lenScottL: In fact I would say that dvdstyler seems to do for video dvds what gcdmaster does for audio00:24
TheMusoabogani: Now that linux-lowlatency is in Ubuntu, 500MB will not need to be uploaded every time, as all the Ubuntu/low latency package changes go in teh .diff.gz. However, using symlinks in the way you have between config files prevents the proper packaging of the linux-lowlatency source into the .orig.tar file and the .diff.gz.01:16
TheMusoabogani: The changes I and TIm made do not increase the maintenance burdon, or at least I don't think so.01:16
TheMusoabogani: We don't need d-i modules, because even if UbuntuStudio was built as an install disk only, which it no longer is, the generic kernel is used for all install CD images.01:17
Len-1204ScottL and whoever else is interested. Re. panels.06:02
Len-1204I don't know how much time it is wroth spending working on panels.06:02
Len-1204A panel will not get imported to a user's session if they install a meta that calls for one, nor will one they have be altered.06:04
Len-1204this is good... but bad too. Once the user logs into their session the first time the panel is created and kept in their own directory. Even the *.desktop files are copied into their home directory. So any changes made to the master file that describes the panel will have no effect.06:06
Len-1204this means that we get one chance to get it right... and only if they are doing a fresh install. Unless we want to set up a script that goes from home directory to directory making changes.06:08
Len-1204Not a good idea.06:08
ailoUser settings should never be overwritten06:09
ailoSo, if they exist, they should be untouched06:09
Len-1204Just what I am saying.06:09
ailoSome things can get a little screwed up I think06:09
Len-1204We can make the main menu make sense, but doing anything special with the panel won't work well.06:10
ailoLike when you install xfce on top of a regular Ubuntu install06:10
Len-1204That too.06:10
ailoThe menu is probably the most important, right?06:10
Len-1204I think so.06:10
ailoWhen you install xfce on top of an existing Unity, you might get new default programs for file-managing, system monitor, and so on06:11
Len-1204Scott was talking about using the panel for putting workflow menus in.06:11
Len-1204I am thinking that will not work.06:11
Len-1204because the panel belongs to the user's settings06:12
ailoIt's not easy to create a custom workflow that is generic enough06:12
ailoI always say it's better to do that sort of thing in documentation06:12
ailoOr, at least begin there06:12
Len-1204What do you think of using dvdstyler in the video section?06:13
ailoIn Documentation you can decide on which default programs you would like to use for different things, but also mention alternatives. People are likely to use their own workflows, since they are almost always doing specialized things06:13
ailoI have no opinion on dvdstyler06:14
Len-1204Even two people doing the same job will do it two ways06:14
ailoNo opinions on video or graphics at all, in general. I don't know much about it06:14
ailoA custom workflow can only serve as an example at best06:15
Len-1204I was just thinking we are prety sparse on apps there and there is nothing for mastering dvds06:15
ailoSeems like you have a good idea about that06:16
Len-1204In that case we are better keeping the panel for app(let)s that get used for many work flows.06:16
ailoNot many I've seen who are interested in the video part, so it seems a little neglected06:16
Len-1204I thought so too.06:16
ailoGreat to have the -lowlatency in06:18
Len-1204A panel can start the browser, terminal, qjackctl... I would like to get rid of the desktop icons...06:18
ailoIs the live image working now?06:18
ailoI haven't tried since it was not working again for a while06:19
Len-1204It has been for a week at least. Still no rt in jack... but it is a good reflection of an install.06:19
Len-1204so if we get rt in install the live should get it too.06:20
Len-1204Same with the proper themes.06:20
Len-1204Mudita24 seems to have a problem with some of the alsa files...06:20
Len-1204This seems to be the latest version, because it worked fine when we tried the dep repo. before the first sync06:21
