| snap-l | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U13xOvDa19U | 03:01 |
|---|---|---|
| rick_h | morning | 11:45 |
| rick_h | hello DotD, I think I'll be buying you today | 11:45 |
| mydogsnameisrudy | morning | 11:51 |
| snap-l | Good morning | 11:52 |
| snap-l | That was just released, wasn't it? | 11:53 |
| snap-l | The DotD | 11:53 |
| rick_h | snap-l: yea, I was waiting for it to come out | 11:53 |
| rick_h | so even better, clear off the wishlist at 50% off | 11:53 |
| snap-l | Yeah, I believe O'Reilly has figured out this impulse buy thing. :) | 11:55 |
| mydogsnameisrudy | buy now pay later | 11:56 |
| rick_h | this is depressing: link from canonical voices http://cityblogger.com/archives/2012/02/15/which-is-less-expensive-amazon-or-self-hosted | 12:22 |
| Wolfger | morning | 12:27 |
| Wolfger | Machine Learning? rick_h is going to bring Skynet down upon us... :-( | 12:30 |
| rick_h | that's the plan! | 12:30 |
| rick_h | that's what bookie is, my attempt to build skynet | 12:31 |
| Wolfger | Ahnold will find Sarah Connor via her web surfing habits. | 12:34 |
| snap-l | rick_h: IS the gigaom link depressing? | 13:41 |
| rick_h | the cityblogger thing is' like 80% ads on the page. THe content is squished to the left 5 words wide | 13:42 |
| rick_h | and this is from a canonical employee sharing on the planet like that | 13:43 |
| rick_h | just depressing it's so giant ad heavy | 13:43 |
| brousch | gotta pay the bills yo | 13:43 |
| snap-l | rick_h: Ah, I have adblocker installed, so I didn't see it. :) | 13:45 |
| snap-l | And yes, that was pretty light on content (on both counts) | 13:45 |
| rick_h | ah, I try to run without, just flash block so that I don't go total freetard on the net | 13:45 |
| snap-l | No, not noscript, adblock. :) | 13:46 |
| snap-l | Makes visiting places like detnews.com livable | 13:46 |
| brousch | also essential on my phone | 13:48 |
| snap-l | http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ppre5/the_new_d_online_forum_software_written_in_d/ <- Apparently NNTP Is making a comeback | 13:48 |
| snap-l | And I for one would love to see NNTP everywhere. | 13:48 |
| nullspace | snap-l: so how goes the new job? | 13:49 |
| snap-l | nullspace: I'm not ready to throttle rick_h yet. :) | 13:49 |
| rick_h | only because they've not made him work on my code :P | 13:49 |
| nullspace | nice | 13:49 |
| snap-l | I'm enjoying it so far, but I'm now digging into some of the data loading scripts | 13:49 |
| snap-l | and excel can die in a dire | 13:49 |
| snap-l | fire, even | 13:50 |
| rick_h | ugh | 13:50 |
| nullspace | what are you using to parse it? | 13:50 |
| snap-l | Well, it's already being parsed | 13:50 |
| snap-l | but I'd like to come up with a better way to detect it, and parse it | 13:51 |
| snap-l | Python handles two out of the three formats that I've seen pretty cleanly. | 13:51 |
| snap-l | but there's no "one-true-XLS" parser out there. | 13:51 |
| nullspace | we are about to break into that ourselves but we are going with an apache foundation project | 13:51 |
| snap-l | nullspace: Which project? | 13:52 |
| nullspace | I think POI | 13:52 |
| snap-l | Oh, purdy | 13:53 |
| nullspace | we are already using it to write to excel and it's awesome, well as awesome as one can get with writing to excel | 13:53 |
| snap-l | Java API for MIcrosoft documents | 13:53 |
| nullspace | it's always a messy job | 13:53 |
| snap-l | I think I just wretched a bit in my mouth | 13:53 |
| brousch | snap-l: i've had good luck with xlrd | 13:54 |
| snap-l | brousch: Yeah, and the openpyxlst (sp?) looks very nice | 13:54 |
| nullspace | snap-l: if you saw our how fast our pages run you'd not be wreching | 13:54 |
| snap-l | there's apparently a straight XML (non-zipped) format that Excel upchucks which unfortunately doesn't have a module that can handle it | 13:55 |
| snap-l | nullspace: Java API for MS Documents is wretch-worthy. :) | 13:55 |
| brousch | switch everyone to openoffice ;) | 13:55 |
| snap-l | It's like coating a plate of shit with maggots. :) | 13:55 |
| snap-l | brousch: Were that I were king, this would be a non-issue | 13:56 |
| snap-l | ODF, or to the gallows with you. | 13:56 |
