[00:03] <penguin42> ali1234: Wacky - mouse or touchpad?
[00:20] <hamitron> ali1234, sounds like my laser mouse when it gets a hair in it ;)
[00:49] <ali1234> mouse
[02:18] <Azelphur> scumbag ebuyer, buy PC off them, they send you mail next day "We miss you, please buy more"
[02:35] <hamitron> haha
[06:08] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments Demo - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/21/ubuntu-accomplishments-demo/
[07:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning
[07:53] <czajkowski> Aloha
[08:05] <AlanBell> morning
[08:06] <mattt> hey
[08:09] <daubers> Morning
[08:12] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:22] <diplo> morning all
[08:22] <MooDoo> morning
[08:33] <BigRedS> good morning!
[08:36] <MooDoo> morning
[09:16] <popey> morning
[09:18] <bigcalm> Good morning everybody :)
[09:18] <MooDoo> morning popey bigcalm
[09:19] <iclebyte> where could I grab the source code for the version of 'login' installed on ubuntu 10.04lts ?
[09:19] <czajkowski> PANCAKE day!
[09:19] <MooDoo> yay o/
[09:19]  * iclebyte had no idea it was pancake day
[09:22] <BigRedS> iclebyte: apt-get source <the package that provides it>
[09:22] <BigRedS> my favourite way to find the package that provides it is to do
[09:22] <iclebyte> just worked that out out =)
[09:22] <BigRedS> apt-file search `which <binary>`
[09:22] <BigRedS> so apt-file search `which login`
[09:23]  * iclebyte loves backticks =)
[09:23] <popey> or if it's installed already "dpkg -S `which <binary>`"
[09:25] <iclebyte> unfortunately we use a program which does telnet logins to routers and it's hard coded to look for "hostname.domain.net login:" - we just rebuilt the box it hops through to 10.04LTS and the login prompt is now "login:" which has broken everything, so from what I can see online the only way to change this is to recompile login.
[09:26] <TheAshMan> Hi, hopefully someone can help me, I'm install a PHP PECL package and it's failing claiming that it can't find evp.h from OpenSSL. "locate evp.h" returns /usr/include/openssl/evp.h. I try specifying "/usr/include/openssl" as the openssl dir but it still complains about that file..
[09:28] <AlanBell> so you have libssl-dev installed?
[09:29] <TheAshMan> Yup.
[09:30] <TheAshMan> AlanBell: Apparently, anyways :p
[09:36] <oimon> anyone have problems unlocking the screensaver in gnome-shell?
[09:37] <oimon> often the screen does not reresh, and i'm typing blind, or worse...
[09:38] <JamesTait> Happy Pancake Day! :D
[09:38] <AlanBell> TheAshMan: ok, I am out of suggestions, if you have that, it should work :)
[09:40] <oimon> bug 848562
[09:42] <AlanBell> !info python-werkzeug 10.04
[09:43] <AlanBell> !info python-werkzeug lucid
[09:50] <TheAshMan> AlanBell: Thanks anyways. I'm in the same situation. Out of ideas... :/
[10:01] <hoover> Morning all
[10:08] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] New year got off to a good start - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2012/02/21/new-year-got-off-to-a-good-start/
[10:08] <hoover> Is my ubuntu uk podcast feed dead or are folks simply taking a break?
[10:09] <AlanBell> they are on a break
[10:09]  * popey points hoover at http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/calendar/
[10:09] <zleap> good morning
[10:10] <popey> lo
[10:10] <zleap> why does http://www.raspberrypi.org/ keep getting databse errors
[10:10] <AlanBell> cue czajkowski spending lots of time explaining to Americans that chuffed means "pleased"
[10:11] <AlanBell> zleap: because it is wordpress with a mysql back end and they are running out of connections to it
[10:11] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:11] <zleap> ah
[10:11] <zleap> as in too many people trying to view website
[10:11] <popey> yes
[10:11] <AlanBell> blogs do that if you hammer them hard enough and don't tweak the settings enough
[10:11] <MooDoo> morning brobostigon
[10:11] <zleap> they are gonna hvave big problems at launch then eh
[10:11]  * popey wishes we had the time/people/infrastructure to make an ubuntu flavour for the rspberry pi
[10:12] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[10:12] <popey> not necessarily zleap
[10:12] <popey> they are using 3rd parties to distribute AIUI
[10:12] <zleap> ah
[10:12] <zleap> AIUI
[10:12] <zleap> as i understabnd it ??
[10:12] <AlanBell> zleap: the shop is not served up by wordpress
[10:12] <popey> yes
[10:12] <popey> due out "soon" isnt it?
[10:13] <zleap> by the end of the month
[10:13] <AlanBell> yeah, in a week or so
[10:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> Careful popey
[10:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> Cyanogen kill kittens when asked for ETAs
[10:13] <zleap> well that seems to be the plan anyway
[10:13] <popey> heh
 is it out yet?
 Hourd: Any minute now...
[10:17] <diplo> :D
[10:17] <czajkowski> AlanBell: most of the Americans who read my blog are used to my sayings :)
[10:17] <diplo> In there channel
[10:17] <diplo> They got fed up answering
[10:17] <popey> diplo: whats their channel?
[10:17] <popey> found it :D
[10:17] <diplo> #raspberrypi
[10:17] <diplo> :)
[10:18] <popey> hehe, loads of familiar nicks in there
[10:18] <diplo> Lot's of very in depth discussions go on in there, way way way over my head
[10:18] <diplo> Also lot's of bitching about blobs etc
[10:18] <diplo> And access to gpu etc
[10:18] <popey> fancy that
[10:19] <diplo> I scour over it, rarely get involved
[10:19] <zleap> is that on freenode ?
[10:19] <popey> try it and see zleap ☺
[10:19] <zleap> yeah seems like it
[10:20] <zleap> hey right click add to favorites makes it mujch easier to add to auto join list :D
[10:22] <zleap> i take it they will really have to ramp up production the demand is high for this
[10:22] <popey> i expect so
[10:26] <zleap> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17100224  met office needs more supercomputers
[10:27] <popey> directhex: you have a leccy car don't you? prius?
[10:29] <directhex> popey, i wouldn't call it an electric car really, but yes
[10:29] <directhex> more like a petrol with KERS
[10:29] <BigRedS> they're downright scary when they pull away on leccy
[10:29] <directhex> hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[10:29] <BigRedS> I always think of it as like some hunter killer submarine but on land
[10:29] <BigRedS> silently maneuvering
[10:30] <iclebyte> is it possible to lock down telnet to only allow specific users to login?
[10:30] <popey> directhex: how you enjoying it?
[10:31]  * popey is considering replacing a car with something nmore fuel efficient
[10:31] <zleap> pushbike
[10:31] <directhex> popey, well, it's faster than any of my previous cars, and it's a big comfortable family-size car that gets ~50mpg
[10:31] <BigRedS> motorbike
[10:31] <directhex> depending on your choice of tyre
[10:31] <directhex> and types of route driven
[10:32] <popey> pushbike and motorbike are not useful to me
[10:32] <BigRedS> mm, and a decent sized motorbike isn't much more efficient than a prius
[10:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> A VAN? popey
[10:32] <popey> I need something i can put kids in
[10:32] <BigRedS> which is a bit concerning
[10:32] <gord> get those little side cars to put on a moterbike
[10:32] <popey> heh
[10:32] <diplo> iclebyte, not that I know of.. I'd change ports and use a firewall to lock it down maybe ?
[10:33] <popey> motorbike is veto'ed here
[10:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> On Today this morning they were talking about how you can get up to £8000 disc. if you buy an electric van.
[10:34] <diplo> I want to replace my Zafira for something more Efficient, thinking VM myself
[10:34] <daubers> popey: Something you can put kids in? So a new suitcase then
[10:34] <popey> golly
[10:34] <diplo> VW*
[10:34] <popey> think is the volvo just works and will probably go on for years
[10:34] <popey> it's just expensive to run really
[10:34] <directhex> popey, a used prius isn't a bad choice - they depreciate fast, but the way the electric system works, you don't really lose out much with an older battery - the electric is only useful for acceleration at low speeds, and creeping along in traffic
[10:35] <directhex> popey, just had to pay my tax disc. 25% credit card surcharge!
[10:35] <popey> !
[10:35] <bigcalm> That's why I used my debit card
[10:35] <directhex> sounds more impressive saying it that way than £2.50
[10:35] <bigcalm> 165 quid is enough in itself
[10:35] <popey> :D
[10:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> £190 here
[10:36] <popey> hang on, 10 quid road tax on the prius?
