[02:28] <zykotick9> as an alternative to the current !piracy factoid (which avoids the use of the word "piracy") i propose the following alternative.
 Discussion of copyright infringement and other questionably legal practices are not welcome in the Ubuntu channels. Please take this discussion elsewhere or abstain from it altogether. This includes linking to copyright protected software, music, and video. Also see !guidelines and !o4o
[02:30] <EvilResistance> zykotick9, i think if that were to be used...
[02:31] <EvilResistance> you'd first need to address that if i linked to something like the website for a paid, copyright protected software, saying "YOu need to purchase this in order to get certain functionality you want." then "linking to copyright protected software" is therefore ambiguous
[02:31] <EvilResistance> because the hypothetical situation i just stated would be linking to non-pirated stuff
[02:32] <EvilResistance> !piracy
[02:33] <zykotick9> EvilResistance: your arguing above my proposed change(s) - which is to remove the propaganda terms "piracy" and "pirated"
[02:34] <EvilResistance> i'm going to paste a line in my scrollbacks that pretty much has what i agree with coming from an IRCC member's mouth:
[02:34] <EvilResistance> AlanBell> [02/21/12 13:44:55] zykotick9: I agree with you in principle, but in practice I think the current wording is more useful
[02:35] <EvilResistance> now, i may not be on the IRCC, but i don't see how removing the word "piracy" or "pirated" from the factoid makes it any better
[02:35] <EvilResistance> (all principles aside)
[02:38] <zykotick9> EvilResistance: using "piracy" may infact be more clear to the general public, but being inside this community we should discourage it's use.  piracy on wikipedia (non-disambiguous) is theft on the high seas.
[02:39] <EvilResistance> what about this:
Piracy is the theft or distribution of copywritten, protected software, music, and video, for free use purposes.  Discussion about piracy, and other questionably legal practicies, are not welcome in the Ubuntu channels.  Please take this discussion elsewhere, or abstain from it altogether.  This includes linking to pirated software, music, and video.  Also, see !guidelines and !o4o
[02:40] <EvilResistance> erm...
Piracy is the theft or distribution of copywritten software, music, and video, for free use purposes.  Discussion about piracy, and other questionably legal practicies, are not welcome in the Ubuntu channels.  Please take this discussion elsewhere, or abstain from it altogether.  This includes linking to pirated software, music, and video.  Also, see !guidelines and !o4o
[02:40] <EvilResistance> that even.
[02:40]  * EvilResistance saw an extra comma and 'protected' got into the first one
[02:41] <zykotick9> EvilResistance: as soon as you re-introduce "piracy" you're missing my point entirely.
[02:44] <EvilResistance> zykotick9, oh btw, you know !warez is an alias to !piracy right?  If we redo the entire factoid, the factoid trigger, !piracy, would also need to be changed, no?
[02:53] <zykotick9> EvilResistance: well, as a compromise why not implement changes to the reply, and simply leave !piracy as an alias?  That way one could call !warez, and the word piracy would never be visible.
[02:54] <EvilResistance> we could instead reverse this...
[02:54] <EvilResistance> have your changes be !warez, and have !piracy be an alias to warez
[02:55] <zykotick9> EvilResistance: that would be great, but that's a larger change then i'd initially suggested
[03:06] <EvilResistance> well given this:
[03:06] <EvilResistance> !-warez
[03:06] <EvilResistance> i think that if the aim is to get rid of the word piracy, then removing piracy as the primary factoid is worthwhile
[03:08] <pangolin> all the software in the repos is copyright protected, is it not?
[03:09] <EvilResistance> pangolin, open source stuff is copyrighted?
[03:09] <pangolin> that would make "This includes linking to copyright protected software" in your suggested edit a valid argument to anyone saying you can't link to anything in the ubuntu repos
[03:10] <EvilResistance> that's also a good point
[03:10] <pangolin> open source means you can use/modify/share but it is still owned by someone
[03:10] <EvilResistance> pangolin, you need to check this channel more often :/  you make extremely valid points :P
[03:10] <pangolin> I have moments of lucidity
[03:11] <pangolin> I agree that the current factoid although not perfect is the "best" way to describe the intent of the factoid.
[03:12] <EvilResistance> pangolin, and for argument sake, what about my revision suggestion above, which includes defining piracy in context?
[03:13] <pangolin> Remember we aren't lawyers. We are regular folks trying to protect each other from breaking laws.
[03:13] <EvilResistance> ;P
[03:13] <pangolin> the easiest way is to make it simple to understand
[03:14] <pangolin> this is my personal opinion
[03:31]  * cprofitt blinks
[03:32] <cprofitt> what did I just get in to by reading this
[03:33] <EvilResistance> cprofitt, discussion about how IRC factoids are :P
[03:34] <cprofitt> phew
[03:34] <cprofitt> thought is was a copyright discussion
[03:35] <EvilResistance> cprofitt, nah, but reading your scrollbacks might prove useful
[03:35] <EvilResistance> or checking the logs for the channel
[03:36] <cprofitt> just finished that
[03:37] <cprofitt> was not going to do that if you guys said it was a copyright discussion
[03:37] <cprofitt> in common parlance warez is equated with piracy
[03:38] <cprofitt> I would probably have the same factoid for both
[03:38] <EvilResistance> which is why warez is aliased to piracy
[03:38] <EvilResistance> cprofitt, whatever we do will impact both factoids :/
[03:38] <cprofitt> ture
[03:38] <cprofitt> true
[03:39] <cprofitt> hmm...
