| snap-l | brousch: Yeah, we've all moved to pycharm | 00:17 |
|---|---|---|
| snap-l | autocomplete FTW | 00:18 |
| snap-l | G'morning | 12:18 |
| rick_h | morn | 12:20 |
| Wolfger | Happy Friday | 12:56 |
| Wolfger | don't forget Penguicon "bring a friend" party tonight. With free-as-in-beer beer (I think) | 12:57 |
| brousch | eh? | 12:57 |
| mydogsnameisrudy | there's a party going on somewhere? | 12:58 |
| Wolfger | Dearborn | 12:59 |
| mydogsnameisrudy | oh heh to far | 12:59 |
| Wolfger | Penguicon is hosting a party at the hotel where the convention will be this year. | 12:59 |
| Wolfger | It's specifically aimed at getting people who haven't been to Penguicon to come out and get an idea what it's like. | 13:00 |
| Wolfger | So brousch, get out there and check it out :-) | 13:00 |
| brousch | too scary | 13:00 |
| brousch | http://www.penguicon.org/CMS/?page_id=216 | 13:01 |
| brousch | About: 404 | 13:01 |
| brousch | the about page should just redirect to the rules page | 13:04 |
| mydogsnameisrudy | hmm this party mostly programers? | 13:05 |
| brousch | i get the impression it's mostly wackos | 13:06 |
| mydogsnameisrudy | hmmm drag show lol | 13:07 |
| mydogsnameisrudy | yep i c | 13:07 |
| Wolfger | I resent being called a wacko | 13:17 |
| Wolfger | You will find virtually any (and every) flavor of geek at P-con | 13:19 |
| Wolfger | some of them are even too strange for me... | 13:19 |
| brousch | Wolfger: mostly wackos, you might fall into the non-wacko segment. might | 13:19 |
| Wolfger | doubt it :-) | 13:19 |
| brousch | not that there's anything wrong with that | 13:19 |
| Wolfger | I fly my freak flag(s) proudly | 13:20 |
| brousch | i heartily support your right to be a wacko | 13:20 |
| Wolfger | what about a Yakko or a Dot? | 13:21 |
| Wolfger | or Pinky and the Brain? | 13:21 |
| brousch | oh wow, the BBB sent me an urgent notice using my own email address. i'd better jump right on this | 13:21 |
| Wolfger | lol | 13:22 |
| brousch | omg. someone is complaining about their dealership with me | 13:23 |
| Wolfger | Something about the phrase "multiple life sentences" just screams "your legal system is completely FUBAR" | 13:25 |
| brousch | seems like one life sentence should be sufficient | 13:29 |
| Wolfger | you would think | 13:29 |
| brousch | is it just me, or do the "oldies" on this list seem overpriced? http://shop.oreilly.com/category/deals/oldies-but-goodies.do?imm_mid=07ed2a&cmp=em-orm-books-videos-oldies-goodies-short-elist | 13:30 |
| brousch | DNS and Bind from 6 years ago for $20? | 13:31 |
| brousch | for an ebook? | 13:31 |
| brousch | also 2 ruby books, no python? | 13:32 |
| snap-l | brousch: How many changes are you aware of in DNS? | 13:32 |
| snap-l | Outside of DNSSEC, not much has changed. :) | 13:32 |
| snap-l | and I'm not sure that's all that new. | 13:32 |
| brousch | hm, maybe you're right. it is $21 used on amazon | 13:34 |
| snap-l | brousch: I'd expect Wolfger to be fielding dealership complaints sooner than I'd expect you to be fielding them. :) | 13:42 |
| nullspace | just looked clojure syntax, all I can say is yikes | 14:42 |
| nullspace | I can read it but I think using it for anything complex is just going to hurt | 14:43 |
| snap-l | nullspace: ever played with Lisp? | 14:46 |
| snap-l | It's very similar. | 14:46 |
| jrwren | brousch: yes, everything on that list is overpriced | 14:49 |
| rick_h | heh, the fact that they half off new books for DoTD, give any UG 35% off the top means that books are just overpriced | 14:50 |
| jrwren | clojure is a lisp isn't it? | 14:53 |
| jrwren | its scheme for jvm, right? | 14:53 |