[10:36] <bigcalm> directhex: 10 quid tax?
[10:37] <directhex> bigcalm, yeah. i have the old 2nd generation model, so it costs me £10 a year in tax
[10:37] <bigcalm> :O
[10:37] <directhex> 3rd gen prius is free to tax
[10:37] <popey> lummy
[10:38] <bigcalm> Ok, road tax is one cost. How does it fair for fuel consumption, insurance, reliability?
[10:38] <directhex> which is funny, since the gen3 has a 1.8l engine, gen2 has 1.5l
[10:39] <directhex> bigcalm, fuel consumption is really tyre dependent. i switched to energy saving tyres and lost 3mpg. the default (expensive) bridgestones toyota use are better
[10:39] <directhex> but last less time. i wanted a tyre i could get 20+k miles from
[10:40] <TheAshMan> ./me drives a 1 Series BMW and only pays £30 a year road tax :D
[10:40] <bigcalm> Keep away from Avon. Had my front tyers for about a year and a half and the tread has almost gone
[10:40] <directhex> bigcalm, so nowadays i get 47mpg comfortably
[10:40] <TheAshMan> I also get about ~50mpg on average.
[10:40] <bigcalm> About the same as my 407
[10:41] <bigcalm> Swings and roundabouts. Finding something that is cost effective over time takes a lot of thought
[10:41] <directhex> insurance is technically a very high group, but isn't actually priced that high on the assumption that prius drivers don't hit walls very often
[10:41] <directhex> TheAshMan, diesel?
[10:42] <TheAshMan> directhex: yeah 2.0 TDI (118D Model)
[10:42] <bigcalm> That'd be nice. I'm still penalised for flood damage claim from 2007. Hopefully will see a drop next year
[10:42] <iclebyte> diplo, it's actually internal - a relic of old cisco systems
[10:42] <directhex> so my insurance cost didn't go up dramatically compared to the jazz. maybe 100ish extra in the first year.
[10:43] <directhex> reliability... not had a breakdown. servicing costs are high, especially at a dealership, but that's common to japanese brands
[10:45] <bigcalm> Considering that I'm still repaying the loan for this car, I shouldn't be looking at others
[10:46] <directhex> i've not finished paying the prius off yet
[10:47] <directhex> i'll need to keep it a while i reckon, babies are expensive
[10:47] <zleap> raspberry PI drop box port https://www.dropbox.com/votebox/8029/raspberry-pi-arm-port
[10:50] <popey> zleap: kinda duplicating a poll that already exists there
[10:50] <popey> https://www.dropbox.com/votebox/358/linux-arm-support
[10:51] <zleap> sorry,
[10:51] <diplo> iclebyte, We still have to use telnet on our system we maintain, it sucks :/
[10:55] <davmor2> morning all
[10:55] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[10:55] <bigcalm> Hi davmor2
[10:56] <czajkowski> davmor2: ello ello
[10:56] <davmor2> oh god czajkowski thinks she is a copper
[10:56] <davmor2> morning MooDoo bigcalm czajkowski how's life all
[10:57] <bigcalm> She thought that she was Kim Jong-il earlier
[10:57] <bigcalm> Full of beans. Just got my 9cell 7800mAh battery for the laptop. Waiting for the sucker to fully charge
[10:57] <bigcalm> How's you?
[11:00] <davmor2> tired but other than that rockin and a rolling
[11:01] <MooDoo> morning davmor2 life?  will be ok at 4:30
[11:04] <davmor2> MooDoo: here's something to help you through the day, http://sadtrombone.com and http://instantrimshot.com
[11:04] <MooDoo> davmor2: SFW?
[11:05] <davmor2> MooDoo: yeap
[11:12] <popey> !ask
[11:13] <popey> !patience
[11:15] <daubers> Urgh, why do people always fille RAIDS to the brim
[11:19]  * daubers sends a "I hope you have a backup of this 18TB of stuff" email
[11:19] <BigRedS> backup? but we have raid
[11:20] <diplo> 18TB!?!?!?
[11:21] <diplo> heh BigRedS - That is the normal response still, doesn't seem to sink in with anyone
[11:22] <daubers> diplo: Yeah, only a little one
[11:22] <BigRedS> diplo: At my last job I 'deleted' 1TB of their media archive by mistake to demonstrate the difference
[11:22]  * daubers gets BigRedS to sign a data waiver
[11:22] <BigRedS> That secured funding for a backup file server :)
[11:22] <BigRedS> (and then I put the files back)
[11:23] <daubers> heh
[11:23] <diplo> heh
[11:23] <diplo> My new job has FA funds for big projects :(
[11:24] <BigRedS> yeah, that backup file server had already become the mail server before it had been delivered IIRC
[11:24] <BigRedS> but we needed one of those more desperately than the studio needed to backup their artwork
[11:29] <diplo> daubers, how do you backup 18TB ?
[11:29] <diplo> Lot's of tapes, or mirror to another 18TB setup ?
[11:29] <BigRedS> tapes? How quaint :)
[11:30] <popey> ☺
[11:30] <diplo> Not use tapes at all any more ?
[11:31] <diplo> We do + other disc, + off site rsyncs
[11:31] <BigRedS> We just rsync all over the place
[11:34] <daubers> diplo: Another raid, or LTO
[11:35] <daubers> I'm talking to a company that have a big spinny disk based LTO alternative, which is quite interesting
[11:36] <diplo> I looked at that at my last place, something offered by a partner at Dell
[11:36] <daubers> LTO5 is 1.5TB, so you don't need that many tapes
[11:36] <daubers> diplo: This thing http://www.diskarchive.tvarn.eu/index.php/dachome
[11:38] <diplo> They supply the software as well ?
[11:38] <diplo> Dont get points for website design though
[11:38] <diplo> :P
[11:38] <daubers> diplo: yeah, it's all on the box. Some web based thingy. Act's like a NAS
[11:39] <diplo> Cool, discs are the way forward tbh
[11:39] <daubers> As long as you keep them spinning :)
[11:39] <daubers> Don't archive long term very well
[11:39] <diplo> heh yep
[11:39] <daubers> Which is why people seem to like LTO
[11:39] <diplo> General backup to disc, monthly to LTO would work in general for me
[11:40] <daubers> We generally get people archiving specific projects to an LTO once done. Or the rushes for a project
[11:40] <diplo> Biggest issue for me in the last job was trusting the staff to actually change the tapes :(
[11:41] <daubers> heh, yeah :)
[11:50] <BigRedS> man, I could really do with syntax highlighting of bash one-liners
[11:50] <BigRedS> which might be a sign that this should really be a script...
[12:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> I haz Battenburg :-)
[12:09] <MooDoo> yum
[12:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> A little snack before lunch
[12:09] <BigRedS> Oh, I thought you were marching on Germany
[12:09] <diplo> ooh I keep forgetting to 'Buy that for the kids' !
[12:10] <BigRedS> Germany?
[12:13]  * popey ponders lunch
[12:13] <popey> some beef left over
[12:13] <MooDoo> blimey that crept up quick
[12:14] <popey> I think i may have a throat-burning beef and mustard sandwich
[12:14] <bigcalm> Raclette cheese and red onion toasted sandwiches for me :D
[12:15] <directhex> raclette cheese outside its natual environment?
[12:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm, that's the one normally melted under a lamp isn't it?
[12:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> A swiss invention.
[12:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> Like a fondue but without the pot
[12:18] <bigcalm> Yes
[12:18] <bigcalm> But not really like a fondue as this is just cheese
[12:20]  * TheOpenSourcerer thinks mini-pork pie, sausages, cheese straws and pickles should do the trick today.
[12:20] <MooDoo> +1
[12:20] <gord> things melted under a lamp isn't really an invention, more an accident
[12:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> Am really losing-the-will-to-live writing this bloody project definition...
[12:21] <AlanBell> fondue in general is more of an "OMG look at the state of that cheese! And the bread is all stale, but we have nothing else, how are we going to eat it??"
[12:22] <BigRedS> Fancy swapping? I've a server that's haunted by qmail to excorcise
[12:23] <diplo> heh qmail, not touched that in a couple of years
[12:24] <BigRedS> I think I've managed to sidestep being seen as soembody who knows it, but somehow I seem to be viewed as someone who enjoys migrating people from it to postfix
[12:24] <diplo> Ah so when I get my vps next week or so you are the postfix man then ? :)
[12:24] <BigRedS> I enjoy it in the sense that i feel I'm doing a Good Thing for humanity, but not because of any fondness for the process...
