[01:01] <jrwren> rick_h: that printer thing is very funny
[11:53] <snap-l> Good morning
[11:53] <mydogsnameisrudy> morning
[12:24] <rick_h> party
[12:33] <rick_h> http://hairysun.com/blog/2012/02/19/presidents-day-decorator-sale/
[12:33] <rick_h> good workd brousch who's not here
[13:43] <snap-l> I just ordered it and will at some point read it in the cloud reader.
[14:21] <brousch> i love the python community
[14:32] <snap-l> What did they do now?
[14:33] <brousch> i emailled matt harrison of "Guide to: Learning Python Decorators" about our GRPUG meeting tonight. he said he would use one of his Amazon free ebook days to make his book free today
[14:33] <brousch> i asked for a copy to give away and he made it free for everyone
[14:36] <snap-l> Yeah, that's awesome. :)
[14:36] <snap-l> Thank you. :)
[14:38] <brousch> one of the books i should just give to you. http://www.manning.com/sande/
[14:38] <brousch> since you have kids in their target audience
[14:39] <brousch> they sent 2 copies of that
[14:40] <snap-l> If you want to send it our way, that's cool. :)
[14:41] <brousch> bleh, wrong tab
[14:41] <brousch> but i would be happy to get you in touch with my contact at manning
[14:42] <brousch> she was very helpful
[14:42] <snap-l> brousch: That would be great
[14:42] <snap-l> I think we should get back into the user group panhandling for books. :)
[14:43] <brousch> manning, packt, o'reilly, apress
[14:43]  * snap-l bought a bare Squeezebox Classic last night
[14:43] <snap-l> made a pretty low-ball offer, and the guy accepted it.
[14:43] <snap-l> Whic worries me. :)
[14:44] <snap-l> But my goal is to get rick_h to buy a Squeezebox by the end of the talk.
[14:46] <snap-l> http://www.logitech.com/en-us/speakers-audio/wireless-music-systems/devices/7934 <- Think I could get rick_h to get this by the end of the talk? :)
[14:47] <brousch> i rarely listen to music over speakers at home
[14:48] <brousch> headphones ftw
[14:48] <snap-l> brousch: Got you covered.
[14:48] <snap-l> Even on your laptop
[14:48] <brousch> but my google music is available on my laptop or in my pocket
[14:49] <snap-l> This will do FLAC
[14:49] <snap-l> and internet radio
[14:49] <brousch> i killed all my flac for mp3 320k
[14:49] <snap-l> brousch: WHY?!?!
[14:49] <brousch> google music was flaky on flac
[14:49] <brousch> and i'm no audiophile ;)
[14:49] <snap-l> brousch: I see that as a deficiency of Google Music.
[14:50] <brousch> indeed
[14:51] <rick_h> what talk is this?
[14:51] <snap-l> I'll be presenting the Squeezebox at MUG
[14:51] <snap-l> in March
[14:53] <rick_h> dude, a 1200 squeezebox?
[14:53] <snap-l> That's the audiophile version. :)
[14:53] <rick_h> hah
[14:54] <snap-l> http://www.logitech.com/en-us/speakers-audio/wireless-music-systems/devices/squeezebox-touch
[14:54] <snap-l> That's the more earth-bound version
[14:54] <snap-l> plus, I'll have coupon codes for the Logitech Store.
[14:56] <rick_h> better be a big coupon code!
[14:57] <snap-l> 35%
[15:30] <jrwren> squeezebox?
[15:31] <jrwren> way too much $
[15:31] <snap-l> jrwren: Not really. They've come down in price.
[15:31] <snap-l> and I can show you how to get set up for free. :)
[15:31] <snap-l> (well, for the cost of hardware)
[15:32] <jrwren> how?
[15:32] <jrwren> err... i'm still not clear on what it is.
[15:32] <snap-l> squeezeslave or softsqueeze
[15:32] <jrwren> is it just a network adapter
[15:32] <snap-l> No, it's a whole music ecosystem.
[15:32] <jrwren> or does it include amp/speakers
[15:33] <snap-l> Handles internet radio, music service, etc
[15:33] <jrwren> ok, squeezebox controller for iphone looks good.
