[00:00] <hcfd_> Ahh.. got it. / was set to 700, needed to be 755 permissions
[00:00] <hcfd_> :D
[00:00] <hcfd_> Silly me
[00:00] <popey> how did that happen?
[00:00] <popey> did you not copy permissions over?
[00:00] <Memran> i need sleep
[00:00] <Memran> good night, and thanks for help :)
[00:00] <hcfd_> popey, I did.. but I copied to /media/SSDbuntu
[00:00] <hcfd_> Where SSDbuntu is where I mounted the new drive
[00:01] <hcfd_> I'm guessing the permissions issue arose there?
[00:01] <popey> how did you copy?
[00:02] <hcfd_> sudo cp -afv /path/to/src/*  /path/to/dst
[00:02] <hcfd_> Did I do bad?
[00:03] <hcfd_> Path to dst was SSDbuntu in /media, created by root
[00:03] <hcfd_> then mounted
[00:03] <hcfd_> If I let Ubuntu mount it itself maybe there wouldn't be this issue.. I dunno.
[00:04] <hcfd_> She's all-singing, all-dancing... time to benchmark this SSD
[00:04] <hcfd_> Now that / is on it
[00:05] <hcfd_> Whoa, okay, things are marginally slower than when the drive was raw
[00:05] <hcfd_> 0.2ms access, 215MB/sec average read - not bad! If only I had SATAIII 6.0Gbps..
[00:06]  * hamitron looks at his empty sataIII ports
[00:06] <hamitron> using IDE
[00:06] <hamitron> :/
[00:06] <hcfd_> Oh dear, how come hamitron?
[00:07] <hamitron> too tight to buy another drive till that one breaks
[00:07] <hamitron> ;)
[00:07] <hcfd> haha
[00:08] <hcfd> I was too, but then I decided it was time to start upgrading a little... treat myself, you know?
[00:08] <directhex> i want a new pc
[00:08] <directhex> but child on the way, and still paying off the wife's pc... :/
[00:08] <hcfd> Christ... what did you buy her?
[00:08] <hamitron> I'm starting to just not care about hardware specs, so long as it works
[00:09]  * hcfd pats his humble Q6600/8GB/3TB machine and wishes he had an i5 with 16GB
[00:09] <hamitron> I still not got quad core
[00:09] <hamitron> :/
[00:10] <hcfd> hamitron, ah me too.. for the most part. Gear lust never goes away though. However, this SSD was a good purchase considering my HDDs are the slowest part of the system, and always in use. Widening the bottlenecks is always a good idea.
[00:10] <hamitron> yeh
[00:10] <hamitron> I don't do much on the hdd in this PC
[00:10] <hcfd> I have way more CPU than I need and just about enough RAM
[00:11] <directhex> hcfd er... i5 2500, radeon 6970, 120G SSD, 8G RAM, blu-ray burner. other odds & sods
[00:11] <hamitron> I'm still a huge fan of less cores, but higher clock speeds
[00:11] <hamitron> :)
[00:11] <hcfd> Also got 43Meg FTTC service.. so.. yeah, 3TB isn't enough storage.. but I'm trying to get used to being able to stream stuff vs download to disk
[00:11]  * hamitron dribbles
[00:12] <hcfd> hamitron, best of both! I almost bought a C2D rather than a C2Q.. but this thing was, at one point, clocked to 3.4GHz and ran fine.
[00:12] <hcfd> 3.4GHz x 4 cores is kinda nice
[00:12] <hamitron> yeh
[00:12] <directhex> i only get 27M from my FTTC
[00:12] <hamitron> "only"
[00:12] <hamitron> :|
[00:12] <hcfd> hah
[00:12] <directhex> 8M up though
[00:13] <hcfd> Me too
[00:13] <hcfd> And trust me, 'only' 27M is awesome
[00:13] <hamitron> infinity?
[00:13] <hcfd> Yeah
[00:13] <directhex> yeah
[00:13] <hamitron> if that is available to homes, is it available for businesses too?
[00:13] <hcfd> hamitron, yes
[00:13] <directhex> bt sucks though. e.g. they automatically opt you in to using your homehub as a public openzone hotspot
[00:14] <hcfd> I work at a place with 2xInfinity... ie: 90Meg down, 16Meg up... and another place had 45Meg down, 8Meg up.. like myself :)
[00:14] <hamitron> I shall wrap tin foil around it >:|
[00:14] <hcfd> directhex, you can turn that shit off can you not?
[00:14] <hcfd> Or.. don't use the hub
[00:14] <hcfd> Infinity means you have a modem and separate 'hub'
[00:14] <directhex> you can't disable it on the hub anymore
[00:14] <hcfd> Just put the hub in the bin and replace with Crisco!
[00:15] <hamitron> you have to use their homehub?
[00:15] <hcfd> Don't have to
[00:15] <hamitron> guess not
[00:15] <hamitron> :)
[00:15] <hcfd> I am, in fact
[00:15] <directhex> you can only disable it via the bt fon account page
[00:15] <directhex> hamitron: any high-end cable router
[00:15] <directhex> hamitron: or replace both devices with a vdsl router
[00:15] <hcfd> \o/
[00:15] <hamitron> reckon a WRT54GL will handle it?
[00:15] <hcfd> No
[00:15] <hcfd> I doubt
[00:15] <directhex> hamitron: hm, doubt it
[00:15] <hamitron> no? :|
[00:15] <directhex> hamitron: old kit. designed for the 8M down days
[00:15] <hcfd> Broadcom 200MHz
[00:15] <hcfd> pfah
[00:16] <hamitron> well, will have to give it a go
[00:16] <hamitron> ;)
[00:16] <hcfd> I use ddwrt on one for WAP but that's about it
[00:16] <hamitron> again, too tight to upgrade if "it works"
[00:16] <hamitron> ;)
[00:16] <hcfd> Would replace the BT hub except I'm moving soon
[00:16] <hcfd> hah, my thoughts exactly hamitron
[00:16] <hcfd> I *will* replace it the port forwarding turns out to be a pile of crap
[00:17] <hamitron> the load is always 0.00 I find
[00:17] <hcfd> Going to utilise my upstream soon with a couple of services... My flippin VPS host is crap
[00:17] <hamitron> even on 5mbit with 3500 connections
[00:17] <hamitron> ;)
[00:17] <hamitron> sometimes get 0.05
[00:17] <hcfd> Hmm
[00:18] <hcfd> My WRT is a piece of crap then
[00:18] <hamitron> I had to disable UPnP to get it working right
[00:18] <hamitron> disabled QoS too
[00:19] <hamitron> but who uses them? ;)
[00:20] <hcfd> Hmm
[00:20] <hcfd> Load avg: 0.13, 0.05, 0.01
[00:20] <hcfd> 0.9MB RAM free
[00:20] <hcfd> I only have *2* wireless clients.
[00:20] <hamitron> oh, I disabled wireless too
[00:20] <hamitron> haha
[00:20] <hcfd> 110 active connections
[00:20] <hcfd> Uptime 40 days
[00:20] <hcfd> hmm
[00:21] <hcfd> Linksys WRT54G/GL/GS
[00:21] <hamitron> Time: 00:21:08 up 1 day, 51 min, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
[00:21] <hcfd> It's a GS
[00:21] <hcfd> Is that crap?
[00:21] <hamitron> dunno
[00:21] <hcfd> Seems like a pile of crap :D
[00:22] <hamitron> not the worst if it runs dd-wrt
[00:22] <hcfd> Oh.. yeah.. actually, my main workstation is cabled to it too. Forget I took my Gigabit switch elsewhere for the timebeing
[00:22] <hcfd> s/Forget/Forgot
[00:22] <hcfd> Now to move some data around on this SSD
[00:23] <hamitron> 3514 connections
[00:23] <hamitron> :-o
[00:23] <hamitron> I like to try keep that below 2000
[00:25] <hamitron> hcfd, do you use QoS?
[00:25] <hcfd> No
[00:26] <hcfd> I've got 43M down baby!
[00:26] <hamitron> ;0
[00:26] <hamitron> :)
[00:26] <hamitron> just that adds a lot to the load on the cpu
[00:26] <hamitron> hcfd, so your wrt54g handles 43M down fine?
