pleia2Unit193: re: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2012-February/000429.html the "No behind-the-scenes news in the public like details on how development is taking place." is an interesting comment01:09
pleia2I've had mixed feelings about whether we should be posting links to our meeting minutes and stuff01:10
pleia2but I think their point is that our site should be a polished product type thing for people, not full of confusing devel stuff01:10
pleia2so I'll do a call for help with marketing stuff on my blog and on our -devel mailing list, finished marketing products can go as a blog post on xubuntu.org :)01:11
Unit193Well, that's just what one person thinks, but a summery of what the outcome is could be interesting.  I was just making a simple note of someone elses comment on the site.01:12
* pleia2 nods01:13
pleia2feedback is good :)01:13
Unit193Oh, I'm on devel.01:13
nanotubewell, devel stuff can be there, just be a little more buried. (like, under the 'developers' link somewhere)01:44
nanotubei think he just means there's no stuff like "we've just decided to change keyboard shortcuts in the next release" right on the front page.01:45
ochosimicahg: hey, i was recently approached by the gmb dev because there are a few annoying bugs in the version in oneiric (already fixed in git) and he wanted to ask whether it would be possible to backport the fixes – people keep asking about them in the forum etc.08:31
micahgochosi: if they're cherry picked, sure08:42
micahgwe would also need test cases08:42
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
knomemadnick, !!!!!!10:17
madnickknome: i did upload it10:34
madnickdidnt you see my message?10:34
knomemadnick, actually no :)10:36
knomein that case...10:36
knomemr_pouit, !!!!!!10:36
madnickbrb, gonna make food10:37
knomebon appetit10:37
mr_pouitis it lp:~dr-madnick/+junk/ldm-zoo branch?11:33
mr_pouit(no license, no build system, and many hardcoded things in there. And I'm supposed to test and upload it today...)11:34
knomemr_pouit, we can fix bugs after FF, right?11:34
knomemadnick, can you elaborate with mr_pouit and create a build system and work with him on the issue generally?11:35
mr_pouitmadnick: knome: http://lionel.lefolgoc.net/misc/zoo-greeter-0.0.1.tar.gz <<< here's your branch with a quick'n'dirty autotoolization done (you need to fill in author(s), copyright holder(s), the correct license, add a license header for each vala file, etc...)15:06
knomemr_pouit, thanks A LOT :)15:06
mr_pouitstill many things to fix though :(15:07
knomelet's try to get it uploaded for now and then start fixing things.15:07
mr_pouitit won't even build here:15:07
knomecould that even go in xubuntu-default-settings for now?15:07
mr_pouitvirtualkeyboard.vala:42.26-42.27: error: Argument 1: Cannot convert from `int' to `Gdk.NativeWindow' keyboard_socket.add_id(id);15:07
mr_pouitor xubuntu-artwork, yeah15:07
knomei know that's not the cleanest approach, but i know that's been done before15:07
mr_pouitsomeone who knows vala need to look at it too15:08
knomeso, let me just double-check: even if it's uploaded we don't need to use it, if it doesn't seem to work?15:08
mr_pouitwell, it'd be better if it could be in its own package (xubuntu-artwork/xubuntu-default-settings only ship data files, not programs)15:08
mr_pouitI think it's best to fix it before the upload (it should be okay for an exception)15:09
knomeyes, of course15:09
mr_pouitanyway, bbl15:10
knomeokay, see you, and thanks15:10
madnickguys, i cannot begin to tell you how sorry i am, but i have another business meeting over dinner, then i need to go on the bus back to my town15:10
knomewell, if we're going to have an exception anyway, it's not a matter of hours15:10
madnickbasically, not even all the source is used to build it, and there was a mod in libwebkit's vala "header"15:11
madnicki am truly sorry about this15:11
knomenp. just let's do everything we can to fix it15:11
madnicki have the a build file, well not a real one, but a script, in virtualbox15:11
madnickwhich i can use the compile line to automate it etc15:12
knomeif i knew about build files and such, i'd use my own time to try to fix it15:12
knomebut really, just don't panic. go to your meeting, take your time and get back to it when you can15:12
knomei'd like to see it in a near-finished state in a week from now, or we might have to think about using the old lightdm theme with just wallpaper updated15:13
madnickYes, to be honest, I am not sure this greeter is worthy, I have not had nearly enough time to be happy about the result15:14
