[03:01] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U13xOvDa19U
[11:45] <rick_h> morning
[11:45] <rick_h> hello DotD, I think I'll be buying you today
[11:51] <mydogsnameisrudy> morning
[11:52] <snap-l> Good morning
[11:53] <snap-l> That was just released, wasn't it?
[11:53] <snap-l> The DotD
[11:53] <rick_h> snap-l: yea, I was waiting for it to come out
[11:53] <rick_h> so even better, clear off the wishlist at 50% off
[11:55] <snap-l> Yeah, I believe O'Reilly has figured out this impulse buy thing. :)
[11:56] <mydogsnameisrudy> buy now pay later
[12:22] <rick_h> this is depressing: link from canonical voices http://cityblogger.com/archives/2012/02/15/which-is-less-expensive-amazon-or-self-hosted
[12:27] <Wolfger> morning
[12:30] <Wolfger> Machine Learning? rick_h is going to bring Skynet down upon us... :-(
[12:30] <rick_h> that's the plan!
[12:31] <rick_h> that's what bookie is, my attempt to build skynet
[12:34] <Wolfger> Ahnold will find Sarah Connor via her web surfing habits.
[13:41] <snap-l> rick_h: IS the gigaom link depressing?
[13:42] <rick_h> the cityblogger thing is' like 80% ads on the page. THe content is squished to the left 5 words wide
[13:43] <rick_h> and this is from a canonical employee sharing on the planet like that
[13:43] <rick_h> just depressing it's so giant ad heavy
[13:43] <brousch> gotta pay the bills yo
[13:45] <snap-l> rick_h: Ah, I have adblocker installed, so I didn't see it. :)
[13:45] <snap-l> And yes, that was pretty light on content (on both counts)
[13:45] <rick_h> ah, I try to run without, just flash block so that I don't go total freetard on the net
[13:46] <snap-l> No, not noscript, adblock. :)
[13:46] <snap-l> Makes visiting places like detnews.com livable
[13:48] <brousch> also essential on my phone
[13:48] <snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ppre5/the_new_d_online_forum_software_written_in_d/ <- Apparently NNTP Is making a comeback
[13:48] <snap-l> And I for one would love to see NNTP everywhere.
[13:49] <nullspace> snap-l: so how goes the new job?
[13:49] <snap-l> nullspace: I'm not ready to throttle rick_h yet. :)
[13:49] <rick_h> only because they've not made him work on my code :P
[13:49] <nullspace> nice
[13:49] <snap-l> I'm enjoying it so far, but I'm now digging into some of the data loading scripts
[13:49] <snap-l> and excel can die in a dire
[13:50] <snap-l> fire, even
[13:50] <rick_h> ugh
[13:50] <nullspace> what are you using to parse it?
[13:50] <snap-l> Well, it's already being parsed
[13:51] <snap-l> but I'd like to come up with a better way to detect it, and parse it
[13:51] <snap-l> Python handles two out of the three formats that I've seen pretty cleanly.
[13:51] <snap-l> but there's no "one-true-XLS" parser out there.
[13:51] <nullspace> we are about to break into that ourselves but we are going with an apache foundation project
[13:52] <snap-l> nullspace: Which project?
[13:52] <nullspace> I think POI
[13:53] <snap-l> Oh, purdy
[13:53] <nullspace> we are already using it to write to excel and it's awesome, well as awesome as one can get with writing to excel
[13:53] <snap-l> Java API for MIcrosoft documents
[13:53] <nullspace> it's always a messy job
[13:53] <snap-l> I think I just wretched a bit in my mouth
[13:54] <brousch> snap-l: i've had good luck with xlrd
[13:54] <snap-l> brousch: Yeah, and the openpyxlst (sp?) looks very nice
[13:54] <nullspace> snap-l: if you saw our how fast our pages run you'd not be wreching
[13:55] <snap-l> there's apparently a straight XML (non-zipped) format that Excel upchucks which unfortunately doesn't have a module that can handle it
[13:55] <snap-l> nullspace: Java API for MS Documents is wretch-worthy. :)
[13:55] <brousch> switch everyone to openoffice ;)
[13:55] <snap-l> It's like coating a plate of shit with maggots. :)
[13:56] <snap-l> brousch: Were that I were king, this would be a non-issue
[13:56] <snap-l> ODF, or to the gallows with you.