[00:28] <hcfd> aye, I know what you're saying
[00:29] <hcfd> No no.. I have line == modem == BTHomeHub3 == eth to WRT ---> devices
[00:29] <hcfd> It can handle 43M fine on the 100Meg switch inside
[00:29] <hcfd> Wifi is still 802.11b/g.. and a bit 'meh
[00:29] <hcfd> No modem in the model I have
[00:30] <hcfd> BTHomeHub3 is in another building, serving a bunch of wireless devices.. about 4-6 or so
[00:31] <hcfd> The WRT is usually just for wireless in this building for a couple of devices, but as my Gigabit switch is elsewhere... I'm using the WRT switch for other things atm
[00:31] <hamitron> ah
[00:32] <hcfd> :)
[00:32] <hcfd> It's kind of funny that my LAN setup is so crappy
[00:33] <hcfd> I have a bunch of 2950s and 3550s here for messing with
[00:33] <hamitron> tbh, I find my P120 comp faster as a router, compared to the wrt54gl
[00:33] <hcfd> But I don't use them on my LAN
[00:33] <hcfd> I imagine it would be.. What are you running on it, some flavour of BSD?
[00:33] <hamitron> it was slackware
[00:34] <hcfd> Yay for Slackware!
[00:35] <hcfd> I used it as my desktop distro for many years before I realised I was being silly and that Ubuntu is about a million times more sane (on the desktop)
[00:36] <hamitron> I'm just starting to give up on ubuntu tbh
[00:36] <hamitron> it is good, just not what I need atm
[00:36] <hamitron> my newer machines may run 12.04 when it comes out
[00:36] <hamitron> will see
[00:36] <hamitron> :)
[00:36]  * hcfd nods
[00:37] <hcfd> What kind of work do you need your distro to do?
[00:37] <hamitron> I need it to work
[00:37] <hcfd> Stop updating it!
[00:37] <hamitron> on a wide range of hardware
[00:37] <hcfd> heh
[00:37] <hamitron> hehe
[00:38] <hcfd> I'm running 2.6.32-28-generic-pae since.. ages ago
[00:38] <hamitron> 8.04 was the last version I found worked well on everything I got
[00:38] <hcfd> True that
[00:38] <hcfd> 10.10 was a mess
[00:38] <hcfd> I stopped trying after that
[00:38] <hamitron> but it isn't a distro targeting what I got
[00:38] <hcfd> 10.04.4 LTS is in good shape for me
[00:38] <hamitron> I use 10.04 on a few of my machines
[00:38] <hcfd> Looking forward to 12.04 but again I won't be hurrying to switch.. not until I have a few days free to iron stuff out
[00:39] <directhex> hamitron: really concerned about 12.04 :/
[00:39] <hamitron> but trying slackware 13.37 now, and loving it
[00:39] <hamitron> directhex, why?
[00:39] <directhex> migrating a dozen non-technical users, many of whom don't even work in the office, onto a totally alien experience from 10.04
[00:39] <hcfd> hamitron, I haven't tried slack since... what was the version with the Tazmanian devil instead of Tux? 13.0?
[00:39] <hamitron> heck, I don't even know what to be worried about..... not even tried unity ;)
[00:40] <hcfd> Unity is for the bin.
[00:40] <hamitron> didn't realise slackware had changed the logo? something to do with a smoking ban? :D
[00:40] <daftykins> directhex: are you putting it in at work?
[00:41] <hamitron> is unity THAT different?
[00:41] <directhex> hamitron: nontechnical users throw a shit fit if an icon changes colour.
[00:42] <hamitron> guess it means staff training :/
[00:42] <directhex> daftykins: well people are on 10.04 now, so 12.04 is the upgrade path
[00:42] <hamitron> :/
[00:43] <hamitron> I'm guessing not so much will change for me.... I use LXDE
[00:43] <hamitron> and most people I've trialed LXDE on, prefer it to Gnome
[00:43] <hcfd> :)
[00:43] <hcfd> brb, rebooting to test new home partition
[00:44] <hamitron> gl
[00:44] <hamitron> :)
[00:50] <directhex> it's so totally time for bed
[00:51] <hamitron> that or coffee
[00:55] <hcfd> Yay!
[00:55] <hcfd> /dev/sdb1              46G  7.4G   37G  17% /
[00:55] <hcfd> /dev/sdb1              46G  7.4G   37G  17% /
[00:55] <hcfd> er
[00:55] <hcfd> /dev/sdb2              63G   28G   33G  47% /home
[00:56] <hamitron> sdb is the SSD?
[00:56] <hcfd> Yes
[00:56] <hamitron> cool :)
[00:56] <hcfd> Now to clear out some cruft in /home
[00:56] <hcfd> And take my VMs off of /dev/md1 and move to SSD
[00:57] <hcfd> +150MB/sec speed boost
[00:59] <hcfd> Okay XP SP3 Performance Edition, show me what you got!
[00:59] <hcfd> Uhm..
[00:59] <hcfd> Okay, so that was 6 seconds
[00:59] <hcfd> hahaha :D
[00:59] <hamitron> can hardly expect windows to be "high performance"
[00:59] <hamitron> ;/
[00:59]  * hcfd needs a tissue
[00:59] <hcfd> True that
[00:59] <hcfd> But.. 6 seconds.. fuck me
[00:59] <hamitron> unless you are female and sexy, no ty
[01:00] <hamitron> ;/
[01:02] <hcfd> Time to see what MacOSX's boot time is
[01:02] <daftykins> hamitron: don't be picky :P
[01:03] <hamitron> ;)
[01:03] <hamitron> you should know I like things to be perfect, by how much I complain
[01:04] <hcfd> hamitron, this is the internet, you can pretend I'm either one of these two: http://tinyurl.com/89kygsa :p
[01:04] <daftykins> hamitron: that or the OS bugs you put up with ;)
[01:04] <hamitron> daftykins can be the other then
[01:04] <hamitron> ;D
[01:05]  * daftykins pouts
[01:05] <hamitron> at least I'm sick of KDE now
[01:05] <hcfd> hah
[01:06] <hcfd> hamitron, it took you more than a minute to hate it? :D
[01:06] <daftykins> hcfd: it's time we went shopping, grab the trolley?
[01:06] <hamitron> 2 weeks
[01:06] <hamitron> I like to give things a fair test
[01:07] <hamitron> still torn between LXDE and fluxbox
[01:07] <hamitron> probably LXDE is best, as newbs can work it better
[01:07] <daftykins> g'night all
[01:07] <hamitron> nn daftykins
[01:08] <daftykins> don't sty up too late now
[01:08] <daftykins> :>
[01:08] <hamitron> late?
[01:08] <hamitron> the night is young ;/
[01:08] <daftykins> it's mah birthday and i'll sleep if i want to ;D
[01:08] <hcfd> night daftykins
[01:08] <hamitron> grats
[01:08] <hamitron> :)
[01:08] <hcfd> Happy birthday :)
[01:08] <daftykins> cheers :)
[01:08]  * daftykins disappears
[07:32] <czajkowski> aloha
[07:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning
[07:58] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: hows you?
[07:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> Good thanks czajkowski :-D - You are being especially nice. What's up?
[07:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh yes, how are you too?
[08:03] <czajkowski> good thanks
[08:05] <diplo> Morning all
[08:06] <czajkowski> ahh good other people have the same bug as me https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-power/+bug/933466
[08:07] <DJones> Morning all
[08:13] <daubers> Morning
[08:25] <daubers> I see apple have decided to drop the subtlety
[09:11] <popey> hmm, thunderbird is broken for me today
[09:11] <popey> i just get an empty window
[09:11] <imexil> popey: I thought you are on gmail anyway
[09:12] <popey> personal mail is, work mail is thunderbird
[09:19] <buzz_> popey, thunderbird --safe-mode then disable addons and it will work. then enable all cept the erm messaging menu
[09:19] <buzz_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunderbird/+bug/933951
[09:21] <AlanBell> morning all
[09:21] <buzz_> mornin
[09:21] <JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone! :)
[09:21] <buzz_> friday yay..
[09:21] <buzz_> is it too early for a beer ?
[09:21]  * buzz_ has been working all night..
[09:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Did someone say beer?
