* desrt is presently feeling borderline overdosed on coffee00:00
RAOFSo, I know what the problem is.00:02
RAOFThe problem is, I\ don't see how 0ubuntu3 worked :)00:03
Sweetsharkanyone here able to tickle https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:3.5.0-1ubuntu3 builds out of depwait?00:29
Sweetsharkhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lucene2/+bug/938708 <- the lucene dep should be there now.00:29
ubot2`Launchpad bug 938708 in lucene2 "[MIR] lucene2" [Undecided,Fix committed]00:29
chrisccoulsong'ah, what has happened to my keyboard shortcuts??? :(00:32
chrisccoulsonctrl+alt+everything seems to be broken00:32
chrisccoulsonoh, switching workspaces has been hardcoded to a new combination00:34
brycehchrisccoulson, ??00:34
chrisccoulsonbryceh, switching workspaces has been moved from ctrl+alt to super+shift00:35
chrisccoulsoni could hit ctrl_alt nicely with my index finger + little finger00:35
chrisccoulsonbut the new combination is too close together for me to be able to do that comfortably00:35
chrisccoulsonthat's going to take some serious readjustment :(00:35
brycehbet that's not going to be a popular change00:36
chrisccoulsonprobably not00:36
brycehchrisccoulson, you can still remap the key combo in settings though, right?00:37
Sweetsharkyikes, my fluxbox trained brain will never adopt.00:37
chrisccoulsonbryceh, not according to the unity changelog entry00:37
chrisccoulson"hardcode the new default value for switching between workspaces"00:38
RAOFOooh, ow.00:38
dupondjehardcoded things are always bad :)00:39
chrisccoulsonbryceh, oh, you can still change it00:39
chrisccoulsonand i've just remapped it back again00:39
chrisccoulsonphew :)00:39
smspillazchrisccoulson: its not hardcoded00:49
chrisccoulsonsmspillaz, it seems that the changelog entry is confusing ;)00:49
chrisccoulsonany idea why the bindings were changed?00:49
smspillazchrisccoulson: the default value was just changed and we shipped a settings upgrade file to change the existing setting to super-shift00:49
smspillazchrisccoulson: design00:50
Sweetsharkchrisccoulson: isnt it 1am at your place? what are you doing here still? ;)00:50
chrisccoulsonit's got to be the worst possible combination of modifiers. diagonally positioned and closer together :/00:50
chrisccoulsonSweetshark, yeah, it's nearly 1am here00:50
thumperah... whut?00:50
* thumper uses ctrl+alt lots for workspace shifting00:51
lifelessnot anymore00:51
chrisccoulsonthumper, ditto. but it's now super+shift00:51
thumperwho thought that was a good idea?00:51
chrisccoulsoni've no idea :/00:51
thumperwhat I heard was it would be additional00:51
thumperand advertised00:52
thumperbut wouldn't stop the old one working00:52
RAOFDear coffee.  Why aren't you here?00:58
chrisccoulsonRAOF, oh, please don't talk about coffee. i really want some now, but putting a brew on at 1am probably wouldn't be the greatest idea for me ;)01:00
Sarvattchrisccoulson: 8pm here but my thoughts exactly01:02
chrisccoulsonwhat i need is beer to counter the effects of the caffeine01:03
chrisccoulsoni still have a bit of scotch left01:03
chrisccoulsonthat might work :)01:03
Sweetsharkchrisccoulson: what kind of scotch?01:05
RAOFAaah, espresso machine.  You are the finest of presents.01:05
chrisccoulsonSweetshark, https://shop.glenfiddich.com/products/Glenfiddich-Rich-Oak.html01:07
Sweetsharkchrisccoulson: nice one!01:10
* Sweetshark pours in a http://www.laphroaig.com/01:10
strycoreI see I've come to the right place01:25
strycoreI was searching some info about the change of keyboard shortcut for desktop switching01:25
strycoreIs there a thread in a mailing list or a bug in Launchpad explaing why it was changed ? (I couldn't find any)01:26
brycehstrycore, we're as mystified as you, but seems to be a Design team decision01:34
strycoreweird... of course it can easily be changed back to the normal shortcuts, but if someone made that change, they must have had a reason to think it was better01:39
jbichaI'm guessing it's to use the Super key as the basis for more Unity shortcuts01:40
jbichayou could open a bug and hopefully get an explanation when Design closes the bug ;)01:40
strycorewell, there is an actual bug to report, now I get a Keyboard Shortcuts help screen while I'm switching desktops, mixing the <super> long press with desktop switching doesn't work01:44
strycorebug reported, (#940007). I guess I'll go script the keybindings back to their old value, changing them back on every machine with ccsm would be so tedious.02:07
brycehstrycore, hey I'd be interested in that script02:13
strycorebryceh, there you go : https://github.com/strycore/scripts/blob/master/fix-workspace-switcher02:31
brycehstrycore, thanks!02:32
desrtRAOF: how goes?02:35
RAOFdesrt: Sidetracked by mesa.02:35
desrtmesa is tricky like that02:36
RAOFdesrt: I'm pretty sure I can ~1 line patch it to make it work.02:36
desrtRAOF: i've also been seeing weird issues lately with modifiers (particular alt) behaving badly02:36
RAOFUnder shell?02:36
desrti've seen both:02:36
desrt - gnome-terminal stops processing alt (so alt+2, alt+3, etc in irssi stops working)02:37
desrt - (and now) shell stops processing alt+ctrl+(up down) so that pressing these gives 'A' or 'B' in irssi02:37
desrt(ie: the vt100 escapes for the direction)02:37
desrtnot sure if it's a server problem or something else02:38
desrtand it's been happening randomly for a while02:38
desrthum.  odd.  restarting X entirely just failed to fix it.02:39
* desrt tries a reboot...02:39
desrthuh.  that doesn't work either.  fascinating.02:41
strycoredesrt, the keyboard shortcut have changed02:44
desrtso they have.02:44
desrtthat's pretty random.02:45
strycoreyes totally02:45
desrtwell, the other half of the bug was still happening :)02:45
desrt(although not now)02:45
RAOFdesrt: Again, this is in shell?02:48
desrtand i'm no longer 100% sure that it doesn't go away by restarting shell02:49
desrt(for the other issue)02:49
desrtso it could very easily be a shell bug02:49
RAOFYeah.  It's entirely within shell's capabilities to make that break.02:49
jbichadesrt: which shell version?02:49
desrtjbicha: whatever is in precise right now02:50
desrtRAOF: i don't really understand how02:50
desrtRAOF: although i can imagine it's possible...02:50
desrtif i press alt+2 then i can understand the shell could possibly intercept that02:50
desrtbut i'd assume it's an all-or-none sort of deal02:50
desrtand to have it modify it to be just-plain-old-2 and deliver that to the app seems odd02:51
desrtin any case, i haven't seen it in a week or so so it might be fixed02:51
desrti'll do some deeper digging if i see it pop up again02:51
RAOFdesrt: It could grab on alt, get the event, decide that it didn't really need it and put the event back in the queue, but accidentally drop the modifier.03:03
RAOFI don't know if it actually *does* that, but it could.03:04
micahgRAOF: can you look at or get someone to look at Bug #77028303:06
ubot2`Launchpad bug 770283 in fglrx-installer "[fglrx]title bar does not update on non-maximized windows" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/77028303:06
micahgrequest from #ubuntu+103:06
RAOFOh, man.03:10
RAOFThat's terrible.03:10
desrtRAOF: afaik, passive grabs are an accept-or-reject affair03:12
desrtthere is no 'putting back in the queue'03:12
RAOFThis is possible; I've not got my head around the full panoply of passive/active grab behaviours, and how they're usedb.03:13
TheMusogrrr stupid shortcut changes. :S03:21
desrtTheMuso: srsly.03:21
lifelessRAOF: oh great, so you can fix my touchpad getting stuck with mouse1 down until I shif the app to a different workspace and dance in a circle?03:21
desrtdoes anyone know who/why?03:21
RAOFlifeless: That's probably the drag-lock behaviour :).  Shout at cnd; he's after feedback on it :)03:22
strycorewait , that a "behavior" and not a bug ?03:23
TheMusoSooooo. Every time I use *cough* super + shift plus arrows to change workspace, the dash comes up... :S03:23
RAOFmicahg: That looks like Sam's already looked at it and come to the same conclusion that I did.  I guess that needs to be forwarded to fglrx.03:23
strycorei thought my touchpad was going crazy or something03:24
lifelessstrycore: ++03:24
lifelessAFAICT something is batshit insane03:24
lifelesscan't break out of it in any reasonable fashion03:24
RAOFlifeless: You should be able to break out of it by tapping on the touchpad in the same app that you started in.03:25
