[00:22] hallo [00:22] How do I make the scroll wheel scroll farther in firefox? === XartaoX is now known as artao === beck is now known as designbybeck === christian is now known as Guest2709 [01:35] I am new to Linux Mint 12, how do I make the programs from last session run? I am using GNOME as desktop environment. === vivek is now known as Guest54997 === virusuy is now known as empanada-de-merl === empanada-de-merl is now known as HackDark === HackDark is now known as virusuy [01:55] Hello I'd like to change the default/global screensaver settings for all users (using kubuntu as a terminal server)... and also so the users can't change the setting === anon_ is now known as _SKY_ === _SKY_ is now known as _SKY___ === artao is now known as artao|zzzzz [06:46] Hello! I'm finding delay in boot time and these are the bootcharts for last two booting - http://imagebin.org/199031 http://imagebin.org/199035 . I'm not too much concerned about boot time but can anyone explain me what exactly is consuming time and how can I fix it? === orated_ is now known as orated [10:30] What's the hotkey to send/recive mails in kmail? [10:35] K350: for Kmail it's ctrl+L [10:41] Tm_T: Ahh, thanks a lot! :-) [10:44] K350: that is by default, as this is KDE you can change it [10:49] Tm_T: Where do I see and change Kmail hotkeys? [10:55] K350: open kmail, and in menu, settings -> configure hotkeys [11:11] Tm_T: Thanks a lot - again :-) === peace_ is now known as Peace- [12:09] hi all [12:09] i have a question [12:10] Go for it, jameslor. [12:10] jameslord. sorry. ;P [12:13] what is the command to connect wifi ? [12:16] It's more than one command, jameslord. Check out this page: http://colekcolek.com/2011/07/24/connecting-to-wifi-from-command-line-linux/ [12:20] Hello! I'm getting error while update packages - http://imagebin.org/199194 . sources.list - http://paste.ubuntu.com/844148/. How can I fix it please? [12:42] Good morning. === dan__ is now known as sdkjkfjdfkjdfjkd [12:46] Hey guys, I'm trying to install a program I used to use called KShutdown. [12:47] The command line to install it should be; "sudo apt-get install kshutdown" but it comes back with an error that says "E: Couldn't find package kshutdown" [12:48] !kshutdown [12:51] LINKSWORD2: i am using it all the time [12:51] !info kshutdown [12:51] kshutdown (source: kshutdown): advanced shut down utility for KDE. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.0final-1 (oneiric), package size 123 kB, installed size 824 kB [12:51] it is in repos [12:52] Well, I can't get it to install. [12:53] LINKSWORD2: make sure you have universe repositorium turned on [12:53] How? [12:54] go to muon package manager>settings>configure software sources [12:55] universe should be checked [12:55] and change server to main [12:56] schnelle_: I'm using Kubuntu 9.10 because of the age of my system. My graphics card will not support Kubuntu 11 or newer. [12:57] LINKSWORD2: then that option is in kpackagekit [12:58] What I don't understand is why kshutdown will not install through Konsole... [12:59] 'coz your software sources is not pointing it to the repository containing that package [12:59] orated_: Can you help me find the appropriate repository line? [12:59] kdesudo kate /etc/apt/sources.list [13:00] look for lines where says "universe". if some line have # sign at begging, delete it [13:01] for example #deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu oneiric-security universe [13:02] you should delete # [13:02] LINKSWORD2: As schnelle_ said, go to muon/kpackagekit and then check universe section under 'Ubuntu Software' or edit /etc/apt/sources.list [13:02] then save changes, sudo apt-get update [13:02] sudo apt-get install kshutdown [13:04] LINKSWORD2: and what graphic card do you have? kubuntu 9.10 just suck compared to 11.10 or next 12.04 [13:04] Errors in the Konsole output. Will Pastebin if requested. [13:04] !pastebin [13:04] For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic. [13:04] paste it [13:06] http://paste.ubuntu.com/844338 [13:06] Howdy all === Tonio__ is now known as Tonio_ [13:08] hi BLuesKaj [13:08] LINKSWORD2: lot of errors. like you don't have internet connection [13:08] hi schnelle_ [13:08] And