[09:24] <buzz_> yeh sorry
[09:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> IT'S FRIDAY :-D:-D:-D
[09:24] <christel> mmmbeer
[09:24] <buzz_> \o/
[09:28] <popey> haha, fixed 12 mins ago
[09:28] <gord> if anyone wanted to write a greasemonkey script that moves the close button in the google plus image viewer thing to the left, i would be very happy ;)
[09:28] <popey> thanks buzz_
[09:28] <buzz_> np honey
[09:28] <buzz_> if you see the bug, i was there just earlier saying "help" :)
[09:28]  * popey marks a dupe
[09:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> That is uber cool: http://gizmodo.com/5885610/night-snowboarding-in-an-led-suit-is-mesmerizing-to-watch
[09:48] <buzz_> TheOpenSourcerer, that is awesome
[09:49] <davmor2> morning all
[09:50] <davmor2> bigcalm: told you I'd live through a night in a restaurant with czajkowski
[09:57]  * bigcalm groans and rolls out of bed
[09:57] <bigcalm> davmor2: you were very well behaved ;)
[09:57] <bigcalm> That was a top notch evening. Glad to have been invited
[10:07] <daubers> Does anyone know of a way to hardware accelerate md5 or sha?
[10:09] <gord> daubers, write an opencl md5/sha hasher?
[10:09] <gord> it wouldn't be that hard
[10:10] <daubers> gord: Might come to that I think
[10:10] <gord> though depending on your situation, you might not get the speed boost you want
[10:10] <daubers> disk access speed isn't a problem
[10:11] <daubers> I need to find a way to hash a file (create a recomputable unique ID for a file not based on it's name) in no more than a minute
[10:11] <daubers> File can be upto ~50GB
[10:12] <gord> can you read 50gb in a minute?
[10:12] <daubers> Yes
[10:12] <gord> then i don't see why you can't do it on the cpu
[10:12] <daubers> It's not quick enough
[10:12] <gord> md5 really isn't an intensive algorithm
[10:13] <daubers> Dunno why, but it takes forever
[10:14] <gord> probably just the implementation you are using
[10:15] <AlanBell> does it have to be based on every single bit of the file?
[10:15] <daubers> It has to be unique enough to differntiate files
[10:15] <AlanBell> how different are the files?
[10:16] <AlanBell> would it be two big videos, identical except for a couple of frames?
[10:16] <daubers> More than likely video files, might be relativley similar
[10:17] <DJones> AlanBell: Any interest in this comment http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/news/government-anticipates-5-billion-cash-savings-year "£140 million saved by demanding – for the first time – a rigorous business case for any significant ICT spend and only allowing it where it is absolutely necessary to bring government in line with standard business practices."
[10:19] <AlanBell> yeah, it is interesting
[10:20] <AlanBell> I don't think the government is a good customer though
[10:20] <AlanBell> they are going to remain dependent on the SIs
[10:35] <ali1234> daubers: sha256 is the core of bitcoin, there are a LOT of very fast GPU implementations of it now. you do need an AMD GPU though
[10:35]  * oimon has turned his back on unity due to irreconcilable differences :(
[10:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: You going to one of these BCS Awareness events? http://www.flax.co.uk/blog/2012/02/17/searching-and-finding-open-source-in-uk-government/
[10:37] <ali1234> you will probably have difficulty streaming the 50GB to the GPU fast enough to hash it tbh
[10:37] <bigcalm> popey: You know how VM are upgrading everybody for free? Had a letter this morning saying they were putting an extra 4.70 per month onto our bundle :(
[10:37] <AlanBell> oh dunno, might do
[10:38] <popey> bigcalm: yeah, i got that too
[10:38] <gord> you got upgraded to the newer price bracket for free!
[10:38] <bigcalm> The fudgers
[10:38] <bigcalm> Heh
[10:48] <daubers> ali1234: Hmm.. might have a bit of a dig around
[10:48] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:51] <ali1234> daubers: is this just a simple "are these files the same" test? ie it's not required to be secure?
[10:51] <popey> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/efb76e490d7a775ece7eaaef205a927866a16594?authuser=0&hl=en&source=1#
[10:51] <popey> fun ☺
[10:51] <ali1234> daubers: what i mean is you are not worried about people intentionally generating collisions
[10:52] <bigcalm> popey: you're inviting us to the hangout?
[10:52] <popey> yeah, why not
[10:52] <popey> ☺
[10:52] <popey> we're testing
[10:53] <gord> latest ubuntu has broken my pseye webcam :( can't play
[10:54] <daubers> ali1234: Yes, pretty much
[10:55]  * bigcalm spies a pirate
[10:57] <oimon> any gnome shell users know how to get the tomboy icon to appear in the icon tray ?
[11:00] <davmor2> oimon: I thought their icon tray was more locked down than Unity's so you probably can't
[11:01] <oimon> davmor2, hmm. not a show stopper but rather annoying. maybe there's some gconf thing i can do
[11:01] <brobostigon> oimon: i have tomboy automaticlly starting, here, just use the startup config app, to get it to start,
[11:02] <oimon> brobostigon, what about the icon in the tray?
[11:02] <brobostigon> oimon: it is there.
[11:02] <oimon> oh
[11:02] <oimon> i start it by hand, and it isn't there
[11:02] <brobostigon> weird. no idea then.
[11:02] <oimon> it's in the notifications "backup tray" at the bottom instead
[11:03] <oimon> otherwise i think i might be happy with gnome shell going forward
[11:04] <oimon> using docky instead of the gnome window chooser
[11:05] <oimon> out of the box shell is a fail, but after tweaking it can be made useful
[11:06] <brobostigon> first thing i changed, was to have the full date and 24hr clock, in the calendar thingie, in the top center.
[11:31] <oimon> i got the google calendar appearing in the planner, which is nice
[11:33] <brobostigon> oimon: it takes that info via evolution if i remember.
[11:33] <ant0xa> hiya. i have problem with bbc iplayer. its stops playing after few minutes. any other flash player working fine.
[11:34] <oimon> brobostigon, i don't have evo installed, i use a script to do the checks
[11:34] <brobostigon> oimon: ah, interesting, i didnt know that was possible.
[11:35] <oimon> brobostigon, http://maketecheasier.com/integrate-google-calendar-into-gnome-shell/2011/10/04
[11:35] <oimon> although "open calendar fails"
[11:35] <oimon> i don't need that bit
[11:35] <brobostigon> thank you oimon
[11:36] <oimon> i also use the gmail checker extension
[11:36] <oimon> which is great
[11:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - BBC Micro 2 is coming: http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/news/raspberry-pi-to-run-bbc-micro-2/ :-D
[11:45] <oimon> brobostigon, how many screens you have?
[11:47] <brobostigon> oimon: screens ?
[11:48] <ali1234> TheOpenSourcerer: "cross platform IDE based on eclipse"
[11:48] <ali1234> i can't imagine anything more different from the original
[11:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I know. But it is about learning.
[11:48] <ali1234> java, eclipse, 256mb ram...
[11:49] <ali1234> and an arm CPU
[11:49] <ali1234> that's going to work well
[11:49] <brobostigon> oimon: my eeepc has one screen, yes.
[11:50] <oimon> brobostigon,, i wask asking because switching desktops only works on my left screen. didn't know if that was design
[11:50] <brobostigon> oimon: ah, i see, no idea, good question.
[11:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2012/feb/17/lego-launch-minecraft-sets
[11:54] <czajkowski> popey: eh......... did you get thunderbird back working this morning
[11:55] <davmor2> czajkowski: tis easy, in terminal type thunderbird -safe-mode
[11:55] <oimon> brobostigon, http://gregcor.com/2011/05/07/fix-dual-monitors-in-gnome-3-aka-my-workspaces-are-broken/ however i may keep the current setting to keep thunderbird always on the right workspace
[11:55] <brobostigon> oimon: ok, interesting,
[11:56] <daubers> urgh, academics :(
[12:01] <CaMason> Need some help. I'm trying to connect to a ubuntu server (via teamviewer, office network) which is responding to ping, but not SSH or samba. It's 300 miles away and there are noobs at the other end
[12:01] <ali1234> CaMason: poke popey until he finishes making trublr
[12:01] <CaMason> They had a power cut and the machine isn't coming up properly
[12:02] <ali1234> so what state is it in?
[12:02] <ali1234> it's probably doing an extremely long disk check?
[12:02] <CaMason> how can I tell?
[12:02] <ali1234> you can't
[12:03] <ali1234> you have to ask the people who can actually see it
[12:03] <CaMason> it's apparently been powered on all morning
[12:03] <ali1234> "what's on the screen"
[12:03] <CaMason> There's no screen on it. Asking them to hook one up now
[12:04] <CaMason> which leads me to another topic... why are IP KVMs so damn expensive??
