[00:24] <len> ScottL: In fact I would say that dvdstyler seems to do for video dvds what gcdmaster does for audio
[01:16] <TheMuso> abogani: Now that linux-lowlatency is in Ubuntu, 500MB will not need to be uploaded every time, as all the Ubuntu/low latency package changes go in teh .diff.gz. However, using symlinks in the way you have between config files prevents the proper packaging of the linux-lowlatency source into the .orig.tar file and the .diff.gz.
[01:16] <TheMuso> abogani: The changes I and TIm made do not increase the maintenance burdon, or at least I don't think so.
[01:17] <TheMuso> abogani: We don't need d-i modules, because even if UbuntuStudio was built as an install disk only, which it no longer is, the generic kernel is used for all install CD images.
[06:02] <Len-1204> ScottL and whoever else is interested. Re. panels.
[06:02] <Len-1204> I don't know how much time it is wroth spending working on panels.
[06:04] <Len-1204> A panel will not get imported to a user's session if they install a meta that calls for one, nor will one they have be altered.
[06:06] <Len-1204> this is good... but bad too. Once the user logs into their session the first time the panel is created and kept in their own directory. Even the *.desktop files are copied into their home directory. So any changes made to the master file that describes the panel will have no effect.
[06:08] <Len-1204> this means that we get one chance to get it right... and only if they are doing a fresh install. Unless we want to set up a script that goes from home directory to directory making changes.
[06:08] <Len-1204> Not a good idea.
[06:09] <ailo> User settings should never be overwritten
[06:09] <ailo> So, if they exist, they should be untouched
[06:09] <Len-1204> Just what I am saying.
[06:09] <ailo> Some things can get a little screwed up I think
[06:10] <Len-1204> We can make the main menu make sense, but doing anything special with the panel won't work well.
[06:10] <ailo> Like when you install xfce on top of a regular Ubuntu install
[06:10] <Len-1204> That too.
[06:10] <ailo> The menu is probably the most important, right?
[06:10] <Len-1204> I think so.
[06:11] <ailo> When you install xfce on top of an existing Unity, you might get new default programs for file-managing, system monitor, and so on
[06:11] <Len-1204> Scott was talking about using the panel for putting workflow menus in.
[06:11] <Len-1204> I am thinking that will not work.
[06:12] <Len-1204> because the panel belongs to the user's settings
[06:12] <ailo> It's not easy to create a custom workflow that is generic enough
[06:12] <ailo> I always say it's better to do that sort of thing in documentation
[06:12] <ailo> Or, at least begin there
[06:13] <Len-1204> What do you think of using dvdstyler in the video section?
[06:13] <ailo> In Documentation you can decide on which default programs you would like to use for different things, but also mention alternatives. People are likely to use their own workflows, since they are almost always doing specialized things
[06:14] <ailo> I have no opinion on dvdstyler
[06:14] <Len-1204> Even two people doing the same job will do it two ways
[06:14] <ailo> No opinions on video or graphics at all, in general. I don't know much about it
[06:15] <ailo> A custom workflow can only serve as an example at best
[06:15] <Len-1204> I was just thinking we are prety sparse on apps there and there is nothing for mastering dvds
[06:16] <ailo> Seems like you have a good idea about that
[06:16] <Len-1204> In that case we are better keeping the panel for app(let)s that get used for many work flows.
[06:16] <ailo> Not many I've seen who are interested in the video part, so it seems a little neglected
[06:16] <Len-1204> I thought so too.
[06:18] <ailo> Great to have the -lowlatency in
[06:18] <Len-1204> A panel can start the browser, terminal, qjackctl... I would like to get rid of the desktop icons...
[06:18] <Len-1204> Yes!
[06:18] <ailo> Is the live image working now?
[06:19] <ailo> I haven't tried since it was not working again for a while
[06:19] <Len-1204> It has been for a week at least. Still no rt in jack... but it is a good reflection of an install.
[06:20] <Len-1204> so if we get rt in install the live should get it too.
[06:20] <Len-1204> Same with the proper themes.
[06:20] <Len-1204> Mudita24 seems to have a problem with some of the alsa files...
[06:21] <Len-1204> This seems to be the latest version, because it worked fine when we tried the dep repo. before the first sync
[06:22] <ailo> It comes directly from Debian Wheezy, just like all the other audio apps generally do, so it's about as new as they get
[06:23] <Len-1204> Still no *.desktop.
