
ikoniahail me, worship me12:58
ikoniaAmazon UK - you fail13:11
BigRedSAWS has mostly put me off buying things from Amazon13:11
ikoniaAWS ?13:11
BigRedSI get a feeling of impending doom at abot the second 'a' of the URL13:11
ikoniacould you explain, I don't know what you are talking about13:12
ikoniaand it sounds curious13:12
BigRedSAmazon's cloudy service13:28
MooDooer czajkowski go out and come back in, you don't greet us like that now do you13:29
czajkowskiI do13:29
MooDoopah!  you're not the czajkowski we know an love, who are you?  get her davmor213:29
MooDoohugs czajkowski :)13:31
ikoniaBigRedS: so you don't use amazon shopping due to your concerns on their aws13:33
ikonia(didn't realise you meant aws as their cloud service rather than a shopping function)13:33
BigRedSikonia: haha, well, every time I type the URL I get flashbacks13:33
BigRedSNah, really I've nothing much against it, but I definitely don't have any particular fondness for the company any more13:34
ikoniaa little dissapointing, thought you may have had a juicy story of whiy it was bad13:34
BigRedSEr, poor I/O, poor networking, poor scalability of their infrastrucutre, poor support13:34
BigRedSbasically it's pretty bad at all of its selling points13:34
ikoniaooh, I know the cloud service....you're bad mouthing that to the wrong person :)13:34
BigRedSoh, you wanted shop horror stories? Nah, none of those13:35
ikoniaI just thought you may have had a juicy story on why AWS->Shopping was linked13:35
BigRedSoh, no13:35
BigRedSwell isn't the shopping hosted on aws?13:35
BigRedSI thought that's what aws grew out of. But, yeah, no bad times with the shoppping thing13:35
ikoniait's hosted on "a" aws platfom, not the public one13:37
BigRedSoh, yeah13:38
ikoniait's a bold statment to not host it on the public platform ;)13:43
BigRedShaha, yeah13:43
BigRedSthough I like the allegation that aws basically grew out of amazon having built a pretty good foundaton for the shop and then renting it out13:45
ikoniait might well be true, I'm just being a bit cheeky as Amazon have annoyed me today13:45
=== sagaci_ is now known as sagaci
BigRedShaha, I've left the amazony stuff now. Amazon don't get to annoy me daily any more13:46
bigcalmmrevell: czajkowski knocking your connection about? :P13:55
czajkowskino I'm being good !13:58
bigcalmWhere's the fun in being good? :)14:00
czajkowskibah I keep setting off hdd by hitting alt with irc14:07
czajkowskipancro: herrrrro fancy seeing you here14:20
pancroczajkowski: hola!14:23
pancroczajkowski: I tend to hang out here but I'm usually quiet14:24
czajkowskipancro: what did you have for todays lunch ?14:24
pancroczajkowski: oops, I haven't posted it yet, have I? kidney bean soup with onions and red wine :) a labour of love, I started soaking the beans last night!14:26
czajkowskiI had yummy sandwiches and fresh fruit14:27
czajkowskiso there :p14:27
czajkowskigord: popey in irssi when you alt 1 is hud jumping out for ye and being annoyingly in the way ?14:27
gorddon't use irssi14:28
czajkowskiclearly :)14:28
gordbut yeah until a fix in compiz lands, hud will launch on other key combinations if you are too quick with them14:28
popeyi dont have hud installed it seems14:28
popeyii  unity          5.2.0-0ubuntu4 Interface designed for efficiency of space a14:28
popeyshould that have it?14:28
popeyor do I need to install it separately?14:28
gordthat won't have it14:28
czajkowskiit landed last night but I alt key for all channels on irc and alt 1 keeps launching hud14:28
gordit didn't land ;) you are running the staging ppa or something14:29
* czajkowski knew gord would do it 14:29
popeygord: get the vertex 3 ssd.. oh my golly14:31
gordpopey, how much did it set you back?14:31
popeytoo much14:31
gordthink i might wait till a US trip and pick one up for half the price ;)14:31
gordgeez, you don't need to read 550MB/s :P14:32
BigRedSAlanBell: what's that CRM software yoyu keep pimping to people?14:32
diploBigRedS, http://www.vtiger.com/ i believe14:36
ikoniaAlanBell: do you have a cms recommendation ?14:44
bigcalmCMSMS or WordPress or Drupal14:46
bigcalmDepends what you need to do with it14:46
czajkowskianyone in here running 12.04 and use a terminal for irc?  alt tabbing through my applications will not display my irc terminal? have to keep restarting it14:46
BigRedSdiplo: aha, ta!14:47
BigRedSczajkowski: I do at home, if you nag me this eve I'll see if I can replicate.14:47
BigRedSI normally do it in guake14:47
czajkowskiso if I alt tab through applications I can see it14:48
czajkowskibut it wont launch14:48
czajkowskiif I click on terminal on the side bar a new terminal pops out14:48
czajkowskiif I minimise every single last applcation14:48