[12:04] <daubers> CaMason: IPMI in motherboards is your friend
[12:07] <CaMason> I'm amazed that there isn't a common low-level basic KVM system on motherboards
[12:08] <daubers> CaMason: That's what IPMI is supposed to be
[12:09] <ali1234> hmm the sum of the square of a normalised signal always = the number of samples
[12:10] <ali1234> i didn't expect that
[12:10] <ali1234> i suppose it makes sense, when you think about it
[12:10] <mattt> afternoon
[12:13] <oimon> i've discovered that i never visit a browser bookmark after bookmarking a site
[12:36] <czajkowski> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/187985
[12:36] <jpds> oimon: Clearly wasn't a very good book.
[12:38] <ali1234> czajkowski: yeah, unity sucks, we know :)
[12:39] <jpds> ali1234: No, it does not.
[12:43] <czajkowski> ali1234: it doesnt and mind your language
[13:18] <mrevell> davmor2, bigcalm: I asked at the hotel about co-working. I said £75 per day was a bit too much and asked if they could do us a deal. They said they could do it for £30 per person, which includes lunch and coffees/teas throughout the day. I'm not sure that's going to work for me, particularly when Light House is around a tenner including lunch and drinks.
[13:19] <davmor2> mrevell: no that's still a bit steep
[13:20] <mrevell> davmor2, It's also more than £75, if there's more than two of us, so it seemed a bit back to front.
[13:21] <gordonjcp> kind of defeats the purpose, eh
[13:21] <mrevell> yeah, weird
[13:21] <gordonjcp> the thought occurs that they're going to be doing naff all trade during a midweek day *anyway*
[13:22] <davmor2> mrevell: indeed, I think it was more of a...£30 is as cheap as we could go per person,  oh well that's cheaper than 75 bargain
[13:22] <gordonjcp> that they've got a couple of people sitting fairly visibly in their cafe at all will help trade
[13:22] <mrevell> :)
[13:22] <gordonjcp> never mind that you're actually going to be buying stuff
[13:22] <popey> tell them you'll blog about it on planet ubuntu ☺
[13:25] <mrevell> heh
[13:27] <davmor2> http://mhall119.com/2012/02/the-many-sides-of-jono-bacon/ ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
[13:29] <bigcalm> mrevell: thanks for looking into it. The Lighthouse will continue to get our coffee money for a while yet
[13:29] <davmor2> mrevell, bigcalm: +1
[13:31] <bigcalm> Depending upon the weather, will wear thermals next week ;)
[13:31] <davmor2> bigcalm: Thermals are the way forward for cold days at the lighthouse I fear
[13:32]  * popey wonders if anything is happening with office space in Farnham
[13:32]  * popey tickles AlanBell and TheOpenSourcerer 
[13:34] <AlanBell> ooh that tickles
[13:40] <AlanBell> popey: the one that we were half considering is under offer, someone moving in soon, but there are others out there
[13:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> There are lots of offices in Farnham
[13:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> I was just looking at the For Let signs.
[13:45] <Myrtti> hire me, I can make coffee and fetch sandwiches
[13:46] <Myrtti> I can actually make sandwiches too
[13:47] <davmor2> Myrtti: but only in sudo mode right?
[13:47] <Myrtti> sudo mode is reserved for making donuts
[13:47] <Myrtti> sandwiches are easier, all you need for that is a nice smile
[13:48] <davmor2> Myrtti: Hmmmm donuts
[13:49] <Myrtti> I got chocolate and a card from my Valentine, I returned the gesture with donuts
[13:49] <Myrtti> http://www.flickr.com/photos/myrtti/6878005605/
[13:51] <AlanBell> oh wow
[13:52] <davmor2> nice
[13:53]  * AlanBell adds "make donuts" to job specification
[13:53] <gord> i think that picture has given me diabetes.
[13:53] <popey> lol
[13:55] <Myrtti> oi!
[13:55] <Myrtti> it's not that bad, if eaten in moderation
[13:55] <Myrtti> we still have plenty left
[13:55] <popey> how did the steak and ale pie turn out?
[13:56] <Myrtti> lovely :-)
[13:57] <Myrtti> still have some of the ale left as there obviously aren't any 400ml bottles in the state monopoly store and neither of us are too keen on drinking it as is
[14:02] <daubers> "state monopoly store"? Is it run by this man http://buycashflowproperties.escapeartist.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/monopoly_man.jpg ?
[14:02] <gord> note to self, must photoshop mr monopoly moustache and top hat on to jason smith.
[14:03] <daubers> heh
[14:03] <gord> he won the real money monopoly game we played in budapest because he's some sort of monopoly savant
[14:04] <Myrtti> daubers: http://alko.fi/frontpage
[14:05] <gordonjcp> gord: lol
[14:06] <daubers> Myrtti: I see....
[14:11] <jacobw> lol @ 'monopoly savant'
[14:11] <Myrtti> ie. all ales are over 4.7%, so to get ale we had to go to Alko.
[14:11] <daubers> right
[14:11] <daubers> How strange
[14:16] <Myrtti> I personally find it strager to have vodka and stuff in a supermarket
[14:17] <Myrtti> but things just work different
[14:23] <daubers> Yup
[14:23] <daubers> and different is good, unless you're an old grouchy so and so
[14:26] <Seeker`> Myrtti: can i have a sandwich?
[14:27] <Myrtti> sure
[14:27] <Seeker`> \o/
[14:27] <Seeker`> nomnomnom
[14:30] <DJones> Ooh, free chocolates from a supplier :)
[14:31]  * DJones hides the http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LsPO8pkSqmE/TbPmYv2p_QI/AAAAAAAAB1g/0tfx03exTgk/s1600/twisted.jpg from christel 
[14:32] <davmor2> Myrtti: moderation is 50 a day instead of a 100 right?
[14:36] <christel> oh my!
[14:36] <Myrtti> davmor2: I made only 20 edible ones
[14:37] <Myrtti> my first ever attempt to make donuts without any help
[14:37] <davmor2> Myrtti: when you say help do you actually mean adult supervision :D
[14:38] <davmor2> Myrtti: to be fair they do look yummy
[14:40] <Myrtti> davmor2: well I usually do... um. Did try out new things with in mums supervision even as an adult, so I suppose yeah.
[14:40] <Myrtti> davmor2: thanks.
[15:16] <gord> huh, the game double fine are producing (big game studio) based on kickstarter donations is getting mac and linux releases, neat
[15:24] <directhex> when someone hands you $1.9m, it's hard to say no to their little pleas
[15:25] <popey> i thought it was planned to be cross platform from the start?
[15:26] <gord> right, but this isn't an indie company, this is a biiig company, they very rarely go near linux
[15:26] <gord> these guys make proper games
[15:28] <directhex> gord, thing is, decision on target platforms is down to the publisher, not the developer. if the publisher says "don't spend any time on linux" they won't. if they say "fine, linux, but we're not paying for it" then generally they won't unless they're nerds or it's an easy port. in this case, the publisher (i.e. the people giving the advance to pay for development) is *us*.
[15:29] <directhex> so when the comments page and tim's twitter mentions list is filled with cross-platform requests, and the game is massively overfunded, then they have the resources to do stuff(tm)
[15:29] <directhex> popey, the $400k target was for osx and win32. now it's osx, win32, linux, ios, and android
[15:30] <popey> blimey
[15:31] <gord> hum, next osx is going to sign applications, non verified ones get blocked
[15:31] <directhex> gord, blocked, with a big warning to drop the app in the trash!
[15:32] <daubers> gord: I noticed they where unsubtle about the app name controlling all that
[15:38] <gordonjcp> aargh
[15:39] <gordonjcp> anyone here particularly enthusiastic about mapping software?
[15:40] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: someone in -ie is
[15:40] <gordonjcp> so we've sold this mapping solution to a university for their security guys, that plots where they are based on GPS data
[15:40] <gordonjcp> from their radios
[15:41] <AlanBell> http://www.metro.co.uk/tech/866510-ulysses-riddle-solved-how-to-cross-dublin-without-passing-a-pub
[15:41] <gordonjcp> two grand's worth of software, list of bugs that reads like the health inspector's report on a pub toilet, very little response to reports of even the worst bugs, and now it appears that the company supplying it no longer support it
[15:42] <gordonjcp> it can't be *that* hard
[15:42] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: nice
[15:43] <AlanBell> coordinate transforms from GPS to whatever the map wants is probably not very hard for a limited area
[15:45] <ali1234> bespoke mapping software is awful
[15:46] <ali1234> it's pretty much the perfect example of how to lock customers into an endless upgrade cycle
[15:47] <directhex> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Getting_The_Source
[15:47] <directhex> coordinate transform is basically all openstreetmap does.
