| pleia2 | Unit193: re: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2012-February/000429.html the "No behind-the-scenes news in the public like details on how development is taking place." is an interesting comment | 01:09 |
|---|---|---|
| pleia2 | I've had mixed feelings about whether we should be posting links to our meeting minutes and stuff | 01:10 |
| pleia2 | but I think their point is that our site should be a polished product type thing for people, not full of confusing devel stuff | 01:10 |
| pleia2 | so I'll do a call for help with marketing stuff on my blog and on our -devel mailing list, finished marketing products can go as a blog post on xubuntu.org :) | 01:11 |
| Unit193 | Well, that's just what one person thinks, but a summery of what the outcome is could be interesting. I was just making a simple note of someone elses comment on the site. | 01:12 |
| * pleia2 nods | 01:13 | |
| pleia2 | feedback is good :) | 01:13 |
| Unit193 | Oh, I'm on devel. | 01:13 |
| nanotube | well, devel stuff can be there, just be a little more buried. (like, under the 'developers' link somewhere) | 01:44 |
| nanotube | i think he just means there's no stuff like "we've just decided to change keyboard shortcuts in the next release" right on the front page. | 01:45 |
| ochosi | micahg: hey, i was recently approached by the gmb dev because there are a few annoying bugs in the version in oneiric (already fixed in git) and he wanted to ask whether it would be possible to backport the fixes – people keep asking about them in the forum etc. | 08:31 |
| micahg | ochosi: if they're cherry picked, sure | 08:42 |
| micahg | we would also need test cases | 08:42 |
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
| knome | madnick, !!!!!! | 10:17 |
| madnick | knome: i did upload it | 10:34 |
| madnick | didnt you see my message? | 10:34 |
| knome | madnick, actually no :) | 10:36 |
| knome | in that case... | 10:36 |
| knome | mr_pouit, !!!!!! | 10:36 |
| madnick | :) | 10:36 |
| madnick | brb, gonna make food | 10:37 |
| knome | bon appetit | 10:37 |
| mr_pouit | is it lp:~dr-madnick/+junk/ldm-zoo branch? | 11:33 |
| mr_pouit | (no license, no build system, and many hardcoded things in there. And I'm supposed to test and upload it today...) | 11:34 |
| knome | mr_pouit, we can fix bugs after FF, right? | 11:34 |
| knome | madnick, can you elaborate with mr_pouit and create a build system and work with him on the issue generally? | 11:35 |
| mr_pouit | madnick: knome: http://lionel.lefolgoc.net/misc/zoo-greeter-0.0.1.tar.gz <<< here's your branch with a quick'n'dirty autotoolization done (you need to fill in author(s), copyright holder(s), the correct license, add a license header for each vala file, etc...) | 15:06 |
| knome | mr_pouit, thanks A LOT :) | 15:06 |
| mr_pouit | still many things to fix though :( | 15:07 |
| knome | yeah. | 15:07 |
| knome | let's try to get it uploaded for now and then start fixing things. | 15:07 |
| mr_pouit | it won't even build here: | 15:07 |
| knome | could that even go in xubuntu-default-settings for now? | 15:07 |
| mr_pouit | virtualkeyboard.vala:42.26-42.27: error: Argument 1: Cannot convert from `int' to `Gdk.NativeWindow' keyboard_socket.add_id(id); | 15:07 |
| mr_pouit | or xubuntu-artwork, yeah | 15:07 |
| knome | i know that's not the cleanest approach, but i know that's been done before | 15:07 |
| knome | mm-hmm | 15:07 |
| mr_pouit | someone who knows vala need to look at it too | 15:08 |
| knome | so, let me just double-check: even if it's uploaded we don't need to use it, if it doesn't seem to work? | 15:08 |
| mr_pouit | well, it'd be better if it could be in its own package (xubuntu-artwork/xubuntu-default-settings only ship data files, not programs) | 15:08 |
| mr_pouit | I think it's best to fix it before the upload (it should be okay for an exception) | 15:09 |
| knome | yes, of course | 15:09 |
| knome | okay | 15:09 |
| mr_pouit | anyway, bbl | 15:10 |
| knome | okay, see you, and thanks | 15:10 |
| madnick | guys, i cannot begin to tell you how sorry i am, but i have another business meeting over dinner, then i need to go on the bus back to my town | 15:10 |
