mhall119wendar: are there any extras packages for Precise yet?00:32
mhall119"Independent" isn't showing in my USC00:32
ajmitchthere aren't00:32
mhall119so maybe mine will be first? cool00:32
ajmitchthis did start off as the 'post-release apps' process00:33
ajmitchmhall119: are you trying to submit apps for precise now?00:34
mhall119ajmitch: yeah00:35
ajmitchstgraber would know more than I would, but I don't know if that is open for uploads to be copied to it now or not00:36
ajmitchwhile there's a precise Sources.gz file on extras.ubuntu.com, there are a few things that happen behind the scenes00:37
wendarmhall119: we won't be accepting apps for precise until after the precise release00:50
wendarmhall119: but we can get it into Oneiric now, and then add to Precise as soon as it's launched00:51
wendarmhal119: or, does it depend on features of Precise?00:51
ajmitchbit hard to do that when the lense API is different00:51
wendar(I haven't tried compiling it yet)00:51
ajmitchI think that it'd make sense to accept apps for precise after feature freeze00:51
wendarajmitch: current policy is only the "current release" of Ubuntu00:52
ajmitchlike backports is meant to be opening up at FF, not sure if that's been done or not00:52
wendarI do know backports is opening at FF00:52
wendaryeah, I don't know if they've done it yet00:52
wendarbut, if it's targeting Precise, why not just put it in using the standard process?00:52
wendarthat avoids all the /opt stuff00:53
ajmitchwendar: right, at FF the platform should be viable for building & releasing apps on, but there could be changes00:53
ajmitchI'd certainly prefer it to just go in via the standard process00:53
wendarajmitch: as in, the non-ARB process?00:54
mhall119wendar: unfortunately the version of Singlet my lens depends on is only in Precise00:54
ajmitchwendar: right, the non-ARB process or even into backports if it's open00:55
mhall119wendar: Can I propose my Singlet package (modified to run on Oneiric) to the ARB, and then submit the lens for Oneiric too?00:55
wendarajmitch: backports only accepts packages once they've been approved for some release of Ubuntu, generally the current development release00:55
wendarmhall119: Extras doesn't accept libraries, only "leaf" applications00:56
ajmitchwendar: not necessarily true with the current proposal, which is meant to acecpt new packages which can then be copied into the next release as it opens00:56
mhall119wendar: yeah, i know00:56
ajmitchthe intention behind backports opening early is to have a way to upload new packages all through the 6-month cycle00:57
wendarmhall119: I'd say Singlet could be backported, but Extras can't automatically enable a backport, so that's problematic too00:57
wendarmhall119: since FF is upon us, I think the best option is getting it ready to go for Precise Extras00:57
mhall119I'm okay with not getting this into Oneiric, I just want to get something through the ARB process, preferabbly before Precise is released, so I know how to help other devs00:57
ajmitchit might be a trial app to see if it can be put into precise extras pre-release00:58
wendarmhal119: I'd say it's not really a huge deal if we publish it a few weeks before the actual Precise launch date00:58
wendar(for testing)00:58
mhall119wendar: there are a *lot* of lenses and scopes waiting to be packaged and send to the ARB, so unity-community-lens is going to be both a trial run and it's packaging files will serve as a template for others00:58
wendarbut, we may have to have some policy conversations around that00:59
mhall119wendar: that's okay00:59
wendarlike, in general, unlike backports, Extras shouldn't be on a "open as soon as FF hits" policy00:59
mhall119better now, while we still have some time00:59
wendarand, if all the lenses depend on Precise features, it may be that we get them all lined up in the staging PPA01:00
wendarand, just ready to launch as soon as Precise hits01:00
mhall119wendar: they don't all, currently, most will need to be upgraded to support Precise01:00
wendar(or, soon before Precise hits)01:00
wendarmhall119: okay, those are actually easier01:00
* ajmitch still needs to hack up his lens for precise :)01:00
wendarmhall119: we can launch them for Oneiric, and then start the upgrade for Precise01:00
mhall119well, I can't guarantee that they're ready for Oneiric either :)01:01
mhall119will packages in extras automatically be upgraded to Precise?01:01
mhall119I thought devs had to resubmit01:01
wendarmhall119: the general idea is to give developers notice of each upcoming so they can transition01:01
ajmitchI was going to update unity-lens-launchpad & push it through to test uploading for precise01:01
