[00:32] <mhall119> wendar: are there any extras packages for Precise yet?
[00:32] <mhall119> "Independent" isn't showing in my USC
[00:32] <ajmitch> there aren't
[00:32] <mhall119> so maybe mine will be first? cool
[00:33] <ajmitch> this did start off as the 'post-release apps' process
[00:34] <ajmitch> mhall119: are you trying to submit apps for precise now?
[00:35] <mhall119> ajmitch: yeah
[00:36] <ajmitch> stgraber would know more than I would, but I don't know if that is open for uploads to be copied to it now or not
[00:37] <ajmitch> while there's a precise Sources.gz file on extras.ubuntu.com, there are a few things that happen behind the scenes
[00:50] <wendar> mhall119: we won't be accepting apps for precise until after the precise release
[00:51] <wendar> mhall119: but we can get it into Oneiric now, and then add to Precise as soon as it's launched
[00:51] <wendar> mhal119: or, does it depend on features of Precise?
[00:51] <ajmitch> bit hard to do that when the lense API is different
[00:51] <wendar> (I haven't tried compiling it yet)
[00:51] <ajmitch> I think that it'd make sense to accept apps for precise after feature freeze
[00:52] <wendar> ajmitch: current policy is only the "current release" of Ubuntu
[00:52] <ajmitch> like backports is meant to be opening up at FF, not sure if that's been done or not
[00:52] <wendar> I do know backports is opening at FF
[00:52] <wendar> yeah, I don't know if they've done it yet
[00:52] <wendar> but, if it's targeting Precise, why not just put it in using the standard process?
[00:53] <wendar> that avoids all the /opt stuff
[00:53] <ajmitch> wendar: right, at FF the platform should be viable for building & releasing apps on, but there could be changes
[00:53] <ajmitch> I'd certainly prefer it to just go in via the standard process
[00:54] <wendar> ajmitch: as in, the non-ARB process?
[00:54] <mhall119> wendar: unfortunately the version of Singlet my lens depends on is only in Precise
[00:55] <ajmitch> wendar: right, the non-ARB process or even into backports if it's open
[00:55] <mhall119> wendar: Can I propose my Singlet package (modified to run on Oneiric) to the ARB, and then submit the lens for Oneiric too?
[00:55] <wendar> ajmitch: backports only accepts packages once they've been approved for some release of Ubuntu, generally the current development release
[00:56] <wendar> mhall119: Extras doesn't accept libraries, only "leaf" applications
[00:56] <ajmitch> wendar: not necessarily true with the current proposal, which is meant to acecpt new packages which can then be copied into the next release as it opens
[00:56] <mhall119> wendar: yeah, i know
[00:57] <ajmitch> the intention behind backports opening early is to have a way to upload new packages all through the 6-month cycle
[00:57] <wendar> mhall119: I'd say Singlet could be backported, but Extras can't automatically enable a backport, so that's problematic too
[00:57] <wendar> mhall119: since FF is upon us, I think the best option is getting it ready to go for Precise Extras
[00:57] <mhall119> I'm okay with not getting this into Oneiric, I just want to get something through the ARB process, preferabbly before Precise is released, so I know how to help other devs
[00:58] <ajmitch> it might be a trial app to see if it can be put into precise extras pre-release
[00:58] <wendar> mhal119: I'd say it's not really a huge deal if we publish it a few weeks before the actual Precise launch date
[00:58] <wendar> (for testing)
[00:58] <mhall119> wendar: there are a *lot* of lenses and scopes waiting to be packaged and send to the ARB, so unity-community-lens is going to be both a trial run and it's packaging files will serve as a template for others
[00:59] <wendar> but, we may have to have some policy conversations around that
[00:59] <mhall119> wendar: that's okay
[00:59] <wendar> like, in general, unlike backports, Extras shouldn't be on a "open as soon as FF hits" policy
[00:59] <mhall119> better now, while we still have some time
[00:59] <wendar> yup
[01:00] <wendar> and, if all the lenses depend on Precise features, it may be that we get them all lined up in the staging PPA
[01:00] <wendar> and, just ready to launch as soon as Precise hits
[01:00] <mhall119> wendar: they don't all, currently, most will need to be upgraded to support Precise
[01:00] <wendar> (or, soon before Precise hits)
[01:00] <wendar> mhall119: okay, those are actually easier
[01:00]  * ajmitch still needs to hack up his lens for precise :)
[01:00] <wendar> mhall119: we can launch them for Oneiric, and then start the upgrade for Precise
[01:01] <mhall119> well, I can't guarantee that they're ready for Oneiric either :)
[01:01] <mhall119> will packages in extras automatically be upgraded to Precise?