| knome | well, if we're going to have an exception anyway, it's not a matter of hours | 15:10 |
| madnick | basically, not even all the source is used to build it, and there was a mod in libwebkit's vala "header" | 15:11 |
| madnick | i am truly sorry about this | 15:11 |
| knome | np. just let's do everything we can to fix it | 15:11 |
| madnick | i have the a build file, well not a real one, but a script, in virtualbox | 15:11 |
| madnick | which i can use the compile line to automate it etc | 15:12 |
| knome | if i knew about build files and such, i'd use my own time to try to fix it | 15:12 |
| knome | but really, just don't panic. go to your meeting, take your time and get back to it when you can | 15:12 |
| knome | i'd like to see it in a near-finished state in a week from now, or we might have to think about using the old lightdm theme with just wallpaper updated | 15:13 |
| madnick | Yes, to be honest, I am not sure this greeter is worthy, I have not had nearly enough time to be happy about the result | 15:14 |
| knome | (week because then we still have time before the UI freeze without exceptions if we don't decide to use the new greeter | 15:14 |
| knome | right, i see | 15:14 |
| madnick | But Ill code and build as much as I can | 15:14 |
| madnick | and if you dont wanna use it | 15:15 |
| madnick | Then it is fine either way | 15:15 |
| knome | okay, we'll be more wise next week | 15:15 |
| knome | and we can use it in P+1 anyway | 15:15 |
| knome | i don't want to have big problems on boot with an LTS... | 15:15 |
| madnick | Indeed, nobody wants that | 15:15 |
| * knome mentally prepares or using the old lightdm theme | 15:16 | |
| Unit193 | But at the same time, you want it to look nice as that means a lot for first impression. | 15:16 |
| knome | of course. | 15:17 |
| madnick | If I'd known sooner how this business thing would turn out, I would've taken on a lot less, perhaps just modified the current greeter to look better | 15:17 |
| knome | but looks still can't jeopardize stability :) | 15:17 |
| Unit193 | I'd guess you can't quite upload it as an option later for Pangolin? | 15:17 |
| knome | SRU's are possible | 15:17 |
| knome | but that's the smallest concern now | 15:17 |
| Unit193 | Well yeah. | 15:18 |
| ochosi | will there be enough time to improve the looks of the current greeter? | 15:18 |
| madnick | I got to go now | 15:18 |
| ochosi | i mean it really looks like logging into windows-nt | 15:18 |
| knome | imo that's not TOO bad... | 15:18 |
| ochosi | see ya later madnick ;) | 15:18 |
| knome | it's a bit plain and somewhat ugly, but it works | 15:18 |
| ochosi | sure, but it could be easy to improve at least a bit | 15:19 |
| madnick | I will be coding as much as I can, Ill get back to you when I get home | 15:19 |
| madnick | --> | 15:19 |
| knome | okay. | 15:19 |
| knome | thanks | 15:19 |
| knome | ochosi, but yeah, just trying to improve the current look would work as well. | 15:19 |
| knome | ochosi, just feels a bit lukewarm, doesn't it? | 15:19 |
| ochosi | i mean just to be sure not to have the same ugly greeter again | 15:19 |
| ochosi | sure | 15:19 |
| ochosi | it's nothing much | 15:20 |
| knome | i don't know we can do about it | 15:20 |
| ochosi | but probably better than nothing | 15:20 |
| knome | maybe. that'd mean we should drop working on the new greeter NOW | 15:20 |
| ochosi | not sure, i dunno how hard it would be to slightly tweak the current greeter | 15:21 |
| ochosi | but really, i'd wait for whenever madnick is back and have a more clearheaded discussion then | 15:21 |
| charlie-tca | all images are working for Xubuntu Precise | 15:49 |
| charlie-tca | all images except desktop i386 are oversize | 15:50 |
| knome | hey charlie-tca :) | 15:50 |
| charlie-tca | Good morning | 15:50 |
| Unit193 | Good to see you again, started my sync maybe 20 ago. | 15:50 |
| knome | charlie-tca, you might have read about our plan to include "application sets" into xubuntu | 15:50 |
| charlie-tca | any help testing Ubuntu/Kubuntu 10.04.4 would be appreciated today. Tests are at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/207/builds | 15:50 |
| charlie-tca | knome: I don't what application sets are, even | 15:51 |
