[15:58] <scott-upstairs> anyone here for the meeting?
[15:58] <holstein> in 2 hours?
[15:58] <holstein> is that right?
[16:10] <scott-upstairs> eh, i thought it was now, okay, i'll come back then :)
[16:12] <holstein> scott-upstairs: i never do the conversion properly... lemme look
[16:28] <ailo> It might have been now. 
[16:28] <ailo> Well, maybe not. I don't remember
[16:28] <holstein> ive got it in 30 minutes scott-upstairs ailo 
[16:33] <ailo>  I'm not of much help, but I can attend the meeting anyhow
[16:33] <holstein> i think i can
[16:38] <ScottL> holstein, i think you are right, the wiki shows 17:00 UTC
[16:38] <ScottL> which is now 20 mins away for me
[16:49] <ailo> I've done some midi editing a couple of days, using Ardour3 and qtractor
[16:49] <ailo> It's a headache to say the least
[16:50] <ailo> It's almost impossible to get finished with anything more advanced than 4/4 in the same tempo
[16:50] <ailo> All sorts of bugs
[16:50] <ailo> Thinking about trying rosegarden next
[16:51] <ailo> Ardour3 got borked almost right away for me. When I entered midi notes, they would appear a few bars ahead
[16:52] <ailo> Now, my qtractor project has something corrupted that makes it impossible to edit a midi file, or it freezes
[16:52] <ailo> Still just trying to finish one track
[16:53] <ailo> What I'm doing is I'm making a drum track using Hydrogen as an instrument, so I can record some guitars and have something resembling a beat to play along with
[16:53] <ailo> A way to get a feel for the arrangement as well
[16:54] <ailo> Wow, 914 MB just to install rosegarden on this Debian install :P
[16:56] <ailo> I'm pretty happy with rakarrak. 
[16:57] <ailo> Only thing missing is a good drum sample library. Gotta get one together soon (well, maybe not a good one, but a real one)
[16:58] <ailo> Aside from rosegarden, I guess there's still MusE
[16:59] <astraljava> Are we going to have a meeting? My connection sucks, so don't hold be responsible for chairing, please.
[16:59] <astraljava> be == me
[17:01] <ailo> astraljava: Sounds like you have a cold. Have some lemon bee
[17:01] <astraljava> Hehe. :D
[17:05] <ailo> ScottL: holstein astraljava len Is it time?
[17:06] <astraljava> It would be.
[17:06] <astraljava> Already six minutes past.
[17:06] <holstein> yeah
[17:07] <holstein> you want to do something informal in here instead?
[17:07] <holstein> just a little shout of report kind of thing?
[17:07] <holstein> knome: are you around?
[17:13] <holstein> cfhowlett: o/
[17:13] <len> Im here
[17:13] <cfhowlett> morning/evening/afternoon all
[17:15] <len> ailo: try rosegarden with no docs.
[17:17] <ailo> len: You mean that makes the installation smaller? It pulled in a lot of other stuff too I guess. Since I'm getting my hands dirty with midi editing now, it's a perfect opportunity to see which sequencer actually holds water
[17:17] <ailo> So far I'm not too happy with either qtractor or Ardour3
[17:18] <ailo> I'm not able to finish a project with those two
[17:18] <len> ardour3 still doesn't seem to put out toc files either.
[17:18] <len> I am thinking it tries to do too much
[17:19] <len> have you tried lmms?
[17:19] <ailo> For audio recording, Ardour3 is great. But for midi, well, it's still so new
[17:19] <ailo> I haven't for a long time
[17:19] <ailo> What I need is to be able to do advanced midi editing
[17:19] <len> When I downloaded rose the docs were 600m
[17:19] <ailo> Really? Wow
[17:20] <len> That may also be the reason pure data comes docless.
[17:20] <ailo> len: It doesn't come without docs
[17:21] <len> Well then there may be a bug ,because I couldn't find any docs.
[17:21] <ailo> len: They are in the form of patches. You can find them using the help browser
[17:22] <ailo> Or, in /usr/lib/pd/doc/*
[17:22] <len> Or at least when I went to the help menu on the title bar and selected docs it came up empty.