[13:56] <nullspace> snap-l: if maggots and shot tasted like steak then you might be right
[13:56] <snap-l> nullspace: IF you're hungry enough, anything can taste good. :)
[13:58] <nullspace> the entire report generating file is only 230 lines
[13:59] <nullspace> snap-l: so what is that you against java again?
[13:59] <snap-l> nullspace: I'm not a fan, no
[13:59] <rick_h> wait, did someone ask for a bitch list against java?
[13:59] <nullspace> why exactly, I'm not trying to convert
[14:00] <rick_h> this is going to take a while...how many pages max do I get?
[14:00] <brousch> rick_h: please use a pastebin
[14:00] <rick_h> brousch: think of the web servers please, accepting that many MB over POST is going to hurt!
[14:00] <nullspace> rick_h: you know your phone is running java right?
[14:01] <rick_h> nullspace: yep! and I've not written a single program for my phone that wasn't python + web :)
[14:01] <rick_h> nullspace: you know your linux install runs C right? Surely you should be writing all things in C!
[14:01] <snap-l> nullspace: The biggest current reason is that Oracle controls the fate of Java.
[14:01] <rick_h> ooh, I like these types of arguments, what's next?
[14:01] <nullspace> rick_h: not what I'm saying
[14:02] <snap-l> so it's impossible to distribute Sun's Java without going through Oracle
[14:02] <rick_h> no, biggest current reason is that it's a bear to code in and a pita to work with
[14:02] <snap-l> And the only other recourse is to distribute Open JDK
[14:02] <rick_h> it's like ergonomics, sure people get by with crap chairs, but man, a nice chair sure makes the work day better
[14:02] <nullspace> snap-l: I was attrached by the overwhelming number of apache projects and most are in java
[14:02] <snap-l> nullspace: That's great for you. :)
[14:03] <snap-l> Every time I've waded inthe Java pool, I feel disgusted
[14:03] <rick_h> and I hear that most MS projects are written in C#, and most github projects are in ruby
[14:03] <rick_h> ooh, another fun one. You noticed that communities seem to stick around the same ideas.
[14:05] <nullspace> rick_h: makes sense that communities would do that
[14:07] <brousch> estimated monstly cost for the grpug site on heroku is still $0
[14:07] <brousch> nice
[14:08] <snap-l> brousch: Very cool
[14:08] <rick_h> brousch: woot
[14:08] <snap-l> Let me put that up on reddit. :)
[14:08] <brousch> heh
[14:08]  * brousch starts looking into caching
[14:08] <nullspace> snap-l: yes the thought that oracle could do a number of things that would poision Java but I see all those as means to loose money and have people quickly abandon the platform
[14:09] <snap-l> nullspace: s/could/are doing/
[14:09] <snap-l> Sorry, is doing.
[14:09] <nullspace> I have yet to see that
[14:09] <nullspace> maybe I missed an article
[14:10] <snap-l> Patent lawsuit against Google for Dalvek
[14:10] <snap-l> Revoking the OSS distribution license.
[14:10] <nullspace> hmm looks like a money grab, I think oracle will loose on that one
[14:11] <snap-l> nullspace: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/12/java-to-be-removed-from-ubuntu-uninstalled-from-user-machines/
[14:12] <snap-l> I think this is just the tip of the iceberg
[14:13] <snap-l> Oracle does not know how to be a nice OSS citizen
[14:13] <nullspace> snap-l: I think to understand Ellison you have to be just as crazy as him
[14:13] <brousch> s/crazy/greedy/
[14:14] <nullspace> brousch: no he is crazy
[14:14] <snap-l> Right, so why would I want to buy into an ecosystem that requires me to be a man that I despise?
[14:14] <snap-l> When the language isn't that hot to begin with, and the only compelling part is the JVM?
[14:14] <brousch> you don't have to understand him to use his stuff, you just have to pay him
[14:15] <snap-l> I don't need to hit my hand with a hammer every morning to remember that it hurts.
[14:15] <brousch> pay fo what you use, you damn freetard!
[14:15] <snap-l> The only saving grace is that Sun in it's dying throes OSSesd a lot of stuff
[14:16] <snap-l> So now we have Libreoffice, a dozen+ MySQL forks, and VirtualBox OSE
[14:17] <snap-l> and OpenJDK
[14:18] <nullspace> OpenJDK seems to be working just fine for us
[14:18] <jrwren> i just bought a usb tv device with no linux support. i fail.
