[15:00]  * ogra_ twiddles thumbs ...
[15:01]  * davidm looks about
[15:02] <NCommander> #startmeeting
[15:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb 23 15:02:04 2012 UTC.  The chair is NCommander. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[15:02] <NCommander> Sorry, wasn't looking at the clock
[15:02] <ogra_> ah
[15:02] <mahmoh> hi
[15:02]  * davidm waves at NCommander 
[15:02] <NCommander> who's here
[15:02]  * med_ waves
[15:02]  * ogra_ sneezes
[15:02] <rbasak> o/
[15:02] <ahs3> \o
[15:02] <NCommander> So
[15:02] <ogra_> do we wnat need an agenda today ?
[15:03]  * GrueMaster meh
[15:03] <NCommander> Not really
[15:03] <NCommander> [topic] Important Annoucement
[15:04] <NCommander> As part of an effort to keep ARM development more inline with the rest of the ubuntu community, the ARM team is intergrating directly into the platform team
[15:04] <ppisati> :O
[15:04]  * ppisati wasn't aware
[15:04] <NCommander> ppisati: there was a reason I said it was the final meeting on the reminder
[15:04] <ogra_> i would actually like to propose to still have arm meetings to coordinate arm work ... not as frequent, not with burndown etc but occasionally (i.e. once a month or every two or on whatever schedule) to get people doing the arm work in ubuntu to talk ...
[15:05] <NCommander> [vote] Continue ARM meetings?
[15:05] <meetingology> Please vote on: Continue ARM meetings?
[15:05] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[15:05] <ppisati> +1
[15:05] <meetingology> +1 received from ppisati
[15:05] <GrueMaster> But I like the broken burndown chart.
[15:05] <med_> +1
[15:05] <meetingology> +1 received from med_
[15:05] <rbasak> +1
[15:05] <ogra_> +1 (since i proposed it)
[15:05] <meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
[15:05] <meetingology> +1 (since i proposed it) received from ogra_
[15:05] <GrueMaster> +1
[15:05] <meetingology> +1 received from GrueMaster
[15:05] <NCommander> ogra_: you broke the bot
[15:05] <NCommander> +1
[15:05] <meetingology> +1 received from NCommander
[15:05] <ogra_> NCommander, how could i ? :)
[15:06] <NCommander> 10:05:26 < meetingology> +1 (since i proposed it) received from ogra_
[15:06] <davidm> Who is going to host the meetings?
[15:06]  * NCommander looks at the person who proposed it
[15:06] <rbasak> Good question
[15:06]  * rbasak nominates davidm :-)
[15:06] <davidm> ogra_, it just wants +1 0 or -1 on a line nothing else
[15:06] <NCommander> #endvote
[15:06] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Continue ARM meetings?
[15:06] <meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[15:06] <meetingology> Motion carried
[15:06] <davidm> rbasak, not sure what I'll be doing going forward
[15:07] <davidm> So it needs to be someone else
[15:07] <ogra_> davidm, nah, we use the comment feature in every rmb meeting to comment on people we vorte for
[15:07]  * ogra_ will do it then, we can rotate it or so 
[15:07] <NCommander> So we'll continue the meetings in some form, not sure how often or when
[15:07] <NCommander> [action] ogra to determine new meeting schedule
[15:07] <meetingology> ACTION: ogra to determine new meeting schedule
[15:07] <ogra_> infinity, proposal was to still have arm coordination meetings at a looser schedule and with less agenda
[15:08] <infinity> I'm not convinced we need meetings for the sake of meetings.
[15:08]  * NCommander proposes we have a meeting to discuss meetings
[15:08] <NCommander> >:-)
[15:08] <ogra_> infinity, no,. for the sake of communitcation of people working on arm stuff
[15:08] <ogra_> it shouldnt be strict and optional anyway
[15:08] <rbasak> We have to be careful with a loose schedule though
[15:09] <rbasak> The risk is that it stops happening
[15:09] <infinity> ogra_: Well, the idea here is that people should instead be communicating about "kernel stuff" or "desktop stuff" (etc).  We don't have "amd64 meetings".
[15:09] <ogra_> just to give an opportunity to communicate on arm specific tasks
[15:09] <ogra_> hmm, true indeed
[15:09] <ogra_> nor do we have ppc ones
[15:09] <infinity> ie: If you have an arm kernel issue, being it up in the kernel-team meeting.
