scott-upstairsanyone here for the meeting?15:58
holsteinin 2 hours?15:58
holsteinis that right?15:58
scott-upstairseh, i thought it was now, okay, i'll come back then :)16:10
holsteinscott-upstairs: i never do the conversion properly... lemme look16:12
ailoIt might have been now. 16:28
ailoWell, maybe not. I don't remember16:28
holsteinive got it in 30 minutes scott-upstairs ailo 16:28
ailo I'm not of much help, but I can attend the meeting anyhow16:33
holsteini think i can16:33
ScottLholstein, i think you are right, the wiki shows 17:00 UTC16:38
ScottLwhich is now 20 mins away for me16:38
ailoI've done some midi editing a couple of days, using Ardour3 and qtractor16:49
ailoIt's a headache to say the least16:49
ailoIt's almost impossible to get finished with anything more advanced than 4/4 in the same tempo16:50
ailoAll sorts of bugs16:50
ailoThinking about trying rosegarden next16:50
ailoArdour3 got borked almost right away for me. When I entered midi notes, they would appear a few bars ahead16:51
ailoNow, my qtractor project has something corrupted that makes it impossible to edit a midi file, or it freezes16:52
ailoStill just trying to finish one track16:52
ailoWhat I'm doing is I'm making a drum track using Hydrogen as an instrument, so I can record some guitars and have something resembling a beat to play along with16:53
ailoA way to get a feel for the arrangement as well16:53
ailoWow, 914 MB just to install rosegarden on this Debian install :P16:54
ailoI'm pretty happy with rakarrak. 16:56
ailoOnly thing missing is a good drum sample library. Gotta get one together soon (well, maybe not a good one, but a real one)16:57
ailoAside from rosegarden, I guess there's still MusE16:58
astraljavaAre we going to have a meeting? My connection sucks, so don't hold be responsible for chairing, please.16:59
astraljavabe == me16:59
ailoastraljava: Sounds like you have a cold. Have some lemon bee17:01
astraljavaHehe. :D17:01
ailoScottL: holstein astraljava len Is it time?17:05
astraljavaIt would be.17:06
astraljavaAlready six minutes past.17:06
holsteinyou want to do something informal in here instead?17:07
holsteinjust a little shout of report kind of thing?17:07
holsteinknome: are you around?17:07
holsteincfhowlett: o/17:13
lenIm here17:13
cfhowlettmorning/evening/afternoon all17:13
lenailo: try rosegarden with no docs.17:15
ailolen: You mean that makes the installation smaller? It pulled in a lot of other stuff too I guess. Since I'm getting my hands dirty with midi editing now, it's a perfect opportunity to see which sequencer actually holds water17:17
ailoSo far I'm not too happy with either qtractor or Ardour317:17
ailoI'm not able to finish a project with those two17:18
lenardour3 still doesn't seem to put out toc files either.17:18
lenI am thinking it tries to do too much17:18
lenhave you tried lmms?17:19
ailoFor audio recording, Ardour3 is great. But for midi, well, it's still so new17:19
ailoI haven't for a long time17:19
ailoWhat I need is to be able to do advanced midi editing17:19
lenWhen I downloaded rose the docs were 600m17:19
ailoReally? Wow17:19
lenThat may also be the reason pure data comes docless.17:20
ailolen: It doesn't come without docs17:20
lenWell then there may be a bug ,because I couldn't find any docs.17:21
ailolen: They are in the form of patches. You can find them using the help browser17:21
ailoOr, in /usr/lib/pd/doc/*17:22
lenOr at least when I went to the help menu on the title bar and selected docs it came up empty.17:22
ailolen: There's no docs item in the help menu, but there is "browser"17:23
lenStill nothing there though in the iso I checked.17:23
ailoI don't get what you mean, since pd always comes with those docs17:24
lenYes the docs are there in /usr/lib/pd/doc/17:24
lenbut when I tried to access them from pd I wasn't able to. I will try again when next I am up with US120417:25
lenMaybe I did something wrong.17:25
ailolen: There could be a bug with that version of pd, not sure. I seem to remember something like that17:25
lenis there a meeting?17:26
ailoIt's here if we're going to have one17:26
lenOk. I have to go soon. The only comment I have... is that it would be nice to see more small changes happening as they are needed.17:27
astraljavaYeah, let's wait for Scott, cause we would have to make some decisions, and we can't make them without the leader.17:27
lenIt would be better for testing if we knew about problems earlier than later17:28
astraljavalen: ACK. Things have been rather crazy lately, for me, and apparently for Scott as well.17:28
ScottLsorry got wrapped up in family stuff17:28
lenIs it hard to drop things into the iso? Just the seeds or metas too?17:29
