=== JonathanS is now known as JonathanD === bazhang_ is now known as bazhang === jacob_ is now known as jacob === bladernr_ is now known as bladernr_afk === soren_ is now known as soren === cking_ is now known as cking === Claudinu` is now known as Claudinux === Claudinux is now known as Guest45614 === bladernr_afk is now known as bladernr_ [15:00] * ogra_ twiddles thumbs ... [15:01] * davidm looks about [15:02] #startmeeting [15:02] Meeting started Thu Feb 23 15:02:04 2012 UTC. The chair is NCommander. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [15:02] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [15:02] Sorry, wasn't looking at the clock [15:02] ah [15:02] hi [15:02] * davidm waves at NCommander [15:02] who's here [15:02] * med_ waves [15:02] * ogra_ sneezes [15:02] o/ [15:02] \o [15:02] So [15:02] do we wnat need an agenda today ? [15:03] * GrueMaster meh [15:03] Not really [15:03] [topic] Important Annoucement === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Important Annoucement [15:04] As part of an effort to keep ARM development more inline with the rest of the ubuntu community, the ARM team is intergrating directly into the platform team [15:04] :O [15:04] * ppisati wasn't aware [15:04] ppisati: there was a reason I said it was the final meeting on the reminder [15:04] i would actually like to propose to still have arm meetings to coordinate arm work ... not as frequent, not with burndown etc but occasionally (i.e. once a month or every two or on whatever schedule) to get people doing the arm work in ubuntu to talk ... [15:05] [vote] Continue ARM meetings? [15:05] Please vote on: Continue ARM meetings? [15:05] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) [15:05] +1 [15:05] +1 received from ppisati [15:05] But I like the broken burndown chart. [15:05] +1 [15:05] +1 received from med_ [15:05] +1 [15:05] +1 (since i proposed it) [15:05] +1 received from rbasak [15:05] +1 (since i proposed it) received from ogra_ [15:05] +1 [15:05] +1 received from GrueMaster [15:05] ogra_: you broke the bot [15:05] +1 [15:05] +1 received from NCommander [15:05] NCommander, how could i ? :) [15:06] 10:05:26 < meetingology> +1 (since i proposed it) received from ogra_ [15:06] Who is going to host the meetings? [15:06] * NCommander looks at the person who proposed it [15:06] Good question [15:06] * rbasak nominates davidm :-) [15:06] ogra_, it just wants +1 0 or -1 on a line nothing else [15:06] #endvote [15:06] Voting ended on: Continue ARM meetings? [15:06] Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 [15:06] Motion carried [15:06] rbasak, not sure what I'll be doing going forward [15:07] So it needs to be someone else [15:07] davidm, nah, we use the comment feature in every rmb meeting to comment on people we vorte for [15:07] * ogra_ will do it then, we can rotate it or so [15:07] So we'll continue the meetings in some form, not sure how often or when [15:07] [action] ogra to determine new meeting schedule [15:07] ACTION: ogra to determine new meeting schedule [15:07] infinity, proposal was to still have arm coordination meetings at a looser schedule and with less agenda [15:08] I'm not convinced we need meetings for the sake of meetings. [15:08] * NCommander proposes we have a meeting to discuss meetings [15:08] >:-) [15:08] infinity, no,. for the sake of communitcation of people working on arm stuff [15:08] it shouldnt be strict and optional anyway [15:08] We have to be careful with a loose schedule though [15:09] The risk is that it stops happening [15:09] ogra_: Well, the idea here is that people should instead be communicating about "kernel stuff" or "desktop stuff" (etc). We don't have "amd64 meetings". [15:09] just to give an opportunity to communicate on arm specific tasks [15:09] hmm, true indeed [15:09] nor do we have ppc ones [15:09] ie: If you have an arm kernel issue, being it up in the kernel-team meeting. [15:09] s/being/bring/ [15:10] Here's the official meeting calendar [15:10] http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/fridge/ [15:10] Server team is 16:00 UTC on Tuesdays [15:10] infinity, though there was a vote before you joined, and that looked like there might still be demand [15:10] ]Kernel is 17:00 UTC on Tuesday [15:10] Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 [15:10] We don't need "amd64 meetings" because everyone is de-facto amd64. We need arm meetings because most people are still developing against non-arm, IMHO. [15:10] * ogra_ would like to hear from the people that +1'ed if they could get along with that [15:10] I propose a discussion period before nostalgia-based voting biases kick in. ;) [15:11] i definitely can, since i'll be there anyway :) [15:11] rbasak: Right, but that's what we're trying to change. [15:11] rbasak: And it won't change if we keep having ARM stuff in separate meetings. [15:11] rbasak, infinity