[15:09] <infinity> s/being/bring/
[15:10] <NCommander> Here's the official meeting calendar
[15:10] <NCommander> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/fridge/
[15:10] <NCommander> Server team is 16:00 UTC on Tuesdays
[15:10] <ogra_> infinity, though there was a vote before you joined, and that looked like there might still be demand
[15:10] <NCommander> ]Kernel is 17:00 UTC on Tuesday
[15:10] <ogra_> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[15:10] <rbasak> We don't need "amd64 meetings" because everyone is de-facto amd64. We need arm meetings because most people are still developing against non-arm, IMHO.
[15:10]  * ogra_ would like to hear from the people that +1'ed if they could get along with that 
[15:10] <infinity> I propose a discussion period before nostalgia-based voting biases kick in. ;)
[15:11] <ppisati> i definitely can, since i'll be there anyway :)
[15:11] <infinity> rbasak: Right, but that's what we're trying to change.
[15:11] <infinity> rbasak: And it won't change if we keep having ARM stuff in separate meetings.
[15:11] <ogra_> rbasak, infinity is right here
[15:11] <victorp> you could always have a rotating chair
[15:11] <ogra_> victorp, right, i would just have kicked it off
[15:12] <ogra_> with chair nominations at the end of every meeting
[15:12] <rbasak> infinity: we're not in a position to change it, IMHO, because it's based on what hardware engineers are using on their own machines. Until ARM/Intel reach a 50/50 split on that, ARM will be the minority and those working on it need to have a focus
[15:12] <infinity> rbasak: Yeah, that's kinda the attitude we're trying to kill here.  That's my point. :)
[15:12] <infinity> rbasak: People should care about it, even if it's not their laptop's arch.
[15:13] <victorp> rbasak, unless you count their phone
[15:13] <infinity> rbasak: And if it's not discussed in open channels and "normal" teams, that won't happen.
[15:13] <rbasak> I'm sure they do care about it
[15:13]  * ogra_ uses arm 24/7 on his lappie :)
[15:13] <victorp> I would suggest that keeping this meeting going forward for at least until the next cycle
[15:13]  * NCommander has an arm (and two legs)
[15:13] <victorp> and then re-review it at uds?
[15:13] <rbasak> I'm not saying that we shouldn't integrate with "normal" teams. I'm saying that ARM-specific issues that come up from there should be collaborated on in once place.
[15:13] <rbasak> *one place
[15:14] <rbasak> victorp: +1
[15:14] <infinity> rbasak: Perhaps.  Generally, kernel people don't attend desktop meetings for a reason, though. :)
[15:14] <infinity> (And most of us hate duplicated work/meetings)
[15:14] <victorp> infinity, doesnt mean we cant do both
[15:14] <infinity> But yeah, keeping the status quo for a little longer while we integrate won't kill us.
[15:14] <ogra_> infinity, prob here is that we dont have an arm person in every team atm
[15:14] <ogra_> else i would fully agree
[15:14] <victorp> for certification we have a meeting to cover cert and then we have a person attending the kernel meeting to raise issues there too
[15:15] <ogra_> but there is likely arm work that has to be done cross team atm
[15:15] <infinity> ogra_: It's not (ultimately) about having "arm people" on every team, but having every team actually work on ARM.
[15:15] <victorp> infinity, isnt a bit like QA
[15:15] <GrueMaster> infinity: No one is forcing you to attend either.
[15:15] <ogra_> how would they do that without HW or knowledge about the HW
[15:15] <victorp> everyone does its own qa - there is still a qa meeting to discuss common things?
[15:15] <ogra_> GrueMaster, ++
[15:15] <NCommander> We did have a PowerPC for a long time.
[15:15] <infinity> The HW is almost never necessary, except for kernel and installer hacking.
[15:15] <NCommander> er
[15:15] <NCommander> wow
[15:15] <NCommander> grammar fail
[15:16] <victorp> GrueMaster, that is the attitude  - lol
[15:16] <infinity> Anyhow.
[15:16] <infinity> I'll withdraw my objections for now.  But I'm working on integration here in the long run.
[15:16] <ogra_> as i said before, optional, less frequent
[15:16] <NCommander> PowerPC had a dedicated channel that people could go for porting help. We have #ubuntu-arm for much the same purpose
[15:16] <ogra_> once a month should suffice surely
[15:16] <victorp> infinity, can you take an action to setup a discussion at UDS around this?
[15:17] <victorp> since you do have valid points - if I take the action it will never happen
[15:17] <victorp> :(
[15:17] <infinity> victorp: Will do.