lenFrom my know next to nothing view it seems like it would be "simple" to make any one change.17:30
ScottLlen, i've been making changes17:31
ScottLi've updated the lightdm theme and the default-settings package to address some of the things we already acknowledged17:31
ScottLi would like to get micahg  to upload these today or tomorrow after i test them on my precise-test machine (i've already built theme)17:32
lenGood, So I should see that soon then.17:32
ScottLthere will probably be some issues with either the theme name and icon theme name17:32
ScottLsome things got changed (not by me) and i'm not sure how they will react17:33
lenOne of the problems with adding a package after install, is that the user already has settings installed.17:33
lenIt would be better to replace the package on the usb iso  and reinstall.17:34
lenAt the least you need to create a new user.17:34
ScottLlen, when the package is tested that it installs then it will be uploaded to the repositoriy and then included in the iso after the next build (whenver it is)17:34
ScottLagain, hopefully this is done this today/tomorrow17:35
lenAh, you just want to see if it installs. Thats diferent.17:35
ScottLmy goal is to address groups of issue on a weekly basis17:35
ScottLlen, yes....test build and install17:35
ScottLthen validate if it does what it is suppose to fix17:35
lenTheme changes will be seen best by creating new user.17:36
ScottLonce the iso installs without hanging up or dumping us to terminal or whatever i want to tackle the jack rt issue and pulseaudio<->jack bridging17:36
lenlightdm changes should show ok on their own.17:37
ScottLon the former, cjwatson has maintained that the preseeding should work but ubiquity is running the preseeding _after_ the installation17:37
lenjack-pa bridging looks like setup changes.17:37
ScottLthe later, i will talk directly to david h. (who seems to be the expert or most interest and is an audio core-dev guy) about how it should work and then compare our setup17:38
lenIf preseeding is after the install then a mv command should work fine.17:38
ScottLlen, right, but it should install correctly with preseeding, it does it correctly on other variants i believe17:39
ScottLbut i want to make sure the iso installs as properly as possible before i poke cjwatson further17:39
lenjack-pa the problem is that PA still tries to send audio directly to alsa which is blocked by jack17:39
ScottLlen, there has been quite a bit of work with d-bus to make things play better, i still suggest that something might have changed which unwittingly is making things not work well with jack17:40
ailoI suppose the jack PA bridge is entirely Ubuntu and not Ubuntu Studio? and that those guys are working on it?17:40
ScottLlen, aye, other people are working on pulse audio, but david h. should be able to suss it out for us17:40
lenI got one reply on the bug asking for a log file. nothing since17:41
lenThat may help. as from my view it can be either a PA bug or a US setup problem.17:42
ScottLone issue for the group, does anyone object to making a LTS application to the technical board?  it would be for three years and a best effort commitment17:42
ScottLlen, david h. is very fluent in both pulse audio and jack and will be able to help us, i spoke with him at the last UDS about this issue17:43
lenIt depends on PA's ideas as to what is right or the right way of doing things.17:43
ScottLso this coming week i hope to focus on jack rt and pulseaudio<->jack17:44
cfhowlettI only do LTS releases, so if 12.04 will be ready, I wholeheartedly support the LTS application.17:44
lenI think the question is not support so much as " have we reached our goals for this version?"17:44
ScottLthe following week i would like focus on the ubiqutiy plugin that astraljava worked up17:44
lenThat is: is the switch to xfce complete.17:45
ScottLlen, i would posit that the goals for any version are never reached until practically at the last of the cycle17:45
ScottLthe question i think we should ask, do we want to support a particular release over a given period for our users17:45
ScottLi prefer to run the LTS version until certain apps (e.g. ardour) can't be updated17:46
lenI understand that, to rephrase: does it look like the switch to xfce will be complete? if it does then this would be a good time to call it LTS17:46
ScottLi'm not sure i would want that as a qualifier at this point, we can always keep updated the packages, even after release, to fix issues17:47
ScottLtherefore, if something in xfce isn't where we want it, the use can install and then upgrade the package17:47
lenDoesn't that happen pertty much on it's own?17:48