ailoIt comes directly from Debian Wheezy, just like all the other audio apps generally do, so it's about as new as they get06:22
Len-1204Still no *.desktop.06:23
ailowtf, my internal audio has disappeared06:23
ailoI'm actually on Wheezy right now06:24
ailopulseaudio interaction is a little weird06:24
ailoWas trying mudita24, but don't see any problems here06:24
Len-1204Ja, PA has to be played with to get it to work right with jackd06:24
ailoThere's no pa sink on Debian, so that seems to be purely an Ubuntu thing06:25
Len-1204When I start it here I get:06:25
Len-1204I can't start it here... this is off a week old iso.06:26
ailoBut, pulseaudio seems less stable than before. I get corrupted sound at times, and if I jerk around with jackd too much I might get some problem with d-bus that I don't know how to reinitialize, so I reboot06:26
Len-1204When I was playing with my ensonic card with the PA->jack bridging the sound was not usable.06:27
Len-1204it was fine on the same machine with the envy2406:27
Len-1204I have the ensoniq for midi.06:28
ailoI have a couple of cards with joystick ports that I can use to connect to a midi keyboard I have. Been a while, but I usually use one of them for that too06:28
Len-1204I hear that the jack dbus stuff and the PA interacting with that is being played with just now.06:29
ailoWill be nice if they get that to work seamlessly. 06:30
ailoI'm also excited about alsa adding firewire support06:30
ailoJust too bad so few usb devices work well on Linux06:30
ailoThat kind of puts Linux in a stoneage category, hardware-wise06:31
Len-1204I haven't tried any... but have been thinking about getting something for this netbook.06:31
ailoMost usb devices will only work in 1.1 mode06:32
Len-1204I didn't get this netbook for audio at all.06:32
ailoSo, perhaps 48kHz, 16 bits06:32
Len-1204That is what I heard06:32
ailoGeneric drivers06:32
Len-1204two channels06:32
ailoSo, most stereo cards will work, but only as usb 1.106:33
ailoI've heard stories about generic usb 2.0 compatible devices, but I have no idea about which ones06:33
Len-1204For me that would be fine... this would probably only handle that much data.06:33
ailoThere's one M-Audio 8 ch usb device with custom drivers06:34
ailoI think something like M-Audio Fasttrack Pro, stereo, with mic preamping, high Z input, and even phantom power is a great device06:35
Len-1204There seem to be some usb2 cards where the manufacture says they are usb2 standard, but we don't know if they do linux...06:35
ailoVersatile as hell, but alas, only usb 1.106:35
ailoIf it's usb 2 standard, it aught to work on Linux06:36
Len-1204I would much more like to hear " I tried this on my linux box and it works great!"06:36
ailoLike, M-Audio, they say it has usb 1.1 standard, without the custom drivers. Don't know if all manufacturers will mention this06:36
ailoI'm only talking about M-Audio, cause I know that brand fairly well of course06:38
Len-1204I have been happy with the delta 66 though, but its old now.06:38
ailoI have one too06:38
ailoI also have a LT101006:38
ailoThey don't seem to age at all06:38
ailoWas able to sync them too, so I had 12 ch I/O06:39
ailoFor a recording studio setup, they are still great. Would be my first choice, since they are so cheap06:39
ailoI also have a 8 ch firewire device. Had to get something more mobile06:40
ailoSadly, few notebooks have good firewire chips, if any06:40
ailoSo, it's still very limited06:40
Len-1204 I would buy mics first. I have a couple of nice dynamics, but would like a condenser too06:40
Len-1204I don't (right now) record drums, so four lines in is enough.06:41
ailoI got a couple of Røde K2's and some cheaper condensers as well06:41
ailoReally a whole setup for studio recording06:41
ailoNice mic preamps as well06:41
ailoAmps, drums, mics, guitar, bass, you name it06:42
ailoDon't have my own place for it right now though06:42
Len-1204I use the mic pres in my mackey (can't remember spelling)06:42
ailoIt's a good brand06:42
Len-1204I started as a drummer, but that is the only thing I don't have now. I have keys guitars bass... some cheap drum pads...06:43