[03:39] <cprofitt> wondering how to best word that...
[03:40] <pangolin> common parlance < I like that
[03:41] <cprofitt> I do not think we are actually prohibiting a discussion on copyright infringement
[03:41] <cprofitt> which is what the current factoid says according the scroll back
[03:42] <cprofitt> I also assume linking to copyrighted software is not an issue
[03:42] <cprofitt> the real issue is discussion how to circumvent software copyrights and protections
[03:42] <cprofitt> or rather any copyright or protection for digital content
[03:42] <cprofitt> music, movie or software
[03:45] <cprofitt> can I paste suggested language in here?
[03:45] <cprofitt> or would you prefer a pastebin?
[03:49] <cprofitt> pangolin: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/852195/
[03:49] <cprofitt> went the safer route
[03:53] <cprofitt> EvilResistance: is that something like what you were looking for?
[03:54] <EvilResistance> ask zykotick9, he started the discussion :P
[04:14] <z3x334u> hey
[04:16] <pangolin> cprofitt: looks ok but I would like to wait to see what the rest of the IRC team thinks.
[04:32] <cprofitt> pangolin: I agree... was just throwing it out there
[04:34] <pangolin> yup :)
[05:17] <tjaalton> hey there, #ubuntu-x is missing ubotu, we'd like it back
[05:19] <pangolin> tsimpson: can you look into this ^
[05:19] <pangolin> tjaalton: when tsimpson wakes up or comes back to life he will fixorz
[05:20] <tjaalton> pangolin: ok, thanks
[07:42] <jussi> jpds: thats ubot4 thats missing
[07:43] <jussi> tjaalton: Ill put ubottu there for now, please alert me or tsimpson when ubot4 comes back (and feel free to boot/quiet ubottu)
[07:43] <jussi> ubottu: join #ubuntu-x
[07:44] <tjaalton> jussi: thanks
[07:54] <Tm_T> hi tj
[08:10] <dholbach> good morning
[16:23] <AlanBell> what
[16:23] <pangolin> bot fight!
[16:24]  * pangolin puts $5 on meetingology
[17:12] <zykotick9> [this will be the last time i suggest this, promise] I think the contents of the !pirate factoid should be changed.  For background as to why, see GNU's List of Words to Void at http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#piracy  What I'm specifically suggestings: 1) leave !pirate as the factoid's main name 2) leave the various aliases unchanged 3) only change the contents of the factoid to NOT include "pirate" or a conju
[17:13] <zykotick9> Revised_v2
 Discussion of copyright infringement and other questionably legal practices are not welcome in the Ubuntu channels. Please take this discussion elsewhere or abstain from it altogether. This includes linking to copyright infringing software, music, and video. Also see !guidelines and !o4o
[17:14] <Myrtti> you got cut off at "or a conj"
[17:15] <zykotick9> Myrtti: the 1st line ends with "... or a conjugation."  Did you get lines 2 & 3?
[18:16] <Myrtti> zykotick9: I assume so
[18:21] <AlanBell> there is something not quite right about the "copyright infringing software" bit
[18:22] <AlanBell> zykotick9: how about "This includes linking to unauthorised sources of software, music, and video." for that sentence
[20:59] <zykotick9> AlanBell: I think your "unauthorised sources" does sound/read better
[21:05] <AlanBell> !-warez
[21:05] <AlanBell> !-piracy
[21:05] <AlanBell> !piracy
 Discussion of copyright infringement and other questionably legal practices are not welcome in the Ubuntu channels. Please take this discussion elsewhere or abstain from it altogether. This includes linking to unauthorised sources of software, music, and video. Also see !guidelines and !o4o
[21:06] <AlanBell> thoughts on that people?
[21:11] <Fuchs> please not elsewhere on this network ;p
[21:20] <AlanBell> a fair point
[21:24] <marienz> well, "elsewhere" is fine imo
[21:25] <marienz> "not welcome in the Ubuntu channels" might be "not welcome on freenode", but I can see you preferring the current wording
[21:39] <Myrtti> yeah, sadly some of our users don't even know they're on IRC...
[21:39] <UdontKnow> or not welcome in the Ubuntu channels neither allowed by freenode policy
[21:39] <UdontKnow> lots of possible variations there
[21:50] <AlanBell> lets focus for now on the "piracy" terminology
[21:52]  * Fuchs throws Myrtti some yarn and marienz some cookies
[21:52] <marienz> omnomnom
[21:52] <Myrtti> ooo yarn
[23:13] <micahg> bot missing in #ubuntu-packaging
[23:42] <Unit193> jpds: ubot2` missing in #ubuntu-packaging
[23:43] <Unit193> micahg: Thanks for letting them know, hope you have one soon!