[01:01] <mhall119> I thought devs had to resubmit
[01:01] <wendar> mhall119: the general idea is to give developers notice of each upcoming so they can transition
[01:01] <mhall119> ok
[01:01] <ajmitch> I was going to update unity-lens-launchpad & push it through to test uploading for precise
[01:01] <ajmitch> something for the weekend
[01:01] <wendar> mhall119: aye, no automatic transition, just an opportunity for the dev to prepare to resubmit
[01:02] <mhall119> wendar: ajmitch: do you think we should have some kind of naming convention for lenses and scopes?
[01:02] <wendar> mhall119: I was wondering about that
[01:02] <ajmitch> mhall119: yes, I'd follow what's in the main archive
[01:02] <mhall119> I have unity-<project>-lens, ajmitch has unity-lens-<project>
[01:02] <wendar> mhall119: I noticed most are unity-lens-<project>
[01:02] <ajmitch> where they were originally unity-place-X, now unity-lens-X
[01:03] <wendar> mhall119: yeah, one of the comments in my notes is "should this be named unity-lens-community?"
[01:03] <mhall119> ok, I should probably change mine then
[01:03] <wendar> I've seen "unity-scope-*" too
[01:03] <ajmitch> we renamed the askubuntu lens to match the others
[01:03] <mhall119> yeah, that makes more sense that way
[01:04]  * ajmitch should probably remember to apply for UDS sponsorship before next week as well :)
[01:04] <wendar> mhall119: if you want to do that renaming, I can hold off on my branch
[01:05] <wendar> mhall119: actually, I'll just send you my current changelog, that pretty much says everything
[01:05] <mhall119> ajmitch: yeah, you should do that ;)
[01:05] <mhall119> wendar: thanks
[01:05] <wendar> and, you can look at unity-lens-sshsearch for the details
[01:05] <mhall119> ok
[01:06] <ajmitch> we should hopefully get some resolution on whether scopes can depend on lenses at the next TB meeting
[01:06] <mhall119> ajmitch: is it on their agenda yet?
[01:06] <ajmitch> if you haven't added it, you should
[01:06] <ajmitch> actually
[01:06] <ajmitch> it says that a TB person should, so stgraber? :)
[01:07] <ajmitch> afaik people add items themselves & then turn up at the meeting
[01:08] <stgraber> just add it yourself, unless you want me to introduce the topic at the meeting but I doubt it's in mhall119 or jono's best interest of having me present it ;)
[01:08] <ajmitch> heh
[01:09] <mhall119> stgraber: gah, I just sent an email to the TB about it
[01:10] <mhall119> oh well, I'll just look impatient
[01:10] <ajmitch> they'll forgive you, I'm sure
[01:12]  * mhall119 is going to owe stgraber some edubuntu contributions for this
[01:12] <ajmitch> bribery now? :)
[01:12] <mhall119> what do you mean 'now'?
[01:12] <mhall119> :)
[01:16] <mhall119> wendar: I don't think there's any standard or convention for dbus names/paths on lenses or scopes, but I'll ask
[01:20] <mhall119> for the /opt/ path, should it use /opt/extras.ubuntu.com/<project_name>-<version>/ ?
[01:20] <mhall119> is the version number in there necessary?
[01:21] <wendar> mhall119: that's the standard approved by the TB
[01:21] <wendar> but, we haven't always followed it strictly
[01:21] <mhall119> are we allowed to submit new versions for the same release?
[01:21] <wendar> (none of the other lenses do)
[01:21]  * ajmitch didn't follow that for tagplayer
[01:22] <ajmitch> since you shouldn't be able to have multiple versions installed at once, it shouldn't matter
[01:22] <wendar> mhall119: yes, it still runs through an ARB review, but it's usually a quicker review since we only need to look at the diff
[01:23] <wendar> ajmitch: I'm not particularly attached to the version in the path
[01:23] <mhall119> wendar: on the .service file rename you did, is that an ARB requirement?