lifelessRAOF: nup03:25
micahgRAOF: so, can you do that or is that someone else03:25
RAOFI think this has actually been turned off in today's synaptics upload, too, so a simple update + server restart might fix it for you :)03:25
lifelessRAOF: I find that the only reliable way is ctrl-alt-shift right, ctrl-alt left, alt-tab, click03:25
RAOFmicahg: I'll forward it to Alberto.03:25
jbichalifeless: my touchpad problem gets reset magically if I don't touch it for like 5 seconds03:27
lifelessjbicha: I'll try that next time03:27
strycoreyes, it seems to have been removed, I can't do it anymore (which is a good thing)03:27
lifelessjbicha: that worked!03:31
lifelessso, \o/03:31
lifeless(guess you hadn't ever waited -at all- while trying to fix it03:31
lifelessTheMuso: 'grrrrrrr' ?03:31
TheMusolifeless: The hud is still getting in my way, as well as the change of the workspace switcher keyboard shortcuts.03:32
TheMusoLooks like I have to take time out and find the settings to restore sanity.03:32
lifelessTheMuso: man icepick? :)03:32
jbichalifeless: it is a bit bizarre for a workaround03:34
pittiGood morning05:56
robert_ancellpitti, hey, how much dbus/gdbus do you know?  Can you think of anything that may cause https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670722?06:49
ubot2`Gnome bug 670722 in gdbus "Using gdbus to make a call, then forking and doing the same in the child process fails" [Normal,Unconfirmed]06:49
pittirobert_ancell: not at that level, I'm afraid :/06:50
pittirobert_ancell: does fork() close the FDs properly? perhaps the dbus one stays open or so}06:51
robert_ancellpitti, yeah, I'm thinking similar things, but I don't know a good way to debug it06:51
pittirobert_ancell: does it work with clone() if you don't inherit FDs?06:52
pittirobert_ancell: you could run it through strace -fvvs1024 -o /tmp/trace to find out whether the child process does a similar action to the bus than the parent one06:52
pittirobert_ancell: so it works if you swap the make_call() and fork()?06:53
robert_ancellpitti, i.e. do the make_call after the fork?  yes06:53
pittiif so, then concurrency doesn't sound like the problem, but some global state that the gdbus call sets up06:53
robert_ancellyes, I also tried making the dbus connection using the bus address separately as it is a singleton, but no luck there06:53
robert_ancellI'll try clone06:54
broderrobert_ancell: what happens if you g_dbus_connection_close_sync in the child, then do g_bus_get_sync?06:56
broder(and does that screw up the parent's connection?)06:56
robert_ancellbroder, do a get/close/get?06:57
broderrobert_ancell: yeah06:57
robert_ancellbroder, yeah, that closes it for the parent06:59
didrocksgood morning06:59
robert_ancellmust be shared07:00
RAOFHey didrocks!07:00
didrocksRAOF: how are you? :)07:00
RAOFI'm wiring up the autofoo for some tests.07:00
RAOFYou can therefore probably guess ;)07:01
didrocksRAOF: ahah, come on, it's Friday evening for you, you don't have to make such pain to yourself :)07:02
pittichrisccoulson: FYI, moving https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-thunderbird-enhancements to Q07:03
pittibonjour didrocks07:04
pittididrocks: I moved https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-one-conf to Q; it's not realistic any more for b1 IMHO07:05
* pitti hugs didrocks07:05
didrocksguten morgen pitti07:05
didrockspitti: hum, I already postponed what I can postpone, IIRC, there was just a "discuss with…" remaining for me, isn't it?07:05
pittididrocks: and lots of blocked items, too07:06
didrockspitti: right, on other teams :/07:06
pittididrocks: well, it doesn't mean that you are forbidden to discuss that point now :)07:06
didrockspitti: I'm thinking that as OneConf doesn't really get any traction, I'll maybe propose removing it next cycle07:06
pittibut I'll stop harassing you about the BP's progress, and we can better focus on the stuff that we need to get done for precise07:06
didrocksyeah :)07:06
pittididrocks, RAOF: "drop check-gl-texture-size from gnome-session startup and add the new compiz plugin for it on upgrade"07:07
pittido we still have this? ISTR that a newer compiz should make this unnecessary?07:07
didrockspitti: so, it's complicated and I need dx and RAOF discussing together I guess07:08
didrockspitti: some part of dx tells "it just need a new plugin to activate on upgrade"07:08
didrocksother part is telling "that won't fix anything"07:08
RAOFThat part of DX is lying.07:08
didrocksso I need to put them in a room, and discussing :)07:08
didrocksRAOF: which one? ;)07:08
RAOFThe "just enable copy_to_texture" side.07:09
didrocksah, so yeah, the 1st one :)07:09
RAOFBecause Unity is all about FBOs, and they're not covered by copy to texture.07:09
didrocksthat's why, I need to have a clear answer, I dont want to enable a new plugin for anything  :p07:09
RAOFSo *compiz* will work if we enable copy to texture, but *unity* won't.07:09
pittiwell, it seems unity boot speed is a lost cause anyway07:09
RAOFAlso known as: not very useful for us!07:09
didrockspitti: I'm trying to get some data, should have them next week07:10
didrockspitti: I wanted for the new compiz to land07:10
didrocksRAOF: agreed07:10
pittiRAOF: libraw/dcraw conversion to lcms2, is that still realistic? (bug 885324)07:10
ubot2`Launchpad bug 885324 in libkdcraw "Completely replace lcms1 by lcms2 in Ubuntu" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88532407:10
didrocksRAOF: so, we need, you, jay, sam and david discussing, do you want a meeting?07:11
didrocksRAOF: or I can set up a mail thread07:11
pittiRAOF: err, libraw is done, I mean dcraw07:11
pittiRAOF: ... which is in universe and thus not very interesting, nevermind07:11
didrockspitti: just to sum up, basically, as the new plugin won't fix anything, we will still need the check-gl-texture-size script07:12
pittididrocks: ok; so I guess this should be BLOCKED?07:12
didrockspitti: yeah, that would make sense07:12
didrocksRAOF: oh, thinking about it, check-gl-texture-size can be run as part of the nux checker? (and thus, be run in lightdm if no autologin)07:13
didrocksto fallback to unity-2d07:13
RAOFdidrocks: No, that doesn't work, because lightdm is not necessarily running at the same resolution as the user's session.07:15
RAOFIndeed, in the cases where check-gl-texture-size applies, it almost certainly *isn't* running at the same resolution, because we default to clone for lightdm.07:16
didrocksRAOF: you're right, ok, we can't win some time here :(07:17
pittiSweetshark: I sorted out most of the new LibO promotions this morning, but some libs need work07:24
pittiSweetshark: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg is a rather interesting graph to look at right now :)07:24
pittiSweetshark: can you work on libexttextcat (drop automake1.7) and libloader (drop the recommends) today?07:24
pittiSweetshark: libjcommon-java is in main now, it's just due to a germinate problem that it's still shown there, so nevermind that one07:25
didrockswaow, not so much cry on the keybings change for switching ws on bug reports, good surprise :)07:39
rickspencer3hey pitti looks like the armhf archive is getting a bit cleaned up, nice!07:40
pittiSweetshark: oh, and we need a libapache-poi-java MIR07:41
pittirickspencer3: heh, indeed! from 801 yesterday to about 10 today is much progress :)07:42
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
tkamppeterpitti, hi08:21
pittihello tkamppeter08:23
tkamppeterpitti, you have answered to some cups-update-error bugs ands CUPS crashed. It is due to bug 911436.08:25
ubot2`Launchpad bug 911436 in p11-kit "https crashed with SIGSEGV in lookup_or_create_bucket()" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/91143608:25
pittitkamppeter: oh, I see; thanks! can you please duplicate it then?08:25
tkamppeterpitti, most of these duplicates are CUPS crashers.08:26
tkamppeterpitti, will do. I hope that this bug will get fixed in Precise. I get around 5 new bug reports a day due to this bug.08:29
tkamppeterpitti, there seems also to be a problem with Apport. If the maintainer scripts of a package cause something to crash, there is only a package bug report, no crash bug report with the backtrace.08:30
pittitkamppeter: I think there's _also_ a crash report08:30
tkamppeterpitti, then users see only the package failure and ignore the crash report.08:31
