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* ogra_ twiddles thumbs ...15:00
* davidm looks about15:01
meetingologyMeeting started Thu Feb 23 15:02:04 2012 UTC.  The chair is NCommander. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.15:02
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired15:02
NCommanderSorry, wasn't looking at the clock15:02
* davidm waves at NCommander 15:02
NCommanderwho's here15:02
* med_ waves15:02
* ogra_ sneezes15:02
ogra_do we wnat need an agenda today ?15:02
* GrueMaster meh15:03
NCommanderNot really15:03
NCommander[topic] Important Annoucement15:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Important Annoucement
NCommanderAs part of an effort to keep ARM development more inline with the rest of the ubuntu community, the ARM team is intergrating directly into the platform team15:04
* ppisati wasn't aware15:04
NCommanderppisati: there was a reason I said it was the final meeting on the reminder15:04
ogra_i would actually like to propose to still have arm meetings to coordinate arm work ... not as frequent, not with burndown etc but occasionally (i.e. once a month or every two or on whatever schedule) to get people doing the arm work in ubuntu to talk ...15:04
NCommander[vote] Continue ARM meetings?15:05
meetingologyPlease vote on: Continue ARM meetings?15:05
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)15:05
meetingology+1 received from ppisati15:05
GrueMasterBut I like the broken burndown chart.15:05
meetingology+1 received from med_15:05
ogra_+1 (since i proposed it)15:05
meetingology+1 received from rbasak15:05
meetingology+1 (since i proposed it) received from ogra_15:05
meetingology+1 received from GrueMaster15:05
NCommanderogra_: you broke the bot15:05
meetingology+1 received from NCommander15:05
ogra_NCommander, how could i ? :)15:05
NCommander10:05:26 < meetingology> +1 (since i proposed it) received from ogra_15:06
davidmWho is going to host the meetings?15:06
* NCommander looks at the person who proposed it15:06
rbasakGood question15:06
* rbasak nominates davidm :-)15:06
davidmogra_, it just wants +1 0 or -1 on a line nothing else15:06
meetingologyVoting ended on: Continue ARM meetings?15:06
meetingologyVotes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:015:06
meetingologyMotion carried15:06
davidmrbasak, not sure what I'll be doing going forward15:06
davidmSo it needs to be someone else15:07
ogra_davidm, nah, we use the comment feature in every rmb meeting to comment on people we vorte for15:07
* ogra_ will do it then, we can rotate it or so 15:07
NCommanderSo we'll continue the meetings in some form, not sure how often or when15:07
NCommander[action] ogra to determine new meeting schedule15:07
meetingologyACTION: ogra to determine new meeting schedule15:07
ogra_infinity, proposal was to still have arm coordination meetings at a looser schedule and with less agenda15:07
infinityI'm not convinced we need meetings for the sake of meetings.15:08
* NCommander proposes we have a meeting to discuss meetings15:08
ogra_infinity, no,. for the sake of communitcation of people working on arm stuff15:08
ogra_it shouldnt be strict and optional anyway15:08
rbasakWe have to be careful with a loose schedule though15:08
rbasakThe risk is that it stops happening15:09
infinityogra_: Well, the idea here is that people should instead be communicating about "kernel stuff" or "desktop stuff" (etc).  We don't have "amd64 meetings".15:09
ogra_just to give an opportunity to communicate on arm specific tasks15:09
ogra_hmm, true indeed15:09
ogra_nor do we have ppc ones15:09
infinityie: If you have an arm kernel issue, being it up in the kernel-team meeting.15:09
NCommanderHere's the official meeting calendar15:10
NCommanderServer team is 16:00 UTC on Tuesdays15:10
ogra_infinity, though there was a vote before you joined, and that looked like there might still be demand15:10
NCommander]Kernel is 17:00 UTC on Tuesday15:10
ogra_Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:015:10
rbasakWe don't need "amd64 meetings" because everyone is de-facto amd64. We need arm meetings because most people are still developing against non-arm, IMHO.15:10
* ogra_ would like to hear from the people that +1'ed if they could get along with that 15:10
infinityI propose a discussion period before nostalgia-based voting biases kick in. ;)15:10
ppisatii definitely can, since i'll be there anyway :)15:11
infinityrbasak: Right, but that's what we're trying to change.15:11
infinityrbasak: And it won't change if we keep having ARM stuff in separate meetings.15:11
ogra_rbasak, infinity is right here15:11
victorpyou could always have a rotating chair15:11
ogra_victorp, right, i would just have kicked it off15:11
ogra_with chair nominations at the end of every meeting15:12