czajkowskithere is my irc window14:48
BigRedSI'll not go into my normal diatribe about working in unity right now, given your new employer :)14:49
czajkowskiBigRedS: good of you14:49
* czajkowski huggles davmor2 14:58
davmor2czajkowski: you tired yet14:58
czajkowskihad tea and bickies so am sorted14:58
* hamitron is trying to cut down15:00
davmor2christel, czajkowski: see when I read that I saw tea and brickies which had a whole different connotation15:03
Azelphurhow do I find out what package provides a binary in /usr/bin?15:05
ikoniaapt-file ?15:06
christeldavmor2: haha15:07
ikoniadavmor2 reads "Dave Amour" to me15:07
Azelphurikonia: hmm, apt-file -f search /usr/bin/java shows nothing15:08
ikoniajava is a symlink check out /etc/alternatives15:08
Azelphurnothing for /etc/alternatives/java either15:09
ikoniaAzelphur: if you do ls -la /usr/bin/java is it a file or a link ?15:10
Azelphurit's a link to /etc/alternatives/java15:10
ikoniaAzelphur: and then ls -la /etc/alternatives/java15:10
Azelphurikonia: the magical trail ends at /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/jre/bin/java which apt-file also doesn't know about15:11
ikonianow that is surprising15:11
ikoniaI'm assuming /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/jre/bin/java is actually a file15:11
Azelphurbut still, I'm mainly trying to get it to use java-7 so if anyone knows what the arg is for update-alternatives that'd be just as handy15:12
ikoniaAzelphur: sudo apt-file update first ?15:12
ikoniaAlanBell: then sudo apt-file search /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/jre/bin/java15:12
ikoniasorry Azelphur ^15:12
ikoniaor /usr/bin/java15:12
Azelphuryep that's got it, ty :P15:13
ikoniathere you go15:13
ikoniathere is no escape15:13
Azelphurand there we go, update alternatives fired off using java 7, much better \o/15:13
=== chalced is now known as chalcedony
popeyhello zleap15:40
zleapsorry was akf15:56
bigcalmQuiet afternoon15:56
=== myrtti is now known as Myrtti
=== liam_ is now known as Guest5582
ubuntuuk-planet[Liam Proven] Still using Ubuntu 10.04? You may find this info about backports of newer kernels very useful. - http://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/28391.html17:07
dauberschoo choo17:17
danfishI'm now running 12.04 on my laptop and cyanogenmod ice cream sandwich - guess that makes me a cutting edge cool kid :P17:22
=== jutnux is now known as wdawd33223
=== wdawd33223 is now known as jutnux
=== jutnux is now known as jutnux_
bigcalmWhere's mrevil when you need him?18:12
bigcalmmrevel, but that's boring18:22
bigcalmmrevell even18:23
czajkowskibattery no longer shows that its being drained18:58
czajkowskiand doesnt show when it's not charging either18:58
czajkowskithat's rather flipping annoying18:58
AlanBellevening all19:01
* AlanBell has no desktop :(19:01
AlanBellI have desktop wallpaper but nothing on it, network manager does appear to have connected to the wireless which is nice19:02
* bigcalm thinks there be gremlins19:02
AlanBelldist-upgrade and a reboot for starters I think19:03
* bigcalm shakes his fist at symfony19:04
bigcalmRespect my view damn it19:05
Azelphurpopey: you have a disco ball? I want one :o19:09
popeymy brother had one in his kitchen, was always a hit at parties19:10
popeyI said I liked it so he bought me one19:10
Azelphurhaha :D19:11
popeythats the motor19:12
davmor2czajkowski: go into power manager and change the settings if that is available now19:12
popeythe ball19:12
MartijnVdSpopey: do you also play 70s disco music?19:13
popeyi do19:13
popeyspotify :D19:13
MartijnVdSLooks like something to attach to an arduino .. :)19:13
jutnuxEvening all19:28
MartijnVdS\o jutnux19:28
CTtechguyanyone here work with Amazon Cloud Services?19:37
CTtechguyI am looking for the best solution to move an ami to a different region19:38
davmor2gord: why o why o why does unity crash when I run ldtp scripts on software center?19:44
davmor2popey: Ha hippy join us in the 80's best of all music ;)19:48
czajkowskibah update gives me tons of erros20:03
czajkowskitonightis not going well20:04
bigcalmczajkowski: I hope you're not working20:04
czajkowskiwatching tv on laptop20:04
bigcalmAh :)20:04
czajkowskibut trying to get the icon to show my battery is charging when plugged in which it currently is not showing20:05
czajkowskidavmor2: need I point out to you A) I am very close by B) I shall see you tomorrow eveing and inflict wrath20:11
davmor2czajkowski: What?20:11
davmor2czajkowski: I said a nice thing and that made you rise to the bait faster than their nasty ones ;)20:14
AlanBellpoor davmor220:15
* AlanBell gets out a very very small violin20:15