[15:33] <snap-l> jrwren: You can do both
[15:33] <snap-l> There's the Radio, which is like a kitchen radio
[15:33] <snap-l> and the Touch, which can hook to an amp
[15:34] <snap-l> and the Transporter, which can eat money in pursuit of audiophile perfection
[15:34] <jrwren> lol
[15:34] <snap-l> But there's also software clients
[15:34] <jrwren> interesting.
[15:34] <jrwren> i'd love to run one on a low power something.
[15:34] <snap-l> Squeezeplay is their SqueezeOS with a Lua loader
[15:34] <jrwren> something maybe 1W that I could leave on all the time.
[15:35] <jrwren> hrm... or boots fast so I can 1 button on and be playing music in a few seconds.
[15:35] <snap-l> That's the Radio
[15:35] <snap-l> or the Touch (with speakers)
[15:35] <snap-l> I'm using the Squeezeslave client to play my music over SSH tunnel
[15:35] <jrwren> ha! awesome.
[15:36] <snap-l> so I have access to my entire library.
[15:36] <jrwren> how fast is it at scrubbing your library metadata?
[15:36] <snap-l> and because I don't own lots of bandwidth, I have it set up to transcode it to 128Kbps
[15:36] <snap-l> It's pretty quick
[15:36] <snap-l> Saves it all in sqlite with nightly checks
[15:36] <jrwren> becuase I've tried the same thing with VPN and itunes and it does not work.
[15:36]  * jrwren is checking out squeezeslave
[15:37] <jrwren> is there a last.fm plugin for squeezeslave? :)
[15:37] <snap-l> http://code.google.com/p/squeezeslave/
[15:37] <snap-l> yes
[15:37] <jrwren> oh, slave is the client.
[15:37] <snap-l> It runs on the server
[15:37] <jrwren> and you run squeeze server on your server?
[15:37] <snap-l> Yep
[15:37] <jrwren> so this is like MPD that actually works?
[15:37] <snap-l> Which supports multiple clients
[15:37] <snap-l> and it's OSS
[15:37] <snap-l> (written in Perl)
[15:37] <snap-l> _AND_ they document the protocol.
[15:38] <jrwren> are you familiar with MPD?
[15:38] <jrwren> maybe MPD didn't do the streaming.
[15:38] <jrwren> so this is MPD with streaming.
[15:38] <jrwren> sounds great.
[15:39] <snap-l> I'm not sure if I used something like MPD in the past
[15:39] <jrwren> my friend built an entire streaming internet website thing on mpd and icecast
[15:39] <snap-l> No, I didn't use it. I used Firefly (or whatever the itunes thingie was)
[15:39] <snap-l> jrwren: Nice!
[15:39] <jrwren> he built it all together. sounds like squeeze takes care of this for ya
[15:39] <krondor> I haven't really looked at audio sync stuff yet in my htpc build.  I'll need to check this out a bit.
[15:40] <jrwren> krondor: doesn't sound like this is syncing. this is streaming
[15:40] <rick_h> jrwren: did you ever see anything with the bookie tag control in FF?
[15:40] <krondor> I see there's work on squeezebox xbmc plugin so looks promising to me
[15:40] <jrwren> rick_h: i did see it once more, but didn't screenshot it.
[15:40] <snap-l> jrwren: You can sunc several players together
[15:40] <snap-l> though the software clients tend to get out of sync
[15:40] <rick_h> jrwren: so it's not 100% of the time?
[15:40] <jrwren> syncing several players?  like multiple player points playing same audio in sync?
[15:40] <snap-l> jrwren: Yep
[15:40] <jrwren> rick_h: no, it was 100% of the time, i just don't use bookie that often :)
[15:41] <jrwren> zomg, synced player would be hot.
[15:41] <snap-l> Going to check to see if the hardware players do this better.
[15:41] <rick_h> jrwren: ok, gotcha
[15:41] <jrwren> rick_h: i moved to FF aurora and now the issue is gone.
[15:42] <rick_h> jrwren: ah ok
[15:43] <rick_h> sorry, just hacking on the mobile/responsive ui and figured I'd check while I'm ui hacking
[15:43] <snap-l> krondor: Yeah, that XMBC plugin appears stalled from what I can tell
[15:44] <krondor> you're looking at the old one I think, this is the one I was looking at; http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93544
[15:45] <krondor> this is the other xbmc multiroom/sync plugin I was looking at before.  http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=78431
[15:45] <snap-l> Ah, this is a new one
[15:45] <CrusaderAD> Anyone here familiar with setting up SSH on ubuntu server?