[15:47] <ali1234> yeah that part is trivially easy
[15:48] <ali1234> the hard part is cracking custom protocols used between the GPS units and the proprietary database software that they run everything off
[15:51] <ali1234> if you are ucky you will only need to brute for a MSSQL password to access the data... and then figure out how their schema works
[15:54] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: osmgpsmap - solved problem
[15:55] <AlanBell> indeed, what is the unsolved part?
[15:55] <gordonjcp> ali1234: this expensive software we have is written in a mixture of C#, Access and Crystal Reports
[15:55] <ali1234> sounds familiar
[15:56] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: getting the data off the radios taking into account Motorola's proprietary communications protocols (which might have been cracked by someone - as an employee of a Motorola dealer I certainly couldn't say I've looked at them)
[15:56] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: and making a UI that doesn't suck elephants through incredibly fine gauze
[15:57] <ali1234> crack that database
[15:57] <AlanBell> yeah, so the protocol is just undocumented and odd rather than encrytped right?
[15:58]  * daubers wonders how many companies have these radios and whether such a system would be worth some pennies to certain undesirable market sectors
[15:59] <ali1234> they all have different radios
[15:59] <ali1234> the software is always awful thugh
[15:59] <ali1234> because there is no way to replace it
[15:59] <CTtechguy> anyone here use GoDaddy for web hosting?
[16:05] <ali1234> to give an example, when i finally got into the database there was over 300 different tables in the schema
[16:06] <ali1234> to get the current position of a unit only involved two of them
[16:06] <gordonjcp> ali1234: done, trivially easy
[16:06] <ali1234> but there was so much duplication that you could get it from any of about five tables
[16:06] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: it's undocumented without signing a hefty NDA and forking over seven grand
[16:07] <ali1234> that also sounds familiar
[16:07] <gordonjcp> ali1234: this uses an .mdb for each table
[16:07] <gordonjcp> no unique IDs, no constraints, no concept of keys at all actually
[16:07] <ali1234> we were also offer access to an API for £2000 per year per seat
[16:07] <ali1234> without documentation though
[16:07] <ali1234> if you wanted to use the API, you had to pay the developer to write the code that accessed the API
[16:08] <gordonjcp> it's just a case of firing bytes over a network scoket
[16:08] <ali1234> and then pay for access to the API on top of that
[16:08] <gordonjcp> *socket
[16:08] <gordonjcp> the code for handling text messages over the radios might, uh
[16:08] <ali1234> is it SMS based?
[16:08] <gordonjcp> might be already known outside the NDA if not exactly public knowledge
[16:09] <gordonjcp> no
[16:09] <gordonjcp> it's DMR kit
[16:09] <ali1234> Ok
[16:10] <gordonjcp> but when you plug a radio into a computer via the USB cable it just shows up as an RNDIS device
[16:10] <gordonjcp> ironically it's only since they went to the propietary Microsoft-driven RNDIS support that Linux can talk to the radios
[16:10] <gordonjcp> 'cos ACM didn't work at all
[16:11] <ali1234> well it will be sending some binary protocol over UDP i expect
[16:14] <mrevell> Hey popey, czajkowski's desktop is broken. She cannot log in. She is in a terminal (ctrl-alt-f1). She wants me to ask you how she gets from there back to her desktop. Please don't ask me to send her to "letmegooglethatforyou.com" :)
[16:14] <gordonjcp> ctrl-alt-f7 doesn't do it?
[16:14] <gordonjcp> ali1234: yeah exactly
[16:16] <AlanBell> mrevell: does "sudo service lightdm restart" do it?
[16:16] <mrevell> gordonjcp, Sadly not.
[16:16] <mrevell> AlanBell, Trying now!
[16:16] <mrevell> nope
[16:16] <mrevell> :(
[16:17] <AlanBell> so no login screen at all, no chance to pick unity2d?
[16:17] <ali1234> reboot the computer?
[16:17] <mrevell> ali1234, She's tried a few times but no luck.
[16:17] <ali1234> consolt the Xorg.0.log
[16:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> Try Ubuntu 10.10?
[16:18] <ali1234> yeah basically, don't use +1 if you don't know what you are doing
[16:18] <davmor2> mrevell: what does dpkg -l libnux say?
[16:19] <ali1234> does the greeter rely on libnux?
[16:19] <mrevell> davmor2, no package
[16:20] <ali1234> !info libnux
[16:20] <mrevell> czajkowski is running precise
[16:20] <davmor2> mrevell: how about dpkg -l libnux*
[16:20] <ali1234> !info libnux-2.0
[16:20] <ali1234> !info libnux-2.0-dev
[16:20] <ali1234> oh come on
[16:20] <ali1234> !info libnux-2.0-dev precise
[16:21] <ali1234> !info libnux-2.0-0 precise
[16:22] <ali1234> i doubt that is the problem though
[16:22] <ali1234> if you don't even get a greeter it means X is broken
[16:22] <davmor2> ali1234: stop please it is one of the many missing packages currently
[16:22] <ali1234> again, does the greeter rely on libnux?
[16:23] <mrevell> czajkowski gets the greeter but the cog doesn't given her unity3d any more, only 2d and that comes up with a "failed to load" error.
[16:23] <davmor2> mrevell: so she has upgraded very recently then yes?
[16:23] <mrevell> czajkowski, two hours ago
[16:24] <davmor2> mrevell: she is missing sesions for gnome/unity  she'll need to wait till they get fixed and dist-upgrade again
[16:24] <Cameron_> hi, AlanBell?
[16:24] <Cameron_> are you online
[16:25] <mrevell> davmor2, Ah, thanks. Is there no way to get from where she is now to the desktop without waiting for that fix? She has a train journey coming up in an hour :)
[16:25] <ali1234> mrevell: install gnome or xfce or kde
[16:26] <davmor2> mrevell: no unity or unity-core till the update comes through,  gord  maybe able to offer an solution
[16:26] <mrevell> Thanks all for your suggestions and help :)
[16:28] <davmor2> ali1234: sorry I was trying to figure out if she had dist-upgraded in which case that package which was the easiest to type was one of the missing ones so it had nothing to do with the issue as such it just answered if she had done the dist-upgrade or not
[16:29] <davmor2> ali1234: it then explained the issue
[16:29] <davmor2> gord: help czajkowski go on you know you want to :)
[16:30] <gord> amd64 isn't built yet
[16:31] <davmor2> gord: so shouldn't be long then
[16:31] <gord> oh wait no, it is
[16:33] <mrevell> gord, any idea when she'll be able to do an update?
[16:34] <gord> mrevell, now?
[16:34] <davmor2> mrevell: I'm just checking locally now
[16:34] <gord> unity 5.4 is in main
[16:34] <mrevell> Ah, thanks :) I'll let her know.
[16:34] <gord> she should be using archive.ubuntu.com however, other mirrors will be slow
[16:35] <jpds> gord: gb.archive updates just fine.
[16:35] <davmor2> jpds: I still have hold out here
[16:36] <gord> jpds, what i'm saying is that lol.mylocaluniversity.omgthefastest is generally a bad mirror to be on ;)
[16:36] <gord> for dev releases anyway
[16:40] <czajkowski> no updates for me
[16:42] <davmor2> czajkowski: what do you get if you type sudo apt-get install unity-services
[16:42] <AlanBell> Cameron_: sure, I am always online, ask and I will get back to you
[16:42] <Cameron_> ok thank you
[16:42] <Cameron_> i'll brb
[16:42] <czajkowski> nothing to update
[16:43] <davmor2> czajkowski: what do you get if you type sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop (always a favourite)
[16:45] <Adriannom> hi.  on xubuntu 11.10 i've installed compiz, but even though i've updated /etc/xdg/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-session.xml to use compiz it just doesn't.  any ideas where i can go from here?
[16:45] <czajkowski> error
[16:46] <czajkowski> following packages have dependencies
[16:46] <czajkowski> unity 2-d
[16:46] <czajkowski> but it is not going to be installed
[16:46] <czajkowski> you have held broken packages
[16:47] <gord> czajkowski, you don't have any more dodgy ppa's enabled do you?
[16:47] <czajkowski> bope
[16:47] <czajkowski> right just got the power indicator fix in
[16:49] <gord> apt-get -f install should at least try and fix things
[16:50] <czajkowski> nothing to upgrade
[16:51] <Adriannom> anyone?