[06:23] <ailo> wtf, my internal audio has disappeared
[06:24] <ailo> I'm actually on Wheezy right now
[06:24] <ailo> pulseaudio interaction is a little weird
[06:24] <ailo> Was trying mudita24, but don't see any problems here
[06:24] <Len-1204> Ja, PA has to be played with to get it to work right with jackd
[06:25] <ailo> There's no pa sink on Debian, so that seems to be purely an Ubuntu thing
[06:25] <Len-1204> When I start it here I get:
[06:26] <Len-1204> I can't start it here... this is off a week old iso.
[06:26] <ailo> But, pulseaudio seems less stable than before. I get corrupted sound at times, and if I jerk around with jackd too much I might get some problem with d-bus that I don't know how to reinitialize, so I reboot
[06:27] <Len-1204> When I was playing with my ensonic card with the PA->jack bridging the sound was not usable.
[06:27] <Len-1204> it was fine on the same machine with the envy24
[06:28] <Len-1204> I have the ensoniq for midi.
[06:28] <ailo> I have a couple of cards with joystick ports that I can use to connect to a midi keyboard I have. Been a while, but I usually use one of them for that too
[06:29] <Len-1204> I hear that the jack dbus stuff and the PA interacting with that is being played with just now.
[06:30] <ailo> Will be nice if they get that to work seamlessly. 
[06:30] <ailo> I'm also excited about alsa adding firewire support
[06:30] <ailo> Just too bad so few usb devices work well on Linux
[06:31] <ailo> That kind of puts Linux in a stoneage category, hardware-wise
[06:31] <Len-1204> I haven't tried any... but have been thinking about getting something for this netbook.
[06:32] <ailo> Most usb devices will only work in 1.1 mode
[06:32] <Len-1204> I didn't get this netbook for audio at all.
[06:32] <ailo> So, perhaps 48kHz, 16 bits
[06:32] <Len-1204> That is what I heard
[06:32] <ailo> Generic drivers
[06:32] <Len-1204> two channels
[06:32] <ailo> Yeah
[06:33] <ailo> So, most stereo cards will work, but only as usb 1.1
[06:33] <ailo> I've heard stories about generic usb 2.0 compatible devices, but I have no idea about which ones
[06:33] <Len-1204> For me that would be fine... this would probably only handle that much data.
[06:34] <ailo> There's one M-Audio 8 ch usb device with custom drivers
[06:35] <ailo> I think something like M-Audio Fasttrack Pro, stereo, with mic preamping, high Z input, and even phantom power is a great device
[06:35] <Len-1204> There seem to be some usb2 cards where the manufacture says they are usb2 standard, but we don't know if they do linux...
[06:35] <ailo> Versatile as hell, but alas, only usb 1.1
[06:36] <ailo> If it's usb 2 standard, it aught to work on Linux
[06:36] <Len-1204> I would much more like to hear " I tried this on my linux box and it works great!"
[06:36] <ailo> Like, M-Audio, they say it has usb 1.1 standard, without the custom drivers. Don't know if all manufacturers will mention this
[06:38] <ailo> I'm only talking about M-Audio, cause I know that brand fairly well of course
[06:38] <Len-1204> I have been happy with the delta 66 though, but its old now.
[06:38] <ailo> I have one too
[06:38] <ailo> I also have a LT1010
[06:38] <ailo> They don't seem to age at all
[06:39] <ailo> Was able to sync them too, so I had 12 ch I/O
[06:39] <ailo> For a recording studio setup, they are still great. Would be my first choice, since they are so cheap
[06:40] <ailo> I also have a 8 ch firewire device. Had to get something more mobile
[06:40] <ailo> Sadly, few notebooks have good firewire chips, if any
[06:40] <ailo> So, it's still very limited
[06:40] <Len-1204>  I would buy mics first. I have a couple of nice dynamics, but would like a condenser too
[06:41] <Len-1204> I don't (right now) record drums, so four lines in is enough.
[06:41] <ailo> I got a couple of Røde K2's and some cheaper condensers as well
[06:41] <ailo> Really a whole setup for studio recording
[06:41] <ailo> Nice mic preamps as well
[06:42] <ailo> Amps, drums, mics, guitar, bass, you name it
[06:42] <ailo> Don't have my own place for it right now though
[06:42] <Len-1204> I use the mic pres in my mackey (can't remember spelling)
[06:42] <ailo> It's a good brand
[06:43] <Len-1204> I started as a drummer, but that is the only thing I don't have now. I have keys guitars bass... some cheap drum pads...