ajmitchsomething for the weekend01:01
wendarmhall119: aye, no automatic transition, just an opportunity for the dev to prepare to resubmit01:01
mhall119wendar: ajmitch: do you think we should have some kind of naming convention for lenses and scopes?01:02
wendarmhall119: I was wondering about that01:02
ajmitchmhall119: yes, I'd follow what's in the main archive01:02
mhall119I have unity-<project>-lens, ajmitch has unity-lens-<project>01:02
wendarmhall119: I noticed most are unity-lens-<project>01:02
ajmitchwhere they were originally unity-place-X, now unity-lens-X01:02
wendarmhall119: yeah, one of the comments in my notes is "should this be named unity-lens-community?"01:03
mhall119ok, I should probably change mine then01:03
wendarI've seen "unity-scope-*" too01:03
ajmitchwe renamed the askubuntu lens to match the others01:03
mhall119yeah, that makes more sense that way01:03
* ajmitch should probably remember to apply for UDS sponsorship before next week as well :)01:04
wendarmhall119: if you want to do that renaming, I can hold off on my branch01:04
wendarmhall119: actually, I'll just send you my current changelog, that pretty much says everything01:05
mhall119ajmitch: yeah, you should do that ;)01:05
mhall119wendar: thanks01:05
wendarand, you can look at unity-lens-sshsearch for the details01:05
ajmitchwe should hopefully get some resolution on whether scopes can depend on lenses at the next TB meeting01:06
mhall119ajmitch: is it on their agenda yet?01:06
ajmitchif you haven't added it, you should01:06
ajmitchit says that a TB person should, so stgraber? :)01:06
ajmitchafaik people add items themselves & then turn up at the meeting01:07
stgraberjust add it yourself, unless you want me to introduce the topic at the meeting but I doubt it's in mhall119 or jono's best interest of having me present it ;)01:08
mhall119stgraber: gah, I just sent an email to the TB about it01:09
mhall119oh well, I'll just look impatient01:10
ajmitchthey'll forgive you, I'm sure01:10
* mhall119 is going to owe stgraber some edubuntu contributions for this01:12
ajmitchbribery now? :)01:12
mhall119what do you mean 'now'?01:12
mhall119wendar: I don't think there's any standard or convention for dbus names/paths on lenses or scopes, but I'll ask01:16
mhall119for the /opt/ path, should it use /opt/extras.ubuntu.com/<project_name>-<version>/ ?01:20
mhall119is the version number in there necessary?01:20
wendarmhall119: that's the standard approved by the TB01:21
wendarbut, we haven't always followed it strictly01:21
mhall119are we allowed to submit new versions for the same release?01:21
wendar(none of the other lenses do)01:21
* ajmitch didn't follow that for tagplayer01:21
ajmitchsince you shouldn't be able to have multiple versions installed at once, it shouldn't matter01:22
wendarmhall119: yes, it still runs through an ARB review, but it's usually a quicker review since we only need to look at the diff01:22
wendarajmitch: I'm not particularly attached to the version in the path01:23
mhall119wendar: on the .service file rename you did, is that an ARB requirement?01:23
wendarajmitch: it was in the original spec, so I copied it into the guidelines01:23
wendarmhall119: yes, prepending 'extras-' to the .service and .lens files is an ARB requirement01:23
wendarmhall119: basically, any files that have to be installed in the "standard" locations01:24
wendarmhall119: it's the same for .desktop files01:24
ajmitchthe reason for the naming to to avoid namespace conflicts01:25
ajmitchwhich is why I don't think the version is important in the filename or path01:25
ajmitchI'm sure the TB won't jump on us too harshly if we get it wrong01:25
stgraberyeah, I usually don't put the version in the path as it's not possible to have multiple version with the same package name installed anyway01:26
ajmitchright :)01:26
mhall119are you guys working with anybody to incorporate these requirements into what Quickly produces?01:26
stgraberand it makes updating the package harder in most cases01:26
wendarajmitch: stgraber: actually, I'm not finding the source for the <appname>-<version> requirement on the /opt path01:27
ajmitchwendar: great, we can ignore it then :)01:27
stgraberI think it's just how we did the first app and it stuck ;)01:27
wendarajmitch: stgraber: and, it always struck me as a little silly, so I'll just drop it from the guidelines01:27
ajmitchmhall119: I think that bugs have been filed against quickly to make it produce apps using the right paths, etc, but I'm not sure what #01:28
wendarmhall119: so, you can stick with /opt/extras.ubuntu.com/unity-lens-community/...01:28
mhall119ok, I'll look01:28
mhall119wendar: alright01:28