[14:19] <rick_h> you're supposed to ask devin for the right one first
[14:19] <rick_h> since he makes/made them and all that
[14:19] <brousch> jrwren: as punishment you must feed, clothe, bathe, and house RMS for 1 week
[14:19] <rick_h> where did I put mine hmmm
[14:19] <jrwren> rick_h: i read that gigom article yesterday. I found it lacking on lots of points.
[14:19] <snap-l> jrwren: Gee, a tech news site with lacking points?
[14:20] <snap-l> jrwren: TO THE BLOGS, BATMAN!
[14:20] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, I liked when aws put out their reply and cut the costss more
[14:20] <rick_h> http://aws.typepad.com/aws/2012/02/be-careful-when-comparing-aws-costs.html
[14:21] <snap-l> Anyone else find it a titch ironic that AWS is using typepad?
[14:21] <rick_h> no, they build servers, not blogging platforms :)
[14:21] <rick_h> and maybe typepad is a customer?
[14:21] <snap-l> maybe.
[14:21] <jrwren> rofl.
[14:22] <jrwren> probably
[14:22] <snap-l> rick_h: But they should be scaling the shit out of a Wordpress instance. :)
[14:22] <jrwren> ok... color me impressed... those D forums pages to load fast.
[14:22] <jrwren> probably not as much becuase of D as it is developers attn to detail
[14:22] <jrwren> but I like it.
[14:23] <snap-l> "AND LOOK, WE'RE NOT EVEN USING FASTCGI"
[14:23] <snap-l> I wish all forum software used NNTP
[14:23] <jrwren> rofl.
[14:23] <jrwren> they aren't using fastcgi? they should be.
[14:24] <snap-l> jrwren: That's the power of Amazon AWS
[14:24] <jrwren> how so?
[14:24] <jrwren> maybe they are using mod_d
[14:24] <snap-l> (I'm being facetious)
[14:24] <snap-l> You moved on to the D forums before I finished my "Amazon scaling the shit out of a wordpress install"
[14:25] <jrwren> lol.
[14:25] <jrwren> i see.
[14:25] <jrwren> yeah... shit AWS can't do... scale the shit out of a wordpress install :)
[14:27] <nullspace> snap-l: I consider you lucky that you don't have to support both xls and xlsx, we have a bunch of Asian distributors that still use office XP
[14:27] <rick_h> nullspace: oh he does :)
[14:27] <nullspace> ouch
[14:27] <snap-l> nullspace: That's the point. I have to support three different formats.
[14:28] <snap-l> xls blobs, xls XML, and xlsx.
[14:28] <nullspace> xls is the real bitch
[14:28] <brousch> you can't require them to send you something reasonable?
[14:28] <snap-l> brousch: This is a customer site. :)
[14:28] <snap-l> This is "reasonable"
[14:29] <jrwren> http://aws.typepad.com/aws/2012/02/be-careful-when-comparing-aws-costs.html  I like the "No Administrative Costs" point the best :)
[14:29] <nullspace> brousch: all they see is values, they have no idea what is takes to move it from one place to another
[14:30] <brousch> only accept CSV or something
[14:30] <snap-l> brousch: See above.
[14:30] <rick_h> yea, they love to send around 20 sheet workbooks
[14:30] <jrwren> seems like someone could make a few bucks (and only a few bucks) a month doing a conversion service. e.g. you send the web service an xls and it sends you back... openoffice format, or xlsx or csv
[14:31] <snap-l> jrwren: I'd be happy if it sent back a mysql dump
[14:31] <jrwren> table per sheet ?
[14:31] <snap-l> and when I'm king, there will be no data exports, only database connections.
[14:31] <brousch> adam williams in the grpug has an extensive system for converting those things
[14:31] <jrwren> should it expand the formula or just send you formula as values?
[14:32] <jrwren> and when I'm king, there will be no database connections, only well documented rest services
[14:32] <snap-l> jrwren: Long live the king
[14:32] <brousch> he's made it so he can create a template for each customer format and then handle it the same way
[14:32] <snap-l> brousch: That's awesome, save for this is just one customer. :)
[14:33] <brousch> ah
[14:33] <brousch> he processes data from hundreds of vendors so he created a generalized solution
[14:33] <snap-l> And that's wise.
