[01:09] Unit193: re: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2012-February/000429.html the "No behind-the-scenes news in the public like details on how development is taking place." is an interesting comment [01:10] I've had mixed feelings about whether we should be posting links to our meeting minutes and stuff [01:10] but I think their point is that our site should be a polished product type thing for people, not full of confusing devel stuff [01:11] so I'll do a call for help with marketing stuff on my blog and on our -devel mailing list, finished marketing products can go as a blog post on xubuntu.org :) [01:12] Well, that's just what one person thinks, but a summery of what the outcome is could be interesting. I was just making a simple note of someone elses comment on the site. [01:13] * pleia2 nods [01:13] feedback is good :) [01:13] Oh, I'm on devel. [01:44] well, devel stuff can be there, just be a little more buried. (like, under the 'developers' link somewhere) [01:45] i think he just means there's no stuff like "we've just decided to change keyboard shortcuts in the next release" right on the front page. [08:31] micahg: hey, i was recently approached by the gmb dev because there are a few annoying bugs in the version in oneiric (already fixed in git) and he wanted to ask whether it would be possible to backport the fixes – people keep asking about them in the forum etc. [08:42] ochosi: if they're cherry picked, sure [08:42] we would also need test cases === yofel_ is now known as yofel [10:17] madnick, !!!!!! [10:34] knome: i did upload it [10:34] didnt you see my message? [10:36] madnick, actually no :) [10:36] in that case... [10:36] mr_pouit, !!!!!! [10:36] :) [10:37] brb, gonna make food [10:37] bon appetit [11:33] is it lp:~dr-madnick/+junk/ldm-zoo branch? [11:34] (no license, no build system, and many hardcoded things in there. And I'm supposed to test and upload it today...) [11:34] mr_pouit, we can fix bugs after FF, right? [11:35] madnick, can you elaborate with mr_pouit and create a build system and work with him on the issue generally? [15:06] madnick: knome: http://lionel.lefolgoc.net/misc/zoo-greeter-0.0.1.tar.gz <<< here's your branch with a quick'n'dirty autotoolization done (you need to fill in author(s), copyright holder(s), the correct license, add a license header for each vala file, etc...) [15:06] mr_pouit, thanks A LOT :) [15:07] still many things to fix though :( [15:07] yeah. [15:07] let's try to get it uploaded for now and then start fixing things. [15:07] it won't even build here: [15:07] could that even go in xubuntu-default-settings for now? [15:07] virtualkeyboard.vala:42.26-42.27: error: Argument 1: Cannot convert from `int' to `Gdk.NativeWindow' keyboard_socket.add_id(id); [15:07] or xubuntu-artwork, yeah [15:07] i know that's not the cleanest approach, but i know that's been done before [15:07] mm-hmm [15:08] someone who knows vala need to look at it too [15:08] so, let me just double-check: even if it's uploaded we don't need to use it, if it doesn't seem to work? [15:08] well, it'd be better if it could be in its own package (xubuntu-artwork/xubuntu-default-settings only ship data files, not programs) [15:09] I think it's best to fix it before the upload (it should be okay for an exception) [15:09] yes, of course [15:09] okay [15:10] anyway, bbl [15:10] okay, see you, and thanks [15:10] guys, i cannot begin to tell you how sorry i am, but i have another business meeting over dinner, then i need to go on the bus back to my town [15:10] well, if we're going to have an exception anyway, it's not a matter of hours [15:11] basically, not even all the source is used to build it, and there was a mod in libwebkit's vala "header" [15:11] i am truly sorry about this [15:11] np. just let's do everything we can to fix it [15:11] i have the a build file, well not a real one, but a script, in virtualbox [15:12] which i can use the compile line to automate it etc [15:12] if i knew about build files and such, i'd use my own time to try to fix it [15:12] but really, just don't panic. go to your meeting, take your time and get back to it when you can [15:13] i'd like to see it in a near-finished state in a week from now, or we might have to think about using the old lightdm theme with just wallpaper updated [15:14] Yes, to be honest, I am not sure