| nullspace | snap-l: if maggots and shot tasted like steak then you might be right | 13:56 |
| snap-l | nullspace: IF you're hungry enough, anything can taste good. :) | 13:56 |
| nullspace | the entire report generating file is only 230 lines | 13:58 |
| nullspace | snap-l: so what is that you against java again? | 13:59 |
| snap-l | nullspace: I'm not a fan, no | 13:59 |
| rick_h | wait, did someone ask for a bitch list against java? | 13:59 |
| nullspace | why exactly, I'm not trying to convert | 13:59 |
| rick_h | this is going to take a while...how many pages max do I get? | 14:00 |
| brousch | rick_h: please use a pastebin | 14:00 |
| rick_h | brousch: think of the web servers please, accepting that many MB over POST is going to hurt! | 14:00 |
| nullspace | rick_h: you know your phone is running java right? | 14:00 |
| rick_h | nullspace: yep! and I've not written a single program for my phone that wasn't python + web :) | 14:01 |
| rick_h | nullspace: you know your linux install runs C right? Surely you should be writing all things in C! | 14:01 |
| snap-l | nullspace: The biggest current reason is that Oracle controls the fate of Java. | 14:01 |
| rick_h | ooh, I like these types of arguments, what's next? | 14:01 |
| nullspace | rick_h: not what I'm saying | 14:01 |
| snap-l | so it's impossible to distribute Sun's Java without going through Oracle | 14:02 |
| rick_h | no, biggest current reason is that it's a bear to code in and a pita to work with | 14:02 |
| snap-l | And the only other recourse is to distribute Open JDK | 14:02 |
| rick_h | it's like ergonomics, sure people get by with crap chairs, but man, a nice chair sure makes the work day better | 14:02 |
| nullspace | snap-l: I was attrached by the overwhelming number of apache projects and most are in java | 14:02 |
| snap-l | nullspace: That's great for you. :) | 14:02 |
| snap-l | Every time I've waded inthe Java pool, I feel disgusted | 14:03 |
| rick_h | and I hear that most MS projects are written in C#, and most github projects are in ruby | 14:03 |
| rick_h | ooh, another fun one. You noticed that communities seem to stick around the same ideas. | 14:03 |
| nullspace | rick_h: makes sense that communities would do that | 14:05 |
| brousch | estimated monstly cost for the grpug site on heroku is still $0 | 14:07 |
| brousch | nice | 14:07 |
| snap-l | brousch: Very cool | 14:08 |
| rick_h | brousch: woot | 14:08 |
| snap-l | Let me put that up on reddit. :) | 14:08 |
| brousch | heh | 14:08 |
| * brousch starts looking into caching | 14:08 | |
| nullspace | snap-l: yes the thought that oracle could do a number of things that would poision Java but I see all those as means to loose money and have people quickly abandon the platform | 14:08 |
| snap-l | nullspace: s/could/are doing/ | 14:09 |
| snap-l | Sorry, is doing. | 14:09 |
| nullspace | I have yet to see that | 14:09 |
| nullspace | maybe I missed an article | 14:09 |
| snap-l | Patent lawsuit against Google for Dalvek | 14:10 |
| snap-l | Revoking the OSS distribution license. | 14:10 |
| nullspace | hmm looks like a money grab, I think oracle will loose on that one | 14:10 |
| snap-l | nullspace: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/12/java-to-be-removed-from-ubuntu-uninstalled-from-user-machines/ | 14:11 |
| snap-l | I think this is just the tip of the iceberg | 14:12 |
| snap-l | Oracle does not know how to be a nice OSS citizen | 14:13 |
| nullspace | snap-l: I think to understand Ellison you have to be just as crazy as him | 14:13 |
| brousch | s/crazy/greedy/ | 14:13 |
| nullspace | brousch: no he is crazy | 14:14 |
| snap-l | Right, so why would I want to buy into an ecosystem that requires me to be a man that I despise? | 14:14 |
| snap-l | When the language isn't that hot to begin with, and the only compelling part is the JVM? | 14:14 |
| brousch | you don't have to understand him to use his stuff, you just have to pay him | 14:14 |
| snap-l | I don't need to hit my hand with a hammer every morning to remember that it hurts. | 14:15 |
| brousch | pay fo what you use, you damn freetard! | 14:15 |
| snap-l | The only saving grace is that Sun in it's dying throes OSSesd a lot of stuff | 14:15 |
| snap-l | So now we have Libreoffice, a dozen+ MySQL forks, and VirtualBox OSE | 14:16 |