[15:45] <krondor> but it's not exactly light, so maybe squeezebox is more practical for just music.
[15:45] <snap-l> CrusaderAD: A bit. :)
[15:46] <snap-l> krondor: Yeah, Squeezebox offloads a lot onto the server, which is perfect for how I listen to music
[15:47] <CrusaderAD> I've setp openssh-server and I can hit it from inside the LAN just fine... when I'm outside (I can test it from my droid :) ) it says connection refused. I'm pretty sure I have my firewall all setup to allow port 22, I have the same rules setup for FTP and that works just fine. Am I missing something?
[15:48] <snap-l> CrusaderAD: IF you can hit on your LAN, then there's some firewall rule preventing access to it
[15:48] <brousch> do you have a nat device in between your computer and the internet?
[15:50] <brousch> you'll need to forward some port on your internet router to port 22 on your computer
[15:51] <CrusaderAD> I was hoping it was some simple setting on the server... I have a sonicwall which sucks hardcore. I know all is open on the internet router... gotta be the sonicwall.
[15:52] <krondor> CrusaderAD:  if you're in front of the server on your LAN and trying to hit it over 3G with your droid you could see if the packet is even getting there with tcpdump.
[15:52] <brousch> it's not enough to be open on the router, if it uses nat it has to have specific ports forwarded
[15:53] <krondor> CrusaderAD:  tcpdump -i (yourinterface) port 22
[15:58] <CrusaderAD> krondor: I'll check that out
[16:00] <CrusaderAD> thanks for the suggestions, it's gotta be the sonicwall
[16:07] <snap-l> Man, I <3 Flesh Field's Reflect The Enemy
[16:07] <snap-l> Got me lip-syncing and drumming
[16:08] <rick_h> jrwren: you've got an iphone?
[16:11] <jrwren> yes, i have an iphone
[16:11] <rick_h> jrwren: can you load up https://bmark.us and let me know if it works?
[16:11] <rick_h> can enter a tag to filter and such?
[16:12] <rick_h> it's not overly pretty, but hopefully the responsive css kicks in and the tag control stuff works
[16:12] <jrwren> CrusaderAD: for test you could turn off ftp and tell ssh to listen on port21 and try it. although sonicwall might be doing deeper inspection and block that too :(
[16:12] <jrwren> rick_h: ipad ok?
[16:13] <jrwren> or do you specifically want iphone dimensions?
[16:13] <rick_h> jrwren: ipad is cool I guess
[16:13] <rick_h> it'll probably not get the mobile css media query
[16:13] <jrwren> i'll try both
[16:14] <rick_h> it's set to shrink down at 650px ish
[16:14] <rick_h> I've not messed with anything apple-ish since the JS drive UI stuff has gone in though
[16:15] <jrwren> i actually get no response when searching for a tag on ipad.
[16:15] <jrwren> same search on aurora works great.
[16:15] <rick_h> really, interesting
[16:15] <jrwren> oh.... its a case thing maybe.
[16:15] <jrwren> yup, nm.
[16:15]  * rick_h checks, didn't think tags had case
[16:15] <jrwren> i wonder if there is a case hint you can give it ipad textbox
[16:16] <rick_h> that's just a bug. I should lowercase your input on check. I lowercase all tags I think
[16:16] <jrwren> well, ipad defaults to first letter uppercase and Python gave zero results when python gave results.
[16:16] <rick_h> ah, gotcha. Yea, so I'm not lowering on completion suggest. I'll add a bug for that
[16:17] <jrwren> on phone the lack of go button makes it unclear that the input box is even there, so if no one has never seen it before they might not know the search box is there.
[16:17] <rick_h> yea, but I wanted to give it full width. I've got some polish to do there. Add some margins/padding and such
[16:17] <jrwren> everything else is pretty great.
[16:17] <jrwren> not sure if there are mediaquery options for size whe keyboard is on the screen.