[17:23] <ailo> len: There's no docs item in the help menu, but there is "browser"
[17:23] <len> Still nothing there though in the iso I checked.
[17:24] <ailo> I don't get what you mean, since pd always comes with those docs
[17:24] <len> Yes the docs are there in /usr/lib/pd/doc/
[17:25] <len> but when I tried to access them from pd I wasn't able to. I will try again when next I am up with US1204
[17:25] <len> Maybe I did something wrong.
[17:25] <ailo> len: There could be a bug with that version of pd, not sure. I seem to remember something like that
[17:26] <len> is there a meeting?
[17:26] <ailo> It's here if we're going to have one
[17:27] <len> Ok. I have to go soon. The only comment I have... is that it would be nice to see more small changes happening as they are needed.
[17:27] <astraljava> Yeah, let's wait for Scott, cause we would have to make some decisions, and we can't make them without the leader.
[17:28] <len> It would be better for testing if we knew about problems earlier than later
[17:28] <astraljava> len: ACK. Things have been rather crazy lately, for me, and apparently for Scott as well.
[17:28] <ScottL> sorry got wrapped up in family stuff
[17:29] <len> Is it hard to drop things into the iso? Just the seeds or metas too?
[17:30] <len> From my know next to nothing view it seems like it would be "simple" to make any one change.
[17:31] <ScottL> len, i've been making changes
[17:31] <ScottL> i've updated the lightdm theme and the default-settings package to address some of the things we already acknowledged
[17:32] <ScottL> i would like to get micahg  to upload these today or tomorrow after i test them on my precise-test machine (i've already built theme)
[17:32] <len> Good, So I should see that soon then.
[17:32] <ScottL> there will probably be some issues with either the theme name and icon theme name
[17:33] <ScottL> some things got changed (not by me) and i'm not sure how they will react
[17:33] <len> One of the problems with adding a package after install, is that the user already has settings installed.
[17:34] <len> It would be better to replace the package on the usb iso  and reinstall.
[17:34] <len> At the least you need to create a new user.
[17:34] <ScottL> len, when the package is tested that it installs then it will be uploaded to the repositoriy and then included in the iso after the next build (whenver it is)
[17:35] <ScottL> again, hopefully this is done this today/tomorrow
[17:35] <len> Ah, you just want to see if it installs. Thats diferent.
[17:35] <ScottL> my goal is to address groups of issue on a weekly basis
[17:35] <ScottL> len, yes....test build and install
[17:35] <ScottL> then validate if it does what it is suppose to fix
[17:36] <len> Theme changes will be seen best by creating new user.
[17:36] <ScottL> once the iso installs without hanging up or dumping us to terminal or whatever i want to tackle the jack rt issue and pulseaudio<->jack bridging
[17:37] <len> lightdm changes should show ok on their own.
[17:37] <ScottL> on the former, cjwatson has maintained that the preseeding should work but ubiquity is running the preseeding _after_ the installation
[17:37] <len> jack-pa bridging looks like setup changes.
[17:38] <ScottL> the later, i will talk directly to david h. (who seems to be the expert or most interest and is an audio core-dev guy) about how it should work and then compare our setup
[17:38] <len> If preseeding is after the install then a mv command should work fine.
[17:39] <ScottL> len, right, but it should install correctly with preseeding, it does it correctly on other variants i believe
[17:39] <ScottL> but i want to make sure the iso installs as properly as possible before i poke cjwatson further
[17:39] <len> jack-pa the problem is that PA still tries to send audio directly to alsa which is blocked by jack
[17:40] <ScottL> len, there has been quite a bit of work with d-bus to make things play better, i still suggest that something might have changed which unwittingly is making things not work well with jack
[17:40] <ailo> I suppose the jack PA bridge is entirely Ubuntu and not Ubuntu Studio? and that those guys are working on it?
[17:40] <ScottL> len, aye, other people are working on pulse audio, but david h. should be able to suss it out for us
[17:41] <len> I got one reply on the bug asking for a log file. nothing since
[17:42] <len> That may help. as from my view it can be either a PA bug or a US setup problem.