| snap-l | and OpenJDK | 14:17 |
| nullspace | OpenJDK seems to be working just fine for us | 14:18 |
| jrwren | i just bought a usb tv device with no linux support. i fail. | 14:18 |
| rick_h | you're supposed to ask devin for the right one first | 14:19 |
| rick_h | since he makes/made them and all that | 14:19 |
| brousch | jrwren: as punishment you must feed, clothe, bathe, and house RMS for 1 week | 14:19 |
| rick_h | where did I put mine hmmm | 14:19 |
| jrwren | rick_h: i read that gigom article yesterday. I found it lacking on lots of points. | 14:19 |
| snap-l | jrwren: Gee, a tech news site with lacking points? | 14:19 |
| snap-l | jrwren: TO THE BLOGS, BATMAN! | 14:20 |
| rick_h | jrwren: yea, I liked when aws put out their reply and cut the costss more | 14:20 |
| rick_h | http://aws.typepad.com/aws/2012/02/be-careful-when-comparing-aws-costs.html | 14:20 |
| snap-l | Anyone else find it a titch ironic that AWS is using typepad? | 14:21 |
| rick_h | no, they build servers, not blogging platforms :) | 14:21 |
| rick_h | and maybe typepad is a customer? | 14:21 |
| snap-l | maybe. | 14:21 |
| jrwren | rofl. | 14:21 |
| jrwren | probably | 14:22 |
| snap-l | rick_h: But they should be scaling the shit out of a Wordpress instance. :) | 14:22 |
| jrwren | ok... color me impressed... those D forums pages to load fast. | 14:22 |
| jrwren | probably not as much becuase of D as it is developers attn to detail | 14:22 |
| jrwren | but I like it. | 14:22 |
| snap-l | "AND LOOK, WE'RE NOT EVEN USING FASTCGI" | 14:23 |
| snap-l | I wish all forum software used NNTP | 14:23 |
| jrwren | rofl. | 14:23 |
| jrwren | they aren't using fastcgi? they should be. | 14:23 |
| snap-l | jrwren: That's the power of Amazon AWS | 14:24 |
| jrwren | how so? | 14:24 |
| jrwren | maybe they are using mod_d | 14:24 |
| snap-l | (I'm being facetious) | 14:24 |
| snap-l | You moved on to the D forums before I finished my "Amazon scaling the shit out of a wordpress install" | 14:24 |
| jrwren | lol. | 14:25 |
| jrwren | i see. | 14:25 |
| jrwren | yeah... shit AWS can't do... scale the shit out of a wordpress install :) | 14:25 |
| nullspace | snap-l: I consider you lucky that you don't have to support both xls and xlsx, we have a bunch of Asian distributors that still use office XP | 14:27 |
| rick_h | nullspace: oh he does :) | 14:27 |
| nullspace | ouch | 14:27 |
| snap-l | nullspace: That's the point. I have to support three different formats. | 14:27 |
| snap-l | xls blobs, xls XML, and xlsx. | 14:28 |
| nullspace | xls is the real bitch | 14:28 |
| brousch | you can't require them to send you something reasonable? | 14:28 |
| snap-l | brousch: This is a customer site. :) | 14:28 |
| snap-l | This is "reasonable" | 14:28 |
| jrwren | http://aws.typepad.com/aws/2012/02/be-careful-when-comparing-aws-costs.html I like the "No Administrative Costs" point the best :) | 14:29 |
| nullspace | brousch: all they see is values, they have no idea what is takes to move it from one place to another | 14:29 |
| brousch | only accept CSV or something | 14:30 |
| snap-l | brousch: See above. | 14:30 |
| rick_h | yea, they love to send around 20 sheet workbooks | 14:30 |
| jrwren | seems like someone could make a few bucks (and only a few bucks) a month doing a conversion service. e.g. you send the web service an xls and it sends you back... openoffice format, or xlsx or csv | 14:30 |
| snap-l | jrwren: I'd be happy if it sent back a mysql dump | 14:31 |
| jrwren | table per sheet ? | 14:31 |
| snap-l | and when I'm king, there will be no data exports, only database connections. | 14:31 |
| brousch | adam williams in the grpug has an extensive system for converting those things | 14:31 |
| jrwren | should it expand the formula or just send you formula as values? | 14:31 |
| jrwren | and when I'm king, there will be no database connections, only well documented rest services | 14:32 |
| snap-l | jrwren: Long live the king | 14:32 |
| brousch | he's made it so he can create a template for each customer format and then handle it the same way | 14:32 |
| snap-l | brousch: That's awesome, save for this is just one customer. :) | 14:32 |
| brousch | ah | 14:33 |