knome(week because then we still have time before the UI freeze without exceptions if we don't decide to use the new greeter15:14
knomeright, i see15:14
madnickBut Ill code and build as much as I can15:14
madnickand if you dont wanna use it15:15
madnickThen it is fine either way15:15
knomeokay, we'll be more wise next week15:15
knomeand we can use it in P+1 anyway15:15
knomei don't want to have big problems on boot with an LTS...15:15
madnickIndeed, nobody wants that15:15
* knome mentally prepares or using the old lightdm theme15:16
Unit193But at the same time, you want it to look nice as that means a lot for first impression.15:16
knomeof course.15:17
madnickIf I'd known sooner how this business thing would turn out, I would've taken on a lot less, perhaps just modified the current greeter to look better15:17
knomebut looks still can't jeopardize stability :)15:17
Unit193I'd guess you can't quite upload it as an option later for Pangolin?15:17
knomeSRU's are possible15:17
knomebut that's the smallest concern now15:17
Unit193Well yeah.15:18
ochosiwill there be enough time to improve the looks of the current greeter?15:18
madnickI got to go now15:18
ochosii mean it really looks like logging into windows-nt15:18
knomeimo that's not TOO bad...15:18
ochosisee ya later madnick ;)15:18
knomeit's a bit plain and somewhat ugly, but it works15:18
ochosisure, but it could be easy to improve at least a bit15:19
madnickI will be coding as much as I can, Ill get back to you when I get home15:19
knomeochosi, but yeah, just trying to improve the current look would work as well.15:19
knomeochosi, just feels a bit lukewarm, doesn't it?15:19
ochosii mean just to be sure not to have the same ugly greeter again15:19
ochosiit's nothing much15:20
knomei don't know we can do about it15:20
ochosibut probably better than nothing15:20
knomemaybe. that'd mean we should drop working on the new greeter NOW15:20
ochosinot sure, i dunno how hard it would be to slightly tweak the current greeter15:21
ochosibut really, i'd wait for whenever madnick is back and have a more clearheaded discussion then15:21
charlie-tcaall images are working for Xubuntu Precise15:49
charlie-tcaall images except desktop i386 are oversize15:50
knomehey charlie-tca :)15:50
charlie-tcaGood morning15:50
Unit193Good to see you again, started my sync maybe 20 ago.15:50
knomecharlie-tca, you might have read about our plan to include "application sets" into xubuntu15:50
charlie-tcaany help testing Ubuntu/Kubuntu 10.04.4 would be appreciated today. Tests are at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/207/builds15:50
charlie-tcaknome: I don't what application sets are, even15:51
knomecharlie-tca, okay, so basically, we're offering three choices:15:51
knomecharlie-tca, xubuntu / xfce only / accessibility15:51
charlie-tcaUnit193: if you can test our images today, I will work on 10.04.4 for Kubuntu15:51
charlie-tcaas sessions?15:51
Unit193charlie-tca: Busy day, but I hope to.15:51
knomecharlie-tca, if you choose accessibility, you will get all the accessibility applications installed, as well as some tweaks, like bigger terminal font15:52
knomecharlie-tca, no, as intallation alternatives15:52
knomecharlie-tca, with the ubiquity plugin the edubuntu team put together15:52
charlie-tcaI don't know anything about that, either15:52
knomecharlie-tca, with "xfce only" you naturally get only xfce installed on top of ubuntu15:53
knomecharlie-tca, well anyway, we might need your help :)15:53
charlie-tcawill there be a new menu when installing, then? It gives these choices?15:53
knomea simple dialog with these three alternatives15:53
charlie-tcaand will that be on all images, or desktop only?15:53
knomethat will be on desktop only, afaik15:54
charlie-tcaI suppose the first thing would be to figure out how to get orca to work in precise Xubuntu, then15:54
knomedoes that mean that some people might need to use alternative to install xubuntu, because the desktop image is inaccessible in the first place?15:55
charlie-tcano, it means if orca doesn't work, you don't have accessiblity working at all15:56
charlie-tcaOrca is a screen reader, which is required for blind users15:56
knomeright, but that would be the case even without the application sets?15:56
charlie-tcano, because we don't have it working yet15:57
knomeokay. for precise, i don't know if we can *improve* the accessibility much anyway, but we'd like to group the accessibility features to one set, if possible15:57
charlie-tcablind users normally have to use Ubuntu with unity 2d or gnome to get orca to work15:57