[06:44] <Len-1204> I play bass on the weekends so it is my main thing these days
[06:45] <ailo> I also started out as a drummer. Don't get to practice a lot
[06:46] <ailo> Hoping to build a house sometime in the coming years so I can have a studio where I live
[06:46] <Len-1204> I would never buy one, but was given a classical guitar. I have been having a lot of fun with it. it has that sound I can't get with the other.
[06:47] <ailo> A lot of nice sonor from an acoustic guitar
[06:47] <Len-1204> I have the house and the space... not the time. My wife is doing school so I am the house mom.
[06:47] <ailo> I'm probably not getting married
[06:47] <ailo> But, that sort of thing is hard to plan
[06:48] <Len-1204> It has its ups and downs
[06:48] <Len-1204> She plays and sings too. Has been doing volumtere
[06:49] <Len-1204> volunteer at the local hospital
[06:50] <Len-1204> Mostly for older people. Shes studying nursing right now.
[06:52] <ailo> I know a couple of nurse moms. Friends wives. Both studied to it as adults
[06:52] <ailo> It's a decent job to have
[06:53] <Len-1204> I will probably retire in a few years anyway, so she can pay for me to stay home and make music ;-)
[06:53] <ailo> Are you that old?
[06:53] <Len-1204> 51
[06:54] <Len-1204> I can RT at 55 with an ok pension.
[06:54] <ailo> So it's a good time to be considering that anyway. Me, I'm going to change the history of music :P
[06:54] <ailo> I'm getting old enough to stop jerking around
[06:54] <ailo> 34 years
[06:55] <Len-1204> Pretty hard to do... its so commercial any more... more vocal gymnastics than any feeling.
[06:56] <Len-1204> At least it is getting easier to sell your own stuff direct.
[06:56] <ailo> There's a lot that can be done I think. Technology is not exactly used to the fullest right now
[06:57] <ailo> I've done all kinds of music, and studied a lot
[06:57] <Len-1204> I don't know that age matters so much... phil collins is still playing.
[06:58] <ailo> He's good
[06:58] <Len-1204> There is a lot of older players around
[06:58] <ailo> I remember his old hits from the 80's
[06:58] <ailo> Bruckner wrote his first symphony when he was 40
[06:58] <Len-1204> Kim Mitchel is still about too
[06:58] <ailo> While some die before their 40's
[06:59] <ailo> Or, around 40, in Bruckners case
[06:59] <Len-1204> or whats her name this weekend
[06:59] <Len-1204>  or was it last
[07:00] <ailo> I forge too. I don't remember names, but I know who you mean
[07:01] <Len-1204> Lots of old guys playing their hits from glory days too
[07:01] <ailo> I can't believe people like Chuck Berry are still playing
[07:01] <Len-1204> D.P. is still doing smoke on the water
[07:01] <ailo> Those guys are like convicts, who don't know what else to do in life
[07:02] <ailo> They have their routines
[07:02] <ailo> I've been listening to Judas Priest lately, a song called Judas Rising. Pretty new, from around 2005. Not exactly a new band either.
[07:04] <Len-1204> If it doesn't make radio play it's probably good.
[07:05] <ailo> My Uncle sent me a CD. I would have never listened to it otherwise. Don't know why that song caught my attention so much. Something haunting about it almost
[07:05] <Len-1204> But yeah I remember them from late 70s early 80s?
[07:06] <ailo> I think they begun in the early part of the 70's but didn't really grow big until bands like Iron Maiden became huge
[07:06] <ailo> Judas Priest was actually one of the few original Metal bands, when Black Sabbath was more of a groovy, doomy rock band
[07:07] <Len-1204> I'll have to go have a listen.
[07:11] <Len-1204> Anyway, off to bed I guess.
[07:23] <ailo> Good night
[07:48] <Len-1204> For those who care... here is a modified panel: http://www.ovenwerks.net/UStudiodocs/panel.html
[07:49] <Len-1204> and some thoughts on why we should not have a second panel.
[14:54] <len> scott-work: Just looked at workflows for video. I see we have qdvdauthor to be used for setting up video dvds. qdvdauthor has much the same functionality as dvdstyler (from a quick look at the web page)
[14:55] <len> But, dvdstyler is in the repos, qdvdauthor does not seem to be there.
[14:56] <len> Also, please read my notes on panels. There are problems with using xfce panels.
[14:56] <len> I'm off to work now.