[16:17] <rick_h> I might need to figure out how to add in some default text somehow, but it'll be a pita
[16:18] <rick_h> no, I can't change your keyboard
[16:18] <jrwren> its still a little wide for when phone is in portrait
[16:18] <rick_h> what is wide?
[16:18] <jrwren> i have to scroll left and right
[16:18] <jrwren> by maybe 50%
[16:19] <rick_h> oh hmm, maybe I don't have the viewport things right. It should just be 100% zoom I'd have thoght
[16:19] <rick_h> (does on my android)
[16:19] <jrwren> i'd think too.
[16:19] <rick_h> ok, well I'll have to find someone with some apple gear to play with some time. It's a first baby step
[16:19] <rick_h> thanks for the testing and the feedback onthe tag control. I knew that was going to be a pain point
[16:20] <jrwren> no prob
[16:20] <brousch> totally borked on my droid
[16:21] <rick_h> brousch: make sure to clear cache if you've ever been before
[16:21] <rick_h> mobile devices don't like to give up their cached js/css
[16:21] <brousch> i tried clear cache
[16:21] <rick_h> k, then you've probably got what _stink_ has, he says his 2.2 devices hates me to
[16:21] <rick_h> I'll check it out this weekend when they come by for the sprint
[16:22] <_stink_> brousch: you have what i have
[16:22] <_stink_> sorry, i am contagious
[16:22] <rick_h> hah
[16:23] <jrwren> raspberrypi would make a sweet squeezebox client :)
[16:23] <snap-l> jrwren: I thought about that.
[16:25] <jrwren> snap-l: if only it had 1/8" out.  I think only audio is in HDMI
[16:25] <jrwren> snap-l: pogoplug might be cool too http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1152174
[16:27] <jrwren> holy crap, there is a glut of these things. http://serverfault.com/questions/152869/low-energy-low-cost-24-7-hardware-linux-box
[16:27] <snap-l> Funny thing is the Squeezebox Radio literally has an option to enable SSH
[16:27] <snap-l> password 1234
[16:28] <snap-l> It's a busy box ARM system with a LUA loader
[16:28] <snap-l> all of the config files are in Lua
[16:28] <jrwren> cool.
[16:28] <snap-l> http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/SqueezePlay
[16:28] <jrwren> must be a lua web server too?
[16:28] <snap-l> No, server software is Perl CGI
[16:29] <jrwren> ugh.
[16:29] <jrwren> fastcgi at least?
[16:29] <snap-l> Well, consider this device used to be the SLIMp3
[16:30] <snap-l> jrwren: It runs it's own web server.
[16:30] <snap-l> You don't have to run apache to run it. :)
[16:32] <jrwren> oh!
[16:32] <jrwren> that isn't perl CGI then.
[16:32] <jrwren> that is a perl web server.
[16:32] <jrwren> rawk.
[16:35] <snap-l> Yeah
[16:36] <snap-l> Sorry, stuck in the 1990s. :)
[16:36] <snap-l> jrwren: YOu should come out to MUG next month. :)
[16:37] <jrwren> march?
[16:37] <jrwren> first tues?
[16:37] <jrwren> what is the location? i recall it not being farmingon library anymore.
[16:38] <rick_h> it's back there again
[16:38] <jrwren> oh, ok.
[16:39] <snap-l> Second Tuesday of the month
[16:39] <snap-l> So, March 13th
[16:39] <jrwren> i put it on calendar. we shall see.
[16:40] <rick_h> ah crap, I'll be out of town
[16:41] <snap-l> rick_h: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[16:42] <rick_h> snap-l: pycon waits for no man
[16:42] <brousch> snap-l: you fool. you dare compete with pycon?!
[16:42]  * snap-l plans a private demo at rick_h's bookie sprint
[16:43]  * snap-l wonders if there's a lucrative career in door-to-door music system sales.
[16:48] <PainBank> anyone here done a conversion of a .swf to an html app?  decompiling and converting and such...
[16:51] <brousch> sounds like a buttload of pain
[16:54] <PainBank> meh, there are some tools out there, that on the surface appear to make it easy to do.
[17:12] <snap-l> PainBank: I think they promise more than they deliver
[17:12] <snap-l> much like nash and flash compatibility. :)
[17:58] <snap-l> http://blog.convore.com/post/17951919109/convore-shutting-down-april-1st
[17:59] <snap-l> IN other words, just use IRC and be done with it.