is right here [15:11] you could always have a rotating chair [15:11] victorp, right, i would just have kicked it off [15:12] with chair nominations at the end of every meeting [15:12] infinity: we're not in a position to change it, IMHO, because it's based on what hardware engineers are using on their own machines. Until ARM/Intel reach a 50/50 split on that, ARM will be the minority and those working on it need to have a focus [15:12] rbasak: Yeah, that's kinda the attitude we're trying to kill here. That's my point. :) [15:12] rbasak: People should care about it, even if it's not their laptop's arch. [15:13] rbasak, unless you count their phone [15:13] rbasak: And if it's not discussed in open channels and "normal" teams, that won't happen. [15:13] I'm sure they do care about it [15:13] * ogra_ uses arm 24/7 on his lappie :) [15:13] I would suggest that keeping this meeting going forward for at least until the next cycle [15:13] * NCommander has an arm (and two legs) [15:13] and then re-review it at uds? [15:13] I'm not saying that we shouldn't integrate with "normal" teams. I'm saying that ARM-specific issues that come up from there should be collaborated on in once place. [15:13] *one place [15:14] victorp: +1 [15:14] rbasak: Perhaps. Generally, kernel people don't attend desktop meetings for a reason, though. :) [15:14] (And most of us hate duplicated work/meetings) [15:14] infinity, doesnt mean we cant do both [15:14] But yeah, keeping the status quo for a little longer while we integrate won't kill us. [15:14] infinity, prob here is that we dont have an arm person in every team atm [15:14] else i would fully agree [15:14] for certification we have a meeting to cover cert and then we have a person attending the kernel meeting to raise issues there too [15:15] but there is likely arm work that has to be done cross team atm [15:15] ogra_: It's not (ultimately) about having "arm people" on every team, but having every team actually work on ARM. [15:15] infinity, isnt a bit like QA [15:15] infinity: No one is forcing you to attend either. [15:15] how would they do that without HW or knowledge about the HW [15:15] everyone does its own qa - there is still a qa meeting to discuss common things? [15:15] GrueMaster, ++ [15:15] We did have a PowerPC for a long time. [15:15] The HW is almost never necessary, except for kernel and installer hacking. [15:15] er [15:15] wow [15:15] grammar fail [15:16] GrueMaster, that is the attitude - lol [15:16] Anyhow. [15:16] I'll withdraw my objections for now. But I'm working on integration here in the long run. [15:16] as i said before, optional, less frequent [15:16] PowerPC had a dedicated channel that people could go for porting help. We have #ubuntu-arm for much the same purpose [15:16] once a month should suffice surely [15:16] infinity, can you take an action to setup a discussion at UDS around this? [15:17] since you do have valid points - if I take the action it will never happen [15:17] :( [15:17] victorp: Will do. [15:17] victorp: Rick's already tasked me informally with more or less the same thing. :P [15:17] [action] infinity to discuss ARM meeting existance at UDS [15:17] ACTION: infinity to discuss ARM meeting existance at UDS [15:17] great minds and all that [15:18] (Though less about meetings, and more about deeper integration) [15:18] integration can largely be solved with large amounts of beer and duct tape [15:18] I'm for continuing the meetings but not so much for status quo but rather to help with the transition to the new org and build cross team cooperation. [15:19] To be fair, cross-team cooperation already exists, ARM's just not seen it as much, because we've been in our own weird bubble. [15:19] ++ [15:19] Scatter us to the winds, and we might see how the rest of the distro works. ;) [15:19] Yeh, cooperation wasn't the right word. [15:19] they will forward their probs to linaro then :P [15:19] instead of us [15:19] Anyhow. Moving on. I'll make sure this all gets solid discussion at UDS. [15:20] And I'll bring blunt objects. [15:20] Or wiffle bats. [15:20] k, so should i still schedule it in a month from now ? [15:20] yes [15:20] ok [15:20] * rbasak votes two weeks [15:21] (will only be 3 or 4 meetings until UDS anyway on that schedule) [15:21] ogra_: You could even register a foundations-uds-q-arm-integration (or whatever the right format is) blueprint, and assign it to me. ;) [15:21] Yeh, I'd like more frequently than monthly for now myself. [15:21] IS there any action items from last week that should be reviewed before just dropping the old agenda? [15:21] The point being that we don't know how it'll go. If there's persistently little to discuss, we could make it less frequent then, but going in the other direction involves a long wait. [15:21] infinity, feel free to create it :) [15:22] ogra_: I was hoping I