[12:24]  * diplo jots this down
[12:24] <BigRedS> dammit
[12:25] <diplo> I only ever really knew Qmail, that's all we ever used tbh
[12:25] <BigRedS> If you're installing Debian, https://github.com/BigRedS/postfixadmin-installer might be handy
[12:25] <diplo> Once we got it how we liked it, it just worked for years
[12:25] <BigRedS> Well, you testing it would be handy for me :)
[12:25] <diplo> Cool, good for me
[12:26] <BigRedS> I think Ubuntu already has a package for that, though it should really be a dselect thing
[12:28] <diplo> ah well it was going to be an ubuntu install but can defo give it a go
[12:28] <BigRedS> That should work on Ubuntu
[12:28] <BigRedS> I tested it on whatever the last LTS was
[12:28]  * AlanBell reads a rather fine project definition document
[12:28] <diplo> Cool
[12:29] <BigRedS> but it's probably more sensible to do it the proper way with that package whose name I can't remember
[12:29] <diplo> 10.04, thats what it will go on initially
[12:29] <diplo> my $postfixadminURL = "http://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/postfixadmin/postfixadmin/postfixadmin-2.3.3/postfixadmin-2.3.3.tar.gz?r=http%3A%2F%2Fsourceforge.net
[12:29] <diplo> Hard coded the package ?
[12:30] <BigRedS> yeah
[12:30] <BigRedS> that's on the to-do-list
[12:30] <BigRedS> make it use the .deb
[12:30] <BigRedS> and put the .deb into my deb repository
[12:32] <BigRedS> in fact, if you pester me this evening, I might do it then
[12:32] <BigRedS> I'll charge work for it :)
[12:38] <diplo> Sorry boss on the phone, can test it for you in a vm tonight i guess but probably won't do it till i order my vps on Wednesday
[12:39] <BigRedS> ah, no, I've got tests going on. In fact there's another couple of bugs from this morning....
[12:39] <BigRedS> I've found that if it's going into a clean machine it's normally fine
[12:39] <BigRedS> just keeps tripping over stupid qmail/vpopmail/courier detritus getting in the way
[12:39] <BigRedS> though that's probably something to fix in our migration scripts)
[12:42] <diplo> Do you have that many setups you need to automate it with that ?
[12:44] <BigRedS> yeah, we're a hosting company
[12:44] <BigRedS> and about ten years ago we standardised on vpopmail for virtual domain mail, but that requires a courier lib that's hard to do in Lenny and deemed 'too hard' in squeeze
[12:45] <diplo> :(
[12:45] <diplo> Big company ?
[12:45] <BigRedS> well, on the plus side it means we're leaving vpopmail behind :)
[12:46] <BigRedS> 400 or so servers so probably not
[13:06] <mattt> vpopmail?  oldschool
[13:06] <mattt> i haven't heard that in ages
[13:06] <BigRedS> yeah, for good reason :)
[13:07] <mattt> we used to use that for our mail clusters too :)
[13:11] <diplo> heh, bringing memories for everyone :)
[13:14] <BigRedS> yeah, bad memories in the main
[13:23] <AlanBell> if anyone is thinking of requesting sponsorship to go to UDS-Q then today would be a really good day to fill out the form as the deadline is tomorrow http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/sponsorship/
[13:51] <daubers> \o/ pancakes in the office
[13:53] <hamitron> fatty
[13:53] <hamitron> ;/
[13:53] <daubers> but tasty
[13:53] <daubers> om nom nom nom
[13:54] <hamitron> :/
[13:54] <hamitron> I got home made cheese scones here to eat
[13:54] <hamitron> but waiting till tea break
[13:54] <popey> fatty
[13:54] <popey> ☺
[13:54] <hamitron> although, not really getting much work done
[13:54] <hamitron> ;p
[14:07] <diplo> Anyone recommend a bug tracker
[14:07] <diplo> ?
[14:07] <diplo> Or recommend what they already use in there work place
[14:07] <penguin42> they're all awful - some are more awful than others
[14:08] <diplo> :(
[14:08] <diplo> Bit's of paper and google docs sharing isn't cutting it either for me
[14:08]  * penguin42 uses a bugzilla instance at work - it does work but isn't that powerful
[14:09] <penguin42> diplo: There is request tracker for things that aren't really bugs - more like tasks to do: http://bestpractical.com/rt/
[14:09]  * penguin42 wonders if anyone has ever installed launchpad outside of canonical
[14:09] <diplo> heh, I've heard people have tried and it's quite complicated
[14:09] <diplo> Yeah used RT before, more of a task/support management
[14:09] <diplo> More after bugzilla type affair
[14:10] <penguin42> lp doesn't seem too bad - except given the number of timeouts we get I'd say it can't cope with the load; probably not an issue inside a company
[14:10] <ormiret> diplo: I use trac and quite like it
[14:10] <diplo> Will take a look ta
[14:11] <czajkowski> gord: davmor2 popey how do ye manage the lunch thing? take a break go for a walk or munch at your desk ?
[14:12] <davmor2> czajkowski: well I go downstairs and eat as my office is effectively the spare bedroom.
[14:12] <czajkowski> nods
[14:13] <davmor2> czajkowski: to be honest though if you sit and eat where the pc is you won't have a break as such is what I found
[14:14] <bigcalm> czajkowski: I watch a little tv, do washing up, laundry, mow the lawn, do food shopping. Usually washing up kills most of the lunch break though
[14:14] <popey> czajkowski: i go to the kitchen put the radio on, do some washing, empty the dishwasher etc
[14:14] <popey> whilst my soup cooks
[14:15] <bigcalm> Do something completely unrelated to using a computer
[14:15] <bigcalm> You need to disconnect
[14:15] <diplo> davmor2, czajkowski : I am really bad at not taking lunches ( Leaving the office / desk is a must imo ) otherwise you won't do it
[14:15] <diplo> I don't do it atm, feel shit for it as well
[14:15] <bigcalm> !ohmy | diplo
[14:16] <diplo> pfft :)
[14:16] <czajkowski> nods went to shop to get pancake stuff
[14:16] <czajkowski> but that doenst take long
[14:16] <czajkowski> just need to work on that
[14:16] <czajkowski> cheers
[14:16] <gord> depends on how busy i am really
[14:17] <gord> past few weeks i've been at my desk every lunch really, otherwise going into town to the coffee shop is nice, can take the laptop and carry on working after lunch before coming back later in the day
[14:19] <davmor2> mrevell: thanks for the mail to wolveslug been a bit swamped
[14:19] <mrevell> np dude
[14:22] <bigcalm> Must keep warm
[14:22] <bigcalm> Will possibly bring fingerless gloves
[14:24] <Myrtti> *sigh*
[14:24] <czajkowski> Myrtti: you ok?
[14:26] <Myrtti> yeah.
[14:36] <airurando> afternoon
[14:36] <airurando> czajkowski suggested I ask you good people for help
[14:37] <airurando> I'm only just getting used to unity (I am slow to change)
[14:37] <airurando> I am aware of global menus but not very familiar with the concept.
[14:37] <airurando> I'm only seeing 'close-min-max boxes' on some of my applications under 12.04
[14:37] <czajkowski> airurando: hiya, just a lot more unity folks in here, and and some of whom even like it unlike in other channels
[14:38] <airurando> :)
[14:38] <daubers> Is the rc6 kernel in the kernel team ppa or is it  the general release one
[14:38]  * daubers just realised he has a sandy bridge machine
[14:39] <airurando> duabers are you talking to me?