[15:12] <scott-work> hi len , sorry i missed you
[15:13] <scott-work> for the record, i have played with dvdstyler and i thought it was one of the best, easiest to use, and most functional dvd authoring software available to ubuntu
[15:14] <scott-work> this was during last cycle or so, perhaps something is better now, but going with dvdstyler would be a good choice
[15:14] <scott-work> this may come from left field...
[15:14] <scott-work> do we want to support making physical dvd's?
[15:15] <scott-work> i think most progressive people are looking at video on the web mainly
[15:15] <scott-work> i'm not necessarily oppossed to physical dvd's or supprting them, i just want to ask the question
[15:15] <scott-work> it's great to have that functionality, but do our users want it or are they asking for it?
[15:16] <scott-work> len: i shoudl also point out that i appreciate your efforts on the menu and panel
[15:17] <scott-work> i hope to have some other things resolved here shortly (work allowing), and then i will be moving onto the menu and panels along with the icons for the menu (not the ones _in_ the menu per se, as you noted this is handled by the *.desktop files)
[15:25] <holstein> yeah, len is knocking it out !
[15:26] <holstein> i think as far as "are our users wanting to make DVD's?"... i see that point
[15:26] <holstein> i dont think we have enough video users to warrant a work-flow for video though personally
[15:27] <holstein> that being said, i think making DVD's is one of those simple things that we could support our of the box
[15:27] <holstein> anything we include be default can be used live
[15:27] <holstein> a user could DL the iso, and create a DVD
[15:27] <holstein> thats pretty cool...
[17:19] <ailo> Beta 1 is almost here then..
[18:02] <scott-work> ailo: yeah, and i wanted to resolve a few things before then :(
[18:02] <scott-work> work is pretty crazy right now
[18:02] <scott-work> but i think i'm leaving on time tonight so hopefully i get some of them done tonight
[18:14] <micahg> scott-work: your meta package got removed along with xubuntu and anything else using lightdm-gtk-greeter
[18:15] <scott-work> most unfortunate :(  but, of course, not unexpected
[18:22] <micahg> I"m working on the greeter now, should have something ready in an hour or 2
[18:27] <scott-work> micahg: will it need to go through REVU?
[18:38] <micahg> yeah, actually, I'd rather just upload new meta packages now and fix the greeter later tonight
[18:41] <ailo> This tells about a patch to make M-Audio Fast Track Pro get 24 bit operation http://joegiampaoli.blogspot.com/2011/06/m-audio-fast-track-pro-for-debian-linux.html
[18:41] <ailo> A kernel patch
[18:41] <ailo> It's an usb audio patch
[18:49] <ailo> I've been reading this forum also. Some talk about getting both Fasttrack Pro and Fasttrack Ultra to work here
[18:49] <ailo> Unfortunately, I don't have access to either device, so I can't do any testing. I do have access to an older version of fasttrack, but that might not help
[18:54] <ailo> I should go past a music shop and do some quick testing with a notebook. Should tell us something
[19:37] <micahg> ScottL: I'm going to reupload the meta for you now
[19:37] <micahg> scott-work: ^^
[20:30] <scott-work> micahg: thank you
[20:37] <micahg> scott-work: I can't do this now, I have to upload the lightdm theme ans default-settings package, can it wait a few more hours?
[21:21] <scott-work> micahg: i don't think i have much choice, do i? :P
[21:22] <scott-work> micahg: but seriously, i think that is fine, i don't think meta updates are going to break anything at this point (except for something that is missing like lightdm for the iso build)
[21:22] <micahg> heh, not unless you have another victi^Wvolunteer :), I'll be uploading ubuntustudio-default-settings, ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme, and the meta, so whatever changes are needed, please make if you can, otherwise, I'll try to clean it up myself before upload
[21:23] <micahg> I won't be touching it for another 7 or 8 hours probably
[21:34] <scott-work> micahg: that's cool (i.e. 7 or 8 hours)
[21:35] <scott-work> micahg: i'll get the Depends: xubuntu-icon-theme done before them
[21:35] <scott-work> micahg: i'll try to get the /pixmaps/icons also added to the -menu file
[21:36] <scott-work> i don't think there is anything else that i needed to do right now to fix the lightdm/theme issues right now
[22:21] <len> Wow, the iso is 15% different from yesterday.
[23:17] <scott-work> it's proably all the lightdm being removed :P
[23:22] <len> We are 100 to 200 meg lighter alright