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meetingologyMeeting started Thu Feb 16 14:58:35 2012 UTC.  The chair is NCommander. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.14:58
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired14:58
ogra_you are early today14:58
NCommander[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2012/2012021614:59
NCommander#topic ActionItem Review15:00
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ActionItem Review
NCommander#topic rsalveti to follow with riku to see if chromium will get fixed15:00
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: rsalveti to follow with riku to see if chromium will get fixed
ogra_looks like that was done15:00
infinityRiku and micahg were discussing chromium earlier.15:00
infinitySeems like it's nearly there.15:00
ogra_we had an extensive discussion this morning15:00
ogra_and while we are at fixing, 1000 hugs to janimo` for fixing libO in just a few days of work :)15:01
janimo`ogasawara, well it was a few days work preceded by a few days of staring at the code dumbfounded15:01
NCommanderyay janimo`15:02
* ogra_ hugs ogasawara ...15:02
infinityogra_: You've been upgraded to ogasawara!15:02
ogra_she always steals my pings !15:02
janimo`ogra_, start lurking the kernel channel and steal some back15:02
NCommanderanyway, no rsajdok so moving on15:02
ogra_janimo`, i'm resident there, she steals them there too15:03
NCommander#topic Standing Items15:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Standing Items
NCommander#topic http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-arm.html15:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/ubuntu-arm.html
* ogra_ guesses we need to postpone everything thats FF cfritical today 15:03
GrueMasterLooks like the TODO items have taken a dip.15:03
infinityI don't think any of my items will be blocked by FF.  Sadly.15:04
* ogra_ is still planning to fix the ubuntu-core DL page if i ever find out how the heck infinity manages to make make-web-indiciec being ignored15:04
NCommanderogra_: deep voodoo15:04
ogra_maple voodo :)15:05
infinityWe can talk later.15:05
infinityI didn't realise you were having issues.15:05
NCommander[topic] ARM Server Status (NCommander)15:05
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Server Status (NCommander)
NCommanderlinux-armadaxp exists15:05
ogra_yeah, not today though15:05
infinityIt even installs.15:06
ogra_.... i didnt shout yet since i want to find out myself first :)15:06
NCommanderworking on the d-i portion, and working with cooloney to merge in the lastest bits from Marvell15:06
ogra_ready today ?15:06
NCommanderWe didn't quite make feature freeze withthe actual d-i bit but the rest should be there15:07
NCommanderexcept images tonight/tomrrow15:08
ogra_ready tomorrow ? (else i need to notify about the FF exception in tomorrows release meeting)15:08
NCommanderogra_: probably tonight if everything goes as planned.If not,tomorrow15:08
NCommanderthis is for netboot. I do plan to try to build alternates but I don't know ifthey'll work right offthebat15:09
ogra_if not tomorrow, please let me know15:09
NCommanderwill do15:09
NCommander[topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)15:09
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel Status (cooloney, ppisati)
ppisatinew kernel release yesterday (1406.8)15:09
ppisatiwith audio fixes15:10
ppisatinow i'm working on the "set mac address" from the cmdline15:10
ppisatiit's broken since natty15:10
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* janimo` is currently building a new ac100 3.0.19 kernel and if all's well it is going to be uploaded soon. 15:10
ogra_janimo`, i think -exp was merged yesterday into the stable branch btw15:10
GrueMasterjanimo`: Let me know when it gets in.15:11
janimo`ogra_, yes, and two more sound related commits since yesterday15:11
janimo`GrueMaster, sure15:11
GrueMasterI want to see if it fixes the start-r board.15:11
janimo`GrueMaster, start-r ?15:11
infinityWrong kernel..15:11
janimo`I may need extra config options if that is some USB dongle15:11
GrueMasterNew rev.15:11
janimo`GrueMaster, ac10015:12
* GrueMaster sips more coffee.15:12
ogra_NCommander, move ?15:13
NCommander[topic[ ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)15:13
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: [ ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
NCommanderbah ninjaed15:13
* NCommander hugs janimo` for libo15:13
* janimo` hugs NCommander 15:14
janimo`for libo15:14
ogra_humm ... upstart15:14
NCommanderand funeral services will be held for his sanity next thursday at 15:00 UTC.15:14
janimo`I am debugging upstart now15:14