[16:51] <davmor2> czajkowski: try sudo apt-get -f install ubuntu-desktop
[16:51] <czajkowski> gona be a long train back
[16:52] <czajkowski> same eror as before
[16:52] <Adriannom> i would just do compiz --replace but it says it can't do that cause the window manager is already loaded
[16:53] <davmor2> czajkowski: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get -f install ubuntu-desktop
[16:53] <Adriannom> then crashes
[16:54] <davmor2> Adriannom: you might want to ask on the #xubuntu channel if no one here can help
[16:54] <Adriannom> i'm in like, every channel ;)
[16:54] <Adriannom> but thanks
[16:55] <davmor2> czajkowski: ps in future use update manager and if you see unchecked boxes don't upgrade yet till the boxes get checked :)
[16:55] <czajkowski> :s
[16:57] <czajkowski> qsame errors
[16:57] <czajkowski> have to go now
[16:57] <davmor2> czajkowski: just keep trying it till it works
[16:58] <czajkowski> train now
[16:59] <davmor2> czajkowski: when you get back home then :(
[16:59] <czajkowski>  /away train
[17:03] <czajkowski> p
[17:06] <ali1234> when was windows 7 released?
[17:06] <ali1234> october 2009
[17:06] <ali1234> hmm
[17:07] <MartijnVdS> Maybe it was supposed to be Windows '07 ;)
[17:08] <Adriannom> hehe
[17:09] <ali1234> just looking at the OS stats on browser watch
[17:09] <ali1234> browser watch? what is that? i just made it up totally
[17:09] <ali1234> i meant w3 of course
[17:25] <Cameron_> alanbell, hi, i need to reinstall the driver for ubuntu from the terminal again -.- lol, any chance you have like a conversation log of when we went through it before?
[17:29] <czajkowski> yay for tethering and IRC¬
[17:35] <bigcalm> Yay for the Pendolino trains. Have you got yourself a table?
[17:36] <czajkowski> yup
[17:36] <bigcalm> Facing forwards or backwards?
[17:37] <bigcalm> We're going this way, that way, forwards and backwards
[17:38] <czajkowski> forwards
[17:42]  * CTtechguy has been on a train :/
[17:45]  * czajkowski strangles gord
[17:54] <davmor2> czajkowski: Don't make me come down there and tickle you, you put gord down now!
[17:55] <czajkowski> on the train
[17:55] <czajkowski> vanished from there
[17:56] <davmor2> czajkowski: I meant the t'interweb connection
[17:58] <davmor2> hey gord still no unity-services, unity-common, unity, libunity-core, libnux-2.0-common, libnux-2.0, gnome-session-common or gnome session :(
[17:59] <popey> Good evening all
[18:00] <Pendulum> CTtechguy: what is someone at UNH doing in Ubuntu UK?
[18:02] <CTtechguy> Pendulum: hanging out with you crazy UK people
[18:02]  * Pendulum is at the other end of CT
[18:02] <czajkowski> lol
[18:02] <Pendulum> I just so rarely find anyone else in this state in Ubuntu channels that to find you in the channel for another country was a bit surprising
[18:02] <gord> davmor2, i don't know what you expect me to do ;) its published on i386, not nintendo 64
[18:02] <gord> i mean amd 64
[18:02] <MartijnVdS> Pendulum: maybe there are only 4 people in the state? ;)
[18:03] <davmor2> gord: ah cool that'll be why I'm on 64bit
[18:03] <davmor2> czajkowski: what arch you on?
[18:03] <bigcalm> davmor2: Hayley and I are going to the Imperial tonight. I get my chinese in the end!
[18:04]  * CTtechguy thought he could hide in the channel...lol guess noot
[18:04] <czajkowski> davmor2: 64 bit
[18:05] <Pendulum> bigcalm: recovered from last night, then? ;)
[18:05] <davmor2> czajkowski: packages haven't finished building yet, so gord gets to blame LP that'll be you then mrs :P
[18:05] <Pendulum> CTtechguy: tough luck ;)
[18:06] <bigcalm> Table booked, so easy, yay
[18:06] <CTtechguy> lol time for a tor
[18:06] <bigcalm> Pendulum: just about. I was surprised that I ate everything I ordered, and half of czajkowski's nan bread
[18:07] <Pendulum> haha
[18:07] <bigcalm> That garlic bread was good, will order it if I find myself there again
[18:08] <Pendulum> CTtechguy: you might want to take your state out of your name, too. I'd already guessed that part, just happened to notice the newhaven.edu when looking at something in scrollback. Then I had to comment as I've got 2 cousins currently students there and several friends who are graduates.
[18:14] <CTtechguy> Pendulum: it's not a big deal trust me
[18:15] <davmor2> bigcalm: I think you are an anti-vampire in that you love garlic the same way they hate it :D
[18:16] <christel> :o
[18:17] <christel> mmmgarlic
[18:18] <bigcalm> Oh yeah, shame about the Lighthouse...
[18:18] <bigcalm> davmor2: I also love steak ;)
[18:19] <davmor2> I'm guessing not through the heart though :D
[18:20] <czajkowski> ok so latest updates means I get to login
[18:21] <czajkowski> but then kinda hanfgs
[18:21] <czajkowski> see a black screen and a mouse pointer
[18:21] <czajkowski> but looks like am making progress
[18:21] <davmor2> czajkowski: is that installing ubuntu-desktop again?
[18:21] <czajkowski> will try
[18:23] <daftykins> D:
[18:23] <daftykins> mega latency issues ssh'ing home >_<
[18:24] <dwatkins> yeah, my internets are very slow too daftykins (BT)
[18:25] <daftykins> i'm on my neighbours connection, they kindly offered - not sure who they're with
[18:25] <daftykins> lets see
[18:25] <dwatkins> http://btbusiness.custhelp.com/app/service_status shows 2 issues, no idea if they're related
[18:27] <daftykins> ah yes i am on BT
[19:07] <czajkowski> whoo all back to normall
[19:08] <hamitron> "back"? ;/
[19:10] <daftykins> she had a surprise i think
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> a friday evening surprise?
[19:14] <daftykins> i guess so!
[19:15] <davmor2> czajkowski: you'll never be normal my dear you'll always be "Special" :)
[19:23] <davmor2> gord: what is with the BRIGHT!!!!!!! blue notification bubbles?
[19:24]  * davmor2 wonders if it got it's colour from the epiphany logo and just keep it for the others
[19:32] <Cameron_> AlanBell, can you tell me when you're here please
[19:33]  * AlanBell returns
[19:33] <AlanBell> full of food
[19:33] <Cameron_> oh hello
[19:33] <Cameron_> i need to reinstall the driver for ubuntu from the terminal again -.- lol, any chance you have like a conversation log of when we went through it before?
[19:33] <AlanBell> driver for what?
[19:40] <AlanBell> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/01/22/%23ubuntu.txt appears to be when I last spoke to you the most
[19:40] <AlanBell> [15:00] <AlanBell> Cameron|iPad: I think "sudo apt-get install fglrx" might do it
[19:43] <AlanBell> yay, new unity is out
[19:44] <AlanBell> new apps lens, wonder if it is any good now
[19:44] <davmor2> AlanBell: get preped for this though http://ubuntuone.com/7LFbNGGiQD0taHsHv7TOPT
[19:45] <AlanBell> woah
[19:45] <AlanBell> is that intentional?
[19:45] <davmor2> possibly not
[19:45] <davmor2> I didn't do it lets put it that way :)
[19:45] <AlanBell> still haven't ditched the badly implemented shadow that looks like it is related to the top panel :(
[19:46] <AlanBell> ok, upgrade installed, lets see if I can get unity3d to start now
[19:47] <AlanBell> I broke it a couple of days ago and couldn't be bothered to fix it
[19:49] <davmor2> AlanBell: in the hud type Ubuntu Help, which is available via the desktop menu and what do you get?
[19:50] <AlanBell> well not sure I have got a desktop yet
[19:51] <AlanBell> not looking good :/ black screen with a mouse cursor
[19:52] <davmor2> AlanBell: give it a second
[19:52] <davmor2> I got that too
[19:52] <AlanBell> hdd activity still
[19:52] <AlanBell> bother, nothing
[19:53] <davmor2> gord: I got to say the hud is a lot faster than it was but is still as comical with it's fuzzy matching
[19:53] <AlanBell> does it still take options away if you get them right?