| jrwren | yup | 14:53 |
| jrwren | "Clojure is a dialect of Lisp," from clojure.org | 14:54 |
| snap-l | I don't think there's a "one true lisp" | 14:54 |
| jrwren | right, that is what I'm saying. | 14:54 |
| snap-l | It's like English | 14:54 |
| jrwren | its a lisp | 14:54 |
| jrwren | like scheme is a lisp | 14:54 |
| jrwren | like elisp is a lisp | 14:54 |
| jrwren | like common lisp is a lisp | 14:54 |
| snap-l | Like MIT Scheme is not like GNU Scheme is not like ... | 14:55 |
| jrwren | well you could argue that John McCarthy's 1960 paper defines the one true lisp | 14:55 |
| jrwren | exactly! MIT scheme would be > GNU Scheme :) | 14:56 |
| snap-l | Hah | 14:56 |
| snap-l | Just seems whenever someone creates a LISP interpreter, they also create a new dialect to go with it | 14:57 |
| snap-l | And we're not talking separate accents, but whole categories of slang. | 14:57 |
| jrwren | right | 14:58 |
| jrwren | and there are thousands, becuase its a project that 1/2 of all computer science students do at one point :p | 14:58 |
| snap-l | jrwren: truth | 14:58 |
| nullspace | snap-l: have yet to play with Lisp, though I am intrigued | 15:09 |
| nullspace | when I see a new language that I understand but I don't see the reason for why it's doing things in a certain way I think that there has to be a good reasona nd maybe a godo use for it | 15:11 |
| nullspace | otherwise why the hell was it created | 15:11 |
| snap-l | nullspace: the enduring languages have purposes | 15:12 |
| nullspace | except brainfuck, that's just there to screw with your head | 15:12 |
| snap-l | sometimes languages are just created as a programming exercise. | 15:12 |
| nullspace | I think I'll give clojure a spin through the first ten problems of project euler this weekend | 15:14 |
| _stink_ | and even within common lisp implementations, there are enough significant differences to be totally annoying. | 15:24 |
| _stink_ | especially with system interfacing stuff. | 15:24 |
| _stink_ | i like the competitive ecosystem... until i try to accomodate it. then i hate it. | 15:24 |
| snap-l | _stink_: ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ | 15:28 |
| jrwren | rick_h: did you see the nodejs video I retweeted? | 15:45 |
| jrwren | i LOLed a lot | 15:45 |
| rick_h | jrwren: will take a peek | 15:47 |
| brousch | i just created a custom django templatetag and corrected a django snippet. i think i am becoming assimilated | 15:57 |
| brousch | also, heroku is fun. `git push heroku master` and my updates are live | 16:00 |
| jrwren | rick_h: it was orig a jwz tweet if you can't find it | 16:11 |
| rick_h | jrwren: thanks, saw the tweet go by but didn't "understand" what it was so skipped by | 16:27 |
| snap-l | What the fuck | 16:28 |
| snap-l | Just discovered UNity has some keyboard shortcuts for tiling | 16:28 |
| snap-l | Accidentally hit CTRL-ALT-NUmpad 0 and my window went fullscreen | 16:28 |
| snap-l | CTRL-ALT-2,4,6,8 also move the window to that side | 16:29 |
| snap-l | Hell, the whole thing is boobytrapped. :) | 16:29 |
| snap-l | DBO: This is your doing!!!! | 16:29 |
| brousch | they're trying to make rick_h happy | 16:36 |
| rick_h | heh, not quite. anything + a number is a horrible shortcut | 16:36 |
| snap-l | Well, and it's only for a numberpad | 16:37 |
| rick_h | ?! | 16:37 |
| snap-l | so rick_h gets no love there either | 16:37 |
| rick_h | so doesn't work if you dont' have a numpad on your laptop? | 16:37 |
| rick_h | bah, wasted code imo | 16:37 |
| snap-l | Heh | 16:38 |
| rick_h | why do we have to have the most retarded setups for things? ugh! | 16:40 |
| snap-l | ? | 16:42 |