this greeter is worthy, I have not had nearly enough time to be happy about the result [15:14] (week because then we still have time before the UI freeze without exceptions if we don't decide to use the new greeter [15:14] right, i see [15:14] But Ill code and build as much as I can [15:15] and if you dont wanna use it [15:15] Then it is fine either way [15:15] okay, we'll be more wise next week [15:15] and we can use it in P+1 anyway [15:15] i don't want to have big problems on boot with an LTS... [15:15] Indeed, nobody wants that [15:16] * knome mentally prepares or using the old lightdm theme [15:16] But at the same time, you want it to look nice as that means a lot for first impression. [15:17] of course. [15:17] If I'd known sooner how this business thing would turn out, I would've taken on a lot less, perhaps just modified the current greeter to look better [15:17] but looks still can't jeopardize stability :) [15:17] I'd guess you can't quite upload it as an option later for Pangolin? [15:17] SRU's are possible [15:17] but that's the smallest concern now [15:18] Well yeah. [15:18] will there be enough time to improve the looks of the current greeter? [15:18] I got to go now [15:18] i mean it really looks like logging into windows-nt [15:18] imo that's not TOO bad... [15:18] see ya later madnick ;) [15:18] it's a bit plain and somewhat ugly, but it works [15:19] sure, but it could be easy to improve at least a bit [15:19] I will be coding as much as I can, Ill get back to you when I get home [15:19] --> [15:19] okay. [15:19] thanks [15:19] ochosi, but yeah, just trying to improve the current look would work as well. [15:19] ochosi, just feels a bit lukewarm, doesn't it? [15:19] i mean just to be sure not to have the same ugly greeter again [15:19] sure [15:20] it's nothing much [15:20] i don't know we can do about it [15:20] but probably better than nothing [15:20] maybe. that'd mean we should drop working on the new greeter NOW [15:21] not sure, i dunno how hard it would be to slightly tweak the current greeter [15:21] but really, i'd wait for whenever madnick is back and have a more clearheaded discussion then [15:49] all images are working for Xubuntu Precise [15:50] all images except desktop i386 are oversize [15:50] hey charlie-tca :) [15:50] Good morning [15:50] Good to see you again, started my sync maybe 20 ago. [15:50] charlie-tca, you might have read about our plan to include "application sets" into xubuntu [15:50] any help testing Ubuntu/Kubuntu 10.04.4 would be appreciated today. Tests are at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/207/builds [15:51] knome: I don't what application sets are, even [15:51] charlie-tca, okay, so basically, we're offering three choices: [15:51] charlie-tca, xubuntu / xfce only / accessibility [15:51] Unit193: if you can test our images today, I will work on 10.04.4 for Kubuntu [15:51] as sessions? [15:51] charlie-tca: Busy day, but I hope to. [15:52] charlie-tca, if you choose accessibility, you will get all the accessibility applications installed, as well as some tweaks, like bigger terminal font [15:52] charlie-tca, no, as intallation alternatives [15:52] charlie-tca, with the ubiquity plugin the edubuntu team put together [15:52] I don't know anything about that, either [15:53] charlie-tca, with "xfce only" you naturally get only xfce installed on top of ubuntu [15:53] charlie-tca, well anyway, we might need your help :) [15:53] will there be a new menu when installing, then? It gives these choices? [15:53] yes [15:53] a simple dialog with these three alternatives [15:53] and will that be on all images, or desktop only? [15:54] that will be on desktop only, afaik [15:54] I suppose the first thing would be to figure out how to get orca to work in precise Xubuntu, then [15:55] does that mean that some people might need to use alternative to install xubuntu, because the desktop image is inaccessible in the first place? [15:56] no, it means if orca doesn't work, you don't have accessiblity working at all [15:56] Orca is a screen reader, which is required for blind users [15:56] right, but that would be the case even without the application sets? [15:57] no, because we don't have it working yet [15:57] okay. for precise, i don't know if we can *improve* the accessibility much anyway, but we'd like to group the accessibility