[19:53] <davmor2> AlanBell: check you have the magic package of ubuntu-desktop
[19:54] <AlanBell> I just did, already the latest version
[19:54] <davmor2> AlanBell: nope I just typed in enable wireless and it's there which is exactly as it is
[19:55] <davmor2> AlanBell: it also gave me connect to hidden network and create a new network
[20:05] <zleap> wow http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/index.html
[20:05] <zleap> advert for unity 3.5 :)
[20:05] <AlanBell> guest login doesn't work, just gives me the wallpaper with a mouse cursor
[20:07] <AlanBell> top tip, when logged into a broken laptop using ssh -X from another computer, don't run untity --replace and expect it to use :0 on the remote end
[20:07] <zleap> or is that a different unity
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: or set DISPLAY before trying
[20:17] <AlanBell> yeah, well I know that *now*
[20:17] <AlanBell> unity, y u no start?
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: gord's fault
[20:19] <AlanBell> o hai there most of a desktop, nice to see you again
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> windowmaker  --replace&
[20:41] <jacobw> evening
[20:42] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/846369
[20:42] <AlanBell> any opinions on what that might be?
[20:43] <AlanBell> that is the output of unity --verbose --log unity.log
[20:43] <jacobw> the libraries are in your home dir?
[20:43] <AlanBell> I really don't know
[20:43] <AlanBell> well, no they are not
[20:44] <jacobw> i guess you try running a find for the basenames to see if they exist at some other place in the filesystem
[20:44] <AlanBell> but why is it looking there, I deleted /home/alan/.compiz-1
[20:44] <AlanBell> I don't know what the glib build stuff is relating to either
[20:46] <AlanBell> the plugins are in /usr/lib/compiz
[20:48] <jacobw> make a symlink .compiz-1 → /usr/lib/compiz
[20:48] <jacobw> i don't know how compiz knows where its libraries are
[20:48] <jacobw> but perhaps if you can start it, it'll be easier to find out
[20:49] <AlanBell> I just made a new user called testuser and did the same thing http://paste.ubuntu.com/846381
[20:49] <AlanBell> I guess it looks for overrides in ~/.compiz-1
[20:50] <AlanBell> I have tried removing compiz-core and reinstalling from there, I think the glib stuff is the problem but I have no idea what that means or where to start with it
[20:52] <davmor2> Moo
[20:52] <zleap> moo
[20:52] <davmor2> czajkowski: how was your journey home
[20:54] <czajkowski> davmor2: no bad
[20:56] <davmor2> czajkowski: good good
[21:00] <czajkowski> am pooped
[21:01] <davmor2> czajkowski: go to sleep
[21:01] <CTtechguy> sleep?  it's Friday night!!
[21:02] <davmor2> CTtechguy: it's her first week at canonical trust me she needs it
[21:03] <CTtechguy> ohh Congrats czajkowski I did not know
[21:04] <AlanBell> okies I have a broken glib in /usr/local/share/glib-2.0
[21:04] <AlanBell> can I just delete stuff in /usr/local/share?
[21:04] <jacobw> you can move it somewhere else
[21:05] <djbenny> evening
[21:05] <AlanBell> good plan
[21:07] <czajkowski> davmor2: aye gonna watch some tv in bed
[21:07] <czajkowski> too tired for dinner
[21:07] <czajkowski>  nn
[21:08] <davmor2> nn czajkowski
[21:08] <gord> AlanBell, deleting/moving anything in /usr is a really really bad idea
[21:08] <gord> especially glib
[21:11] <AlanBell> gord: in /usr/local?
[21:11] <Cameron_> ah thank you AlanBell
[21:12] <Cameron_> sorry for such a slow reply lol
[21:12] <gord> AlanBell, depends why you have things in /usr/local
[21:12] <MooDoo> hello all
[21:13] <AlanBell> gord: well I may have been compiling some unity stuff
[21:13] <AlanBell> but now I want the new stuff from the repos to work
[21:19]  * popey tickles cking 
[21:19] <cking> hiya popey
[21:23] <djbenny> hey
[21:24] <jacobw> hi benny
[21:33] <AlanBell> oh bother :(
[21:34] <AlanBell> I think I do have the right version of glib running, 2.31.16
[21:34] <popey> wassup?
[21:34] <AlanBell> broke unity3d quite hard :(
[21:35] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/846369
[21:35] <AlanBell> doesn't start for a guest user or a fresh user I set up
[21:35] <ali1234> i don't see anything unusual in that paste
[21:36] <ali1234> GLib errors are very common and don't usually stop a program from running
[21:36] <ali1234> for example, i get about 100 of them whenever i run any gtk program from the terminal
[21:36] <ali1234> and the debugging stuf is just... debugging stuff
[21:37] <AlanBell> oh ok
[21:37] <AlanBell> any suggestions on what to do?
[21:38] <ali1234> report a bug
[21:38] <ali1234> then wait for fixes on monday
[21:40] <ali1234> and in future, never run updates on friday afternoon
[21:41] <AlanBell> this has been broken for a few days, I was hoping the update today would fix it, but it didn't
[21:41] <ali1234> it's probably something you've done then
[21:42] <AlanBell> yup
[21:42] <ali1234> so what have you done?
[21:43] <ali1234> have you tried deleting /usr/local yet?
[21:43] <AlanBell> some of it
[21:44] <ali1234> not good enough. move the whole thing
[21:44] <AlanBell> anything that looked like it might be something related to unity or glib
[21:44] <AlanBell> ok
[21:54] <AlanBell> still no joy. when I run a guest user session it seems compiz starts and I can use compiz enhanced zoom with super+mousewheel which isn't a default setting
[21:55] <AlanBell> the unity plugin doesn't load though, it is as if there is a set of compiz defaults somewhere that is wrong
[21:55] <ali1234> i don't really see how that is possible... but maybe
[21:55] <popey> zoom is a default setting
[21:55] <ali1234> yeah i thought it was too
[21:55] <ali1234> it's only disabled if you use unity because it clashes horribly
[21:55] <popey> (I have it enabled on both of my computers and never manually addit it)
[21:56] <ali1234> wait hang on
[21:56] <ali1234> it works here
[21:56] <AlanBell> oh, I always have to set the bindings for it because unity nicks super
[21:56] <ali1234> so it doesn't clash any more
[21:56] <ali1234> good stuff
[21:56] <ali1234> of course holding down super blocks your view with the silly keyboard help thing
[21:56] <ali1234> but other than that it works
[21:56] <AlanBell> yeah, I turn that off
[21:57] <ali1234> it seems to even work correctly with multiple monitors now
[21:57] <ali1234> how do i prevent super from revealing the launcher?
[21:58] <AlanBell> it is one of the settings for the unity plugin
[21:58] <ali1234> great
[22:00]  * AlanBell grabs a daily live cd
[22:01] <popey> bug 932718
[22:02] <popey> bug 925215
[22:02] <ali1234> shouldn't that be a design bug?
[22:04] <ali1234> well i'm glad to see ezoom back anyway
[22:04] <ali1234> it's the only reason to use a composited desktop
[22:04] <ali1234> without it, you're just making my computer slower for no reason
[22:04] <AlanBell> top tip, go to the mouse position polling plugin and set it to 1
[22:04] <ali1234> what does that do?
[22:04] <popey> i dont touch compiz settings
[22:05] <AlanBell> makes ezoom panning update every frame and look smooth
[22:05] <ali1234> i just set "key to show launcher" to none
[22:05] <AlanBell> rather than pointlessly waiting 40ms to update
[22:05] <ali1234> ezoom is already smooth enough
[22:05] <AlanBell> there is no performance impact on making it smoother
[22:05] <ali1234> ok then
[22:05] <AlanBell> give it a go, I have submitted a patch to set it to be the default
[22:06] <ali1234> doesn't make much difference here
[22:06] <ali1234> i assume 40 = 40 msec
[22:06] <AlanBell> anything under 15ms would be an update every frame, but apparently because canonical made some changes to compiz and the gtk mainloop there is no performance difference now
[22:07] <popey> "canonical made some changes" to?
[22:07] <ali1234> compiz can't go higher than 30 FPS on nvidia
[22:07] <AlanBell> try setting it to something big to make the difference obvious
[22:07] <popey> oh, to compiz
[22:07] <popey> you do know the compiz maintainer works for us?
[22:07] <AlanBell> popey: to compiz
[22:08] <AlanBell> so why do the people in #compiz hate canonical?