yet, I'm on here... [13:08] Hey BluesKaj [13:08] LINKSWORD2: Could you pastebin your /etc/apt/sources.list ? [13:09] hey LINKSWORD2 [13:09] BluesKaj please help LINKSWORD2 [13:09] Haha. When the crap goes sideways, we all beg BluesKaj for help. lol [13:09] 1ok , I'll try schnelle_ , LINKSWORD2 what's up ? [13:10] i have to leave soon [13:10] ok schnelle_ np [13:10] BluesKaj: http://paste.ubuntu.com/844338 [13:11] This is subsequent to attempting to install kshutdown via Konsole "sudo apt-get install kshutdown" with error "E: Could not find package kshutdown" [13:11] LINKSWORD2: Before editing sources were there any such errors? [13:12] Unknown. I haven't used this system in about 3 months. [13:12] LINKSWORD2: does kubuntu 9.10 have kpackagekit? you can try to switch from us server to main server. It is in settings tab, then click on "configure sources" [13:13] LINKSWORD2, which kubuntu version are you on ? I see karmic repos in the sources list ..don't think that's supported any longer [13:13] and i think kubuntu 9.10 is not supported anymor [13:13] :) [13:13] !9.10 [13:13] Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala) was the eleventh release of Ubuntu. !End-Of-Life on April 29th 2011, see http://ubottu.com/y/karmic for details. [13:14] LINKSWORD2, yup , time to upgrade , if you want support [13:14] I'm able to upgrade as far as 10.10. Unfortunately, my graphics card throws a hissy-fit with anything newer, such as 11.04. === fille is now known as fille1 === fille1 is now known as fille12 [13:14] LINKSWORD2, which graphics card ? [13:15] I don't exactly know. [13:15] lspci -nn | grep VGA [13:15] I got it in a misc parts box in a computer store, and there was no label on the card or the anti-static bag it was in. [13:16] run the above command LINKSWORD2 [13:16] Return: 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: nVidia Corporation NV10DDR [GeForce 256 DDR] [10de:0101] (rev 10) [13:18] If I would be running anything newer than 10.10, I'd have to have an appropriate driver package written for compatibility.... [13:18] !10.04 [13:18] Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid Lynx) was the twelfth release of Ubuntu. Download http://releases.ubuntu.com/10.04/ - Release Info: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/1004 - Supported until April 2013 (Desktop), April 2015 (Server) [13:19] I'll set the system up to upgrade to 10.04. That'll have to do for now. [13:20] LINKSWORD2, that card is pretty old , close to 10yrs I think [13:20] LINKSWORD2: try 11.10 or 12.04 liveCD [13:20] there is now opensorce driver for that old card i think [13:20] schnelle_: Graphics card still throws a hissy-fit. Not a good idea. [13:20] you might be better off just using the onboard video gpu on the mobo [13:20] did you try to boot 11.10? [13:21] schnelle_: Yes. [13:21] BluesKaj: If I recall correctly, the onboard is dead. [13:21] pfffff [13:22] try papy linux :) [13:23] LINKSWORD2, bummer , i guess schnelle_ 's live cd suggestion might work , the new open source drivers are wider ranging in their support than ever [13:23] I'm familiar with, and prefer Ubuntu/Kubuntu [13:23] i am out of ideas... and time... have to learn now... see ya later [13:23] bye schnelle_ [13:24] BluesKaj: Would upgrading through the distro's from 10 to 11 via the repositories work? [13:25] you have to go thru each release , without skipping any ..very time consuming [13:25] I've got all the time in the world... [13:25] The question I'm asking though, is would that driver work? [13:26] unless you upgrade to 10.10 which is an LTS then you can upgrade to the next LTS directly ,12.04 which is in beta atm [13:26] oops 10.04 to 12.04 [13:26] 10.10 is not an lts [13:27] No, it's not. Even I remember that much. lol [13:27] yeah bazhang , my mistake [13:27] So... I could upgrade from 10.04 to 12.04 directly? [13:27] yep [13:27] yup [13:28] Would it be better to upgrade from 10.04 to 10.10, 11.04 & 11.10, then 12.04? [13:28] no [13:28] ? [13:29] 10.04 to 12.04 is better, fewer steps in between [13:29] BluesKaj: What command can I run to get the MOBO info? [13:29] sudo lshw [13:29] lshw [13:30] too much info , Id just go into the bios [13:31] http://paste.ubuntu.com/844369 [13:34] If I'm reading the first few lines correctly.... The system was manufactured in 03. [13:35] yeah , pretty old max memory 1G [13:35] P4 cpu [13:36] Early P4 series, if I recall correctly. [13:39] LINKSWORD2, for what it's worth , my '06 Compaq amd 64 bit single struggles with 12.04 in some ways and it has 2G Ram [13:39] single core [13:39] Jeez.. [13:41] it's really bad on W7 . constantly running the fan to keeps itself with temp range ...I finally dumped W7 because it was so noisy [13:41] I'll leave W7 to wife's pc [13:41] WS7 is supposed to be lightweight.... [13:42] Heh. I thought that us Linux nerds could never get married. lol [13:42] heh, well it's not with the new service pack [13:43] LINKSWORD2, I'm not particularly a nerd ...I also have other interests, but I'm retired so I have time to spend here on our long Canadian winters [13:44] Dude. We play with Linux. It's a nerd thing. :P [13:44] sez you :) [13:44] Fine. What did you do before retirement? [13:48] LINKSWORD2, join us in #kubuntu-offtopic , we discuss offtopic stuff there === orated_ is now known as orated [13:59] Is there any mistake in this sources.list - http://paste.ubuntu.com/844148/ ? [14:00] or just at line 52 , remove the # [14:00] orated, ^ [14:01] That's for canonical source, how is that required? [14:10] BluesKaj: I noticed that checking ticking Canonical Partners (Source Code) uncommented the # from related line 52 . But usually how is source code required? [14:13] well, when building a new version of an app , dpkg uses source code as well afaik , but you can comment it if you want , that's your choice [14:18] BluesKaj: Yes, commenting that causes errors like - http://imagebin.org/199 [14:19] r [14:19] sec [14:19] http://imagebin.org/199220 [14:20] orated, then there's a package requiring the src to upgrade [14:21] BluesKaj: Is there a way to find which package is depending on that? [14:22] orated, not sure [14:24] Hello BluesKaj [14:24] hey designbybeck [14:24] Ok. Secondly, do you know about bootchart? I get boot time of about 60s. Can you help me fix it using - http://imagebin.org/199031 http://imagebin.org/199035 [14:25] I'm getting ready for our Texas Open Source Project - TexOS and I'm trying to make the USB Live Boot drives [14:25] but in the Startup Disk Creator, when I go to Erase Disk, it acaully starts repeating the listing over and over again [14:25] and doesn't do anything [14:28] designbybeck: Yes, even I noticed that behavior in usb-creator-kde. Whenever it fails to erase it, I use partitionmanager/gparted to format the usb [14:28] but then every things else works after that orated? [14:29] designbybeck, I have no clue , my experience with USB OS images is nil ...my pcs are too old to boot from USB drives [14:29] I've got 11 or so of these to burn === noxis_ is now known as noxis [14:32] here is what it was doing orated http://www.pasteall.org/pic/26671 [14:32] i had just one Verbatium drive plugged in, and wheenn i pressed Erase Disk, it kept duplicating it over and over [14:32] Ah yes.. it worked after few attempts and its only dependent on the usb port you are using. I got only e-SATA working over USB3 slots here, depends on your system hardware [14:33] Yes, same thing. I remember [14:33] hmmm, i don't know what slot that is on my laptop, i'll try another one [14:34] If its about erasing, I would suggest you to format using partitionmanager/gparted instead of using Erase Disk option from usb creator [14:34] gotcha [14:38] BluesKaj: Any help on above bootcharts? :) [14:40] orated, looking [14:44] orated, and how long does bootup take ? [14:45] As it said 58.90 s [14:46] seems you loading a ntfs partition, and nfs file shares /exports , plus VM ware looks like it's looping a few times before it loads [14:46] I'm not very much concerned about boot time usually but lately, I noticed taking more than normal [14:47] a minute is along time [14:47] Ah, yes. I saw that. But I'm not sure about fixing it [14:47] I went to startup from system settings, but the services seemed right [14:47] I commented the nfs, ntfs mounting from fstab [14:47] me neither , i don't use Virtual OSs [14:49] ntfs and nfs should load without any delay so I would uncomment them , i