Len-1204I play bass on the weekends so it is my main thing these days06:44
ailoI also started out as a drummer. Don't get to practice a lot06:45
ailoHoping to build a house sometime in the coming years so I can have a studio where I live06:46
Len-1204I would never buy one, but was given a classical guitar. I have been having a lot of fun with it. it has that sound I can't get with the other.06:46
ailoA lot of nice sonor from an acoustic guitar06:47
Len-1204I have the house and the space... not the time. My wife is doing school so I am the house mom.06:47
ailoI'm probably not getting married06:47
ailoBut, that sort of thing is hard to plan06:47
Len-1204It has its ups and downs06:48
Len-1204She plays and sings too. Has been doing volumtere06:48
Len-1204volunteer at the local hospital06:49
Len-1204Mostly for older people. Shes studying nursing right now.06:50
ailoI know a couple of nurse moms. Friends wives. Both studied to it as adults06:52
ailoIt's a decent job to have06:52
Len-1204I will probably retire in a few years anyway, so she can pay for me to stay home and make music ;-)06:53
ailoAre you that old?06:53
Len-1204I can RT at 55 with an ok pension.06:54
ailoSo it's a good time to be considering that anyway. Me, I'm going to change the history of music :P06:54
ailoI'm getting old enough to stop jerking around06:54
ailo34 years06:54
Len-1204Pretty hard to do... its so commercial any more... more vocal gymnastics than any feeling.06:55
Len-1204At least it is getting easier to sell your own stuff direct.06:56
ailoThere's a lot that can be done I think. Technology is not exactly used to the fullest right now06:56
ailoI've done all kinds of music, and studied a lot06:57
Len-1204I don't know that age matters so much... phil collins is still playing.06:57
ailoHe's good06:58
Len-1204There is a lot of older players around06:58
ailoI remember his old hits from the 80's06:58
ailoBruckner wrote his first symphony when he was 4006:58
Len-1204Kim Mitchel is still about too06:58
ailoWhile some die before their 40's06:58
ailoOr, around 40, in Bruckners case06:59
Len-1204or whats her name this weekend06:59
Len-1204 or was it last06:59
ailoI forge too. I don't remember names, but I know who you mean07:00
Len-1204Lots of old guys playing their hits from glory days too07:01
ailoI can't believe people like Chuck Berry are still playing07:01
Len-1204D.P. is still doing smoke on the water07:01
ailoThose guys are like convicts, who don't know what else to do in life07:01
ailoThey have their routines07:02
ailoI've been listening to Judas Priest lately, a song called Judas Rising. Pretty new, from around 2005. Not exactly a new band either.07:02
Len-1204If it doesn't make radio play it's probably good.07:04
ailoMy Uncle sent me a CD. I would have never listened to it otherwise. Don't know why that song caught my attention so much. Something haunting about it almost07:05
Len-1204But yeah I remember them from late 70s early 80s?07:05
ailoI think they begun in the early part of the 70's but didn't really grow big until bands like Iron Maiden became huge07:06
ailoJudas Priest was actually one of the few original Metal bands, when Black Sabbath was more of a groovy, doomy rock band07:06
Len-1204I'll have to go have a listen.07:07
Len-1204Anyway, off to bed I guess.07:11
ailoGood night07:23
Len-1204For those who care... here is a modified panel: http://www.ovenwerks.net/UStudiodocs/panel.html07:48
Len-1204and some thoughts on why we should not have a second panel.07:49
lenscott-work: Just looked at workflows for video. I see we have qdvdauthor to be used for setting up video dvds. qdvdauthor has much the same functionality as dvdstyler (from a quick look at the web page)14:54
lenBut, dvdstyler is in the repos, qdvdauthor does not seem to be there.14:55
lenAlso, please read my notes on panels. There are problems with using xfce panels.14:56
lenI'm off to work now.14:56
scott-workhi len , sorry i missed you15:12
scott-workfor the record, i have played with dvdstyler and i thought it was one of the best, easiest to use, and most functional dvd authoring software available to ubuntu15:13