[15:17] <infinity> victorp: Rick's already tasked me informally with more or less the same thing. :P
[15:17] <NCommander> [action] infinity to discuss ARM meeting existance at UDS
[15:17] <meetingology> ACTION: infinity to discuss ARM meeting existance at UDS
[15:17] <victorp> great minds and all that
[15:18] <infinity> (Though less about meetings, and more about deeper integration)
[15:18] <NCommander> integration can largely be solved with large amounts of beer and duct tape
[15:18] <SeaJay> I'm for continuing the meetings but not so much for status quo but rather to help with the transition to the new org and build cross team cooperation.
[15:19] <infinity> To be fair, cross-team cooperation already exists, ARM's just not seen it as much, because we've been in our own weird bubble.
[15:19] <ogra_> ++
[15:19] <infinity> Scatter us to the winds, and we might see how the rest of the distro works. ;)
[15:19] <SeaJay> Yeh, cooperation wasn't the right word.
[15:19] <ogra_> they will forward their probs to linaro then :P
[15:19] <ogra_> instead of us
[15:19] <infinity> Anyhow.  Moving on.  I'll make sure this all gets solid discussion at UDS.
[15:20] <infinity> And I'll bring blunt objects.
[15:20] <infinity> Or wiffle bats.
[15:20] <ogra_> k, so should i still schedule it in a month from now ?
[15:20] <med_> yes
[15:20] <ogra_> ok
[15:20]  * rbasak votes two weeks
[15:21] <ogra_> (will only be 3 or 4 meetings until UDS anyway on that schedule)
[15:21] <infinity> ogra_: You could even register a foundations-uds-q-arm-integration (or whatever the right format is) blueprint, and assign it to me. ;)
[15:21] <SeaJay> Yeh, I'd like more frequently than monthly for now myself.
[15:21] <davidm> IS there any action items from last week that should be reviewed before just dropping the old agenda?
[15:21] <rbasak> The point being that we don't know how it'll go. If there's persistently little to discuss, we could make it less frequent then, but going in the other direction involves a long wait.
[15:21] <ogra_> infinity, feel free to create it :)
[15:22] <infinity> ogra_: I was hoping I could trick you into being my personal assistant.  I'll set it up.
[15:22] <ogra_> NCommander, any actions from last week ?
[15:22]  * NCommander checks
[15:22] <ogra_> infinity, lol, then you have to say so !
[15:22] <ogra_> just ask and you will be served :P
[15:23] <NCommander> [topic] rsalveti to follow with riku to see if chromium will get fixed
[15:23] <ogra_> (we have to talk about the amount of salary you have to transfer indeed )
[15:23] <infinity> micahg: What's the latest on chromium?
[15:23] <ogra_> it built !
[15:23] <NCommander> does it run?
[15:23]  * ogra_ got it with a dist-upgrade today
[15:23] <ogra_> didnt try
[15:23] <NCommander> ogra_: best try :-).
[15:23] <ogra_> just saw the package passing by
[15:23] <infinity> Wait, it built?
[15:23] <ogra_> not now
[15:23] <NCommander> I remember openoffice built, but didn't run
[15:24] <infinity> No, chromium's still broken on armhf.
[15:24] <ogra_> will do when i dont actually use this machine :)
[15:24] <ogra_> oh, crap i run el here
[15:24] <ogra_> but even that is a novum
[15:24] <infinity> Some multiarch annoyance.
[15:24] <ogra_> it didnt buold on any arm for years
[15:25] <infinity> I'll work with micahg to see if we can resolve that.
[15:25] <ogra_> i'll test after the meeting if it actually runs on my tegra
[15:25]  * ogra_ has all ram used up atm
[15:26] <infinity> janimo`: Oh hai.
[15:26] <ogra_> heh
[15:26] <janimo`> I forgot what the itme was
[15:26] <janimo`> and noone pinged me!
[15:27] <janimo`> and hi :)
[15:27] <ogra_> we just assumed your mic was broken
[15:27] <janimo`> funny guy
[15:27]  * GrueMaster hasn't seen an itme in a while.
[15:27] <ogra_> oh, wait that was the other meeting :P
[15:27] <infinity> NCommander: Was there anything else from last meeting?
[15:27] <janimo`> GrueMaster, did you say 'itme?
[15:27] <NCommander> [topic] rsalveti to follow with koen at ELC to see if we'll get armhf drivers for sgx (omap3)
[15:27] <janimo`> I would if I were near you
[15:28] <ppisati> NCommander: how about omap4?
[15:28] <ogra_> ppisati, in the works
[15:28] <rsalveti> he'll be publishing the drivers in the following weeks
[15:28] <ppisati> ok
[15:28] <rsalveti> hope still in time for the release
[15:28] <rsalveti> with a ffe
[15:28] <ogra_> waiting for ndecs team
[15:28] <infinity> rsalveti: Given that armel is unsupported, and armhf doesn't have the driver, the FFe will be a no-brainer.