[18:00] <rick_h> heh, poor convore
[18:00] <rick_h> at least they'll go strong through pycon
[18:00] <snap-l> rick_h: Wonder what the new hotness will be for Pycon. :)
[18:00] <rick_h> heh, grove.io eh? take 2
[18:01] <snap-l> Yeah, I don't see that being particularly useful
[18:03] <rick_h> hah, my coffee shop addition paid off. I made the local newspaper it seems
[18:03] <snap-l> Best not use that 15 minutes of fame all in one place.
[18:04] <brousch> i suggested convore to jesse noller for something. i wonder if that's why he responded 'lol'
[18:05] <brousch> i'm sad to see convore shut down. what they did was basically one of my ideas i never got around to.
[18:06] <snap-l> brousch: There's always room for making IRC easier to use
[18:06] <snap-l> much like AOL made newsgroups easier to use.
[18:07] <snap-l> and by extension essentially killed off newsgroups. :)
[18:07] <brousch> not irc. having a forum dedicated to conferences where the point is to continue session discussions after the talk itself
[18:07] <snap-l> I feel remiss in not participating in the last two Humble Bundles
[18:08] <snap-l> but I don't have an Android Phone (yet)
[18:08] <snap-l> and I don't know what they're producing for the Mojam bundle
[18:09] <snap-l> http://fixtstore.com/news/?p=3785
[18:10] <snap-l> Something tells me they're looking for college kids.
[18:44] <nullspace> ouch, 30k I wasn't even paid that little out of college
[18:45] <nullspace> hmm bad example, I jus tmade myself out to be a crappy coder....
[18:47] <rick_h> https://twitter.com/#!/niallohiggins/status/171664967647494144 whoa
[18:50] <snap-l> rick_h: It's only a matter of time
[18:50] <snap-l> Apache is unfortunately on the way out from the Web Server market
[18:50] <rick_h> crazy
[18:50] <nullspace> wtf
[18:54] <jrwren> rediculous.
[18:54] <jrwren> apache is kind and will remain such.
[18:54] <jrwren> ask any shared webhost.
[18:54] <snap-l> kind and slow
[18:55] <jrwren> not really.
[18:55] <nullspace> snap-l: site sources please
[18:55] <snap-l> nginx handles static content like a bat out of hell
[18:55] <snap-l> openmetalcast.com
[18:55] <snap-l> nginx
[18:55] <nullspace> yeah too bad static pages are well so 1999
[18:55] <snap-l> Sourceforge uses nginx
[18:55] <jrwren> you need to watch the node.js video that i posted on friday.
[18:55] <snap-l> nullspace: Save for jpgs and mp3 and ogg files, sure, they're 1999
[18:56] <jrwren> the event loop b.s. is basically exaclty node.js
[18:56] <jrwren> there is a reason nginx is so fast, it doesn't do as much
[18:56] <brousch> and CSS
[18:56] <jrwren> a whole lot of hosters actually use all those extra features of apache.
[18:56] <snap-l> jrwren: You're correct
[18:57] <snap-l> however, there is a huge speed increase, and no mod-rewrite BS to be had with using nginx
[18:57] <snap-l> that covers a good portion of usecases
[18:57] <jrwren> yes, but only a tiny interesting portion
[18:57] <snap-l> If you're trying to do mod_auth with LDAP and kerberos, you're better off with Apache
[18:57] <jrwren> i'd love to see the bmark where someone takes apache, removes all the modules and compares with nginx.
[18:58] <snap-l> jrwren: Tiny? Larger than you think. :)
[18:58] <jrwren> in both mpm_fork and mpm_thread.
[18:58] <jrwren> oh, and BTW, there is no reason someone can't write mpm_eventloop
[18:58] <jrwren> and then apache basically is nginx :p
[18:58] <jrwren> oh look, it already exists.  http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/event.html
[18:58] <rick_h> anyone recall off the top of their head how to extract a tarball into a specified directory?
[18:59] <jrwren> its experiemental, just like nginx :)
[18:59] <rick_h> my man page goggles are missing it
[18:59] <jrwren> rick_h: -C dir ?