knomethere is some accessibility tools that are installed by default, isn't there?15:57
charlie-tcayes, mouse tweaks, giving the ability to use keys in place of mouse, and set up mouse to work easier with sticky keys and different speeds. Also, Onboard keyboard15:58
knomeyeah, those would be grouped to the accessibility installation group15:58
knomealong with some theming tweaks, like bigger terminal font, as i said :)15:59
charlie-tcaBetter make that a bigger default font. Your current fonts are way too small for visually impaired users to see15:59
knomethat's some good feedback too, and yes, will drive for that16:00
charlie-tcaAlso, probably want to look at both high-contrast and high-contrast inverse themes16:00
knomeyes those too16:00
ochosibtw, as far as i know xfce-upstream supports orca in the latest version16:00
knomethere's no high-contrast gtk3 theme though :(16:00
ochosiwe won't have that in precise most likely16:00
knomeyeah, but we are ready to have that in Q16:01
charlie-tcaupstream plans on 4.10 supporting orca. But without that, there is no point in having an accessibility install16:01
knomei have to disagree. bigger fonts and such are an accessibility improvement16:02
knomeof course, that's not complete accessibility and it won't help all the users that need accessibility, but it's a step forward16:02
knomeas i said, i don't think we generally can improve accessibility much in precise, but we can start preparing stuff for when we can16:03
knomethe other motivation to have these application sets is to have pure xfce on top of ubuntu16:04
Unit193That'll be fun to support....16:05
knomeanyway, if you knew the package names for those accessibility apps you mentioned (mouse tweaks, onboard) from the heart, those would help a lot16:05
knomeUnit193, what is?16:06
Unit193Different packagesets.16:07
knomewe're already installing everything what will be in those sets16:07
Unit193I'm going with Xfce on top Ubuntu is going to be different.16:07
knomeof course it's going to be different16:08
knomebut it's going to be exactly like ubuntu minimal + xfce16:09
knomewe should add a note in the description to only install "xfce only" if one exactly knew what they were doing16:10
knomeand it's not something you can't fix later16:10
knomejust install xubuntu-desktop16:10
knomealtogether, i just don't understand why you haven't raised this up earlier for discussion, if you think it's too hard to support16:12
Unit193[11:05:42] < Unit193> That'll be fun to support....16:12
Unit193Point out where I said "too hard", please.16:12
knomevery well, maybe i misjudged the tone16:13
knomebut i'd be really happy if things like this were brought up by others before16:13
knomeeven if we just decided it's okay to proceed as we thought16:13
Unit193Na, just was making a side note, not even bringing it up to talk about.16:14
knomewell you did16:14
Unit193I blame ochosi for that part.16:14
knomeand i think that was valuable, though it would have been more valuable in a meeting a month or two before16:15
ochosiUnit193: :p16:15
* knome doesn't blame people16:15
Unit193I don't think it's valuable, it doesn't (and wouldn't) change things, just something that I'll have to peek into.16:16
charlie-tcahm, lag is 684 seconds. May not be having a good day on IRC...16:19
charlie-tcalast thing I got here was 16:36
charlie-tca09:03:52       knome | of course, that's not complete accessibility and it won't help all the users that need accessibility, but it's a step 16:36
charlie-tca                     | forward                                                                                                               16:36
charlie-tcanow going to switch to xchat, it is easier to restart the server in it than weechat16:37
knomewell he's gone :P16:39
Unit193I know.16:40
knomei don't always know, because i sometimes have joins/parts on ignore16:40
Unit193I never do.16:41
knomeeasier like that in eg. #ubuntu-meeting16:42
Unit193I don't idle there, and I'm a bit obsessive about my logs.16:43
Unit193http://bugs.irssi.org/index.php?do=details&task_id=809 I'd use it if that was fixed.16:44
Unit193http://pastebin.com/sXj7yyPx and some from when you switched to xchat16:50
charlie-tcaknome: I don't know any of the app names by memory. I will have to research them to find them16:54
charlie-tcaSometimes, email to the mailing lists work better than irc discussions to get word out16:55
knomecharlie-tca, sure.17:00
knomewe just happened to cover that issue minutes before with ochosi 17:01
charlie-tcaSorry, not a good day on freenode here, apparently17:04