[15:29] <ogra_> yeah
[15:29] <infinity> rsalveti: But have them talk to me about it when it's time.
[15:29] <rsalveti> FFe to include the driver for armhf
[15:29] <infinity> Yeah, like I said, no-brainer.
[15:29] <infinity> Hardware enablement FFes are more closely tied to kernel freeze, which is quite a way out.
[15:29] <infinity> At least, IMO.
[15:30] <rsalveti> that's fine then :_)
[15:30] <rsalveti> :-)
[15:30] <janimo`> is there an action item to ping nvidia about tegra-armhf or it happens whenever they get to it?
[15:30] <ogra_> good question
[15:30] <rsalveti> I talked with a few nvidia folks at elc
[15:30] <janimo`> so ac100 is not the only armel image
[15:30] <infinity> A few different people talked to nvidia engineers at Connect.
[15:30] <infinity> And ELC, apparently. :P
[15:30] <rsalveti> they said the have the armhf driver internally
[15:31] <infinity> And yeah, that.
[15:31] <rsalveti> guess we just need to ping the folks to make it available for us
[15:31] <infinity> The Engineers are building them, the release managers haven't let them be set free yet.
[15:31] <ogra_> then they should just open the gates
[15:31] <infinity> Red tape ahoy.
[15:31] <ogra_> heh
[15:32] <ogra_> well, with the current xorg ABI i get green bg on notification bubbles and the panel fonts look like rainbows
[15:32] <janimo`> ACTION : look for tegra-armhf drivers on thepiratebay.org
[15:32] <ogra_> camnt be worse i guess
[15:32] <ogra_> oh, and firefox CSS is acting up too
[15:33] <ogra_> o it would be good to have something new for release
[15:33] <janimo`> well the driver itself is still buggy but at least it should not hold up armhf images taking over
[15:33] <ogra_> yeah
[15:34] <rsalveti> and for imx53 we're still waiting feedback from freescale
[15:34] <ogra_> but with xorg updates it got a lot more buggy over the last weeks
[15:34] <rsalveti> seems we can have the drivers, but we can't distribute them
[15:34] <rsalveti> so, useless :-)
[15:34] <ogra_> so i dont even know if it makes sense to keep artmel around for ac100
[15:34] <ogra_> *armel
[15:34] <janimo`> rsalveti, was that not the case even before with mx53?
[15:34] <infinity> rsalveti: Yeah, I'd love to be able to, but such is life. :/
[15:34] <rsalveti> janimo`: yeah
[15:35] <ogra_> even with imx51 (babbage) we had that
[15:35] <GrueMaster> rsalveti: Anyone working on the usb issue with the imx53 Start-R rev?
[15:35] <rsalveti> but anmar is working hard at linaro to make freescale to release a distributable driver
[15:35] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: not atm, unfortunately
[15:35] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: have the bug?
[15:35] <infinity> rsalveti: I suppose if someone has some spare time they wanted to waste, they could design an installer package that required the user to first download the tarball from Freescale.
[15:35] <rsalveti> the team is focused on imx6
[15:36] <GrueMaster> I'll file a bug later today.  Everytime I got ready to file one before, I was told to wait as a new kernel was coming.
[15:36] <rsalveti> infinity: that would probably work, just need someone with some spare time to do the magic script
[15:36] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: please open it and let me know about the bug number
[15:36] <rsalveti> will forward it to the LT
[15:37] <infinity> rsalveti: Yeah, probably not worth the time, but if someone's feeling like a keener on private/community time.
[15:37] <rsalveti> yeah
[15:38] <ogra_> oh, btw is anyone sending out a more official announcement that the arm dem wont exist anymore ... or is NCommander's note that this was the final meeting enough ?
[15:38] <ogra_> s/dem/team/
[15:39]  * ogra_ glares at his fingers
[15:39] <NCommander> Sorry, power interruption
[15:39] <NCommander> cable model takes a good five minutes to powercycle
[15:39] <NCommander> *modem
[15:40] <NCommander> ogra_: I can drop a second email to ubuntu-armel announcing the former disillusion of the team.
[15:40] <infinity> ogra_: I think we'll want to wait a week or three until we have a better idea of the state of things.
[15:40] <NCommander> the LP group though shoul dstill be subscribed so ARM related bugs can be easily felt
[15:40] <NCommander> infinity: fair enough
[15:40] <ogra_> infinity, yeah, sounds sane
[15:41] <infinity> I'd like to send something more formal to ubuntu-announce in a while, but I want to make sure it's carefully worded to be positive, rather than panic-inducing.