could trick you into being my personal assistant. I'll set it up. [15:22] NCommander, any actions from last week ? [15:22] * NCommander checks [15:22] infinity, lol, then you have to say so ! [15:22] just ask and you will be served :P [15:23] [topic] rsalveti to follow with riku to see if chromium will get fixed === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: rsalveti to follow with riku to see if chromium will get fixed [15:23] (we have to talk about the amount of salary you have to transfer indeed ) [15:23] micahg: What's the latest on chromium? [15:23] it built ! [15:23] does it run? [15:23] * ogra_ got it with a dist-upgrade today [15:23] didnt try [15:23] ogra_: best try :-). [15:23] just saw the package passing by [15:23] Wait, it built? [15:23] not now [15:23] I remember openoffice built, but didn't run [15:24] No, chromium's still broken on armhf. [15:24] will do when i dont actually use this machine :) [15:24] oh, crap i run el here [15:24] but even that is a novum [15:24] Some multiarch annoyance. [15:24] it didnt buold on any arm for years [15:25] I'll work with micahg to see if we can resolve that. [15:25] i'll test after the meeting if it actually runs on my tegra [15:25] * ogra_ has all ram used up atm [15:26] janimo`: Oh hai. [15:26] heh [15:26] I forgot what the itme was [15:26] and noone pinged me! [15:27] and hi :) [15:27] we just assumed your mic was broken [15:27] funny guy [15:27] * GrueMaster hasn't seen an itme in a while. === kirkland` is now known as kirkland [15:27] oh, wait that was the other meeting :P [15:27] NCommander: Was there anything else from last meeting? [15:27] GrueMaster, did you say 'itme? [15:27] [topic] rsalveti to follow with koen at ELC to see if we'll get armhf drivers for sgx (omap3) === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: rsalveti to follow with koen at ELC to see if we'll get armhf drivers for sgx (omap3) [15:27] I would if I were near you [15:28] NCommander: how about omap4? [15:28] ppisati, in the works [15:28] he'll be publishing the drivers in the following weeks [15:28] ok [15:28] hope still in time for the release [15:28] with a ffe [15:28] waiting for ndecs team [15:28] rsalveti: Given that armel is unsupported, and armhf doesn't have the driver, the FFe will be a no-brainer. [15:29] yeah [15:29] rsalveti: But have them talk to me about it when it's time. [15:29] FFe to include the driver for armhf [15:29] Yeah, like I said, no-brainer. [15:29] Hardware enablement FFes are more closely tied to kernel freeze, which is quite a way out. [15:29] At least, IMO. [15:30] that's fine then :_) [15:30] :-) [15:30] is there an action item to ping nvidia about tegra-armhf or it happens whenever they get to it? [15:30] good question [15:30] I talked with a few nvidia folks at elc [15:30] so ac100 is not the only armel image [15:30] A few different people talked to nvidia engineers at Connect. [15:30] And ELC, apparently. :P [15:30] they said the have the armhf driver internally [15:31] And yeah, that. [15:31] guess we just need to ping the folks to make it available for us [15:31] The Engineers are building them, the release managers haven't let them be set free yet. [15:31] then they should just open the gates [15:31] Red tape ahoy. [15:31] heh [15:32] well, with the current xorg ABI i get green bg on notification bubbles and the panel fonts look like rainbows [15:32] ACTION : look for tegra-armhf drivers on thepiratebay.org [15:32] camnt be worse i guess [15:32] oh, and firefox CSS is acting up too [15:33] o it would be good to have something new for release [15:33] well the driver itself is still buggy but at least it should not hold up armhf images taking over [15:33] yeah [15:34] and for imx53 we're still waiting feedback from freescale [15:34] but with xorg updates it got a lot more buggy over the last weeks [15:34] seems we can have the drivers, but we can't distribute them [15:34] so, useless :-) [15:34] so i dont even know if it makes sense to keep artmel around for ac100 [15:34] *armel [15:34] rsalveti, was that not the case even before with mx53? [15:34] rsalveti: Yeah, I'd love to be able to, but such is life. :/ [15:34] janimo`: yeah [15:35] even with imx51 (babbage) we had that [15:35] rsalveti: Anyone working on the usb issue with the imx53 Start-R rev? [15:35] but anmar is working hard at linaro to make freescale to release a distributable driver [15:35] GrueMaster: not atm, unfortunately [15:35] GrueMaster: have the bug? [15:35] rsalveti: I suppose if someone has some spare time they wanted to waste, they could design an installer package that required the user to first download the tarball from Freescale. [15:35] the team is focused on imx6 [15:36] I'll file a bug later today. Everytime I got ready to file one before, I was told to wait as a new kernel was coming. [15:36] infinity: that would probably