[14:35] <snap-l> I found one python magic script that looked promising
[14:35] <snap-l> save for everything came back as "data"
[14:36] <snap-l> Ah, here's another one
[14:37]  * snap-l gleefully wants to have "import magic" at the top of this file. :)
[14:54] <snap-l> BREAKING: Random Ubuntu developer asks followers for restaurant suggestions. By unanimity, decides to eat on "Unity sucks, I hope you die!" -- FOSSNews
[15:07] <ColonelPanic001> heh
[15:12] <Blazeix> a distant second was "Why did you kill Kubuntu!?"
[15:17] <ColonelPanic001> >: - |
[15:18] <brousch>  /join kubuntu-us-mi
[15:18] <brousch> oops
[15:22] <Wolfger> brousch: why did you leave the channel?
[15:22] <brousch> because it was a bad joke :P
[15:23] <brousch> no need to fork yet
[15:23] <Wolfger> There's 2 of us in there. Come join the fun :-)
[15:32] <Wolfger> why does Firefox keep throwing twitter.com cert exception errors at me, regardless of the fact I don't have any twitter-related windows open?
[15:32] <Wolfger> I wiped my history, cookies, and cache...
[15:33] <brousch> your company is MitMing you
[15:33] <Wolfger> MitMing?
[15:34] <Wolfger> oh
[15:34] <brousch> man in the middle
[15:34] <Wolfger> well yeah, but why would FF even be trying to get to twitter?
[15:36] <brousch> to autotweet every page you visit to the IT department
[15:37] <Wolfger> LOL
[15:37] <Wolfger> unlikely
[15:37] <Wolfger> Twitter was suddenly un-verboten last week when they wanted us to go vote on the Chrysler ads for best Super Bowl commercial...
[15:38] <Wolfger> and now it's verboten again, so the MitM attack on twitter, FB, etc is back in place
[15:38] <Wolfger> but that should not (and never previously did) affect me when I'm just on Gmail and IRCCloud
[15:43] <snap-l> Wolfger: Seriously? That's pathetic.
[15:45] <Wolfger> snap-l: what, the "go vote for us please"? Yeah...
[15:49] <Wolfger> we were even encouraged to vote multiple times
[15:49] <Wolfger> stuff those ballot boxes, guys
[15:50] <snap-l> Yeah, because nobody will notice all of these votes coming from chrysler.com
[15:52] <snap-l> If there is a soundtrack that makes me want to program, it's the Tron soundtrack (from 1982)
[15:59] <jrwren> Wolfger: its probably every page you visit pinging back to twitter to prep for those "tweet this" tags on the page.
[16:00] <jrwren> facebook does the samething.
[16:00] <jrwren> its one of many reasons i run noscript
[16:05] <snap-l> Yeah, those dippy little bugs / tags are a PITA
[16:05] <snap-l> funny to see the designers that plan for it, and the ones that don't.
[16:07] <tjagoda> Woot
[16:07] <tjagoda> Sysadmin Opening @ Canonical
[16:08] <snap-l> Yeah, saw that
[16:10] <tjagoda> CANONICAL, I WILL HAVE YOU
[16:11] <jrwren> why do you want to work for canonical?
[16:18] <brousch> all the cool kids are doing it
[16:18] <tjagoda> Canonical is changing the face of teh linuks
[16:19] <tjagoda> I am a fan of working diligently in support of that
[16:19] <tjagoda> I am especially a fan of getting paid for that
[16:23] <jrwren> cool answer.
[16:37] <tjagoda> If you ever use it, I'll have to kill you ;)
[16:38] <snap-l> LIstening to A Clockwork Orange's soundtrack is probably not the wisest move while wading through this code.
[16:46] <Wolfger> jrwren: Yeah, I run noscript as well. :-p
[16:48] <Wolfger> tjagoda: if you are a fan of "working diligently in support of changing the face of Linux", then why did you bail out of Ubuntu when they made some changes? ;-)
[16:52] <snap-l> Wolfger: Shhhhh
[16:52] <snap-l> Never let a good story get in the way of the facts. :)
[16:53] <Wolfger> I didn't
[16:53] <Wolfger> I think you meant to say the opposite
[16:53] <Wolfger> :-)
[16:53] <snap-l> bah
[16:54] <snap-l> I stand by what I meant to say
[17:06] <tjagoda> I still use ubuntu
[17:06] <tjagoda> I just use a different desktop environment
[17:10] <jrwren> i need a LGPL license with an iOS static linking exception :)
[17:11] <jrwren> i still use ubuntu too
[17:11] <jrwren> and I use a different deaktop environment. windows and osx
[17:12] <rick_h> umm heh
[17:13] <snap-l> jrwren: please to be telling me the results of `cat /proc/cpuinfo` on said Windows and OSX desktop environments.