knomeyeah, np.17:05
knomeand don't worry about the package names, we will find out17:05
knomeso it's onboard and mouse tweaks? or is there something else too17:05
charlie-tcaI have to poke around a clean install and let you know17:06
knomeokay, thanks if you can17:06
charlie-tcaI will try to do that this week17:06
knomeyeah, that should work, since we need a FFe anyway17:07
jandruskSo XChat allows you to do what you want with the IGNORE directive?17:07
charlie-tcaWell, to be honest, without a screen reader that is working, an accessible install is not usable17:07
charlie-tcajandrusk: no idea. Never use IGNORE here17:08
knomecharlie-tca, yeah i understand that. i just want to take the initial step17:08
jandruskI think Unit193 was stating that earlier.17:08
Unit193jandrusk: That was a random one with knome, but I don't know if it does.17:09
jandruskUnit193: Thanks.17:09
jandruskBeen using irssi for several months and love it. 17:10
Unit193Sure is.17:10
jandruskLove the Perl integration. 17:11
knomeUnit193, well clearly, those should be possible to fix with perl scripts17:16
Unit193knome: Do I look like I know perl? (and it'd have to be light, already having a few small issues with resources.)17:17
knomeno, i don't know what you look like17:17
jandruskMaybe I'll will look at building a script. 17:22
Unit193charlie-tca: Do you care what type I do?17:51
charlie-tcaI follow my schedule at http://2tu.us/48mf17:52
charlie-tcabut any tests are welcome!17:52
Unit193I am doing at least one alt and one desktop. First desktop can't be split, that was how I did it last time. :P17:54
charlie-tcaThen do a whole disk install. It at least shows we did a test and it worked or failed.17:55
charlie-tcaI think we care more about whether or not they work then the type of partitioning used17:56
Unit193Manual, but yep, just asking if you wanted something before I picked.17:57
charlie-tcaThank you for asking.17:57
Unit193Bah, Ubiquity crashed on right click in partition still...18:01
charlie-tcaI haven't tried that lately18:02
Unit193Did it to me last time.18:02
Unit193It still works as long as you do not right click.18:36
=== jussio1 is now known as jussi
micahgmr_pouit: BTW, Ubuntu desktop is 20MB more oversized than us, so I figured to let them sort it out first, then we can sort it out, BTW, also, I'm planning on updating gimp tonight to 2.6.1221:35
micahgmr_pouit: and thanks for the meta upload21:35
charlie-tcaIt should settle down after feature freeze, when they quit adding so much to Ubuntu21:36
micahgwell, we're in a tougher spot, they're about to drop webkit-gtk2 which we can't do21:36
charlie-tcamicahg: might be between beta1 and 2 that we get things straightened out on size again21:36
micahgyeah, most likely21:36
charlie-tcaWe have to look at what they added for us that we don't need. Maybe nautilus, evolution, some other crap21:37
charlie-tcaThen we look at languages21:37
micahghmm, we shouldn't have any of that in our images (if we do, there are bugs in the dependency chains which we can fix now)21:37
charlie-tcaI know we shouldn't, but that don't mean we haven't21:38
charlie-tcaSame with languages, did they add a bunch to us again?21:38
micahgthey shouldn't be adding languages for us, those are in our specific seeds, not the platform ones AFAIK21:40
micahgdropping tango should give us another MB or 221:41
charlie-tcabut a lot of times, when they add the language packs to Ubuntu, they seem to give them to us also21:41
charlie-tcaI'm just going by past things that made the images grow21:42
micahgah, ok21:43
micahgwell, we'll  have see, I think we still 5-6 languages, so we have some leeway, but we can probably get by pruning other stuff21:43
charlie-tcayup. Wasn't ready to worry about it yet21:45
micahgtonight I just want to get the new gimp and aptitude in21:46
charlie-tcaGood idea21:46
knomemicahg, there was some discussion about things we could drop in #shimmer before, so you might want to talk with mr_pouit about that if you need a hand with that :)21:54
micahgnah, not worrying about dropping ATM, just pushing everything in before FF :)21:58
knomeyup, but if there is a need21:59
knomewe might think dropping some of those anyway for Q :)21:59
knomeeven if languages are kind of a "nice plus", i'm not really comfortable dropping them again and again21:59
knomepleia2, ohai22:33
knomepleia2, noticed our newest tweets? :)22:34
pleia2knome: yeah! :D22:37
knomelike the style?22:37
pleia2yep that's good22:38
knomeokay, good22:38
knomedon't want to be too "official"22:38

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!