| brousch | he processes data from hundreds of vendors so he created a generalized solution | 14:33 |
| snap-l | And that's wise. | 14:33 |
| snap-l | I found one python magic script that looked promising | 14:35 |
| snap-l | save for everything came back as "data" | 14:35 |
| snap-l | Ah, here's another one | 14:36 |
| * snap-l gleefully wants to have "import magic" at the top of this file. :) | 14:37 | |
| snap-l | BREAKING: Random Ubuntu developer asks followers for restaurant suggestions. By unanimity, decides to eat on "Unity sucks, I hope you die!" -- FOSSNews | 14:54 |
| ColonelPanic001 | heh | 15:07 |
| Blazeix | a distant second was "Why did you kill Kubuntu!?" | 15:12 |
| ColonelPanic001 | >: - | | 15:17 |
| brousch | /join kubuntu-us-mi | 15:18 |
| brousch | oops | 15:18 |
| Wolfger | brousch: why did you leave the channel? | 15:22 |
| brousch | because it was a bad joke :P | 15:22 |
| brousch | no need to fork yet | 15:23 |
| Wolfger | There's 2 of us in there. Come join the fun :-) | 15:23 |
| Wolfger | why does Firefox keep throwing twitter.com cert exception errors at me, regardless of the fact I don't have any twitter-related windows open? | 15:32 |
| Wolfger | I wiped my history, cookies, and cache... | 15:32 |
| brousch | your company is MitMing you | 15:33 |
| Wolfger | MitMing? | 15:33 |
| Wolfger | oh | 15:34 |
| brousch | man in the middle | 15:34 |
| Wolfger | well yeah, but why would FF even be trying to get to twitter? | 15:34 |
| brousch | to autotweet every page you visit to the IT department | 15:36 |
| Wolfger | LOL | 15:37 |
| Wolfger | unlikely | 15:37 |
| Wolfger | Twitter was suddenly un-verboten last week when they wanted us to go vote on the Chrysler ads for best Super Bowl commercial... | 15:37 |
| Wolfger | and now it's verboten again, so the MitM attack on twitter, FB, etc is back in place | 15:38 |
| Wolfger | but that should not (and never previously did) affect me when I'm just on Gmail and IRCCloud | 15:38 |
| snap-l | Wolfger: Seriously? That's pathetic. | 15:43 |
| Wolfger | snap-l: what, the "go vote for us please"? Yeah... | 15:45 |
| Wolfger | we were even encouraged to vote multiple times | 15:49 |
| Wolfger | stuff those ballot boxes, guys | 15:49 |
| snap-l | Yeah, because nobody will notice all of these votes coming from chrysler.com | 15:50 |
| snap-l | If there is a soundtrack that makes me want to program, it's the Tron soundtrack (from 1982) | 15:52 |
| jrwren | Wolfger: its probably every page you visit pinging back to twitter to prep for those "tweet this" tags on the page. | 15:59 |
| jrwren | facebook does the samething. | 16:00 |
| jrwren | its one of many reasons i run noscript | 16:00 |
| snap-l | Yeah, those dippy little bugs / tags are a PITA | 16:05 |
| snap-l | funny to see the designers that plan for it, and the ones that don't. | 16:05 |
| tjagoda | Woot | 16:07 |
| tjagoda | Sysadmin Opening @ Canonical | 16:07 |
| snap-l | Yeah, saw that | 16:08 |
| tjagoda | CANONICAL, I WILL HAVE YOU | 16:10 |
| jrwren | why do you want to work for canonical? | 16:11 |
| brousch | all the cool kids are doing it | 16:18 |
| tjagoda | Canonical is changing the face of teh linuks | 16:18 |
| tjagoda | I am a fan of working diligently in support of that | 16:19 |
| tjagoda | I am especially a fan of getting paid for that | 16:19 |
| jrwren | cool answer. | 16:23 |
| tjagoda | If you ever use it, I'll have to kill you ;) | 16:37 |
| snap-l | LIstening to A Clockwork Orange's soundtrack is probably not the wisest move while wading through this code. | 16:38 |
| Wolfger | jrwren: Yeah, I run noscript as well. :-p | 16:46 |
| Wolfger | tjagoda: if you are a fan of "working diligently in support of changing the face of Linux", then why did you bail out of Ubuntu when they made some changes? ;-) | 16:48 |
| snap-l | Wolfger: Shhhhh | 16:52 |
| snap-l | Never let a good story get in the way of the facts. :) | 16:52 |
| Wolfger | I didn't | 16:53 |
| Wolfger | I think you meant to say the opposite | 16:53 |
| Wolfger | :-) | 16:53 |
| snap-l | bah | 16:53 |
| snap-l | I stand by what I meant to say | 16:54 |
| tjagoda | I still use ubuntu | 17:06 |
| tjagoda | I just use a different desktop environment | 17:06 |
| jrwren | i need a LGPL license with an iOS static linking exception :) | 17:10 |