ScottLbut perhaps we have a wrong config file and that is _our_ implementation problem17:48
ScottLnot xfce's or ubuntu's or canonical's or even xubuntu's, most likely17:48
ScottLfor example, i just realized two/three days again i had a config file in the wrong directory for lightdm17:49
ScottLthis is probably causes some of our problems and it was a stupid mistake on my part17:49
ScottLbut it's OUR problem, not anyone else's17:49
lenIt's why we do testing.17:50
ScottLaye :)17:50
ScottLand you have been a HUGE help in that department!17:50
ScottLand all your efforts and comments have been MOST appreciated17:50
lenWe expect mistakes... no mistakes means no movement.17:50
lenAnyway, I'm ok with LTS if my vote has any meaning.17:52
lenAnything about menus?17:52
cfhowlettIf it's LTS worthy and ready, then yes.  Please.17:52
astraljavalen: Of course your vote has meaning, they're all equal.17:53
ScottLlen, yes, we value your vote17:54
ScottLlen, as to menus, we'll see when this happens, like some of the smaller issues17:54
ScottLthey might happen in march (or on the cusp) unfortunately17:54
ScottLagain, i think some discussion needs to happen before we make changes17:55
ScottLlen, do you still have your menu currently changed?17:55
lenOk, I have a gig gotta go. I have been working on menu files. I'll post them on the list for feed back.17:55
ScottLwe might use your screenshots to further the discussion17:55
ScottLgood luck at the gig17:55
lenCan I get screen shots of menus? everytime I have a menu open I can't seem to do anything else.17:56
ScottLlen, you can do a timed schreenshot from the menu17:56
ScottLaccessories -> screenshot17:56
ScottLand choose a 5 sec delay or something like that17:57
ScottLthen open the menu and wait17:57
lenAh! ok gotta go. Bye all17:57
ailorosegarden crashed. That's how I remember it. Sudden crashes. MusE seems to be really easy to work with concerning midi, but why the hell does it install Swedish, when I have English as my system language!18:00
astraljavaScottL: What is our stance on the LTS question? Same as Xubuntu?18:04
ScottLastraljava, yes, i was going to propose the same18:10
astraljavaSounds good.18:10
astraljavaScottL: What features are we going to be driving before Beta-1? I should get the ubiquity plugins ready during Tuesday. But what else?18:11
astraljavaailo: That Muse behaviour seems really interesting. Would you be willing to debug it with me, let's say, on Wednesday or after that?18:14
ScottLastraljava, i was really hoping to get the lightdm updates pushed and verified before moving on to ubiquity plugin18:25
ScottLastraljava, but that was because i just wanted to keep things modular and simple18:25
ScottLastraljava, it doesn't have to be that way however18:25
ScottLkinda to focus on a single problem, prepare fix, verify fix, and mark it off the list18:26
astraljavaScottL: Sure, I understand that.18:28
ailoastraljava: Well, I believe the program has a bug which makes it choose the language file from some other criteria than the system language. I deleted the non English locales from /usr/share/muse/locale/* which solved my problem18:31
ailoI've posted on their forum on Sourceforge18:31
ailoJust found their bug tracker, so I will put a note there as well18:32
ailoI love working with the midi editor. Let's see if I can get more stable performance (no missing beats and buggy editing)18:33
astraljavaailo: Ok.18:34
ScottLhi shnatsel 18:58
shnatselhi ScottL 18:58
astraljavaScottL: So, are you available on Tuesday, so we can go over the changes I've made?19:07
shnatselaaarg looks like all the time I spent on lp:ubuntu-cdimage is wasted19:45
shnatselit wants one and only one repo with all needed packages, and there seems to be no sane way to merge repos19:46
shnatselwell, I hope the seeds docs were useful to you at least19:46
ScottLastraljava, i will make myself available :)20:02
ScottLshnatsel, i'm sorry to hear that :/20:02
ScottLthey were useful, however20:02
shnatselnot wasted then20:04
astraljavashnatsel: You should talk to LP devs, maybe there is a way after all.20:24
astraljavaScottL: Ok, cool.20:25
shnatselastraljava: it's not about lp, it's about ubuntu ISO builds20:25
shnatselastraljava: well, there is a way. I've found one.20:25
astraljavashnatsel: But what repos are you mentioning, then?20:25
shnatselastraljava: I need to merge ubuntu archive with several PPAs20:26
shnatselastraljava: well, I don't anymore.20:26
astraljavashnatsel: That's what I meant. All the repos are under LP umbrella. They might know the way.20:26
shnatselastraljava: screwed it and rewriting in-house build system again.20:26
astraljavashnatsel: Ok.20:26