[01:23] <wendar> ajmitch: it was in the original spec, so I copied it into the guidelines
[01:23] <wendar> mhall119: yes, prepending 'extras-' to the .service and .lens files is an ARB requirement
[01:24] <mhall119> ok
[01:24] <wendar> mhall119: basically, any files that have to be installed in the "standard" locations
[01:24] <wendar> mhall119: it's the same for .desktop files
[01:25] <ajmitch> the reason for the naming to to avoid namespace conflicts
[01:25] <ajmitch> which is why I don't think the version is important in the filename or path
[01:25] <ajmitch> I'm sure the TB won't jump on us too harshly if we get it wrong
[01:26] <stgraber> yeah, I usually don't put the version in the path as it's not possible to have multiple version with the same package name installed anyway
[01:26] <ajmitch> right :)
[01:26] <mhall119> are you guys working with anybody to incorporate these requirements into what Quickly produces?
[01:26] <stgraber> and it makes updating the package harder in most cases
[01:27] <wendar> ajmitch: stgraber: actually, I'm not finding the source for the <appname>-<version> requirement on the /opt path
[01:27] <ajmitch> wendar: great, we can ignore it then :)
[01:27] <stgraber> I think it's just how we did the first app and it stuck ;)
[01:27] <wendar> ajmitch: stgraber: and, it always struck me as a little silly, so I'll just drop it from the guidelines
[01:28] <ajmitch> mhall119: I think that bugs have been filed against quickly to make it produce apps using the right paths, etc, but I'm not sure what #
[01:28] <wendar> mhall119: so, you can stick with /opt/extras.ubuntu.com/unity-lens-community/...
[01:28] <mhall119> ok, I'll look
[01:28] <mhall119> wendar: alright
[01:28] <ajmitch> it would be great to reduce the patching that we have to do to 0
[01:28] <mhall119> yeah
[01:29] <mhall119> I'm hoping to do that for singlet lenses/scopes at least
[01:29]  * ajmitch is having issues at the moment getting a simple patch to be applied, have to track down what's going on
[01:34] <wendar> mhall119: yeah, I asked around and joined the Quickly talk mailing list to discuss changes with them
[01:34] <wendar> mhall119: Rick is happy to have folks propose changes in branches to be merged
[01:34] <mhall119> wendar: Rick?
[01:34] <wendar> mhall119: mainly, I think Quickly just doesn't have much active development at the moment
[01:35] <wendar> mhall119: Spencer, creator of Quickly
[01:35] <mhall119> oh, I don't think he's maintaining it anymore, TOny Bryne is I think, though didrocks has been helping me
[01:35] <mhall119> I'm writing a singlet-lens template for it now
[01:35] <ajmitch> ah, nice
[01:36] <wendar> mhall119: ah, I haven't seen the name Tony Bryne at all yet
[01:36] <wendar> mhall119: it's mainly mvo who's made the changes I requested so far
[01:36] <wendar> mhall119: (as recently as a few weeks ago)
[01:36] <mhall119> ah, it's Byrne, not Bryne
[01:36] <mhall119> but still
[01:36] <ajmitch> I'm surprised that quickly is just in universe
[01:36] <wendar> ajmitch: it's not really core to Ubuntu
[01:37] <wendar> ajmitch: it's just the recent promotion on developer.ubuntu.com that made it appear so
[01:37] <ajmitch> wendar: no, but it's something that could be pushed more, along with other content creation
[01:37] <wendar> ajmitch: I'm actually happy to have it made more core, but definitely needs some work to get there
[01:37] <mhall119> ajmitch: I think it needs more active and devoted maintenance before it gets there
[01:37] <wendar> ajmitch: particularly, it needs updating to GTK3 for Precise
[01:38] <ajmitch> is diveintopython still on the CD images? :)
[01:38] <ajmitch> wendar: it's still using pygtk?
[01:38] <wendar> ajmitch: yup pygtk
[01:38] <wendar> ajmitch: diveintopython was on the CD images last I checked, but that was Natty
[01:40] <ajmitch> does quickly use dh_python2 instead of python-support now?