[14:40] <airurando> on some of these applications there is no top bar to move a window around on the screen
[14:41] <airurando> on some others, if there is a top bar it can't be grabbed to move the window
[14:42] <czajkowski> airurando: AlanBell was looking at min max stuff earlier on
[14:54] <daubers> airurando: Sorry, no , was just a question :)
[14:55] <AlanBell> hi airurando
[14:55] <AlanBell> that sounds like bugs :)
[14:56] <AlanBell> there are a few applications that try to draw their own menus, not using the standard APIs for the window manager to to it
[14:56] <AlanBell> such as LibreOffice and chromium and probably a few others
[14:57] <AlanBell> there are patches to rip out the application menu and make "real" menus that the unity window manager can stuff in the top bar
[14:59] <airurando> Thanks Alan Bell
[14:59] <airurando> *AlanBell
[15:05] <airurando> daubers thought so, just making sure. confused the heck out of me :)
[15:18] <gord> daubers, its in precice main
[15:19] <daubers> gord: Ta :)
[15:19] <daubers> gord: I assumed it was based on my powerstat numbers
[15:21] <popey> yeah
[15:21] <popey> tis really good
[15:21] <daubers> average of 10 watts really isn't bad
[15:22]  * daubers ruins it with rc6 off
[15:22] <daubers> s/ruin/run
[15:23] <gord> really only feels like i'm getting 5 hours or so of use out of it with this though
[15:24] <popey> stupid lenovo engineer hasn't arrived yet with my new mobo
[15:24]  * daubers wonders if he's in this IRC channel...
[15:25] <gord> this is why all service personnel should be constantly gps tracked
[15:25] <popey> ☺
[15:46] <DJones> popey: Did you fill the customer service questionnaire in that you mentioned you had for lenovo?
[15:55] <popey> not yet
[15:55]  * popey wonders who he could tickle to get bug 937885 fixed  ☺
[15:56]  * popey tickles Laney 
[15:58] <davmor2> popey: possibly because you'd know who to tickle to get it done?
[15:58] <Laney> it's in debian
[15:58] <Laney> test it and make a sync request
[15:59] <Laney> :-)
[15:59] <popey> wilco
[15:59] <bigcalm> How many mugs of coffee is too many for one day?
[15:59] <BigRedS> depends on the size of the mug
[15:59] <Laney> ∞
[15:59] <bigcalm> Normal tea mug side
[15:59] <bigcalm> sized
[16:00] <DJones> and decaff/full fat coffee
[16:00] <bigcalm> Normal cartnoire filter coffee
[16:00] <davmor2> bigcalm: if you can't get off the loo but are still drinking coffee you need to cut back
[16:00] <awilkins> For me, 2
[16:00] <BigRedS> I'd get a bit concerned at eight or nine
[16:00] <bigcalm> Currently sipping my 5th since 9am
[16:00] <awilkins> 2 cups and I'm a bit jittery
[16:01] <bigcalm> Problem is it's so easy to do
[16:01]  * AlanBell is a bit of a chain-drinker of coffee
[16:02] <DJones> one of the directors here drinks cartenoir instant, he has about 5-6 pint mugs plus gets a large costa coffee in the morning
[16:03] <awilkins> I drink cafetiere
[16:03] <awilkins> Currently I'm on Taylors Hot Lava Java, which is a bit !ka-chow! for me, but tasty.
[16:05] <DJones> awilkins: Hot lava java doesn't half give you a bit of a jolt
[16:05] <BigRedS> yeah, that's become my default thing to pick up in the supermarket
[16:05] <BigRedS> which is a bit of a change from the decaf I've been on for months
[16:06]  * AlanBell has a pack of hot lava java
[16:07] <BigRedS> has a cafetiere with some sligtly damp hot lava java in the bottom of it
[16:09] <awilkins> IMHO instant coffee is horrible
[16:09] <BigRedS> I have almost no standards whatsoever when it comes to coffee
[16:10] <DJones> BigRedS: I'm the same, my only two standards are 1) No milk in coffee, 2) No sugar in coffee
[16:11] <awilkins> Milk and sugar are permitted as long as they come with cocoa, otherwise, I agree
[16:11] <BigRedS> DJones: yes, exactly. I tried milky coffee once, and I do not understand it
[16:12] <DJones> BigRedS: There's 3 people in our office, my coffee is black, 1 coffee is black with dibble of milk, the 3rd is a grain of coffee with half a cow and a drop of water
[16:13] <BigRedS> Haha
[16:13] <BigRedS> At my last job there were six of us, each taking identical blck coffees
[16:13] <BigRedS> that was handy
[16:13] <awilkins> I also take tea black
[16:13] <awilkins> With no sugar
[16:13] <BigRedS> here, we've a milk+two sort
[16:14] <awilkins> Always hated sugar in tea, but the no-milk habit was born at university when I had no milk
[16:14] <awilkins> I could taste the leaves better
[16:14] <gord> and milk is expensive?
[16:15] <awilkins> Well, not free
[16:15] <DJones> awilkins: +1 on black tea
[16:16] <awilkins> I can't drink tea if someone who takes sugar stirs mine with their spoon
[16:16] <awilkins> Blech
[16:32]  * AlanBell will be booking tickets to http://www.royalalberthall.com/tickets/go-surrey/default.aspx
[16:42]  * MartijnVdS has tickets for this: http://www.nerinapallot.com/shop2/?order1.cfm?Basket=1@,&ProductOptionID=5013
[16:42] <MartijnVdS> uh, the London one, not the Salford one
[16:50]  * AlanBell booked one ticket
[16:53] <gord> oooh right, i forgot. we are doing sports day this year
[16:53] <diplo> Never heard of her
[16:53] <gord> i mean olympics
[16:55] <MartijnVdS> diplo: if you like singing women, give her a listen :)
[16:57] <diplo> Will do, jotted name down to try tonight at home
[16:59] <diplo> Doesn't come over your way then MartijnVdS ?
[16:59] <AlanBell> my gamesmaker applications (for helping out with sports day) are under review still
[16:59] <MartijnVdS> diplo: no, she has a young kid and she doesn't want to be on the road for too long
[17:00] <MartijnVdS> diplo: so I'll go to the special "all albums and EPs in 2 nights" show :)
[17:00] <jonsaint> hi all. im trying to get a friend of mine to insall ubuntu but hes asked me something i dont know! he wants to know if theres a programme tha he can use that alows him to copy his original dvds and store them on his pc. any ideas??
[17:00] <AlanBell> !dvd
[17:00] <AlanBell> !rip
[17:00] <diplo> Lot's jonsaint
[17:01] <diplo> lol AlanBell is there :D
[17:01] <diplo> Also handbrake is good for ripping DVD's
[17:01] <jonsaint> its nothing illegal, hes one of these thats keps a backup of evereything because his kids keep scratching the originals lol
[17:01] <diplo> jonsaint, same here :)
[17:02] <diplo> 2TB of copies and counting
[17:02] <jonsaint> so handbrake or !rip is good and easy (taking into account hes never used ubuntu before)
[17:03] <diplo> There are absolutley loads of programs out there, if you follow the links that were posted above by lubotu3
[17:03] <diplo> They will start you in the right direction
[17:05] <jonsaint> cheers. ive saved the link. il decypher it later and try to explain it to him lol
[17:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> ZOMG! http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android
[17:06] <ali1234> er
[17:06] <ali1234> there's some seriously weird stuff on that page
[17:06] <penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: Interesting
[17:07] <diplo> off home, laters
[17:07] <ali1234> i didn't know Adobe's creativity profile was certified to run on Ubuntu
[17:08] <ali1234> how do i install after effects?
[17:12] <popey> Laney: how do I convert that bug into a sync request?
[17:12] <Laney> retitle it
[17:12] <popey> bug 937885
[17:12] <popey> done :D
[17:12] <Laney> if it needs FFe you need to add that information
[17:12] <Laney> !ffe
[17:12] <Laney> Developer Life™
[17:12] <popey> ta
[17:13]  * Laney is off to https://nottingham.ac.uk/cas/aboutus/events/andrew-ritchie-public-lecture.aspx
[17:13] <Laney> maybe i'll see sladen there
[17:13] <Laney> ttyl
[17:14] <shauno> what a day :/  I have to find an ftpd I can install on windows7.  I've lost track of how manys in which this is just wrong.
[17:16] <penguin42> shauno: cygwin?
[17:16] <BigRedS> penguin42: that just makes it worse
[17:16] <penguin42> BigRedS: I guess so, but he's already in a big enough hole...
[17:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> Wonder when we'll see a Samsung Galaxy With Ubuntu? Would be pretty cool with a decent dock. A bit like the Dell Streak was supposed to do...
[17:19] <popey> its rather cool
[17:19] <AlanBell> popey: does it exist?
[17:19] <ali1234> ubuntu was ported to samsung galaxy ages ago
[17:20] <AlanBell> yeah, but in a chroot with android vnc display
[17:20] <popey> define "exist" ☺
[17:20] <ali1234> also most of the HTC HD series
[17:20] <ali1234> AlanBell: no, that's incorrect, it is a native port
[17:20]  * TheOpenSourcerer hears AlanBell begging popey for a linky so he can root his SII
[17:20] <penguin42> ali1234: Can you make a call on it?