[18:59] <nullspace> I'm pretty sure that's what you want
[18:59] <snap-l> jrwren: All I know is I have decent performance and understandable rules for my nginx setup
[19:00] <jrwren> i won't knock nginx at all. it is sweet.
[19:00] <snap-l> and it took me all of an afternoon to convert
[19:00] <jrwren> but i won't knock apache either, it is sweet. And I won't say nginx is any better than apache. it is just different.
[19:00] <snap-l> fair enough
[19:01] <brousch> i'm sure once nginx is feature-complete with apache it will be just as slow and bloated
[19:01] <snap-l> brousch: I doubt it
[19:01] <nullspace> I have yet to run into apache being my bottle neck, ever....
[19:02] <snap-l> nullspace: What's the largest site you've ever deployed?
[19:02] <jrwren> http://nbonvin.wordpress.com/2011/03/14/apache-vs-nginx-vs-varnish-vs-gwan/  looks like gwan i WAY better at static content
[19:02] <nullspace> snap-l: what metric would you like?
[19:02] <snap-l> nullspace: Whatever you can provide. :)
[19:02] <nullspace> but currently what I'm working on is the biggest thing I've ever touched
[19:03]  * brousch suppresses dirty responses
[19:03] <snap-l> Varnish + Nginx is quite a killer combo
[19:03] <snap-l> but varnish has it's own compromises.
[19:04] <rick_h> nullspace: apache sacrifices on memory, it's a memory hog with apps at scale
[19:04] <rick_h> nginx is more cpu bound, and less featureful
[19:04] <rick_h> it's a compromise regardless of what you choose, pick you poison
[19:04] <snap-l> rick_h is no fun.
[19:04] <rick_h> :P
[19:04] <snap-l> ;)
[19:09] <nullspace> 300K+ LOC
[19:09] <nullspace> and it's growing
[19:10] <rick_h> LOC == /dev/null
[19:10] <nullspace> so snap-l asks for what ever metric and you cut the first one I give
[19:10] <rick_h> geeze, this dicussion is a repeat of every bad dev conversation ever if it's gotten down to LoC. have fun: http://www.ohloh.net/
[19:10] <rick_h> LoC doens't mean anything to hosting
[19:11] <rick_h> you show me a coverage chart that shows you hit every LoC during a web request and I guess we can chat on that
[19:11] <jrwren> that would mean you are doign it wrong :)
[19:11] <rick_h> when it gets to the web server we're talking memory footprint, io time, number of workers,
[19:12] <snap-l> number of users
[19:12] <nullspace> 2k users
[19:12] <jrwren> concurrent requests.
[19:12] <rick_h> meh, what's a user? hits to winzip.exe?
[19:12] <snap-l> rick_h: IN my case, yes. :)
[19:12] <nullspace> rick_h: ok so what do you want?
[19:12] <rick_h> or launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs :)
[19:12] <jrwren> can you have 1024+ open files(sockets)
[19:12] <rick_h> snap-l: then in that case varnish is doing all your work, nginx/apache doesn't matter :)
[19:12] <jrwren> so once you raise your file handle limit ot 65k how close to that can you get?
[19:12] <snap-l> *snort*
[19:13] <nullspace> I really don't feel like I'm learning anything, just a lot of trolling going on
[19:13] <jrwren> lol
[19:13] <jrwren> go brad!
[19:13] <jrwren> nice call
[19:13] <rick_h> nullspace: well web appliaction measuring fall along a ton of different limits/bottlenecks (potential bottlenecks)
[19:13] <rick_h> and you end up scaling up/out depending on the limitation your app hits
[19:13] <jrwren> he left
[19:13] <rick_h> did he? crap missed it
[19:14] <rick_h> oh well, wasn't trying to troll, but damn LoC was never a useful metric of anything *sigh*
[19:14] <rick_h> even in LP land someone wants us to use LoC to measure "maint. overhead of changes"
[19:14] <rick_h> makes me cry a little inside
[19:15] <snap-l> LoC is about as useful a measure as furlongs per fortnight
[19:16] <jrwren> less so.
[19:16] <jrwren> because furlongs per fortnight is a valid velocity.