ajmitchit would be great to reduce the patching that we have to do to 001:28
mhall119I'm hoping to do that for singlet lenses/scopes at least01:29
* ajmitch is having issues at the moment getting a simple patch to be applied, have to track down what's going on01:29
wendarmhall119: yeah, I asked around and joined the Quickly talk mailing list to discuss changes with them01:34
wendarmhall119: Rick is happy to have folks propose changes in branches to be merged01:34
mhall119wendar: Rick?01:34
wendarmhall119: mainly, I think Quickly just doesn't have much active development at the moment01:34
wendarmhall119: Spencer, creator of Quickly01:35
mhall119oh, I don't think he's maintaining it anymore, TOny Bryne is I think, though didrocks has been helping me01:35
mhall119I'm writing a singlet-lens template for it now01:35
ajmitchah, nice01:35
wendarmhall119: ah, I haven't seen the name Tony Bryne at all yet01:36
wendarmhall119: it's mainly mvo who's made the changes I requested so far01:36
wendarmhall119: (as recently as a few weeks ago)01:36
mhall119ah, it's Byrne, not Bryne01:36
mhall119but still01:36
ajmitchI'm surprised that quickly is just in universe01:36
wendarajmitch: it's not really core to Ubuntu01:36
wendarajmitch: it's just the recent promotion on developer.ubuntu.com that made it appear so01:37
ajmitchwendar: no, but it's something that could be pushed more, along with other content creation01:37
wendarajmitch: I'm actually happy to have it made more core, but definitely needs some work to get there01:37
mhall119ajmitch: I think it needs more active and devoted maintenance before it gets there01:37
wendarajmitch: particularly, it needs updating to GTK3 for Precise01:37
ajmitchis diveintopython still on the CD images? :)01:38
ajmitchwendar: it's still using pygtk?01:38
wendarajmitch: yup pygtk01:38
wendarajmitch: diveintopython was on the CD images last I checked, but that was Natty01:38
ajmitchdoes quickly use dh_python2 instead of python-support now?01:40
wendarajmitch: it must have been removed now, the book is 8 years old01:40
ajmitch8 years old but still in main01:40
wendarajmitch: it doesn't, it still uses python-support01:40
wendarajmitch: I have to manually update quickly packages01:40
ajmitchright, that's what I was doing with tagplayer as well01:40
ajmitchare there bugs filed about that?01:41
wendarajmitch: though, mvo said he made some updates for Precise, I'll check trunk and see if he updated that01:41
wendarajmitch: I didn't file bugs, yet, just emailed to ask if there were plans for the updates01:41
wendarajmitch: we should start promoting http://diveintopython3.ep.io/ :)01:42
* ajmitch likes the concept of 1 right way to write an app, make a package that can be approved with minimal work01:43
* wendar too01:45
ajmitchmaybe something to aim for for the next LTS? :)01:46
wendarajmitch: seems sensible02:25
mhall119wendar: quickly uses python-mkdebian, which builds debian package files from the setup.py, I think that's where we need to switch things to dh_python202:52
wendarmhall119: ah, that makes sense02:53
wendarmhall119: I wonder if that's a change to make all the way upstream in Debian?02:53
ajmitchis that the package name?02:53
ajmitchI can't find it on precise02:53
wendarmhall119: or, further upstream? is it a Python package?02:53
ajmitchthe closest I know of is python-stdeb02:53
mhall119wendar: it's from python-distutils-extra, by Martin Pitt02:54
wendarah-ha, pitti beat us to it02:54
wendarrevision 27402:54
wendarhopefully, that made it into Precise02:55
mhall119I'll check with pitti tomorrow02:55
ajmitchthat's the version in precise now02:55
ajmitchhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/python-distutils-extra/+bug/894582 should be fixed then02:57
mhall119hmmm, I guess I need to update02:57
ajmitchso the bug was originally filed against quickly02:57
wendarah, that's my bug02:57
ajmitchwendar: yep :)02:57
wendarforgot I filed it :)02:57
ajmitchI knew I'd seen one filed from the ARB somewhere02:58
dholbachgood morning07:34
dpmgood morning all07:45
coolbhavimhall119, hi12:14
mhall119hey coolbhavi12:49
coolbhavihey mhall119 how you doing?12:49
coolbhavisaw your ubuntu community lenses on ARB queue12:49
coolbhaviand its a cool app12:50
mhall119thanks coolbhavi12:51
coolbhaviThanks to you for making a simple and cool app :D12:52
mhall119I'm not sure it quite qualifies to be called an 'app'12:53
mhall119but I hope people like it12:53
coolbhaviI liked it :D12:53
coolbhavican you give me the ppa link btw m interested in digging more12:54
mhall119coolbhavi: https://launchpad.net/~scopes-packagers/+archive/ppa12:55
coolbhavimhall119, thanks!12:55