[17:20] <ali1234> penguin42: no, but only because ubuntu has no software for making calls
[17:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> "You can also make and receive calls via the desktop - and you'll be alerted to voicemails so you can manage them while you work."
[17:21] <ali1234> do you think you'll be able to make a call on this thing?
[17:21] <popey> yes
[17:21] <popey> you can
[17:21] <ali1234> does it work like it did on the atrix?
[17:21] <popey> you can do everything an android phone does, plus you can run ubuntu desktop
[17:21] <ali1234> where you get android in a little window for making calls?
[17:21] <popey> i havent seen the old atrix, sorry
[17:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> That's a cool idea. Running Ubuntu & Android on the same kernel.
[17:21] <AlanBell> is VNC involved in the stack?
[17:21] <popey> its not vnc
[17:22] <popey> its an hdmi port with ubuntu running through that "properly"
[17:22] <popey> IYKWIM
[17:22] <popey> well, I think it's HDMI, whatever that dock thing in the picture has
[17:22] <AlanBell> so same kernel sounds like it is a chroot
[17:22] <AlanBell> http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/samsung-galaxy-s2-desktop-charge-cradle-with-hdmi-out-p31477.htm
[17:23] <AlanBell> something like that
[17:23] <bigcalm> Oh, fun
[17:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> Looks like the one in the Ubuntu picture.
[17:23] <AlanBell> so if ubuntu and android can share filesystem space that might be interesting for stuff like dropbox
[17:23] <czajkowski> gord: when is the fix for hud stealing focus from screens coming ?
[17:24] <gord> czajkowski, every time someone asks i delay it by another day ;)
[17:24] <penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: Actually the really nice use for this is where you're somewhere that you're not allowed to use a work/customers network to access the internet but want a full screen
[17:24] <czajkowski> gord: there are words for you!!!
[17:25] <gord> fantastic, wonderful, magnificent
[17:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> OK - I have to go and help at Scouts this evening - They are making pancakes. This could get messy. Better go and make some dinner first.
[17:45] <ali1234> ah, i didn't know the atrix used ubuntu anyway
[17:46] <davmor2> czajkowski: just press alt twice for now :)
[17:47] <davmor2> ali1234: there is a screenshot on another page showing that popup
[17:47] <ali1234> what popup?
[17:48] <davmor2> ali1234: the incoming call one
[17:48] <davmor2> ali1234: http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android/features-and-specs about half way down
[17:49] <ali1234> uh... a notification with buttons? i thought that was not allowed?
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: maybe they came to their senses
[17:58] <popey> heh
[18:10] <diplo> Evening
[19:44] <popey> and then it went quiet..
[19:46]  * penguin42 fell asleep
[19:47]  * popey has put tuna/pasta/cheese in the oven
[19:47] <directhex> i have leftover pasta for dindins
[19:47] <directhex> also some pancake mix
[19:48] <popey> i should make some pancakes
[19:48] <popey> i love pressing a button to remotely turn things off
[19:48] <popey> also, tacos
[19:48] <MartijnVdS> hmm tacos
[19:49] <czajkowski> am pooped, brain has been fried today on infomration over load
[19:52] <davmor2> czajkowski: Wuss
[19:52]  * jacobw forgot about pancake day
[19:52] <davmor2> jacobw: Shame on you!
[19:53] <jacobw> :(
[19:57] <jacobw> ubuntu for android..
[19:57] <jacobw> since when?!
[19:57] <BigRedS> about lunchtime
[19:57] <jacobw> oh ok
[19:57] <ali1234> since the motorola atrix was released about a year ago. seriously, why is everyone getting so excited about this?
[19:58] <czajkowski> davmor2: between opps and translations today my brain is fried
[19:58] <davmor2> czajkowski: I can run you through my day and see if you want to swap tomorrow if you like?
[19:59] <czajkowski> nope am good thanks :)
[19:59]  * davmor2 reverts czajkowski's status to wuss,  mind you I really don't want popey's or gord's day
[20:06] <jacobw> zzz
[20:07] <jacobw> ##canonical-whingers
[20:08] <mattt> :D
[20:08] <mattt> czajkowski: you work for canonical now?
[20:09] <czajkowski> yup
[20:09] <popey> ROCK ON!  bug 937885
[20:10] <czajkowski> popey: did the laptop man arrive?
[20:11] <popey> nope
[20:11] <czajkowski> :(
[20:11]  * AlanBell uninstalled skype and all the :i386 packages it pulled in, installed the oneiric version and in come all the :i386 things again :(
[20:12] <ali1234> then you already had the oneiric version installed
[20:12] <AlanBell> well at least it worked
[20:13] <ali1234> the natty version depends on ia32libs which doesn't exist in precise
[20:13] <ali1234> so unless there's some kind of exception handling in place to remap that package to :i386 packages, you would have had to force install it
[20:14] <ali1234> in which case it wouldn't have pulled anything in
[20:17] <mattt> czajkowski: congrats, doing anything interesting?
[20:17] <czajkowski> yup lots of stuff on the launchpad team
[20:17] <AlanBell> 2012-02-21 20:02:30 status installed ia32-libs 20090808ubuntu33
[20:18] <AlanBell> 2012-02-21 20:02:31 status installed ia32-libs-multiarch:i386 20090808ubuntu33
[20:19] <ali1234> o_O
[20:19] <AlanBell>  This is a transitional package depending on ia32-libs-multiarch, an i386-only metapackage that depends on all of the libraries that were previously included in this package.  If no other packages are installed that depend on this package, it can be safely removed.
[20:20] <ali1234> so there is an exception :/
[20:20] <mattt> czajkowski: great, now i know who to bug w/ launchpad questions (kidding, i don't really use it)
[20:21] <ali1234> oneiric skype doesn't depend on those packages though
[20:22] <mattt> AlanBell: order those chairs yet?  :D
[20:22] <ali1234> so you should no longer have them installed
[20:24] <AlanBell> mattt: TheOpenSourcerer doesn't want one, but I am up for one
[20:25] <mattt> AlanBell: let's see if popey's still interested
[20:25] <popey> depends how much
[20:25] <mattt> i doubt we'll get much discount off 3 :-/
[20:25] <popey> i have no idea how much they are
[20:26] <AlanBell> last time I asked about a similar chair from that supplier it was £225+VAT+delivery
[20:26] <mattt> AlanBell: did you say ~ 250 + VAT?
[20:26] <mattt> oh, even better
[20:27] <mattt> i'll give them a call tomorrow
[20:27] <popey> oh yeah, I'd go for one at that price
[20:28] <popey> but not a similar chair, an aeron ☺
[20:28] <AlanBell> indeed
[20:28] <diplo> Any of you guys no much about Blackberry's more to the point email setup ?
[20:28] <AlanBell> kind of network dependent
[20:28] <AlanBell> or BES dependent
[20:29] <diplo> Friend of mine keeps getting this
[20:29] <diplo> This message is used to carry data between the BlackBerry handheld and an
[20:29] <diplo> associated server. Please do not delete, move or respond to this message -
[20:29] <diplo> it will be processed by the server.
[20:29] <diplo> He's just picking up pop3 server emails
[20:30] <diplo> and gets one of these each time he sends a email
[20:30] <AlanBell> I have not seen that happen
[20:30] <diplo> 2 of his friends get same thing
[20:34] <jacobw> another network ouage?
[20:38] <mgdm> diplo: that sounds like a thing that happened with old mbox format mailboxes on Solaris machines
[20:47] <ali1234> hmm
[20:48] <ali1234> so i was just looking through IRC logs to find when i was talking about how unity is driving away the sensible contributors and leaving behind the people who can only whine
[20:48] <ali1234> and it turns out i made that little rant on pancake day last year
[20:48] <ali1234> odd coincidence
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> ali1234's yearly pancake day rant
[20:49] <Azelphur> pancakes clearly involve anger in the great ali1234
[20:49]  * MartijnVdS gets his 2013 calendar
[20:49] <Azelphur> involve? invoke*
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> Pancakes OF DOOM
[20:49] <ali1234> well i'm only doing it because of that ranty blog post doing the rounds today
[20:49] <ali1234> so my guess is pancakes invoke rage universally
[20:50] <ali1234> or i was right all along, and the pancake thing is just a bizarre coincidence
[20:53] <AlanBell> select a particular day, find a unity rant, must be a coincidence!