[19:16] <jrwren> LoC isn't valid for anything other than LoC
[19:18] <rick_h> at least in our case it's looking at code by looking at code
[19:18] <jrwren> snap-l: apt-cache search squeezebox says no :(  why no?
[19:18] <rick_h> saying that LoC is a server measure is a giant screwball
[19:18] <snap-l> jrwren: Have to download it from Logitech
[19:19] <jrwren> the server?
[19:19] <jrwren> i thought the linux server was open source
[19:20] <jrwren> the wiki says it is.
[19:20] <jrwren> why has no one packaged it? total bummer
[19:21] <snap-l> It is packaged.
[19:21] <snap-l> one sc
[19:21] <snap-l> sec
[19:23] <snap-l> http://www.mysqueezebox.com/download
[19:23] <jrwren> why is the deb twice the size as the mac/windows package?
[19:24] <brousch> because it's twice as awesome
[19:24] <jrwren> lol
[19:24] <snap-l> brousch: Beat me to it. :)
[19:28] <brousch> because i am twice as awesome!
[19:30] <nullspace> you guys still going at it?
[19:30] <snap-l> Nah, we're done for now.
[19:32] <nullspace> rick_h: I'm really unsure how to test our applications limits but it's a damn sight faster than what it's replacing
[19:33] <rick_h> nullspace: understand. response time is a good metric
[19:34] <brousch> is there a slashdot simulator?
[19:34] <nullspace> it's private site witha  login
[19:34] <rick_h> http://code.google.com/p/multi-mechanize/
[19:34] <brousch> that just means you need your own private cloud to run the simulator ;)
[19:34] <rick_h> sorry http://testutils.org/multi-mechanize/
[19:35] <rick_h> nullspace: yea, but you can always fake the POST request to the server with the right headers and follow the redirect for example
[19:35] <rick_h> anyway, lots of ways of load testing
[19:36] <nullspace> 8.56s, 24 requests 313.6KB  < - from firebird
[19:36] <snap-l> Could also try throwing ab at it.
[19:36] <nullspace> firebug
[19:36] <rick_h> ouch, 9s?
[19:37] <nullspace> yeah but that's loading pretty much the entire site
[19:40] <nullspace> 3.19 - JS, 2.2 for images, 1.48s - HTML
[19:40] <brousch> must be a big dashboard thing?
[19:40] <snap-l> How much of that is just getting things ready to be loaded?
[19:40] <nullspace> more like a big input system for a giant calculator
[19:41] <nullspace> snap-l: not sure where to find that for you
[19:43] <snap-l> That would be the number of seconds before your first bit of data comes back
[19:44] <nullspace> looks like 292ms
[19:45] <nullspace> 680ms for DNS, 514ms for connecting
[19:46] <snap-l> That DNS seems high to me
[19:46] <nullspace> goign through a VPN out to texas
[19:47] <snap-l> Oh, so the load times are going to be pretty skewed
[19:50] <nullspace> well me going out to texas and back to me is 2.69s, but that's lacking the user privilage code
[19:51] <nullspace> 45ms waiting
[19:51] <snap-l> Yeah, so 9s is probably more like 5s
[19:51] <brousch> ouch
[19:53] <nullspace> we did make a consciouse effrot to make the initial load the slowest but moving from page to page is almost instant
[19:54] <brousch> a reasonable compromise for a long-use-time program
[20:07] <nullspace> I haven't looked at tuning our tomcat server configs as I think out biggest gains will be made elseware
[20:13] <nullspace> basic things like gz-ing html, js and css & lowering the frequency or garbage collection are already running
[20:21] <nullspace> any suggestions
[20:22] <brousch> a dns server closer to your users?
[20:23] <brousch> actually, i guess that would be cut out the vps
[20:23] <brousch> vpn
[20:24] <jrwren> 680ms for DNS is insane. that should be <1ms :p
[20:25] <jrwren> vpn is evil.
[20:28] <nullspace> websense proxy is evil
[20:29] <nullspace> the network monkey who is learning networking as he is building it evil
[20:39] <brousch> ut oh. has greg-g defected?  https://twitter.com/#!/g_gerg/status/171694275942285313
[20:40] <greg-g> brousch: I have Ubuntu on my x220, don't worry :)
[20:40]  * greg-g came in here after posting that ready to respond to backlash ;)
[20:41] <brousch> whew
[20:55] <snap-l> heh
[20:57] <jrwren> who cares? I only use linux as server.