| knome | charlie-tca, okay, so basically, we're offering three choices: | 15:51 |
| knome | charlie-tca, xubuntu / xfce only / accessibility | 15:51 |
| charlie-tca | Unit193: if you can test our images today, I will work on 10.04.4 for Kubuntu | 15:51 |
| charlie-tca | as sessions? | 15:51 |
| Unit193 | charlie-tca: Busy day, but I hope to. | 15:51 |
| knome | charlie-tca, if you choose accessibility, you will get all the accessibility applications installed, as well as some tweaks, like bigger terminal font | 15:52 |
| knome | charlie-tca, no, as intallation alternatives | 15:52 |
| knome | charlie-tca, with the ubiquity plugin the edubuntu team put together | 15:52 |
| charlie-tca | I don't know anything about that, either | 15:52 |
| knome | charlie-tca, with "xfce only" you naturally get only xfce installed on top of ubuntu | 15:53 |
| knome | charlie-tca, well anyway, we might need your help :) | 15:53 |
| charlie-tca | will there be a new menu when installing, then? It gives these choices? | 15:53 |
| knome | yes | 15:53 |
| knome | a simple dialog with these three alternatives | 15:53 |
| charlie-tca | and will that be on all images, or desktop only? | 15:53 |
| knome | that will be on desktop only, afaik | 15:54 |
| charlie-tca | I suppose the first thing would be to figure out how to get orca to work in precise Xubuntu, then | 15:54 |
| knome | does that mean that some people might need to use alternative to install xubuntu, because the desktop image is inaccessible in the first place? | 15:55 |
| charlie-tca | no, it means if orca doesn't work, you don't have accessiblity working at all | 15:56 |
| charlie-tca | Orca is a screen reader, which is required for blind users | 15:56 |
| knome | right, but that would be the case even without the application sets? | 15:56 |
| charlie-tca | no, because we don't have it working yet | 15:57 |
| knome | okay. for precise, i don't know if we can *improve* the accessibility much anyway, but we'd like to group the accessibility features to one set, if possible | 15:57 |
| charlie-tca | blind users normally have to use Ubuntu with unity 2d or gnome to get orca to work | 15:57 |
| knome | there is some accessibility tools that are installed by default, isn't there? | 15:57 |
| charlie-tca | yes, mouse tweaks, giving the ability to use keys in place of mouse, and set up mouse to work easier with sticky keys and different speeds. Also, Onboard keyboard | 15:58 |
| knome | yeah, those would be grouped to the accessibility installation group | 15:58 |
| knome | along with some theming tweaks, like bigger terminal font, as i said :) | 15:59 |
| charlie-tca | Better make that a bigger default font. Your current fonts are way too small for visually impaired users to see | 15:59 |
| knome | that's some good feedback too, and yes, will drive for that | 16:00 |
| charlie-tca | Also, probably want to look at both high-contrast and high-contrast inverse themes | 16:00 |
| knome | yes those too | 16:00 |
| ochosi | btw, as far as i know xfce-upstream supports orca in the latest version | 16:00 |
| knome | there's no high-contrast gtk3 theme though :( | 16:00 |
| ochosi | we won't have that in precise most likely | 16:00 |
| knome | yeah, but we are ready to have that in Q | 16:01 |
| charlie-tca | upstream plans on 4.10 supporting orca. But without that, there is no point in having an accessibility install | 16:01 |
| knome | i have to disagree. bigger fonts and such are an accessibility improvement | 16:02 |
| knome | of course, that's not complete accessibility and it won't help all the users that need accessibility, but it's a step forward | 16:02 |
| knome | as i said, i don't think we generally can improve accessibility much in precise, but we can start preparing stuff for when we can | 16:03 |
| knome | the other motivation to have these application sets is to have pure xfce on top of ubuntu | 16:04 |
| Unit193 | That'll be fun to support.... | 16:05 |
| knome | anyway, if you knew the package names for those accessibility apps you mentioned (mouse tweaks, onboard) from the heart, those would help a lot | 16:05 |
| knome | Unit193, what is? | 16:06 |
| knome | s/is/will/ | 16:06 |
| Unit193 | Different packagesets. | 16:07 |
| knome | how? | 16:07 |