| jrwren | i still use ubuntu too | 17:11 |
| jrwren | and I use a different deaktop environment. windows and osx | 17:11 |
| rick_h | umm heh | 17:12 |
| snap-l | jrwren: please to be telling me the results of `cat /proc/cpuinfo` on said Windows and OSX desktop environments. | 17:13 |
| rick_h | snap-l: how dare you make him stoop to the cmd line. The cmd line is a bug! | 17:13 |
| snap-l | rick_h: Ah, my bad | 17:14 |
| snap-l | OPen nautilus, move to /proc/cpuinfo and double-click | 17:14 |
| snap-l | http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/topics/security/javacpufeb2012-366318.html | 17:16 |
| rick_h | wheee | 17:17 |
| snap-l | Reason #454623 why Oracle needs to DIAF: https://support.oracle.com/CSP/main/article?cmd=show&type=NOT&id=1404863.1 | 17:21 |
| snap-l | Go on, click on that link | 17:21 |
| rick_h | Sign Up for a free Oracle Web account | 17:22 |
| snap-l | Yes, to find out what's in the support notes | 17:23 |
| snap-l | ie: what changed. | 17:23 |
| snap-l | Sometimes I think the toy collectible market goes way too far: http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/collectibles/ec60/ | 17:32 |
| rick_h | woot, loving ec2 test/landing. landing 4 branches at once and my machine doesn't have to run4 sets of tests at once yay | 17:32 |
| snap-l | Does it spin up four instances? | 17:33 |
| rick_h | yea | 17:33 |
| rick_h | 4 large ec2 instances | 17:33 |
| tjagoda | snap-l: whats wrong with a little molding? | 17:34 |
| snap-l | tjagoda: Nothing, but it's just a little... what's the word?... creepy | 17:34 |
| tjagoda | If I get hired by Geek.net or Canonical, I will buy this for my home office: http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/collectibles/e9b8/ | 17:35 |
| jrwren | rick_h: oh EFF YOU! not having /proc is one thing, not having cmdline is completely different! | 17:49 |
| rick_h | :) | 17:49 |
| jrwren | rick_h: that said, you are one of the few people in the world that i've met that probably has better cmdline fu than me :) | 17:49 |
| rick_h | jrwren: not sure on that. I'm just very happy with my 10% | 17:50 |
| jrwren | 10% ? | 17:50 |
| jrwren | i just love cmdline and feel like i'm pretty good at it. | 17:50 |
| rick_h | every tool, find the 10% you use all the time and kill it | 17:50 |
| jrwren | does that go for your wood working tools too? | 17:50 |
| rick_h | I know maybe 10% of other masters, but happy with my 10% to make myself productive | 17:50 |
| rick_h | jrwren: definitely, you get into comfy patterns with how you use things | 17:51 |
| rick_h | not sure on the 10% thing | 17:51 |
| snap-l | rick_h knows 10 commands, but he types them faster than anyone I know. ;) | 17:51 |
| rick_h | I was more thinking of things like vim, shell, etc | 17:51 |
| jrwren | i feel like i actually know more than 10% of bash and coreutils and there are things that I know I don't know... its things that i don't know that i don't know that i'm not sure abou t;P | 17:51 |
| rick_h | right, well I guess I'm saying less "know of" and more "use regularaly" | 17:51 |
| snap-l | jrwren: Yeah, that's the rub | 17:51 |
| jrwren | i'm thinking purely shell and coreutils | 17:51 |
| jrwren | i'm not counting vim... vim is too huge :) | 17:52 |
| rick_h | except with spell correct in there | 17:52 |
| rick_h | vim is as large as shell/cmd line fu I'd think | 17:52 |
| jrwren | larger. | 17:52 |
| rick_h | anyway, I think you probably know more cmd line stuff than me | 17:52 |
| jrwren | amount of vim knowledge is far larger than shell+coreutils | 17:52 |
| rick_h | but anyway, I was just making a joke on the cmd line thing | 17:53 |
| jrwren | doubtful. you actually made the zsh leap. I'm back on bash and I don't even leverage completion providers much | 17:53 |
| jrwren | a joke at my expense :( | 17:53 |
| Wolfger | brousch and anybody who cares: figured out my twitter.com MitM issues... Firefox was set to start session with all the tabs from previous session. Even though nothing using twitter was open, and even though I cleaned history, cache, etc, FF was somehow keeping twitter as something that needed to be loaded. | 17:53 |
| jrwren | i earned it by using windows and mac | 17:53 |