ogra_ah, cool15:14
infinityThe upstart failure isn't arm-specific.15:14
janimo`as in just fired up gdb. Not sure why it built on armel15:14
infinityIt takes several builds to beat the race on x86 buildds.15:14
NCommanderinfinity: thatbug is STILL around?15:14
infinityWe've just been throwing it back until it sticks. :/15:15
NCommanderI remember keybuk working on that race when he was still here15:15
janimo`infinity, so it is a bug but very subtle. throw it back I guess then :)15:15
infinityjanimo`: That said, arm-specific or not, the upstart devs might appreciate someone finding the problem.15:15
ogra_infinity, well, let the awesome janimo` look at it :)15:15
infinityjanimo`: We can't get it to stick reliably on arm, that's the problem. :P15:15
janimo`if we used systemd we could just blame Lennart. Now we have to do actual debugging, grumble15:15
ogra_now thats a reason for switching15:16
ogra_"because we can whine about lennart"15:16
NCommandersomehow, I don't think it would make ARM bugs vanish15:16
GrueMasterI think slangasek was looking at this yesterday as well.  Saw a post of him mucking with cross-compiling in qemu.15:16
ogra_NCommander, no, but we could just just blame him for them ;)15:17
janimo`we should persuade Lennart to take over upstream upstart maintainership, then we can blame him without switching15:17
NCommanderogra_: but we can blame Scott for upstart so whats the difference :-P15:17
ogra_janimo`, awesome idea !15:18
infinityvorlon's upload was meant to fix the test that still fails so, yeah, catching up with him might be good.15:18
ogra_NCommander, we like scott15:18
NCommander[action] janimo` to get Lennart to maintain upstart15:18
meetingologyACTION: janimo` to get Lennart to maintain upstart15:18
NCommanderI figured you got libo fixed, that shouldn't be hard15:18
janimo`hmm, you have apoint15:18
NCommander[topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)15:19
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
ogra_broken today15:19
NCommanderTo soon be existing for arm server15:19
ogra_thanks to compiz ftbfs15:19
ogra_(across the board)15:19
=== greg_g is now known as greg-g
janimo`that compiz ftbfs seems like a QT issue15:19
ogra_oh, and an announcement (seems to fit here)15:19
janimo`the kde backend is the one failing15:19
ogra_canonical will from today on support armhf15:19
ogra_and turn armel into community supported15:20
NCommanderso GrueMaster will still test it!15:20
infinityI'm dropping armel+mx5 and armel+omap4 images today.15:20
ogra_i guess infinity can tell us which images we still build for armel15:20
GrueMasterAre we dropping image builds for armel?15:20
ogra_GrueMaster, not all15:20
infinityWe'll still build armel+omap and armel+ac100, and drop ac100 when nvidia gives us armhf drivers.15:20
janimo`that means there are slots freed for live image testbuilds sometime soonish ?15:20
infinityUltimately, we should just be building armel+omap for smoketesting.15:20
infinityjanimo`: Not really.15:21
infinityjanimo`: It means we don't have to wait 16 hours for all the images to build.15:21
janimo`infinity, you keep shattering my dreams15:21
ogra_janimo`, there are tons of slots once infinity is done with the move to LP buildds for image builds15:21
NCommanderjanimo`: he's good at that15:21
ogra_but that will still take a bit15:21
janimo`he has no sleep and dreams, so messes with others'15:21
infinityYes, yes, I'm a bad man.15:22
infinityMoving on.15:22
NCommander[topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)15:22
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh)
GrueMasterI wrote a few scripts to do server load testing.  One for the lamp stack, one for rabbitmq.15:22
GrueMasterAlso working on getting power meter data acquisition going.  Works on a panda so far.15:23
ogra_do you have any intel based comparison data ?15:24
GrueMasterTested daily images earlier this week, no sudden deaths.  Looking solid.15:24
ogra_(i.e. from cking)15:24
GrueMasterUnfortunately, it is just a digital amp meter.  Very hard to get power loads across multiple voltages.15:24
ogra_ah, k15:24
GrueMasterhe is testing with a laptop.15:24
GrueMasterAnd completely different loads.15:25
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NCommanderanything else?15:25
NCommander[topic] Linaro Updates (rsalveti)15:26
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro Updates (rsalveti)
GrueMasterI put my arm server test system on a kill-a-watt device, but it barely registers.15:26
mahmohI ran some kernel burn in yesterday and pushed a PTS script to the workload branch - getting to WI today15:26
ogra_oh. lots else :)15:26
NCommanderstill no rsajdok15:26