rbasakinfinity: we're not in a position to change it, IMHO, because it's based on what hardware engineers are using on their own machines. Until ARM/Intel reach a 50/50 split on that, ARM will be the minority and those working on it need to have a focus15:12
infinityrbasak: Yeah, that's kinda the attitude we're trying to kill here.  That's my point. :)15:12
infinityrbasak: People should care about it, even if it's not their laptop's arch.15:12
victorprbasak, unless you count their phone15:13
infinityrbasak: And if it's not discussed in open channels and "normal" teams, that won't happen.15:13
rbasakI'm sure they do care about it15:13
* ogra_ uses arm 24/7 on his lappie :)15:13
victorpI would suggest that keeping this meeting going forward for at least until the next cycle15:13
* NCommander has an arm (and two legs)15:13
victorpand then re-review it at uds?15:13
rbasakI'm not saying that we shouldn't integrate with "normal" teams. I'm saying that ARM-specific issues that come up from there should be collaborated on in once place.15:13
rbasak*one place15:13
rbasakvictorp: +115:14
infinityrbasak: Perhaps.  Generally, kernel people don't attend desktop meetings for a reason, though. :)15:14
infinity(And most of us hate duplicated work/meetings)15:14
victorpinfinity, doesnt mean we cant do both15:14
infinityBut yeah, keeping the status quo for a little longer while we integrate won't kill us.15:14
ogra_infinity, prob here is that we dont have an arm person in every team atm15:14
ogra_else i would fully agree15:14
victorpfor certification we have a meeting to cover cert and then we have a person attending the kernel meeting to raise issues there too15:14
ogra_but there is likely arm work that has to be done cross team atm15:15
infinityogra_: It's not (ultimately) about having "arm people" on every team, but having every team actually work on ARM.15:15
victorpinfinity, isnt a bit like QA15:15
GrueMasterinfinity: No one is forcing you to attend either.15:15
ogra_how would they do that without HW or knowledge about the HW15:15
victorpeveryone does its own qa - there is still a qa meeting to discuss common things?15:15
ogra_GrueMaster, ++15:15
NCommanderWe did have a PowerPC for a long time.15:15
infinityThe HW is almost never necessary, except for kernel and installer hacking.15:15
NCommandergrammar fail15:15
victorpGrueMaster, that is the attitude  - lol15:16
infinityI'll withdraw my objections for now.  But I'm working on integration here in the long run.15:16
ogra_as i said before, optional, less frequent15:16
NCommanderPowerPC had a dedicated channel that people could go for porting help. We have #ubuntu-arm for much the same purpose15:16
ogra_once a month should suffice surely15:16
victorpinfinity, can you take an action to setup a discussion at UDS around this?15:16
victorpsince you do have valid points - if I take the action it will never happen15:17
infinityvictorp: Will do.15:17
infinityvictorp: Rick's already tasked me informally with more or less the same thing. :P15:17
NCommander[action] infinity to discuss ARM meeting existance at UDS15:17
meetingologyACTION: infinity to discuss ARM meeting existance at UDS15:17
victorpgreat minds and all that15:17
infinity(Though less about meetings, and more about deeper integration)15:18
NCommanderintegration can largely be solved with large amounts of beer and duct tape15:18
SeaJayI'm for continuing the meetings but not so much for status quo but rather to help with the transition to the new org and build cross team cooperation.15:18
infinityTo be fair, cross-team cooperation already exists, ARM's just not seen it as much, because we've been in our own weird bubble.15:19
infinityScatter us to the winds, and we might see how the rest of the distro works. ;)15:19
SeaJayYeh, cooperation wasn't the right word.15:19
ogra_they will forward their probs to linaro then :P15:19
ogra_instead of us15:19
infinityAnyhow.  Moving on.  I'll make sure this all gets solid discussion at UDS.15:19
infinityAnd I'll bring blunt objects.15:20
infinityOr wiffle bats.15:20
ogra_k, so should i still schedule it in a month from now ?15:20
* rbasak votes two weeks15:20
ogra_(will only be 3 or 4 meetings until UDS anyway on that schedule)15:21
infinityogra_: You could even register a foundations-uds-q-arm-integration (or whatever the right format is) blueprint, and assign it to me. ;)15:21
SeaJayYeh, I'd like more frequently than monthly for now myself.15:21
davidmIS there any action items from last week that should be reviewed before just dropping the old agenda?15:21
rbasakThe point being that we don't know how it'll go. If there's persistently little to discuss, we could make it less frequent then, but going in the other direction involves a long wait.15:21
ogra_infinity, feel free to create it :)15:21
infinityogra_: I was hoping I could trick you into being my personal assistant.  I'll set it up.15:22
ogra_NCommander, any actions from last week ?15:22