| knome | we're already installing everything what will be in those sets | 16:07 |
| Unit193 | I'm going with Xfce on top Ubuntu is going to be different. | 16:07 |
| knome | of course it's going to be different | 16:08 |
| knome | but it's going to be exactly like ubuntu minimal + xfce | 16:09 |
| knome | we should add a note in the description to only install "xfce only" if one exactly knew what they were doing | 16:10 |
| knome | and it's not something you can't fix later | 16:10 |
| knome | just install xubuntu-desktop | 16:10 |
| knome | altogether, i just don't understand why you haven't raised this up earlier for discussion, if you think it's too hard to support | 16:12 |
| Unit193 | [11:05:42] < Unit193> That'll be fun to support.... | 16:12 |
| Unit193 | Point out where I said "too hard", please. | 16:12 |
| knome | very well, maybe i misjudged the tone | 16:13 |
| knome | but i'd be really happy if things like this were brought up by others before | 16:13 |
| ochosi | +1 | 16:13 |
| knome | even if we just decided it's okay to proceed as we thought | 16:13 |
| Unit193 | Na, just was making a side note, not even bringing it up to talk about. | 16:14 |
| knome | well you did | 16:14 |
| Unit193 | I blame ochosi for that part. | 16:14 |
| knome | and i think that was valuable, though it would have been more valuable in a meeting a month or two before | 16:15 |
| ochosi | Unit193: :p | 16:15 |
| * knome doesn't blame people | 16:15 | |
| Unit193 | I don't think it's valuable, it doesn't (and wouldn't) change things, just something that I'll have to peek into. | 16:16 |
| charlie-tca | hm, lag is 684 seconds. May not be having a good day on IRC... | 16:19 |
| charlie-tca | last thing I got here was | 16:36 |
| charlie-tca | 09:03:52 knome | of course, that's not complete accessibility and it won't help all the users that need accessibility, but it's a step | 16:36 |
| charlie-tca | | forward | 16:36 |
| charlie-tca | now going to switch to xchat, it is easier to restart the server in it than weechat | 16:37 |
| knome | mmh | 16:38 |
| Unit193 | http://pastebin.com/sXj7yyPx | 16:39 |
| knome | well he's gone :P | 16:39 |
| Unit193 | I know. | 16:40 |
| knome | i don't always know, because i sometimes have joins/parts on ignore | 16:40 |
| Unit193 | I never do. | 16:41 |
| knome | easier like that in eg. #ubuntu-meeting | 16:42 |
| Unit193 | I don't idle there, and I'm a bit obsessive about my logs. | 16:43 |
| Unit193 | http://bugs.irssi.org/index.php?do=details&task_id=809 I'd use it if that was fixed. | 16:44 |
| knome | ha. | 16:45 |
| Unit193 | http://pastebin.com/sXj7yyPx and some from when you switched to xchat | 16:50 |
| charlie-tca | Thanks | 16:51 |
| charlie-tca | knome: I don't know any of the app names by memory. I will have to research them to find them | 16:54 |
| charlie-tca | Sometimes, email to the mailing lists work better than irc discussions to get word out | 16:55 |
| knome | charlie-tca, sure. | 17:00 |
| knome | we just happened to cover that issue minutes before with ochosi | 17:01 |
| charlie-tca | Sorry, not a good day on freenode here, apparently | 17:04 |
| knome | yeah, np. | 17:05 |
| knome | and don't worry about the package names, we will find out | 17:05 |
| charlie-tca | Okay | 17:05 |
| knome | so it's onboard and mouse tweaks? or is there something else too | 17:05 |
| charlie-tca | I have to poke around a clean install and let you know | 17:06 |
| knome | okay, thanks if you can | 17:06 |
| charlie-tca | I will try to do that this week | 17:06 |
| knome | yeah, that should work, since we need a FFe anyway | 17:07 |
| jandrusk | So XChat allows you to do what you want with the IGNORE directive? | 17:07 |
| charlie-tca | Well, to be honest, without a screen reader that is working, an accessible install is not usable | 17:07 |
| charlie-tca | jandrusk: no idea. Never use IGNORE here | 17:08 |
| knome | charlie-tca, yeah i understand that. i just want to take the initial step | 17:08 |
| jandrusk | I think Unit193 was stating that earlier. | 17:08 |
| Unit193 | jandrusk: That was a random one with knome, but I don't know if it does. | 17:09 |
| jandrusk | Unit193: Thanks. | 17:09 |