[20:53] <ali1234> AlanBell: it wasn't a unity rant. it was a rant from a developer about unity rants
[20:54] <ali1234> quite likely the first of many
[20:54] <ali1234> basically, the blame spiral that i predicted a year ago is now in full swing
[20:54] <ali1234> (yes, there have been rants about rants before, but not from developers)
[21:03] <AlanBell> anyone interested in participating in a paid hack day in London on 20th March, something to do with a dataset that the UK commission for employment and skills has and they want people to do interesting things with it
[21:04] <AlanBell> day and a half to two days work, day rate of £350
[21:04] <diplo> mgdm, they are probably going through a old qmail box
[21:04] <AlanBell> plus food and it would probably be quite fun, run by Rewired State
[21:06] <ali1234> AlanBell: what kind of things? like cooking the data to make things look better/worse than they actually are?
[21:06] <AlanBell> heh, no :)
[21:06] <ali1234> is the dataset available?
[21:06] <AlanBell> like mashing it up with other stuff probably
[21:06] <ali1234> like now?
[21:06] <AlanBell> no, not yet
[21:07] <AlanBell> oh I think I can post the link, this will be open to all later
[21:07] <AlanBell> http://rewiredstate.org/events/ukces-db-hack
[21:08] <popey> password protected
[21:08] <AlanBell> nekIperphuk3 is the open sesame word of the day
[21:08] <popey> oh dar
[21:08] <popey> *dear
[21:08] <popey> who designed that form?
[21:09] <AlanBell> someone who thinks they are 1337 by the look of it
[21:09] <popey> bloody hard to read
[21:10] <daftykins> hey all
[21:11] <AlanBell> "Labour Market Intelligence database" I guess that is jobcentre data or something
[21:12] <ali1234> well, i don't come up with the clever charts, i just program them to someone else's specifications
[21:14] <oly> guessing you guys have seen the ubuntu android thing, anyone know if you can do this on existing android phones ?
[21:15] <popey> its for "future" phones
[21:15] <ali1234> oly: only the motorola atrix
[21:15] <ali1234> which has had this since jan 2011
[21:15] <ali1234> and is almost certainly the phone pictured on the page
[21:16] <oly> aha cheers, got that impression just could not think why it would not work on existing phones :p
[21:16] <ali1234> it requires that the phone is able to handle two independent framebuffers on the internal display and HDMI out for one thing
[21:16] <popey> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/373024/canonical-puts-ubuntu-on-android-smartphones
[21:16] <popey> better pic there
[21:16] <ali1234> and it requires that the phone supports usb host
[21:16] <BigRedS> oh, I was hoping that was some ridiculous hack
[21:16] <ali1234> popey: yes, that is definitely the atrix
[21:17] <swat__> evening
[21:17] <ali1234> btw, xda-developers already put full ubuntu on the atrix in march last year
[21:17] <oly> damn it i just got my new phone :p
[21:17] <ali1234> the only new thing here is that canonical wants to help OEMs do it officially
[21:17] <ali1234> the atrix uses a fork of ubuntu in the official firmware
[21:18] <ali1234> http://www.xda-developers.com/android/full-ubuntu-running-on-the-atrix/
[21:20] <ali1234> in short, whether or not any existing phone can do it is entirely down to whether the kernel drivers will support it or not, which is down to the SoC vendors
[21:21] <ali1234> it may also need some proprietary software on the ubuntu side to get the full integration on incoming calls and messages
[21:21] <ali1234> but that can be rewritten if necessary
[21:22] <daftykins> stupid question of the day: do you guys usually dispose of dead bulbs in your main rubbish?
[21:22] <ali1234> yes
[21:22] <daftykins> not done it for so long i feel almost guilty at that approach XD
[21:25] <hamitron> don't the energy savers have mercury?
[21:25] <hamitron> or some anyway
[21:26] <ali1234> yeah
[21:26] <hamitron> at the rubbish tip, the council here have a separate bin for them
[21:27] <AlanBell> in America they are really jumpy about mercury from low energy bulbs
[21:28] <hamitron> I just don't like low light bulbs full stop
[21:28] <hamitron> :/
[21:28] <jacobw> in America they're really jumpy about anything new :p
[21:29] <hamitron> apart from genetically modified crops :)
[21:29] <hamitron> or nuclear bombs
[21:30] <hamitron> thinking about it, don't they normal act before thinking and knowing the facts? :/
[21:30] <daftykins> energy saving ones annoy me when they've got that delay switching on
[21:30]  * daubers loves his low energy bulbs
[21:31] <daftykins> or the really bad ones that may as well be off when you flick them on, 'til they warm up
[21:31] <hamitron> I just hate the fact I can't get any as bright as they claim to be
[21:31] <daftykins> but they're definitely a good idea
[21:31] <daftykins> oh?
[21:31]  * AlanBell has bright low energy bulbs
[21:31] <diplo> LED is probably what you want, just be ok to pay for them
[21:31] <hamitron> I need 100W bulbs
[21:32] <hamitron> that or more bulbs
[21:32] <AlanBell> plenty of nice normal ones that warm up and give your eyes a few seconds to adjust to the full glare :)
[21:32] <diplo> There are litterally 100's of models/manafacturers now
[21:32] <directhex> we've only used energy savers for years
[21:32] <directhex> including led
[21:32] <diplo> Go to an electrical wholesaler rather than sheds ( B&Q  etc ) much better selection
[21:33] <hamitron> there are none ;/
[21:33] <diplo> What wholesalers ?
[21:33] <hamitron> well, nothing local
[21:33] <diplo> Where do you live ?
[21:33] <hamitron> ordered some online, to save money ofc
[21:33] <hamitron> East Yorkshire
[21:33] <AlanBell> http://www.energybulbs.co.uk/products/Day+Light+Bulbs/Daylight+Spiral+Bulbs/DAYLIGHT+Spiral+Bulbs we got some of these ones
[21:34] <diplo> We've got customers in yorkshire, I'll find out where they are based
[21:34] <hamitron> yorkshire is no good
[21:34] <hamitron> gotta be east
[21:34] <hamitron> ;)
[21:35] <hamitron> if I have to drive 60 miles to get a light bulb to save energy, I shall just save the fuel
[21:36] <hamitron> I think the biggest problem, light bulbs are always behind ya, when working in a room
[21:36] <diplo> heh, I know we have some in that area but there are defo lot's up your way
[21:37] <diplo> Why I always use lamps
[21:37] <diplo> never have my room lights on
[21:37] <hamitron> we lack electrical sockets :/
[21:37]  * hamitron curses
[21:38] <diplo> Fit new ones :)
[21:38] <diplo> http://www.alertelectrical.com/cat/439/socket-converters
[21:38] <diplo> I used to sell lot's of those when they first came out
[21:39] <diplo> they look a bit yuck, and are slightly bigger than a normal SSO, but it works
[21:39] <hamitron> yeh, we have a few
[21:39] <hamitron> but say in the living room, the socket is near the tv
[21:39] <hamitron> and I sit at the opersite side
[21:39] <hamitron> ;)
[21:40] <diplo> Hire an electrician, or get chasing some walls out and put some twin and earth in :)
[21:40] <hamitron> normal light bulbs are cheaper and more efficient tbh
[21:41] <Azelphur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tydvxGOaEv4&t=6m55s yay for funny cats \o/
[21:41] <diplo> hamitron, I think standard lamps are getting dropped this or next year
[21:41] <hamitron> I bought 100W bulbs off market this week
[21:41] <hamitron> ;)
[21:41] <hamitron> still plenty
[21:42] <hamitron> 30p each, hard to argue
[21:42] <hamitron> now I could get LED that don't light the room for £22.....
[21:42] <hamitron> but decided against it
[21:43] <diplo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs#United_Kingdom
[21:43] <diplo> So rest will be banned by end of this year
[21:43] <hamitron> doesn't matter if there are still supplies
[21:44] <hamitron> these ones I got were removed in 2010 or 2009?