pittitkamppeter: no, but due to our client-side duplicate detection they won't be reported again08:31
tkamppeterpitti, I get only the package failure bug reports.08:31
tkamppeterpitti, so the crash reports are caught by bug 911436? This bug has 156 me-too's. Are they generated by tghe crash reports it caught?08:33
ubot2`Launchpad bug 911436 in p11-kit "https crashed with SIGSEGV in lookup_or_create_bucket()" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/91143608:33
pittitkamppeter: ideally they'd be caught client-side, but some duplicates still get through08:35
pittimoin Sweetshark!08:38
tkamppeterpitti, only these package bugs do not get caught. Is there no automatic duplicate detection for package bugs?08:39
pittitkamppeter: no, unfortunately not; it's not that easy to automatically pick up the real error from the apt output08:40
pittie. g. bluez-cups failed, but that was due to cups, and that was due to the crash08:40
micahgif there is a pattern, you can write a bug pattern for it08:40
pittiwe have a lot of causes like that; it usually needs some human brain to untangle08:40
pittiSweetshark: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg is updated now, but for some reason it's still missing the libapache-poi-java package08:42
pittiperhaps it gets confused due to having such a large graph08:42
pittiSweetshark: so I'd suggest to fix libloader first to build without all the maven/universe stuff, then it should clear up quite a bit08:43
* Sweetshark gets lots in the forest.08:43
pittiSweetshark: just look at libloader and libreoffice08:44
pittiSweetshark: probably best if you download the source, and run check-mir; it'll tell you the missing b-deps08:44
tkamppeterpitti, so make them fixing bug 911436.08:47
ubot2`Launchpad bug 911436 in p11-kit "https crashed with SIGSEGV in lookup_or_create_bucket()" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/91143608:47
rickspencer3dang, my workspace switching keybinding are gone?08:55
didrocksrickspencer3: it's now Super + Shift + arrows08:55
pittididrocks: you knew this was coming :)08:56
rickspencer3ok, so that seems unnecessary08:56
didrockspitti: oh yeah, I think the whole day will be to answer people not reading my detailed changlog :)08:56
rickspencer3didrocks, well, in my defense, it seems like a bug08:56
pittididrocks: better keep the link ready for constant pasting :)08:56
didrocksrickspencer3: press SUPER and keep it pressed, it should tell you the shortcuts :)08:57
rickspencer3I'm not going to ask what inspired such an improvement08:57
didrocksand https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1jqeKtIJwqLtl58Wk_fqjr9Rrgxn9zsouCYOo-cZsLSE/edit08:57
pittialso, super+shift+something else requires higher piano skills in your hands on my keyboard08:57
rickspencer3didrocks, well, I am on a netbook08:57
didrocksrickspencer3: ahah, yeah, with the design decision to not show it on netbook :)08:57
didrockspitti: yeah, it's been 3 days here and I'm still not get used to it08:58
didrockspitti: and I play church organ for 10 years, so I guess my fingers are agile :)08:58
didrockshad played*08:58
chrisccoulsongood morning desktop team09:01
didrockspitti: on the bright side, I find that super + arrows to maximize/restore/half maximized left or right is nice09:01
didrockshey chrisccoulson09:02
chrisccoulsonhi didrocks, how are you?09:02
didrockschrisccoulson: I'm fine, thanks!09:02
chrisccoulsonyay, https://hg.mozilla.org/integration/mozilla-inbound/rev/62c8bf0d48bb \o/09:02
chrisccoulsonnice little power saving in thunderbird09:03
didrockschrisccoulson: great! :)09:03
didrockschrisccoulson: btw, are you going to remove indexing by default on emails?09:03
didrockschrisccoulson: it made my life way better09:03
pittihey chrisccoulson09:03
didrockson both netbook and laptop09:03
chrisccoulsondidrocks, no, that's a fairly core feature of thunderbird. how come?09:03
chrisccoulsonthings like conversations depend on that ;)09:04
chrisccoulsonhi pitti09:04
didrockschrisccoulson: argh :p09:06
didrockschrisccoulson: ok, that would be nice if it doesn't make my laptop dying then ;)09:06
Sweetsharkdidrocks: hey, wheres my workspace switch?09:09
Sweetsharkdidrocks: j/k09:09
* didrocks starts making a weechat keybinding for a generic answer :p09:10
didrockshey Sweetshark, how are you?09:11
Sweetsharkhmmm, interesting the UDS sponsoring page seems to be deadset on DDoSing itself on openid-login.09:12
Sweetsharkdidrocks: mostly fine, a bit scared of the MIR fallout.09:13
didrocksSweetshark: confirming here09:13
chrisccoulsondidrocks, do you know why the switch-workspace shortcuts were changed btw?09:16
chrisccoulsoni had to change them back last night ;)09:16
chrisccoulsonoh, i see you've already discussed that this morning09:17
* didrocks will take some caffein free tea, will be a longgggggggggg day :)09:20
chrisccoulsondidrocks, that's probably my most used keybinding, and super+shift are too close together for me to use comfortably09:20
chrisccoulsonin addition to shift not being on the bottom edge of the keyboard.......09:20
didrockschrisccoulson: it's the last day I try to get accustomed to it, if after 3 days, I can't, I'll as well change in g-c-c (that perfectly work for all keybindings now \o/)09:20
didrockschrisccoulson: the design idea is to use "Super" as a pivot between Shift and Alt09:20
didrockschrisccoulson: I don't buy it…09:21
chrisccoulsondidrocks, oh, i changed it back after 30 minutes09:21
didrockschrisccoulson: yeah, seems I like pain :)09:21
chrisccoulsonyeah, i don't buy it either. i think that shift + super is probably the worse possible modifier combination09:21
chrisccoulsoni'm not sure if that's true on all layouts09:21
didrockschrisccoulson: I think the layout is mostly the same for those keys independent of the keyboard09:22
chrisccoulsonctrl+shift would even have been better. at least those are on the same edge :)09:22
pittifor me ctrl+alt are next to each other; super and shift are both far away from ctrl/alt09:22
pittibut I realize I'm a special case here09:22
pittibut I still question the value of breaking keybindings which went into people's muscle memory for years09:22
chrisccoulsonpitti - yeah, super+shift are diagonal to each other here, and spaced too close for me to hit comfortably09:23
chrisccoulsonperhaps that is just a muscle memory issue though09:23
chrisccoulsonbut not being on the same edge kinda sucks09:23
pittiin the end I really want vim keys, I guess09:24
pitti"g4" to go to desktop #4, or "gk" to go up09:24
pittithere will always be people for which three-key chords are uncomfortable or impossible to use09:25
chrisccoulsonyeah, i guess so09:25
pittiand unfortunately the ws switcher in the launcher is rather useless09:26
chrisccoulsonyeah, it is. which is why this combination is probably the one i use the most :)09:26
pittiit should just switch desktops when you click on the one you want, not just zoom out09:26
didrockspitti: and it's work in progress, soon, it will be 4 clicks to switch between ws09:28
pittididrocks: you are kidding, right?09:28
didrocks(it's the initial plan from the beginning, just never was implemented)09:28
didrockspitti: oh, I'm not09:28
pittiso after adding useless stuff to the launcher, breaking FFM, breaking the launcher's hiding behaviour, breaking people's muscle memory and already breaking WS switching with the mouse enough this will be the next big thigng?09:29
pittiDesign team, pretty please stop the madness!09:29
chrisccoulson+1000 :-)09:29
chrisccoulsondidrocks, even with the WS switcher today, it is 3 clicks to change workspaces. how do they plan to add another click in there?09:31
didrockschrisccoulson: the first view will be a zoom out of the current ws with all the windows on it exposed09:31
pittiplus a two second pause for the launcher to reveal, plus moving your mouse to the other screen end to select the area09:31
didrocksthen, you click behind to have the actual view09:31
pittichrisccoulson, didrocks: also, I have to double-click to select the ws; single-click does nothing but flash a bit09:32
didrockspitti: you mean, in ws view mode?09:32
didrockspitti: that only "select" the ws09:32
didrockswhich is useless09:32
didrocksbut wanted for now09:32
pittiwell, it's already useless, it doesn't matter09:32
pittiit should just switch right when I click in the launcher09:33
pittias GNOME and every other desktop does09:33