| jandrusk | Been using irssi for several months and love it. | 17:10 |
| Unit193 | Sure is. | 17:10 |
| jandrusk | Love the Perl integration. | 17:11 |
| knome | Unit193, well clearly, those should be possible to fix with perl scripts | 17:16 |
| Unit193 | knome: Do I look like I know perl? (and it'd have to be light, already having a few small issues with resources.) | 17:17 |
| knome | no, i don't know what you look like | 17:17 |
| jandrusk | Maybe I'll will look at building a script. | 17:22 |
| Unit193 | charlie-tca: Do you care what type I do? | 17:51 |
| charlie-tca | I follow my schedule at http://2tu.us/48mf | 17:52 |
| charlie-tca | but any tests are welcome! | 17:52 |
| Unit193 | I am doing at least one alt and one desktop. First desktop can't be split, that was how I did it last time. :P | 17:54 |
| charlie-tca | Then do a whole disk install. It at least shows we did a test and it worked or failed. | 17:55 |
| charlie-tca | I think we care more about whether or not they work then the type of partitioning used | 17:56 |
| Unit193 | Manual, but yep, just asking if you wanted something before I picked. | 17:57 |
| charlie-tca | Thank you for asking. | 17:57 |
| Unit193 | Bah, Ubiquity crashed on right click in partition still... | 18:01 |
| charlie-tca | really? | 18:02 |
| charlie-tca | I haven't tried that lately | 18:02 |
| Unit193 | Did it to me last time. | 18:02 |
| Unit193 | It still works as long as you do not right click. | 18:36 |
| === jussio1 is now known as jussi | ||
| micahg | mr_pouit: BTW, Ubuntu desktop is 20MB more oversized than us, so I figured to let them sort it out first, then we can sort it out, BTW, also, I'm planning on updating gimp tonight to 2.6.12 | 21:35 |
| micahg | mr_pouit: and thanks for the meta upload | 21:35 |
| charlie-tca | It should settle down after feature freeze, when they quit adding so much to Ubuntu | 21:36 |
| micahg | well, we're in a tougher spot, they're about to drop webkit-gtk2 which we can't do | 21:36 |
| charlie-tca | micahg: might be between beta1 and 2 that we get things straightened out on size again | 21:36 |
| micahg | yeah, most likely | 21:36 |
| charlie-tca | We have to look at what they added for us that we don't need. Maybe nautilus, evolution, some other crap | 21:37 |
| charlie-tca | Then we look at languages | 21:37 |
| micahg | hmm, we shouldn't have any of that in our images (if we do, there are bugs in the dependency chains which we can fix now) | 21:37 |
| charlie-tca | I know we shouldn't, but that don't mean we haven't | 21:38 |
| charlie-tca | Same with languages, did they add a bunch to us again? | 21:38 |
| micahg | they shouldn't be adding languages for us, those are in our specific seeds, not the platform ones AFAIK | 21:40 |
| micahg | dropping tango should give us another MB or 2 | 21:41 |
| charlie-tca | but a lot of times, when they add the language packs to Ubuntu, they seem to give them to us also | 21:41 |
| charlie-tca | I'm just going by past things that made the images grow | 21:42 |
| micahg | ah, ok | 21:43 |
| micahg | well, we'll have see, I think we still 5-6 languages, so we have some leeway, but we can probably get by pruning other stuff | 21:43 |
| charlie-tca | yup. Wasn't ready to worry about it yet | 21:45 |
| micahg | tonight I just want to get the new gimp and aptitude in | 21:46 |
| charlie-tca | Good idea | 21:46 |
| knome | micahg, there was some discussion about things we could drop in #shimmer before, so you might want to talk with mr_pouit about that if you need a hand with that :) | 21:54 |
| micahg | nah, not worrying about dropping ATM, just pushing everything in before FF :) | 21:58 |
| knome | yup, but if there is a need | 21:59 |
| knome | we might think dropping some of those anyway for Q :) | 21:59 |
| knome | even if languages are kind of a "nice plus", i'm not really comfortable dropping them again and again | 21:59 |
| knome | pleia2, ohai | 22:33 |
| knome | pleia2, noticed our newest tweets? :) | 22:34 |
| pleia2 | knome: yeah! :D | 22:37 |
| knome | like the style? | 22:37 |
| pleia2 | yep that's good | 22:38 |
| knome | okay, good | 22:38 |
| knome | don't want to be too "official" | 22:38 |
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