NCommanderstill no rsalveti15:27
NCommander[topic] AOB15:27
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
ogra_well, lets skip this then15:27
Riddelljanimo`: it seems gcc has got stricter again and some new errors are turning up, that compiz issue is one15:27
ogra_though i would have loved to hear where compiz stands :(15:27
GrueMasterjanimo`: I'd like to get info on how you tested erlang & rabbitmq last cycle. after the meeting15:27
Riddelljanimo`: and so is digikam and something else15:27
janimo`GrueMaster, ok15:27
janimo`Riddell, ah, so a bug for Linaro gcc folks I guess?15:27
ogra_or for doko .)15:27
Riddelljanimo`: it's probably not hard to work out the way to keep the compiler happy but it's hard for me with no arm hardware15:27
Riddelljanimo`: or just drop the kde compiz bits as a workaround15:28
Riddelljanimo`: only if they enjoy fixing c++ cast problems :)15:28
janimo`Riddell, ok, we'll probably do that as a workaround since the alternative is fixing and uploading Qt15:28
GrueMasterRiddell: I thought you had a panda?15:28
janimo`which takes longer15:28
Riddelljanimo`: compiz is a "bug" in kdelibs not qt15:28
janimo`Riddell, it's part of their job to fix C++ cast problems :)15:28
RiddellGrueMaster: I do, yet to find time/knowledge to set it up15:28
infinityjanimo`: Fixing the errors seems saner than disabling features.15:29
* ogra_ agrees that compiz is a bug .... not only in kdelibs15:29
janimo`infinity, sure unless fixing it means no images for weeks?15:29
GrueMasterRiddell: Get with me offline, I can get you up and running in minutes.15:29
ogra_yes, getting a panda up is a matter of a few minutes nowadays15:29
RiddellGrueMaster: I will do next time I find some minutes15:29
ogra_(plus download time)15:30
NCommanderanything else or can I close?15:32
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Feb 16 15:33:03 2012 UTC.15:33
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-16-14.58.moin.txt15:33
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-16-14.58.html15:33
czajkowskiAlanBell: aloha17:00
meetingologyMeeting started Thu Feb 16 17:02:26 2012 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.17:02
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired17:02
czajkowski#link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda17:03
czajkowskiis todays agenda17:03
* Pici waves17:03
czajkowskiwho's here from the CC ?17:03
* dholbach is17:03
czajkowskiok shall we start with the IRCC catch up ?17:04
czajkowski#topic IRCC Catch up17:04
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: IRCC Catch up
czajkowskialoha and welcome to the IRCC Catch up, thanks for coming along17:04
czajkowskiwho's here from the IRCC17:04
dholbachhey - how are you all doing?17:04
AlanBellnot sure the time worked out for funkyHat and topyli17:05
AlanBellwe are doing great :)17:05
czajkowskiAlanBell: Pici thanks for coming along17:05
czajkowskiit's pretty informal, just care to tell us what ye've been doing, anything we should know about, and what we can do to help17:05
AlanBellwe have had three productive team meetings so far17:05
PiciWe're organizing a bot-jam to get some requested features implemented in ubottu17:06
AlanBelland made progress on the floodbot code which is now in a launchpad private repository17:06
czajkowskithats good to hear17:06
AlanBellthe process of welcoming #lubuntu into the list of core channels is well underway with operator training starting soon17:06
pleia2I'm glad to see the training system in place for the IRC team, some teams struggle with proper training once folks are appointed17:08
dholbachwhat do you feel takes up the most time of the IRC Council right now?17:08
AlanBellinteresting question :)17:09
dholbachis it more about starting discussion and keeping the discussions going or is it things like op/member approval and other governance process bits?17:09
dholbach(I don't have a doubt you all are busy people. :-))17:10
PiciHmm.. Things are relatively quiet right now, but channel/operator organization and appeals tend to be the biggest timesinks.17:10
dholbachis channel/operator organisation and appeals something which comes up in bursts or is it always busy like that?17:11
PiciIt comes in bursts.  Also just keeping an eye on how operators deal with issues, before they become something that might warrant a user's appeal.17:12
sabdflhello all, sorry for my tardiness17:12
czajkowskiPici: AlanBell and how is the new council working out? Is there any way we the CC can help ?17:12
popeysabdfl: http://paste.ubuntu.com/844650/ for catching up17:12
sabdflthanks popey17:13
AlanBellsorry, got interrupted for a sec17:13