features to one set, if possible [15:57] blind users normally have to use Ubuntu with unity 2d or gnome to get orca to work [15:57] there is some accessibility tools that are installed by default, isn't there? [15:58] yes, mouse tweaks, giving the ability to use keys in place of mouse, and set up mouse to work easier with sticky keys and different speeds. Also, Onboard keyboard [15:58] yeah, those would be grouped to the accessibility installation group [15:59] along with some theming tweaks, like bigger terminal font, as i said :) [15:59] Better make that a bigger default font. Your current fonts are way too small for visually impaired users to see [16:00] that's some good feedback too, and yes, will drive for that [16:00] Also, probably want to look at both high-contrast and high-contrast inverse themes [16:00] yes those too [16:00] btw, as far as i know xfce-upstream supports orca in the latest version [16:00] there's no high-contrast gtk3 theme though :( [16:00] we won't have that in precise most likely [16:01] yeah, but we are ready to have that in Q [16:01] upstream plans on 4.10 supporting orca. But without that, there is no point in having an accessibility install [16:02] i have to disagree. bigger fonts and such are an accessibility improvement [16:02] of course, that's not complete accessibility and it won't help all the users that need accessibility, but it's a step forward [16:03] as i said, i don't think we generally can improve accessibility much in precise, but we can start preparing stuff for when we can [16:04] the other motivation to have these application sets is to have pure xfce on top of ubuntu [16:05] That'll be fun to support.... [16:05] anyway, if you knew the package names for those accessibility apps you mentioned (mouse tweaks, onboard) from the heart, those would help a lot [16:06] Unit193, what is? [16:06] s/is/will/ [16:07] Different packagesets. [16:07] how? [16:07] we're already installing everything what will be in those sets [16:07] I'm going with Xfce on top Ubuntu is going to be different. [16:08] of course it's going to be different [16:09] but it's going to be exactly like ubuntu minimal + xfce [16:10] we should add a note in the description to only install "xfce only" if one exactly knew what they were doing [16:10] and it's not something you can't fix later [16:10] just install xubuntu-desktop [16:12] altogether, i just don't understand why you haven't raised this up earlier for discussion, if you think it's too hard to support [16:12] [11:05:42] < Unit193> That'll be fun to support.... [16:12] Point out where I said "too hard", please. [16:13] very well, maybe i misjudged the tone [16:13] but i'd be really happy if things like this were brought up by others before [16:13] +1 [16:13] even if we just decided it's okay to proceed as we thought [16:14] Na, just was making a side note, not even bringing it up to talk about. [16:14] well you did [16:14] I blame ochosi for that part. [16:15] and i think that was valuable, though it would have been more valuable in a meeting a month or two before [16:15] Unit193: :p [16:15] * knome doesn't blame people [16:16] I don't think it's valuable, it doesn't (and wouldn't) change things, just something that I'll have to peek into. [16:19] hm, lag is 684 seconds. May not be having a good day on IRC... [16:36] last thing I got here was [16:36] 09:03:52 knome | of course, that's not complete accessibility and it won't help all the users that need accessibility, but it's a step [16:36] | forward [16:37] now going to switch to xchat, it is easier to restart the server in it than weechat [16:38] mmh [16:39] http://pastebin.com/sXj7yyPx [16:39] well he's gone :P [16:40] I know. [16:40] i don't always know, because i sometimes have joins/parts on ignore [16:41] I never do. [16:42] easier like that in eg. #ubuntu-meeting [16:43] I don't idle there, and I'm a bit obsessive about my logs. [16:44] http://bugs.irssi.org/index.php?do=details&task_id=809 I'd use it if that was fixed. [16:45] ha. [16:50] http://pastebin.com/sXj7yyPx and some from when you switched to xchat [16:51] Thanks [16:54] knome: I don't know any of the app names by memory. I will have to research them to find them [16:55] Sometimes, email to the mailing lists work better than irc discussions to get word out [17:00] charlie-tca, sure. [17:01] we just happened