davmor2AlanBell: Yeah she's only threatening me cause she feels safe all that way up there in her hotel :D20:16
gordonjcpthe czajkowski in the silver mountain20:17
bigcalmczajkowski: davmor2: Hayley can't make it, so it'll just be me tomorrow night20:18
davmor2AlanBell: http://g.co/maps/ch6rp20:20
AlanBellI don't need your help to stalk czajkowski, I have latitude for that :)20:21
davmor2AlanBell: no point A is me point B is czajkowski  nothing to be scared of at all20:21
bigcalmThat is a little close for comfort20:22
bigcalmI wonder if mrevil would like a lift tomorrow20:22
davmor2bigcalm: he'll be across the road20:23
bigcalmAh, not going home after work is sensible20:23
bigcalmDo we have a time?20:23
davmor2bigcalm: from what I understand they will finish at 6 -ish and meal is a 8-ish not a lot of time ask him tomorrow though20:25
bigcalmOkie dokie20:27
bigcalmHis lack of online presence in the evening is quite unlike most users in here20:28
=== jussio1 is now known as jussi
AlanBellczajkowski: did you find a home for that other ticket?20:31
czajkowskiAlanBell: nope20:33
AlanBellmight be able to relieve you of it, my nephew needs to come or my brother-in-law won't be allowed out20:34
AlanBellgreat, Tomas will love it :)20:36
bigcalmmgdm: considering using blowfish to encrypt data sent in API calls. Is it considered to be a safe method?20:49
mgdmbigcalm: I've done it before, though why not just use HTTPS?20:50
bigcalmmgdm: this will be on an internal network, still worth the time to set up https?20:51
mgdmI would, with cacert or self-signed20:52
bigcalmIt'll be self-signed I think20:53
bigcalmOk, saves me messing with mcrypt20:53
bigcalmYou can't have https vhosts iirc?20:54
AlanBellyou can have one20:57
bigcalmOne per IP20:57
MartijnVdSbigcalm: you can have several20:57
AlanBellone per port, unless you do clever stuff20:57
MartijnVdSit's called SNI20:57
bigcalmApache has changed then?20:57
AlanBell^^ clever stuff20:58
MartijnVdSwell Apache has changed, a little, to support SNI20:58
MartijnVdSbut IE on XP doesn't do SNI20:58
MartijnVdSso if any of your clients is on XP, don't do SNI20:58
bigcalmAh, sod it :)21:00
* bigcalm goes to play Rayman Originals on the Wii21:00
bigcalmA better use of my evening21:00
davmor2bigcalm: no it just means he isn't working right now21:00
bigcalmdavmor2: that would indicate that his social life does not revolve around this channel21:01
davmor2I know I'm normal off line this time of night too though so I can't say too much21:02
davmor2CTtechguy: hello21:08
CTtechguywhats going on?21:15
AzelphurPeople are in IRC, talking about Ubuntu.21:15
AzelphurAnd elephants.21:15
ali1234we never talk about ubuntu :(21:15
AzelphurIndeed :(21:16
CTtechguywhite elephants?21:16
AzelphurYes, white elephants, everywhere.21:16
ali1234except when i;m trolling unity again21:16
brobostigonwe also talk about food and beer,21:16
CTtechguyI like food and beer21:17
brobostigonalso. chilli ala popey, is good.21:18
* CTtechguy is across the pond so not sure what that is21:18
=== mh0- is now known as mh0
brobostigonCTtechguy: popey is a user here, and a major contributer to the community, and he made his own chilli recipe.21:19
popeynah, I'm just some guy, you know21:20
gordhttp://i.imgur.com/wnXpF.jpg might be the greatest keyboard in the world... i don't even care that its pink21:20
brobostigonzaphod beeblebrox, hhgttg.21:20
CTtechguyI read that your group has a lot of get togethers21:20
CTtechguyI cant seem to find a local Ubuntu LUG near me21:21
popeywhere are you based?21:21
AzelphurCTtechguy: probably because your looking for a Ubuntu LUG, you'd have better luck finding a LUG or Linux user group :p21:21
popeycan you be more specific ?21:21
Azelphur(Are there even any Ubuntu LUGS?)21:21
zleapAzelphur, well there are loco teams21:21
Azelphurthat's us *serious face*21:22
CTtechguywe are a small state and only a few user groups21:22
popeyseems quiet21:22
zleapCTtechguy, Where abouts, or can i guess conneticut21:22
zleapsorry if there is a spelling error there21:22
popeyCTtechguy: start one!21:22
CTtechguyyeah not much movement in that group in awhile21:23
Myrttipink mentioned21:23
CTtechguyguess Ill start with ConnecticutTeam mailing list21:26
popeyexcellent idea21:26
popeyalso see #ubuntu-locoteams for the loco council who can give you hints and tips ☺21:27
CTtechguypopey:  thanks for the info!21:29
popeygood luck!21:31
popeyyou're welcome to hang out here too btw21:31
CTtechguyI just might do that...got a real good first impression from you all21:32
* brobostigon is watching an interesting prog, on more4 about a OCD hoarder.21:32
popeyi know one of them21:34
popeydrat, there isnt a more4+121:36