PiciI think we're doing fine right now.  I know I've poked some CCers in our channel in the past for advice/questions, but nothing serious at this time.17:13
czajkowskiPici: great stuff. and how goes the plan for the IRCC for the coming months?17:14
AlanBellwe have a bit of a list of task to organise around bots17:14
czajkowskiso is the main focus the sorting out of bots for the time being then ops?17:14
sabdflon the people front, what's the escalation process? i.e. how quickly does stuff land on the IRCC's desk when there's a dispute?17:15
czajkowskiAlanBell: Pici ?17:17
PiciBeyond speaking to the operator who took action, the current appeals process asks a user to first drop into #ubuntu-ops if they have an issue.  If they still think that they have been treated unfairly, or do not agree with an operator, they are given information on how to contact the IRCC directly.17:17
PiciThere has been some discussion on using the bot to automatically provide that link to people who have been removed/banned/muted in our channels, but for now we provide that manually.17:18
PiciUnfortunately, we can't stop people from going over our heads at the outset of a ban, some people think that their best course of action is to email sabdfl directly.  As far as I see from emails forwarded back our way, this doesn't happen that often though.17:21
sabdfli haven't had one of those for ages17:21
czajkowskiPici: the same happens to the LC and they mail jono people dont always follow the process17:21
sabdflwhich is, i think, a good sign17:21
sabdflthat people recognise the delegation of responsibility17:22
sabdflcan we tell which ops are around, and have some sort of random raw for a quick "review team" which cannot be gamed?17:22
sabdfli.e. cannot have an op do something knowing her friends will be on the review team?17:23
sabdflor does this just happen in #ubuntu-ops now, informally?17:23
AlanBellresolution of issues is done in #ubuntu-ops which is publicly logged and open for everyone to review17:24
AlanBellit isn't unheard of for people to want to discuss their ban with a different operator to the one that banned them, which is fine17:25
PiciBy way of our bots, we also track and store all bans made in our channels in a searchable web app, so we can be sure what op banned and which removed a given ban.17:26
AlanBellescallated issues come to the IRCC, we have had only one this year (which was directed to sabdfl and arrived at us via Claire)17:26
AlanBellare there any particular things the CC would like us to focus on?17:27
pleia2is there anyone here from the broader IRC team who has any comments?17:28
pangolinJust got here, not sure what the topic is though17:29
AlanBellit is our IRCC checkup with the CC17:30
oCeanI'd like to say that I really like how the new IRCC is taking up responsibilities, and putting a real effort in getting things done. Things that have been on hold way too long17:30
* AlanBell notes the nice bot set the topic17:30
pangolinah, from a quick scroll back I see I am sorta the topic17:30
pleia2thanks oCean :)17:30
czajkowskioCean: good to hear17:30
dholbachDo many IRC community members join the meetings? Are there many agenda items being added? Is there much discussion?17:30
Myrttiwell, at least I can say that christel's evil plan to assimilate all (present and retired) Ubuntu IRC ops seems to be going on well...17:31
AlanBellthere is lots of discussion dholbach, and lots of ops in the meeting17:31
dholbachMyrtti, can you elaborate?17:31
* Myrtti points at her cloak17:31
AlanBelldholbach: I have been attempting to keep the meetings running to time but there is no shortage of discussion points17:32
AlanBellnice cloak Myrtti, careful it doesn't drag on the floor and get dirty17:32
dholbachMyrtti, aha! :)17:32
dholbachI personally am happy to see that training is happening and many more people are actively involved in discussing and making decisions and also that you are collectively working on the bots now.17:32
czajkowskius there anything else people would like to add ?17:34
AlanBellone thing I have been pondering is to do a training course every release cycle, so we have a regular intake of a batch of new operators17:34
dholbachAlanBell, you could start at Ubuntu Open Week :)17:34
sabdfli have a sense of organisation now that hasn't existed in some time in the IRC world, which is really great to see17:34
czajkowskisabdfl: +117:34
AlanBelldholbach: well we are starting with the #lubuntu intake17:34
czajkowskiit's really impressive to see folks, keep up the great work17:34
dholbachyeah :)17:34
oCeansabdfl: yes, and that pays off too: it's easier for others to get more and more involved17:35
AlanBellanother thing we will be doing in 3 months or so is filling the empty 5th seat on the IRCC17:35