[21:45] <diplo> 2009
[21:45] <hamitron> so over 2 years after the deadline, and still can get them
[21:45] <diplo> No one i know uses them anymore
[21:45] <diplo> probably why
[21:45] <hamitron> and I got about 150 under the stairs
[21:45] <hamitron> :D
[21:45] <diplo> Do you know how much electric it costs to run them compared to an led
[21:46] <hamitron> a lot more
[21:46] <hamitron> but I also know the heat is not wasted like people claim
[21:46] <ali1234> maybe if you live in a barn
[21:47] <ali1234> i have more problems getting rid of waste heat
[21:47] <daftykins> hamitron: helps the central heating in winter amirite :D
[21:47] <ali1234> heating off, window open, 25 degrees C
[21:47] <hamitron> we don't have central heating in most of the house
[21:47] <hamitron> :/
[21:47] <hamitron> daftykins, but that is the idea ;)
[21:48] <daftykins> =]
[21:48] <diplo> ali1234, lot's of pc's running ?
[21:48] <ali1234> 2
[21:48] <hamitron> well, it is 13 C in this room atm
[21:48] <daftykins> ali1234: 25 deg inside even now with the above done?
[21:48] <ali1234> and 2 monitors
[21:49] <ali1234> daftykins: well the windows been open and the heating has been off for the past 2 days
[21:49] <daftykins> :O
[21:49] <daftykins> is it a small room?
[21:49] <ali1234> not really no
[21:49] <daftykins> when it was -3 down here in Portsmouth i was struggling to get it a bearable temperature still wearing t-shirt and jumper with the heating on
[21:50] <hamitron> only 1 jumper? ;/
[21:50] <diplo> daftykins, Same problem here, lost a lot of weight and with this cold really having issues keeping warm
[21:50] <daftykins> lol
[21:50] <hamitron> serves you right
[21:50] <hamitron> ;D
[21:50] <daftykins> knew someone would comment on few layers XD
[21:50] <hamitron> I got 2 on now ffs
[21:50] <ali1234> so far i've had the heating on for about 10 days this year
[21:50] <hamitron> :/
[21:50] <ali1234> during most of which there was snow on the ground and it was below 0 outside
[21:51] <daftykins> i've an i5 laptop with me so it's not gonna heat the room even with prime95 going ;D
[21:51] <diplo> I used to be like that ali1234 , never closed my window etc
[21:51] <diplo> then i got old and fat
[21:51] <diplo> now just old
[21:51] <diplo> :)
[21:51] <hamitron> keeps ya thighs warm though
[21:51] <daftykins> lol
[21:51] <hamitron> :)
[21:51] <daftykins> ah she's on the desk
[21:51] <ali1234> the ambient indoor temperature has never gone below 22 degrees in that time
[21:51] <daftykins> lovely little super thin Asus U36SD
[21:51] <hamitron> keeps the desk and hands warm then
[21:51] <daftykins> =]
[21:51] <hamitron> ali1234, you in a newish building?
[21:51] <ali1234> at which point i put on some socks and it was fine
[21:52] <daftykins> it's very pleasant right now, heating on, room door open, sat here in t-shirt
[21:52] <ali1234> hamitron: no, it's a proper victorian house
[21:52] <daftykins> hamitron: i nearly asked that
[21:52] <daftykins> mines an 1890s built mid-terrace
[21:53] <daftykins> http://techblo.gg/stuff/tree2.jpg
[21:53] <daftykins> :D
[21:53] <ali1234> if i turn the computers off the temperature goes down to "too cold" within about an hour
[21:53] <daftykins> are you working them that hard? :)
[21:53] <ali1234> yes
[21:53] <hamitron> :))
[21:54] <hamitron> my other room is 18 C with all the bitcoin rigs working
[21:54] <hamitron> nice in there
[21:54] <ali1234> they can't be putting out that much heat though, i'm only using about 500W electricity
[21:54] <hamitron> I not measured
[21:55] <daftykins> my Dell 24" LCDs kick out tonnes back home
[21:55] <ali1234> yeah i've got one of those too
[21:55] <daftykins> can properly feel it on the tops
[21:55] <ali1234> yeah it is worrying
[21:55] <daftykins> 2408?
[21:55] <ali1234> and when you turn it off it makes loud crunching sounds when it cools down
[21:55] <hamitron> hehe
[21:55] <daftykins> haha yeah
[21:55] <hamitron> only one thing for it..... never take a break from your comp
[21:55] <hamitron> ;)
[21:55] <daftykins> next to that comp desk is my TV, AV receiver and xbox too
[21:56] <daftykins> those add a fair bit
[21:56] <ali1234> daftykins: 2410
[21:56] <daftykins> ooo
[21:56] <daftykins> when i first went to Uni i got myself a 2407 for watching things on socially
[21:56] <hamitron> I really want my CRT to blow up damn it
[21:56] <hamitron> :/
[21:57] <daftykins> then 1.5 years later i bought 2408 - had the two side by side until i sent the 2407 off to who i sold it to
[21:57] <daftykins> and just doing that pesuaded me to have a matching pair XD
[21:57] <hamitron> nice :)
[21:57] <daftykins> hehe
[21:57] <ali1234> i also have an old samsung next to it
[21:57] <hamitron> you think it is worth having matching?
[21:57] <ali1234> not even the same size
[21:57] <daftykins> yeah it's nice for the consistency of colour reproduction
[21:57] <daftykins> it's funny though because the secondary stays off whilst the PC POSTs and boots etc
[21:58] <hamitron> I think my next display(s) will have to be rotatable and 3d
[21:58] <hamitron> :)
[21:58] <daftykins> so you actually see a difference in the colours from the primary being on a tad longer once you reach the desktop versus the secondary
[21:58] <daftykins> but of course they settle down shortly after
[21:58] <hamitron> ah, yeh
[21:59] <daftykins> and if you run ATI it'll be moot, since they typically clone output from start to OS
[21:59] <daftykins> but i'm not fond of that ;) or ATI...
[21:59] <daftykins> (AMD rather)
[21:59] <daftykins> must get out of that habit
[21:59] <hamitron> I'm torn
[21:59] <hamitron> aha
[21:59] <hamitron> feel like going intel
[22:00] <daftykins> 0o
[22:00] <hamitron> certainly going to give it a go sometime on my i3
[22:00] <daftykins> as in just go for an on-die gfx solution in a future upgrade?
[22:00] <hamitron> well, not upgrading atm
[22:00] <hamitron> done my 5 yearly upgrade
[22:00] <hamitron> :)
[22:00] <daftykins> =]
[22:01] <hamitron> and I'm sure it will all have changed in 4 years
[22:01] <hamitron> priorities now are monitors I think
[22:01] <hamitron> and maybe some new feet for my mouse
[22:02] <hamitron> and caps for my old PC
[22:03] <daftykins> :D
[22:03] <daftykins> often felt that you can have a complete heap of a PC
[22:03] <daftykins> but if the keyboard, mouse and display are good, it's such a difference
[22:03] <hamitron> oh, I only like cheap keyboards
[22:04] <daftykins> insane in the membrane? :D
[22:04] <hamitron> the older cheaper ones are nice and "clank", with each key press
[22:04] <daftykins> back shortly
[22:04] <hamitron> ok :)
[22:04] <hamitron> I agree with having a nice mouse and display though
[22:05] <Laney> dudes
[22:05] <hamitron> and any kind of rude mouse mat
[22:05] <hamitron> Laney
[22:05] <Laney> the 'virgin super hub' appears to block connections to other machines on the lan
[22:05] <Laney> know how to fix it?
[22:05] <ali1234> with a hammer
[22:05] <Laney> no, modem mode is not an option ;-)
[22:05] <Laney> yes, thanks, that is very helpful
[22:06] <hamitron> just unplugging power would stop it blocking connections, no need to be violent ali1234
[22:06] <hamitron> :/
[22:06] <ali1234> go into the configuration, find "isolation mode" or "privacy mode" and turn it off
[22:06] <ali1234> also, is this for wired machine? (highly unlikely) or just wifi?
[22:06] <Laney> one to the other
[22:06] <Laney> squeezebox to server (wired)
[22:06] <ali1234> both?
[22:07] <Laney> i am searching for this option
[22:07] <ali1234> this is a standard feature of wifi apps but i've never seen it on wired to wired connections
[22:08] <Laney> cannot see anything relevant
[22:08] <Laney> what a heap
[22:08] <ali1234> i don't even see how it would be possible to implement it given that these things only have a simple switch - it would require every packed checked by the router cpu
[22:08] <hamitron> the wrt54gl lets you separate and join them back together
[22:08] <Laney> iptables could do it quite easily
[22:08] <ali1234> does virgin still use netgear for their routers?