| rick_h | espeicially because I was curious how snap-l would move to respond given that any response would be WM specific | 17:53 |
| rick_h | and thus make your point a bit more | 17:53 |
| Wolfger | changed FF to start with blank page, problem magically gone | 17:53 |
| rick_h | if you ditch the cmd line you really can almost say ubuntu/osx/win7 is a DE | 17:54 |
| rick_h | all a matter of what apps you use install and how you get to them | 17:54 |
| snap-l | Um.... | 17:54 |
| snap-l | There's fundamental differences to how linux / osx / win7 attack things under the DE layer | 17:55 |
| snap-l | That was mostly my joke. :) | 17:55 |
| rick_h | right, but if you take out cmd line, you're stuck at the DE layer | 17:55 |
| snap-l | And if you take out the DE layer, you have a brick | 17:59 |
| rick_h | :) | 18:00 |
| brousch | no, you have a cloud app | 18:00 |
| jrwren | you mean chromeos? | 18:01 |
| rick_h | yea, I was wondering when that would come up | 18:01 |
| snap-l | ttp://post.oreilly.com/f2f/9z1z6qjmhbq3l1hsugmj1k2b5a0f49965fufdoc69g0 | 18:09 |
| snap-l | Bah: http://post.oreilly.com/f2f/9z1z6qjmhbq3l1hsugmj1k2b5a0f49965fufdoc69g0 | 18:09 |
| snap-l | Let's try that again: http://shop.oreilly.com/category/deals/oldies-but-goodies.do | 18:10 |
| jrwren | wtf is in ssh the definitive guide | 18:16 |
| rick_h | I've got that one | 18:17 |
| rick_h | I can bring it to CHC | 18:17 |
| rick_h | good stuff on how ssh works, tricks and tips, building complex network setups over ssh | 18:17 |
| jrwren | weird | 18:24 |
| tjagoda | I loved the Programming Perl book | 18:26 |
| jrwren | got a python version? | 18:26 |
| jrwren | imma have to become python guru pretty quick... i verbally accepted job offer doing python. | 18:27 |
| jrwren | not sure why I have not got paper yet. | 18:27 |
| snap-l | Learning Python or Programming Python | 18:27 |
| rick_h | jrwren: learning python isn't what you want | 18:27 |
| jrwren | those books USED TO SUCK | 18:27 |
| snap-l | Both have had major rewrites | 18:27 |
| rick_h | yea...that's true | 18:27 |
| jrwren | dive into python will get me the sweet sweet details? | 18:28 |
| snap-l | And yes, learning python was a deathmarch before the rewrite | 18:28 |
| snap-l | Dive Into Python is old | 18:28 |
| jrwren | no 2.7 update for dive into? | 18:28 |
| rick_h | man, I've read a lot of python books, but can't think of one that I'd heartily recomment | 18:28 |
| snap-l | and the python 3 rewrite is pretty offputting | 18:28 |
| rick_h | recommend | 18:28 |
| jrwren | oh wow, 2004 | 18:28 |
| jrwren | rick_h: that is what I'd guess. | 18:28 |
| rick_h | jrwren: yea no he went py3 | 18:28 |
| jrwren | i'll just read the docs :) | 18:28 |
| rick_h | jrwren: yea, I mean python really is more passed via looking at docs and existing code | 18:29 |
| snap-l | jrwren: If you want to borrow a copy of Learning Python, LMK | 18:29 |
| rick_h | I learned a lot figuring out how other tools worked like pylons/pyramid, nose, etc. | 18:29 |
| rick_h | I'd suggest getting the new cookbook when it comes out next week (hopefully it's on time) | 18:29 |
| snap-l | That's really the best way to learn | 18:30 |
| rick_h | that should be a gold mine, but again might be more py3, but still ideas apply | 18:30 |
| brousch | what about python the hard way? that seems to fit jrwren | 18:30 |
| jrwren | yeah, i might be on 2.4 for all I know :) | 18:30 |
| rick_h | ugh, I hope not | 18:30 |
| snap-l | brousch: That seems pretty basic | 18:30 |
| rick_h | actually wow, checking my kindle collection very little python. I guess I did learn more via paper books | 18:31 |
| rick_h | jrwren: gold: http://www.amazon.com/Python-Essential-Reference-David-Beazley/dp/0672329786/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329330752&sr=1-6 | 18:32 |
| rick_h | and http://www.amazon.com/Python-Standard-Library-Example-Developers/dp/0321767349/ref=sr_1_11?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329330752&sr=1-11 | 18:33 |
| tjagoda | I still use Linux in a Nuthsell on a regular basis | 18:33 |
| tjagoda | "WTF Was that command?" | 18:33 |
| rick_h | yea, those two + the coookbook would be my suggestions if one were to ask | 18:34 |
| brousch | anything beazley should be good | 18:34 |