MyrttiI'm writing the basic ops guide at the moment, it has an extension to how to use the most awesome IRC client in the planet, we're setting a date when we can start having the classroom sessions for our new batch of core ops17:35
Myrtti(before you ask, irssi)17:35
* AlanBell looks forward to learning of this irssi stuff, sounds interesting17:37
pleia2thanks for coming :)17:39
sabdflthis is all super. should we wrap and move on?17:39
dholbachso thanks everyone in the IRC community for keeping things rolling nicely17:39
sabdflwell done, IRCC, and thanks for the update17:39
AlanBellthanks o/17:39
czajkowskiok so moving on17:39
czajkowski#topic PPA and CoC17:39
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: PPA and CoC
czajkowski#link https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg08934.html17:39
czajkowskithis was brought by lifeless on the dev mailing list17:39
sabdfli would prefer to:17:40
czajkowskiat present the CoC doesn;t covr malware uploads, and there isn;t anything in there to cover PPas17:40
sabdfl * make it possible to sign the CoC with a click-through17:40
popeyrelated to this is bug 92672017:40
ubottuLaunchpad bug 926720 in Launchpad itself "Users don't know a 'good' PPA from a 'bad' PPA" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92672017:40
czajkowskithe questio bis is it useful to sign the CoC before uploading a PPA17:40
sabdfl * enfore it in the member-of-a-team case too17:40
sabdflyes it is17:40
sabdfland i think the CoC does cover malware17:40
dholbachsabdfl, +117:41
sabdflin the "be excellent to each other" is not "yay malware!" sense :)17:41
czajkowskiwell it's not explicit but yes I do get your point17:41
ScottKAlso isn't PPA a Launchpad issue, not an Ubuntu issue?17:41
Myrttiwell, this PPA bug started actually on IRC, we're constantly having people in #ubuntu helping others by telling them to use a PPA17:42
czajkowskinot such a clean divide I think17:42
ScottKIIRC the PPA ToS are clear on it.17:42
dholbacharguably packages in PPAs are built for Ubuntu, for Ubuntu users17:43
czajkowskidholbach: indeed17:43
ScottKUbuntu CoC can't apply to all Launchpad users.  It's much bigger than Ubuntu.17:43
dholbachso I can see a pretty solid connection between PPAs and the CoC17:43
ScottKIt's been my understanding since PPAs were created that PPAs are built "on" Ubuntu.  They aren't part of the distro.17:44
sabdflScottK, this is basically a ToS that we set for folk using a service Canonical made for Ubuntu developers17:45
ScottKThey aren't unrelated, but tons of stuff to which the CoC doesn't apply are closely related.17:45
sabdfli.e. we provide buildd's and archive space free, and wanted a low bar for agreement on good behaviour17:45
ScottKPPAs are not a service for Ubuntu developers.  They are a service for any Launchpad user.17:45
sabdflCoC is a part of that17:45
sabdflthe Ubuntu CoC is not just for members. It's a code of conduct that we want to be as widely used as possible, surely?17:46
ScottKRight, but IIRC there's a specific ToS for PPA use that already covers this case.17:46
ScottKI think if I'm an upstream who wants to make a PPA to provide development snapshots and updates to Ubuntu users via the PPA system, having to take on Ubuntu's social values might seem like a lot.17:47
sabdflwould we not want to encourage our broader community to reference the CoC?17:47
sabdflfor example, for comments on OMGU?17:47
ScottKI think that's up to the people that run OMGU.17:47
sabdflwell, you can do those things on your own hardware without having to agree it :)17:47
sabdflyes, it is, but why would we object?17:48
dholbachsurely, I didn't mean to get into a discussion about PPAs being part of Ubuntu - but I think it's reasonable for an uploader to agree on the CoC as part of offering Ubuntu packages, for Ubuntu users, of their software - to me it feels like the CoC strongly applies, and it's not just a ToS-we-already-had-around17:48
ScottKWe wouldn't.17:48
ScottKI agree we want to encourage it.17:48
sabdflright. so why object to having it be a requirement for PPA uploading?17:48
czajkowskisabdfl: so coming back to the mail from lifeless to the dev list, do you think the reply there is that yes we should be enforcing the signing of the CoC for PPA use?17:48
sabdflyes, i do :)17:48
ScottKEncouraging and requiring aren't the same things.17:48
bkerensasabdfl: I know that Joey Sneddon does enforce the CoC to some degree as I have pointed out issues in comments before and they have quickly addressed them but I can pass it along17:49
czajkowskiso should we reply to lifeless mail suggesting this and the link to here or do we need to go further17:49