* NCommander checks15:22
ogra_infinity, lol, then you have to say so !15:22
ogra_just ask and you will be served :P15:22
NCommander[topic] rsalveti to follow with riku to see if chromium will get fixed15:23
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: rsalveti to follow with riku to see if chromium will get fixed
ogra_(we have to talk about the amount of salary you have to transfer indeed )15:23
infinitymicahg: What's the latest on chromium?15:23
ogra_it built !15:23
NCommanderdoes it run?15:23
* ogra_ got it with a dist-upgrade today15:23
ogra_didnt try15:23
NCommanderogra_: best try :-).15:23
ogra_just saw the package passing by15:23
infinityWait, it built?15:23
ogra_not now15:23
NCommanderI remember openoffice built, but didn't run15:23
infinityNo, chromium's still broken on armhf.15:24
ogra_will do when i dont actually use this machine :)15:24
ogra_oh, crap i run el here15:24
ogra_but even that is a novum15:24
infinitySome multiarch annoyance.15:24
ogra_it didnt buold on any arm for years15:24
infinityI'll work with micahg to see if we can resolve that.15:25
ogra_i'll test after the meeting if it actually runs on my tegra15:25
* ogra_ has all ram used up atm15:25
infinityjanimo`: Oh hai.15:26
janimo`I forgot what the itme was15:26
janimo`and noone pinged me!15:26
janimo`and hi :)15:27
ogra_we just assumed your mic was broken15:27
janimo`funny guy15:27
* GrueMaster hasn't seen an itme in a while.15:27
=== kirkland` is now known as kirkland
ogra_oh, wait that was the other meeting :P15:27
infinityNCommander: Was there anything else from last meeting?15:27
janimo`GrueMaster, did you say 'itme?15:27
NCommander[topic] rsalveti to follow with koen at ELC to see if we'll get armhf drivers for sgx (omap3)15:27
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: rsalveti to follow with koen at ELC to see if we'll get armhf drivers for sgx (omap3)
janimo`I would if I were near you15:27
ppisatiNCommander: how about omap4?15:28
ogra_ppisati, in the works15:28
rsalvetihe'll be publishing the drivers in the following weeks15:28
rsalvetihope still in time for the release15:28
rsalvetiwith a ffe15:28
ogra_waiting for ndecs team15:28
infinityrsalveti: Given that armel is unsupported, and armhf doesn't have the driver, the FFe will be a no-brainer.15:28
infinityrsalveti: But have them talk to me about it when it's time.15:29
rsalvetiFFe to include the driver for armhf15:29
infinityYeah, like I said, no-brainer.15:29
infinityHardware enablement FFes are more closely tied to kernel freeze, which is quite a way out.15:29
infinityAt least, IMO.15:29
rsalvetithat's fine then :_)15:30
janimo`is there an action item to ping nvidia about tegra-armhf or it happens whenever they get to it?15:30
ogra_good question15:30
rsalvetiI talked with a few nvidia folks at elc15:30
janimo`so ac100 is not the only armel image15:30
infinityA few different people talked to nvidia engineers at Connect.15:30
infinityAnd ELC, apparently. :P15:30
rsalvetithey said the have the armhf driver internally15:30
infinityAnd yeah, that.15:31
rsalvetiguess we just need to ping the folks to make it available for us15:31
infinityThe Engineers are building them, the release managers haven't let them be set free yet.15:31
ogra_then they should just open the gates15:31
infinityRed tape ahoy.15:31
ogra_well, with the current xorg ABI i get green bg on notification bubbles and the panel fonts look like rainbows15:32
janimo`ACTION : look for tegra-armhf drivers on thepiratebay.org15:32
ogra_camnt be worse i guess15:32
ogra_oh, and firefox CSS is acting up too15:32
ogra_o it would be good to have something new for release15:33
janimo`well the driver itself is still buggy but at least it should not hold up armhf images taking over15:33
rsalvetiand for imx53 we're still waiting feedback from freescale15:34
ogra_but with xorg updates it got a lot more buggy over the last weeks15:34
rsalvetiseems we can have the drivers, but we can't distribute them15:34
rsalvetiso, useless :-)15:34
ogra_so i dont even know if it makes sense to keep artmel around for ac10015:34
janimo`rsalveti, was that not the case even before with mx53?15:34
infinityrsalveti: Yeah, I'd love to be able to, but such is life. :/15:34
rsalvetijanimo`: yeah15:34
ogra_even with imx51 (babbage) we had that15:35
GrueMasterrsalveti: Anyone working on the usb issue with the imx53 Start-R rev?15:35
rsalvetibut anmar is working hard at linaro to make freescale to release a distributable driver15:35
rsalvetiGrueMaster: not atm, unfortunately15:35
rsalvetiGrueMaster: have the bug?15:35
infinityrsalveti: I suppose if someone has some spare time they wanted to waste, they could design an installer package that required the user to first download the tarball from Freescale.15:35
rsalvetithe team is focused on imx615:35