mgdmthat'd be more5, surely21:36
mgdmLike ITV3 is ITV2+121:36
mgdmor something :)21:36
popeyit'll be repeated no doubt21:37
mgdmOr on 4OD, which is actually not bad21:37
popeythe guy I know ripped his kitchen out 15 years ago and never installed a new one21:38
popeyand collects all kind of stuff21:38
brobostigoni have more+1 here.21:38
popeyvirgin doesnt21:38
popeyremoved years ago21:39
popeypoor guy21:46
ali1234considering that google maps has a resolution slightly better than 1 pixel per meter, that claim is somewhat disingenuous21:49
mgdmit's also somewhat disingenuous to say that Google Maps photos are 'from space'21:49
ali1234so basically the whole thing is nonsense21:50
popeydailymail, say no more21:50
gordtechnically inaccurate! the best kind of inaccurate.21:50
mgdm"a mountain of newspapers included 34 years' worth of the Daily Mail21:51
mgdmthat explains a lot21:51
gordthat is a lot of trash21:51
mgdmalso, the DM's site does a ridiculous override thing which means what ends up on your clipboard is not what you selected21:51
mgdmor rather it is, but it has this 'Read more' crap at the bottom21:51
AlanBellwhat is the collective noun for a lot of copies of the Daily Mail?21:52
ali1234mgdm: wow, how the hell doe sit do that??21:52
mgdmali1234: I'm not quite sure, though I've seen it done before21:52
AzelphurHow do I up the OS thread limit?21:52
ali1234Azelphur: probably with ulimit21:52
mgdmali1234: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6344588/how-does-financial-times-add-a-disclaimer-when-pasting-text/6347927#634792721:54
ali1234now i will make a site like commandlinefu except it also adds rm -rf to the end of everything you copy :)21:55
mgdmI better keep quiet about that at work21:57
mgdmthey'll want it too21:57
ali1234is there any legitimate use for "oncopy"21:59
mgdmI can't think of one, however I think there might well be21:59
mgdmI fail to see it right now21:59
czajkowskipopey: whats the magical command line to fix a desktop on ubuntu in case things are a bit messed up22:00
czajkowskithe one with the ^ ?22:00
mgdmsudo apt magic-fixy-fairies --sort-it-out^22:00
popeydepends how its messed up22:00
popeythat only fixes the 'some bits arent installed' issue22:00
popeysudo apt-get update22:01
popeysudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^22:01
czajkowskis/w center is now gone from side bar and battery issue is pita22:01
czajkowskipopey: thanks22:01
ali1234you should use update-manager, it won't remove things like software center and ubuntu-desktop22:01
czajkowskiI'm not laughing :/22:01
ali1234in particlar, when update-manager says there is a problem, you should read what it says, not just go and do it with apt-get :)22:02
ali1234which happily *will* remove software center22:02
popeyi like the warning you get from apt-get when you try to remove everything22:02
popeymakes you type a sentence like 'i really want to do this'22:02
czajkowskicannot seem to get past http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/843639/ this issue on updates22:05
popeythose are warnings not errors22:07
czajkowskipopey: aye but I've no idea why :/ and they weren't there yesterday22:08
czajkowskimaybe I should just sleep22:09
jacobweasy to fix22:09
bigcalmSleep and dream of curry22:09
popeysomeone wrote a script once to get all the keys you're missing iirc22:10
popeyhttp://popey.com/blog/2009/06/05/Easy_Script_To_Get_And_Install_PPA_GPG_Keys/ hehe22:10
jacobwgpg --recv-keys 40976EAF437D05B5 --key-server keyserver.ubuntu.com22:11
* czajkowski hugs popey 22:11
czajkowskijacobw: what does that do ?22:11
jacobwreceives the key id from the keyserver22:12
popeyyay, just run the script here to fix all mine22:12
* jacobw is enjoying tea22:14
* brobostigon is enjoying a guin and tonic.22:15
jacobwhave you ever tried guiness and ribena?22:15
jacobwit sounds awful, but its good :)22:16
brobostigonno, and it doesnt sound very good,22:16
czajkowskinn folks22:16
brobostigonjacobw: what ratio?22:16
brobostigongood night czajkowski o/22:16
AlanBellMyrtti: popey: the onboard model-m theme is arriving in bug #93285522:17
lubotu3Launchpad bug 932855 in onboard (Ubuntu) "New release available: version 0.97.0 - debian source attached" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/93285522:17
AlanBellI think it is the default too22:17
jacobwbrobostigon: something like 9 parts guiness22:17
popeyAlanBell: know of any other OSK's ?22:17
popeyother than onboard and maliit?22:17
jacobwbrobostigon: very little ribena is needed22:17
brobostigonjacobw: guiness 9 / 1 ribena ?22:18
popeyOn Screen Keyboard22:18
jacobwbrobostigon: yeah, it justs takes the edge of the guiness22:18