[17:42] <ScottL> one issue for the group, does anyone object to making a LTS application to the technical board?  it would be for three years and a best effort commitment
[17:43] <ScottL> len, david h. is very fluent in both pulse audio and jack and will be able to help us, i spoke with him at the last UDS about this issue
[17:43] <len> It depends on PA's ideas as to what is right or the right way of doing things.
[17:44] <ScottL> so this coming week i hope to focus on jack rt and pulseaudio<->jack
[17:44] <cfhowlett> I only do LTS releases, so if 12.04 will be ready, I wholeheartedly support the LTS application.
[17:44] <len> I think the question is not support so much as " have we reached our goals for this version?"
[17:44] <ScottL> the following week i would like focus on the ubiqutiy plugin that astraljava worked up
[17:45] <len> That is: is the switch to xfce complete.
[17:45] <ScottL> len, i would posit that the goals for any version are never reached until practically at the last of the cycle
[17:45] <ScottL> the question i think we should ask, do we want to support a particular release over a given period for our users
[17:46] <ScottL> i prefer to run the LTS version until certain apps (e.g. ardour) can't be updated
[17:46] <len> I understand that, to rephrase: does it look like the switch to xfce will be complete? if it does then this would be a good time to call it LTS
[17:47] <ScottL> i'm not sure i would want that as a qualifier at this point, we can always keep updated the packages, even after release, to fix issues
[17:47] <len> ok.
[17:47] <ScottL> therefore, if something in xfce isn't where we want it, the use can install and then upgrade the package
[17:48] <len> Doesn't that happen pertty much on it's own?
[17:48] <ScottL> sometimes
[17:48] <ScottL> but perhaps we have a wrong config file and that is _our_ implementation problem
[17:48] <ScottL> not xfce's or ubuntu's or canonical's or even xubuntu's, most likely
[17:49] <ScottL> for example, i just realized two/three days again i had a config file in the wrong directory for lightdm
[17:49] <ScottL> this is probably causes some of our problems and it was a stupid mistake on my part
[17:49] <ScottL> but it's OUR problem, not anyone else's
[17:50] <len> It's why we do testing.
[17:50] <ScottL> aye :)
[17:50] <ScottL> and you have been a HUGE help in that department!
[17:50] <ScottL> and all your efforts and comments have been MOST appreciated
[17:50] <len> We expect mistakes... no mistakes means no movement.
[17:52] <len> Anyway, I'm ok with LTS if my vote has any meaning.
[17:52] <len> Anything about menus?
[17:52] <cfhowlett> If it's LTS worthy and ready, then yes.  Please.
[17:53] <astraljava> len: Of course your vote has meaning, they're all equal.
[17:54] <ScottL> len, yes, we value your vote
[17:54] <ScottL> len, as to menus, we'll see when this happens, like some of the smaller issues
[17:54] <ScottL> they might happen in march (or on the cusp) unfortunately
[17:55] <ScottL> again, i think some discussion needs to happen before we make changes
[17:55] <ScottL> len, do you still have your menu currently changed?
[17:55] <len> Ok, I have a gig gotta go. I have been working on menu files. I'll post them on the list for feed back.
[17:55] <ScottL> we might use your screenshots to further the discussion
[17:55] <ScottL> good luck at the gig
[17:56] <len> Can I get screen shots of menus? everytime I have a menu open I can't seem to do anything else.
[17:56] <ScottL> len, you can do a timed schreenshot from the menu
[17:56] <ScottL> accessories -> screenshot
[17:57] <ScottL> and choose a 5 sec delay or something like that
[17:57] <ScottL> then open the menu and wait
[17:57] <len> Ah! ok gotta go. Bye all
[18:00] <ailo> rosegarden crashed. That's how I remember it. Sudden crashes. MusE seems to be really easy to work with concerning midi, but why the hell does it install Swedish, when I have English as my system language!
[18:04] <astraljava> ScottL: What is our stance on the LTS question? Same as Xubuntu?
[18:10] <ScottL> astraljava, yes, i was going to propose the same
[18:10] <astraljava> Sounds good.