[01:40] <wendar> ajmitch: it must have been removed now, the book is 8 years old
[01:40] <ajmitch> 8 years old but still in main
[01:40] <wendar> ajmitch: it doesn't, it still uses python-support
[01:40] <wendar> ajmitch: I have to manually update quickly packages
[01:40] <ajmitch> right, that's what I was doing with tagplayer as well
[01:41] <ajmitch> are there bugs filed about that?
[01:41] <wendar> ajmitch: though, mvo said he made some updates for Precise, I'll check trunk and see if he updated that
[01:41] <wendar> ajmitch: I didn't file bugs, yet, just emailed to ask if there were plans for the updates
[01:42] <wendar> ajmitch: we should start promoting http://diveintopython3.ep.io/ :)
[01:43]  * ajmitch likes the concept of 1 right way to write an app, make a package that can be approved with minimal work
[01:45]  * wendar too
[01:46] <ajmitch> maybe something to aim for for the next LTS? :)
[02:25] <wendar> ajmitch: seems sensible
[02:52] <mhall119> wendar: quickly uses python-mkdebian, which builds debian package files from the setup.py, I think that's where we need to switch things to dh_python2
[02:53] <wendar> mhall119: ah, that makes sense
[02:53] <wendar> mhall119: I wonder if that's a change to make all the way upstream in Debian?
[02:53] <ajmitch> is that the package name?
[02:53] <ajmitch> I can't find it on precise
[02:53] <wendar> mhall119: or, further upstream? is it a Python package?
[02:53] <ajmitch> the closest I know of is python-stdeb
[02:54] <mhall119> wendar: it's from python-distutils-extra, by Martin Pitt
[02:54] <wendar> ah-ha, pitti beat us to it
[02:54] <wendar> https://code.launchpad.net/~python-distutils-extra-hackers/python-distutils-extra/debian
[02:54] <wendar> revision 274
[02:55] <wendar> hopefully, that made it into Precise
[02:55] <ajmitch> right
[02:55] <mhall119> I'll check with pitti tomorrow
[02:55] <ajmitch> that's the version in precise now
[02:55] <wendar> sweet!
[02:57] <ajmitch> https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-distutils-extra/+bug/894582 should be fixed then
[02:57] <mhall119> hmmm, I guess I need to update
[02:57] <ajmitch> so the bug was originally filed against quickly
[02:57] <wendar> ah, that's my bug
[02:57] <mhall119> lol
[02:57] <ajmitch> wendar: yep :)
[02:57] <wendar> forgot I filed it :)
[02:58] <ajmitch> I knew I'd seen one filed from the ARB somewhere
[07:34] <dholbach> good morning
[07:45] <dpm> good morning all
[12:14] <coolbhavi> mhall119, hi
[12:49] <mhall119> hey coolbhavi
[12:49] <coolbhavi> hey mhall119 how you doing?
[12:49] <coolbhavi> saw your ubuntu community lenses on ARB queue
[12:50] <coolbhavi> and its a cool app
[12:50] <coolbhavi> :)
[12:51] <mhall119> thanks coolbhavi
[12:52] <coolbhavi> Thanks to you for making a simple and cool app :D
[12:53] <mhall119> I'm not sure it quite qualifies to be called an 'app'
[12:53] <mhall119> but I hope people like it
[12:53] <coolbhavi> I liked it :D
[12:54] <coolbhavi> can you give me the ppa link btw m interested in digging more
[12:55] <mhall119> coolbhavi: https://launchpad.net/~scopes-packagers/+archive/ppa
[12:55] <coolbhavi> mhall119, thanks!
[13:05] <coolbhavi> mhall119, only thing I found is in oneiric it fails to install Dependency is not satisfiable: gir1.2-unity-5.0
[13:05] <coolbhavi> can you have a backport option for this?
[13:07] <mhall119> coolbhavi: I'd have to get python-unity-singlet into backports, but extras packages can't enable the packports repo
[13:07] <mhall119> so, not relaly
[13:08] <mhall119> coolbhavi: this is targetting Precise only
[13:08] <mhall119> I discussed with wendar and ajmitch yesterday, we'll work on getting this ready to land, and hold off until closer to Precise's release
[13:10] <coolbhavi> mhall119, yes but I meant backport as in a ppa build
[13:10] <mhall119> coolbhavi: it would take some work
[13:10] <mhall119> the Lens API is different between Oneiric and Precise
[13:11] <mhall119> the parts of Singlet this one uses didn't even exist in the version of Singlet that supported Oneiric
[13:12] <coolbhavi> hmmm I wished to see support for different versions of ubuntu so I asked if its complicated then little sense in going through pains
[13:14] <mhall119> actually that might be nice to have in Singlet, have it auto-detect the version of Unity and change how it works accordingly
[13:15] <mhall119> though the issue with backports and extras still means it won't easily allow singlet lenses into Oneiric
[13:16] <coolbhavi> hmm yes I understand the complexity at this point of time
[15:02] <cwayne> hi, just wondering if my app accidentally went into the commercial queue again
[15:05] <ajmitch> what is your app?