AlanBellpopey: the gnome one is caribou22:18
* jacobw googles maliit22:18
* popey googles caribou22:18
brobostigonjacobw: i will try a tiny amount,so i dont wreck a whole pint,22:18
popeyoh, not ready22:19
AlanBellyeah, nowhere near onboard standards22:19
ali1234i can't really blame them for not using onboard, it is absolutely awful22:20
AlanBellonboard could be the GNOME on screen keyboard, if it wasn't started as an Ubuntu summer of code project22:20
Myrttiso if I upgrade my tablet on to precise I should be getting that onboard exactly when or already?22:20
ali1234onboard is roughly as good as the oscreen keyboard app on the amiga22:20
popeythere are too few decent OSKs22:21
AlanBellMyrtti: it should go in with the feature freeze rush, before friday22:21
Myrttifinally a good enough reason to upgrade some device into precise22:21
AlanBellali1234: yeah, but by friday it sould be slightly better22:21
ali1234some of the problems of onboard include: does not automatically appear when needed, does not follow the look and feel of the desktop, has too many keys22:21
AlanBellit will pop up when you are in an editable field22:21
AlanBellit has multiple layouts22:21
ali1234multiple layouts are not what is required22:22
ali1234please look at the onscreen keyboard of any recent mobile phone and make a copy of that22:22
AlanBell"does not automatically appear when needed" fixed now22:22
ali1234that is what we actually need22:22
AlanBellcan be done in onboard22:22
popeyalso text prediction22:22
popeyan OSK will need to be _really_ _really_ good to get on any kind of Ubuntu tablet in the future IMHO22:23
AlanBellpeople use that?22:23
popeynormal people do22:23
ali1234please do it then, instead of making layouts to duplicate the IBM model M or whatever22:23
AlanBellI should observe some normal people one day22:23
ali1234a reak OSK is more than just a picture of a keyboard on a screen22:24
AlanBellgo on22:24
ali1234notice that caribou does not have a button for every single key on a real keyboard, for example22:24
AlanBellyeah, that annoys me!22:24
ali1234also notice that it doesn't try to duplicate the way a keyboard is layed out because it serves no purpose on an OSK22:25
AlanBellI went through loads of android keyboards before I found one that could actually type all the keys I wanted to use22:25
popeynormal people dont switch keyboard22:25
popeythey use the one supplied22:25
AlanBellyeah, that was swype22:25
popeyand if the one supplied is crap, they buy a different device22:25
mgdmI liked SwiftKey until it broke :(22:25
ali1234normal people use the one supplied because the one supplied is designed for normal people22:25
AlanBellcouldn't type @22:25
AlanBellothers can't do \ or / or ` or |22:26
ali1234please, android puts @ on the top level of keys22:26
AlanBellswype didn't22:26
popeyiOS can't do `22:26
ali1234i've never used swype, it seems highly counterproductive to use only 1 finger to "type" (or swype)22:27
AlanBellI use the android hackers keyboard, it is just a querty layout and you can switch to other layouts and get to anything you want22:27
AlanBellit makes sense to me (as does onboard) but I do accept I don't know what normal people are like22:28
AlanBellI had no idea that text prediction was anything other than annoyingly useless22:28
AlanBelloh that thing that some keyboards do when they pop up a key above the place you are pressing so you can see it when your finger is in the way, that would be good I suppose22:29
mgdmtext prediction in SwiftKey is reallyg ood, actually22:29
mgdmit learns22:29
AlanBellI tend to think of onboard as being big enough for that not to be important22:29
AlanBelland I don't have a touchscreen22:29
ali1234all OSKs do that22:30
ali1234(except for onboard)22:30
ali1234and caribou which is really more like an IME22:30
ali1234oh and windows mobile can't do ~22:31
AlanBellI am sure that I could do that finger dodging overlay thing, I will put in a feature request for that22:32
* jacobw looks for the ¬ key on his android phone22:33
AlanBellI don't know how predictive text could work, but that might be an interesting feature22:33
jacobwsee 'dasher'22:33
popey*hugs* :D22:33
AlanBelljacobw: yes, I know about dasher, it has some crashes and race conditions in it22:34
AlanBellalways wanted to fix them but I lack the skills22:34
jacobwchannel dennis ritchie22:34
AlanBellonboard can do odd layouts like that, the default ones pull from the keyboard layout files but buttons can be remapped to other things22:37
AlanBellso if you have an azerty keyboard layout then onboard will map the keycaps to what should be on those keys22:37
* directhe` moos. moo22:38