[17:13] <rick_h> snap-l: how dare you make him stoop to the cmd line. The cmd line is a bug!
[17:14] <snap-l> rick_h: Ah, my bad
[17:14] <snap-l> OPen nautilus, move to /proc/cpuinfo and double-click
[17:16] <snap-l> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/topics/security/javacpufeb2012-366318.html
[17:17] <rick_h> wheee
[17:21] <snap-l> Reason #454623 why Oracle needs to DIAF: https://support.oracle.com/CSP/main/article?cmd=show&type=NOT&id=1404863.1
[17:21] <snap-l> Go on, click on that link
[17:22] <rick_h> Sign Up for a free Oracle Web account
[17:23] <snap-l> Yes, to find out what's in the support notes
[17:23] <snap-l> ie: what changed.
[17:32] <snap-l> Sometimes I think the toy collectible market goes way too far: http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/collectibles/ec60/
[17:32] <rick_h> woot, loving ec2 test/landing. landing 4 branches at once and my machine doesn't have to run4 sets of tests at once yay
[17:33] <snap-l> Does it spin up four instances?
[17:33] <rick_h> yea
[17:33] <rick_h> 4 large ec2 instances
[17:34] <tjagoda> snap-l: whats wrong with a little molding?
[17:34] <snap-l> tjagoda: Nothing, but it's just a little... what's the word?... creepy
[17:35] <tjagoda> If I get hired by Geek.net or Canonical, I will buy this for my home office: http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/collectibles/e9b8/
[17:49] <jrwren> rick_h: oh EFF YOU!  not having /proc is one thing, not having cmdline is completely different!
[17:49] <rick_h> :)
[17:49] <jrwren> rick_h: that said, you are one of the few people in the world that i've met that probably has better cmdline fu than me :)
[17:50] <rick_h> jrwren: not sure on that. I'm just very happy with my 10%
[17:50] <jrwren> 10% ?
[17:50] <jrwren> i just love cmdline and feel like i'm pretty good at it.
[17:50] <rick_h> every tool, find the 10% you use all the time and kill it
[17:50] <jrwren> does that go for your wood working tools too?
[17:50] <rick_h> I know maybe 10% of other masters, but happy with my 10% to make myself productive
[17:51] <rick_h> jrwren: definitely, you get into comfy patterns with how you use things
[17:51] <rick_h> not sure on the 10% thing
[17:51] <snap-l> rick_h knows 10 commands, but he types them faster than anyone I know. ;)
[17:51] <rick_h> I was more thinking of things like vim, shell, etc
[17:51] <jrwren> i feel like i actually know more than 10% of bash and coreutils and there are things that I know I don't know... its things that i don't know that i don't know that i'm not sure abou t;P
[17:51] <rick_h> right, well I guess I'm saying less "know of" and more "use regularaly"
[17:51] <snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, that's the rub
[17:51] <jrwren> i'm thinking purely shell and coreutils
[17:52] <jrwren> i'm not counting vim... vim is too huge :)
[17:52] <rick_h> except with spell correct in there
[17:52] <rick_h> vim is as large as shell/cmd line fu I'd think
[17:52] <jrwren> larger.
[17:52] <rick_h> anyway, I think you probably know more cmd line stuff than me
[17:52] <jrwren> amount of vim knowledge is far larger than shell+coreutils
[17:53] <rick_h> but anyway, I was just making a joke on the cmd line thing
[17:53] <jrwren> doubtful. you actually made the zsh leap. I'm back on bash and I don't even leverage completion providers much
[17:53] <jrwren> a joke at my expense :(
[17:53] <Wolfger> brousch and anybody who cares: figured out my twitter.com MitM issues... Firefox was set to start session with all the tabs from previous session. Even though nothing using twitter was open, and even though I cleaned history, cache, etc, FF was somehow keeping twitter as something that needed to be loaded.