coolbhavimhall119, only thing I found is in oneiric it fails to install Dependency is not satisfiable: gir1.2-unity-5.013:05
coolbhavican you have a backport option for this?13:05
mhall119coolbhavi: I'd have to get python-unity-singlet into backports, but extras packages can't enable the packports repo13:07
mhall119so, not relaly13:07
mhall119coolbhavi: this is targetting Precise only13:08
mhall119I discussed with wendar and ajmitch yesterday, we'll work on getting this ready to land, and hold off until closer to Precise's release13:08
coolbhavimhall119, yes but I meant backport as in a ppa build13:10
mhall119coolbhavi: it would take some work13:10
mhall119the Lens API is different between Oneiric and Precise13:10
mhall119the parts of Singlet this one uses didn't even exist in the version of Singlet that supported Oneiric13:11
coolbhavihmmm I wished to see support for different versions of ubuntu so I asked if its complicated then little sense in going through pains13:12
mhall119actually that might be nice to have in Singlet, have it auto-detect the version of Unity and change how it works accordingly13:14
mhall119though the issue with backports and extras still means it won't easily allow singlet lenses into Oneiric13:15
coolbhavihmm yes I understand the complexity at this point of time13:16
cwaynehi, just wondering if my app accidentally went into the commercial queue again15:02
ajmitchwhat is your app?15:05
ajmitchquite likely, since I don't have access to see that15:06
coolbhaviajmitch, me too15:06
cwayneugh, who can i talk to to fix that?15:07
cielakdpm, are there still any chances of finding some work for me?15:09
stgraberoh, actually, looking at the description this seems to be content only package (no actual app)?15:13
stgraberif so, commercial (with a $0 cost) would be the right place as the ARB only accepts actual apps15:14
stgraber(this comment is just based on a 5s read of the page, I may be completely wrong)15:14
* ajmitch should really not be awake at this hour hacking on stuff15:16
ajmitchright, LP lens shows stuff on precise now15:22
ajmitchnot much useful stuff though :)15:22
cwaynestgraber: really? i was told it should still go through the ARB15:23
ajmitchtold by who? the ARB has always had a fairly strict policy on what submissions can go through that process15:24
cwaynedavid pitkin15:25
cwaynemaybe i misheard him?15:25
stgrabercwayne: whoever told you that didn't read the ARB guidelines ;)15:25
stgrabercwayne: "Submissions should be applications, not stand-alone documentation or media (image bundles, fonts, movies). "15:25
stgrabercwayne: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Review/Guidelines15:25
ajmitchcould be that he doesn't know the policy as approved by the TB, he might be working solely off price & license15:25
dpmcielak, sure, I'd recommend talking to the other guys in this channel, I'm sure they'd be happy to get more contributors15:25
stgraberthat sounds likely indeed. I'll mention it to David and bounce the app back to the commercial queue15:26
ajmitchas amusing as rage faces would be...15:26
cwayneajmitch: hah, yeah, it makes irc much more fun :P15:30
cwaynestgraber: ok, so what do I do now? is it in the right queue?15:33
highvoltagegood morning15:35
ajmitchmorning highvoltage15:35
highvoltagewow, still awake ajmitch? :)15:36
stgrabercwayne: yep, it's in the right queue now and should be handled by dpitkin's team15:36
ajmitchhighvoltage: more that I went to bed really early & ended up waking up at ~3 :)15:36
* ajmitch should probably have had dinner before crashing though, I wonder if it's too early to have it for breakfast15:38
highvoltagemy 2012 sleep policy is that if I'm inspired/excited/can't-sleep... then I should use the time instead of trying to sleep and just getting frustrated and waste the time15:41
highvoltagenot sure how well that will work, but I guess it's worth a try :)15:41
highvoltage(moving 7 hours west does wonders for sleep though :) )15:42
ajmitchgoing to bed at 7 & getting up at 3:30 might be pushing it a bit15:44
highvoltageyeah :)15:44
ajmitchbut at least I got some code working, I just have to get the package updated for it now15:47
cielakajmitch, you've mentioned some time ago that you are willing to review harmonyseq soon - are you in the middle of reviewing it? because if not, I might upload few updates to the packaging, according to recent changes in the Review/Guidelines (both to ARB queue and the PPA)15:48
ajmitchupload away, I was trying to finish off another app before moving onto yours again15:59
ajmitchwhich I should get done today15:59
cielakright - just wanted to ensure I won't interrupt your work16:02
cielakokay - done ;)16:05

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