ali1234btw, caribou isn't the gnome default on screen keyboard22:39
mgdmdirecthe`: your ` is showing22:39
directhe`mgdm: not nice to draw attention to a guy's shortcomings22:40
mgdmsorry :(22:40
bigcalmIt is rather short22:40
AlanBellali1234: is it GOK? http://www.gok.ca/shots.html22:40
ali1234might be, it doesn't look anything like that though22:40
ali1234it looks like this: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell-design/plain/mockups/static/onscreen-keyboard.png22:41
directhe`http://cv5.coventrytelegraph.net/gokwan.jpg ?22:41
AlanBellali1234: is that real or just a gimped image?22:42
ali1234that's a mockup22:42
ali1234the real thing looks basically the same though22:42
ali1234looks like a serious contender22:42
AlanBellyeah, caribou is apparently the new hotness from the gnome side of things (or was last time I asked)22:43
AlanBellmaliit is interesting certainly22:43
popeyindeed it is22:44
AlanBellonboard is actually shipping22:44
popeyas it maliit22:44
AlanBellyeah, but not on the precise CD22:44
ali1234maliit is actually shipping on real hardware that has no keyboard :)22:44
brobostigongood night everyone, sleep well.22:44
ali1234can't say the same for ubuntu22:44
brobostigonnight bigcalm22:44
AlanBell!info maliit22:44
lubotu3Package maliit does not exist in oneiric22:45
ali1234you wish22:45
AlanBellnot there22:45
popeyit doesnt exist then, lets not think about it22:45
AlanBellwell for people saying why are we bothering with onboard when maliit is so much better, the reason is maliit isn't in the repos22:46
ali1234oh look, a PPA!22:46
popeythats not a good enough reason22:46
ali1234especially when it's about 10 years more advanced than anything that actually is in the repos22:46
AlanBellso lets get it in the repos and if it is better than onboard we put it on the CD22:47
ali1234ok. well, i have no idea how to do that.....22:47
popeyI do.22:47
bigcalmInsider knowledge!22:48
popeywe ask daviey22:48
jacobwmkdir maliit, vi maliit/DEBIAN/control .. etc etc22:49
ali1234it's already packaged22:49
jacobwhmm, then i guess ubuntu just need to accept it ;)22:49
AlanBellshould go in debian first22:50
AlanBellnot that onboard is in Debian, but it is nice to have stuff arrive that way22:50
bigcalmAren't there things in Ubuntu that aren't in Debian?22:50
AlanBellmaliit is c++ :(22:52
ali1234oh noes22:52
bigcalmErm, ignore me :)22:52
ali1234why is this a problem?22:52
AlanBellbecause I am rubbish and scared of languages that let me do stuff that crashes22:53
mgdmSo you're scared of all programming languages?22:53
ali1234but... you like gtk?22:53
mgdmIncluding Logo?22:53
mgdm('cos you can crash the turtle into the wall...)22:53
AlanBellthose turtles with pens!22:53
bigcalmI miss Logo22:54
AlanBellI like python22:54
ali1234python can crash22:54
ali1234happens all the time22:54
bigcalmShhhh, you'll spook him22:54
AlanBellyeah, but it doesn't segfault it stops with a nice trace of what happened22:54
ali1234except when it deadlocks22:55
ali1234or produces a never ending stack trace22:55
mgdmand except when it segfaults22:55
ali1234or just plain segfaults, yes22:55
AlanBellyeah, but you shouldn't be able to do that22:55
AlanBellwith C that is the normal mode of operation22:55
ali1234why not?22:55
AlanBellpointer arithmetic is just not something I want to think about22:56
ali1234so use C++?22:56
ali1234only crufty old Gtk actually requires you to deal with pointers22:56
bigcalmAlanBell: did you not have an 8bit machine in the 80s and code on it?22:57
AlanBellyeah, speccy and amiga22:57
AlanBellwell amiga was 16 bit obviously22:57
ali1234maliit is actually written in Qt22:58
ali1234it contains absolutely no pointer arithmetic at all22:58
bigcalmalt+click+drag should move windows in all OSes23:00
bigcalmOh dear, what will I do when the hud gets here?23:00
ali1234threaten to stop using ubuntu forever23:00
popeystill use alt+click+drag?23:00
bigcalmali1234: too obvious :P23:00
bigcalmpopey: I know little of the hud other than alt is a problem23:01
popeyits not finished23:01
AlanBellI am sure it will be sorted out23:01
ali1234maybe we could have two keyboards23:01
AlanBellalt+prtscr is going to have to work really, so everything else will23:01
ali1234one for unity keyboard shortcuts, and the other for actually doing things23:01
popeyopenoffice mouse?23:02
MyrttiI couldn't even figure out how I'm supposed to use maliit23:02
bigcalmI've just told my windows 2008 server to apply updates. I really shouldn't be so worried every time I do this :(23:02
ali1234i think everyone is wrong. clearly a piano keyboard is the most efficient way to control a computer23:03
MyrttiI had it installed on the tablet but I just never understood how it was supposed to work23:03