[15:41] <GrueMaster> NCommander: Actually, tags are the preferred method for bugs.
[15:41] <ogra_> infinity, ++
[15:41] <ogra_> and also blessed by managers7teamleads
[15:41] <infinity> ogra_: Yeahp.
[15:42] <infinity> ogra_: I've been talking with Rick and Steve about what this all "means" for platform/Ubuntu, so I might take an action item here to draft up a formal announcement and get it reviewed and rubber-stamped.
[15:42] <ogra_> k
[15:42] <infinity> But, like I said, I think it should wait a couple weeks.
[15:42] <NCommander> anyway
[15:42] <NCommander> I have one final announcement
[15:42] <rsalveti> having a group can still be useful as we have people that only cares about arm atm
[15:42] <rsalveti> like the folks working with linaro
[15:43] <rsalveti> so easier to parse the bugs and such, but guess that a tag would also be useful
[15:43] <infinity> rsalveti: The LP group and ubuntu-arm channel are still valuable, IMO.
[15:43] <ogra_> rsalveti, the ubuntu-arm LP team will still exist
[15:43] <rsalveti> great then
[15:43] <rsalveti> :-)
[15:43] <ogra_> we already share it across different teams
[15:43] <ogra_> (which made our burndown chart look funny in the past)
[15:44]  * ogra_ has nothing anymore
[15:45] <NCommander> good news everyone
[15:45] <NCommander> armadaxp netboot images are up
[15:45] <infinity> NCommander: \o/
[15:45] <mahmoh> yay
[15:45] <rbasak> \o/
[15:45] <ogra_> great
[15:45] <cmagina> woot
[15:45] <ogra_> when will we see alternates ?
[15:45] <mahmoh> it even should reboot on its own now too!
[15:45] <NCommander> ogra_: wasn't planning on buildin gthem
[15:46] <NCommander> Kinda pointless when the bootloader can't load from USB
[15:46] <ogra_> oh, i thought you did
[15:46] <mahmoh> it might be able to btw
[15:46] <NCommander> I was waiting until we got a fixed bootloader from Marvell
[15:46] <NCommander> mahmoh: did that get magically fixed cause I couldn't get it to work
[15:46] <ogra_> ah, indeed
[15:46] <mahmoh> if you tried a powered usb device then no
[15:47] <GrueMaster> mahmoh: We tried a usb stick at the rally.
[15:47] <NCommander> and a SD card too
[15:48] <mahmoh> sd didn't work?!
[15:48] <GrueMaster> If it did, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
[15:48] <mahmoh> heh
[15:49] <NCommander> Anyway
[15:49] <NCommander> I think its time to close
[15:49] <mahmoh> well reboot now works and there's a bug for unmount hanging
[15:49] <NCommander> One final annoucement
[15:49] <GrueMaster> At any rate, we have 12 minutes left, and I have no idea where in the agenda we are anymore.
[15:49] <NCommander> I would just like to say
[15:49] <NCommander> So long, and thanks for all the fish
[15:49] <ogra_> GrueMaster, which agenda ?
[15:49] <NCommander> #endmeeting
[15:49] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Feb 23 15:49:39 2012 UTC.
[15:49] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-23-15.02.moin.txt
[15:49] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-02-23-15.02.html
[15:49] <janimo`> NCommander, that was abrupt
[15:49] <ogra_> yeah
[15:50] <ogra_> not even a countdown
[15:50] <NCommander> janimo`: figured for once to change it :-P
[15:50] <janimo`> also to nitpick, thanks for all the fish is not an announcement :D
[15:50] <mahmoh> dramatic exit ...
[15:51] <infinity> mahmoh: The umount thing is almost certainly not arch-specific.
[15:51] <mahmoh> infinity: has anyone else seen it?
[15:51] <ogra_> did you look on LP ?
[15:52] <mahmoh> yes (not well evidently)
[15:52] <infinity> mahmoh: I haven't seen the particular bug, but please sort out which script is hanging/pausing/whatever and file a bug.
[15:53] <mahmoh> infinity: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/939240
[15:53] <mahmoh> bug 939240
[15:54] <infinity> mahmoh: No matter how many ways you type it, it still doesn't exist. ;)
[15:54] <infinity> (And this should go to another channel.  I suggest #ubuntu-devel)
[15:54] <mahmoh> it's private for some reason, I should undo that
[15:54] <mahmoh> ack