[15:05] <cwayne> https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/apps/513/
[15:06] <ajmitch> quite likely, since I don't have access to see that
[15:06] <coolbhavi> ajmitch, me too
[15:07] <cwayne> ugh, who can i talk to to fix that?
[15:09] <cielak> dpm, are there still any chances of finding some work for me?
[15:12] <stgraber> looking
[15:13] <stgraber> fixed
[15:13] <stgraber> oh, actually, looking at the description this seems to be content only package (no actual app)?
[15:14] <stgraber> if so, commercial (with a $0 cost) would be the right place as the ARB only accepts actual apps
[15:14] <stgraber> (this comment is just based on a 5s read of the page, I may be completely wrong)
[15:16]  * ajmitch should really not be awake at this hour hacking on stuff
[15:22] <ajmitch> right, LP lens shows stuff on precise now
[15:22] <ajmitch> not much useful stuff though :)
[15:23] <cwayne> stgraber: really? i was told it should still go through the ARB
[15:24] <ajmitch> told by who? the ARB has always had a fairly strict policy on what submissions can go through that process
[15:25] <cwayne> david pitkin
[15:25] <cwayne> maybe i misheard him?
[15:25] <stgraber> cwayne: whoever told you that didn't read the ARB guidelines ;)
[15:25] <stgraber> cwayne: "Submissions should be applications, not stand-alone documentation or media (image bundles, fonts, movies). "
[15:25] <stgraber> cwayne: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Review/Guidelines
[15:25] <ajmitch> could be that he doesn't know the policy as approved by the TB, he might be working solely off price & license
[15:25] <dpm> cielak, sure, I'd recommend talking to the other guys in this channel, I'm sure they'd be happy to get more contributors
[15:26] <stgraber> that sounds likely indeed. I'll mention it to David and bounce the app back to the commercial queue
[15:26] <ajmitch> as amusing as rage faces would be...
[15:26] <stgraber> done
[15:30] <cwayne> ajmitch: hah, yeah, it makes irc much more fun :P
[15:33] <cwayne> stgraber: ok, so what do I do now? is it in the right queue?
[15:35] <highvoltage> good morning
[15:35] <ajmitch> morning highvoltage
[15:36] <highvoltage> wow, still awake ajmitch? :)
[15:36] <stgraber> cwayne: yep, it's in the right queue now and should be handled by dpitkin's team
[15:36] <ajmitch> highvoltage: more that I went to bed really early & ended up waking up at ~3 :)
[15:38]  * ajmitch should probably have had dinner before crashing though, I wonder if it's too early to have it for breakfast
[15:41] <highvoltage> my 2012 sleep policy is that if I'm inspired/excited/can't-sleep... then I should use the time instead of trying to sleep and just getting frustrated and waste the time
[15:41] <highvoltage> not sure how well that will work, but I guess it's worth a try :)
[15:42] <highvoltage> (moving 7 hours west does wonders for sleep though :) )
[15:44] <ajmitch> going to bed at 7 & getting up at 3:30 might be pushing it a bit
[15:44] <highvoltage> yeah :)
[15:47] <ajmitch> but at least I got some code working, I just have to get the package updated for it now
[15:48] <cielak> ajmitch, you've mentioned some time ago that you are willing to review harmonyseq soon - are you in the middle of reviewing it? because if not, I might upload few updates to the packaging, according to recent changes in the Review/Guidelines (both to ARB queue and the PPA)
[15:59] <ajmitch> upload away, I was trying to finish off another app before moving onto yours again
[15:59] <ajmitch> which I should get done today
[16:02] <cielak> right - just wanted to ensure I won't interrupt your work
[16:05] <cielak> okay - done ;)