| rick_h | just getting annoyed at the way every little bit of code in the world we put together is strange and half working as #@$@#$@# | 16:44 |
| rick_h | having a ranty friday | 16:44 |
| ColonelPanic001 | o.o | 16:45 |
| rick_h | packages with buildout.cfg, but they don't work, then the README says to do this other thing, and rather than any sane test thing, find out we've built some magic https://launchpad.net/testrepository thing that this package uses | 16:48 |
| rick_h | heh, and I see this is written because we've got giant ass test suites that day a workday to run: http://rbtcollins.wordpress.com/2010/11/30/testrepository-iteration-for-python-projects/ | 16:49 |
| brousch | a whole day? | 16:49 |
| brousch | that's insane | 16:50 |
| rick_h | 4-6hrs | 16:50 |
| rick_h | it's why we run the damn things in ec2, it's fire/forget | 16:50 |
| brousch | this is crazy traffic to my work website. i led a grwebdev meeting on the 23rd but never mentioned my work at all. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/traffic_from_grwebdev_wtf.png | 16:56 |
| Wolfger | rick_h: no numpad on your keyboard? How do you live? | 17:18 |
| Wolfger | all day tests, fire and forget? No way. "Quit playing games and get back to work." "I am working. I'm running tests on the code." :-) | 17:20 |
| Wolfger | single-threading ftw | 17:20 |
| rick_h | Wolfger: this is what pqm is for | 17:21 |
| rick_h | Wolfger: and yes, I don't have a keypad on many of my keyboards <3 | 17:22 |
| Wolfger | I always wanted the numpad on the left, not the right | 17:23 |
| Wolfger | those keyboards are hard to find and/or obscenely expensive | 17:23 |
| jrwren | numpad is bad. | 17:24 |
| jrwren | not ergo. | 17:24 |
| jrwren | mouse should be there. | 17:24 |
| jrwren | if mouse is past the numpad it is too far and you have to stretch to far to reach it. | 17:24 |
| jrwren | bad ergo | 17:24 |
| Wolfger | Why are you using a mouse? Just keep your hands on the keyboard. | 17:28 |
| rick_h | oh come on Wolfger, I can't believe a kde user isn't moues heavy | 17:28 |
| rick_h | if you truly didn't usea mouse much you'd be on a different DE | 17:28 |
| Wolfger | but yeah, that's why I want the numpad on the left... No reaching for mouse | 17:28 |
| rick_h | exactly, which is why I like my 10less keyborads | 17:29 |
| rick_h | keyboads | 17:29 |
| rick_h | bah! | 17:29 |
| rick_h | I give up...going home and calling in sick | 17:29 |
| Wolfger | ROFL | 17:29 |
| Wolfger | "Where's Rick?" "He was here earlier, then I got an e-mail that he wasn't feeling well and wouldn't be in today..." | 17:30 |
| jrwren | snap-l: gah! your tweet and blog post... i still don't have anyone to open the door for you. | 17:39 |
| snap-l | jrwren: No worries. Just LMK if it's not going to happen. | 17:40 |
| rick_h | snap-l: crap, wife's working on that day :( | 17:45 |
| snap-l | urgh | 17:48 |
| snap-l | WEll that's no good. | 17:48 |
| rick_h | I might be able to see if grandpa can watch him for an hour/two between me leaving and mom getting home since he's in town | 17:49 |
| rick_h | but not sure | 17:49 |
| snap-l | OK | 17:49 |
| rick_h | I'll shoot for it, but might not be able to make it out. No offense, but not going to run out at 2pm when wife gets home | 17:49 |
| rick_h | too much driving for too little time | 17:50 |
| snap-l | Yeah, understandable | 17:50 |
| brousch | wow. got my second recruiter call ever at work. they want me to do iOS development | 18:42 |
| brousch | damn fools | 18:42 |
| rick_h | https://plus.google.com/109919666334513536939/posts/a5DdsUPEvhH | 18:45 |
| brousch | heh | 18:46 |
| snap-l | Oh geez | 18:52 |