[17:53] <jrwren> i earned it by using windows and mac
[17:53] <rick_h> espeicially because I was curious how snap-l would move to respond given that any response would be WM specific
[17:53] <rick_h> and thus make your point a bit more
[17:53] <Wolfger> changed FF to start with blank page, problem magically gone
[17:54] <rick_h> if you ditch the cmd line you really can almost say ubuntu/osx/win7 is a DE
[17:54] <rick_h> all a matter of what apps you use install and how you get to them
[17:54] <snap-l> Um....
[17:55] <snap-l> There's fundamental differences to how linux / osx / win7 attack things under the DE layer
[17:55] <snap-l> That was mostly my joke. :)
[17:55] <rick_h> right, but if you take out cmd line, you're stuck at the DE layer
[17:59] <snap-l> And if you take out the DE layer, you have a brick
[18:00] <rick_h> :)
[18:00] <brousch> no, you have a cloud app
[18:01] <jrwren> you mean chromeos?
[18:01] <rick_h> yea, I was wondering when that would come up
[18:09] <snap-l> ttp://post.oreilly.com/f2f/9z1z6qjmhbq3l1hsugmj1k2b5a0f49965fufdoc69g0
[18:09] <snap-l> Bah: http://post.oreilly.com/f2f/9z1z6qjmhbq3l1hsugmj1k2b5a0f49965fufdoc69g0
[18:10] <snap-l> Let's try that again: http://shop.oreilly.com/category/deals/oldies-but-goodies.do
[18:16] <jrwren> wtf is in ssh the definitive guide
[18:17] <rick_h> I've got that one
[18:17] <rick_h> I can bring it to CHC
[18:17] <rick_h> good stuff on how ssh works, tricks and tips, building complex network setups over ssh
[18:24] <jrwren> weird
[18:26] <tjagoda> I loved the Programming Perl book
[18:26] <jrwren> got a python version?
[18:27] <jrwren> imma have to become python guru pretty quick... i verbally accepted job offer doing python.
[18:27] <jrwren> not sure why I have not got paper yet.
[18:27] <snap-l> Learning Python or Programming Python
[18:27] <rick_h> jrwren: learning python isn't what you want
[18:27] <jrwren> those books USED TO SUCK
[18:27] <snap-l> Both have had major rewrites
[18:27] <rick_h> yea...that's true
[18:28] <jrwren> dive into python will get me the sweet sweet details?
[18:28] <snap-l> And yes, learning python was a deathmarch before the rewrite
[18:28] <snap-l> Dive Into Python is old
[18:28] <jrwren> no 2.7 update for dive into?
[18:28] <rick_h> man, I've read a lot of python books, but can't think of one that I'd heartily recomment
[18:28] <snap-l> and the python 3  rewrite is pretty offputting
[18:28] <rick_h> recommend
[18:28] <jrwren> oh wow, 2004
[18:28] <jrwren> rick_h: that is what I'd guess.
[18:28] <rick_h> jrwren: yea no he went py3
[18:28] <jrwren> i'll just read the docs :)
[18:29] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, I mean python really is more passed via looking at docs and existing code
[18:29] <snap-l> jrwren: If you want to borrow a copy of Learning Python, LMK
[18:29] <rick_h> I learned a lot figuring out how other tools worked like pylons/pyramid, nose, etc.
[18:29] <rick_h> I'd suggest getting the new cookbook when it comes out next week (hopefully it's on time)
[18:30] <snap-l> That's really the best way to learn
[18:30] <rick_h> that should be a gold mine, but again might be more py3, but still ideas apply
[18:30] <brousch> what about python the hard way? that seems to fit jrwren
[18:30] <jrwren> yeah, i might be on 2.4 for all I know :)
[18:30] <rick_h> ugh, I hope not
[18:30] <snap-l> brousch: That seems pretty basic
[18:31] <rick_h> actually wow, checking my kindle collection very little python. I guess I did learn more via paper books
[18:32] <rick_h> jrwren: gold: http://www.amazon.com/Python-Essential-Reference-David-Beazley/dp/0672329786/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329330752&sr=1-6
[18:33] <rick_h> and http://www.amazon.com/Python-Standard-Library-Example-Developers/dp/0321767349/ref=sr_1_11?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329330752&sr=1-11
[18:33] <tjagoda> I still use Linux in a Nuthsell on a regular basis
[18:33] <tjagoda> "WTF Was that command?"