didrockspitti: I can't say anything else that it was discussed for hours?09:33
pittiI have the feeling they are trying really hard to make people stop using multiple ws because they hate it09:33
pittididrocks: I'd rant to JohnLea, but he's not online09:33
* pitti hugs didrocks, sorry09:33
* chrisccoulson hugs didrocks too09:34
* didrocks hugs pitti and chrisccoulson too :)09:34
didrockspitti: on ws, let me show you a bug, one sec09:34
didrockspitti: ^09:35
ubot2`Launchpad bug 868423 in ayatana-design "Launcher - Workspace switcher should not be in the Launcher by default" [Critical,Fix committed]09:35
* pitti sighs09:35
didrockssee the comments, I try to push that back hard09:35
didrockssalut seb128, ça va? :)09:37
seb128sorry Im late today09:37
seb128didrocks, lut ca va09:38
seb128with an english keyboard layout09:38
seb128trying to figure why09:38
didrocksjust to be clear: IT'S NOT RELATED TO NEW COMPIZ KEYBINDINGS /!\09:38
seb128wtf? well setxkbmap fixed it, the indicator wouldn't work09:39
seb128didrocks, your new keybinding as well, wtf09:39
seb128the "go to ws <n>" I set are not working today09:39
didrocksseb128: :p09:39
chrisccoulsonwe've just been talking about those ;)09:39
didrocksseb128: hum?09:39
seb128those are not in the default set and should be let alone09:39
didrocksseb128: that shouldn't have set09:39
didrocksseb128: I didn't change any of them, you didn't --reset?09:39
seb128I might have --reset one day since I've my account09:40
seb128but not today09:40
seb128they are still listed in g-c-c they just don't work09:40
ubot2`Launchpad bug 868423 in ayatana-design "Launcher - Workspace switcher should not be in the Launcher by default" [Critical,Fix committed]09:41
didrocksseb128: on the machine I tried for the upgrade, they are still here and working09:41
pittihey seb12809:41
didrocksseb128: what keybinding are you using?09:41
seb128didrocks, alt-& alt-é alt-"09:41
seb128didrocks, i.e alt and the number on the french keyboard09:41
seb128pitti, hey pitti09:42
didrocksseb128: working here09:42
didrocksalt-& alt-é alt-"09:42
seb128if I press alt in the keybinding editor it sends me to the next workspace09:42
didrocksseb128: can't it be related to your keyboard issue?09:42
seb128like I edit and want to type alt-& when I press alt I'm changed ws09:42
seb128didrocks, I fixed my keymap, could be, but I restarted my session like 5 times to make sure I didn't hit a race or anything before starting IRC because those were not working09:43
seb128well if that's only me don't bother for now, I will figure it out09:43
pittididrocks: how much effort would it be to distro-patch the ws switcher keybindings back to ctrl+alt?09:43
didrocksseb128: hum, weird, you should have another keybinding conflict maybe?09:44
seb128I'm puzzled that pressing alt when in edit mode send me to ws2 though09:44
didrockspitti: well, not a lot, updating metacity and compiz, uploading a new unity but I would rather that we discuss with design first09:44
pittididrocks: just OOI; it's not just a schema change in metacity?09:44
didrocksseb128: yeah, didn't see any other report about it until now09:44
seb128but the edit is still active since if I keep alt and press & it displays me a warning that the keybinding is already assigned to go to ws109:44
didrockspitti: no, we need to change that in metacity and compiz, otherwise, compiz is puzzled, can't match the right keys09:45
didrockspitti: and unity has some hardcoded values…09:45
pittididrocks: so if I change them in g-c-c, it writes the values to metacity's AND unity's settings?09:45
didrockspitti: metacity and compiz, yeah09:46
didrockspitti: but if you press super09:46
didrocksyou will still see "Super + Shift + arrows"09:46
didrocksbecause it's hardcoded09:46
* didrocks opened a bug about it09:46
didrocksseb128: tried on my second machine I did the update, don't have the issue as well :/09:46
didrockspitti: I would say, we can keep it for beta1, ask people to comment on a bug report about this issue09:47
didrockspitti: and see how much feedback we get09:47
seb128didrocks, it's the most bizarre thing ever, this alt in the keybinding editor changing ws09:47
seb128didrocks, pitti: what's the issue with ctrl-alt? what does ctrl-alt do?09:47
didrocksseb128: we are discussing about the keybinding switching ws change09:48
didrocksso it's rather "what it doesn't do anymore" :)09:48
pittiseb128: ctrl+alt+cursor I mean09:48
pittiseb128: instead of pointlessly breaking years old muscle memory for everyoen09:48
seb128you want to revert it? why?09:49
Sweetsharkrickspencer3: please, please do! ;P09:49
pittididrocks: yes, agreed09:49
pittiseb128: you seriously like this?09:49
Sweetsharkrickspencer3: ups. I was way back in the backlog.09:49
seb128pitti, I don't care much, I don't agree on "we can't change behaviour or default because of muscle memory from old geek users"09:49
seb128I don't like that configs change on upgrade though09:49
seb128pitti, it's only a config, it's easy to tweak09:50
pittikeybindings are not geek09:50
seb128it's like the default launcher hidding or not09:50
pittiseb128: there is no other way to change keybindings09:50
pittiat least no sensible one09:50
pittiseb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/868423/comments/13  IMNSHO09:50
ubot2`Launchpad bug 868423 in ayatana-design "Launcher - Workspace switcher should not be in the Launcher by default" [Critical,Fix committed]09:50
seb128pitti, well I've just no strong opinion, I think it's reasonable to be able to do changes like that if we think the new default are better09:50
seb128it's not like it was hard to put it back to the old values09:51
seb128we somewhat have too much resistance to change imho (which is normal, not discussing that)09:51
chrisccoulsonseb128, the issue is that the new values aren't really any better, at least not on my keyboard :(09:51
chrisccoulsonctrl+alt are on the same edge and spaced a sensible distance apart09:52
chrisccoulsonsuper+shift are diagonal to each other, too close together and not on the same edge09:52
chrisccoulsonit's more difficult to hit them ;)09:52
seb128on the other side I didn't understand the point of that specific change09:52
seb128chrisccoulson, right, agreed on that09:52
seb128but cf the discussion about the launcher being hidden or not the other day09:52
seb128I think we are quite resistant to any behaviour or default change ;-)09:53
seb128I tend to agree that the keybinding change is stupid though09:53
seb128I though they wanted to do super-arrows09:53
seb128i.e without shift09:53
didrocksno super + arrows are used to maximize/restore/semi maximize left or right09:53
rickspencer3Sweetshark, pitti, seb128 that email from nick about adding application tests was interesting09:56
seb128didrocks, ok, I got my keys working back, unity was in a f*** state09:56
* rickspencer3 tries to change subject09:56
seb128didrocks, alt-f2 was not working either, it was opening and closing the dash09:56
seb128unity --reset fixed it all09:56
didrocksseb128: weird weird weird09:56
seb128rickspencer3, where is that email?09:56
didrocksseb128: you probably got some conflict on upgrading yeah09:56
seb128rickspencer3, oh, desktop list, reading09:57
seb128rickspencer3, sorry I was late today and then fighting compiz :p09:57
chrisccoulsonpitti, i didn't get around to uploading tbird without the hyphenation patterns last night, as i hit an upgrade bug with the new version (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=730072) :(09:57
ubot2`Mozilla bug 730072 in Toolbars and Tabs "Quick Filter Toggle is gone (or doesn't move from tabbar toolbar) on upgrade to TB 11 with Enigmail and/or Lightning installed" [Normal,New: ]09:57
seb128rickspencer3, yeah, I'm unsure about that, I helped didrocks once to review a bit of the unity-checkbox testing and it rather convinced me it was a non working approch09:58
rickspencer3seb128, that's a bit harsh09:59
rickspencer3I think they got lots of good results09:59
seb128rickspencer3, sorry but I was about to say what, and that's my personal view, no offense to the work from others09:59
rickspencer3I think we should have a set of nice manual tests so people can ensure that applications are working properly09:59
pittichrisccoulson: I discussed with skaet, pre-approved for landing this today still10:00