scott-workthis was during last cycle or so, perhaps something is better now, but going with dvdstyler would be a good choice15:14
scott-workthis may come from left field...15:14
scott-workdo we want to support making physical dvd's?15:14
scott-worki think most progressive people are looking at video on the web mainly15:15
scott-worki'm not necessarily oppossed to physical dvd's or supprting them, i just want to ask the question15:15
scott-workit's great to have that functionality, but do our users want it or are they asking for it?15:15
scott-worklen: i shoudl also point out that i appreciate your efforts on the menu and panel15:16
scott-worki hope to have some other things resolved here shortly (work allowing), and then i will be moving onto the menu and panels along with the icons for the menu (not the ones _in_ the menu per se, as you noted this is handled by the *.desktop files)15:17
holsteinyeah, len is knocking it out !15:25
holsteini think as far as "are our users wanting to make DVD's?"... i see that point15:26
holsteini dont think we have enough video users to warrant a work-flow for video though personally15:26
holsteinthat being said, i think making DVD's is one of those simple things that we could support our of the box15:27
holsteinanything we include be default can be used live15:27
holsteina user could DL the iso, and create a DVD15:27
holsteinthats pretty cool...15:27
ailoBeta 1 is almost here then..17:19
scott-workailo: yeah, and i wanted to resolve a few things before then :(18:02
scott-workwork is pretty crazy right now18:02
scott-workbut i think i'm leaving on time tonight so hopefully i get some of them done tonight18:02
micahgscott-work: your meta package got removed along with xubuntu and anything else using lightdm-gtk-greeter18:14
scott-workmost unfortunate :(  but, of course, not unexpected18:15
micahgI"m working on the greeter now, should have something ready in an hour or 218:22
scott-workmicahg: will it need to go through REVU?18:27
micahgyeah, actually, I'd rather just upload new meta packages now and fix the greeter later tonight18:38
ailoThis tells about a patch to make M-Audio Fast Track Pro get 24 bit operation http://joegiampaoli.blogspot.com/2011/06/m-audio-fast-track-pro-for-debian-linux.html18:41
ailoA kernel patch18:41
ailoIt's an usb audio patch18:41
ailoI've been reading this forum also. Some talk about getting both Fasttrack Pro and Fasttrack Ultra to work here18:49
ailoUnfortunately, I don't have access to either device, so I can't do any testing. I do have access to an older version of fasttrack, but that might not help18:49
ailoI should go past a music shop and do some quick testing with a notebook. Should tell us something18:54
=== shnatsel is now known as shnatsel|gprs
micahgScottL: I'm going to reupload the meta for you now19:37
micahgscott-work: ^^19:37
scott-workmicahg: thank you20:30
micahgscott-work: I can't do this now, I have to upload the lightdm theme ans default-settings package, can it wait a few more hours?20:37
scott-workmicahg: i don't think i have much choice, do i? :P21:21
scott-workmicahg: but seriously, i think that is fine, i don't think meta updates are going to break anything at this point (except for something that is missing like lightdm for the iso build)21:22
micahgheh, not unless you have another victi^Wvolunteer :), I'll be uploading ubuntustudio-default-settings, ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme, and the meta, so whatever changes are needed, please make if you can, otherwise, I'll try to clean it up myself before upload21:22
micahgI won't be touching it for another 7 or 8 hours probably21:23
scott-workmicahg: that's cool (i.e. 7 or 8 hours)21:34
scott-workmicahg: i'll get the Depends: xubuntu-icon-theme done before them21:35
scott-workmicahg: i'll try to get the /pixmaps/icons also added to the -menu file21:35
scott-worki don't think there is anything else that i needed to do right now to fix the lightdm/theme issues right now21:36
lenWow, the iso is 15% different from yesterday.22:21
scott-workit's proably all the lightdm being removed :P23:17
lenWe are 100 to 200 meg lighter alright23:22

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