[18:11] <astraljava> ScottL: What features are we going to be driving before Beta-1? I should get the ubiquity plugins ready during Tuesday. But what else?
[18:14] <astraljava> ailo: That Muse behaviour seems really interesting. Would you be willing to debug it with me, let's say, on Wednesday or after that?
[18:25] <ScottL> astraljava, i was really hoping to get the lightdm updates pushed and verified before moving on to ubiquity plugin
[18:25] <ScottL> astraljava, but that was because i just wanted to keep things modular and simple
[18:25] <ScottL> astraljava, it doesn't have to be that way however
[18:26] <ScottL> kinda to focus on a single problem, prepare fix, verify fix, and mark it off the list
[18:28] <astraljava> ScottL: Sure, I understand that.
[18:31] <ailo> astraljava: Well, I believe the program has a bug which makes it choose the language file from some other criteria than the system language. I deleted the non English locales from /usr/share/muse/locale/* which solved my problem
[18:31] <ailo> I've posted on their forum on Sourceforge
[18:32] <ailo> Just found their bug tracker, so I will put a note there as well
[18:33] <ailo> I love working with the midi editor. Let's see if I can get more stable performance (no missing beats and buggy editing)
[18:34] <astraljava> ailo: Ok.
[18:58] <ScottL> hi shnatsel 
[18:58] <shnatsel> hi ScottL 
[19:07] <astraljava> ScottL: So, are you available on Tuesday, so we can go over the changes I've made?
[19:45] <shnatsel> aaarg looks like all the time I spent on lp:ubuntu-cdimage is wasted
[19:46] <shnatsel> it wants one and only one repo with all needed packages, and there seems to be no sane way to merge repos
[19:46] <shnatsel> well, I hope the seeds docs were useful to you at least
[20:02] <ScottL> astraljava, i will make myself available :)
[20:02] <ScottL> shnatsel, i'm sorry to hear that :/
[20:02] <ScottL> they were useful, however
[20:04] <shnatsel> not wasted then
[20:24] <astraljava> shnatsel: You should talk to LP devs, maybe there is a way after all.
[20:25] <astraljava> ScottL: Ok, cool.
[20:25] <shnatsel> astraljava: it's not about lp, it's about ubuntu ISO builds
[20:25] <shnatsel> astraljava: well, there is a way. I've found one.
[20:25] <astraljava> shnatsel: But what repos are you mentioning, then?
[20:26] <shnatsel> astraljava: I need to merge ubuntu archive with several PPAs
[20:26] <shnatsel> astraljava: well, I don't anymore.
[20:26] <astraljava> shnatsel: That's what I meant. All the repos are under LP umbrella. They might know the way.
[20:26] <shnatsel> astraljava: screwed it and rewriting in-house build system again.
[20:26] <astraljava> shnatsel: Ok.
[20:26] <shnatsel> astraljava: ah, thanks!
[20:30] <ScottL> micahg, ping
[20:30] <micahg> pong
[20:31] <ScottL> wow, hehe, thought it would be a bit :P
[20:31] <ScottL> i'm almost ready
[20:31] <ScottL> with fixes to -default-settings and -lightdm-theme
[20:31] <ScottL> testing once more after ppa rebuilds (which should be quick as there really isn't a "binary")
[20:32] <ScottL> micahg, do you have experience with icons theme and theme names?
[20:33] <ScottL> either way i would expect to have the bzr changes pushed in about a hour (i need to run to store with kids first)
[21:47] <ScottL> micahg, if i have a single bug for which i have several lines in the changefile, can i do the following:
[21:47] <ScottL>   [bug #000000]
[21:47] <ScottL>    
[21:48] <ScottL>    * fixed this
[21:48] <ScottL>   * fixed that
[21:48] <ScottL> etc?
[21:48] <micahg> well, would be LP: #XXXXXX, but yeah
[21:49] <knome> here i am
[21:50] <ScottL> hehe, yeah, thank you micahg, just tidying up changelog and seeing if i need another bug report
[21:50] <ScottL> hi knome 
[21:50] <knome> hey!
[21:50] <knome> what's up?