ScottKI think it's a mistake to enforce the project's social values (as opposed to encouraging) on external parties, but I don't get a vote, so ...17:49
czajkowskiok, any other comments before we move on17:52
czajkowskiwe've limited time and one more topic17:52
czajkowski#topic Launchpad Polls17:52
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Launchpad Polls
czajkowski#link https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-council-teams/msg00023.html17:53
sabdflScottK, this is not Ubuntu enforcing it on a third party17:53
czajkowskiops sorry sabdfl17:53
sabdflthis is a third party (well, two-and-a-halfth party :) choosing it17:53
sabdfljust the same as OMGU might17:53
czajkowskiso a discussion has come about regarding the life of polls on lp, at present we all know they don't work as well as we would hope, but they are at present a cost to LP with regards to maintenance and it's a feature they are looking to help people move away from17:54
czajkowskior would encourage people to submit patches to help maintain them17:54
czajkowskibut all features are a cost even if they are not being used.17:55
pleia2the LP folks haven't responded to my email explaining the reason we need them17:55
pleia2I don't really know where we can go from here without a response17:55
czajkowskipleia2: nods I know some teams use them, but I think from discussions I've read they something the lp team would like to remove as it's a cost to them.17:56
dholbachis there a way how we could use CIVS polls instead with a "none of the above" vote?17:56
czajkowskibut I'll poke lp to reply to you17:56
pleia2dholbach: ask dholbach for his magic scraping of email address script17:57
czajkowskidholbach: what is the reson we just dont use CIVS at present ?17:57
pleia2a lot of people don't have public addresses17:57
dholbachI think we just need to agree on a way to do confirmation polls17:57
pleia2(particularly on teams like ubuntu-women, where a lot of our members keep their addresses private)17:58
pleia2I'll pastebin the email I sent, sec17:58
popeyThe whole voting system in launchpad seems very cumbersome and prone to error on the part of the user.17:59
dholbachpopey, yes17:59
popeyI've seen numerous polls screwed up as a result17:59
popeyrestarted, abandoned, etc17:59
dholbachperhaps we need an agreement that the LP team can hand out email addresses of the team to core governance boards17:59
dholbach... for purposes such as voting18:00
dholbachI mean, if you know how to work the LP API you can get a lot of email addresses already anyway - but having that agreement would make things a lot cleaner and easier18:00
popeyI can see many people protesting or opting out of that18:00
popeyhard to do after the effect18:01
popeyI mean, people who have signed up to LP for ~years may protest at this change in policy. people get very funny about their email protection18:01
czajkowskiyou could also argue if you want to vote you'll make your email available of course.18:01
dholbachat the last CC election (all ubuntu members were mailed) we had somebody complain and Mark responded to that - there's just not any other way18:01
pleia2yeah, I included a note about that in my paste above18:02
czajkowskiPerhaps to move forward I'll poke LP folks  to reply to pleia2 email18:03
pleia2thanks czajkowski18:03
czajkowskiand also perhaps the CC should be looking at alternatives so we have a plan18:03
GwaihirScott was talking about an open source alternative, but I think it was only for CIVS, with maybe U-SSO, we might ask him18:04
pleia2we could do something like set up CIVS for everyone with public addresses and use "contact this team" to get an email to everyone saying "if you didn't get a ballot because your address is hidden, let us know"18:04
czajkowskiok any other comments18:04
dholbachno, I'm all set - we obviously need to keep this discussion going18:05
pleia2the conversation is currently on ubuntu-council-teams18:05
czajkowskiperhaps we can take  it there the link is in the agenda18:05
czajkowskiI need to dash here18:05
czajkowski#link https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-council-teams/msg00023.html18:06
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Feb 16 18:06:26 2012 UTC.18:06
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-16-17.02.moin.txt18:06
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-16-17.02.html18:06
czajkowskithanks folks for coming18:06
dholbachthanks everyone18:06
Gwaihirthank all!18:06
=== chrisccoulson_ is now known as chrisccoulson
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=== bladernr_ is now known as bladernr_afk

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