[18:34] <rick_h> yea, those two + the coookbook would be my suggestions if one were to ask
[18:34] <brousch> anything beazley should be good
[18:34] <rick_h> and reading a ton of code. no wonder python is often self taught, not a great book really
[18:34] <jrwren> i just skimmed learn python the hard way... its super basic.
[18:34] <rick_h> but the essential ref is something I still grab sometimes
[18:34] <jrwren> i'd not consider someone knowing python having read it :p
[18:35] <brousch> i haven't actually read it yet
[18:35] <rick_h> not looked at that, no metaclasses fun? :)
[18:36] <jrwren> nope.
[18:36] <jrwren> not even list comprehension!
[18:36] <rick_h> ?!?!?!
[18:36] <snap-l> I didn't like Python The Essential Reference
[18:36] <rick_h> that can't be, you can't write a book on python without generators, iterators, comprehensions
[18:36] <jrwren> inorite!
[18:36] <rick_h> snap-l: no?
[18:36] <brousch> what is python without list comprehensions?!
[18:37] <snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, it seemed a little too... sterile, perhaps?
[18:37] <rick_h> it's very much a reference, but killer especially when you hit stuff like logging/etc
[18:37] <jrwren> http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/  I skimmed eveyr page... no generators, iterators or comprehensions
[18:37] <snap-l> That and I got rid of it when I went on my SOAP rampage.
[18:37] <rick_h> snap-l: ah, yea. I'd not use it for straight learning, but it's great to walk throughand for when you need that question answered
[18:37] <snap-l> SPOA, rather
[18:37] <snap-l> Fuck, why can't I type that
[18:37] <snap-l> SOPA
[18:38] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, meh on that ToC
[18:38] <rick_h> psh, python koans > than that "chapter" on "doing things to lists"
[18:39] <jrwren> A Byte of Python looks a bit better, more terse, but still intro... I want the advanced :p
[18:40] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, not going to find it really
[18:40] <brousch> rick_h: didn't you read an advanced python book last year?
[18:41] <rick_h> brousch: it was crazy
[18:41] <rick_h> I'm trying to find it
[18:41] <snap-l> It wasn't Expert Python, was it?
[18:41] <rick_h> no, that one is crack as well
[18:41] <jrwren> how crazy/
[18:42] <rick_h> I thought it was an apress book, I remember reading it on the kindle
[18:42] <brousch> i have lost track. is crack good or bad?
[18:42]  * rick_h checks my book folder
[18:42] <snap-l> Expert Python started off strong, and then became "here's revision control"
[18:42] <snap-l> Python Algorithms? FOundations of Python Networking?
[18:43] <jrwren> http://www.amazon.com/Expert-Python-Programming-practices-distributing/dp/184719494X  Martelli's review is great.
[18:43] <rick_h> snap-l: what was that one that jumped all over the place
[18:43] <rick_h> I think you read it first and then I read it on a plane
[18:44] <jrwren> python essential references looks good
[18:44] <snap-l> Yeah, I got a review copy of it
[18:44] <snap-l> and it jumped like crazy
[18:44] <rick_h> snap-l: yea
[18:44] <snap-l> WEnt from installing Python to the hairier parts of python OO
[18:45] <snap-l> and then finished with "revision control is good"
[18:45] <rick_h> oh, think ir was Pro Python
[18:45] <snap-l> Ah, yeah, that's it
[18:45] <rick_h> hmm, I can't find it locally. Wonder where I got it from then
[18:46] <brousch> maybe it was so bad you burned it
[18:46] <snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/review/R2C34BGYK149PD/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=184719494X&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=
[18:46] <snap-l> rick_h: I think you donated it at CHC
[18:46] <rick_h> ah, I did get it kindle format
[18:47] <brousch> ack! http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920000280.do
[18:47] <brousch> says it has been cancelled
[18:48] <snap-l> brousch: I can't say I'm surprised
[18:48] <snap-l> but I am disappointed
[18:48] <snap-l> Python Cookbook seriously needs some updating
[18:49] <rick_h> snap-l: yea, I'm stoked for that one
[18:49] <rick_h> brousch: ?!
[18:50] <rick_h> oh crap, that's not good.