[22:08] <ali1234> because canonical pays to get their bugs fixed with priority?
[22:09] <AlanBell> well the impression I got was that they were very disappointed that canonical broke a load of stuff, the mainloop changes were a bad thing, unity is buggy, the dependency problems in unity between cube and wall are because unity broke it etc. etc.
[22:10] <ali1234> yeah sounds about right
[22:10] <ali1234> compiz was pretty good until it became "the thing that makes unity work"
[22:10] <AlanBell> and canonical have made no visible contribution or fixes to compiz, other than unity which is just for ubuntu
[22:11] <ali1234> in particular, the version of compiz that accompanied the unity release in natty had several serious regressions
[22:11] <AlanBell> by the sound of it they have basically given up on the compiz that ubuntu is using and they are going to go play with wayland instead
[22:11] <gord> pretty much all the fixes and work on compiz these days is canonical sponsored, atm we have three guys working on compiz alone, not unity
[22:12] <AlanBell> yeah, I may have come across some pretty grumpy compiz people
[22:12] <gord> most people stopped working on compiz a long time ago, with gnome using mutter, kde using kwin4 and unity using (at the time) mutter, compiz was all set to die
[22:12] <AlanBell> soreau, is that a canonical person?
[22:13] <gord> no idea, i know real names not internet made up names
[22:13] <AlanBell> Scott Moreau
[22:14] <gord> don't think so
[22:19] <AlanBell> compiz is great
[22:19] <ali1234> meh, it's ok
[22:19] <ali1234> has some real problems with window focussing
[22:19] <AlanBell> ok, the concept of using openGL to do an accellerated desktop with bling and fastness is great
[22:20] <ali1234> and it doesn't really work with the most commonly used and most advanced 3d driver
[22:20] <ali1234> do we have stats on what % of people are using nvidia driver?
[22:20] <ali1234> i bet it is the biggest share
[22:21] <ali1234> maybe even over 50%
[22:21] <gord> works fine with the nvidia driver here
[22:21] <ali1234> uh hu.
[22:22] <AlanBell> most laptops will be intel I would have thought
[22:22] <ali1234> except for bug 877778
[22:22] <ali1234> supposedly this only affects nvidia driver
[22:25] <ali1234> and then there's all the reports that you can't go above 30 fps with compiz and nvidia
[22:25] <ali1234> even though anything 2d is blazingly fast
[22:26] <ali1234> i'm now getting the actual windows as white rectangles and not just the previews
[22:26] <ali1234> dunno if it is related
[22:26] <ali1234> probably is. happens when i unminimize things
[22:27]  * AlanBell contemplates a reinstall
[22:28] <AlanBell> I have an encrypted home directory, is that going to break if I do a reinstall preserving home?
[22:28] <popey> not if you have a copy of the key
[22:28] <popey> the one it tells you to write down
[22:29] <popey> cryptfs-unwrap-passphrase   if you dont have it noted
[22:29] <popey> er eecryptfs-unwrap-passphrase
[22:29] <AlanBell> I did print it out somewhere
[22:29] <popey> oh jeez
[22:29] <popey> ecryptfs-unwrap-passphrase
[22:29] <popey> i hope not to have to go back to nvidia video cards
[22:30]  * AlanBell boots back into the hdd
[22:30] <AlanBell> I do like that lightdm now understands dual monitors
[22:30] <popey> what happens?
[22:31] <AlanBell> you get password prompt on one of them, ubuntu logo on the other, and both monitors filled at full resoltuion
[22:31] <AlanBell> before it did mirrored screens with vertical letterboxing
[22:31] <ali1234> not on nvidia driver it didn't
[22:32] <ali1234> on nvidia driver you get a totally normal login screen on the first monitor, and a black screen on the others
[22:33] <ali1234> you can move the mouse onto the other screens though, so there's no reason it couldn't draw something on them, in principle
[22:33] <AlanBell> ok, I have my ecryptfs password
[22:37] <AlanBell> right, reinstall time
[22:37] <AlanBell> backups are for wimps right?
[22:41] <AlanBell> looking good so far, found the magic nuke everything but /home option
[22:42] <AlanBell> oh sweet, I like the "take photo" thing in the installer
[22:47] <ali1234> i think my 20Q is broken
[22:47] <ali1234> i was thinking of toothpaste and it came up with "poop"
[22:47] <ali1234> apparently poop has writing on it
[22:52] <davmor2> So who'd of thunk that empathy would get better at dealing with irc
[22:54] <brobostigon> is it possible, to do an ubuntu install, to an sd card, from debian, and have that sd card install, behave and be like a normal hdd install, ?
[22:55] <gordonjcp> brobostigon: yes
[22:55] <brobostigon> gordonjcp: how ?
[22:55] <gordonjcp> assuming your SD card reader behaves like a normal disk
[22:55] <gordonjcp> and isn't for example like mine, which behaves as an MMC device
[22:55] <popey> debootstrap
[22:56] <brobostigon> gordonjcp: it does, yes.
[22:56] <ali1234> sd cards are quite unbelievably slow
[22:56] <ali1234> and also they wear out fast as well
[22:56] <ali1234> and get surprisingly hot too
[22:57] <AlanBell> brobostigon: I have a computer that boots from SD card
[22:57]  * brobostigon looks up popey's idea.
[22:57] <AlanBell> I just installed ubuntu server on it, works great
[22:57] <ali1234> but apart from those things it will behave no different than any other usb disk, if it is connected on usb
[22:57] <brobostigon> AlanBell: how did you do it? as popey suggested?
[22:57] <AlanBell> the computer boots from that and also has 3TB of spinning rust, which is mostly not spinning
[22:58] <ali1234> if it isn't connected on usb you will need to put the bootloader on a different device
[22:58] <brobostigon> ali1234: i intend to put grub onto the sd card, so solves that issue.
[22:59] <AlanBell> brobostigon: I think I basically just booted off a CD and installed to the USB
[22:59] <AlanBell> all that computer does is run irssi in screen, and accept backups from other places
[23:00] <brobostigon> AlanBell: ah, i will have to try that, i have done that for a haiku install.
[23:00] <AlanBell> when a backup comes in the hdd spins up
[23:00] <brobostigon> i see.
[23:00] <popey> why do you want to do it from debian?
[23:01] <popey> why not just put ubuntu iso on a usb stick, boot off that and install onto the sd from that?
[23:01] <brobostigon> popey: as that is the running system, i have here, and was my immediate thought. yes, that is mayb a better idea.
[23:03] <AlanBell> you can also do it with virtualbox or other virtualisation, boot off a .iso file and install to the sd if you can map that into something virtualbox thinks is a drive
[23:04] <popey> "if"
[23:04] <AlanBell> yeah, I have done that to a physical hdd before
[23:05] <AlanBell> pass through device or something i think it is called
[23:05] <popey> ahh
[23:05] <popey> usb stick seems easiest to me
[23:05] <brobostigon> i have done something similer, , ran a haiku .iso, in qemu, and opened parition access, and then let the live system, in qemu, to install to another partition.
[23:05] <AlanBell> agreed
[23:05] <brobostigon> agreed.
[23:06] <AlanBell> my reinstall is now restoring previously installed packages which sounds nice
[23:06] <brobostigon> i have 12.04 on live usb here, so that would work.
[23:09] <AlanBell> I might be wrong but I think my SD card writes a lot faster than it reads
[23:10] <brobostigon> and a class 10, should be even better,
[23:11] <AlanBell> yeah mine is a class 10
[23:11] <AlanBell> the class rating only applies to write speed
[23:11] <brobostigon> ah.
[23:12] <AlanBell> it is about how fast the camera/camcorder can fling data at it
[23:13] <gord> i had a class 6 sd card at one point, couldn't handle 720p mjpeg writing to it
[23:13] <brobostigon> AlanBell: ah, i thought it applied to both write and read,
[23:14] <AlanBell> I am open to being proved wrong about this
[23:14] <AlanBell> the class 10 card I am using has a "gosh has it written that whole ISO already or gone wrong" kind of speed to it
[23:15] <ali1234> class ratings on SD cards are pretty much worthless
[23:19] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
[23:20] <siamese> night
[23:20] <brobostigon> night siamese
[23:24] <jacobw> \o/ bones
[23:56] <AlanBell> yay, reinstall just finished
[23:57] <AlanBell> erk
[23:57] <AlanBell> error invalid arch independent elf magic
[23:57] <AlanBell> grub rescue>