[20:59] <brousch> oh don't worry. you're on the list
[21:03] <snap-l> Jesus, recruiters are stupid.
[21:04] <snap-l> Got another call from the recruiter re: the "Python Web Developer" position (Which has no details other than the Python Web Developer heading"
[21:05] <snap-l> ASked them for more info so I can pass it along to other folks
[21:05] <snap-l> Next time, I block 'em. :)
[21:09] <snap-l> I should be grateful that people still call me, but dammit if it doesn't bug me when they can't take a hint.
[21:14] <snap-l> In any event, if someone wants to do Python Web Development in the Detroit area for around 60K - 80K, have I got a hot lead for you. :)
[21:18] <krondor> nullspace:  if you don't need dnssec, amazon dns looks really nice for proximity based responses to users.
[21:18] <krondor> says me never having used it :)
[21:19] <nullspace> turns out I was double VPNing out, it's a last resort in a script in the event both VPN servers appear to be down
[21:20] <nullspace> short story is my VPN timed out twice very quickly and I defaulted to my work mates internet connection, the net monkey is pulling on the cables again
[21:21] <nullspace> this is the only place where I've dropping the net connection is a vaild wayt o fix exchange
[21:21] <krondor> not true, exchange hates network transitions (wired/wireless when undocking).  Always have to kill it end that task.
[21:22] <krondor> Also VPN to non-VPN transitions w/ OutlookAnywhere... but most of these probs are because it's exchange and MAPI is evil.
[21:23] <nullspace> I think I've confused you, usually our net engineer restarts kills the network because someone is complaingin about not getting email in some remote part of the world, though being one of only two people with presistant connections to the net we are teh only ones that complaing when the net drops
[21:24] <nullspace> my email is fine
[21:25] <nullspace> that or he insitutes something funky on ISA, yes we still have an ISA firewall
[21:26] <nullspace> though I've heard some the issues might relate to the barcuda having hardware issues
[21:26] <krondor> ah yes, I thought you meant your issues changing networks with Exchange, not Exchange siezing up until he 'restarts' the network lol.
[21:27] <krondor> I keep having to beat the MS guys down with sticks to keep ISA out of here.  Every new MS box they get is like, with ISA I can do X to Sharepoint.
[21:27] <nullspace> I think I threw up in my mouth a little
[21:29] <krondor> I just scare them away with things like 'hey look at this neat plone thing.  Do you think it's like Sharepoint?'
[21:29] <nullspace> though I think the guys here could use a sharepoint server, constantly fighting to write to network shared files
[21:29] <krondor> Google Docs FTW I say
[21:30] <nullspace> if we could locallly run google docs then maybe
[21:31] <nullspace> sensetive documents, not that we put in any real work in securing things
[21:32] <krondor> box.net + google docs integration, but it's not cheap.
[21:33] <snap-l> Blazeix: BTW: XOnotic 0.5 is released, and it's awesome.
[21:33] <snap-l> Was playing it a little over the weekend.
[21:33] <snap-l> Feels like they tightened up the bits that annoyed me about Nexuiz
[21:34] <snap-l> also doesn't feel like jackrabbits on acid.
[21:34] <Blazeix> ah, cool, i'll take a look
[21:41] <nullspace> hmm I think the 248.5KB of JS on the server could use a bit of a trim
[21:45] <nullspace> on the plus side yslow gives the our site a score of 92
[21:47] <nullspace> snap-l: 5.43s (onload: 4.9s)
[21:47] <nullspace> yeah the JS is most of the wait time
[21:54] <snap-l> That's not surprising
[21:54] <snap-l> Might want to cut that up into separate files
[21:54] <krondor> Newegg was genius to make an android app... I couldn't resist http://bit.ly/ybgnsY
[21:55] <snap-l> krondor: Nice!
[21:56] <krondor> they have an 8 bay enclosure too, but the way HD prices are right now...
[21:57] <jrwren> snap-l: I think he means running the onload event
[21:59] <snap-l> jrwren: Oh, right.
[21:59] <nullspace> not all of the JS is running on load but I'd say a big chunk is