| rick_h | and reading a ton of code. no wonder python is often self taught, not a great book really | 18:34 |
| jrwren | i just skimmed learn python the hard way... its super basic. | 18:34 |
| rick_h | but the essential ref is something I still grab sometimes | 18:34 |
| jrwren | i'd not consider someone knowing python having read it :p | 18:34 |
| brousch | i haven't actually read it yet | 18:35 |
| rick_h | not looked at that, no metaclasses fun? :) | 18:35 |
| jrwren | nope. | 18:36 |
| jrwren | not even list comprehension! | 18:36 |
| rick_h | ?!?!?! | 18:36 |
| snap-l | I didn't like Python The Essential Reference | 18:36 |
| rick_h | that can't be, you can't write a book on python without generators, iterators, comprehensions | 18:36 |
| jrwren | inorite! | 18:36 |
| rick_h | snap-l: no? | 18:36 |
| brousch | what is python without list comprehensions?! | 18:36 |
| snap-l | rick_h: Yeah, it seemed a little too... sterile, perhaps? | 18:37 |
| rick_h | it's very much a reference, but killer especially when you hit stuff like logging/etc | 18:37 |
| jrwren | http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/ I skimmed eveyr page... no generators, iterators or comprehensions | 18:37 |
| snap-l | That and I got rid of it when I went on my SOAP rampage. | 18:37 |
| rick_h | snap-l: ah, yea. I'd not use it for straight learning, but it's great to walk throughand for when you need that question answered | 18:37 |
| snap-l | SPOA, rather | 18:37 |
| snap-l | Fuck, why can't I type that | 18:37 |
| snap-l | SOPA | 18:37 |
| rick_h | jrwren: yea, meh on that ToC | 18:38 |
| rick_h | psh, python koans > than that "chapter" on "doing things to lists" | 18:38 |
| jrwren | A Byte of Python looks a bit better, more terse, but still intro... I want the advanced :p | 18:39 |
| rick_h | jrwren: yea, not going to find it really | 18:40 |
| brousch | rick_h: didn't you read an advanced python book last year? | 18:40 |
| rick_h | brousch: it was crazy | 18:41 |
| rick_h | I'm trying to find it | 18:41 |
| snap-l | It wasn't Expert Python, was it? | 18:41 |
| rick_h | no, that one is crack as well | 18:41 |
| jrwren | how crazy/ | 18:41 |
| rick_h | I thought it was an apress book, I remember reading it on the kindle | 18:42 |
| brousch | i have lost track. is crack good or bad? | 18:42 |
| * rick_h checks my book folder | 18:42 | |
| snap-l | Expert Python started off strong, and then became "here's revision control" | 18:42 |
| snap-l | Python Algorithms? FOundations of Python Networking? | 18:42 |
| jrwren | http://www.amazon.com/Expert-Python-Programming-practices-distributing/dp/184719494X Martelli's review is great. | 18:43 |
| rick_h | snap-l: what was that one that jumped all over the place | 18:43 |
| rick_h | I think you read it first and then I read it on a plane | 18:43 |
| jrwren | python essential references looks good | 18:44 |
| snap-l | Yeah, I got a review copy of it | 18:44 |
| snap-l | and it jumped like crazy | 18:44 |
| rick_h | snap-l: yea | 18:44 |
| snap-l | WEnt from installing Python to the hairier parts of python OO | 18:44 |
| snap-l | and then finished with "revision control is good" | 18:45 |
| rick_h | oh, think ir was Pro Python | 18:45 |
| snap-l | Ah, yeah, that's it | 18:45 |
| rick_h | hmm, I can't find it locally. Wonder where I got it from then | 18:45 |
| brousch | maybe it was so bad you burned it | 18:46 |
| snap-l | http://www.amazon.com/review/R2C34BGYK149PD/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=184719494X&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode= | 18:46 |
| snap-l | rick_h: I think you donated it at CHC | 18:46 |
| rick_h | ah, I did get it kindle format | 18:46 |
| brousch | ack! http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920000280.do | 18:47 |
| brousch | says it has been cancelled | 18:47 |
| snap-l | brousch: I can't say I'm surprised | 18:48 |
| snap-l | but I am disappointed | 18:48 |
| snap-l | Python Cookbook seriously needs some updating | 18:48 |
| rick_h | snap-l: yea, I'm stoked for that one | 18:49 |
| rick_h | brousch: ?! | 18:49 |
| rick_h | oh crap, that's not good. | 18:50 |
| snap-l | Wonder if they're going to relaunch it as a web site | 18:51 |