mgdmpopey: haha23:03
mgdmpopey: I'd forgotten about that23:03
davmor2popey: that's not any mouse, that's a might mouse23:03
AlanBellali1234: onboard could do a piano layout23:03
* mgdm strokes his trackpad23:03
bigcalmmgdm: been playing angry birds then?23:04
AlanBelloh, also what I want an onscreen keyboard to do is multitouch chording layouts23:04
mgdmbigcalm: once or twice :)23:04
bigcalmmgdm: it appears to be the most used app on my Xoom23:04
mgdmI'm tempted to get a Morse key and hook it up to USB23:04
AlanBellso you could type stenographic chords on it23:04
mgdmgordonjcp: you've probably done that, right? :)23:04
AlanBellbut I think this may be another area where me and normal people have a different idea of what is useful23:04
AlanBellI am guessing predictive text is more useful than multitouch chording right?23:05
ali1234yes significantly23:08
ali1234and not really predictive but some kind of autocorrect23:08
ali1234if it learns then all the better23:09
AlanBellmaliit doesn't use the system keyboard mappings it seems23:09
ali1234of course it doesn't23:09
popeythe virtual keyboard shouldn't try to look like a physical keyboard23:09
ali1234the layout of a full  hardware qwerty keyboard is completely nonsensical for an OSK23:09
davmor2AlanBell: I'm pretty sure I saw a piano keyboard for gnome touch being demoed somewhere23:09
popeya physical keyboard is designed for 10 fingers always sat on it (optimally)23:10
popeymost OSKs should work optimally for one or at most two digits23:10
ali1234one or two thumbs usually23:10
AlanBellyeah, I figured on a tablet you could touch type23:10
ali1234depending if it is being held landscape or portrait23:10
AlanBelldoes maliit use at-spi to find out if you are in an editable field do you know?23:12
ali1234no idea23:12
popeydunno how it does it23:12
ali1234i was looking for pointer arithmetic23:12
AlanBelland how do you drag it around or does it stay anchored to the screen I wonder23:13
AlanBellactually I could install it rather than reading about it couldn't I23:13
popeythere's 3 ppas23:13
popeyalso there is #maliit ☺23:14
popeyand they're very friendly and active23:14
ali1234there is code for prediction and autocorrect in here23:14
popeyit is after all a framework upon which other keyboards are built23:15
ali1234given that it is designed for a real commercial product that received favourable reviews i expect it works fairly well23:15
popeyit was used on the Nokia N9 and N950 AIUI23:15
popeyits also the base of Swiftkey23:16
mgdmit's nice23:16
ali1234"social AI keyboard"23:16
ali1234does that mean it will turn everything i type into "lol wat u sayin"23:16
popeynah, it automatically puts everything you type into twitter23:16
mgdmyou can hook it up to your FB and your Twitter and it can learn from your typing style23:17
popeyi see they put a release out a week ago23:17
AlanBellas it is qt it could in theory be stuffed into the unity2d frame thing that is like the nux layer on unity3d23:17
popeynice and active23:17
mgdmthere's a mode where you can set it so that space will always insert a word, which can type reasonably coherent sentences, actually23:17
ali1234     23:17
popeythat works then23:17
mgdmthough if all you say is 'lol wtf bbq wat u up 2' then that's what it will type23:18
ali1234i like _ -> i like swiftkey23:18
ali1234this is like the google bubble except a million times worse23:18
AlanBellyay, I crashed maliit23:19
jacobwit lowers the quality of all your typing to your hastily written facebook updates23:19
ali1234because it is a filter on the output instead of a filter on the input23:19
popeyfile a bug :p23:19
AlanBelloh, no I didn't, just got it in a funny popup mode to select some alternate keys23:19
AlanBelldoesn't appear to work as an independent on-screen keyboard though23:20
ali1234of course it doesn't23:20
ali1234nobody actually wants that23:20
popeyit can work as a transparent overlay on top of the desktop23:21
popeywhich is nice23:21
AlanBellmaliit-keyboard-viewer is an application with a text field and keyboard under it, so you type stuff into that text field then what, copy and paste to somewhere else?23:21
ali1234s/nice/what it should actually do/23:21
popeywell, yes ☺23:21
AlanBellhow do I put it into direct input mode?23:21
ali1234AlanBell: you write a plugin that causes it to appear whenever the user clicks in a text field and then automatically send the input back to the text field23:22
ali1234you know, like every OSK ever23:22
popeyor you re-use an existing one23:22
AlanBellok, so is there one of those?23:23
ali1234for meego? yes23:23
AlanBellso it doesn't work23:23
ali1234i don't know23:23