work, just need someone with some spare time to do the magic script [15:36] GrueMaster: please open it and let me know about the bug number [15:36] will forward it to the LT [15:37] rsalveti: Yeah, probably not worth the time, but if someone's feeling like a keener on private/community time. [15:37] yeah [15:38] oh, btw is anyone sending out a more official announcement that the arm dem wont exist anymore ... or is NCommander's note that this was the final meeting enough ? [15:38] s/dem/team/ [15:39] * ogra_ glares at his fingers [15:39] Sorry, power interruption [15:39] cable model takes a good five minutes to powercycle [15:39] *modem [15:40] ogra_: I can drop a second email to ubuntu-armel announcing the former disillusion of the team. [15:40] ogra_: I think we'll want to wait a week or three until we have a better idea of the state of things. [15:40] the LP group though shoul dstill be subscribed so ARM related bugs can be easily felt [15:40] infinity: fair enough [15:40] infinity, yeah, sounds sane [15:41] I'd like to send something more formal to ubuntu-announce in a while, but I want to make sure it's carefully worded to be positive, rather than panic-inducing. [15:41] NCommander: Actually, tags are the preferred method for bugs. [15:41] infinity, ++ [15:41] and also blessed by managers7teamleads [15:41] ogra_: Yeahp. [15:42] ogra_: I've been talking with Rick and Steve about what this all "means" for platform/Ubuntu, so I might take an action item here to draft up a formal announcement and get it reviewed and rubber-stamped. [15:42] k [15:42] But, like I said, I think it should wait a couple weeks. [15:42] anyway [15:42] I have one final announcement [15:42] having a group can still be useful as we have people that only cares about arm atm [15:42] like the folks working with linaro [15:43] so easier to parse the bugs and such, but guess that a tag would also be useful [15:43] rsalveti: The LP group and ubuntu-arm channel are still valuable, IMO. [15:43] rsalveti, the ubuntu-arm LP team will still exist [15:43] great then [15:43] :-) [15:43] we already share it across different teams [15:43] (which made our burndown chart look funny in the past) [15:44] * ogra_ has nothing anymore [15:45] good news everyone [15:45] armadaxp netboot images are up [15:45] NCommander: \o/ [15:45] yay [15:45] \o/ [15:45] great [15:45] woot [15:45] when will we see alternates ? [15:45] it even should reboot on its own now too! [15:45] ogra_: wasn't planning on buildin gthem [15:46] Kinda pointless when the bootloader can't load from USB [15:46] oh, i thought you did [15:46] it might be able to btw [15:46] I was waiting until we got a fixed bootloader from Marvell [15:46] mahmoh: did that get magically fixed cause I couldn't get it to work [15:46] ah, indeed [15:46] if you tried a powered usb device then no [15:47] mahmoh: We tried a usb stick at the rally. [15:47] and a SD card too [15:48] sd didn't work?! [15:48] If it did, we wouldn't be having this discussion. [15:48] heh [15:49] Anyway [15:49] I think its time to close [15:49] well reboot now works and there's a bug for unmount hanging [15:49] One final annoucement [15:49] At any rate, we have 12 minutes left, and I have no idea where in the agenda we are anymore. [15:49] I would just like to say [15:49] So long, and thanks for all the fish [15:49] GrueMaster, which agenda ? [15:49] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [15:49] Meeting ended Thu Feb 23 15:49:39 2012 UTC. [15:49] Minutes (wiki): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-23-15.02.moin.txt [15:49] Minutes (html): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-23-15.02.html [15:49] NCommander, that was abrupt [15:49] yeah [15:50] not even a countdown [15:50] janimo`: figured for once to change it :-P [15:50] also to nitpick, thanks for all the fish is not an announcement :D [15:50] dramatic exit ... [15:51] mahmoh: The umount thing is almost certainly not arch-specific. [15:51] infinity: has anyone else seen it? [15:51] did you look on LP ? [15:52] yes (not well evidently) [15:52] mahmoh: I haven't seen the particular bug, but please sort out which script is hanging/pausing/whatever and file a bug. === yofel_ is now known as yofel [15:53] infinity: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/939240 [15:53] Error: launchpad bug 939240 not found [15:53] bug 939240 [15:54] mahmoh: No matter how many ways you type it, it still doesn't exist. ;) [15:54] (And this should go to another channel. I suggest #ubuntu-devel) [15:54] it's private for some reason, I should undo that [15:54] ack === jsalisbury_ is now known as jsalisbury === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-nom === jsalisbury_ is now known as jsalisbury === Ursinha-nom is now known as Ursinha === davidcalle_ is now known as davidcalle === bladernr_ is now known as bladernr_afk