| snap-l | Frankly it would be better served in a non-dead-tree version | 18:51 |
| rick_h | guess it was a couple of years ago: http://dabeaz.blogspot.com/2010/12/oreilly-python-cookbook-python-3-all.html | 18:51 |
| snap-l | Yeah, I'm not seeing the cancellation notice | 18:52 |
| rick_h | yea, can't find it via google fu | 18:53 |
| brousch | Help me whine http://support.oreilly.com/oreilly/topics/_python_cookbook_3rd_edition_cancelled | 18:54 |
| rick_h | lol | 18:54 |
| brousch | you even get to pick a little smiley/frowny face and there's a dedicated input for your feelings | 18:55 |
| rick_h | _stink_: you know Close | 18:56 |
| rick_h | Eyad Hailat | 18:56 |
| rick_h | ? | 18:56 |
| rick_h | bah, that came out bad | 18:56 |
| snap-l | I'm not sure how that could come out good. :) | 18:59 |
| rick_h | well somehow paste had "close " and the name in there | 18:59 |
| nullspace | snap-l: eh I dislike SOAP mostly because we work with a company that implemented a truly messed up configureation, inputs are strongly typed, outputs are not. Truly confusing | 19:05 |
| nullspace | SOAP doesn't seem like it'd be that bad if people used the tools and followed standards. | 19:06 |
| snap-l | nullspace: Do you just have keyword notifications for Java things? :) | 19:06 |
| snap-l | I meant SOPA | 19:06 |
| nullspace | ah yeah that just sucks period | 19:07 |
| nullspace | SOAP is webservices, lots of things use SOAP | 19:08 |
| _stink_ | rick_h: naw, not well. i think he was in the CS dept at WSU when i was forst getting started | 19:08 |
| rick_h | _stink_: ok, got a linked in request and didn't ring a bell but saw WSU | 19:09 |
| _stink_ | yeah | 19:09 |
| _stink_ | i haven't accepted yet :P | 19:09 |
| rick_h | heh | 19:09 |
| brousch | ack, ugliest site evaar? http://www.pythondiary.com/blog/Feb.15,2012/django-and-jquery.html | 19:16 |
| nullspace | brousch: all I see is a blinding whitelight quickly followed by utter darkness | 19:20 |
| nullspace | kill it with fire | 19:20 |
| snap-l | brousch: That site is too clever by half | 19:22 |
| snap-l | Also reminds me that I should change my Wordpress theme. :) | 19:24 |
| Wolfger | holy mother of all coffee mugs... http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/mugs/ec57/?cpg=37449680&msg_id=37449680&et_rid=508488518&linkid=37449680_headline_ec57 | 19:33 |
| ColonelPanic001 | heh | 20:05 |
| tjagoda | Nicely done | 20:05 |
| tjagoda | Dimensions: 10" diameter x 6.5" tall. | 20:06 |
| brousch | why not just drink from the coffee pot? | 20:06 |
| tjagoda | Because the coffee pot is wimpy | 20:08 |
| tjagoda | And cannot be used as a portable sink | 20:08 |
| tjagoda | http://www.thinkgeek.com/interests/giftsforher/e89a/ | 20:09 |
| tjagoda | I like to drink out of that in front of camera nerds. | 20:09 |
| tjagoda | And then they drink out of this to threaten me back http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/mugs/eaa0/ | 20:10 |
| snap-l | brousch: Drinking from the coffeepot is iuncivilized | 20:24 |
| snap-l | *headdesk* http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/134103/github-like-pull-requests-without-github | 20:28 |
| nullspace | some people just don't rtfm | 20:34 |
| snap-l | jrwren: http://greenteapress.com/thinkpython/thinkpython.html <- Python Book | 20:48 |
| snap-l | Which leads to http://greenteapress.com/thinkstats/index.html and http://greenteapress.com/complexity/index.html | 20:49 |
| jrwren | looks good. | 20:49 |
| jrwren | I think between all these samples http://www.dabeaz.com/generators/ and these http://dabeaz.com/coroutines/ I'll have a good foundation | 20:49 |
| snap-l | jrwren: Yeah, there's no substitute for just playing with examples in a debugger | 20:50 |
| jrwren | debugger? | 20:55 |
| jrwren | or repl? | 20:55 |
| snap-l | repl, ipdb, whatever | 20:59 |
| snap-l | code says more in 2 lines than a book can say in two paragraphs | 20:59 |
| snap-l | says the man that collects PDF files like they were pez dispensers at a flea market. | 21:00 |
| jrwren | https://jobs.github.com/positions/940ce13a-537b-11e1-9d70-f8e808895bec awesome | 22:20 |
| snap-l | http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/120215_Robocalls_FCC.pdf | 23:07 |
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