seb128I spent like 1.5 hour to read 15% of a 1500 lines of feedback were 90% was "noise", ie random comment or known issue, or same stuff said several times in different way10:00
pittichrisccoulson: as we really need the space10:00
chrisccoulsonpitti - cool, thanks10:00
seb128rickspencer3, it's very long and tedious work and I didn't feel the feedback I got from it was bringing infos over the bug reports we have10:00
seb128rickspencer3, and I find parsing coming bug email and looking at bug list easier than spending 5 hours reviewing the checkbox tests10:01
rickspencer3seb128, it shouldn't take 5 hours10:01
seb128rickspencer3, but maybe have 1 person having to read 1500 lines of checkbox tests is not the way to go10:01
rickspencer3that's not because of checkbox if it does10:01
didrocksthat's true that reading comments is tedious10:01
seb128rickspencer3, oh, I didn't say it was "because of checkbox"10:01
seb128rickspencer3, I just find the launchpad bugs providing the infos I need in an easier to digest way10:02
didrocksok, so it seems people are just complaining, requiring things, but don't offer any solution…10:03
pittiyay http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/precise_probs.html10:03
seb128rickspencer3, but by all mean don't take it as an issue with checkbox, it's first not one, and second I say I'm not fit to deal with hours or comments reading, it just doesn't work with me10:03
seb128but I'm sure it's very useful for others10:03
Sweetsharkrickspencer3: hmm, indeed. forwarding to libreoffice-qa!10:05
Sweetsharkpitti: voikko is in the works in debian (so should only be a sync), report-builder is in ubuntu3.10:14
Sweetsharkpitti: libexttextcat build fine with automake instead of automake1.7. Indeed that is how we build it inside of LibreOffice, Iguess.10:16
pittiSweetshark: I uplaoded ubuntu3 yesterday, but it needs those package fixes10:17
pittididrocks: hm, alt+f5 stopped working, was that changed as well?10:17
pitti(to un-maximize a window))10:17
didrockspitti: for restoring?10:17
didrockspitti: yeah, it's Super + Down10:17
pittialt+f10 still works10:17
pittioh c'mon10:17
pittithis is ridiculous10:17
pittithis is ridiculous10:18
pittisuper+down for unmaximizing, alt+f10 for maximizing?10:18
didrockspitti: alt + f10 shouldn't work as well10:18
didrockspitti: but you probably change a keybinding here as well10:18
pittiwell, alt+f10 is the default10:18
pittior had been10:18
didrocksalt + f10 shows the first menu10:18
* pitti restores10:19
didrocksand Super + up maximize10:19
pittididrocks: hm, I checked guest session -- alt+f10 doesn't do anything, F10 still opens the menu10:21
pittibut if that change is made, I'll applaud10:21
pittias F10 is used in quite a few programs10:21
didrockspitti: oh sorry, I committed the alt + f10 change to unity trunk10:21
didrockspitti: didn't backport it10:21
pittididrocks: ah, ok; so not a bug there10:22
pittididrocks: thanks for checking10:22
* didrocks is starting to get lost with all those changes in different components :)10:22
pittinot only you, I tell ya10:22
=== om26er_ is now known as om26er
seb128pitti, do you r-t this time? i.e can I ask you question about thing I want to get in beta or should I ask Riddell or #ubuntu-release rather?10:30
pittiseb128: approvals can be done by any RT member; Riddell is driving beta-110:31
seb128pitti, I'm pondering trying to get a gtk2 without the resize grip in today (i.e turning the api to a nop)10:31
seb128it was an ubuntu patch from the start, gtk2 app writter didn't consider it since it was not in gtk2 and it breaks some stuff like libreoffice10:32
pittiseb128: sounds ok to me10:32
seb128design decided to drop those grips from our theme this cycle for gtk3 and asked that we drop them from gtk2 as well10:32
seb128pitti, ok, good, thanks10:32
pittiseb128: oh, no more grips in GTK3 apps either?10:32
pittiback to "find the one pixel to resize your window"?10:32
didrockson unity-2d, I guess, unity-3d as compiz handling invisible border10:34
seb128pitti, compiz has those "invisble borders" as didrocks says10:34
seb128pitti, you can grab like on 5 pixels from the border10:34
seb128you don't need to aim on the line10:35
pittibut in unity-2d?10:35
seb128pitti, well sabdfl told me to drop those, I'm doing it10:35
seb128it's redudant in 3d10:35
seb128I guess 2d will have to get invisible borders or something as well10:35
seb128I guess the focus is 3d10:35
seb128pitti, in gtk3 they are set on or off by the theming10:36
seb128pitti, so it might be possible to hack the theme for 2d10:36
seb128pitti, I'm just glad we can get ride of i.e bug #74998610:38
ubot2`Launchpad bug 749986 in gtk+2.0 "Resizing LO window from bottom right brings up pop-up and undesirable effects" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/74998610:38
seb128pitti, it's a most hated bugs, libreoffice does weird stuff for rendering and doesn't like the gtk2 grip patch at all10:39
pittiseb128: yes, I'm not too worried about the few gtk2 programs10:39
pittimore about unity-2d and most gtk3 programs10:40
seb128pitti, well, for gtk3 it's a theme thing, so let's deal with it when design comes with an uife for the theme update ;-)10:41
Sweetsharkpitti: meh, the lucene stuff is ugly. It seems to me like LO only does a partial build of lucene (it run contrib/analyzers/build.xml, not the main one). In theory, one could do the same withour package, in practice, that would likely each and every client of it. not an option. MIRing all the other stuff too: possible, but doesnt get me excited exactly (java is a dep-nightmare, and I dont know what that would even pull in then). So, I am inc11:13
Sweetsharks/likely/likely break/11:13
pittiSweetshark: no, MIRing all the maven stuff is a no-go11:13
pittiSweetshark: your text was cut off after "So, I am inc"11:14
pitti.. lined to ...?11:14
Sweetsharkinclinded to forget the lucene MIR and just use LibreOffices own partial copy.11:14
pittisounds fine11:14
pittiSweetshark: is libloader fixable, or should we revert to the internal copy for that, too?11:15
pittithe recommends can ceratinly be dropped to suggests, but the build-deps would be harder11:15
Sweetsharkso I dont see we can easyly drop ehcache. but maybe we can get ehcache to not pull in maven.11:22
* Sweetshark has a look further down the chain.11:23
Sweetsharkmeh. ehcache hasnt been in main since hardy. not looking good.11:24
pittino, earlier versions didn't need it11:24
pittironoc: hey Conor, how are you?11:24
pittironoc: in the sound indicator I only have a non-spinning spinner between the fwd/rev buttons; clicking it brings RB to the foreground11:25
pittironoc: in the past I could use that button to pause/resume play11:25
pittironoc: is that by design or a bug?11:25
Sweetsharkpitti: but without it, there is no reportbuilder. also not good.11:25
pittironoc: for bringing RB into the foreground I could click on the "rhythmbox" menu entry11:25
ronocpitti, all good - have you rhythmbox plugins installed ?11:25
pittironoc: yes, I have11:25
ronocpitti, i.e. is rhythmbox on dbus11:26
ronocis the mpris interface up ?11:26
pittioh, the plugin was disabled11:26
ronoci noticed the same thing two days ago11:26
ronocthis is need by default otherwise the indicator cannot drive the player11:26
pittironoc: many thanks, that was it11:26
ronocover dbus11:26
* Sweetshark wonders if it is an option to not build reportbuilder in main and do a build with it in a ppa. It would be a pragmatic solution to this mess.11:27
SweetsharkIt still would mean, dropping reportbuilder from the libreoffice metapackage.11:27
pittiand fix the transitional openoffice.org-reportbuilder one11:39
pittibut yes, it's a possible fallback11:39
* pitti lunch &11:40
ryecan somebody check on their laptop - when decreasing brightness in "Brightness and Lock" control panel module, at 20% brightness is minimal and when going further down it is increasing instead12:07
ryecan't take a video of that because the camera is too smart to compensate for brightness change :-/12:07
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
ryenm thinkpad_acpi calculates something incorrectly12:41
seb128box frozen on xrandr changes12:49
seb128then keybings all fucked up again12:49
desrtx has been a pretty bumpy ride lately12:49
seb128didrocks, I had to unity --reset, after restart alt was switching to ws2 again12:49
desrtseb128: are those keybinding changes intentional?12:49
seb128desrt, yes12:50