[22:08] <Laney> i can connect to port forwarded stuff using the external ip
[22:09] <hamitron> I'd just buy a cheap switch to plug into it
[22:09] <ali1234> that won't help for wireless
[22:09] <ali1234> which i suspect is the problem
[22:10] <Laney> it probaly doesn't route across the interfaces
[22:10] <Laney> such a pain in the bum
[22:10] <ali1234> squeezebox is wireless?
[22:10] <Laney> yes
[22:10] <mgdm> the WRT54G(L|S) routers have simple switch but it can be made into VLANs, which is probably what's ahppening there
[22:10] <hamitron> you can't bridge them?
[22:10] <ali1234> you are correct that it doesn't route across the interfaces. that is because they are bridged, so no routing is required
[22:11] <hamitron> mgdm, yep
[22:11] <ali1234> according to google, squeezebox is a wireless media player
[22:11] <Laney> correct, i just checked the netmask
[22:11] <ali1234> have i turned invisible?
[22:12] <hamitron> think he is just looking around
[22:12] <hamitron> ?
[22:12] <Laney> what
[22:13] <ali1234> the squeezebox is wireless right?
[22:13] <ali1234> and two wired clients can see each other?
[22:13] <ali1234> and the superhub is made by netgear
[22:13] <ali1234> and netgear routers support wireless isolation
[22:14] <ali1234> the configuration for which can be found in the "wireless settings" part (the part when you configure ssid)
[22:14] <ali1234> not the advanced page
[22:16] <popey> the superhub is netgear yeah
[22:17] <daftykins> i have a squeezebox, they're great pieces of kit
[22:17] <daftykins> got the classic v3
[22:20]  * directhex zunes
[22:23] <Laney> oops
[22:24] <popey> Laney: thanks for the tip off on the sync for that bug report, all done
[22:24] <Laney> nice
[22:24] <Laney> got a link?
[22:25]  * Laney is now rearranging irssi windows, silly grifferz rebooting tings
[22:25] <popey> bug 937885
[22:25] <Laney> oh, it already got sponsored
[22:25] <popey> yeah :D
[22:25] <Laney> entirely too efficient
[22:25] <popey> nice and super quick
[22:25] <popey> dead happy
[22:26] <Laney> syncs are easy peasy!
[22:26]  * Laney snuggles debian a lot
[22:30] <laney> :D
[22:30] <laney> I don't think I was meant to start my VPS up quite so soon
[22:35] <Pernig> my vps has arch
[22:36] <laney> err, good going
[22:37] <laney> this android integration is quite nice
[22:38] <laney> well, not that I know how much is concept
[22:39] <ali1234> none of it
[22:39] <ali1234> geez
[22:39] <ali1234> it's been available for a year!
[22:41] <AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gUXUjjg9qQ0
[22:42] <laney> what has been available a year?
[22:42] <ali1234> this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWIe8wQBqS0
[22:43] <ali1234> "webtop" is ubuntu btw
[22:44] <laney> something different, I see.
[22:44] <ali1234> different how? it's the same phone
[22:44] <laney> it's hardly the same interface is it
[22:45] <ali1234> well yeah... unity wasn't released ayear ago...
[22:46] <AlanBell> so what is this gnome-video-arcade thing then? I installed it and it has one line in the window saying H63484
[22:46] <AlanBell> what is it intended to do?
[22:48] <ali1234> it's a simple launcher for mame
[22:49] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/gva.png I don't know what to click
[22:49] <ali1234> "start"?
[22:49] <ali1234> you need game roms
[22:49] <AlanBell> start does nothing
[22:50] <ali1234> see above
[22:50] <popey> you need mame installed too
[22:50]  * bigcalm looks around
[22:50] <ali1234> it doesn't have a dependency for that?
[22:50] <popey> and yeah, some roms
[22:50] <popey> probably does, actually
[22:50] <AlanBell> yeah, I seem to have mame installed
[22:51] <popey> it doesnt
[22:51] <popey> because there's lots of them, and some people compile from sauce
[22:51] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gUXUjjg9qQ0#t=169s
[22:52] <popey> phone number?
[22:52] <ali1234> no
[22:52] <ali1234> that it still uses the same "mobile view" thing that the atrix uses
[22:52] <popey> ah
[22:52] <ali1234> so text messages don't actually go through telepathy
[22:53] <ali1234> you just get the cunt, if you want to read them, you get the android UI in a window
[22:53] <popey> O_O
[22:53] <ali1234> hmm that was an unfortunate typo
[22:53] <popey> heh
[22:53]  * laney eyes grifferz
[22:53] <AlanBell> ali1234 wins the typo of the week award
[22:54] <popey> what should it have been?
[22:54] <ali1234> count? obviously?
[22:55] <bigcalm> Any WolvesLUG peeps in here atm?
[22:55] <ali1234> so here's a question. if i have a TV with ubuntu TV and a phone with ubuntu and i plug them together, what happens then?
[22:55] <ali1234> yo dawg, we heard you like ubuntu so we put ubuntu for android in your ubuntu tv so you can ubuntu while you ubuntu?
[22:56] <AlanBell> I rather think that all depends on whether an OEM that sells both TVs and Phones wants to play
[22:56] <popey> i dont
[22:56] <ali1234> does it have to be the same OEM?
[22:56] <popey> its an hdmi cable
[22:56] <popey> the tv would show what the phone outputs
[22:56] <ali1234> no, you missed my point
[22:56] <popey> which might be TV UI or desktop UI
[22:57] <AlanBell> sure, that would work
[22:57] <ali1234> what if the TV has ubuntu in it as well?
[22:57] <popey> by default, at the moment, nothing special
[22:57] <popey> but thats certainly been considered
[22:57] <AlanBell> there is probably an opportunity to do something more clever, if someone wanted that
[22:57] <popey> 'multiscreen'
[22:57] <AlanBell> pip
[22:57] <ali1234> meh
[22:57] <popey> same as if you had a tablet on your lap
[22:58] <popey> and ubuntu tv on the tv
[22:58] <ali1234> let me put it another way
[22:58] <ali1234> why would i buy both in the first place?
[22:58] <popey> depends which you bought first
[22:58] <ali1234> suppose i don't have either
[22:58] <ali1234> which one should i buy?
[22:59] <popey> if you bought the phone and used it as your phone, work desktop and media player then you get 3 devices in one
[22:59] <popey> if you buy Ubuntu TV then you get one of the 3
[22:59] <gordonjcp> good evening from sunny Cumbria
[22:59] <ali1234> hmm, i would say you get 2 of the three
[23:00] <popey> yeah, dunno how much of the 'real' desktop you'll get with ubuntu tv, but ok
[23:00]  * AlanBell sticks to original assertion. If an OEM wants to link products into a "lifestyle" set like apple then they probably could.
[23:00] <ali1234> actually, if you buy the ubuntu tv you get... a media player. add the keyboard and you get the pc.
[23:00] <popey> maybe
[23:01] <popey> dunno how locked down the OEMs will make it?
[23:01] <ali1234> if you buy the ubuntu phone you get a phone. add the tv and you get the media player, but the tv comes with the media player anyway. add a keyboard and you get the pc
[23:02] <popey> there's no guarantee that you'll be able to install traditional desktop apps on the tv, might not have much storage for example
[23:02] <popey> and it might be mips ⍨
[23:02] <ali1234> the same thing goes for the phone?
[23:02] <popey> i think its less likely with the phone
[23:02] <ali1234> not much storage, definitely will be arm
[23:02] <popey> personally speakingf
[23:02] <popey> yeah
[23:02] <ali1234> and slow
[23:02] <popey> similar issues
[23:03] <popey> I dunno, either way
[23:03] <ali1234> i mean this stuff is all cool but there doesn't seem to be an end game here
[23:04] <popey> yeah, i can see that, from the outside it looks sometimes like a scattergun approach
[23:06] <ali1234> here's direct comparison of webtop sending an sms vs ubuntu: http://www.mattfacts.dangdeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/smsim.jpg
[23:06] <ali1234> http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/ubuntu-for-android-settings.jpg
[23:06] <ali1234> oh wait, that's in the settings menu. but you get the idea. it's the same software, even has the same name "mobile view"
[23:07] <AlanBell> but Webtop is meh, and Ubuntu is OMG ponies!!111
[23:08] <ali1234> yeah, pretty much
[23:15] <bigcalm[lappy]> Woof
[23:29] <Laney> much better. although he wasn't lying about the insane io load
[23:29]  * Laney crawls through treacle