think the virtual OS is giving you the problem [14:49] b ut that's as far as I can help [14:50] Yes, thanks. I'll try that and find about virtual OS part [14:52] Which particular vm service you noticed? [14:53] which ones do you use ? [14:53] No I meant to ask which service you found is related to vm. I use VMPlayer [14:55] ok do you have vmpalyer loading ar startup as a daemon ? [14:55] at startup [14:58] No, I don't see any in service manager [14:59] But what from bootchart made you say its related to virtual machine also? :) [14:59] orated, what about a startup script in autostart? [15:00] There is only one script there set for Pre-KDE startup which is also not related to vm [15:00] orated, , because it's only thing i could see out of the ordinary , so naturally i suspected that [15:01] Ah possibilities then. Ok, I'll try to figure it out if vm is causing it [15:04] orated, I tried VMware full install a few yrs agoand it really slowed things down , of course I was running XP in it , but I don't recall bootup as being particularly slow , only when i boot into VMware the pc slowed down to molasses in january [15:05] Hmmm the keystroke Alt+PrintScreen isn't supported by Qt [15:05] I'm trying to setup the custom screenshot for Shutter [15:05] Its only Ptrscr key to open Ksnapshot designbybeck [15:05] But i wanted to change it to use Shutter [15:05] so I can do Alt+Printscreeen to do a selection [15:06] yeah, my prtscn key no longer works here either [15:06] You can set a delay of few seconds before freeze [15:07] and then make a selection, if I got you right [15:07] have you ever used Shutter orated? [15:07] yes [15:07] the kde one is nice as well, but in shutter you can go to the editor [15:09] BluesKaj, http://imgur.com/ms6hZ [15:10] if you have problem with ptrscr [15:10] mabe is unmarked for you [15:10] or you can create one new there [15:13] i found a walk through for it: http://www.thepowerbase.com/2012/01/integrating-shutter-with-kde-4-7/ [15:13] i'm going to try this rout [15:13] route [15:14] designbybeck, its easy you can create a keyboard shortcut [15:14] designbybeck, have you shutter installed? [15:15] yes i have shutter installed [15:15] Ezim, thanks , it's fixed :) [15:15] you only need to change from ksnapshot to shutter here: http://imgur.com/gZjGy [15:16] BluesKaj, np. :) [15:16] BluesKaj, systemsettings :) kde/kubuntus best friend. :P [15:17] * BluesKaj wonders why the input prtscn was turned off by default [15:17] that is odd, MetaKey+ PrnScrn is supported by Qt but Alt_PrtScrn isn't [15:17] BluesKaj, it was not here. running kubuntu 12.04? [15:18] Ezim, it was turned off after an upgrade on 12.04 , dunno how or why [15:19] BluesKaj, file bug report. :) [15:19] hmmm [15:19] i looks like i have everything setup, but it isn't starting shutter and doing the correct command [15:20] Ezim, well I have to be absolutely sure first [15:21] designbybeck, try ksnapshot in the run command (alt+f2) [15:21] well yes that works BluesKaj [15:22] then no need for all those gtk libs that come with shutter [15:22] but i wanted it for the editor/effects [15:22] Ksnapshot is nice though [15:23] i'll just use shutter when needed [15:23] ok , gotcha designbybeck [15:23] shutter has a global settings menu so that is nice too [15:23] in the systray [15:24] lol, i got on the screenshot tangent when i was trying to show my usb burning problem [15:24] ...now i gotta get back to the usb drives [15:26] are you copying bootable OS iso images to usb sticks , designbybeck , or what method are you using ? [15:26] currect [15:26] using StartUp Disk Creator [15:27] and they don't boot when you test them ? [15:27] instead of trying to click Erase Disk, i' just slected the ISO and told it to make [15:27] so it looks like it is going now, I'll see what comes of it [15:27] it was doing this BluesKaj http://www.pasteall.org/pic/26671 [15:28] when i pressed Erase Disk, it started randomly duplicated the listing over and over and never did anything === orated_ is now known as orated [15:31] designbybeck, listing ? [15:32] designbybeck, I have to ask , is the drive formatted to fat32 ? [15:32] might have been [15:32] i just opened it from the factory [15:32] then it should accept