seb128desrt, design decision about the default keybindings, but there is no sane way to preserve your config if it's the stock one on update12:50
desrtdidn't we have some talk recently at a UDS about how pointlessly changing things each release is hurting our users?12:50
desrti say this because i'm one of our users...12:51
seb128desrt, well those didn't change each release, they were never reviewed or defined by design12:51
desrti don't have a particular affection for one keystroke over another12:51
desrtbut i'd prefer it wasn't changing all the time12:51
seb128desrt, we just inherited stuff make 15 years ago12:51
desrtseb128: s/by design/by canonical design/12:51
desrtthe result is still the same, from a user perspective: something that used to work isn't working anymore (plus, no obvious way to discover what happened)12:53
seb128desrt, yeah, but you can use that argument to stay put for ever and avoid any change12:55
seb128desrt, though I tend to agree the keybindings changes is pointless12:55
desrtseb128: i only apply the argument to trivial changes that are undiscoverable12:55
desrtwell, that's not true12:56
desrti also apply it in our default app selection discussion12:56
desrtbut only as one factor out of many12:56
seb128desrt, the keymaps summary you get on super is not that undiscoverable12:56
didrocksseb128: that's really weird, not sure what happens TBH12:56
seb128desrt, but then you hit "users don't read"12:56
desrtseb128: talk to shaunm about that :)12:56
seb128desrt, yeah, cf what I just wrote as well :p12:57
desrtthe good news is that the gnome documentation team seems to be switching from writing user docs (that we have a lot of and nobody reads) to developer docs (that we desperately need)12:57
m4n1shdidrocks: ping. Reply when you got time13:17
didrocksm4n1sh: replying to what? :)13:19
m4n1shI means when you are free then reply to my ping :)13:20
didrocksm4n1sh: can be done now :)13:20
m4n1shjust wanted to know the freeze process13:20
m4n1shbug fixes? which is the freeze for that?13:20
m4n1shfinal freeze?13:21
didrocksm4n1sh: one sec, again OTP13:21
=== greyback is now known as greyback|lunch
didrocksm4n1sh: yeah? ;)13:29
didrocksso you have different freezes13:29
didrocksyou have release cycle freeze, which are feature freeze and ui freeze13:30
didrocksm4n1sh: to see the definition, it's the link I pasted you yesterday13:30
didrocksm4n1sh: for them, you can request exceptions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess13:31
didrocksm4n1sh: then, we have "freeze" for every goal (like now, precise is frozen for beta1), and we push only fixes that are relevant to push a nice beta113:32
didrocksm4n1sh: does it make sense?13:32
=== Ursinha_ is now known as Guest31670
m4n1shdidrocks: true :)13:32
m4n1shbe my mentor :)13:32
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
pittiI'm off for some errands, back for the release meeting13:38
ogra_didrocks, haha ... just got a mail from alf, apparently he got the patches down to:13:38
ogra_compiz-core: 350 KB13:38
ogra_compiz-plugins-main: 180 KB13:38
ogra_(i discussed it with kate and we agreed that it would only go in after beta)13:39
didrocksogra_: \o/13:40
didrocksogra_: he isn't using taz, isn't it? :p13:40
ogra_ah, i thought its the greek word for a harry potter magic potion :)13:40
didrocksBahah :)13:41
ogra_i dont think he uses any compression there :)13:41
didrocksso, applying the 2 patches on the armel build only, isn't it?13:41
didrocksand they are reponsible for them :)13:41
ogra_well, responsibility is shared ...13:41
didrockshum, how shared?13:42
ogra_i said i'd take the blame for packaging bits13:42
ogra_they are responsible for the code13:42
didrocksyeah, make sense :)13:42
ogra_in any case you shouldnt be bothered13:42
didrocksI think I read something about applying some patch only on some arch with quilt13:42
ogra_(yet ... once it is merged and with the new arm handling poluicy, -desktop will be responsible for all desktop arm bits soon)13:43
didrocksnew arm handling policy?13:44
ogra_you dont read your mails, eh ?13:45
didrockswell, once it's merged upstream no worry :)13:45
ogra_ubuntu-arm is gone ... not existing anymore13:45
s9iper1anybody knows how can i downgrade  back to empathy 3.3.4  from 3.3.5  ?13:45
didrocksogra_: I try to, but with all the ML, I maybe miss that one, which ML?13:45
ogra_platform had a mail from victor13:45
didrockspitti: ah, I didn't get to the platform ML yet :)13:46
didrocksoupss, ogra_ ^13:46
didrockslet me look13:46
ogra_the plan is to treat arm like x86 and amd64 ... no special forces/special cases anymore for it13:46
ogra_which means if you guys pull in a mono app, you have to make sure it runs on arm too13:47
didrocksogra_: ah, got it :)13:47
ogra_(or fix LibO if it doesnt work on arm etc...)13:47
didrocksogra_: well, for "fixing", we will need hw :)13:48
didrocksto run them13:49
pittiubuntu on your phone! *caugh*13:49
ogra_yeah, so your manager should give you pandaboards :)13:49
* pitti really off now, bbl13:49
didrocksogra_: but ok, got it, but for the patch, as long as it's not merged upstream, the responsability are defined? :p13:49
ogra_yeah, dont worry13:49
didrocksok ;)13:49
ogra_and even after, feel free to contact me in the foundations team if there are arm issues ;)13:49
ogra_its not like the arm team members vanished from the face of the earth ... we just got spread across all platform teams13:50
ogra_(apart from desktop apparently)13:50
didrocksso we are getting nobody in? weird13:51
ogra_ask your manager :)13:52
=== greyback|lunch is now known as greyback
om26erhey kenvandine14:17
om26erwe have an empathy bug that seems specific to Ubuntu as no one upstream have seen it14:17
kenvandinehey om26er14:17
om26erkenvandine, good morning ;)14:18
om26erbug 81897514:18
ubot2`Launchpad bug 818975 in empathy "Thumbnails for profile pictures appear fullsize in chat window until 'Preferences' opened" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81897514:18
kenvandineoh, that can't be ubuntu specific14:19
om26erits something with dconf maybe14:19
kenvandineit isn't really the thumbnail14:19
kenvandineit isn't loading the theme14:19
kenvandinewe default to an adium theme14:20
kenvandineso i bet we are more likely to hit it14:20
om26erkenvandine, mind commenting on the upstream bug14:20
kenvandineoh, unless it is maybe apparmor14:23
seb128ok, I'm out for some errands as well14:37
ritzquick question, where (src package) does the shutdown menu come from in Unity ?14:55
dobeythe system indicator i would guess14:56
turbotaxanyone here?14:59
ritzturbotax, hi ?15:00
ritzdobey, thanks, indicator-session15:01
dobeyoh yes, session; that one15:03
turbotaxhow u doing people15:03
turbotaxand my fellow brothers15:03
Sweetsharkpitti: the Libreoffice presentation templates we ship by default are really rather outdated and ugly. Whom would I assign a bug to coordinate updating them/making them nifty again?15:15
Sweetsharkwoha! jockey crashed while installing virtualbox display drivers.15:18
pittiSweetshark: hm, add an ayatana-design task perhaps?15:31
turbotaxAnyone here knows about rfi scanner or smtp scanner or ssh root scanner?15:33
kenvandineom26er, i just fixed bug 81897515:43
ubot2`Launchpad bug 818975 in ubuntu-artwork "Thumbnails for profile pictures appear fullsize in chat window until 'Preferences' opened" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81897515:43
om26erkenvandine, was that a bug in the theme?15:44
kenvandineour gsettings override15:44
kenvandinesort of...15:44
kenvandineat some point empathy introduced the need to set theme-variant as well15:45
kenvandinewithout it, it fell back to classic15:45
turbotaxno one understand me here?15:45
kenvandineturbotax, sorry, this is a development channel15:45
kenvandineturbotax, perhaps better to ask in #ubuntu15:46
turbotaxcan anyone tell me where people scanning for rfi shell?15:46
kenvandinepitti, the empathy 3.3.90 upload will take some time, it requires a new package (really a renamed one)15:48
kenvandinefarsight was renamed farstream, new upstream project15:49
kenvandinebut mostly the same code15:50
kenvandineand it requires gnome-contacts15:50
pittikenvandine: ah, can you revert the clutter build dep?15:53
jbichaisn't that only needed for empathy-call?15:53
jbicha*that = clutter15:54
kenvandinepitti, it doesn't add a new build dep15:54
kenvandinenot for clutter15:54
pittikenvandine: I diffed configure, and it looked like it15:54