[18:51] <snap-l> Wonder if they're going to relaunch it as a web site
[18:51] <snap-l> Frankly it would be better served in a non-dead-tree version
[18:51] <rick_h> guess it was a couple of years ago: http://dabeaz.blogspot.com/2010/12/oreilly-python-cookbook-python-3-all.html
[18:52] <snap-l> Yeah, I'm not seeing the cancellation notice
[18:53] <rick_h> yea, can't find it via google fu
[18:54] <brousch> Help me whine http://support.oreilly.com/oreilly/topics/_python_cookbook_3rd_edition_cancelled
[18:54] <rick_h> lol
[18:55] <brousch> you even get to pick  a little smiley/frowny face and there's a dedicated input for your feelings
[18:56] <rick_h> _stink_: you know Close
[18:56] <rick_h> Eyad Hailat
[18:56] <rick_h> ?
[18:56] <rick_h> bah, that came out bad
[18:59] <snap-l> I'm not sure how that could come out good. :)
[18:59] <rick_h> well somehow paste had "close " and the name in there
[19:05] <nullspace> snap-l: eh I dislike SOAP mostly because we work with a company that implemented a truly messed up configureation, inputs are strongly typed, outputs are not. Truly confusing
[19:06] <nullspace> SOAP doesn't seem like it'd be that bad if people used the tools and followed standards.
[19:06] <snap-l> nullspace: Do you just have keyword notifications for Java things? :)
[19:06] <snap-l> I meant SOPA
[19:07] <nullspace> ah yeah that just sucks period
[19:08] <nullspace> SOAP is webservices, lots of things use SOAP
[19:08] <_stink_> rick_h: naw, not well. i think he was in the CS dept at WSU when i was forst getting started
[19:09] <rick_h> _stink_: ok, got a linked in request and didn't ring a bell but saw WSU
[19:09] <_stink_> yeah
[19:09] <_stink_> i haven't accepted yet :P
[19:09] <rick_h> heh
[19:16] <brousch> ack, ugliest site evaar? http://www.pythondiary.com/blog/Feb.15,2012/django-and-jquery.html
[19:20] <nullspace> brousch: all I see is a blinding whitelight quickly followed by utter darkness
[19:20] <nullspace> kill it with fire
[19:22] <snap-l> brousch: That site is too clever by half
[19:24] <snap-l> Also reminds me that I should change my Wordpress theme. :)
[19:33] <Wolfger> holy mother of all coffee mugs... http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/mugs/ec57/?cpg=37449680&msg_id=37449680&et_rid=508488518&linkid=37449680_headline_ec57
[20:05] <ColonelPanic001> heh
[20:05] <tjagoda> Nicely done
[20:06] <tjagoda> Dimensions: 10" diameter x 6.5" tall.
[20:06] <brousch> why not just drink from the coffee pot?
[20:08] <tjagoda> Because the coffee pot is wimpy
[20:08] <tjagoda> And cannot be used as a portable sink
[20:09] <tjagoda> http://www.thinkgeek.com/interests/giftsforher/e89a/
[20:09] <tjagoda> I like to drink out of that in front of camera nerds.
[20:10] <tjagoda> And then they drink out of this to threaten me back http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/mugs/eaa0/
[20:24] <snap-l> brousch: Drinking from the coffeepot is iuncivilized
[20:28] <snap-l> *headdesk* http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/134103/github-like-pull-requests-without-github
[20:34] <nullspace> some people just don't rtfm
[20:48] <snap-l> jrwren: http://greenteapress.com/thinkpython/thinkpython.html <- Python Book
[20:49] <snap-l> Which leads to http://greenteapress.com/thinkstats/index.html and http://greenteapress.com/complexity/index.html
[20:49] <jrwren> looks good.
[20:49] <jrwren> I think between all these samples http://www.dabeaz.com/generators/  and these   http://dabeaz.com/coroutines/  I'll have a good foundation
[20:50] <snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, there's no substitute for just playing with examples in a debugger
[20:55] <jrwren> debugger?
[20:55] <jrwren> or repl?
[20:59] <snap-l> repl, ipdb, whatever
[20:59] <snap-l> code says more in 2 lines than a book can say in two paragraphs
[21:00] <snap-l> says the man that collects PDF files like they were pez dispensers at a flea market.
[22:20] <jrwren> https://jobs.github.com/positions/940ce13a-537b-11e1-9d70-f8e808895bec   awesome
[23:07] <snap-l> http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/120215_Robocalls_FCC.pdf