| ColonelPanic001 | wat | 18:55 |
| rick_h | come on, that's one cool looking michigan logo there :) | 18:55 |
| ColonelPanic001 | <3 | 18:56 |
| ColonelPanic001 | Waterloo's amuses me | 18:56 |
| rick_h | ok, who wants to take this one? http://www.quora.com/What-can-vim-do-that-nano-cant?__snids__=33969307 | 18:59 |
| rick_h | you win one internets | 18:59 |
| snap-l | Oh jesus | 19:01 |
| snap-l | That's like asking what's the difference between a woman and a Barbie doll. | 19:01 |
| snap-l | Or the difference between a Navy Seal and a GI Joe action figure. | 19:02 |
| brousch | so ... you're saying vim can have real sex instead of just pretend? | 19:03 |
| snap-l | "What's the difference between theory and practice? In theory, they're the same" | 19:03 |
| * brousch checks his vim book's ToC more closely | 19:03 | |
| snap-l | brousch: There's a plugin for that | 19:03 |
| snap-l | gspot.vba | 19:03 |
| snap-l | also, do not google gspot vim | 19:04 |
| brousch | based on those people i know who use vim, that is not an image search i want to encounter | 19:05 |
| brousch | snap-l: whoa http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0242478 | 19:12 |
| snap-l | Yeah, they're cheeeeeeep | 19:13 |
| snap-l | Even 4GB is $5 each | 19:13 |
| brousch | i actually can't find any 1GB for under $2 each | 19:14 |
| brousch | i bought a 5 pack 2 years ago for $6 | 19:15 |
| snap-l | That's still pretty cheap. | 19:15 |
| snap-l | Yeah, I think they bottom out after a while | 19:15 |
| nullspace | some how I missed this whole non blocking arguement the node.js fan boys are thrwoing around | 19:15 |
| snap-l | nullspace: How so? | 19:16 |
| rick_h | nullspace: huh? | 19:16 |
| rick_h | that's the whole things with eventlet/node/etc | 19:16 |
| rick_h | whole point that is | 19:16 |
| rick_h | don't solve the concurrency problem, just work around it by making things not concurrent :) | 19:17 |
| nullspace | ouch | 19:17 |
| snap-l | Well, and use a language that is event based | 19:17 |
| snap-l | or very good at events along with a seriously optimized engine | 19:18 |
| rick_h | well the events just facilitate jumping in/out of the reactor/main thread | 19:19 |
| rick_h | nullspace: so anyway, what's the issue or whatever with the realization? | 19:19 |
| nullspace | I don't understand there arguement. did this make sense any time node.js came into being | 19:20 |
| rick_h | yes, the idea is that all the libraries/etc you use are non-blocking so that whenever you make a call to mysql/etc | 19:20 |
| rick_h | it happens outside the main thread allowing for another bit of code to be processed | 19:21 |
| rick_h | in this one, one thread handles more work faster by getting anything that hangs cpu cyles out of the way | 19:21 |
| rick_h | /this one/this way | 19:21 |
| rick_h | for instance, in python, when I run a db query, it sits and waits for the db to respond, that python thread doesn't do any other work while waiting | 19:22 |
| rick_h | but it could be serving someone else's cached result in that time | 19:22 |
| nullspace | isn't there ways to write multi thread python? | 19:23 |
| rick_h | yes, but there's a GIL you have to deal with | 19:23 |
| rick_h | and it's really ineffecient for many many things | 19:23 |
| snap-l | GIL being the Global Lock | 19:23 |
| rick_h | and any time you get multi-threaded you have to think harder | 19:24 |
| snap-l | (I being ... :) ) | 19:24 |
| rick_h | see java multi threading/locks/etc | 19:24 |
| snap-l | Global Interpreter Lock | 19:24 |
| nullspace | ah | 19:24 |
| nullspace | yeah that's not really a problem I can say I run into | 19:26 |