kenvandinei'll look15:54
kenvandineaccording to the NEWS file it requires the same version it did before15:55
kenvandinepitti, oh they did bump the clutter required version, but it is still lower than what we have in main15:58
pittikenvandine: ah, ok; some part of me thought clutter was in universe15:58
kenvandinenope :)15:58
kenvandineto keep clutter off the CD i split empathy-call into a separate package15:58
kenvandinewhich is the only part that requires it15:59
kenvandinei need to confirm that the old call interface still works if empathy-call isn't installed though :)15:59
kenvandinethe painful change is really the need for a new package :(15:59
kenvandinei packaged it yesterday, i'll upload it today16:00
kenvandineshould be an easy mir, it is basically a rename from the old farsight package16:00
pittikenvandine: that doesn't need a formal mir16:02
pittikenvandine: ah, farsight vs. farstream? yeah, I noticed16:02
dobeymaybe nintendo, ms, or rare sent a c&d letter to them :)16:03
Sweetsharkpitti: filed as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/94040516:04
ubot2`Launchpad bug 940405 in libreoffice "LibreOffice presentation templates could use an update" [Wishlist,New]16:04
Riddellnessita: not yet but I'll keep looking for problems :)16:07
nessitaRiddell: please :)16:07
dobeyis mvo gone already?16:08
Riddellkenvandine: you have an upload in the queue?16:18
=== Ursinha_ is now known as Guest56087
arandSupplying x64 and x128 hicolor-theme icons should be enough to make the unity applauncher look ok right?16:39
arandI was testing redeclipse via a liveCD before and the icon ended up mangled, could this be due to it being a liveCD or am I doing something wrong in packaging?16:40
kenvandineRiddell, ubuntu-artwork16:48
kenvandinefixed a bug setting the default adium theme in empathy16:48
cyphermoxseb128: question about   * debian/patches/lp829673_hide_nm-applet.patch:16:49
cyphermoxI'm seeing this is dropped, does that mean the other changes for the same checkbox in bluetooth and sound will also be dropped?16:49
seb128cyphermox, will -> have been16:50
seb128cyphermox, and yes16:50
Riddellkenvandine: why is it important for beta 1?16:50
seb128cyphermox, sorry for the time wasted adding the option16:50
seb128cyphermox, but I guess the ui was not the most difficult bit16:50
cyphermoxI had basically designed the patch with consistency on that aspect, hence the question :)16:50
cyphermoxseb128: no, it wasn't16:50
seb128cyphermox, design communication mismatches16:51
cyphermoxreally no problem w/r/t dropping, it's a little surprising, but there *is* still the gconf key to deal with that16:51
cyphermoxand I'm clearly not the intended audience for such a feature :)16:51
seb128cyphermox, well I think they decided that on desktop very few users need place in their panels16:52
seb128cyphermox, I guess the option will be useful on other form factors16:52
cyphermoxmakes sense16:52
cyphermoxwhich is what i've been saying all along on the relevant bug report to justify not adding the feature yet :D16:52
cyphermoxon the bright side this will drop by a little the gconf usage in g-c-c16:52
cyphermoxI'll make sure we aggressively transition nm-applet and NM away from any gconf if possible for next cycle, it should be easy enough to do16:53
kenvandineRiddell, it fixes a really annoying regression and it is a simple fix16:54
kenvandineparticularly for the first login experience16:55
seb128cyphermox, oh yeah, you will probably hear about me on that next cycle16:56
seb128cyphermox, the gconf users are shrinking and you are in the remaining set16:56
seb128cyphermox, I will probably do a push to drop it from the CD next cycle16:56
seb128kenvandine, hey16:59
seb128kenvandine, sorry I just remembered that I told you I would look at farsight yesterday and totally forgot that17:00
seb128kenvandine, do you still want me to have a look? where is it again? ;-)17:00
cyphermoxseb128: gconf> should be easy enough; there's only like, 5 or 6 keys in total. That's one of the things I was considering hacking on during UDS17:02
seb128cyphermox, I'm surprised upstream didn't do it yet17:03
cyphermoxseb128: upstream largely moved to gnome-shell for network management now17:04
seb128yeah, makes sense...17:04
kenvandineseb128, lp:~ken-vandine/+junk/farstream17:06
seb128kenvandine, thanks17:06
kenvandineseb128, since the upstream project is really a rename from farsight should i include the old changelog?17:07
pittiLaney, seb128: do we want to seed libproxy1-plugin-gsettings and libproxy1-plugin-networkmanager?17:07
seb128kenvandine, I would keep the packaging just dch and change the name in the changelog for the new upload17:08
seb128pitti, Laney: I've no clue about proxy and libproxy sorry17:08
seb128kenvandine, ^ maybe have an idea17:08
seb128I think gwibber was one of the libproxy users?17:08
kenvandinenot really17:08
kenvandineit is still disabled in gwibber17:09
kenvandinesince it causes nasty crashes17:09
pittididrocks: do you know why unity-2d-launcher unity-2d-places want to go to universe now? (for some days already)17:09
pittididrocks: I think apt-get autoremove also killed it from my system17:09
kenvandinepitti, i think those got renamed to unity-2d-shell17:09
didrockspitti: those are transitional packages17:09
didrocksyeah, unity-2d-shell is the new hot stuff :)17:09
pittididrocks: ah, so we should seed them in precise to keep them in main for upgrades, and drop them in Q17:09
didrockspitti: indeed, can do17:10
seb128pitti, btw I guess that now is too late to get a ffe mir for gnome-contacts and get it on the CD for beta right?17:10
pittiseb128: did that become useful now?17:10
seb128kenvandine, do you aim at landing the new empathy for beta btw? I guess no17:10
seb128pitti, new empathy will depends on it to show contact details17:10
seb128pitti, well "depends", it will pkgkit install it if needed and not there17:10
seb128pitti, it's in GNOME for 2 cycles I guess it's somewhat working, so I didn't play with it much17:11
didrockspitti: I never did that btw for transitional packages, didn't think about the main -> only main upgrade17:12
pittiseb128: I did play with it perhaps two months ago, and back then it didn't do anything the empathy contact list couldn't do as well17:12
kenvandineseb128, doesn't have to be in for beta, but it might be nice to17:12
pittididrocks: I'll sort it out17:12
didrocksso I have more than just that, some zg stuff, and such17:12
didrockspitti: just for my info, what seed should be used?17:12
kenvandinepitti, they removed the duplicate functionality in empathy and rely on gnome-contacts now17:12
* didrocks sees transitional packages in supported17:13
pittididrocks: supported, at the bottom, "Transitional packages"17:14
didrockspitti: yeah, I'm doing that and catching up on others then17:14
didrockslike netbook-launcher17:14
pittididrocks: ah, you want to?17:15
didrockspitti: yeah, I will keep that in my mind that way :)17:15
pittididrocks: I committed the old printer driver package names17:15
pittididrocks: so, all your's now17:15
didrockspitti: thanks :)17:15
pittiI demoted the other bits from http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt17:15
pittiso after that it should be very short17:15
didrocksnetbook-launcher was still on the dvd seed, removing17:16
didrocksat least, learning something this EOW ;) didn't think about main -> keeping only main migration17:16
pittididrocks: thanks, looks good17:22
didrockspitti: thanks for pointing it! :)17:22
pittigood night everyone, have a nice weekend!17:27
didrockshave a good week-end pitti!17:28
dobeywhy is aptdaemon apparently not a) actaully updating the cache, and b) instlaling the packages it was told to install. meh17:34
hallynwould this be the right place to ask for unity quick-launch tips?17:40
Laneykenvandine: even the new version?17:41
kenvandineLaney, yes17:42
Laneypitti: seb128: I don't know how they should get out — I thought maybe as Recommends of those packages, but users should have them, yeah.17:42
Laneyweird. would be good to debug that.17:42
hallyni've got an icon i nlauncher for a script which does 'exec gnome-terminal -x (somecommand)'.  i want unity to bring up that window when i hit alt-N for that icon.17:42
hallynbut it sees it as a gnome-termainl like others17:42
kenvandineLaney, upstream has confirmed the bug and gave up on trying to fix it :/17:42
hallynhm, maybe -t would help me17:43