[21:51] <ScottL> just working on the -default-settings and -lightdm-theme packages so the iso should boot without problems finally
[21:51] <knome> right
[21:51] <knome> good luck with that
[21:51] <ScottL> i'm feeling good about what i got
[21:53] <knome> what about the cards?
[21:53] <ScottL> knome, also, astraljava and i should be testing the ubiquity plugin on tuesday as well
[21:53] <knome> oo, shiny
[21:54] <knome> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-xubuntu.html
[21:54] <knome> cabin crew prepare for landing!
[21:54] <ScottL> knome, hmmm, cards...i still have about three things to do tonight and a meeting at work on tuesday for which i REALLY need to prepare, so let's say wednesday i will make changes
[21:54] <knome> changes? :)
[21:55] <ScottL> alsdllkfjlaklkaslkdflk
[21:55] <ScottL> sorry, was thinking slideshow
[21:55] <ScottL> hehehe, my bad
[21:55] <knome> hehe, that's fine :D
[21:55] <knome> changes with cards are fine too...
[21:55] <knome> just want to know you'll get them safely to your printer - assuming you will send them to one :)
[21:55] <ScottL> i'd actually like to wait until later for the slideshow if possible actually 
[21:55] <ScottL> knome, yes, i would like to send them to a printer and i do not have any changes :)
[21:56] <knome> no problem, i can upload what we got now to the main branch
[21:56] <knome> or do you want me to hold that too?
[21:56] <ScottL> knome, that is a good idea, at least we have something and we can change it as well
[21:56] <knome> okay, great
[21:56] <knome> i'll do that tonight
[21:56] <ScottL> s/well/will
[21:56] <ScottL> thank you again knome, without you and shimmer/xubuntu we would have not gotten many things done
[21:56] <knome> np, happy to help
[21:57] <ScottL> i wish i knew more and could do more to help you
[21:57] <ScottL> but i'm learning a lot (which i really enjoy doing)
[21:58] <knome> nah, this is fine
[22:00] <knome> i've made a merge proposal
[22:00] <knome> added dylan mccall as the reviewer, since he knows the internal stuff
[22:01] <knome> and that would be https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/precise/+merge/93750
[22:09] <astraljava> knome: Yeah, I intend to finish both ubiquity plugins on Tuesday, I'll be home tomorrow evening.
[22:29] <knome> astraljava, nice :)
[22:29] <knome> astraljava, how are you, btw?
[22:33] <astraljava> I'm okay, really tired, but happy that the trip is almost over. Both interviews went fine, so at least that should be good news. I didn't really enjoy the expo that much, but the greek friend is always a blast to see. As were you guys. :)
[22:34] <knome> hehe. great to hear. and thanks :)
[22:34] <knome> you're always welcome again
[22:37] <astraljava> Cheers, I intend to. :)
[22:40] <knome> great!
[22:41] <knome> we might even be able to organize an nhl-night with 3 other guys, if you're interested
[22:42] <astraljava> Of course I am! :)
[22:42] <astraljava> But I think I need to practice first. :)
[22:44] <astraljava> knome: Are you using chrome or ff?
[22:45] <astraljava> It seems chrome leaks memory like crazy now. I had to go back to ff.
[22:54] <scott-upstairs> micahg, ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme version 3:  https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme
[22:54] <scott-upstairs> micahg, ubuntustudio-default-settings version 93:  https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings/UbuntuStudio
[22:56] <scott-upstairs> micahg, hold on a second!  i realized i forgot to remove something from default-settings
[22:58] <scott-upstairs> micahg, default settings but version 94
[22:58] <scott-upstairs> i had realized that both the default-settings and lightdm packages were both doing the same thing in the pre/post inst/rm files
[22:59] <scott-upstairs> which was setting up the lightdm theme, so i moved it to lightdm where i think it should be then
[23:34] <knome> astraljava, ff
[23:40] <knome> nighty
[23:51] <len-nb> ScottL scott-upstairs (and anyone else who cares to look) http://www.ovenwerks.net/UStudiodocs/menu.html  has what I have done so far in redoing menus.
[23:51] <len-nb> Comments?