the image [15:33] no need to erase disk if it's empty [15:33] designbybeck: Even for creating image its listing? [15:33] hmmmm [15:35] of course the creator should make the stick bootable ..I hope :P [15:36] yes It looks like that first stick is working [15:36] yes but it creates duplicate entry or lists sdb1 and then sdb again and again during erase disk and startup disk creation [15:36] about 10 more to go ;) [15:36] took about 5mins or so [15:37] i just skipped the ears disk and let it do its own thing [15:37] designbybeck, check that stick will boot the image [15:37] just did [15:38] ok , and ? [15:38] it booted [15:38] it is at the try/install screen [15:39] i clicked try, and it is spinnin'....seems to be taking longer than normal [15:39] I'm curious due to one of my bandn=mates new interst in Linux ... [15:39] there it goes [15:39] cool [15:39] great [15:39] these are older Dell desktops we'll be using for TexOS starting Sat. [15:40] and they are random specs and such [15:40] will they boot from a USB ? [15:40] yes [15:40] ok [15:40] they are about 5 years old [15:40] 3-5years old [15:40] but i do have one that is pretty old that doesn't seem to boot from USB, but it will not be used for this project [15:40] strange , this pc is only 4 yrs old , there's no uSB boot option the BIOS [15:41] in [15:41] what kinda PC? [15:41] HP amd 64 dual core [15:41] oh that is odd [15:42] well, it's pretty close to entry level , even back in 2007 [15:46] bbiab [15:52] odd , still have floppy group listed in the bios , but there's no floppy drive on this pc [15:52] hmmm [15:52] have you tried flashin'g/upgrading the bios? [15:53] designbybeck, no , I haven't [15:57] the bios was flashed/updated in Mar 2008 according to lshw , i bought this pc in nov 2007 ...this is very strange [15:57] and I don't recall ever flashing the bios on this pc ...ever [15:58] hmm [15:59] unless my memory is failing me [16:04] I promptly reformatted to ext2 and installed kubuntu 7.10 which was new then ...it ran beatuifully [16:14] * BluesKaj looks at plpbtnoemul.iso [16:41] seeing how I'm new to Kubuntu, thought i'd through this out there if you haven't seen it: http://blogs.kde.org/node/4533 [16:53] Hey guys, I have a question about using Canonical-trusted software in Kubuntu. [16:54] hi [16:54] I installed Frotz Z-machine via apt-get in the terminal, and I know it worked, because I can run it from the terminal [16:54] but I can't find it anywhere in the program menu [16:55] nor does the Muon package manager believe it to be installed [16:55] hi all [16:55] hello caius_ [16:55] i have a problem with the package manager [16:56] i have made an update of flash today in the morning and muon package manager crashed at 60% of the update [16:56] i'm new to Kubuntu caius_ not sure I have an answer for that [16:58] i turned off kubuntu and restarted and tried to uninstall flash plugin manually. since then i get a notificaion that i can not use the package manager because anotherone is already running [16:59] how can i turn of the packagemanager that is running in the background? === dimw1t is now known as a7145 [17:03] no problem designbybeck [17:03] hope to get some suggestions === AD is now known as Guest81460 [17:03] Well in normal Ubuntu I'd just use the Process Manager, find the process and kill [17:04] there are also terminal means to do this [17:04] with which I am unfamiliar [17:04] I'm also not sure how the Kubuntu process manager works [17:07] caius_: ctrl+esc will open the process manager in kde [17:07] there check if apt, dpkg or qaptworker is running [17:07] caius_, are you referring to the package notifier [17:07] no [17:07] the package manager === humannoise is now known as hakikiki [17:10] caius: in the terminal (Konsole) run: sudo configure --a [17:11] that would be sudo dpkg --configure -a [17:11] if that's what the problem is [17:11] you're right; sorry [17:12] i have checked all the programms that are now running on my machine [17:12] and there is none of the apt,dpkg or qaptworker running [17:15] Philip5, welcome :). [17:19] yofel: i tried that comandline you wrote. system says that the command is not found [17:19] wich one? [17:19] *which [17:20] sudo dpkg--configure--a [17:20] caius_: sudo dpkg --configure --a [17:20] try putting the space in there [17:20] i think... [17:20] * EvilResistance checks dpkg [17:21] yeah, that'd probably be it [17:21] nope, no results [17:21] caius_: remember there are spaces in there ;P [17:22] ah you got that :P [17:23] help me [17:23] I tried to set Access through a cantilever and the program hung up began to be knocked out very much many errors 35 i would like killed this procced [17:25] caius_: ok, so dpkg isn't broken, good [17:26] caius_: did you see any apt process in the process manager? [17:26] no apt process [17:26] and it still complains? === zafiro is now known as Guest98017 [17:28] it still complains [17:29] caius_: can you try this: [17:29] !aptlock [17:29] If an APT front-end crashed and your database is locked, try this in a !terminal: « sudo fuser -vki /var/lib/dpkg/lock;sudo dpkg --configure -a » [17:30] flashplugin installed [17:30] * yofel reads backlog [17:31] caius_: can you try: sudo apt-get install -f [17:32] i installed flash [17:33] caius_: I've read that [17:33] is it working for you caius_ what was the solution you ended up going with? [17:33] one moment please [17:36] i will restart and give feedback [17:42] caius_: any improvement? [17:42] it seems that flash is still not working [17:43] neither on firefox,opera,and chrome [17:43] caius_: was it actually installed? [17:43] might not be the case if it crashed midway [17:43] yes [17:43] it was installed [17:44] i am installing it now once again [17:45] i installed the flash plugin 10 [17:45] and adobe flash [17:46] and its still not working [17:46] caius_, try flashaid. [17:46] caius_, which kubuntu version ? [17:46] 11.10 [17:47] caius_: can you tell me what this tells you: ls -la /etc/alternatives/mozilla-flashplugin [17:47] caesar_, https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/flash-aid/ [17:48] Ezim: i don't use FF [17:48] caesar_, okey. chrome should come with flash from start. [17:48] yofel : should i type it in ff? [17:49] Ezim: try cai+tab [17:49] caius_: no, in konsole [17:50] yofel this is what i get: WS830EA-ABD:~$ ls -la /etc/alternatives/mozilla-flashplugin [17:50] lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 32 2012-02-18 10:30 /etc/alternatives/mozilla-flashplugin -> /usr/lib/gnash/libgnashplugin.so [17:50] caius_, libflashplayer.so should be listed in /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins ..the best method is to download flash from adobe , extract the file , copy the libflashplayer.so to the path i mentioned [17:50] caius_: ouch, uninstall gnash [17:50] that's a rather non-working type of flash plugin :( [17:51] BluesKaj: installing from partner is easier, and gives you updates [17:51] his problem is that he has gnash installed though [17:51] yofel: i have uninstalled gnash [17:52] caius_: ok, try again [17:52] (using flash in firefox) [17:52] I had klash installed which uses gnash , and had no problems , the problem is the flashplugin or wrapper if he's using 64 bit [17:52] i use 64 bit [17:52] * yofel never got gnash to work in a sane way [17:53] yofel: its not working [17:53] caius_: can you tell me what the ls command tells you now? [17:54] yofel: ls -la /etc/alternatives/mozilla-flashplugin [17:54] lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 32 2012-02-18 10:30 /etc/alternatives/mozilla-flashplugin -> /usr/lib/gnash/libgnashplugin.so [17:54] caius_: run: sudo apt-get remove browser-plugin-gnash [17:54] and try again === Guest81460 is now known as AD [17:54] then caius_ , then try the method I posted above , and yofel that method was recommended by the ppl at ubuntu+1 when they were having flash pligin problems [17:55] well, back then we had no packaged flash for 64bit [17:56] I still don't trust the packaged method ...I don't get any audio on flash sites with the packaged method [17:57] hm, works for me [17:57] yofel,blueskaj: i tried again , and i get the notification the latest flash version is requiered to view videos [17:57] but yeah, sound in flash is tricky [17:57] could be my soundcard probs with alsa too [17:58] caius_: now install 'adobe-flashplugin' if it's there [17:58] anyone can help me installing sun-java6 on ubuntu? [17:58]