dobeyhallyn: in the .desktop file for that launcher, add StartupWMClass="yourmagiccommand"17:44
hallyndobey: thanks!17:44
dobeywithout the quotes, and with the unique id17:44
hallynthe command doesn't qhave to be precisely what's in /proc/$$/cmdline does it?17:44
dobeyoh that probably won't work though17:44
dobeysince the window will have the terminal's wmclass17:44
kenvandineLaney, http://code.google.com/p/libproxy/issues/detail?id=14617:45
dobeyi'm not sure there's a way to set the wmclass for the terminal in that way17:45
hallyn(looking ot see if wmctrl can help me)17:46
dobeyhallyn: also, gnome-terminal is a single process application, so you can't really have one terminal be "this app" and another terminal be just a terminal, in that sense17:46
hallynah.  i see.17:46
hallynso maybe i'd have better luck with rxvt17:47
dobeyhallyn: you could, however, write a python script instead, which just embedded a vte widget in a GtkWindow, and ran your app inside it17:47
dobeyhallyn: or just use a different terminal17:47
dobeybut only for that app, as other terminals may have similar issues with single process and wmclass stuff17:47
hallynwmclass yeah, single process, at least i can pick a decent terminal that doesn't do that17:53
* kenvandine decides doing some lucid -> precise upgrade testing could be a fun way to spend the afternoon17:56
hallyn(it's *so* tempting to go the python route.)17:58
rickspencer3Sweetshark, fwiw, LO works for me again :)18:00
chrisccoulsong'ah, i'm out of pepsi max18:02
kenvandinechrisccoulson, time for a stout then :)18:03
m4n1shdidrocks: ping18:04
chrisccoulsonkenvandine, before or after i upload kittyview? ;)18:04
didrocksm4n1sh: yeah?18:04
kenvandineafter, to celebrate :)18:04
m4n1shdidrocks: cando made more changes. https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ilgbFR2iqRE/T0fQJref9YI/AAAAAAAAADs/nb_YRTu3vz4/s949/alm-new.png18:05
m4n1shdo you suggest to apply for UIF exception18:06
m4n1shyou are the master, suggest what should be done18:06
didrocksm4n1sh: yeah, that clearly need an UIFe18:07
didrocksm4n1sh: (and anyway won't be pushed before beta1 as we are in freeze now)18:07
didrocksthat's nice changes btw :)18:07
m4n1shthat's really nice18:07
m4n1shplus a bunch of bugfixes18:07
didrocksyeah, so please apply for an UIFe18:07
m4n1shthanks for the suggestion18:08
didrocksyw ;)18:08
hallyngah!  just updated unity, and ctrl-alt-<leftright> stopped working again18:20
kenvandinehallyn, keybindings changed18:23
kenvandineit is kind of annoying now that the keybindings overlay gets displayed while i switch workspaces18:25
* didrocks waves good evening and good week-end!18:40
hallynyay!  python vte ftw!18:40
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|afk
kenvandinedobey, going to get the old kite out today? :-p19:20
dobeykenvandine: eh?19:23
kenvandine60 mph gusts coming our way19:23
hallyndobey: seriously, thanks - I now have a 40 line python script doing just want i want and can use shortcuts as i want :)19:23
dobeyhallyn: cheers :)19:24
dobeykenvandine: eh19:25
BigWhaleAre there any reasons why I shouldn't use Glade3 and Gkt.Builder with Python?19:25
dobeyi guess i should go to the grocer and get some pizza and beer or something19:26
dobeyas long as i have electricity and internet, it's all good19:26
kenvandinedobey, indeed :)19:33
dobeyi didn't have any surfing plans tonight or anything19:34
dobeyi did just download like 6 games on ps3 though. i'm going to ahve to upgrade the hard drive soon i think19:34
kenvandinetried to do some upgrade testing to make sure empathy and gwibber lucid->precise works20:12
kenvandinebut of course do-release-upgrade can't figure out how to upgrade :/20:13
* kenvandine steps out for a few20:14
dobeykenvandine: uh, did you change the color picker widget in gwibber-acocunts to do some craziness?20:18
dobeyno i guess gtk3 did at some point recently20:18
kenvandinedobey, exactly...20:50
dobeyyeah; it hurtses20:50
kenvandineseb128, did you forget to push you libindicator branch?21:11
seb128kenvandine, who,what,me?21:12
kenvandineyou did...21:12
seb128kenvandine, seems not...what is missing?21:12
kenvandinethe merge proposal doesn't show it being merged21:12
seb128oh, yeah, when I merged it launchpad still didn't have the diff21:13
kenvandinebzr merge lp:~indicator-applet-developers/ubuntu/precise/libindicator/upstream21:13
seb128like I got the email in my inbox in the european morning, 5 hours after the merge request21:13
seb128then 3 hours later there was still no diff21:13
kenvandinelooks like the proposal is from the wrong branch21:13
kenvandineit still doesn't have a diff :)21:13
seb128oh? I blame launchpad21:14
kenvandinetedg's fault :)21:14
kenvandinehe proposed the wrong branch21:14
* kenvandine rejects21:14
seb128did he?21:14
seb128well I merged what was there I think21:14
kenvandineshould have been lp:~indicator-applet-developers/libindicator/upstream21:14
tedgI should just kill the in project branches.21:15
seb128he changed the namespace recently to have those not showing on the upstream project page21:15
seb128I think the vcs was right, that's what I copied in my bzr merge command21:15
kenvandinewell launchpad doesn't seem to like the new namespace21:15
seb128he did on other merges21:15
seb128it got stucked on this one for some reason21:15
* kenvandine marked it as merged21:16
kenvandinei should have known seb128 would never forget to push his branch21:16
kenvandinedisappointing that i couldn't blame tedg either21:17
kenvandinewhat kind of friday afternoon is this!21:17
kenvandineblaming LP is no fun21:17
seb128you can blame to change the namespace21:17
seb128it's almost impossible to see what merge request are waiting21:17
kenvandinethat's true21:18
kenvandinei really wish firefox would tell me which tab is playing a video21:24
kenvandinerestarted browser with ~70 tabs... one of them is playing audio and i can't find it!21:25
brycehkenvandine, now you have two problems21:25
micahgkenvandine: CTRL+SHIFT+E21:25
kenvandinewhat does ctrl-shift-e do?21:25
micahgpanorama FTW :)21:25
kenvandinethat helps!21:26
kenvandinewhew... much better21:26
kenvandinemicahg, thanks!21:27
micahgyou're welcome21:27
micahgkenvandine: could you please have bug 936600 looked at by the right person?21:28
ubot2`Launchpad bug 936600 in libindicate "Please stop versioning the indicate pkg-config files" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/93660021:28
kenvandinemicahg, awesome!  /me assigns to tedg21:30
* micahg hopes that's proper policy though21:30
kenvandineonce per cycle when tedg breaks abi i have to spend a day on fixing all of those21:31
kenvandinehate that21:31
* kenvandine hugs tedg :)21:32
tedgThe problem is that you want people to knowledgably switch between API versions.21:32
tedgIf we've changed the API, we don't want that to "just compile"21:33
kenvandinebut, it is usually just abi changes21:33
dobeyyeah, that versioning isn't for ABI, it's supposed to be for API21:33
kenvandineat least the last couple times21:33
micahgright, that's my question, is it ABI or API changes21:33
dobeyif it's being used only for ABI changes, it's doing it wrong21:33
tedgWe use it for API changes.21:33
tedgNot ABI ones.21:33
kenvandinetedg, the last one was just abi21:33
tedgThen that was a mistake...21:34
tedgI thought we changed one of the params.21:34
tedgBut, whatever.21:34
kenvandineyou told me it was abi only :)21:34
dobeywell, you can just diff the .gir files21:34
kenvandinei thought you were trying to keep the version inline :)21:34
tedgYeah, that isn't a bad thing either, but I don't think it's worth the hassle.21:35
tedgI've started to try and put two defines in my Makefiles for ABI and API version.21:35
tedgJust build stuff off of that.21:35
dobeywell, the libtool verion is what should change when ABI is broken21:36
dobeyand API too, but in a different way21:37
tedgdobey, Correct, but I use the variable at the top of the file to get that.  Just to make it clear and in one place.21:37
dobeyright; anyway, a blunder is a blunder, no matter how it's blundered. :)21:38
desrtRAOF: awake?23:21
* desrt can never figure out this aussie timezone business23:21
=== _thumper_ is now known as thumper
Riddelldesrt: chances are it's saturday whatever the timezone :)23:37
desrtgood call23:40
=== Omega is now known as mightbereptar

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