GrueMasterI'll file a bug later today.  Everytime I got ready to file one before, I was told to wait as a new kernel was coming.15:36
rsalvetiinfinity: that would probably work, just need someone with some spare time to do the magic script15:36
rsalvetiGrueMaster: please open it and let me know about the bug number15:36
rsalvetiwill forward it to the LT15:36
infinityrsalveti: Yeah, probably not worth the time, but if someone's feeling like a keener on private/community time.15:37
ogra_oh, btw is anyone sending out a more official announcement that the arm dem wont exist anymore ... or is NCommander's note that this was the final meeting enough ?15:38
* ogra_ glares at his fingers15:39
NCommanderSorry, power interruption15:39
NCommandercable model takes a good five minutes to powercycle15:39
NCommanderogra_: I can drop a second email to ubuntu-armel announcing the former disillusion of the team.15:40
infinityogra_: I think we'll want to wait a week or three until we have a better idea of the state of things.15:40
NCommanderthe LP group though shoul dstill be subscribed so ARM related bugs can be easily felt15:40
NCommanderinfinity: fair enough15:40
ogra_infinity, yeah, sounds sane15:40
infinityI'd like to send something more formal to ubuntu-announce in a while, but I want to make sure it's carefully worded to be positive, rather than panic-inducing.15:41
GrueMasterNCommander: Actually, tags are the preferred method for bugs.15:41
ogra_infinity, ++15:41
ogra_and also blessed by managers7teamleads15:41
infinityogra_: Yeahp.15:41
infinityogra_: I've been talking with Rick and Steve about what this all "means" for platform/Ubuntu, so I might take an action item here to draft up a formal announcement and get it reviewed and rubber-stamped.15:42
infinityBut, like I said, I think it should wait a couple weeks.15:42
NCommanderI have one final announcement15:42
rsalvetihaving a group can still be useful as we have people that only cares about arm atm15:42
rsalvetilike the folks working with linaro15:42
rsalvetiso easier to parse the bugs and such, but guess that a tag would also be useful15:43
infinityrsalveti: The LP group and ubuntu-arm channel are still valuable, IMO.15:43
ogra_rsalveti, the ubuntu-arm LP team will still exist15:43
rsalvetigreat then15:43
ogra_we already share it across different teams15:43
ogra_(which made our burndown chart look funny in the past)15:43
* ogra_ has nothing anymore15:44
NCommandergood news everyone15:45
NCommanderarmadaxp netboot images are up15:45
infinityNCommander: \o/15:45
ogra_when will we see alternates ?15:45
mahmohit even should reboot on its own now too!15:45
NCommanderogra_: wasn't planning on buildin gthem15:45
NCommanderKinda pointless when the bootloader can't load from USB15:46
ogra_oh, i thought you did15:46
mahmohit might be able to btw15:46
NCommanderI was waiting until we got a fixed bootloader from Marvell15:46
NCommandermahmoh: did that get magically fixed cause I couldn't get it to work15:46
ogra_ah, indeed15:46
mahmohif you tried a powered usb device then no15:46
GrueMastermahmoh: We tried a usb stick at the rally.15:47
NCommanderand a SD card too15:47
mahmohsd didn't work?!15:48
GrueMasterIf it did, we wouldn't be having this discussion.15:48
NCommanderI think its time to close15:49
mahmohwell reboot now works and there's a bug for unmount hanging15:49
NCommanderOne final annoucement15:49
GrueMasterAt any rate, we have 12 minutes left, and I have no idea where in the agenda we are anymore.15:49
NCommanderI would just like to say15:49
NCommanderSo long, and thanks for all the fish15:49
ogra_GrueMaster, which agenda ?15:49
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Thu Feb 23 15:49:39 2012 UTC.15:49
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-23-15.02.moin.txt15:49
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-23-15.02.html15:49
janimo`NCommander, that was abrupt15:49
ogra_not even a countdown15:50
NCommanderjanimo`: figured for once to change it :-P15:50
janimo`also to nitpick, thanks for all the fish is not an announcement :D15:50
mahmohdramatic exit ...15:50
infinitymahmoh: The umount thing is almost certainly not arch-specific.15:51
mahmohinfinity: has anyone else seen it?15:51
ogra_did you look on LP ?15:51
mahmohyes (not well evidently)15:52
infinitymahmoh: I haven't seen the particular bug, but please sort out which script is hanging/pausing/whatever and file a bug.15:52
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mahmohinfinity: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/93924015:53
ubottuError: launchpad bug 939240 not found15:53
mahmohbug 93924015:53
infinitymahmoh: No matter how many ways you type it, it still doesn't exist. ;)15:54
infinity(And this should go to another channel.  I suggest #ubuntu-devel)15:54
mahmohit's private for some reason, I should undo that15:54
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