| snap-l | nullspace: Well, you might run into it in small forms | 19:26 |
| snap-l | but much like benchmarking different CPUs nowadays, you'll care a lot if you care a lot. ;) | 19:27 |
| snap-l | otherwise, you won't care that much until it starts breaking things. | 19:27 |
| nullspace | I think there are way bigger fish to fry | 19:28 |
| snap-l | Yeah, like setting up Eclipse. ;) | 19:28 |
| nullspace | hey, eclipse works just fine for me | 19:30 |
| rick_h | anyone else off monday? | 19:30 |
| snap-l | rick_h: Not I | 19:31 |
| snap-l | Unless you work for the government, I don't think you get Monday off. | 19:32 |
| nullspace | hmm well node could be really handy on embedded devices with a web frontend | 19:46 |
| rick_h | nullspace: node is very handle for very fast little services and some people have built really large apps with it | 19:48 |
| rick_h | handy that is | 19:48 |
| rick_h | I did a contact lookup thing that could handle many more req/s on the one cpu than python could | 19:48 |
| rick_h | the other handy space is the JS from back end to front end | 19:50 |
| jrwren | lol, hilarious. | 19:51 |
| rick_h | jrwren: which part :) | 19:52 |
| jrwren | nano | 19:56 |
| rick_h | ah, yea | 19:56 |
| jrwren | nullspace: the nonblcoking arguement: see Twisted Python | 19:59 |
| jrwren | or even stackless python | 20:00 |
| jrwren | and maybe pypy greenlets | 20:00 |
| rick_h | gevent, etc | 20:00 |
| Blazeix | rick_h: do you have an opinion on gunicorn/geven vs uwsgi? I was trying to wrap my head around that last night. | 20:02 |
| Blazeix | gunicorn is theoretically production-class, right? not just some little dev server? | 20:02 |
| brousch | Blazeix: supposedly | 20:04 |
| brousch | i'm using it to serve tens of requests per day on heroku | 20:04 |
| rick_h | Blazeix: yea, but it's pretty bare bones | 20:04 |
| rick_h | Blazeix: I'd still put it behind nginx/company | 20:04 |
| rick_h | Blazeix: uwsgi has some extra added nice features | 20:05 |
| rick_h | but I think gunicorn is winning the battle tbh | 20:05 |
| rick_h | but one thing at morpace I wold them on, was that it could "shut down" an app, and reload it on first request | 20:05 |
| brousch | it doesn't really do static files, so you still need something else in front | 20:05 |
| rick_h | so let's say you were deploying 50 wsgi apps, rather than 50 apps + 10 workers per app, sitting idle | 20:05 |
| rick_h | it could actually shut down the apps to the 5 current accepting requests | 20:05 |
| rick_h | and if #6 got a request, it'd take the time to load it | 20:05 |
| rick_h | brousch: right, static files, ssl, caching, etc | 20:06 |
| rick_h | Blazeix: and uwsgi is pure python, so no C libraries/compiling while gevent needs some C libs | 20:06 |
| brousch | the pure python is the most awesome part. pip install gunicorn | 20:07 |
| rick_h | Blazeix: nvm...it's not pure python, I lied | 20:08 |
| rick_h | but yea, it's pip installable, gunicorn is as well | 20:08 |
| brousch | it's not? | 20:09 |
| rick_h | no, gunicorn needs some c compiled bits for the gevent support | 20:09 |
| rick_h | damn, maybe I'm having a bad friday...don't see it | 20:10 |
| Blazeix | ok, cool. it kind of seems like gunicorn exploded on to the scene. | 20:11 |
| Blazeix | but maybe i'm just too far from the python community right now. | 20:11 |
| rick_h | ah, ok so gunicorn is pure python ootb, but yuou can change the worker model to eventlet of gevent for performance | 20:11 |
| rick_h | http://gunicorn.org/faq.html#worker-processes | 20:11 |
| rick_h | and those are C-based, I thoght it used gevent ootb | 20:11 |