* popey checks his other machine that has maliit on23:23
ali1234keyboard viewer is a demo tool23:25
ali1234maliit is only the keyboard part23:25
popeymaliit-server -unconditional-show -bypass-wm-hint23:26
popeytry that23:26
gordremoved the last vga cable still in use in my house, end of an era really23:28
jacobwok, i've sent emails to 20 advertisers on gumtree, one has to respond :|23:28
popeyjacobw: what you buying?23:29
jacobwlooking for a new room23:29
jacobwflatshare even23:29
daftykinsi'm getting on the property selling bandwagon soon23:31
daftykinsfixing up my place down here in Portsmouth ahead of getting rid :)23:31
popeydaftykins: moving back to jersey?23:31
daftykinsi'd been living with my oldies back on Guernsey since i graduated in '08, but getting kicked out now so i'm kind of a free agent :D23:32
daftykinsused to rent this place out but it's a lot more hassle than i want now23:32
AlanBellpopey: ok, it works now, kind of23:33
ali1234gnome-control-center = segfault land, lol23:35
gordis segfault land like disney land?23:35
ali1234yes except less abhorrent23:36
AlanBellit doesn't clean up the massive orange fingerdodge squares23:36
AlanBellwhen they fall outside the maliit window23:36
* popey points AlanBell at #maliit23:37
AlanBellI can kind of see the point about an on-screen keyboard like that, simplified until it hurts23:37
popeyyou're thinking of different use case tho aren't you?23:37
ali1234the point?23:37
popeyyou're thinking of 'replace the keyboard' use case23:37
popeynot the 'type text messages into a device' use case23:38
ali1234it's not about use cases23:39
AlanBellI thought the keys not being all square and not offset like a proper keyboard in caribou was it being hopelessly primitive23:39
AlanBellwell it is kind of about use-cases23:39
AlanBellit is *desireable* to have a primitive keyboard23:39
popeyfrom an a11y pov you want ` and @ and stuff23:40
AlanBellorca isn't23:40
popeybut from a tablet use case you often don't23:40
ali1234the use case you are trying to solve is artificial23:40
ali1234if people wanted a full keyboard they would plug one in23:40
ali1234the only time i ever use ` is when writing shell scripts23:40
AlanBellalso orca does a load of mouse stuff23:41
ali1234i thought orca wasa screen reader?23:41
AlanBellonboard now has hover mouse stuff built in, which is granted a bit of an odd place for it, but there it is23:41
gordif oyu are following an internet guide, ` can be quite useful23:41
ali1234onboard solves the problem "i have a full desktop PC running a traditional desktop OS and for some reason I have unplugged the keyboard but i still want to use the computer fully"23:42
ali1234which is a problem that almost nobody ever has23:42
AlanBellI can see the point of this other type of keyboard23:43
bigcalmo2 Joggler. Plug in a USB kb to get things running, on screen keyboard after that23:43
AlanBellon my phone I am annoyed that the keyboards are not as good as onboard, I would *love* onboard for android23:44
ali1234onboard wouldn't even fit on the screen23:44
ali1234it would have scrollbars23:44
AlanBellit would fit, the buttons would be small23:44
ali1234then it would be unusable23:45
AlanBellmaliit doesn't seem to rescale at all23:45
AlanBellhttps://market.android.com/details?id=org.pocketworkstation.pckeyboard&hl=en that is what I use23:46
AlanBellI don't like primitive keyboards, but I do accept that most people would do23:48
ali1234that might work on a tablet23:48
ali1234no way you could press those button in portrait mode on a galaxy s23:48
ali1234not without a capacitive stylus anyway23:48
AlanBellyes I can23:49
AlanBellusing it now on a galaxy S223:49
AlanBellirssi in byobu and a full 5 row keyboard23:50
popeyand AlanBell has surprisingly fat thumbs23:50
AlanBelland back to the laptop23:50
popeythere's so many android OSKs23:50
popeyshame we cant easliy use/port them23:50
AlanBellI do normally use the 4 row layout in portrait mode but that was with the full 5 row one23:50
AlanBellI guess they are java things compiled the dalvik way23:54
AlanBellcould they run under openjdk?23:54
ali1234hell no23:54
popeynot sure I'd want jdk on a tablet under arm23:55
ali1234they should work in this though: http://openmobile.co/products.php23:55
popeyinteresting product23:56
AlanBellso what is that? a dalvik runtime?23:56
AlanBellwhy not have openjdk on arm? or at least the JRE part of it?23:57
popeyis it dead?23:57
popeyno blog updates for ages23:57
ali1234dead? it's a commercial product23:58
AlanBellwhich is no insulation against deadness23:58
ali1234it's not dead.23:59
ali1234try the news page instead of the blog23:59

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