shnatselastraljava: ah, thanks!20:26
ScottLmicahg, ping20:30
ScottLwow, hehe, thought it would be a bit :P20:31
ScottLi'm almost ready20:31
ScottLwith fixes to -default-settings and -lightdm-theme20:31
ScottLtesting once more after ppa rebuilds (which should be quick as there really isn't a "binary")20:31
ScottLmicahg, do you have experience with icons theme and theme names?20:32
ScottLeither way i would expect to have the bzr changes pushed in about a hour (i need to run to store with kids first)20:33
ScottLmicahg, if i have a single bug for which i have several lines in the changefile, can i do the following:21:47
ScottL  [bug #000000]21:47
ubottuError: Launchpad bug 0 could not be found21:47
ScottL   21:47
ScottL   * fixed this21:48
ScottL  * fixed that21:48
micahgwell, would be LP: #XXXXXX, but yeah21:48
knomehere i am21:49
ScottLhehe, yeah, thank you micahg, just tidying up changelog and seeing if i need another bug report21:50
ScottLhi knome 21:50
knomewhat's up?21:50
ScottLjust working on the -default-settings and -lightdm-theme packages so the iso should boot without problems finally21:51
knomegood luck with that21:51
ScottLi'm feeling good about what i got21:51
knomewhat about the cards?21:53
ScottLknome, also, astraljava and i should be testing the ubiquity plugin on tuesday as well21:53
knomeoo, shiny21:53
knomecabin crew prepare for landing!21:54
ScottLknome, hmmm, cards...i still have about three things to do tonight and a meeting at work on tuesday for which i REALLY need to prepare, so let's say wednesday i will make changes21:54
knomechanges? :)21:54
ScottLsorry, was thinking slideshow21:55
ScottLhehehe, my bad21:55
knomehehe, that's fine :D21:55
knomechanges with cards are fine too...21:55
knomejust want to know you'll get them safely to your printer - assuming you will send them to one :)21:55
ScottLi'd actually like to wait until later for the slideshow if possible actually 21:55
ScottLknome, yes, i would like to send them to a printer and i do not have any changes :)21:55
knomeno problem, i can upload what we got now to the main branch21:56
knomeor do you want me to hold that too?21:56
ScottLknome, that is a good idea, at least we have something and we can change it as well21:56
knomeokay, great21:56
knomei'll do that tonight21:56
ScottLthank you again knome, without you and shimmer/xubuntu we would have not gotten many things done21:56
knomenp, happy to help21:56
ScottLi wish i knew more and could do more to help you21:57
ScottLbut i'm learning a lot (which i really enjoy doing)21:57
knomenah, this is fine21:58
knomei've made a merge proposal22:00
knomeadded dylan mccall as the reviewer, since he knows the internal stuff22:00
knomeand that would be https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/precise/+merge/9375022:01
astraljavaknome: Yeah, I intend to finish both ubiquity plugins on Tuesday, I'll be home tomorrow evening.22:09
knomeastraljava, nice :)22:29
knomeastraljava, how are you, btw?22:29
astraljavaI'm okay, really tired, but happy that the trip is almost over. Both interviews went fine, so at least that should be good news. I didn't really enjoy the expo that much, but the greek friend is always a blast to see. As were you guys. :)22:33
knomehehe. great to hear. and thanks :)22:34
knomeyou're always welcome again22:34
astraljavaCheers, I intend to. :)22:37
knomewe might even be able to organize an nhl-night with 3 other guys, if you're interested22:41
astraljavaOf course I am! :)22:42
astraljavaBut I think I need to practice first. :)22:42
astraljavaknome: Are you using chrome or ff?22:44
astraljavaIt seems chrome leaks memory like crazy now. I had to go back to ff.22:45
scott-upstairsmicahg, ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme version 3:  https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme22:54
scott-upstairsmicahg, ubuntustudio-default-settings version 93:  https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings/UbuntuStudio22:54
scott-upstairsmicahg, hold on a second!  i realized i forgot to remove something from default-settings22:56
scott-upstairsmicahg, default settings but version 9422:58
scott-upstairsi had realized that both the default-settings and lightdm packages were both doing the same thing in the pre/post inst/rm files22:58
scott-upstairswhich was setting up the lightdm theme, so i moved it to lightdm where i think it should be then22:59
knomeastraljava, ff23:34
len-nbScottL scott-upstairs (and anyone else who cares to look) http://www.ovenwerks.net/UStudiodocs/menu.html  has what I have done so far in redoing menus.23:51

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