| rick_h | Blazeix: yea, gunicorn is winning I think because it started out with built in django support | 20:12 |
| rick_h | and has since really gotten helpers to make it a lot easier/performs well | 20:12 |
| rick_h | and docs that don't suck as hard as uwsgi | 20:12 |
| rick_h | I love uwsgi --help and seeing | 20:12 |
| rick_h | -X "not documented yet" | 20:12 |
| rick_h | for options in there lol | 20:12 |
| brousch | well `python manage.py run_gunicorn` is a lot easier than farting around with apache+mod_wsgi | 20:16 |
| rick_h | yea, definitely | 20:17 |
| rick_h | I see django 1.4 will finally have a .wsgi ootb now | 20:17 |
| brousch | i should say much easier than python+mod_wsgi+ virtualenv, because that's what really makes it a bitch | 20:17 |
| * rick_h rants on django some more | 20:17 | |
| snap-l | rick_h: 'bout fucking time | 20:17 |
| rick_h | http://us4.campaign-archive2.com/?u=9735795484d2e4c204da82a29&id=e9564edf16&e=6bda5f785a | 20:17 |
| brousch | we don't need no stinking .wsgi | 20:18 |
| * rick_h smacks brousch upside the head with a cluebat (no baby sticks here) | 20:18 | |
| rick_h | but yea, that's why gunicorn got a boost, it knew django users didn't wsgi ootb so it made it easy up front | 20:19 |
| rick_h | while everyone else just supports wsgi dammit | 20:19 |
| snap-l | There's no reason not to support wsgi | 20:19 |
| snap-l | None. Zero. Zip. | 20:20 |
| rick_h | man precise downloads so painfully slow :/ | 20:51 |
| snap-l | bittorrent? | 20:59 |
| jrwren | rsync daily from testdrive :[ | 21:07 |
| Blazeix | anyone have an opinion on the "Agile and Beyond" conference that's coming up? | 21:11 |
| Blazeix | my work wants me to go it, but for some reason i have a bad taste in my mouth about it. | 21:12 |
| Blazeix | i guess i'm worried it's going to be bunch of Big-A Agile people. | 21:12 |
| snap-l | What's the worst that could happen? | 21:12 |
| snap-l | A little Kool-Aid, some sneakers, and a loooong nap? | 21:13 |
| Blazeix | my brain could leak from my ears. | 21:13 |
| rick_h | Blazeix: yea, I couldn't sit through it | 21:14 |
| brousch | Agholes? | 21:14 |
| rick_h | Blazeix: Searls gave the talk at detroit dev days on jasmine | 21:14 |
| rick_h | but I mean side v side kanban talks? rly? | 21:14 |
| rick_h | heh, the improv talk from detroit dev days is going on there again | 21:15 |
| Blazeix | i've only ever used Kanban as a punchline, which I fear wouldn't go over well there. | 21:15 |
| rick_h | hah | 21:15 |
| rick_h | Blazeix: yea, it sure seems like a mgr thing than a code in an editor thing :/ | 21:16 |
| Blazeix | exactly | 21:16 |
| brousch | as i work on this project i find i'm collecting a bunch of little bash scripts for repetative tasks, like refreshing static files locally and on the server. is this where i should be using fabric? | 21:35 |
| snap-l | If you're repeating a script, yes. | 21:39 |
| snap-l | If you have to keep a list of what script to run next, yes. | 21:39 |
| brousch | ok | 21:52 |
| rick_h | brousch: fabric or Makefile | 22:01 |
| rick_h | I'm coming around to the Makefile way of life | 22:01 |
| rick_h | thuogh still <3 fabric | 22:01 |
| snap-l | uh oh. :) | 22:17 |
| snap-l | Loaded up the good reads app on my nook | 23:09 |
| snap-l | I'm a little disappointed with it | 23:09 |
| snap-l | would be nice to have it automatically grab titles from the device | 23:10 |
| snap-l | instead, it's essentially the website in app form | 23:10 |
| brousch | snap-l rick_h sort of good news http://paste.mitechie.com/show/542/ | 23:41 |
| rick_h | brousch: ah, nice | 23:49 |
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