to cover that issue minutes before with ochosi [17:04] Sorry, not a good day on freenode here, apparently [17:05] yeah, np. [17:05] and don't worry about the package names, we will find out [17:05] Okay [17:05] so it's onboard and mouse tweaks? or is there something else too [17:06] I have to poke around a clean install and let you know [17:06] okay, thanks if you can [17:06] I will try to do that this week [17:07] yeah, that should work, since we need a FFe anyway [17:07] So XChat allows you to do what you want with the IGNORE directive? [17:07] Well, to be honest, without a screen reader that is working, an accessible install is not usable [17:08] jandrusk: no idea. Never use IGNORE here [17:08] charlie-tca, yeah i understand that. i just want to take the initial step [17:08] I think Unit193 was stating that earlier. [17:09] jandrusk: That was a random one with knome, but I don't know if it does. [17:09] Unit193: Thanks. [17:10] Been using irssi for several months and love it. [17:10] Sure is. [17:11] Love the Perl integration. [17:16] Unit193, well clearly, those should be possible to fix with perl scripts [17:17] knome: Do I look like I know perl? (and it'd have to be light, already having a few small issues with resources.) [17:17] no, i don't know what you look like [17:22] Maybe I'll will look at building a script. [17:51] charlie-tca: Do you care what type I do? [17:52] I follow my schedule at http://2tu.us/48mf [17:52] but any tests are welcome! [17:54] I am doing at least one alt and one desktop. First desktop can't be split, that was how I did it last time. :P [17:55] Then do a whole disk install. It at least shows we did a test and it worked or failed. [17:56] I think we care more about whether or not they work then the type of partitioning used [17:57] Manual, but yep, just asking if you wanted something before I picked. [17:57] Thank you for asking. [18:01] Bah, Ubiquity crashed on right click in partition still... [18:02] really? [18:02] I haven't tried that lately [18:02] Did it to me last time. [18:36] It still works as long as you do not right click. === jussio1 is now known as jussi [21:35] mr_pouit: BTW, Ubuntu desktop is 20MB more oversized than us, so I figured to let them sort it out first, then we can sort it out, BTW, also, I'm planning on updating gimp tonight to 2.6.12 [21:35] mr_pouit: and thanks for the meta upload [21:36] It should settle down after feature freeze, when they quit adding so much to Ubuntu [21:36] well, we're in a tougher spot, they're about to drop webkit-gtk2 which we can't do [21:36] micahg: might be between beta1 and 2 that we get things straightened out on size again [21:36] yeah, most likely [21:37] We have to look at what they added for us that we don't need. Maybe nautilus, evolution, some other crap [21:37] Then we look at languages [21:37] hmm, we shouldn't have any of that in our images (if we do, there are bugs in the dependency chains which we can fix now) [21:38] I know we shouldn't, but that don't mean we haven't [21:38] Same with languages, did they add a bunch to us again? [21:40] they shouldn't be adding languages for us, those are in our specific seeds, not the platform ones AFAIK [21:41] dropping tango should give us another MB or 2 [21:41] but a lot of times, when they add the language packs to Ubuntu, they seem to give them to us also [21:42] I'm just going by past things that made the images grow [21:43] ah, ok [21:43] well, we'll have see, I think we still 5-6 languages, so we have some leeway, but we can probably get by pruning other stuff [21:45] yup. Wasn't ready to worry about it yet [21:46] tonight I just want to get the new gimp and aptitude in [21:46] Good idea [21:54] micahg, there was some discussion about things we could drop in #shimmer before, so you might want to talk with mr_pouit about that if you need a hand with that :) [21:58] nah, not worrying about dropping ATM, just pushing everything in before FF :) [21:59] yup, but if there is a need [21:59] we might think dropping some of those anyway for Q :) [21:59] even if languages are kind of a "nice plus", i'm not really comfortable dropping them again and again [22:33] pleia2, ohai [22:34] pleia2, noticed our newest tweets? :) [22:37] knome: yeah! :D [22:37] like the style? [22:38] yep that's good [22:38] okay, good [22:38] don't want to be too "official"